NationStates Jolt Archive

Meh. I don't think sex should be shoved down the throats of thirteen year-olds (no puns intended) nor do I think it should be treated as this wrong or dirty thing that they have to avoid until marriage lest they contract diseases that will kill them, everyone they know, the dinosaurs (again; sex is that bad, kiddos), and puppies/kittens. I don't like the idea of kids being encouraged to have sex, etc. You know they're going to, but don't egg them on for Flying Spaghetti Monster's sake.

There. I'm spent. *rolls over and goes to sleep*

Wow, I'm all out of sex puns. I didn't think that was possible. It's like running out of--wait, I'm going to keep this as PG as I can.

Well i don't assume having a living thing inside of you killed off, is exactly the most satisfying thing.

You win the Velco Moravian Prize for the most idiotical reply!

I have a flu right now. It means that i have lots of living things (viruses) inside of me...
I would be really happy and satisfied to have them killed off as fast as possible.
If you had tenia (an intestinal parassitic worm) wouldn't you be happy and satisfied to have it killed off? Skin parassites? Any viral or bacterial infection?

I'm not advocating abortion, but:

Statistics in Italy (my country) show a 50% reduction in the count of performed abortions since the treatment is legal due to psychologycal assistance in the fases preceding the actual interruption.
Same statistics show a drastic reduction in mortality rates of pregnant women since now the treatment is performed by competent professionals.
One of the things abstinence advocates use as an argument are unwanted pregnancyes. How does this go with your statement
And i know many people are not happy with having babies, but many to most are.
If the pregnancy is unwanted it is logical to assume that the parents are unhappy with it!
According to Freud the only unnatural sexual behaviour is abstinence.

You win the Velco Moravian Prize for the most idiotical reply!

I have a flu right now. It means that i have lots of living things (viruses) inside of me...
I would be really happy and satisfied to have them killed off as fast as possible.
If you had tenia (an intestinal parassitic worm) wouldn't you be happy and satisfied to have it killed off? Skin parassites? Any viral or bacterial infection?

I'm not advocating abortion, but:

Statistics in Italy (my country) show a 50% reduction in the count of performed abortions since the treatment is legal due to psychologycal assistance in the fases preceding the actual interruption.
Same statistics show a drastic reduction in mortality rates of pregnant women since now the treatment is performed by competent professionals.
One of the things abstinence advocates use as an argument are unwanted pregnancyes. How does this go with your statement

If the pregnancy is unwanted it is logical to assume that the parents are unhappy with it!
According to Freud the only unnatural sexual behaviour is abstinence.


Please...please tell me you're not comparing a pregnancy, even if unwanted, to harmful stomach parasites.

Please...please tell me you're not comparing a pregnancy, even if unwanted, to harmful stomach parasites.

They are essentially the same. While one is some variety of proto-human, and the other is far more invertabrateous*, both are an unwanted organism living off of you.

But hey slut, you should of used a meat thermometre.

*It's a word now.

They are essentially the same. While one is some variety of proto-human, and the other is far more invertabrateous*, both are an unwanted organism living off of you.

But hey slut, you should of used a meat thermometre.

*It's a word now.

For one, not all children or bacteria are unwanted. And very few creatures have a biological urge to get infected with bacteria.

as long as they abstain, it is 100% effective. the moment they start having sex, then they are no longer abstaining and they need to rely on the other forms of Safe Sex and Birth Control.


The problem is that schemes that focus on Abstinance tend to neglect teaching about other forms of birth control, meaning that if someone who has been taught only about abstinance has sex they will not ahve much idea about how to have safe-ish sex.

Abstinance itself does prevent pregnancy and STDs.

Abstinance-only education does not.

They are essentially the same. While one is some variety of proto-human, and the other is far more invertabrateous*, both are an unwanted organism living off of you.

But hey slut, you should of used a meat thermometre.

*It's a word now.

Wow.

I didn't think someone would sink so low as to compare the two. That speaks volumes of your character. In my opinion, it takes a sick individual to compare an unborn baby (even if it's unwanted by the mother) to a stomach parasite. Care to kindly tell me how an unborn child relates in terms of the harm that a parasite can do to someone? An infant inside the mother is not a parasite; it's a human being for fuck's sake.

