NationStates Jolt Archive

I know Ms. Merkel only ran once and that Schroeder ran twice before. I also know that the vote was split between 4 or 5 parties with Merkels Christian Democrats on top and Schroeder's Socialist Democrats party in second.

Schroeder used anti-americanism in 2002 and he used it in this past election which helped him close a huge gap on merkel. It was not overt in his speeches but it was there. I saw posters with flag draped american coffins and in 2002 he likened Bush to hitler. an attack on the American president by a foreigner is an attack on the american people as Hugo Chavez learned recently. Schroeder also publicly undermined any of Bush's foreign policies such as demanding a military option be taken off the table regarding the Iranian Nuclear threat (how stupid). This was to show he was "tough" to stand up to America (as opposed to Tony Blair one would presume).

Also, the parties allied with schroeder such as the German green party depicted angela merkel on a poster as having a "W" crown, waving an american flag and i even saw a poster of angela merkel looking like monica lewinsky while Bush held a cigar.

from what i saw, it seemed whoever was willing to, stick it to america, could get a german vote with relative ease. My sister lives in Germany and though she kept her mouth shut about politics (she loves Germany by the way) she told me that whenever she ran across a Schroeder supporter they would have to say something negative about America. almost everytime.

but you're right lets not hijack this thread. I just wanted to clear up where I am coming from.

Ok, I'm going to answer this here as I regard it as highly impolite to hijack threads in this manner.

I never saw an election poster with American flags on it, wherever they may have been, there were none in my home town. None in Leipzig, either. And none in Berlin and Cologne. Can't account for the rest of Germany, though.
The Green Party is known for its pointed election posters, but again I've never seen any of those you mentioned. Kind of odd, wouldn't you think, that you as an American seem to have seen more election posters than I did living in that country and following the election campaigns?

Schroeder never likened Bush to Hitler. That was a remark by minister Herta Daeubler-Gmelin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herta_Daeubler-Gmelin), who in turn resigned becasue of it.
I don't even know where you got that bit about Iran from, that was a complete non-issue at the time.

You don't need to meet Schroeder-supporters to hear negative things about current US politics. After Bush declared that those who weren't with him in Iraq were obviously against him, the German public felt that if he wasn't looking for allies but rather for more people to boss around, they were going to distance themselves. Understandable, wouldn't you say?

Yes.

Right, this spawned in a different thread and we should really stop hijacking. So here goes:
I know Ms. Merkel only ran once and that Schroeder ran twice before. I also know that the vote was split between 4 or 5 parties with Merkels Christian Democrats on top and Schroeder's Socialist Democrats party in second. Mrs. Merkel. Both parties lost votes, namely to the Left Party, which was mainly protesting the Hartz IV reforms. The only country to really feature in foreign policy of any candidate was Turkey.

Schroeder used anti-americanism in 2002 and he used it in this past election which helped him close a huge gap on merkel. It was not overt in his speeches but it was there. Quote it or drop it.
I saw posters with flag draped american coffins and in 2002 he likened Bush to hitler. Source it. I never saw anything like that.
an attack on the American president by a foreigner is an attack on the american people as Hugo Chavez learned recently. Good that Schröder never did anything of the sort. Pat Robertson does crap like that though.
Schroeder also publicly undermined any of Bush's foreign policies such as demanding a military option be taken off the table regarding the Iranian Nuclear threat (how stupid). And surprisingly, the people voted for that option. If you consider that the party that made the greatest gains was the one that wants to pull out of Afghanistan too, you can consider that Germans are overwhelmingly in favor of not going to war. Besides, Bush's foreign policy is hardly a pinnacle of brilliance. Undermining it is an achievement.
This was to show he was "tough" to stand up to America (as opposed to Tony Blair one would presume).If anything of the sort can be attributed to him, it's during the 2002 election, in which he explicitly stated that Germany would not go to war in Iraq. He NEVER mentioned anything about the US where that was concerned.

Also, the parties allied with schroeder such as the German green party depicted angela merkel on a poster as having a "W" crown, waving an american flag and i even saw a poster of angela merkel looking like monica lewinsky while Bush held a cigar.Link the Green poster and I'll believe it. As for the Monica Lewinsky one, you can find it on the page of the Eulenspiegel, the Satirical Magazine that produced it in the first place.

from what i saw, it seemed whoever was willing to, stick it to america, could get a german vote with relative ease. Which is why the Left Party won so many votes and the CDU lost votes?

CDU/CSU - slightly pro American (a card they made sure not to play during the election, hoping that people would forgive her letter that she wrote to an American newspaper after the 2002 election)
The Left Party - Newly formed from the PDS and WASG (played the "peace party" card considerably during the campaign)

2002 (http://stat.tagesschau.de/wahlarchiv/wid42/index.shtml) the CDU/CSU had 38.5% and the PDS had 4% (effectively barring the party from faction size in parliament)

2005 (http://stat.tagesschau.de/wahlarchiv/wid246/index.shtml) the CDU/CSU had 35.2% and the PDS+WASG union jumped to 8.7%

Your premise that being for America paid off is DE-BUNKED!

