NationStates Jolt Archive

Hillary Clinton is not far left! Saying so disgraces radicals and revolutionaries everywhere. She is about as completely moderate as you can get. Centrism for the sake of getting elected is not a good thing.

I personally cannot stand Hillary Clinton. She seems to me to be the personification of everything that gets in the way of real social change in America.

Anyway, that's my rant.

Hillary Clinton is not far left! Saying so disgraces radicals and revolutionaries everywhere. She is about as completely moderate as you can get. Centrism for the sake of getting elected is not a good thing.

I personally cannot stand Hillary Clinton. She seems to me to be the personification of everything that gets in the way of real social change in America.

Anyway, that's my rant.

Don't worry about her. She'll never be president.

Hilary Clinton ate my hamster.

If anything, she's right-leaning.

Sure, and Hitler isn't far right. Saying that he is would be an insult to true right-wing revolutionaries everywhere. Get real -- Hillary Clinton is a commie bitch.

Sure, and Hitler isn't far right. Saying that he is would be an insult to true right-wing revolutionaries everywhere. Get real -- Hillary Clinton is a commie bitch.

No, just a bitch. ;)

Sure, and Hitler isn't far right. Saying that he is would be an insult to true right-wing revolutionaries everywhere. Get real -- Hillary Clinton is a commie bitch.

I happen to be a communist, so I would know that she's not far left. Get over the fact that she is a luke-warm centrist demagogue.

I happen to be a communist, so I would know that she's not far left. Get over the fact that she is a luke-warm centrist demagogue.

I would have never guessed Trotskylvania.:eek: It's sad that you even had to say that you're a communist and an indication of the community here. :rolleyes:

Anyhoo, as for Hilary I wish she was a communist... it would be quite fun to see her put the mass millions of fundies through a new "gulag" phase :D "It's the mass murdering, stupid"

I happen to be a communist, so I would know that she's not far left. Get over the fact that she is a luke-warm centrist demagogue.

She is a Liberal Democrat in the American sense of the word. She is also a phony, this is explains her run to the center while she preps for a Presidential run.

She will never be President though and the Democrats would be fools to nominate her. I just saw a poll showing her leading all other contestants but it is still too early to tell.

I would have never guessed Trotskylvania.:eek: It's sad that you even had to say that you're a communist and an indication of the community here. :rolleyes:

Anyhoo, as for Hilary I wish she was a communist... it would be quite fun to see her put the mass millions of fundies through a new "gulag" phase :D

Well, I'm not a Trotskyist, but I'm a part of a group of Helena area libertarian socialists/communists. We love to get together to trash the Leninists. Another thread I posted, where I attacked Leninism, I also had to spell out that I was a socialist. Some overly trigger happy Marxists felt I was stirring up counterrevolutionary sentiment. It's pretty sad.

I was going to call my country "Marxylvania" but that was taken already, so I took the next best thing. I don't like gulags, but might consider the idea depending on how many fundies it can "take care of";)

Well, I'm not a Trotskyist, but I'm a part of a group of Helena area libertarian socialists/communists. We love to get together to trash the Leninists. Another thread I posted, where I attacked Leninism, I also had to spell out that I was a socialist. Some overly trigger happy Marxists felt I was stirring up counterrevolutionary sentiment. It's pretty sad.

I was going to call my country "Marxylvania" but that was taken already, so I took the next best thing. I don't like gulags, but might consider the idea depending on how many fundies it can "take care of"

Forgive my ineptitude but when you say "libertarian", you don't mean it in reference to "Classical Liberal" free market policies and in fact mean social policy don't you? Or do you mean the terms to be such contrasts to illustrate a moderate form of socialism?:confused:

Annnnnddd considering the intelligence of Trotsky and some of his wonderful comments I think his name will reflect more positively than Marx as the concentration of anti-communist negativity is on him (and Engels to a far lesser extent... strangely). :)

Unfortunately, I don't agree with any communist policies so I may be biased in how he is generally perceived by humanity overall. :)

I forgot what I was going to say... Aaaaw man! :(

Love is in the air
Everywhere I look around
Love is in the air
Every sight and every sound

And I don't know if I'm being foolish
Don't know if I'm being wise
But it's something that I must believe in
And it's there when I look in your eyes

Love is in the air
In the whisper of the trees
Love is in the air
In the thunder of the sea

And I don't know if I'm just dreaming
Don't know if I feel sane
But it's something that I must believe in
And it's there when you call out my name

Love is in the air
Love is in the air
Oh oh oh
Oh oh oh

If anything, she's right-leaning.