I'm sorry for cursing, but that's downright disgusting. I'm not some raving pro-life maniac (I think the gov't should stay out of it), but....jeez...that's sick.

I didn't think someone would sink so low as to compare the two. That speaks volumes of your character. In my opinion, it takes a sick individual to compare an unborn baby (even if it's unwanted by the mother) to a stomach parasite. Care to kindly tell me how an unborn child relates in terms of the harm that a parasite can do to someone? An infant inside the mother is not a parasite; it's a human being for fuck's sake.


I think it is a pretty sick way of looking at it myself, and think there are much better arguements for allowing abortion. But if you consider the pain and discomfort a baby can cause the mother - particulary if she is unwilling. And in many cases a social stigma and prevention of following career paths and an incredible financial cost to the mother, and possible damage to her future chances of long term relationships then the *harm* is much greater than most stomach bugs outside of remote tropical areas.

well... isn't it?

even a combination of Condoms, pills, ... etc still leaves a what... 1%, less than 1%...

were there any cases of anyone getting pregnant or std's by abstaining...


I can only think of ONE case where a woman got pregnant, and she claims it was an act of GOD!... :D

Yes, it definitely is the best. That's what I was saying.

Condoms ftw
Not having sex some times in the month ftl, etc.

Hurrah for sex ed.

But not having sex ever in your whole lifetime beats both of those options in effectiveness.

I didn't think someone would sink so low as to compare the two. That speaks volumes of your character. In my opinion, it takes a sick individual to compare an unborn baby (even if it's unwanted by the mother) to a stomach parasite. Care to kindly tell me how an unborn child relates in terms of the harm that a parasite can do to someone? An infant inside the mother is not a parasite; it's a human being for fuck's sake.

Erm... Logically wrong on so many levels:

1. Children are pretty damn harmful, while they are in the womb. They interupt daily function, cause great discomfort and pain, destroy the physical state of the pregnant woman, and cause psychological strain.

2. A fetus is a potential human being, but it is not a human being.

3. Humanity does not prevent parasitic behavior.

Wow.

I didn't think someone would sink so low as to compare the two. That speaks volumes of your character. In my opinion, it takes a sick individual to compare an unborn baby (even if it's unwanted by the mother) to a stomach parasite. Care to kindly tell me how an unborn child relates in terms of the harm that a parasite can do to someone? An infant inside the mother is not a parasite; it's a human being for fuck's sake.

I'm sorry for cursing, but that's downright disgusting. I'm not some raving pro-life maniac (I think the gov't should stay out of it), but....jeez...that's sick.

I'd prefer not to think of it in such terms myself, but looking at the cold, hard biological facts it is true that the two are very similar.

As for the damage : The feotus takes its entire nurishment from the woman's body, leading in many cases to an undersupply of vitamins and minerals for the mother (there's a German proverb saying "Each child will cost the mother a tooth", which is basically derived from this pregnancy-induced form of malnourishment)
The woman is very likely to lose bladder control to some extend.
The woman is likely to suffer from considerable back pain towards the end of the pregnancy, along with reduced mobility.
The lymphatic system and the kidneys are likely to suffer to some extend.
In the first world, there's a 0.02% chance that the mother will die giving birth, in the developing world it's a 3.7% chance.

All in all, pregnancy IS a health risk for many, and the foetus does indeed behave like a parasite in the mother's body.

All of you comparing a fetus to a parasite sicken me.

All of you comparing a fetus to a parasite sicken me.

Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that there are striking similarities, though.

Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that there are striking similarities, though.


Blue whales and Smurfs are both blue. Doesn't make 'em the same thing.

Blue whales and Smurfs are both blue. Doesn't make 'em the same thing.

Blue whales are dark grey :rolleyes:

And nobody said that embryos are parasites. All that was said was that they behave like parasites.

For cripes sake...here I am reading is Absinthe the best and I am ready to post a " fuck YEAH " comment....and in reality its about sex crazed teens being told to put a plug in it ?

WTF is wrong with being a normal healthy human being with normal healthy urges..aside from STDS aids and pregnancy ? Just because sex can actually now kill you makes it a bad thing ?