My sister lives in Germany and though she kept her mouth shut about politics (she loves Germany by the way) she told me that whenever she ran across a Schroeder supporter they would have to say something negative about America. almost everytime.Exactly. Schröder supporter, not Schröder. The people voted more left than they did in the last election.

I agree with Cabra's and Laerod's posts. Thanks, guys, you saved me a lot time and nerve typing that up. :fluffle:

Laerod, I think you misread the post you are referring to.

It read "stick it to America" - not simply "stick to America"...

I agree with Cabra's and Laerod's posts. Thanks, guys, you saved me a lot time and nerve typing that up. :fluffle:

Laerod, I think you misread the post you are referring to.

It read "stick it to America" - not simply "stick to America"...He was claiming that Angie won because she was pro American earlier.

He was claiming that Angie won because she was pro American earlier.
Could you link to that thread/post, please? I'd like to have a good chuckle... ;)

Could you link to that thread/post, please? I'd like to have a good chuckle... ;)Eat your heart out. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11803750&postcount=1164) There's more where that came from if you keep reading.

That's why I love this joint. International politics. I learn so much here.

That's why I love this joint. International politics. I learn so much here.

Well, since the original offender seems to have left, let's turn it into an "Ask the Germans"- thread.
Anything in particular you'd like to know?

That's why I love this joint. International politics. I learn so much here.The sick thing is, the bullshit we got to hear from D was nearly the exact same crap someone who had only been following Fox spewed right after the election.

Thanks for the link, Laerod - I would never have guessed to look into that thread to find it!

You know, sometimes I wish I could get this Fox News here - just to have a good reason to laugh more often per day (yes, I remember Cabra's thread ;)).

Well, since the original offender seems to have left, let's turn it into an "Ask the Germans"- thread.
Anything in particular you'd like to know?

Not off the top of my head. I only clicked on the thread because I had to find out if the US actually had a role in German politics. I was thinking "hell, the Germans have to be smarter than allowing us to fuck up their country the same way we've fucked up our own." Looks like my faith wasn't misplaced.

Not off the top of my head. I only clicked on the thread because I had to find out if the US actually had a role in German politics. I was thinking "hell, the Germans have to be smarter than allowing us to fuck up their country the same way we've fucked up our own." Looks like my faith wasn't misplaced.
The day that happens is the day that racial profiling will cease to work at airports... :mad::eek::D

Well, since the original offender seems to have left, let's turn it into an "Ask the Germans"- thread.
Anything in particular you'd like to know?
erm...why is it that, in the adverts for 'visit Germany' on the Tube, the best things they can come up with as reasons that Germany is a great place are a stopwatch, a train, a pair of trainers and a hotel doorman?

Not off the top of my head. I only clicked on the thread because I had to find out if the US actually had a role in German politics. I was thinking "hell, the Germans have to be smarter than allowing us to fuck up their country the same way we've fucked up our own." Looks like my faith wasn't misplaced.

Thanks for believeing in us. :D

The sick thing is, the bullshit we got to hear from D was nearly the exact same crap someone who had only been following Fox spewed right after the election.PErhaps it's time we stop calling them neo-Conservatives & start calling them neo-Conspiracy theorists :p

erm...why is it that, in the adverts for 'visit Germany' on the Tube, the best things they can come up with as reasons that Germany is a great place are a stopwatch, a train, a pair of trainers and a hotel doorman?

I'd say because Neuschwanstein, the Rhine river, Bavarian costumes, Sauerkraut, folk music and cuckoo clocks have been done to death. Show the public something they didn't expect, I say!

I'd say because Neuschwanstein, the Rhine river, Bavarian costumes, Sauerkraut, folk music and cuckoo clocks have been done to death. Show the public something they didn't expect, I say!
:p

http://www.invest-in-germany.de/graphics/thinkagain/ThinkGermany_all.pdf

These are the posters they put up (it's a relatively large pdf file). They make me chuckle everytime I see them. :p

I'd say because Neuschwanstein, the Rhine river, Bavarian costumes, Sauerkraut, folk music and cuckoo clocks have been done to death. Show the public something they didn't expect, I say!
Friendly, humorous Germans would do the trick - although the rest of the world might not be convinced by that?

:p

http://www.invest-in-germany.de/graphics/thinkagain/ThinkGermany_all.pdf

These are the posters they put up (it's a relatively large pdf file). They make me chuckle everytime I see them. :p

Hmm... I see the point. But I don't like them much. They're too sleek. Germany has been identifying with that kind of image way too long in my opinion.

Hmm... I see the point. But I don't like them much. They're too sleek. Germany has been identifying with that kind of image way too long in my opinion.
I'm not sure what would make Germany a more attractive tourist destination. It's never one that people would come up with for a holiday; more of a school exchange destination.

Having said that, I'm not sure that mass tourism from Britain is ever something people should be encouraging. The British do not make good tourists.

erm...why is it that, in the adverts for 'visit Germany' on the Tube, the best things they can come up with as reasons that Germany is a great place are a stopwatch, a train, a pair of trainers and a hotel doorman?No clue. We don't get to see those.

