NationStates Jolt Archive

Here is what I am thinking:

One high school gets one legal vote for each candidate (w/ a school election to determine which vote will be cast.)

I think it would encourage kids to register to vote on or near their 18th birthday. (as it is, most dont register until well into their 20s or higher)

Thoughts?

Here is what I am thinking:

One high school gets one legal vote for each candidate (w/ a school election to determine which vote will be cast.)

I think it would encourage kids to register to vote on or near their 18th birthday. (as it is, most dont register until well into their 20s or higher)

Thoughts?

What elections??

President, Congress, SSS??

No, high schoolers are still too young and impressionable. Plus, most of them just follow their parents politics instead of making their own decision, or they fall into the peer pressure from friends, or they're too focused on a single issue.

I think 18 is really the youngest age that a person can vote.

Whoa, fuck no.

What elections??

President, Congress, SSS??

All elections

They should be if they're >=18. I don't see what giving a school a vote would accomplish. Besides, thing of the cost involved in making sure a principal doesn't just use it as an opportunity to have two votes.

Here is what I am thinking:

One high school gets one legal vote for each candidate (w/ a school election to determine which vote will be cast.)

I think it would encourage kids to register to vote on or near their 18th birthday. (as it is, most dont register until well into their 20s or higher)

Thoughts?

Personally I think it would be easier to just make voter registration mandatory for everyone upon turning 18. Much like Selective Service registration is for males upon reaching 18.

But that's just me.

They should be if they're >=18. I don't see what giving a school a vote would accomplish. Besides, thing of the cost involved in making sure a principal doesn't just use it as an opportunity to have two votes.

The main goal being: getting people to register to vote at a younger age

The main goal being: getting people to register to vote at a younger age

An ad campaign would be easier and cheaper.

An ad campaign would be easier and cheaper.

Yea but that didnt work, Did it?: "Rock the Vote" and "Vote or Die" didnt do squat.

The main goal being: getting people to register to vote at a younger age

You can get them involved without actually giving them a vote. You could offer for them to become volunteers to help with the election processes, for example.

Yea but that didnt work, Did it?: "Rock the Vote" and "Vote or Die" didnt do squat.
I wouldn't know
You can get them involved without actually giving them a vote. You could offer for them to become volunteers to help with the election processes, for example.
That makes much more sense.

Here is what I am thinking:

One high school gets one legal vote for each candidate (w/ a school election to determine which vote will be cast.)

I think it would encourage kids to register to vote on or near their 18th birthday. (as it is, most dont register until well into their 20s or higher)

Thoughts?
Should high schoolers be involved? Yes. As per your suggestion or similar? No.

High schoolers ought to be involved, specifically their involvement should be preparing for their future role as electors.

They should be given the skills necessary to understand what it is they will be participating, not as a 'match' between 'the two main contenders' not as a reification of 'all things apple pie', but as what it really is, warts, beauty and all.

Students need a much better understanding of how the system generates effects, how legislation plays out in application and why, the rational of 'checks and balances' - not just how grand it is or even how important, but that it relies on particular mechanisms, and the relationship between those mechanisms and seemingly remote aspects of the system, the duties kind and degree of authority, autonomy and accountability (or lack if that is the case) of various significant agencies offices and entities (for example the FBI, the DA's office, FEMA, their local school board, city planning commitees....).
There's a lot that people need to know to be informed participants, and either we can find a way to pass on an ability to navigate the fields of knowledge involved (in response to particular needs/circumstances) or the system is fatally flawed by being too complex to meet the requirement that participants understand it.

You can get them involved without actually giving them a vote. You could offer for them to become volunteers to help with the election processes, for example.

Good point. But in a school with say. 3000 kids, How many of them would be involved? 50? 100? Not enough.

Only 1 (one) vote per school would be added to the totals. I think this would gets millions of people registered at age 18 each year (rather than the incredible low numbers of the now)

Good point. But in a school with say. 3000 kids, How many of them would be involved? 50? 100? Not enough.