I hate to say it but unless you know exactly who and how you are going to haave this " sex" stuff with and take the multiple precautions needed to survive without having your dingus fall off or worse....you may want to ummm abstain from certain types of activity...maaybe use the Clinton definition of sex...although THAT even carries risks ...one doesn't include prgnancy....there's always the famouse mutual masturbation thing...at one time called foreplay .

Hey its your body ..they should give you ALL the options and ALL the consequences and let you decide what to do...its not like thats NOT what your going to do any fucking way...it seems they need a course on " realistic expectations " More than you need this sex ed diguised as religion...although to be fair abstaining from sexual activity cant kill you or result in a baby and its the most surefire way to avoid being dead or riddled with STD's...but the US did not just reach the 300000000 population mark under this heath teachers advice ...


Ask them if its ok for you to go to Las Vegas where they check the hookers medically and give the the USDA sign of approval and see if it makes their head explode.

See certified no risk...or is it they just dont want you having sex until you get married ?

If their head explodes or they start stutering wildly and throwing holy water at you or just pin you down and bang a wooden stake through your heart or maybe just burn you at the stake before a football game ....its a plot by the fundementalist to deprive you of getting your nut .

On second thought just go ask your dad to buy you some rubbers...he needs to check his heart rate out anyway . Usually dads are cool with it..unless you happen to be a girl..then its " gotta get me a shotgun " time...but hey mom may be able to hook you up...after all its in her best interest that you stay safe right ?

But if MOm and dad are carrying Bibles and preaching and can speak in tongues at will..

I would say you are already screwed so its a moot point .

Blue whales are dark grey :rolleyes:

Bah! Technicality! :p

And nobody said that embryos are parasites. All that was said was that they behave like parasites.

They've been painted throughout the past couple of pages of this thread as the same thing.

They've been painted throughout the past couple of pages of this thread as the same thing.

It's polemics... it happens when a discussion gets polarised ;)

Please...please tell me you're not comparing a pregnancy, even if unwanted, to harmful stomach parasites.

Let's assume.

CASE 1

1.The uterus (womb) is part of sexual organs.
2.The foetus is a living human being itself, not a part of the pregnant woman.
3.The foetus lives inside the womb.
4.The woman doesn't want the foetus inside herself.
5.A sexual violence is use of sexual organs of someone by some other person, without the consent of the owner of the sexual organs - and the consent must be continuous throughout the sexual intercourse.

ergo, an unwanted foetus' presence in the sexual organs of the mother is a sort of sexual violence against the mother, and it has to be stopped.

CASE 2

1.The foetus is part of the pregnant woman's body, not a human being.
2.A person has the right of full access to his body, and to dispose thereof, if this doesn't harm any other human being.

ergo, the woman has the right to eliminate an unwanted part of his body, like the foetus.

Ethically simple.

No, neither does 'I'm ugly' or 'I'm socially inept'.

how about 'I intimidate all the girls with my uber skills?'

how about 'I intimidate all the girls with my uber skills?'

That;s the same as the other two.

*snip*

Both of your assumptions are repulsive.

I wonder if it EVER occured to these dolts that not only are they going to end up fucking up more kids mentally ..but BY not teaching them all the ALTERNATIVES they may be killing them .

But I'm an Old dude with two kids over 16 ...

What the fuck would I know ?

I wonder if it EVER occured to these dolts that not only are they going to end up fucking up more kids mentally ..but BY not teaching them all the ALTERNATIVES they may be killing them .

But I'm an Old dude with two kids over 16 ...

What the fuck would I know ?

You know good spam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ7YedEopp4).

That;s the same as the other two.

hahaha... dang :(

I think its weird that teens are sex. Like 30 years ago the average age of loss of verginity was 18 but now its 14. Maybe its just me, but if you think about, you wouldnt be wanting your kids to have sex when thier 14 or 15. A little bit of Abstinence never hurt nobody.

And why wouldn't I want them to enjoy their bodies anytime they like? I'll regard it as my responsibility as a parent to teach them about safe sex as soon as possible, and to repeat and repeat it until I can be sure they've really taken it in.
Personally, I regret that I didn't lose my virginity sooner, in my teens.

Both of your assumptions are repulsive.

And that's relevant how?

And that's relevant how?

Bah, fuck this. Clearly, this thread has been taken over by those who can equate a fetus with a fucking tapeworm. I'm not gonna waste my breath on this any further.