I'm not sure what would make Germany a more attractive tourist destination. It's never one that people would come up with for a holiday; more of a school exchange destination.

Having said that, I'm not sure that mass tourism from Britain is ever something people should be encouraging. The British do not make good tourists.

*lol
Oh, tourism IS a big industry for Germany. But it's less the "lying on a beach in the sun all day slowly getting drunk and then trying to make yourself understood by the locals by either using baby talk, speaking reeeeeeaaaally slow, or really loud" kind of vacation.
It tends to be more sight seeing (Munich, Cologne, Berlin, and some of the most famous castles in the world), or activity holidays. Hiking in the Alps, bicycle tours along the Rhine or the Danube, that sort of thing.

Hmm... I see the point. But I don't like them much. They're too sleek. Germany has been identifying with that kind of image way too long in my opinion.
Then again, Germany is such a complex place - how are you going to portray it in a couple of pictures? Hell, 5-10 pictures wouldn't be enough to give you even the slightest impression of my hometown or the place I study at...

:p

http://www.invest-in-germany.de/graphics/thinkagain/ThinkGermany_all.pdf

These are the posters they put up (it's a relatively large pdf file). They make me chuckle everytime I see them. :p
Gah, stupid giant pdf almost crashed my computer. *grumbles* Well, I could see the train - and the first thing I thought was why the hell they couldn't photoshop out the dead flies and dirt on the front. Like, seriously.

So much for stereotypes. Sorry. :p

Then again, Germany is such a complex place - how are you going to portray it in a couple of pictures? Hell, 5-10 pictures wouldn't be enough to give you even the slightest impression of my hometown or the place I study at...
Oh, I'm sure there is a huge amount about the country that would be attractive to British tourists, but, like I say, it never seems to be a 'natural' choice of destination.

I suppose it is because the mass market here really does go for sun, booze, and an area so used to nasty tourists that they all speak English and serve everything with chips. Those people who are interested in cultural things will go, but just won't ever register as a significant market.

Then again, Germany is such a complex place - how are you going to portray it in a couple of pictures? Hell, 5-10 pictures wouldn't be enough to give you even the slightest impression of my hometown or the place I study at...

I'm not a marketing specialist, I don't nearly make enough money for that. I guess you'd have to figure out what group you want your adds to appeal to, and then take pictures that would appeal to theat group.

Those adds in the pdf are clearly aimed a business people and young urbanites, I'd say.

Gah, stupid giant pdf almost crashed my computer. *grumbles*
Sorry, I can't find them anywhere else. :(

Oh, I'm sure there is a huge amount about the country that would be attractive to British tourists, but, like I say, it never seems to be a 'natural' choice of destination.

I suppose it is because the mass market here really does go for sun, booze, and an area so used to nasty tourists that they all speak English and serve everything with chips. Those people who are interested in cultural things will go, but just won't ever register as a significant market.

Hm, when I first read your post about Germany not being a holiday destination for the British I was surprised, but now that I think about it - England isn't exactly a holiday destination for Germans, either.

Of course there is London, a big favourite for weekend shopping trips esp. for younger people and esp. since the rise of the low-price airlines. But apart from that, England is definitely not a prominent holiday destination. Not to say people don't go there, but without London, England would no doubt rank way on the bottom of holiday destinations. Scotland and esp. Ireland are far more popular, but really mainly for hiking vacations.

The main draws for the average German tourist *shudder* are still sun and ocean and beach, so yeah...

Sorry, I can't find them anywhere else. :(
Eh, nevermind. Maybe it'll teach me to finally get more RAM. :rolleyes:

Of course there is London, a big favourite for weekend shopping trips esp. for younger people and esp. since the rise of the low-price airlines.
People actually fly here at weekends to be unable to move down Oxford Street and get outrageously ripped off if they do actually make it into a shop? :eek:
The main draws for the average German tourist *shudder* are still sun and ocean and beach, so yeah...
I've really never understood how people can spend a good chunk of their annual wages doing nothing but sitting on a beach for a week, before returning looking redder than a lobster.

People actually fly here at weekends to be unable to move down Oxford Street and get outrageously ripped off if they do actually make it into a shop? :eek:
You know, I've actually never been to London (I know... >.<), but I think they do indeed. :p
And yeah, I'd like to see London, and I'd certainly want to buy stuff, but the mere exchange rate coupled with London prices has always kept me from seeing the appeal of a shopping trip to there, of all places.

I've really never understood how people can spend a good chunk of their annual wages doing nothing but sitting on a beach for a week, before returning looking redder than a lobster. Yep.

Well, I could see the train - and the first thing I thought was why the hell they couldn't photoshop out the dead flies and dirt on the front. Like, seriously.
So much for stereotypes. Sorry. :p
OMFG!

That is scary.

Oh so scary!

My thoughts exactly!!!

"Meh, if they want to show off with their fancy new fast train, why does it have to be so dirty?"