Only 1 (one) vote per school would be added to the totals. I think this would gets millions of people registered at age 18 each year (rather than the incredible low numbers of the now)

I think you wouldn't really encourage kids to vote that way.
One of the main arguments why people can't be arsed is that a single vote counts very little anyway. By having a single vote per school, the vote of each student counts even less than that.
I think this might turn out to be a way of frustrating the children very early on with the democratic process in a very large community, such as a nation.

What might be a good idea would be to lower the voting age for small regional elections, but keep it at 18 for general elections.

Students need a much better understanding of how the system generates effects, how legislation plays out in application and why, the rational of 'checks and balances'

Right. And wouldnt, actual, hands on involvment, (even at the most minimum level) be the best learning tool? (kind of like: on the job training)

Right. And wouldnt, actual, hands on involvment, (even at the most minimum level) be the best learning tool? (kind of like: on the job training)

Voting doesn't teach you anything about legislation, the system or "checks and balances".

I think you wouldn't really encourage kids to vote that way.


Couldnt hurt to try. Nothing else seems to work.

Voting doesn't teach you anything about legislation, the system or "checks and balances".

No. Not the actual, casting of a balot. Im suggesting that it would get kids to "want" to pay more attention to the election process and to "want" to get involved at a more tangable level after high school.

So...nobody thinks we should just make them register?

I thought it was a good way to solve the problem. :p

So...nobody thinks we should just make them register?

I thought it was a good way to solve the problem. :p

But what then? Make them vote too? Pay a fine if they didnt vote? If they were made to vote then they would probably write-in their choices w/ silly candidates. We need the youth to want to vote.

But what then? Make them vote too? Pay a fine if they didnt vote? If they were made to vote then they would probably write-in their choices w/ silly candidates. We need the youth to want to vote.

No...mandatory voting is pretty stupid in my opinion. But at least if we make everyone register, then that step is out of the way once a person decides to get involved.

Couldn't hurt...and might help...so why not?

Obligatory voting does work well in Belgium, but i cant see it working out in the US.

No...mandatory voting is pretty stupid in my opinion. But at least if we make everyone register, then that step is out of the way once a person decides to get involved.

Couldn't hurt...and might help...so why not?

Yes it might help a little. Im talking about a lot. Im talking about the possibility of doubling the amount of active voters (by 2012 or so)

I don't mind high School students voting as long as they're 18.

Compulsory registration works OK here, and it might make a few people vote instead of thinking "I want to vote for him! Oh, I'm not registered. Can't be arsed then". But, at the end of the day, it has to be remembered that voting's a lot like masturbation; it makes you feel better for a while, but doesn't actually make a difference. And if more people are voting, each individual vote is worth even less.

it has to be remembered that voting's a lot like masturbation;

Best anaolgy ever.

Yes it might help a little. Im talking about a lot. Im talking about the possibility of doubling the amount of active voters (by 2012 or so)

I agree with you in general, however I think this time frame is unrealistic. In the UK we do things like hold mock-elections (at my school at least!), not for an actual role (class president etc.) but when a general election is pending the students who want to get involved do so and go about campaigning as if representing an actual political party or as an independent.

It's a great way to help kids who are interested find out more about the process. I was the campaign manager for a friend who was running (way back in 1997!) and it taught me a lot about the whole process. You can't force kids to take an interest, but you can help those who do have an interest to understand it more, preparing them for adult political life.

The disadvantage is that with teenagers this can degenerate into a popularity contest. With my campaign we came second (out of about six), the most popular guy won, but it showed something that despite my candidate being a real outsider he still came second as we had a well-constructed campaign and positive messages that obviously got the attention of a lot of voters.

My eight year old niece just won an election for class representative at her school in Scotland, running against a girl who was promising donuts to all her classmates. Despite the popularity of this promise, the kids saw through it and went for my girl who was promising fairness and good representation!

Sorry, I digress. My point is just that the best you can do is encourage young people to take an interest and teach them how it all works. You really can't force feed democracy!