I can't believe people are for an all-abstinence sex-ed course. Simply put, people will fuck if they want to, and very few will be willed into not doing so by a sex-ed course like this. The best thing to do is to educate them on how to have sex, while remaining safe. Present all the options and responsibilities.

Bah, fuck this. Clearly, this thread has been taken over by those who can equate a fetus with a fucking tapeworm. I'm not gonna waste my breath on this any further.

Well, so far all you had to say about it was that you thought it disgusting.
It's duely noted, but not really relevant to the discussion, is it?

That;s the same as the other two.

With a side order of delusion. :D

2. A fetus is a potential human being, but it is not a human being.


And that's why I stay out of abortion debates. Because there's nothing more precious, more sacred--I mean that in a non-religious definition (if there is one?)--than human life. A human is worth more than anything else on this earth (that's also a knock at those who value animals more than people, but I won't get into that). I try to avoid abortion arguments because they're nasty little brawls against two sides that CANNOT compromise. One side, in my personal opinion, is more correct than the other. I'm not going to interject my opinions about this. But I am going to say that there's little convincing anyone can do of you or your ilk when you think of an unborn human as nothing more than a stomach parasite. That's...monstrous...and that's the only word I can think of to describe that.

Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that there are striking similarities, though.

Though I said I wouldn't get into this, I will add this: a harmful stomach parasite doesn't have the ability to become a productive member of society.

Wow.

I didn't think someone would sink so low as to compare the two. That speaks volumes of your character. In my opinion, it takes a sick individual to compare an unborn baby (even if it's unwanted by the mother) to a stomach parasite. Care to kindly tell me how an unborn child relates in terms of the harm that a parasite can do to someone? An infant inside the mother is not a parasite; it's a human being for fuck's sake.

Speaking from a biological point of view, a fetus is indeed a parasite.

Whether or not it is also a "human being" is a matter of debate. It is certainly a form of human life, but "being" or "personhood" are qualities that are defined philosophically rather than scientifically.

And in terms of the "harm" that is caused by pregnancy, here are some of the harmful effects that can occur as a result of pregnancy:

-Anemia
-Skin rashes or irregularities, including acne, linea nigra, and chloasma, among others
-Depression
-Nausea and vomitting
-Leg swelling
-Varicose veins in the legs and the area around the vaginal opening
-Hemorrhoids
-Heartburn and constipation
-Genital infections such as thrush (candida) and trichomoniasis
-Backache
-Fatigue
-Urinary tract infections
-Sleep loss
-Hypertension/hypotension
-Nutritional deficiencies (vitamin or mineral deficiency)

It is common for women to experience several of the above during a normal pregnancy. And this list does not include some of the rarer and more serious complications that may arrise, such as ectopic pregnancies or eclampsia. Remember also that it is many times more dangerous for a woman to carry a pregnancy to term than it is for her to abort the pregnancy.

Compare this list to the list of harmful effects of a standard tape worm infection of the intestine (an abdominal parasite I offer up for comparison):
-mild stomach upset or diarrhoea.
-unexplained weight loss
-anemia
-weakness
-fatigue
-malnutrition

With the exception of the unexplained weight loss, this list contains effects that are also seen with a normal human pregnancy.

I am not saying that this means human fetuses are equivalent to tape worms. I'm simply trying to point out that it is both accurate and reasonable to refer to a pre-viable fetus as a "parasite." It is one. Pregnancy also carries with it a great many of the exact same symptoms as other parasitic infections. The fact that women often choose to endure these symptoms willingly does not change the fact that they exist.

Frigging abortion debates.

A fetus is a human being.

Human beings have rights above animals and such because they have intelligence.

An early fetus has no intelligence.

It therefore has little or no rights.

*glares imperiously at everyone*

But I am going to say that there's little convincing anyone can do of you or your ilk when you think of an unborn human as nothing more than a stomach parasite. That's...monstrous...and that's the only word I can think of to describe that.
Perhaps they simply have a higher opinion of stomach parasites than you do?

Abstinence is the best policey, because a teenager is NOT emotionally ready to engage in sexual activity, and what happens when the girl gets pregnate? He's pretty much stuck with that for life, even if the girl get's an abortion. My mother works in the Newborn ICU, and she's seen babies come from people as young as 15. Please inform me of the benefits of a 15 year old having a baby?

