NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been thinking about this alot, and I've been wondering what will it take for a 3rd party to actually make some gains in the House, the Senate, and possibly state congress and governorship? What does a party like the Libertarian party have to do in order to actually pull some sway in our government? Does anyone know?

The indenependants should be allow to participate in the TV debates. (that's really their only chance)

I've been thinking about this alot, and I've been wondering what will it take for a 3rd party to actually make some gains in the House, the Senate, and possibly state congress and governorship? What does a party like the Libertarian party have to do in order to actually pull some sway in our government? Does anyone know?

nationwide organization.

I've been thinking about this alot, and I've been wondering what will it take for a 3rd party to actually make some gains in the House, the Senate, and possibly state congress and governorship? What does a party like the Libertarian party have to do in order to actually pull some sway in our government? Does anyone know?

They need to stop letting Dems and Repubs run in local races unopposed.

3rd parties seem to think they can establish themselves from the top down (National offices down to local offices)...when their only real chance is to do the opposite.

Have you ever seen a 3rd party candidate for state senate, attorney general, or any other local/state offices? I know I haven't.

They're going about it ass-backwards. Once some local candiates have firmly established their party platforms in the minds of voters, they'll be much more likely to vote for 3rd party candidates in more important elections (House, Senate, Governors, etc.)

Give me a Libertarian mayor of Milwaukee over a Libertarian Wisconsin Senator any day!

What will it take to get a 3rd party some serious power?
A new electoral system, for instance MMP.

one or more constitutional amendments

They need to stop letting Dems and Repubs run in local races unopposed.

3rd parties seem to think they can establish themselves from the top down (National offices down to local offices)...when their only real chance is to do the opposite.

Have you ever seen a 3rd party candidate for state senate, attorney general, or any other local/state offices? I know I haven't.

They're going about it ass-backwards. Once some local candiates have firmly established their party platforms in the minds of voters, they'll be much more likely to vote for 3rd party candidates in more important elections (House, Senate, Governors, etc.)

Give me a Libertarian mayor of Milwaukee over a Libertarian Wisconsin Senator any day!

I agree. :)

Magic powers perhaps.

I agree. :)

I'm glad somebody does. :)

I wonder sometimes why 3rd parties even bother with national offices...they would be far more likely to garner support by focusing all their efforts in one or a few states at the state and local level.

It'd be cheaper too, which is another problem all 3rd parties face...of course, once you have a political base set up, fundraising becomes much easier.

Once you have a majority in the state legislatures of (for example) California, Oregon and Washington...THEN you run congressional candidates. If you capture a few seats in each house, THEN you run a presidential candidate.

What 3rd parties are doing today can be compared to what might have happened had the ancient Egyptians tried to build the pyramids upside-down....not much. :rolleyes:

They need to stop letting Dems and Repubs run in local races unopposed.

3rd parties seem to think they can establish themselves from the top down (National offices down to local offices)...when their only real chance is to do the opposite.

Have you ever seen a 3rd party candidate for state senate, attorney general, or any other local/state offices? I know I haven't.

They're going about it ass-backwards. Once some local candiates have firmly established their party platforms in the minds of voters, they'll be much more likely to vote for 3rd party candidates in more important elections (House, Senate, Governors, etc.)

Give me a Libertarian mayor of Milwaukee over a Libertarian Wisconsin Senator any day!

Agreed! Also, if they could win state and local offices, they could establish themselves as a party that's pragmatic enough to run the nation. Right now, whenever one of them runs for national office, they get painted as a whacko.

Revolution--and I'm not kidding.

Divine intervention.

What does a party like the Libertarian party have to do in order to actually pull some sway in our government? Does anyone know?

Get votes.

Also have proportional representation rather than winner takes all voting systems for electing representatives.

Either a system reform to propotional membership, or starting from the bottom up rather that just running for president.

I've been thinking about this alot, and I've been wondering what will it take for a 3rd party to actually make some gains in the House, the Senate, and possibly state congress and governorship? What does a party like the Libertarian party have to do in order to actually pull some sway in our government? Does anyone know?

Well, for starters, the Libertarian party might want to stop nominating clowns like Howard Stern for office.

A sane and moderate 3rd party.

A tank would be a good starting point.

About 50 million people to wake up this November 7th and decide, "Fuck it, I'm voting 3rd party." About 75 million if they don't all decide on the same 3rd party.

I've been thinking about this alot, and I've been wondering what will it take for a 3rd party to actually make some gains in the House, the Senate, and possibly state congress and governorship? What does a party like the Libertarian party have to do in order to actually pull some sway in our government? Does anyone know?

The American people need to get their head out of their ass and stop voting just Republican and Democrat.

They need to stop letting Dems and Repubs run in local races unopposed.

3rd parties seem to think they can establish themselves from the top down (National offices down to local offices)...when their only real chance is to do the opposite.

Have you ever seen a 3rd party candidate for state senate, attorney general, or any other local/state offices? I know I haven't.

They're going about it ass-backwards. Once some local candiates have firmly established their party platforms in the minds of voters, they'll be much more likely to vote for 3rd party candidates in more important elections (House, Senate, Governors, etc.)

Give me a Libertarian mayor of Milwaukee over a Libertarian Wisconsin Senator any day!


You're right, Delator, but you don't seem to realize WHY they go for the big races.
Any three people can get together and declare themselves a political party. But to qualify for federal funding (which many of these small parties rely upon to survive) you must field party candidates in a certain number of federal positions, plus a certain number of state positions in a certain number os states (I don't know the exact numbers).
But running for those big positions drains the party coffers to the point they can't afford to support their small position candidates - which means their small position candidates have to be self funding. Needless to say, the number of people willing to do that is small, and even fewer are willing to credit a party that gave them no assistance - they'd rather claim the proud tag of "independent".
What do we need to get a third party in power? A major social shake-up or disaster that makes both current parties look incompetent, OR a split in either the Dems or Reps. Otherwise, people will remain generally happy with their lives - which is not a recipe for radical change.

Proportional representation, and an end to gerrymandering.

I've been thinking about this alot, and I've been wondering what will it take for a 3rd party to actually make some gains in the House, the Senate, and possibly state congress and governorship? What does a party like the Libertarian party have to do in order to actually pull some sway in our government? Does anyone know?



They need to stop letting Dems and Repubs run in local races unopposed.

3rd parties seem to think they can establish themselves from the top down (National offices down to local offices)...when their only real chance is to do the opposite.

Have you ever seen a 3rd party candidate for state senate, attorney general, or any other local/state offices? I know I haven't.

They're going about it ass-backwards. Once some local candiates have firmly established their party platforms in the minds of voters, they'll be much more likely to vote for 3rd party candidates in more important elections (House, Senate, Governors, etc.)

Give me a Libertarian mayor of Milwaukee over a Libertarian Wisconsin Senator any day!
A new electoral system, for instance MMP.

one or more constitutional amendments

Also have proportional representation rather than winner takes all voting systems for electing representatives.
Either a system reform to propotional membership, or starting from the bottom up rather that just running for president.
You're right, Delator, but you don't seem to realize WHY they go for the big races.
Any three people can get together and declare themselves a political party. But to qualify for federal funding (which many of these small parties rely upon to survive) you must field party candidates in a certain number of federal positions, plus a certain number of state positions in a certain number os states (I don't know the exact numbers).
But running for those big positions drains the party coffers to the point they can't afford to support their small position candidates - which means their small position candidates have to be self funding. Needless to say, the number of people willing to do that is small, and even fewer are willing to credit a party that gave them no assistance - they'd rather claim the proud tag of "independent".


There're your answers, Wilgrove.

What do we need to get a third party in power? A major social shake-up or disaster that makes both current parties look incompetent, OR a split in either the Dems or Reps. Otherwise, people will remain generally happy with their lives - which is not a recipe for radical change.

And there we have the historically proven answer. Every single change in the two party system (first, second third, and fourth party systems) is associated with significant social changes.

Additionally, third parties serve as a corrrective to the two main parties in the US system. If you want an active multi party system, that'll have to change as well.

third party? has to be done from the ground up....and why just a 3rd party, why not a 4th, 5th and 6th party.....the politcal views and interest of any country's population are to vast to be properly represented by only 2 or 3 parties.....

I'm not really following this thread, but

What will it take to get a 3rd party some serious power? Free Sex and Beer

on the front page made me chuckle. :p

emancipation.
not escapism

I'm not really following this thread, but

What will it take to get a 3rd party some serious power? Free Sex and Beer

on the front page made me chuckle. :p

THE FREE SEX AND BEER PARTY! if that doesn't get voters out nothing will.

THE FREE SEX AND BEER PARTY! if that doesn't get voters out nothing will.

Actually, I remember seeing a study done several years ago that said the top-three eye-catching words in a newspaper headline were "free," "sex" and "money." Might wanna go with those. ;)

a different voting system-a system where a party gets seats according to how many votes it aquires, 5% of the vote rewards the party with 5% of the seats...in my country you can get 10% of the vote and get no representation which is unfair, we have 30million people which means 3 million(10%) people would get no voice in government that reflects their views..

Actually, I remember seeing a study done several years ago that said the top-three eye-catching words in a newspaper headline were "free," "sex" and "money." Might wanna go with those. ;)

many years ago there was a Free Love Party in Holland, I believe they did get one or two seats in government due to their electoral system...

proportional representation

yes a (small) step forward
ps:response to liberty EKB

There're your answers, Wilgrove.



And there we have the historically proven answer. Every single change in the two party system (first, second third, and fourth party systems) is associated with significant social changes.

Additionally, third parties serve as a corrrective to the two main parties in the US system. If you want an active multi party system, that'll have to change as well.

In other words, revolution. People have to be mad enough with the status quo that they're willing to make radical changes and challenge the powers-that-be, often with force. Make no mistake--the two parties in power, much as they squabble between themselves, are united on this one thing, that they and they alone should be the ones in power, and they'll do whatever is necessary to keep that the case.

In other words, revolution. People have to be mad enough with the status quo that they're willing to make radical changes and challenge the powers-that-be, often with force. Make no mistake--the two parties in power, much as they squabble between themselves, are united on this one thing, that they and they alone should be the ones in power, and they'll do whatever is necessary to keep that the case.

Sort of kind of, but not quite. Historically, third parties have served as a sort of release valve, by either replacing a non-functionally representative party or by forcing both parties to adequately address issues that they haven't.

Liberty EKB;11803049']proportional representationof course changing the system would require co-operation from the existing parties which will be nearly impossible to get since the system now in place keeps them in power... they are not willingly going to make room for other parties to get their foot in the door.

I've been thinking about this alot, and I've been wondering what will it take for a 3rd party to actually make some gains in the House, the Senate, and possibly state congress and governorship? What does a party like the Libertarian party have to do in order to actually pull some sway in our government? Does anyone know?

The end of the single-member plurality ("first-past-the-post") system, replaced by some form of proportional representation or similar system. So long as there can be only one winner per electoral district, the electoral system will naturally gravitate toward a two-party system, the "winner" who gets the office contested and the next largest "opposition" party. All others do not, and will not matter. Save for the rare occurance of the death of a major party, in which case a new party will move in to fill the vacuum and the two-party system continues like normal.

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_Law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_member_plurality

(Regarding the nature of wikipedia: for the love of all that is good, read the "references" section in the wikipedia articles. Both of the concepts linked above are well established concepts in the social/political sciences.)

Sort of kind of, but not quite. Historically, third parties have served as a sort of release valve, by either replacing a non-functionally representative party or by forcing both parties to adequately address issues that they haven't.we have 4 parties in government here and another is close to getting representation(Green-5% of the vote) our 3rd and 4th parties do influence government as the other two parties need to listen to them to stay in power or when their is a majority government the ruling party steals ideas from the third(socialist) party to stay in the majority....unfortunetly the 3rd party can get 20% of the vote but that never translates into 20% of the seats, denying a large portion of the population proper representation

Sort of kind of, but not quite. Historically, third parties have served as a sort of release valve, by either replacing a non-functionally representative party or by forcing both parties to adequately address issues that they haven't.

Third parties in the US have mostly been cults of personality, especially recently. Ross Perot, John Connaly, George Wallace, even back to Teddy Roosevelt. When the leader lost his lustre, the movements died. The ideas have been subsumed to a greater or lesser degrees by one of the major parties and then vanished.

Stop sucking.

The end of the single-member plurality ("first-past-the-post") system, replaced by some form of proportional representation or similar system. So long as there can be only one winner per electoral district, the electoral system will naturally gravitate toward a two-party system, the "winner" who gets the office contested and the next largest "opposition" party. All others do not, and will not matter. Save for the rare occurance of the death of a major party, in which case a new party will move in to fill the vacuum and the two-party system continues like normal.


that's the cause of many people never bothering to vote as their interests are never represented, if only Rep and dems every get elected and the voter happens to be neither why bother voting...

The only answer is "corruption". Lots and lots of corruption. Lashings of it in fact.

I've been thinking about this alot, and I've been wondering what will it take for a 3rd party to actually make some gains in the House, the Senate, and possibly state congress and governorship? What does a party like the Libertarian party have to do in order to actually pull some sway in our government? Does anyone know?

We'll first they need to pool together money, ALLOT of money, then start buying all sorts of weaponry. LOTS of weaponry, I'm taking tanks, self-propelled artillery, katyusha rocket batteries, carl gustav's, heavy machine guns, a SAM battery, AAA, assault rifels, 88mm, 120mm, 150mm, and 200mm cannons, and maybe some body armour, then buy a few b-52's and about 500 MiG 29's, then they need to arm masses amounts of people with it. Then they need to wage an all out war against Washington. Then, when the city is leveled and on fire, we can begin to have more than the 2 parties.