(Nice sig btw.)

voting's a lot like masturbation; it makes you feel better for a while, but doesn't actually make a difference. And if more people are voting, each individual vote is worth even less.

The election system is not there to make people feel better. It is there for the people to express their opinon of what direction they want their: nation, state and community to go.

I agree with you in general, however I think this time frame is unrealistic. In the UK we do things like hold mock-elections (at my school at least!), not for an actual role (class president etc.) but when a general election is pending the students who want to get involved do so and go about campaigning as if representing an actual political party or as an independent.

It's a great way to help kids who are interested find out more about the process. I was the campaign manager for a friend who was running (way back in 1997!) and it taught me a lot about the whole process. You can't force kids to take an interest, but you can help those who do have an interest to understand it more, preparing them for adult political life.

The disadvantage is that with teenagers this can degenerate into a popularity contest. With my campaign we came second (out of about six), the most popular guy won, but it showed something that despite my candidate being a real outsider he still came second as we had a well-constructed campaign and positive messages that obviously got the attention of a lot of voters.

My eight year old niece just won an election for class representative at her school in Scotland, running against a girl who was promising donuts to all her classmates. Despite the popularity of this promise, the kids saw through it and went for my girl who was promising fairness and good representation!

Sorry, I digress. My point is just that the best you can do is encourage young people to take an interest and teach them how it all works. You really can't force feed democracy!

(Nice sig btw.)


Rofl @ the free donuts candidate. :D

The timeframe is just a guess. Implement my plan for the 2008 USA elections and I think the numbers would grow dramticly by 2012.

Schools here in USA also have mock elections but still very few register at a young age.

Maybe if only High School seniors were allowed to vote (still with only 1 vote counting per school)

Thanks! Sig from the TV show Babylon-5 (best show ever) http://www.postsmile.com/img/emotions/223.gif

If they're old enough to work then they're old enough to vote.

Not sure what the minimum age is for employment in the US, but I have a feeling a lot of kids in highschool who work don't get to vote. Which seems stupid.

What's the youngest you can join the Armed Forces in the US?

No, high schoolers are still too young and impressionable. Plus, most of them just follow their parents politics instead of making their own decision, or they fall into the peer pressure from friends, or they're too focused on a single issue.

I think 18 is really the youngest age that a person can vote.

I find that to be semi offensive. I agree that students are impressionable, but i dont think they are more impressionable then say, the voting constituants of todays society (america).

Especialy post 9-11. People seem to be flocking en mass to support our civil liberties being smashed and trampled. Yet it seems that those who stand up to defend our rights, and are the least impressionable (Security? Pish pots. How about our rights?) seem to be the very people you deem as impressionable.

Fluffle time!
:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

If they're old enough to work then they're old enough to vote.

Not sure what the minimum age is for employment in the US, but I have a feeling a lot of kids in highschool who work don't get to vote. Which seems stupid.

What's the youngest you can join the Armed Forces in the US?

Joining the armed forces is 18 in America I believe. No idea about the minimum age of employment though.

Here is what I am thinking:

One high school gets one legal vote for each candidate (w/ a school election to determine which vote will be cast.)

I think it would encourage kids to register to vote on or near their 18th birthday. (as it is, most dont register until well into their 20s or higher)

Thoughts?

I think it makes more sense to have a civics class that teaches them what the levels of government are, what their responsibilities are, and every two years, gets them involved in the campaings of local congress people. Let them pick a candidate, and the schools would coordinate volunteers with the respective campaigns. Then get them to write about what they did and grade them on their understanding. Casting a vote for a candidate whose policies they don't understand, and don't care about, does nothing to encourage involvement.

How involved were you with the material when you got a multiple choice test?
Now imagine you weren't going to get graded on that test.

Joining the armed forces is 18 in Amreica I believe. No idea about the minimum age of employment though.

You can work at 14. Just need "working papers" which schools hand out.

If they're old enough to work then they're old enough to vote.