Considering at 15 you body is still developing it's can't be good for you.


And on the topic of abortion, it amazes me the lengths we go to protect animals, but not an unborn fetus. An unoborn fetus is a human, it's a developing human. Do we call a small child "Not human" because their bodies are still developing slowly over time? I don't think so. A fetus can feel pain, that makes it human enough for me.

Abstinence is the best policey, because a teenager is NOT emotionally ready to engage in sexual activity, and what happens when the girl gets pregnate? He's pretty much stuck with that for life, even if the girl get's an abortion. My mother works in the Newborn ICU, and she's seen babies come from people as young as 15. Please inform me of the benefits of a 15 year old having a baby?

Considering at 15 you body is still developing it's can't be good for you.


And on the topic of abortion, it amazes me the lengths we go to protect animals, but not an unborn fetus. An unoborn fetus is a human, it's a developing human. Do we call a small child "Not human" because their bodies are still developing slowly over time? I don't think so. A fetus can feel pain, that makes it human enough for me.
Animals can feel pain too, that doesn't make them human...

And on the topic of abortion, it amazes me the lengths we go to protect animals, but not an unborn fetus. An unoborn fetus is a human, it's a developing human. Do we call a small child "Not human" because their bodies are still developing slowly over time? I don't think so. A fetus can feel pain, that makes it human enough for me.
Why does anybody think that the "humanity" of the fetus is remotely relavent to the subject of abortion?

A fully-grown, post-birth human being is not permitted to harvest my blood, tissues, or organs against my wishes. He cannot do so even if he will die unless he harvests them. He cannot do so even if I am the reason he will die without them (like if I shot him in the liver so he needs a transplant now). He cannot do so even if my actions were criminal.

No born, living human being has the right to inhabit my body or use my body to sustain their own. Why should a fetus have rights no human being has?

Though I said I wouldn't get into this, I will add this: a harmful stomach parasite doesn't have the ability to become a productive member of society.

Yes, and it also doesn't have the potential to become a serial murderer. So what?

As has already been stated by others, no one is saying "a fetus is exactly the same thing as a stomach parasite." They are simply saying that, biologically speaking, there are significant similarities.

Why does anybody think that the "humanity" of the fetus is remotely relavent to the subject of abortion?

A fully-grown, post-birth human being is not permitted to harvest my blood, tissues, or organs against my wishes. He cannot do so even if he will die unless he harvests them. He cannot do so even if I am the reason he will die without them (like if I shot him in the liver so he needs a transplant now). He cannot do so even if my actions were criminal.

No born, living human being has the right to inhabit my body or use my body to sustain their own. Why should a fetus have rights no human being has?
I'm pro-abortion, but personally I think this is something that should be allowed. The irony is music to my ears.

If you have to put a little rubber bag over your dick before you fuck, you shouldn't be fucking at all.

Erm... Logically wrong on so many levels:
2. A fetus is a potential human being, but it is not a human being.


So if your mother aborted you as a "fetus" at 2 weeks, would you be here today?

Last week I started health class, and so far it's sucked balls because on every other page of the first chapter I've read "abstinence from sexual activity will make you a responsible teen" or some other BS like that.

I've rolled my eyes at all of it (after all, it is North Carolina :rolleyes:). However, it got me thinking: How many people really abstain? And what if someone doesn't want to abstain?:headbang:

Anyone whos ever had sex and isnt deluded by religion, agrees with you, it is totall BS.

well FYI a fetus is not a parasite. There is a diffrence between a Tape Worm and a potential human being. A parsite is something that suck your own life to sustain it's own. A fetus shares and takes concentrated ammounts to sustain it's life. Don't forget you were once one your self, taking nutrients to sustain your life, doing the very same things you call "criminal," unless you are an alien, which I doubt.

well FYI a fetus is not a parasite. There is a diffrence between a Tape Worm and a potential human being. A parsite is something that suck your own life to sustain it's own. A fetus shares and takes concentrated ammounts to sustain it's life. Don't forget you were once one your self, taking nutrients to sustain your life, doing the very same things you call "criminal," unless you are an alien, which I doubt.
What nutrients does the fetus "share" with the mother?

So if your mother aborted you as a "fetus" at 2 weeks, would you be here today?
And your point would be...