Teehee, I just saw that... when people say that I always think the politician must have one leg shorter than the other!:D

I forgot what I was going to say... Aaaaw man! :(

It's okay, it saves those few seconds of your life you would have used to (quite bizzarly) explain how Clinton isn't a "commie bitch".;)

It's okay, it saves those few seconds of your life you would have used to (quite bizzarly) explain how Clinton isn't a "commie bitch".;)
Then I'll use those saved seconds to write down that unforgettable line...

"My that's quite a large sig you've got there http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/happy112.gif"

;)

Hillary Clinton is not far left! Saying so disgraces radicals and revolutionaries everywhere. She is about as completely moderate as you can get. Centrism for the sake of getting elected is not a good thing.

I personally cannot stand Hillary Clinton. She seems to me to be the personification of everything that gets in the way of real social change in America.

Anyway, that's my rant.


You and I must be soul mates ;)

She’s considered to be on the left in the US, and as sad as that is, it’s something you have to accept if you want to get along with the average person.

She seems to me to be the personification of everything that gets in the way of real social change in America.
We agree on something, there.

As long as the centrists insist on appeasing the masses, us radicals at either end of the spectrum can't make any headway.

As long as the centrists insist on appeasing the masses, us radicals at either end of the spectrum can't make any headway.

That's shockingly similar to what our political environment has become in the last year here. Since the election of David Cameron as leader of the Conservative Party (conservative as in economies not society) the electorate has only been able to choose from centrist New Labour, centrist Conservatives, and incrasingly centrist Liberal Democrats.:(

When a classically neo-liberal party says that a single payer health system should be retained and increased you know ideology has died in the name of appeasement.:(

Hillary Clinton is not far left!

In America she is. American politics are skewed heavily to the right/classical liberal side, they always have been. She might not be wearing a Mao jacket, but shes still probably in the left 10% of mainstream politicians.

Saying so disgraces radicals and revolutionaries everywhere.

Radicals tend to disgrace themselves. Go to any third party convention and you'll get an idea of what the phrase "Crank Factor" means.

She is about as completely moderate as you can get. Centrism for the sake of getting elected is not a good thing.

She is only moderate if you look at her through the lens of someone on the fringe. Hillary is as far left as Bush the Lesser is right. The word you are looking for is not centerist or moderate but "populist."

Hillary is as far left as Bush the Lesser is right.
Bush is also a centrist.

Why do you thik US elections are so close? Because both candidates are as close to the centre as they can be to maximise winnability.

You can't classify Bush as right wing because he's so fiscally irresponsible, and he meddles in the economy a lot (those steel tariffs were appalling).

Bush is also a centrist.

Why do you thik US elections are so close? Because both candidates are as close to the centre as they can be to maximise winnability.

You can't classify Bush as right wing because he's so fiscally irresponsible, and he meddles in the economy a lot (those steel tariffs were appalling).


Its all about context. Bush is very right wing on a great many issues. He might not be a Goldwater(or even Reagan) Republican, but that doesn't mean he isn't very conservative. My point was that the populism behind Bush and Hillary means that they are almost indistinguishable in practice, the major difference is ideology rather than outcome.

My point was that I find it imprecise to label Hillary or Bush as centerists when what they really are is populists. They both hold fairly radical views that are outside of the center, but the policies tend to sawy whichever way the wind blows. That isn't moderate, its just craven.

I happen to be a communist, so I would know that she's not far left. Get over the fact that she is a luke-warm centrist demagogue.

To you she's a centrist, to a Nazi she's a communist. Get over the fact that you cannot be the one to define the center, and that it's defined in other fashions.

Sure, and Hitler isn't far right. Saying that he is would be an insult to true right-wing revolutionaries everywhere. Get real -- Hillary Clinton is a commie bitch.

Evidence?

Bush is also a centrist.

Why do you thik US elections are so close? Because both candidates are as close to the centre as they can be to maximise winnability.

You can't classify Bush as right wing because he's so fiscally irresponsible, and he meddles in the economy a lot (those steel tariffs were appalling).

Bush was a moderate in Texas as governor, and he ran as a moderate in 2,000. He has been anything but moderate since.

Though I think that Hillary is smart and tough, she's a little to far right for me.
She's republican lite.

Sure, and Hitler isn't far right. Saying that he is would be an insult to true right-wing revolutionaries everywhere. Get real -- Hillary Clinton is a commie bitch.

And you're so far right you make HITLER look like a communist.

Seriously. Hillary =/= communist.

Seriously. Hillary =/= communist.

You're right, she isn't a communist. She is a social democrat with a streak of craen populism and a lack of any real governing ideals. Much, much worse.

It is of my opinion that Hillary is a left winger, but not a far-left winger(there IS a certain degree of ideological extremity, you know), while, in the same vein, Bush is a right winger, but not a far-right winger. A far right-winger is someone like Hitler or Mussolini. A Far-Left winger is someone like Trotsky, Stalin, or Lenin.

If anything, she's right-leaning.
Then she should change her name to Eileen.

If she ever got her problem fixed, she could change it to Noleen.



In Japan, she would be known as Eireen pre-op and Noreen post-op.

She is a Liberal Democrat in the American sense of the word.

No ... Dennis Kucinich and Howard Dean are Liberal Democrats in the American sense of the word.

Hillary Clinton is a Centrist Democrat and isn't even running for President.

You and I must be soul mates ;)

Well, guess its time for a fluffle. :fluffle:

To you she's a centrist, to a Nazi she's a communist. Get over the fact that you cannot be the one to define the center, and that it's defined in other fashions.

Everyone's a member of the International Communist/Jewish conspiracy to a Nazi. Even though Nazism is centrism gone completely mad.

She supports capitalism. There's nothing left-wing about that.

I agree.

DOn't know who this group is, but they've put together the ratings from almost every conceivable special interest group and just listed them here (http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=WNY99268).

Scroll down the list and see for yourself if she's a lefty. Maybe even compare her to people in the Senate who are proud lefties--Tom Harkin, Barbara Boxer, Ron Wyden--and see how agenda driven groups rated her compared to the others. Here's a snippet from Clinton's list:

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Eagle Forum 20 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Republican Liberty Caucus 13 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Christian Action Network 8 percent during their legislative career up until 2004.

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Concerned Women for America 7 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 On the votes that the Campaign for Working Families considered to be the most important in 2003-2004, Senator Clinton voted their preferred position 5 percent of the time.

2003 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 0 percent in 2003.

2003 On the votes that the Eagle Forum considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Clinton voted their preferred position 13 percent of the time.

2003 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Concerned Women for America 0 percent in 2003.

2003 On the votes that the Campaign for Working Families considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Clinton voted their preferred position 5 percent of the time.

2003 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 10 percent in 2003.

2003 On the votes that the Republican Liberty Caucus considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Clinton voted their preferred position 25 percent of the time.

2003 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Center for Reclaiming America 0 percent in 2003.

2003 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Republican Liberty Caucus on economic issues 20 percent in 2003.

2003 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Republican Liberty Caucus on personal liberties 30 percent in 2003.

2002 On the votes that the Eagle Forum considered to be the most important in 2002, Senator Clinton voted their preferred position 25 percent of the time.

2002 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 10 percent in 2002.

2002 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Conservative Index - The John Birch Society 25 percent in 2002.

2002 On the votes that the Republican Liberty Caucus considered to be the most important in 2002, Senator Clinton voted their preferred position 23 percent of the time.

2002 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Republican Liberty Caucus on personal liberties 31 percent in 2002.

2002 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Republican Liberty Caucus on economic issues 15 percent in 2002.A far lefty would be closer to zero for these folks--the John Birch Society, for fuck's sake. Get a grip, conservatives--Hillary's not the liberal your side has made her out to be.

Social liberalism doesn't necessarily make someone left-wing either.