Not sure what the minimum age is for employment in the US, but I have a feeling a lot of kids in highschool who work don't get to vote. Which seems stupid.

What's the youngest you can join the Armed Forces in the US?

17 with parents' permission. But the voting age was lowered from 21 to 18 because the draft started at 18 and 18 - 21 year olds complained "I have to die in a war I don't get to vote against waging?" Or more to the point, their parents complained.

You can work at 14. Just need "working papers" which schools hand out.

Is that working full time or part time?


17 with parents' permission. But the voting age was lowered from 21 to 18 because the draft started at 18 and 18 - 21 year olds complained "I have to die in a war I don't get to vote against waging?" Or more to the point, their parents complained.
Thankyou - and for the background too. In the UK you can join at 16, i think at 15 and 3/4 with parents permission. But you can't be sent to a warzone until you're 18 (i think).

The election system is not there to make people feel better. It is there for the people to express their opinon of what direction they want their: nation, state and community to go.
Yeah, that's why it makes you feel better. You voted, you made your point. When the other guy gets in and fucks it all up you can moan and say "I voted against him!"
But it doesn't make a difference, does it? How many elections have you voted in where your vote actually mattered? Even if the outcome of the election had been different, would anything have actually changed one, two, five years down the line? Or would it have just been the person you voted for fucking up, instead of the one you opposed?

Should High School students be involved in the election process?

Dear God NO!

High school students shouldn't even be allowed to choose what to wear, much less civil servants.

They can barely feed themselves or form a coherent thought ... what in the name of all that is holy would make you think they can honestly direct the future of our nation?!

No ... absolutely no. Nobody who lives with their parents should be allowed to vote.

Good point. But in a school with say. 3000 kids, How many of them would be involved? 50? 100? Not enough.

Only 1 (one) vote per school would be added to the totals. I think this would gets millions of people registered at age 18 each year (rather than the incredible low numbers of the now)

And think of the high school I went to which had ~750 people.

Is that working full time or part time?

This sort of thing varies by state, but here in Michigan if you're under 18 you can only work 18 hours a week during the school year. Of course, if your job is "under the table" you can work as much as you like. From the ages of 14-17 I worked at a strawberry farm, and during the first part of the school year I worked about 30 hours a week (until we closed up the farm for winter).

What a depressing thought, I've been working for 10 years already.

Casting a vote for a candidate whose policies they don't understand, and don't care about, does nothing to encourage involvement.



But they would have from the start of the school year (August, September) till November to gain such an understanding. And if my plan were implemented then over the course of time it could get even younger kids to be more excited about high school and maybe want to watch debates. Wouldnt it be awsome for 13 and 14 year olds to be asking their parents and teachers: What is a mandate? How many people make up congress? (and the like) because the genuinely want to know?

How do you know that it "does nothing to encourage involvement?" I just started this thread a few hours ago. My plan has not yet happened.

Yeah, that's why it makes you feel better. You voted, you made your point. When the other guy gets in and fucks it all up you can moan and say "I voted against him!"
But it doesn't make a difference, does it? How many elections have you voted in where your vote actually mattered? Even if the outcome of the election had been different, would anything have actually changed one, two, five years down the line? Or would it have just been the person you voted for fucking up, instead of the one you opposed?

So in your opinon: All elections are pointless. Gotcha.

So in your opinon: All elections are pointless. Gotcha.

As I implied in my masturbation analogy.

And think of the high school I went to which had ~750 people

Right. And from a school w/ 750 students, I want to see over 700 of them voting before they turn 20. Ill bet the number didnt even reach 100. (as seems to be be the case, nation wide w/ the low percentages of young voters)

Young people who don't really know much about politics and what the parties stand won't vote. Older people will just get in a routine and vote for anyone because they feel they need to without really looking into it.

Speaking as someone who was in high school not too long ago, the average high-schooler will make an even less informed choice than the average person out of high school. Yes, it's actually possible. I wouldn't have believed it myself.

Here is what I am thinking:

One high school gets one legal vote for each candidate (w/ a school election to determine which vote will be cast.)

I think it would encourage kids to register to vote on or near their 18th birthday. (as it is, most dont register until well into their 20s or higher)

Thoughts?

That doesn't sound like a particularly good idea. I've been ready and waiting to vote since the 2004 election when I was 14, but many of my classmates probably aren't, although most of the juniors who, like me, are taking between four and six (six for me) college-level courses are ready. I'm just glad that I'll be old enough to vote in time for the 2008 election.

It's also not really a necessary program, either. We already learn all about voting in US History in junior year and US Government in senior year. Besides, the students who would be interested in such a program would probably be the students who, like me, can hardly wait to have the opportunity to register to vote.

Also, if only seniors could vote in this program, wouldn't that defeat the purpose? Many seniors at my school are 18, and would this take away the vote they already have.

Of course, I believe that everyone should register to vote at 18. I just don't think that this would work. Maybe if the voting age were lowered to 16 or 17 for local elections, perhaps with a necessary test on government and how elections work, then maybe more teenagers would become involved.

Also, people were talking about work earlier. I believe people are able to start working at the age of 14 in some jobs part-time, although many jobs have a minimum of 16. I am not able to work because I'm choosing to focus on my school work and because soon I'm going to start spending several hours a week volunteering as a tutor and I am also involved in three different extra-curricular activities (National Honor Society, Academic Team, and Latin Club, of which I am the secretary), as well. I don't really have time for a job in addition to all of this. However, I know plenty of students who work one or even two jobs as well as going to school, although they may not have as many academic classes as I do.

Speaking as someone who was in high school not too long ago, the average high-schooler will make an even less informed choice than the average person out of high school. Yes, it's actually possible. I wouldn't have believed it myself.

Ahh! But they would make a "more" informed choice after high school if they were more interested in politics while in high school. And what better way to keep the kids glued to the TV, during debates and election results?

As it is now, they are unimformed, uninterested and not voting. (a problem I would like to see solved)

Right. And wouldnt, actual, hands on involvment, (even at the most minimum level) be the best learning tool? (kind of like: on the job training)
I am talking hands on involvement.
Turning up on poling day is actually the least complicated aspect of being an informed voter. What people need hands on training in is accessing how their democracy works in various aspects. Having for instance to follow, document and give an explanatory report on particular real-life examples of various aspects of the 'system at work' is hands-on.
What we need to give people to enable them to be informed voters, are a set of generalised tools to unscramble the workings of governance in real life .
Actually picking a side and turning up come voting day is the easy bit, picking sides is hardly something most people need to be taught.

No. Not the actual, casting of a balot. Im suggesting that it would get kids to "want" to pay more attention to the election process and to "want" to get involved at a more tangable level after high school.
That's not very good reasoning. We know that the more informed people are about things the more they become 'invested' in them. We also know that many adults who are elligable to vote are apathetic about the issue, I dont see that it would enthuse high schoolers more than adults.
Further interest by itself is useless if it is based on 'make my team win' rather than informed and reasoned choice. If they have the disposition to be interested, they'll become interested in the process of learning. If they dont become interested as a result of actually understanding the system they are potential participants in, then they clearly dont have the inclination to be informed voters, and frankly encouraging them to vote and 'try to make their team win' just for the fun of having a team in the match is part of the current problem, not an element of its solution.

Maybe if the voting age were lowered to 16 or 17 for local elections, perhaps with a necessary test on government and how elections work, then maybe more teenagers would become involved.


Say! Thats an exellent idea! Pass the test or you cant vote! (a good reason to get an otherwise, lazy or uninvolved kid to maybe, actually do some homework) Maybe just lowering it to 17 would be enough. It WOULD get more high school kids to watch more debates and results and maybe even watch a little C-Span from time to time I think.
I like it! Well done!

Say! Thats an exellent idea! Pass the test or you cant vote! (a good reason to get an otherwise, lazy or uninvolved kid to maybe, actually do some homework) Maybe just lowering it to 17 would be enough. It WOULD get more high school kids to watch more debates and results and maybe even watch a little C-Span from time to time I think.
I like it! Well done!

Thanks. I personally can't wait to exercise my right and duty to vote at the first opportunity I get, which will be in 2008.

Also, in my area, you can get a learner's permit to drive at fifteen if you pass a test (which, as I learned, requires studying, as they sometimes ask questions about things you will never have to deal with in your own state), and then you can drive as long as an adult twenty-one years or older is in the seat next to you and supervising you. That way you can get a feeling for driving and understand it better for a year until you can drive on your own. Also, any one who wants to get permit must attend a three-hour course (which they can take when they are at least 14 and 3/4 years old) on traffic safety and how various drugs and alcohol affect driving.

If students are given the opportunity to take a course and/or a test to prepare them to vote, and in return earn the right to vote a year earlier in local elections than they would have been able to do, then I believe that many students would seize the opportunity and become more involved and interested. I know I would.

Thanks. I personally can't wait to exercise my right and duty to vote at the first opportunity I get, which will be in 2008.


Chandelier is AWSOME!!! http://www.postsmile.com/img/emotions/136.gif http://www.postsmile.com/img/emotions/223.gif

Chandelier is AWSOME!!! http://www.postsmile.com/img/emotions/136.gif http://www.postsmile.com/img/emotions/223.gif

Thank you.http://forums.peerimpact.com/pi-forums/images/smilies/blushing.gif


Of course, it may run in my family or something. My younger brothers also can hardly wait to vote, and they won't have the oppurtunity until 2010. We have somewhat similar views on some issues to each other and to our parents (who are Democrats), but we disagree on several other issues and debate about them sometimes.

What I think is funny is that in middle school, many people told me that I should be the President someday. That's a scary idea.:eek:

:)

Thank you.http://forums.peerimpact.com/pi-forums/images/smilies/blushing.gif


Of course, it may run in my family or something. My younger brothers also can hardly wait to vote, and they won't have the oppurtunity until 2010. We have somewhat similar views on some issues to each other and to our parents (who are Democrats), but we disagree on several other issues and debate about them sometimes.

What I think is funny is that in middle school, many people told me that I should be the President someday. That's a scary idea.:eek:

:)

Cool! Maybe you and your brothers can convince others to register at 18.
I believe that more young people taking an interest in politics will lead to better polititians in the future. (if 2 heads are better that 1 then millions more would be better than what we have now!) ;)

Cool! Maybe you and your brothers can convince others to register at 18.
I believe that more young people taking an interest in politics will lead to better polititians in the future. (if 2 heads are better that 1 then millions more would be better than what we have now!) ;)

Yeah, maybe. It probably would.

I wouldn't know

That makes much more sense.

That already happens in some places.

IMO, the voting age should be dropped to 16 or so. 16 year olds are old enough to drop out, get tried as adults, drive cars, have sex, be gainfully employed, etc, and are for the most part of barely distinguishable physical and mental maturity from 18 year olds.

Plus, then you get to get them to register while still in high school.

No, high schoolers are still too young and impressionable. Plus, most of them just follow their parents politics instead of making their own decision, or they fall into the peer pressure from friends, or they're too focused on a single issue.

I think 18 is really the youngest age that a person can vote.

Yes, since we all know how mature EVERYONE is. I don't think most 30 year olds should be allowed to vote, or 40 year olds, or 50 year olds...let's face it. Most people are idiots.

Yes, since we all know how mature EVERYONE is. I don't think most 30 year olds should be allowed to vote, or 40 year olds, or 50 year olds...let's face it. Most people are idiots.

LoL Good one! :D

Kids are getting smarter every year. They rule the internet. If they ever went Children of the Corn on us we'd be toast. :eek:

One other point to add to my OP: If a tangable vote were to happen in high schools, and peek the interests of the students,(that results in them learning something new to them) there might less guns brought to school. (and IMO, practically ANYTHING is worth a try in that regard!)