And your point would be...

That a fetus is very much alive and very much human.

Vitamins, minerals, proteins, all your basics.

If you have to put a little rubber bag over your dick before you fuck, you shouldn't be fucking at all.

And here we have an example of Homo sapiens nihilus, which is unique among animals in that it is completely incapable of understanding that it could ever suffer any harm. Its lifespan is far shorter than other members of its genus, often rarely surviving past the age of thirty.

rape is the excption to all the rules. education about safe sex also fails if the raper forces his/her victim without reguard for safe sex.
But proper sex ed can help prepare young people for having sex, even if they don't intend to -- you know, just in case. Remember, sex ed about STDs and pregnancy isn't just about prevention. It's also about treatment and other options.

now, all the ways a person will loose their resolve is not a failure of Abstinence, but the person's resolve. you cannot blame that on abstince itself. just like if a couple decides to forgo a condom, it's not the education of Safe Sex that is at fault but the choices the couple makes.
Well, considering that the only thing that causes abstinence to happen and the only thing that can keep it going is the individual person's resolve, I think you're brushing off resolve-failure rather lightly, don't you?

By the way, why are you capitalizing "Abstinence"? Is it a person's name, or is it the title of a book that I didn't know we were discussing?

Abstinence is not some thing that can be successful even if its followers fail. Without the resolve to abstain, there is no abstinence, so to say that a person's failure to abstain is not a failure of abstinence is nonsensical.

and yes, I do know that there are diseases that are transmitted by other means besides sex. however, for those that ARE transmitted by Sex, Abstinence will prove 100% effective against them. you can only expect a condom to stop only the diseases from spreading through Sexual Contact. the same with Abstinence.
Excuse me, but didn't you earlier shock my delicate sensibilities by suggesting that abstinence somehow teaches kids how to get off on each other in other ways? If you are not promoting a life of lonely internet porn surfing, then I presume you must be thinking of the ever-popular "everything but" approach, and that leaves plenty of avenues for germ exchanges.

Telling kids that they can be safe from disease as long as they don't have sex, when some of them seem to think that anything short of actual fucking isn't sex and that you can engage in oral sex and still be abstaining from real sex, doesn't seem like it's going to achieve that 100% protection rate you claim.

as long as they abstain, it is 100% effective. the moment they start having sex, then they are no longer abstaining and they need to rely on the other forms of Safe Sex and Birth Control.

Abstinence isn't something that you can stop and start, no it's something that you have to keep doing. and as long as you abstain, it's 100% effective.
I mention above the problem with this whole approach, which is that, in practice, the definitions of "abstain" and "sex" seem to get pretty fuzzy, and the more abstinence is promoted, the fuzzier the definitions seem to get.

For one, not all children or bacteria are unwanted.
No, but the unwanted ones are.

And very few creatures have a biological urge to get infected with bacteria.
Oh, really? Ever eat yoghurt? Ever eat cheese? All creatures maintain beneficial symbiotic relations with bacteria, and we do go out of our way to take them into our bodies, and we are happy when we have them, just like a WANTED pregnancy.

Wow, it's amazing how that works, isn't it? We want things we want and don't want things we don't want. Ain't the universe astonishing?

No, but the unwanted ones are.


Oh, really? Ever eat yoghurt? Ever eat cheese? All creatures maintain beneficial symbiotic relations with bacteria, and we do go out of our way to take them into our bodies, and we are happy when we have them, just like a WANTED pregnancy.

Wow, it's amazing how that works, isn't it? We want things we want and don't want things we don't want. Ain't the universe astonishing?

I don't eat cheese or yogurt.

Well, I eat cheese like once very three months.

Shove it pal.

Abstinence is the best policey, because a teenager is NOT emotionally ready to engage in sexual activity, and what happens when the girl gets pregnate? He's pretty much stuck with that for life, even if the girl get's an abortion. My mother works in the Newborn ICU, and she's seen babies come from people as young as 15. Please inform me of the benefits of a 15 year old having a baby?

Considering at 15 you body is still developing it's can't be good for you.


And on the topic of abortion, it amazes me the lengths we go to protect animals, but not an unborn fetus. An unoborn fetus is a human, it's a developing human. Do we call a small child "Not human" because their bodies are still developing slowly over time? I don't think so. A fetus can feel pain, that makes it human enough for me.