*runs around in circles, waves arms and shouts*

Oh, I'm sure there is a huge amount about the country that would be attractive to British tourists, but, like I say, it never seems to be a 'natural' choice of destination.
I suppose it is because the mass market here really does go for sun, booze, and an area so used to nasty tourists that they all speak English and serve everything with chips. Those people who are interested in cultural things will go, but just won't ever register as a significant market.
"We got more brands of beer than anyone else" should do the trick?

You know, I've actually never been to London (I know... >.<),
I've never been to Berlin, either, so you're alright. In fact, I've never actually made it any further into Germany than Cologne, which is a bit sad really.

"We got more brands of beer than anyone else" should do the trick?
Yeah, that ought to work. :p

Why am I so small? :(

Yeah, that ought to work. :p

Why am I so small? :(
I usually resize the post I quote when it has around 5 lines or more. Saves space on the page.
Besides, I know what I'm referring to, you still know what you've said - and anyone else can either still read it or if they can't, look for your post.
So, it doesn't really have anything to do with you or what you've said. ;)

OMFG!

That is scary.

Oh so scary!

My thoughts exactly!!!

"Meh, if they want to show off with their fancy new fast train, why does it have to be so dirty?"

*runs around in circles, waves arms and shouts*

>.<

I've never been to Berlin, either, so you're alright. In fact, I've never actually made it any further into Germany than Cologne, which is a bit sad really. Don't let the good people of Cologne hear that. :p

>.<
I know. :(
But hadn't you admitted to it, I'd have been way too ashamed of that stereotype to do so myself.
(No, I'm not blaiming you - I'm admitting to being intimidated)

Don't let the good people of Cologne hear that. :p
I meant sad as in the sense that I hadn't ever made it any further into the country. :p

Just in case some of you haven't seen it yet: Best movie about Germany ever (http://www.die-grosse-depression.de/) :D

Just in case some of you haven't seen it yet: Best movie about Germany ever (http://www.die-grosse-depression.de/) :D
Is it depressing? It sounds depressing. I'm in no mood for a depressing movie. It's bad enough as it is right now. :(

Is it depressing? It sounds depressing. I'm in no mood for a depressing movie. It's bad enough as it is right now. :(
Actually it's quite funny. Try watching the trailer.

I was amazed that they showed it on SBS Free-to-air TV only one or two months after it hit the cinemas in Germany.

I'd like to know, are you krauts really as sex-crazed as everyone makes you out to be?

A verbal attack on a nation's leader is only an attack on the country if it is a Fascist or National Socialist nation and subscribes to the "Germany is Hitler and Hitler is Germany" attitude.

I would hope that's not the case with the US, seeing as I was under the impression that it was a republic or some such.

Yeah I watched that program on SBS the other night, very funny, especially the bit with the German King.
Are the Finns really suicidal people?

Just noticed this thread. Glad some of you are having a few "chuckles" at my expense. Now lets get down to business...

He was claiming that Angie won because she was pro American earlier.

I never claimed that. you obviously misunderstood, especially when my whole point was politicians can get elected in Germany by trying to ride a wave of anti-americanism, as Gerhard Schroeder and his allied parties did twice and tried a third time.

Some examples of grotesque anti-americanism in the media and German political campaigns:

The Lords of the World (1997)/Blood for Oil/The Conceited World Power/Operation Rambo (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american7.jpg)

US Firms in Germany: Bloodsuckers (from a top German Union) (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american3.jpg)

Anti-Merkel Campaign Poster using Dead American soldiers (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american4.jpg)

"power and Lies" (Bush as Hitler) (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american1.jpg)

"How America lied to World" (Bush as Hitler yet again) ( http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american2.jpg)

Hitler & Wild West (and a lil tribute to Che Guevarra?) (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american6.jpg)

"American Parasites" (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american5.jpg)

Here is the other "bloodsucker" or "parasite" dpeicted in the past (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american8.jpg)

America the "Arsons" of thw World? ( http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american9.jpg)

Mr. Westerwelle of the FDP party had the following to say on German Anti-americanism, especially the "bloodsucker" depictions:


"And ladies and gentlemen, just this on the topic of where we have arrived in the meantime. This here is the current magazine of the IG Metall, issued by the Chairman of the IG Metall, from Mr. Peters. I show you this not because it is red-green, instead I show you this because here on the cover page of the official organizational organ of the IG Metall, issued by the Chairman under the title "The (Blood-) Suckers" - inside, of course they talk about those who suck blood and the like - the investors, the entrepreneurs are portrayed as mosquitos, of course with a golden crown in their mouth that glistens. And this mosquito, the investors, that haunts and sucks the blood of one German company after the other - it is all described and illustrated in there - of course is wearing an American hat.

Ladies and gentlemen, I say this as a liberal with the greatest clarity: I am against hate of foreigners from the right, but I am also against hate of foreigners from the left ladies and gentlemen!"

Audio Clip of above words ( http://www.medienkritikonline.com/Westerwellemetall.wma)

Westerwelle was then widely criticized by German Mainstream Media ( http://service.spiegel.de/digas/servlet/find/ON=spiegel-354783)


Note: Schroeder and the majority of Germans protested the U.S. involvement in Iraq but remained eerily silent on Russia's constant slaughter of those in Chechnya. Where are those concerned protestors?

Rice depicted as Bush's "Slave" in Germany's Popular Stern magazine. (http://www.stern.de/politik/ausland/index.html?id=535283&nv=hp_st)

"The Voice of her Master/Always at the service of her Master" (translated) (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american10.jpg)

Stern Magazine: ANOTHER picture of Bush in a Hitler Pose with a caption reading "No nation has ever dominated the globe like the USA. And its people could care less about the rest of humanity." (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american11.jpg)

Yes, Americans could care less about humanity. Even though our troops have historically been willing to die for the liberty of others. Even though America gave an immense amount of aid to Asia for Tsunami relief. Even though Bush is doubling Aids funding in Africa which is already pledged in the Billions. Even though the U.S. is the only reliable ally Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East, has to rely on for its survival. No, the American government nor the American people give a damn about the rest of the world.

The Germans also donated pennies for Hurricane Katrina relief, yet this Best Selling German magazine bashes Americans. Sri Lanka gave more proportionally to their gdp than Germany and they certainly did not have to, let alone be able to afford it. ( http://service.spiegel.de/digas/servlet/find/ON=spiegel-374093)


And a nice look at America (stereotypes) from the German Mainstream Media Perspective ( http://www.stern.de/politik/ausland/index.html?id=531097&nv=ct_rl&backref=%2Fpolitik%2Fausland%2F537928.html%3Fnv%3Dhp_rt)


Yeah thank God Merkel was elected even though Schroeder can so easily and effectively appeal to anti-Americanism on the German Street and in the German media. Too bad Merkel allowed a terrorist to go free, who beat to death a young American soldier and tossed his body on a runway after hijacking a plane. No Extradition to the U.S.? (http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1424212.php)

http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1424212.php

Yeah thank God Merkel was elected even though Schroeder can so easily and effectively appeal to anti-Americanism on the German Street and in the German media. Too bad Merkel allowed a terrorist to go free, who beat to death a young American soldier and tossed his body on a runway after hijacking a plane. No Extradition to the U.S.? (http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1424212.php)
Ahem, disregarding the rest of the post for now...this guy sat in jail. He finished his sentence, he was let go.

It's called the "Rule of Law".

Just noticed this thread. Glad some of you are having a few "chuckles" at my expense. Now lets get down to business...
I never claimed that. you obviously misunderstood, especially when my whole point was politicians can get elected in Germany by trying to ride a wave of anti-americanism, as Gerhard Schroeder and his allied parties did twice and tried a third time.Bullshit. BüSo and the NPD didn't manage that during the election.

Some examples of grotesque anti-americanism in the media and German political campaigns:Media. Independent. Not responsible for politicians.

The Lords of the World (1997)/Blood for Oil/The Conceited World Power/Operation Rambo (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american7.jpg)Yes? Considering US foreign policy, don't be surprised if Der Spiegel and Der Stern use catchy pictures. Note that there is much less of this during Clinton's reign, which might indicate that the problem lies with Bush.

US Firms in Germany: Bloodsuckers (from a top German Union) (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american3.jpg)Sparked a massive debate and was based on numerous examples of American groups buying German companies, firing workers to get more profit, and selling them to the next company that would do the same. It was highly controversial and the supporters of that viewpoint received a lot of flak.

Anti-Merkel Campaign Poster using Dead American soldiers (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american4.jpg)I've never seen that one before because the only guy to use it (Rolf Schwanitz) isn't in my district. It's despicable and he was called down for it, apparently.

"power and Lies" (Bush as Hitler) (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american1.jpg)Power and lies, very appropriate. "Bush as Hitler" is something you pulled out of your ass.

"How America lied to World" (Bush as Hitler yet again) ( http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american2.jpg)How America lied to the World, very appropriate, considering the "evidence" provided by Colin Powell in the SC was fake. Again, you pulled the Hitler comparison out of your ass.

Hitler & Wild West (and a lil tribute to Che Guevarra?) (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american6.jpg)The first one is treated above, the second is about how General Motors was handling the Opel situation. As for the Che thing, maybe part of their series on historical figures?

"American Parasites" (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american5.jpg)Belongs into the debate of the investment funds.

Here is the other "bloodsucker" or "parasite" dpeicted in the past (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american8.jpg)If it's WWII propaganda you have to dig into to prove your point, I'm quite sure I can find a bunch of ones that show how anti-German the US is...

America the "Arsons" of thw World? ( http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american9.jpg)Get real. That's the fucking NPD. If you want to use them to prove your point, we can always take a look at how friendly the Christian Party is.

Mr. Westerwelle of the FDP party had the following to say on German Anti-americanism, especially the "bloodsucker" depictions:

Audio Clip of above words ( http://www.medienkritikonline.com/Westerwellemetall.wma)Yup, this was part of the debate.

Westerwelle was then widely criticized by German Mainstream Media ( http://service.spiegel.de/digas/servlet/find/ON=spiegel-354783)It doesn't say for what he was criticized for and I'm not about to buy the article.
Note: Schroeder and the majority of Germans protested the U.S. involvement in Iraq but remained eerily silent on Russia's constant slaughter of those in Chechnya. Where are those concerned protestors?And? Schröder lost votes too. German protestors are currently just as silent as they are on Chechnya. They have lives and usually protest when it's relevant.

Rice depicted as Bush's "Slave" in Germany's Popular Stern magazine. (http://www.stern.de/politik/ausland/index.html?id=535283&nv=hp_st)

"The Voice of her Master/Always at the service of her Master" (translated) (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american10.jpg)Bullshit. She's portrayed as someone that fails to present her own opinion and spouts exactly what her boss would say, which happens to be the case.

Stern Magazine: ANOTHER picture of Bush in a Hitler Pose with a caption reading "No nation has ever dominated the globe like the USA. And its people could care less about the rest of humanity." (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american11.jpg)

Yes, Americans could care less about humanity. Even though our troops have historically been willing to die for the liberty of others. Even though America gave an immense amount of aid to Asia for Tsunami relief. Even though Bush is doubling Aids funding in Africa which is already pledged in the Billions. Even though the U.S. is the only reliable ally Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East, has to rely on for its survival. No, the American government nor the American people give a damn about the rest of the world.Your "Hitler pose" bullshit is getting pretty old.
From an overseas perspective, considering how willing Americans seem to be to vote for people that wage war on the "hunch" that they "might" be in danger, plunging an entire country into total chaos, it seems rather careless. Too many Americans remain woefully ignorant of what kind of shit the Government pulls off. That's where the "Americans don't care" comment comes from: It's not that they aren't without compassion, they are without the desire to inform themselves of the consequences of American foreign policy on others.

The Germans also donated pennies for Hurricane Katrina relief, yet this Best Selling German magazine bashes Americans. Sri Lanka gave more proportionally to their gdp than Germany and they certainly did not have to, let alone be able to afford it. ( http://service.spiegel.de/digas/servlet/find/ON=spiegel-374093)Nice. I remember that the US government was so grateful, they decided to refuse military rations donated on the grounds that it might contain BSE. It was good enough for American GIs to eat in Afghanistan for years before, though.


And a nice look at America (stereotypes) from the German Mainstream Media Perspective ( http://www.stern.de/politik/ausland/index.html?id=531097&nv=ct_rl&backref=%2Fpolitik%2Fausland%2F537928.html%3Fnv%3Dhp_rt)It does have both sides of the argument, doesn't it? Would you have preferred only one side?


Yeah thank God Merkel was elected even though Schroeder can so easily and effectively appeal to anti-Americanism on the German Street and in the German media. Your only sources for German media have been Stern and Spiegel. You're missing quite a bit if you think those representative for the German media landscape.
Too bad Merkel allowed a terrorist to go free, who beat to death a young American soldier and tossed his body on a runway after hijacking a plane. No Extradition to the U.S.? (http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1424212.php)Not sure what kind of dictatorship you live in, but in Germany, we have a federal republic with a division of powers. The Chancellor has no say when it comes to the judiciary. He went to jail for his crime, and now he's free. Don't be draconian.

Menu: Filet MignonGerhard Schroeder constantly railed against America during his campaigning, usually in an attempt to distract the impoverished East German population from his economic failures as a Chancellor. He relished and encouraged anti-American sentiment in the street all in an attempt to get him elected. He linked Bush with Hitler and tried this crap again until Angela Merkel pointed out it was all a distraction from the real issues and defeated him. The German street and especially the academics were so quick to believe this anti-americanism they fell for Schroeder's ploy.

.. Le Sundae
It is incredible how the ignorant often refer to "ignorance" the most. That is what happens when you lack true rationality and knowledge.


.. et La Cerise sur le Sundae.

what is ya...ig-na-rent er sum'in?

.. le pepto-bismol est disponible au comptoir.

Note: Schroeder and the majority of Germans protested the U.S. involvement in Iraq but remained eerily silent on Russia's constant slaughter of those in Chechnya. Where are those concerned protestors?

Well, you should know that Putin is Schröders "buddy". He never attacked him for his obvious violations against human rights. He remain silent after Gazprom took over the whole Oil and Gazmarket in Russia.

And now he is working for Gazprom...

Most people in Germany don't like Putins policy. But you are right - there was never a huga Anti-Russianism. Perhaps the reason is that people don't think that Russia is so powerful in the world. And Russia foreign policy was mainly concentrated at their neighbours, so it was not in the media so often.

Laerod, you can do your little dance of Lie, Cry and Deny but the evidence speaks for itself.

The fact that you refuse to recognize the picture of Bush, with his arm out in front of him as if in a Nazi Salute and the American flag pasted behind him, as a Hitler pose shows your complete lack of honesty.

And that Terrorist was released early, out on parole and he should have been extradited to the United States which is what an ally often does for another ally.

The cycle has begun, Lie, Cry and Deny.

The real question is, can you cast more dispersions than Merlin can cast spells?


EDIT> hey at least the Germans are not as bas as, oh i don't know, the French.

Well, you should know that Putin is Schröders "buddy". He never attacked him for his obvious violations against human rights. He remain silent after Gazprom took over the whole Oil and Gazmarket in Russia.

And now he is working for Gazprom...

Most people in Germany don't like Putins policy. But you are right - there was never a huga Anti-Russianism. Perhaps the reason is that people don't think that Russia is so powerful in the world. And Russia foreign policy was mainly concentrated at their neighbours, so it was not in the media so often.

What I find disturbing, besides the hypocrisy with Russia, is that Germans seem to be so concerned with "America's Power". It was they who tried to take over the world twice in a single generation and it was America's Power which they relied on desperately to protect them from the Soviets.

Yet now suddenly America has to be "balanced out" and the rhetoric is just getting vicious.

Laerod, you can do your little dance of Lie, Cry and Deny but the evidence speaks for itself.

The fact that you refuse to recognize the picture of Bush, with his arm out in front of him as if in a Nazi Salute and the American flag pasted behind him, as a Hitler pose shows your complete lack of honesty.

You stated that Schröder tried to link Bush to Hitler and your proof is a picture from Der Stern, with Bush raising his right arm - a gesture made by politicians made all over the world? Sorry, but that is not very convincing.

Try this Google search (http://images.google.de/images?hl=de&q=bush%20hitler&btnG=Google-Suche&sa=N&tab=wi) to find out to properly depict Bush as Hitler.

And even if Der Stern had published such a picture - it still wouldn't mean that Schröder had anything to do with it.

I think what you are confusing is a critical view on US politics held by many German media and politicians with anti-Americanism. And still - US politics did not play a major part in the recent elections in Germany, but it might be that the US media would concentrate their coverage on those parts, thus resulting in a distorted image of the elections.

Besides, don't you think it's telling that so far all the Germans who have posted in this thread disagree with your view on German politics?

You stated that Schröder tried to link Bush to Hitler and your proof is a picture from Der Stern, with Bush raising his right arm - a gesture made by politicians made all over the world? Sorry, but that is not very convincing.

Try this Google search (http://images.google.de/images?hl=de&q=bush%20hitler&btnG=Google-Suche&sa=N&tab=wi) to find out to properly depict Bush as Hitler.

And even if Der Stern had published such a picture - it still wouldn't mean that Schröder had anything to do with it.

I think what you are confusing is a critical view on US politics held by many German media and politicians with anti-Americanism. And still - US politics did not play a major part in the recent elections in Germany, but it might be that the US media would concentrate their coverage on those parts, thus resulting in a distorted image of the elections.

Besides, don't you think it's telling that so far all the Germans who have posted in this thread disagree with your view on German politics?

Oh come on, it is obvious anti-Americanism (a real word?) has some part to play in politics. Now we are debating how extensive it really is, from what I see from all of thos hyperlinks from Dem', there is extensive efforts to boost ratings by bagging away on Bush.

Look at all of those google images! How many are from Germany...

Oh come on, it is obvious anti-Americanism (a real word?) has some part to play in politics. Now we are debating how extensive it really is, from what I see from all of thos hyperlinks from Dem', there is extensive efforts to boost ratings by bagging away on Bush.

Look at all of those google images! How many are from Germany...

Because the link I posted is from the German version of Google?

You stated that Schröder tried to link Bush to Hitler and your proof is a picture from Der Stern, with Bush raising his right arm - a gesture made by politicians made all over the world? Sorry, but that is not very convincing.

Try this Google search (http://images.google.de/images?hl=de&q=bush%20hitler&btnG=Google-Suche&sa=N&tab=wi) to find out to properly depict Bush as Hitler.

And even if Der Stern had published such a picture - it still wouldn't mean that Schröder had anything to do with it.

I think what you are confusing is a critical view on US politics held by many German media and politicians with anti-Americanism. And still - US politics did not play a major part in the recent elections in Germany, but it might be that the US media would concentrate their coverage on those parts, thus resulting in a distorted image of the elections.

Besides, don't you think it's telling that so far all the Germans who have posted in this thread disagree with your view on German politics?

Schroeders popularity surged everytime these images were put out there. He benefited which showed the mindset of the German street.

as for your last statement, oh come on, they are left leaning Germans and they would never admit to something as shameful as this.

The evidence speaks for itself and represents political campaigns, best selling german magazines and a top german union. there is alot more where that came from.

Here is a side by side Bush/Hitler comparison by a left-wing fringe group, origin unknown. It is obvious the comparisons the German media are trying to draw when they use the "Hitler Pose". Other groups use the same pose. (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american12.jpg)

G'day

Because the link I posted is from the German version of Google?

Well, there is a lot of Bush influenced German politics going around, or at least it looks that way from all the pictures.

Laerod, you can do your little dance of Lie, Cry and Deny but the evidence speaks for itself.Takes a delusionist to know one.
The fact that you refuse to recognize the picture of Bush, with his arm out in front of him as if in a Nazi Salute and the American flag pasted behind him, as a Hitler pose shows your complete lack of honesty.Aw, bullshit. If your interpretation of the picture was a common one, there would have been a massive public outcry.
The fact remains that your equating of Nazi Salute and Hitler pose shows your complete lack of knowledge ;)

And that Terrorist was released early, out on parole and he should have been extradited to the United States which is what an ally often does for another ally.First off, he's sat off his prison term. By law, he's free now. There's rule of law in the US too.
As for an ally doing things for another, the US needs to start following the rules when it comes to incarcerating and executing nationals from an "allied" country before you have a right to start bitching about the German judiciary branch.

The cycle has begun, Lie, Cry and Deny.Reciprocity's a bitch, isn't it?

The real question is, can you cast more dispersions than Merlin can cast spells?


EDIT> hey at least the Germans are not as bas as, oh i don't know, the French.Nice, a couple of personal attacks and some Frenchbashing added to boot. :rolleyes:

Schroeders popularity surged everytime these images were put out there. He benefited which showed the mindset of the German street.Prove it.

as for your last statement, oh come on, they are left leaning Germans and they would never admit to something as shameful as this.If Von Witzleben shows up, it's highly unlikely that he'll have a differing opinion.

The evidence speaks for itself and represents political campaigns, best selling german magazines and a top german union. there is alot more where that came from.The only political campaigns you managed to represent were the discussion on investment funds, which the IG Metall criticized for ruining some German businesses with their practices. You completely fail to recognize how controversial this was. I remember calling out Müntefering for his left wing populism, and I wasn't the only one. You didn't mention that at all and it was there. You're just not looking for it.

Here is a side by side Bush/Hitler comparison by a left-wing fringe group, origin unknown. It is obvious the comparisons the German media are trying to draw when they use the "Hitler Pose". Other groups use the same pose. (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/Dark_Sumerian/Germananti-american12.jpg)Emphasis on "fringe group". That's by definition not mainstream.

Well, there is a lot of Bush influenced German politics going around, or at least it looks that way from all the pictures.You honestly believe that's all the pictures? :rolleyes:
Turkey played a bigger role in the election.

What I find disturbing, besides the hypocrisy with Russia, is that Germans seem to be so concerned with "America's Power". It was they who tried to take over the world twice in a single generation and it was America's Power which they relied on desperately to protect them from the Soviets.

Yet now suddenly America has to be "balanced out" and the rhetoric is just getting vicious.

Well, the last time "they" tried it was 60 years ago - that means that most Germans living today didn't have anything to do with it.

In the cold war, there was no Anti-Amercanism - they feared the Sovjets much more. But today, America is the only superpower. That makes a lot of people feeling uncomfortable. I think, this is the reason for the Anti-Americansim in the world.

But the main reason for the Anti-Americanism is Bush. While Clinton was at Power, the Germans liked the USA. But now the people in Germany (and in many other European countries) don't like this kind of aggressive foreign policy of the current goverment. Perhaps "Anti-Bushism" would be the better word.
If the Germans would have voted the American president the las time, Kerry would have got 80 to 90% of the votes. ;)

Daemonocracy, it is not the German press' fault that George W. Bush raises his arm a lot. In fact, he usually raises that arm whenever there is a camera near him, whether its the 'friendly Texan wave' or the 'assertive leader point', raising his arm is an important device in Bush's rhetorical reportoire.

Also, its time you faced the music: some Germans do hate America. Those Germans may also have internet access and a copy of some kind of image editing program, thus they will put images such as the Bush-Hitler camparison (which is by the way the ONLY image you have a case with) on the internet.

All the other images are legitimate criticisms, which you have no right to curtail. No right at all.

Well, America never really has had any compuction against messing with other countries' elections. The CIA planned to bump off the leaders of the Social Democrats of Germany in the event of a soviet invasion. Millions of dollars in Marshall Plan aid went to the Italian Christian Democrats to keep the Left wing out of power after WWII. Don't even get me started on Salvador Allende in Chile.

The short of it is, US foreign policy has 3 planks.

1. We get to mess with you.

2. But you better not even think about messing our plans, or we'll bomb you.

3. Hahahaha.

I'm still not quite sure what Daemonocracy's problem really is.
Does he really believe that publicly stating antipathy against the Bush government is enough to win an election in a democratic, balanced country such as Germany?
If so, he either has an incredibly exaggerated opinion of the role the US plays in other countries' politics, or else it's an indication of his perception of the democratic process in his own country projected onto another one... either way, it's simply ridiculous.

Yes, Germans now have a lot of resentments against the Bush administration, and in consequence the USA and its politics. That does not mean that they would elect politicians based on what these think about the USA. There are far more important issues than that.
Besides, all Daemonocracy has presented so far were depictions by the press and statements by private persons (and no, unions are not allowed into politics in Germany). The one statement against either the USA or Bush was the remark by Herta Daeubler-Gmelin, and she had to take her leave for it.
So, please, provide comments by Schroeder, and provide proof that he actually won an election with those comments alone.