As young as 15? Well your Mom obviously hasn't worked there for long. I knew a 13 year old who got pregnant. Then she miscarried and the universe kinda worked itself out.

While we are at it. Tell us the benifits that are exclusive to having a baby at 25-30 or whatever, to that of a 15 year old having a baby.

While we are at it. Tell us the benifits that are exclusive to having a baby at 25-30 or whatever, to that of a 15 year old having a baby.
For starters, your entire fucking life isn't ruined forever. Also, 15 year-olds are more likely to experience complications.

For starters, your entire fucking life isn't ruined forever. Also, 15 year-olds are more likely to experience complications.

That is a benifit? What about 45+ year old moms having kids. They suffer complications also. But I don't hear anyone complaining.

I don't eat cheese or yogurt.

Well, I eat cheese like once very three months.

Shove it pal.


Oh, so you DO eat cheese! *sits back in smug self-satisfaction* ;)

That is a benifit? What about 45+ year old moms having kids. They suffer complications also. But I don't hear anyone complaining.
Keep waiting. I'm only 43. If I get pregnant two years from now, you'll hear some complaining alright.

That is a benifit? What about 45+ year old moms having kids. They suffer complications also. But I don't hear anyone complaining.

Because their lives aren't ruined by it? Plus, the complications generally only effect them.

On an aside, how old are you, and are you a man or a woman?

I don't eat cheese or yogurt.

Well, I eat cheese like once very three months.

Shove it pal.


The mere fact that you remain alive is evidence that you have taken bacteria into your system. It might have been years ago, but if the colony inside you dies, you're going to get new ones some way or another.

Because their lives aren't ruined by it? Plus, the complications generally only effect them.

On an aside, how old are you, and are you a man or a woman?

I can guess you will probably use my age and gender as a tool to make me sound inferior. But, sense I don't care.

I'm 19 and male. Now go spin that in your favor. Don't worry I won't ask the same.

That is not a benifit. That is just a con. A benifit in a job is health insurance for example. Not less chance of a complication from cancer. Not a benifit. A benifit is a bonus. There is no negitive bonus.

Oh, so you DO eat cheese! *sits back in smug self-satisfaction* ;)

Oh no! He read in between the lines.

*Crys and cut himself in the corner while writing crappy journal entries in my blog.* :P

I can guess you will probably use my age and gender as a tool to make me sound inferior. But, sense I don't care.

I'm 19 and male. Now go spin that in your favor. Don't worry I won't ask the same.


19? Well, then you have no excuse for attempting the level of semantics that you're trying to use to get out of admitting that it's bad for a 15 year-old to have a baby. You don't get to do that until you've graduated college with a degree in English.

19? Well, then you have no excuse for attempting the level of semantics that you're trying to use to get out of admitting that it's bad for a 15 year-old to have a baby. You don't get to do that until you've graduated college with a degree in English.

I think it is terrible for kid at 15 to have a baby. I just wanted to know the benifits that were exclusive to an older person rather than a younger person. Because I think there are no benifits just problems.

Oh yes, and you are better than me because you are more articulate. Everyone says that just when they want to insult someone and not actually prove a point. I'm glad I have taken the high road two times now boss. Your actions speak lowder than words my friend.

And here we have an example of Homo sapiens nihilus, which is unique among animals in that it is completely incapable of understanding that it could ever suffer any harm. Its lifespan is far shorter than other members of its genus, often rarely surviving past the age of thirty.

You totally missed my point.

Try again.

The mere fact that you remain alive is evidence that you have taken bacteria into your system. It might have been years ago, but if the colony inside you dies, you're going to get new ones some way or another.

Would you stop?

You're making me all hungry.

Oh yes, and you are better than me because you are more articulate. Everyone says that just when they want to insult someone and not actually prove a point. I'm glad I have taken the high road two times now boss. Your actions speak lowder than words my friend.

It was a joke. I sure as hell don't have a degree in English, nor do I want one. The only people I was mocking were English majors.

You totally missed my point.

Try again.

Oh, I think I got your point more than you yourself did.

It was a joke. I sure as hell don't have a degree in English, nor do I want one. The only people I was mocking were English majors.

Boss. ;)

(Hint. I was joking.)

Oh, I think I got your point more than you yourself did.

What was it.

So if your mother aborted you as a "fetus" at 2 weeks, would you be here today?
Nope. Of course, if my father hadn't been pro-choice then my mother never would have had sex with him, and I never would have been conceived. ;)

Or I could always bring up my buddy Dan, who is only alive today because his mother had an abortion when she was young. If she hadn't, she never would have gone away to school, never would have met his father, and never would have conceived him.

Can you see why these kinds of arguments are pointless?

And your point would be...
That a fetus is very much alive and very much human.
Wait, your original statement was, "So if your mother aborted you as a "fetus" at 2 weeks, would you be here today?"

Then you are asked what the point of this statement is, and you jump to saying that "a fetus is very much alive and very much human"?

If my mother had chosen to have sex with my father at a different time of day on the day I was conceived, I almost certainly would never have been born because a different sperm would have encountered her egg (or no sperm at all, perhaps). Does that mean that my mother's egg and my father's sperm are each individual human beings?

For one, not all children or bacteria are unwanted. And very few creatures have a biological urge to get infected with bacteria.

No, but the unwanted ones are.

(Omissis...)

Damn Muravyets ;) I can defend myself.

SO:
Hehe, if you had dyssenteria or another intestinal problem you would have a hell of a biological urge to get infected again with lactobacillum casei and other bacteria that make your intestines work in the correct way.

That's why Danone is selling so much yoghurt and derivates...

One of the problems with abstinence is that its not 100% safe in practice.

Condom use when used properly is 97-98% effective.. problem is that in the heat of the moment they are rarely used 100% properly. Often things will have gone a little too far before one of the parties says.. "Oh wait the condom.." The condom gets used but the damage is done....

Same with abstinence.. people have sexual needs, they are built into us.. and if you have a partner that you feel passionately about things are bound to get heated at some point or another... sure you might pull yourselves up before you go all the way .. but it may have been far enough.

You can't have it both ways. You can't quote figures of 11% failure rates for condoms and 0% failure rates of abstinence. Its true if used 100% correctly then abstinence is 100% effective.. but in real life its probably a great deal less effective than that. Judging by the condom failure rates.. (an increase of about 8% failure rate for incorrect use) abstinence is probably only around 92% effective.

Reference to original post
First of all.
I'm surprised at how many people have read my post misinterpreting it.
I did not mean to compare a foetus with a parasyte (altough some similarityes exists if you do not believe in some God given superiority of man over beast).
I was just stating that Zilam's assertion (mirrored by the writings and toughts of many anti-abortion supporters) is idiotical because we do indeed have living beings inside us that we are happy to kill (diseases) or aquire (beneficial parasytes) other than a foetus.
As a side note I spoke about tenia because the effects on women organism are quite similar to those of a pregnancy if you exclude incontinence, spinal or RH induced problems (they come with the foetus, not the tenia).

The original post is also divided in two parts, maybe I should have written it more clearly. The second part is the one dealing with the effects of abortion on society and, strangely enough, nobody seems to argue with it.

For the cristians out there...
From rereading the Bible I am starting to be inclined to think that abstinence is close to onanism...
Should i start a thread?

Last week I started health class, and so far it's sucked balls because on every other page of the first chapter I've read "abstinence from sexual activity will make you a responsible teen" or some other BS like that.

I've rolled my eyes at all of it (after all, it is North Carolina :rolleyes:). However, it got me thinking: How many people really abstain? And what if someone doesn't want to abstain?:headbang:

I intended to answer to this post first... Bah, better late than never, right?


If you do not want to abtain visit a physician first, he can inform you on the right contraceptive techniques for you. I suggest a gynecologist if you are a woman, an andrologist if you are a man and definitively a dermatologist in both cases (they usually know the most about STDs).
Do not rely on informations from blogs, forums, the internet or magazines (unless you usually read The Lancet or another medical journal ;)) they are usually biased and sometimes plain wrong. Get your information first hand from professionals.
Use your head. No matter what others say only one thing can make you a responsible person, and that is knowing the consecuences of your actions and accepting them. Inaction is not responsible, it is just plain avoidance of responsibility.


:D I see myself lecturing my kids...
Er... Actually the last point I already use with them :eek: