NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm glad that I live in a country where women are treated like humans, not beasts, where homosexuals and other minority groups of society are tolerated and allowed to live in peace, where I can say and think whatever I well want, and where the government is accountable to the people. I'm also glad that I live in a country with a strong military, with a great economy, with opportunity for all, in a country where quality education is provided, a country where physics, mathematics, and social studies are taught, instead of religious books, a country where I can go to sleep knowing that I will be safe from criminals...

I guess I'm Proud To Be An Infidel.

Does anyone here share my sentiments?

Damn straight.

so what country are you comparing too? and what country are you from again?

And no I don’t really care

Damn straight.

Oh, damn, I just realized I should have included a poll.:(

I'm proud to 'hate America,' or so I've been told.

so what country are you comparing too? and what country are you from again?

And no I don’t really care

The USA. I'm comparing my country to places like Africa and the mid east. Yes, I'm a patriotic American Idiot.

Hey, you asked.

I'm proud to 'hate America,' or so I've been told.

Who told you that, may I ask?

Who told you that, may I ask?

My wonderful teachers of course.

Are you proud to ask rhetorical questions?

I'm glad that I live in a country where women are treated like humans, not beasts, where homosexuals and other minority groups of society are tolerated and allowed to live in peace, where I can say and think whatever I well want, and where the government is accountable to the people. I'm also glad that I live in a country with a strong military, with a great economy, with opportunity for all, in a country where quality education is provided, a country where physics, mathematics, and social studies are taught, instead of religious books, a country where I can go to sleep knowing that I will be safe from criminals...

I guess I'm Proud To Be An Infidel.

Does anyone here share my sentiments?
Are you talking about the USA? Because it sure sounds a lot more like a number of European countries to me.

Oh, damn, I just realized I should have included a poll.:(

go to thread tools right above your op and select add poll

My wonderful teachers of course.

in what context do they say you hate America?

The USA. I'm comparing my country to places like Africa and the mid east. Yes, I'm a patriotic American Idiot.

so your comparing a (poor attempt) 1st world industrial country with 3rd world war ridden countries hmmm why not compare America to lets say Turkey (though still not a fair comparison) now which one runs a human rights abusing camp

Also like Fleckenstein said (I hope I got the gist) a frightening number of Americans refer to people with words that are meant to mean similar offence like “traitor” to people who may disagree with the war on terror and the laws that get passed about it

Are you talking about the USA? Because it sure sounds a lot more like a number of European countries to me.

The USA, and most European nations in general. I guess you could chalk up Japan, Canada, and South Korea up there, too.

Are you talking about the USA? Because it sure sounds a lot more like a number of European countries to me.

apart from the strong military it would be a country like Greece but I noticed by all the dick waving that only an ignorant American could of typed it

in what context do they say you hate America?

I think gov't should back out of personal lives, and I take heart in the line from Roe v. Wade, "We [SCOTUS] need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, is not in a position to speculate as to the answer."

EDIT: Oops, forgot that I'm a crafty pinko Liberal. That's important, I think.

I'm glad that I live in a country where women are treated like humans, not beasts, where homosexuals and other minority groups of society are tolerated and allowed to live in peace, where I can say and think whatever I well want, and where the government is accountable to the people. I'm also glad that I live in a country with a strong military, with a great economy, with opportunity for all, in a country where quality education is provided, a country where physics, mathematics, and social studies are taught, instead of religious books, a country where I can go to sleep knowing that I will be safe from criminals...

I guess I'm Proud To Be An Infidel.

Does anyone here share my sentiments?

You live in Sweden?

The USA, and most European nations in general. I guess you could chalk up Japan, Canada, and South Korea up there, too.

America provides good education for all and tolerates minorities :confused:

are you sure your not just naming your allies?

Also like Fleckenstein said (I hope I got the gist) a frightening number of Americans refer to people with words that are meant to mean similar offence like “traitor” to people who may disagree with the war on terror and the laws that get passed about it

*claps*

so your comparing a (poor attempt) 1st world industrial country with 3rd world war ridden countries hmmm why not compare America to lets say Turkey (though still not a fair comparison) now which one runs a human rights abusing camp

Also like Fleckenstein said (I hope I got the gist) a frightening number of Americans refer to people with words that are meant to mean similar offence like “traitor” to people who may disagree with the war on terror and the laws that get passed about it

1) I'm no expert on Turkey, but I don't imagine they like homosexuals that much. Or Jews. Or Westerners in general. Why not take a walk down Istanbul in a yarmulke and see what happens?

The detainees at G-Bay have it better than you think. They get 3 square meals a day, Korans, and clean cells. Of course, they get tortured too, which I imagine isn't too pleasant, but when you shoot at American soldiers and don't wear a uniform of any nation's military forces, you're an illegal combatant.

2) I've never heard anyone who disagrees with Bush called a traitor. Certainly someone could be called frivolous, or an appeaser, but that's a far cry from traitor.

Indeed, I am proud to be an infidel.


Then again, this is because I am an infidel from any religion you care to name.

America provides good education for all and tolerates minorities :confused:

are you sure your not just naming your allies?

Compared to most industralized nations, high school and middle school education isn't that great, but compared to the world in general, it's brilliant.

Yes, we do tolerate minorities.

The detainees at G-Bay have it better than you think. They get 3 square meals a day, Korans, and clean cells. Of course, they get tortured too, which I imagine isn't too pleasant, but when you allegedly shoot at American soldiers and don't wear a uniform of any nation's military forces, you're an illegal combatant.

Better.





And having allegedly shot at American soldiers means you should be denied every right to fair trial and justice that your country supposedly stands for?

Better.





And having allegedly shot at American soldiers means you should be denied every right to fair trial and justice that your country supposedly stands for?

No, it means you should be tried in a military court. I don't know what took Bush so long to get around to this.

Keep in mind, there are only some 500 detainees at G-Bay. That's hardly the whole jihadist movement. I'd imagine these individuals have some important information to divulge, otherwise the US government wouldn't go through the headache of keeping them there and all the domestic political squabbling that goes with it.

I'm not proud to be an infidel, but I do feel damn lucky that I was born in a 1st world country. I am grateful to the people in my family who helped create the country and situation that I live in today.

1) I'm no expert on Turkey, but I don't imagine they like homosexuals that much. Or Jews. Or Westerners in general. Why not take a walk down Istanbul in a yarmulke and see what happens?

the government still bans homosexuals from the military so I'd say there in about the 70's on that (mind you they still have military service) other than that there fine as for Jews and westerners they are treated well I got a friend who visits all the time and gets plastered on drink wearing skimpy clothes (Turkey is kind of a middle east west mix because of all the tourism)

The detainees at G-Bay have it better than you think. They get 3 square meals a day, Korans, and clean cells. Of course, they get tortured too, which I imagine isn't too pleasant, but when you shoot at American soldiers and don't wear a uniform of any nation's military forces, you're an illegal combatant.

I was thinking people get trials before they go to be punished at least in China they have show trials

2) I've never heard anyone who disagrees with Bush called a traitor. Certainly someone could be called frivolous, or an appeaser, but that's a far cry from traitor.

http://www.americantraitor.us/filmtraitors.html

No, it means you should be tried in a military court. I don't know what took Bush so long to get around to this.

Sounds awfly like "liberty and justice for all, unless we decide we don't like the look of you or, you know, can't be arsed giving you the fair trial you deserve. And, of course, this doesn't at all contradict the ideals we pretend to stand for in order to justify the invasion and occupation of your country."

Compared to most industralized nations, high school and middle school education isn't that great, but compared to the world in general, it's brilliant.

so your again comparing America to piss poor countries if America is truly such a world leader you would think its citizens education would be top quality

Yes, we do tolerate minorities.

gay marriage?

the government still bans homosexuals from the military so I'd say there in about the 70's on that (mind you they still have military service) other than that there fine as for Jews and westerners they are treated well I got a friend who visits all the time and gets plastered on drink wearing skimpy clothes (Turkey is kind of a middle east west mix because of all the tourism)
I was thinking people get trials before they go to be punished at least in China they have show trials
http://www.americantraitor.us/filmtraitors.html

I disagree about not allowing gays to serve, or to marry. That's immoral and unconstitutional, and it's one of the things that frustrate me about domestic American politics. However, they are tolerated in the sense that a homosexual man can "act" homosexual pretty much anywhere in America, and expect not to be killed or hurt.

That's what I was saying. Suspected terrorists should get a fair trial before a military court before they are punished.

I'm not proud to be an infidel, but I do feel damn lucky that I was born in a 1st world country. I am grateful to the people in my family who helped create the country and situation that I live in today.

That's the whole point of this thread. I agree with you, bro.

Im no more proud of being an infidel than I am of being right handed or having brown hair. It is just a classification of me, a box some people put me into to identify me as one of these not one of those. I did nothing at all to obtain my infidel status and would have to do much I find distasteful to lose it. Why should I be proud of it?

Keep in mind, there are only some 500 detainees at G-Bay. That's hardly the whole jihadist movement. I'd imagine these individuals have some important information to divulge, otherwise the US government wouldn't go through the headache of keeping them there and all the domestic political squabbling that goes with it.

so what your saying is 'trust the government'?

That's what I was saying. Suspected terrorists should get a fair trial before a military court before they are punished.

Replace "military court" with "regular jury court" and you're some way there.

In addition, you give the impression that punishment is a foregone conclusion.

You know if Bush and the neo-cons have their way this country wont be anything like that anymore. It'll be a theocracy just like in the middle east, but with even more police state like measures.:headbang:

Ehh, I'd rather be living in Canada right now.

so your again comparing America to piss poor countries if America is truly such a world leader you would think its citizens education would be top quality



gay marriage?

It is top quality...compared to piss poor countries. Seriously, though, our system has one important advantage-it gives losers a second chance. So if you were lazy in high school, and now you're 30 and your life is going nowhere, you can go to an inexpensive community college, learn something, and get ahead.

Gays are tolerated, but not completely respected, unfortunately. I think I addressed this in a previous post.

Ehh, I'd rather be living in Canada right now.

I'd rather live in the Philippines.

I'd rather live in the Philippines.

God save the Queen?

However, they are tolerated in the sense that a homosexual man can "act" homosexual pretty much anywhere in America, and expect not to be killed or hurt.

and this is different to where exactly? (keep in mind shows of heterosexuality are also banned in countries like China and various extreme religious nations)

That's what I was saying. Suspected terrorists should get a fair trial before a military court before they are punished.

Yet they don’t as you can see America is not so free after all

1)

and don't wear a uniform of any nation's military forces, you're an illegal combatant.



So, are you calling our founding fathers, and they're ragtag army illegal combatants?

Are you also calling, The french underground, the Polish and German resistance of ww2 illegal combatants?

What about all these "illegal combatants" we trained to fight the Vietnamese all over south east asia?

And the ones we trained to fight the Imperial Japanese,

If it wasnt for Guerrilas America would not ever excist.

Im proud to have never called anyone an infidel! (whilst living in a nation with every race on earth)
http://www.postsmile.com/img/emotions/236.gif

It is top quality...compared to piss poor countries. Seriously, though, our system has one important advantage-it gives losers a second chance. So if you were lazy in high school, and now you're 30 and your life is going nowhere, you can go to an inexpensive community college, learn something, and get ahead.

this is different to what 1st world country? also what makes you think someone who has no healthcare could possibly afford to pay for education?

so what your saying is 'trust the government'?

No, I'm saying don't be softs on jihadists, but don't go around imprisoning regular folks either, or at least imprison as few as possible(no legal system is perfect, some innocents are bound to get convicted).

Replace "military court" with "regular jury court" and you're some way there.

In addition, you give the impression that punishment is a foregone c

A "regular jury court" involved civilians. If you take aggressive action towards military personnel, and you are not in any other nation's military, you should be tried in a military court. Kinda makes sense, no?

On the other hand, if you are part of another nation's military, and you are captured for shooting American soldiers, you are a POW, and are protected under the Geneva Conventions from things like torture. Unless your nation didn't sign the Conventions, then it's open season.

Mind you, I'm no lawyer, but that's how it is from what I know.

I'm sorry, where do you live? 'Cause it sure as heck at America.

and this is different to where exactly? (keep in mind shows of heterosexuality are also banned in countries like China and various extreme religious nations)



Yet they don’t as you can see America is not so free after all

You said it yourself, in some countries, even heterosexual dispalys are prohibited. In America, gays aren't rounded up and killed, they are tolerated.

So the fact that we don't give a military trial to a select few number of potential terrorist means America is a dictatorship?

So, are you calling our founding fathers, and they're ragtag army illegal combatants?

Are you also calling, The french underground, the Polish and German resistance of ww2 illegal combatants?

What about all these "illegal combatants" we trained to fight the Vietnamese all over south east asia?

And the ones we trained to fight the Imperial Japanese,

If it wasnt for Guerrilas America would not ever excist.
The Geneva Conventions didn't exist during the Revolution.

The resistance movements were against a nation that didn't abide to or sign the Geneva Conventions, so the resistance movements were justified. Same goes for North Vietnam and Japan.

Besides, what I'm saying is that the people in G-Bay should get a military trial, not that they should be locked up indefinetely.

but don't go around imprisoning regular folks either, or at least imprison as few as possible

it doesn't matter whither you agree with it or not if your governments doing it your hardly living in la la land and thus unable to call your nation free as the old proverb goes “don’t throw rocks when you live in a glass house”

A "regular jury court" involved civilians. If you take aggressive action towards military personnel, and you are not in any other nation's military, you should be tried in a military court. Kinda makes sense, no?

Who’s to say they did they haven’t had a trial yet (and I do believe quite are few are just suspected of having terrorist links)

On the other hand, if you are part of another nation's military, and you are captured for shooting American soldiers, you are a POW, and are protected under the Geneva Conventions from things like torture. Unless your nation didn't sign the Conventions, then it's open season.

Like America who breaks it?

A "regular jury court" involved civilians. If you take aggressive action towards military personnel, and you are not in any other nation's military, you should be tried in a military court. Kinda makes sense, no?

The big question is "if".

Guilt should be decided by a jury court (although, I don't really see what jurisdiction American courts could possibly have over the mountains of Afghanistan, but that's American arrogance for you), with a sentence, if found guilty, being handed down by a military court.

Once we've established that they definitely did do something against the military personnel, then let the military deal with it.

But not before.

On the other hand, if you are part of another nation's military, and you are captured for shooting American soldiers, you are a POW, and are protected under the Geneva Conventions from things like torture. Unless your nation didn't sign the Conventions, then it's open season.

Yea, so much for "all men are created equal".

What we know it really means is "all men, born in countries that have decided to sign the Geneva Conventions, are created equal."

With the rest being, as you put it, 'open season'.

With every post you make the sheer level of irony inherent in your opening post increases exponentially; it now being at a level where I cannot possibly believe you were at all serious.

it doesn't matter whither you agree with it or not if your governments doing it your hardly living in la la land and thus unable to call your nation free as the old proverb goes “don’t throw rocks when you live in a glass house”
Who’s to say they did they haven’t had a trial yet (and I do believe quite are few are just suspected of having terrorist links)
Like America who breaks it?

A small abuse like that doesn't make America a slave nation. Within America, I have near-complete freedom.(no society is completely free, that would be chaos).

Aren't you saying they haven't had a trial?

Every nation has committed, and commits abuses. The litmust test between democracy and dictatorship is how great those abuses are. In America's case, they are miniscule. I sincerely hope you don't think America is a police state simply because gay aren't allowed to marry, or because people who are probably terrorists don't get a full trial.

You said it yourself, in some countries, even heterosexual dispalys are prohibited. In America, gays aren't rounded up and killed, they are tolerated.

so you have now moved on from comparing America to the 3rd world to comparing it to China

So the fact that we don't give a military trial to a select few number of potential terrorist means America is a dictatorship?

yes?

The resistance movements were against a nation that didn't abide to or sign the Geneva Conventions, so the resistance movements were justified. Same goes for North Vietnam and Japan.

the Geneva convention covers terrorism :confused:

Besides, what I'm saying is that the people in G-Bay should get a military trial, not that they should be locked up indefinetely.

and your point is that the government does it anyway?

The big question is "if".
Guilt should be decided by a jury court (although, I don't really see what jurisdiction American courts could possibly have over the mountains of Afghanistan, but that's American arrogance for you), with a sentence, if found guilty, being handed down by a military court.
Once we've established that they definitely did do something against the military personnel, then let the military deal with it.
But not before.

Yea, so much for "all men are created equal".
What we know it really means is "all men, born in countries that have decided to sign the Geneva Conventions, are created equal."
With the rest being, as you put it, 'open season'.
With every post you make the sheer level of irony inherent in your opening post increases exponentially; it now being at a level where I cannot possibly believe you were at all serious.

We agree on number 1.

If you know anything about American history, then you know that "all men are created equal" was a joke until the breakdown of segregation. Being equal, however, also means you are equally susceptible to punishment, if you are guilty.

I've tried to be reasonable and considerate of your feelings, and have thus restrained from making personal attacks on you, I would appreciate if you would do the same for me. If not, I suggest you and I end this debate. I'm sure Call to power has enough to say to keep me busy.

So, are you calling our founding fathers, and they're ragtag army illegal combatants?

Are you also calling, The french underground, the Polish and German resistance of ww2 illegal combatants?

What about all these "illegal combatants" we trained to fight the Vietnamese all over south east asia?

And the ones we trained to fight the Imperial Japanese,

If it wasnt for Guerrilas America would not ever excist.

Well, yeah. "Illegal combatant" isn't a moral judgment, it's a fact. Those fighters were all breaking the law and would have likely been killed or imprisoned by their captors.

yes?
?

Good grief, you are really a spiteful little man.

A small abuse like that doesn't make America a slave nation. Within America, I have near-complete freedom.(no society is completely free, that would be chaos).

yes it does...

Aren't you saying they haven't had a trial?

you misread that entirely its meant to come across as how would you know they committed any terrorist act at all when they haven’t even had a trail

Every nation has committed, and commits abuses.

Are you sure about that one? Have you just admitted that the American government isn’t a free beacon of democracy and freedom so what where you proud about again :p

or because people who are probably terrorists don't get a full trial.

“Probably” isn’t even proven yet since there aren’t any trials and what is to stop the government from breaking into your house now to torture you for terrorism?

so you have now moved on from comparing America to the 3rd world to comparing it to China
yes?
the Geneva convention covers terrorism :confused:
and your point is that the government does it anyway?

I didn't write the word "China" until just now. Not quite sure what you mean by this.

Think about it. If you live in America, you can say and think whatever you want, as long as it doesn't promote violence. You can criticize the government all you want. Hell, we won't even deport illegal immigrants. Do you seriously think America is a dictatorship because of a legal squabble involving a small number of potential terrorists?

As I was explaining, if a non-state actor attacks the armed forces of a state that abides by the Geneva Conventions, that non-state actor is not afforded any legal protection whatsoever.

We agree on number 1.

If you know anything about American history, then you know that "all men are created equal" was a joke until the breakdown of segregation. Being equal, however, also means you are equally susceptible to punishment, if you are guilty.

And now segregation has been 'broken down' you feel that "all men are created equal" should be further ignored?

I've tried to be reasonable and considerate of your feelings, and have thus restrained from making personal attacks on you, I would appreciate if you would do the same for me. If not, I suggest you and I end this debate. I'm sure Call to power has enough to say to keep me busy.

That was not a personal attack, that was barely anything; a comment on how the posts following your OP have completely contradicted it. Perhaps I'm used to a British, more aggressive, style of debate. Who knows.

You would know if I entered a personal attack.

yes it does...
you misread that entirely its meant to come across as how would you know they committed any terrorist act at all when they haven’t even had a trail
Are you sure about that one? Have you just admitted that the American government isn’t a free beacon of democracy and freedom so what where you proud about again :p
“Probably” isn’t even proven yet since there aren’t any trials and what is to stop the government from breaking into your house now to torture you for terrorism?

You said "who's to say they haven't had a trial yet" in a previous post.

You live in the UK, correct? You mean to tell me that there is absolutely no police brutality in your country, that your country doesn't have a long history of abuse both domestic and foreign? You don't think the UK is a dictatorship also, do you?

America is one of the few select countries of the world where you can say, think and criticize whatever you wish, without getting thrown in jail. That alone makes it a free society.

The detainees at G-Bay are foreigners, not Americans.

The detainees at G-Bay are foreigners, not Americans.

And in your fantastic country only Americans have rights?

I am equally proud of being classed as an Infidel by muslems and christians. I wish I could step back and let them go at each other in a war of mutual extinction.

And now segregation has been 'broken down' you feel that "all men are created equal" should be further ignored?



That was not a personal attack, that was barely anything; a comment on how the posts following your OP have completely contradicted it. Perhaps I'm used to a British, more aggressive, style of debate. Who knows.

You would know if I entered a personal attack.

If all men are created equal, doesn't that mean all men are equally deserving of punishment, provided they are guilty of a crime? What I'm saying is that we shouldn't give special treatment to people who abuse our soldiers. And we should have a military trial determine if they really are guilty, a process that has already been started, but should have been started much earlier.

It was a personal attack. I'm not stupid. I've clarified myself, not contradicted. America isn't perfect but overall it is a great and noble nation, that's the point I was trying to get across the whole time.

Good grief, you are really a spiteful little man.

I truly feel sorry for you if that’s what you think of any arguing with the government

I didn't write the word "China" until just now. Not quite sure what you mean by this.

I mentioned China as a country who practices the “no public affection whether straight or gay”

On that note don’t some American states still have sodomy as a crime?

Think about it. If you live in America, you can say and think whatever you want, as long as it doesn't promote violence. You can criticize the government all you want. Hell, we won't even deport illegal immigrants. Do you seriously think America is a dictatorship because of a legal squabble involving a small number of potential terrorists? .

Yes though ore of a totalitarian capitalism really

As I was explaining, if a non-state actor attacks the armed forces of a state that abides by the Geneva Conventions, that non-state actor is not afforded any legal protection whatsoever.

I suggest you read the Geneva convention because I don’t remember any of this (considering it was written over 60 years ago why would it?)


You live in the UK, correct? You mean to tell me that there is absolutely no police brutality in your country, that your country doesn't have a long history of abuse both domestic and foreign? You don't think the UK is a dictatorship also, do you?.

I’m not the one saying my country is spotless though am I (also yes Britain is a very dirty democracy and it does need changing but I never claim it to be clean)

America is one of the few select countries of the world where you can say, think and criticize whatever you wish, without getting thrown in jail. That alone makes it a free society. .

It does?

The detainees at G-Bay are foreigners, not Americans.

Are you sure about that?

it is a great and noble nation, that's the point I was trying to get across the whole time.

no nation is great and noble especially when you include circumstance

I'm glad that I live in a country where women are treated like humans, not beasts, where homosexuals and other minority groups of society are tolerated and allowed to live in peace, where I can say and think whatever I well want, and where the government is accountable to the people. I'm also glad that I live in a country with a strong military, with a great economy, with opportunity for all, in a country where quality education is provided, a country where physics, mathematics, and social studies are taught, instead of religious books, a country where I can go to sleep knowing that I will be safe from criminals...

I guess I'm Proud To Be An Infidel.

Does anyone here share my sentiments?
I'm proud that in one of my countries, women are not treated as though they can't make their own decisions.
I'm ashamed that in one of my countries this is not the case in some states, and that there are powers that push for stricter restrictions.
As for a country where I will be safe from criminals, never have I known someone that got shot or burglarized until I came here. I've known people that got beaten up for being of a darker skin color in Germany, but crime is worse over here, as far as I can judge.

I'm glad that I live in a country where women are treated like humans, not beasts, where homosexuals and other minority groups of society are tolerated and allowed to live in peace, where I can say and think whatever I well want, and where the government is accountable to the people. I'm also glad that I live in a country with a strong military, with a great economy, with opportunity for all, in a country where quality education is provided, a country where physics, mathematics, and social studies are taught, instead of religious books, a country where I can go to sleep knowing that I will be safe from criminals...

I guess I'm Proud To Be An Infidel.

Does anyone here share my sentiments?

You aren't an infidel. You're naive as all get-out, but an infidel? Please. You give infidels a bad name.

A small abuse like that doesn't make America a slave nation. Within America, I have near-complete freedom.(no society is completely free, that would be chaos). Are you allowed to go skinny-dipping in broad daylight on a public beach or lake? Are you allowed to drink alcohol in public? Are you allowed to skateboard in public areas? Could you get married to someone of the same sex, if you so chose? "Near complete freedom"?

Meh, Canada seems nicer.

Are you allowed to go skinny-dipping in broad daylight on a public beach or lake? Are you allowed to drink alcohol in public? Are you allowed to skateboard in public areas? Could you get married to someone of the same sex, if you so chose? "Near complete freedom"?

No, yes, yes (occasionally), no.

However, you also have to remember that Germany restricts freedom of speech in regard to the Holocaust or the Nazi era...nobody is totally free.

I do not like nationalist cheerleading. It makes me ashamed to be a human being.

I'm glad that I live in a country where women are treated like humans, not beasts, where homosexuals and other minority groups of society are tolerated and allowed to live in peace, where I can say and think whatever I well want, and where the government is accountable to the people. I'm also glad that I live in a country with a strong military, with a great economy, with opportunity for all, in a country where quality education is provided, a country where physics, mathematics, and social studies are taught, instead of religious books, a country where I can go to sleep knowing that I will be safe from criminals...

I guess I'm Proud To Be An Infidel.

Does anyone here share my sentiments?

And, of course, there is no way you could be glad about all that without making it a slam against someone else. Pfff. Figures. :rolleyes:

However, you also have to remember that Germany restricts freedom of speech in regard to the Holocaust or the Nazi era...nobody is totally free.

Our near-absolute tolerance for free speech is indeed a good thing, and exceptional.

That said, in many ways we still lack genuine political pluralism.

No, yes, yes (occasionally), no.

However, you also have to remember that Germany restricts freedom of speech in regard to the Holocaust or the Nazi era...nobody is totally free.

:rolleyes:

more like, "restricts freedom of speech in regard to denying the Holocaust or glorifying the Nazi era". It's a fair trade-off.

Besides, making Nazis feel at home isn't anywhere near as entertaining as skinny-dipping in broad daylight on a public beach or lake. Not even close.

Our near-absolute tolerance for free speech is indeed a good thing, and exceptional.

That said, in many ways we still lack genuine political pluralism.

What's so good about giving Nazis a soapbox, anyway?

No, yes, yes (occasionally), no.In Virginia, that would be no, no, occasionally, no.
However, you also have to remember that Germany restricts freedom of speech in regard to the Holocaust or the Nazi era...nobody is totally free.I'm not saying Germany is or isn't freer than the US. I'm debunking RTCs claim that the US is near to completely free.

:rolleyes:

more like, "restricts freedom of speech in regard to denying the Holocaust or glorifying the Nazi era". It's a fair trade-off.

I don't like the state telling me or anyone else what is or what isn't acceptable speech as long as it doesn't pose an immediate danger to other people. Even if the government is honest and enforces only that proscription, their freedom of speech is still curtailed.

Besides, making Nazis feel at home isn't anywhere near as entertaining as skinny-dipping in broad daylight on a public beach or lake. Not even close.

I don't know, they're fun to troll.

I'm proud I'm not an American citizen, because I could be if I wanted to. I'm proud I'm not foolish enough to think arbitrary arrests are an expression of freedom. I'm proud I don't think equality means men are payed more for doing the same thing as their female co-workers. I'm proud the natives don't believe quality education involves indoctrinating kids with an abrahamic religion. I'm proud my government isn't a two-party sham system where I'm limited to picking between candidates chosen for their business contacts. I'm poud I don't think inequality before the law is tolerance of minority groups.

I'm proud I'm just a fool, not a bloody great fool.

What's so good about giving Nazis a soapbox, anyway?

It means that if the state wants to ban another political ideology, there will be no precedent.

I no longer believe that they have a "right" to free speech, but I also know that some people think the same of anarcho-communist heretics, too, and I'm not willing to take the risk.

It means that if the state wants to ban another political ideology, there will be no precedent.

I no longer believe that they have a "right" to free speech, but I also know that some people think the same of anarcho-communist heretics, too, and I'm not willing to take the risk.Banning a political ideology and restricting the things people are allowed to say and display in public are two completely different things. You'd be surprised with how much shit the NPD and the like can get away with as long as they don't publicly deny a reality that is extremely hurtful to the rest of society, sport certain symbols, or engage in outright violence.

It means that if the state wants to ban another political ideology, there will be no precedent.

I no longer believe that they have a "right" to free speech, but I also know that some people think the same of anarcho-communist heretics, too, and I'm not willing to take the risk.

- I'll take the risk for 200, Alex.

*ding*

- It's the Daily Double! How much d'you want to wager, Dobbsy?

- I'll wager my freedom of speech, Alex.

- Here's your clue: ethnic cleansing!

- What is the motivation of Nazis and other garden-variety arseholes?

- Yes, it is indeed - well played.

*applause*

I declare Jihad on jihad !

I'm glad that I live in a country where women are treated like humans, not beasts, where homosexuals and other minority groups of society are tolerated and allowed to live in peace, where I can say and think whatever I well want, and where the government is accountable to the people. I'm also glad that I live in a country with a strong military, with a great economy, with opportunity for all, in a country where quality education is provided, a country where physics, mathematics, and social studies are taught, instead of religious books, a country where I can go to sleep knowing that I will be safe from criminals...

I guess I'm Proud To Be An Infidel.

Does anyone here share my sentiments?

If someone from France had written this (and the shoe DOES fit), we'd all be commenting on the general lack of social freedoms in the majority of Muslim nations, and the various problems associated with the issue.

Of course, an American wrote it, so we're discussing how shitty America is and how "ignorant" the thread-maker is. :rolleyes:

I'm glad that I live in a country where women are treated like humans, not beasts, where homosexuals and other minority groups of society are tolerated and allowed to live in peace, where I can say and think whatever I well want, and where the government is accountable to the people. I'm also glad that I live in a country with a strong military, with a great economy, with opportunity for all, in a country where quality education is provided, a country where physics, mathematics, and social studies are taught, instead of religious books, a country where I can go to sleep knowing that I will be safe from criminals...
Apparently you don't live my country, where the President thinks that a bunch of religiously based speculation deserves a place in our science classrooms right next to actual science...

And since when is the government accountable for shit? They do whatever they want, whenever they want, and bend us over and make us take it. It ain't as bad as the Mullahs, but it's far from good. The economy is good only for the rich and upper-middle class, everyone else is just getting poorer and poorer. And quality education? We're the richest country in the world, and we have one of the most inferior education systems of the industrialized world...

instead of religious books
Slowly becoming not so true with many idiot communities voting in ID to be taught in classrooms.

People are still treated like dirt in many areas if they are a homosexual.

Our country is currently leading itself into the ground when it comes to international relations, and has been for some time.

We're embroiled in one of the most idiotic wars we've ever been in, Iraq, losing at least one American everyday there.

Not trying to sound down or anything, but America isn't THAT fantastic. Yes, it is much better than most places. Yes, I suppose you could say I'm proud to be an infidel.

HOWEVER

Let us not delude ourselves into thinking we are far superior. That kind of thinking leads to bad decisions, which lead to downfalls of nations.

I'm proud to be an infidel, and a heretic/blasphemer/heathen (read: non-christian).

Aww...*was hoping for a fight over his last statement*

Are you talking about the USA? Because it sure sounds a lot more like a number of European countries to me.

No, he said free to say anything you want and great military and economy. That clearly means the USA. At least until Bush decides to target the first ammendment.

I'm proud to be an infidel, and a heretic/blasphemer/heathen (read: non-christian).

Same here.

I always considered myself to be more of a heretic than an infidel. :)

I'm proud that I'm not a nationalistic idiot. I am not under the delusion that my country is the best in the world, and is apparently blessed by some magical being which some people believe in.

I've been called an infidel and a race traitor, thankyouverymuch.

I guess I'm Proud To Be An Infidel.

Infidel doesn't mean what you think it means.

I'm proud that I'm not a nationalistic idiot. I am not under the delusion that my country is the best in the world, and is apparently blessed by some magical being which some people believe in.


Santa is real dammit!:mad:

Santa is real dammit!:mad:

Of course Father Christmas is real, I was talking about the other dude. This God people mention here a lot. Although I suppose this thread doesn't have much to do with that. It's just that I get a little irritated by these brainwashed American kids that always start rants, probably copied from their textbooks, on how ''America is the greatest nation on Earth'' and ''God blesses America above all over countries.'' We seem to be infested with these kids. I guess I should apologise to them, everyone has a right to voice their opinion even if it is a load of nationalistic BS. Just ignore me and carry on talking shite. :(

I'm glad that I live in a country where women are treated like humans, not beasts
In theory. The same as any other country.

Women are still treated worse than men absolutely everywhere on the planet.
where homosexuals and other minority groups of society are tolerated and allowed to live in peace
*snorts derisively*

Tolerated enough for homosexuality to be considered a disorder by the people at the top, yeah?
where I can say and think whatever I well want, and where the government is accountable to the people.
Shame the people only shoot house-thieves, rather than election-thieves. To be frank.
I'm also glad that I live in a country with a strong military
The USA... claiming to protect freedom since 1945 (TM)
with a great economy
Your debt is great, your economy is not.
with opportunity for all
As long as you have the capital to start with.
in a country where quality education is provided
You were wise enough to leave 'quality' without a qualifier. Good move.
a country where physics, mathematics, and social studies are taught,
I would have thought "modesty and foresight" classes would be more useful than Sociology, no?

And it's not like maths / physics isn't taught in Africa and the Middle East - if you'll remember correctly, these were the birthplaces of modern scientific thinking.
instead of religious books
Never been to the bible belt, then, aye?
a country where I can go to sleep knowing that I will be safe from criminals...
You're less safe than us Brits.
I guess I'm Proud To Be An Infidel.

Does anyone here share my sentiments?
Blind patriots of the world - UNITE!

I agree with everything except the title. It's our enemies, not we, who are the "infidels."

I'm not always proud to be an American, but I do love my country. That's why I'd rather fix it than move somewhere else. I'd rather go through the enormous job of trying to make it what it should be than take the easy out of going somewhere else. I want to make an attempt to take it out of corporate ownership, however impossible that might seem. I want to keep the nuts on the religious right from turning this into a theocracy rather than move someplace more secular. Maybe it's a lost cause, but I haven't given up on it yet.

You don't happen to work for the BBC, do you? Perhaps the Militant Tendency (that name always gives me a laugh)?

where homosexuals and other minority groups of society are tolerated and allowed to live in peace,

sometimes i really want to poke the homos in the eye. first they want us to stop throwing them in jail, now the want to get married.
if my country gets anymore liberal, i will convert to islam and live in iran.

Women are still treated worse than men absolutely everywhere on the planet.


most western countries women now have extra rights.

I want to keep the nuts on the religious right from turning this into a theocracy rather than move someplace more secular. Maybe it's a lost cause, but I haven't given up on it yet.

The very small minority of "religious right" theocrats are far less of a threat to you and your precious secularism than the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Islamo-Nazis and jihadists they represent.

"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." -- Omar Ahmad, Co-founder of CAIR.

I am equally proud of being classed as an Infidel by muslems and christians. I wish I could step back and let them go at each other in a war of mutual extinction.

I second that. religion=poison

The very small minority of "religious right" theocrats are far less of a threat to you and your precious secularism than the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Islamo-Nazis and jihadists they represent.

"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." -- Omar Ahmad, Co-founder of CAIR.:rolleyes:

so. which european country do you live in then?

most western countries women now have extra rights.

/me points and laughs

The very small minority of "religious right" theocrats are far less of a threat to you and your precious secularism than the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Islamo-Nazis and jihadists they represent.Really? How many of them run for congress or president and get elected?

"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." -- Omar Ahmad, Co-founder of CAIR.If we substituted the necessary words, wouldn't that be exactly what the more radical Christians think about Christianity?

most western countries women now have extra rights.
I wasn't aware of that. Perhaps you can tell me about my extra rights. I'd like to take advantage of them.

I wasn't aware of that. Perhaps you can tell me about my extra rights. I'd like to take advantage of them.No draft (or less time spent in the military if drafted), no mandatory selective service.

Of course Father Christmas is real, I was talking about the other dude. This God people mention here a lot. Although I suppose this thread doesn't have much to do with that. It's just that I get a little irritated by these brainwashed American kids that always start rants, probably copied from their textbooks, on how ''America is the greatest nation on Earth'' and ''God blesses America above all over countries.'' We seem to be infested with these kids. I guess I should apologise to them, everyone has a right to voice their opinion even if it is a load of nationalistic BS. Just ignore me and carry on talking shite. :(

Good....for a moment there I thought you'd gone nutzo! God? nope.....never heard of him. Yeah we seem to be having a lot of these kinda rants at the mo for some reason or other.

I wasn't aware of that. Perhaps you can tell me about my extra rights. I'd like to take advantage of them.

earlier retirement age in UK, maternity leave (longer than paternity leave which has only recently been introduced here).

earlier retirement age in UK, maternity leave (longer than paternity leave which has only recently been introduced here).Well, that doesn't help me here.
But the earlier retirement age makes no sense. Women live longer than men. If anybody gets to retire earlier, it should be the guys.

No draft (or less time spent in the military if drafted), no mandatory selective service.

Some have argued that that is a lack of a right.

There is, in reality, no perfect beacon of freedom or justice. In fact there is no such thing as complete and utter freedom. Now, with that, there is also no perfect government and criticising or arguing for or against governmental forms will not get anything accomplished; no matter how logical and well thought out the arguments are. If one really wishes to make a change, the only way is to go out and do it. Get involved in the politics of your nation and try to make the governments a little less imperfect.

I'm glad that I live in a country where women are treated like humans, not beasts,...

Great. Just great - what do my tired eyes read?

"I'm glad that I live in a country where women are treated like humans, not breasts,..." :rolleyes:


But I'm glad I live where I live, the way I live, and with the freedoms and responsibilities that brings with it.

I'm not willing to call myself an infidel, though.

A frightening number of Americans refer to people with words that are meant to mean similar offence like “traitor” to people who may disagree with the war on terror and the laws that get passed about it

Oh noes:rolleyes:

Could that be anymore trivial.

Religion isn't the opiate of the masses anymore...it's the crack cocaine.

most western countries women now have extra rights.
Such as the right to work for less money than their male counterparts, for example.

Correct.

No draft (or less time spent in the military if drafted), no mandatory selective service.
They'd be sent to the factories and onto the land if a proper war broke out.

That's just as bad.

Really? How many of them run for congress or president and get elected?

There's one running in Minnesota in a Democrat district, and unfortunately it looks like he'll get elected.

If we substituted the necessary words, wouldn't that be exactly what the more radical Christians think about Christianity?

I doubt if a measurable percentage of Christians hold that opinion. Those who do aren't immigrating into the US in large numbers, nor inducing significant numbers of prison inmates to apostasize to their creed, nor rampaging whenever someone looks at them crosseyed.

1) I'm no expert on Turkey, but I don't imagine they like homosexuals that much. Or Jews. Or Westerners in general. Why not take a walk down Istanbul in a yarmulke and see what happens?

The detainees at G-Bay have it better than you think. They get 3 square meals a day, Korans, and clean cells. Of course, they get tortured too, which I imagine isn't too pleasant, but when you shoot at American soldiers and don't wear a uniform of any nation's military forces, you're an illegal combatant.

2) I've never heard anyone who disagrees with Bush called a traitor. Certainly someone could be called frivolous, or an appeaser, but that's a far cry from traitor.



Well while not moving away from subject I should tell you a few things about Turkiye.
First of all we don't have a Hollywood and not exporting culture etc. so most of the world have no idea whatsoever about us.
Jews call Turkiye big Israel, they even speak Turkish among themselves in other countries.
There are gay and transexual foundations. There are Mason foundations, Christian foundations etc. Walking around in skimpy clothes will only make people drool, you won't get beated. Except for some high crime rated suburbs, which are dangerous no matter what. Being gay or transexual will be a problem with so many big burly man with moustaches wooing you. People like them a bit too much. We have historical minature gay porns(night lessons for young ottoman princes) at palace museum so unfortunately its part of culture (ım ashamed)
We have bars we have brothels etc. and alcohol+cigarettes can be found at every corner,even with incredible taxes over them they are consumed highly. The population is muslim at the same time.

When people realise you are a foreigner in Turkiye you don't get beated or lose your head to scimitar, they just overcharge you. Which leaves you wishing you were tortured and killed horribly :D

Some have argued that that is a lack of a right.More of a lack of a duty. Some have argued that that's more akin to freedom than being allowed to do things.

There's one running in Minnesota in a Democrat district, and unfortunately it looks like he'll get elected.Link.
I doubt if a measurable percentage of Christians hold that opinion. Those who do aren't immigrating into the US in large numbers, nor inducing significant numbers of prison inmates to apostasize to their creed, nor rampaging whenever someone looks at them crosseyed.:rolleyes:

I'm glad that I live in a country where women are treated like humans,
Yes, for all of our history, too. Oh, wait...

not beasts
Apparently you've never seen a rap music video.

where homosexuals and other minority groups of society are tolerated and allowed to live in peace
CRASH and gaybashers come to mind...

where I can say and think whatever I well want
Desegregation comes to mind...

and where the government is accountable to the people.
Laughable. We don't have a tyrant, but we do have widespread ignorance.

I'm also glad that I live in a country with a strong military
A military that was beaten by punji sticks?

with a great economy
What's your basis of comparison? Haiti?

with opportunity for all
Except the poor, of course.
But, then again, it's their fault they're poor, they don't deserve oppurtunities, right?

in a country where quality education is provided
ROFL, did you go to a private school or something? Quality, my ass.

a country where physics, mathematics, and social studies are taught, instead of religious books
So we learn bullsh*t, instead of worthwhile literature. I don't know about you, but I think a working knowledge of the Qu'ran is more useful than Ecce Romani: Volume I

a country where I can go to sleep knowing that I will be safe from criminals...
My friend's house got broken into twice last month. He lives just a few blocks away from me, not in another country.

I guess I'm Proud To Be An Infidel.
Just as Muslims are Proud To Be A Heretic

Does anyone here share my sentiments?
Unfortunately, yes.

More of a lack of a duty. Some have argued that that's more akin to freedom than being allowed to do things.
And as I said - in an actual war, not just an exercise in beating down a few political rivals overseas, as has been happening for the last 60 years, women would be put onto the land / into the factories.

As long as you have the capital to start with.

Tell that to all the immigrants who arrived here with little more than the shirts on their backs, and through thrift and ingenuity, became highly successful.

Tell that to all the immigrants who arrived here with little more than the shirts on their backs, and through thrift and ingenuity, became highly successful.

as opposed to the 99.99% who were treated like dirt and ended up in poverty.

shall we discuss slavery? :rolleyes:

as opposed to the 99.99% who were treated like dirt and ended up in poverty.

Got any statistics to back up your bullshit claim?

And slavery ended over 140 years ago. Also note that I said immigrants, as in people who emigrated here voluntarily, rather than being kidnapped and brought here literally at gun-point.

Got any statistics to back up your bullshit claim?

And slavery ended over 140 years ago. Also note that I said immigrants, as in people who emigrated here voluntarily, rather than being kidnapped and brought here literally at gun-point.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/97/07/9707jw.pdf#search=%22wealth%20demographics%20US%22

White people still hold almost all of the wealth.

Hispanics do not.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/97/07/9707jw.pdf#search=%22wealth%20demographics%20US%22

White people still hold almost all of the wealth.

Hispanics do not.

And that's whitey's fault? I'm sorry that American's once owned slaves. Then again, so did virtually every other nation at some point in history.


<--- disabled and dirt poor.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/97/07/9707jw.pdf#search=%22wealth%20demographics%20US%22

White people still hold almost all of the wealth.

Hispanics do not.

There's nothing preventing them from acquiring more wealth.

Such as the right to work for less money than their male counterparts, for example.

Correct.

Which has a lot to do with the number of hours women work each week. The much touted 75% study doesn't reflect the fact that women also, on average, work 75% of the total hours men work.

Wome are paid nearly equally on an hourly rate, but differently on a weekly rate.

I'm glad that I live in a country where women are treated like humans, not beasts, where homosexuals and other minority groups of society are tolerated and allowed to live in peace, where I can say and think whatever I well want, and where the government is accountable to the people. I'm also glad that I live in a country with a strong military, with a great economy, with opportunity for all, in a country where quality education is provided, a country where physics, mathematics, and social studies are taught, instead of religious books, a country where I can go to sleep knowing that I will be safe from criminals...

I guess I'm Proud To Be An Infidel.

Does anyone here share my sentiments?you know... I find it hilarious that a post like this, one that can mean any country with those qualities, is automatically assumed to be America.

people automatically assumed America and while RockTheCasbah did confirm that he did mean the USA... it can very well mean Canada, England, France..etc... and no one, outside of a couple of offhand comments, mentions this.

I find it truly sad that it seems that no one, except a few, still take pride in their country, for all the Good and Evils that were done. Instead of turning this thread into a shout out for each person's country, to say how much and why you love it, it's turned into yet another "let's bash America" thread.

I very well expected others with the same views of their country to be shouting the same thing... but no, I guess America is still the only one who matches those qualities in your eyes.

and the fact that most of you don't praise your own countries that have the same qualities mentioned, means you also realise it yourselves.

please note, he asks if anyone "Shares His Sentiments." and while he says he loves HIS COUNTRY... he never mentioned which country he was speaking about. So his sentiment in the OP can be for any country with those qualities... and so a Canadian can love HIS country for those reason, French, their country, same reasons... etc...

but it seems that most truly don't feel that way about their country...

Truly sad.

However, I take pride, both as an Individual and as an American, that it seems that people still see America as the only shining beacon of Equality, Strength and Freedom, dispite recent events and the fact that they would rather bash America than give a shout out to their country... supports that. :D

1) I'm no expert on Turkey, but I don't imagine they like homosexuals that much. Or Jews. Or Westerners in general. Why not take a walk down Istanbul in a yarmulke and see what happens?

The detainees at G-Bay have it better than you think. They get 3 square meals a day, Korans, and clean cells. Of course, they get tortured too, which I imagine isn't too pleasant, but when you shoot at American soldiers and don't wear a uniform of any nation's military forces, you're an illegal combatant.

2) I've never heard anyone who disagrees with Bush called a traitor. Certainly someone could be called frivolous, or an appeaser, but that's a far cry from traitor.

Either you haven't been paying attention for the last 5 years, or you're lying.

Either you have been paying attention for the last 5 years, or you're lying.quoted before he corrects it.
(bolding Mine)
:D

quoted before he corrects it.
(bolding Mine)
:D

You do realize it's infantile to use a typo to prove a point that isn't even legitimate, don't you? Aren't you at all capable of behaving as an adult?

EDIT: Of course you're not. Perhaps a better question wwould be why you won't act like a mature adult.

you know... I find it hilarious that a post like this, one that can mean any country with those qualities, is automatically assumed to be America.Agreed. No other country sports such a concentration of loudmouthed JingoistsI find it truly sad that it seems that no one, except a few, still take pride in their country, for all the Good and Evils that were done. Instead of turning this thread into a shout out for each person's country, to say how much and why you love it, it's turned into yet another "let's bash America" thread.

I very well expected others with the same views of their country to be shouting the same thing... but no, I guess America is still the only one who matches those qualities in your eyes.Or perhaps you're missing the obvious. Maybe, just maybe, people feel offended or outraged that America, a country that possess few of the mentioned qualities, are hailed as the one country that embodies those qualities. And maybe, just maybe, people are sick & fucking tired of seeing jingoistic hypocrites repeat this self-glorifying lie over & over.and the fact that most of you don't praise your own countries that have the same qualities mentioned, means you also realise it yourselves.Or maybe it means the exact opposite. Yups, my country is better than that dysfunctional shithole you call home. Normally I'm just polite enough not to rub it in.please note, he asks if anyone "Shares His Sentiments." and while he says he loves HIS COUNTRY... he never mentioned which country he was speaking about. So his sentiment in the OP can be for any country with those qualities... and so a Canadian can love HIS country for those reason, French, their country, same reasons... etc...I do, and I said so. I also pointed out that the things he's proud of only apply to the US with some major reservations - which makes me think he's either stupid or a hypocrite, or both... Though I was polite enough not to say that outright until you baited me.but it seems that most truly don't feel that way about their country...

Truly sad.Imagine this: Most of your non-American fellow NSGers think their respective countries are fucked up beyond belief. They also think their countries are downright heavenly compared to most or all other countries, but that just means the world's a pretty fucked up place.

Now imagine that's actually the case. Do you really think that's sad?
I think it's great people aren't afraid to strive for improvements. If that's not the very essence of patriotism, I don't know what is.However, I take pride, both as an Individual and as an American, that it seems that people still see America as the only shining beacon of Equality, Strength and Freedom, dispite recent events and the fact that they would rather bash America than give a shout out to their country... supports that. :DIt only supports that idiotic notion in Jingoist-wonderland. Out in the real would, pointing out that your country isn't something to be proud of, means just that; pointing out your country isn't something to be proud of.

Here's a little experiment: I'm not Superman.

I look forward to reading your baffled post in the near future, complaining that I didn't tear off my clothes & fly off to prevent some disaster or other. Or do you only think I write the exact opposite of what I mean when I'm criticising America?

America provides good education for all and tolerates minorities :confused:


Ever hear of Affirmative Action in America, and political correctness. Not only do we tolerate them whether we want to or not. We give them more rights then the rest of us.

You do realize it's infantile to use a typo to prove a point that isn't even legitimate, don't you? Aren't you at all capable of behaving as an adult?

EDIT: Of course you're not. Perhaps a better question wwould be why you won't act like a mature adult.

you know that I don't harp on mispelled words, nor grammar. it's just that this particular mispelling made it sound like you were agreeing with him.

at least I did say you were going to correct it and that I did know that it was a mistake. :D

I did mean no insult to you and tender my sincere apologies

Agreed. No other country sports such a concentration of loudmouthed Jingoists.[snipped, not editied.]
ah... someone who admitted that my little off-the-cuff critisism applied to him.

I wonder who else thinks my post applies to them?

and how would they rationalize it.

You do realize it's infantile to use a typo to prove a point that isn't even legitimate, don't you? Aren't you at all capable of behaving as an adult?

EDIT: Of course you're not. Perhaps a better question wwould be why you won't act like a mature adult.

You do realize it's infantile to call someone names and degrade them during a debate? Aren't you capable of behaving as an adult?

Of course you're not. Perhaps a better question wwould be why you won't act like a mature adult.

How do you like it when it's done to you?

You do realize it's... no worries RTC... It could've been seen as nitpicking. I do apologize and will edit my post to refect it. but no need to aruge this.. please... on both sides.

Agreed. No other country sports such a concentration of loudmouthed JingoistsOr perhaps you're missing the obvious. Maybe, just maybe, people feel offended or outraged that America, a country that possess few of the mentioned qualities, are hailed as the one country that embodies those qualities. And maybe, just maybe, people are sick & fucking tired of seeing jingoistic hypocrites repeat this self-glorifying lie over & over.Or maybe it means the exact opposite. Yups, my country is better than that dysfunctional shithole you call home. Normally I'm just polite enough not to rub it in.I do, and I said so. I also pointed out that the things he's proud of only apply to the US with some major reservations - which makes me think he's either stupid or a hypocrite, or both... Though I was polite enough not to say that outright until you baited me.Imagine this: Most of your non-American fellow NSGers think their respective countries are fucked up beyond belief. They also think their countries are downright heavenly compared to most or all other countries, but that just means the world's a pretty fucked up place.

Now imagine that's actually the case. Do you really think that's sad?
I think it's great people aren't afraid to strive for improvements. If that's not the very essence of patriotism, I don't know what is.It only supports that idiotic notion in Jingoist-wonderland. Out in the real would, pointing out that your country isn't something to be proud of, means just that; pointing out your country isn't something to be proud of.

Here's a little experiment: I'm not Superman.

I look forward to reading your baffled post in the near future, complaining that I didn't tear off my clothes & fly off to prevent some disaster or other. Or do you only think I write the exact opposite of what I mean when I'm criticising America?

1) If America possesses few of the aforementioned quantities, why does it get so many immigrants?

2) My country is something to be proud of. Of course there's room for improvement, but I have it better in America than the average person out in the general world. I even have it better here than they do in Europe. My country is a shithole? You couldn't be more wrong. If you don't think your country is something to be proud of, you're entitled to your opinion, but at least try to realize that anyone who doesn't agree with you on this matter is not a rabid jingoist.

Just for the record, I was referring to democracies in general, not limited to America.

Similization:

You're the one engaging in the ad-hominem attacks, not JuNii. So, by your logic one cannot love their country without thinking it is infallible?

I declare Jihad on jihad !

TIME PARADOX!

The USA. I'm comparing my country to places like Africa and the mid east. Yes, I'm a patriotic American Idiot.

Hey, you asked.

Maybe irrelevant, but you do realise you take your name from a North african fortress, right?

1) If America possesses few of the aforementioned quantities, why does it get so many immigrants? Greed.

2) My country is something to be proud of. Of course there's room for improvement, but I have it better in America than the average person out in the general world. Yup.
I even have it better here than they do in Europe. I'll drink to that... wait, no! I can't! They don't sell alcohol after midnight here in Virginia! Thank goodness I'm over 21 though. The fact that the drinking age is so much higher doesn't matter if you're over it. But the sky is hazier here than in Berlin...

ah... someone who admitted that my little off-the-cuff critisism applied to him.You know, up til now, I didn't actually notice who I was responding to. Now that I have, I'm surprised.

Do you really think that I (and all the rest of the people who doesn't think America is the shining beacon of all things nice) mean the exact opposite of what I write?

Or was it all some elaborate baiting, constructed in the hopes of making a bunch of Europeans mass-post about how brilliant their countries are?

1) If America possesses few of the aforementioned quantities, why does it get so many immigrants? Because your society better suits their needs than the ones they come from maybe?
Do rich people move to the US for the civil liberties & the great education, or for the higher paychecks & lower taxes?
Do poor, oppressed people move to the Us for the civil liberties & great education? Sure they do, but that's no indication that those things are spectacular or even mildly satisfying in the US, just that a lot of places are even worse.2) My country is something to be proud of. Of course there's room for improvement, but I have it better in America than the average person out in the general world.See that's the difference between you & I. I do take pride in my personal achievements, but I do not base my pride in my society on how well I'm doing in it. That kind of yearstick gives a completely distorted image of the society as a whole.I even have it better here than they do in Europe.You might have it better than some Europeans do. Americans in general don't enjoy the same standards of the things the OP laid out, as the peoples of several European countries.My country is a shithole? You couldn't be more wrong.Alright then.. Your country isn't a shithole because there's worse shitholes, is that it? That's like saying the country formerly known as Burma isn't a shithole because Iraq is an even bigger shithole.
America has the potential to be a far more modern, far more free, far better educated, far more equal & every bit as democratic as Sweden. Hell, Sweden has that potential. Neither is, though on the whole, America looks like a developing country next to Sweden.
That's why I call it a shithole. Not because it's nicer than Myanmar.If you don't think your country is something to be proud of, you're entitled to your opinion, but at least try to realize that anyone who doesn't agree with you on this matter is not a rabid jingoist.I don't think either one of our countries are anything to be proud of. I think both could be, though, and that people not only settles for less, but are proud of it, makes me ashamed on their behalf.

You're the one engaging in the ad-hominem attacks, not JuNii.Depends on how you look at it. JuNii outright wrote that since I'm not (explicitly) proud of the current state of my country, I must think America is a shining beacon of all things nice.
Now besides the fact that I, like several others, hadn't in any way said I wasn't proud of my country at that point, I'd also politely pointed out that pride in America for the reasons given in the OP, was both misplaced & hypocritical.

So does responding to something that's either baiting or just really fucking stupid by pointing out that it's either baiting or really fucking stupid constitute a personal attack? Oh well.. If you have a problem, consult a Mod.So, by your logic one cannot love their country without thinking it is infallible?Eh what? I love my country & as I've tried to make clear, there's numerous things wrong with it. I'd never have moved here if I didn't love it.

You know, up til now, I didn't actually notice who I was responding to. Now that I have, I'm surprised.

Do you really think that I (and all the rest of the people who doesn't think America is the shining beacon of all things nice) mean the exact opposite of what I write?

Or was it all some elaborate baiting, constructed in the hopes of making a bunch of Europeans mass-post about how brilliant their countries are?


actually I was rather surprised by your response as well... it was more of the fact that he didn't ask if anyone loved America but shared his sentiment about loving his country. granted it could mean America but it could also mean any country with those characteristics.

I just found it... irritating.. that it turned into a bashing and flaunting of America and her flaws. In other words, another example of negativity where it could have been more postitive in tone.

an observation about the overall tone of NSG that I've noticed of late. Granted the world is a pissy place, but there must be some good things about your country, or even those that you would hate, that anyone can find. it's just that, it's so easy to see the negative, and rarely people strive to find the positive. :(

no, It wasn't meant to be baiting or flaming or trolling.. just a fustrated user's observations.


and I placed a thread asking people to display the good things about their country... and I am heartened by most of their responses.

an observation about the overall tone of NSG that I've noticed of late.Might be the weather or midterms. Higher stress? Or you've only just begun to notice and it's always been like that :p

Might be the weather or midterms. Higher stress? Or you've only just begun to notice and it's always been like that :p

actually, it hasn't been that way before the 2004 elections.

and while the 2004 elections was a start of it, it definately went downhill from there... with no let up in sight...


I just finally got tired of it all.

I'm glad that I live in a country where women are treated like humans, not beasts, where homosexuals and other minority groups of society are tolerated and allowed to live in peace, where I can say and think whatever I well want, and where the government is accountable to the people. I'm also glad that I live in a country with a strong military, with a great economy, with opportunity for all, in a country where quality education is provided, a country where physics, mathematics, and social studies are taught, instead of religious books, a country where I can go to sleep knowing that I will be safe from criminals...



I guess I'm Proud To Be An Infidel.

Does anyone here share my sentiments?

well i like crimminals...makes me feel like i am contributing.....as for terorists and whatever....yawn.

sleep with one eye open is my advice...or grow a pair.

actually I was rather surprised by your response as well... it was more of the fact that he didn't ask if anyone loved America but shared his sentiment about loving his country. granted it could mean America but it could also mean any country with those characteristics.

I just found it... irritating.. that it turned into a bashing and flaunting of America and her flaws. In other words, another example of negativity where it could have been more postitive in tone.Yet this thread got that kind of response for the very same reason, which should be pretty obvious. People are tired of Americans proclaiming to the world how great the country is for this & that reason, while at the same time doing everything they can to undermine the very things they're praising.
And people are really damn tired of the - at least in recent years - decidedly American attitude that America is the very embodiment of all things nice. It seems like a great many Americans think that if they just yell it at the top of their lungs, all will see their nation & dispair with jealousy. And of course, anyone who dares contradict it is a surrender-monkey, traitor, freedom-hater or commie, and besides, we'd all be breathing Zyklon & caughing in german if it wasn't for you, so we really aren't entitled to an opinion.

It's not just a silly lie. It doesn't just come off as dangerous jingoism. It isn't just hypocritical. It's fucking arrogant & every bit as endearing as someone pissing on your livingroom carpet... And only Americans seem to do it. It just cracks my head.an observation about the overall tone of NSG that I've noticed of late. Repeating the same bullshit over & over grinds on people's nerves. One third spews jingoist nonsense. Another third cries about erroding civil liberties & warcrimes. The last third drolls on & on about the horrors of immigration. All three are reduced to calling eachother idiots, because the arguments have all been made a million times.It's the danger of a soap-box community where no one is looking to achieve anything. We have no incentive to letting ourselves be convinced by eachother or engage in compromises. I'd like to think I'm different & that my previous responses in this thread are just a result of a bad headache. It's not a promise though.Granted the world is a pissy place, but there must be some good things about your country, or even those that you would hate, that anyone can find. it's just that, it's so easy to see the negative, and rarely people strive to find the positive. :( Of course there are. There's a great many things I like about the US as well, for that matter. The lack of racism & embrace of multi-culturalism in America, for example, is something Europe as a whole should strive to emulate. Likewise, our healthcare systems are something Americans would benefit immensely from emulating.no, It wasn't meant to be baiting or flaming or trolling.. just a fustrated user's observations.I know how you feel. And like you, I replied out of frustration over the constant "Look at me! Look at me! I do everything I possibly can to alienate you, 'cos I'm your hero & saviour!". It's gotten to the point where I'd almost prefer being an Iraqi rather than listen to another American "patriot" wanking over how great everything about his country is.and I placed a thread asking people to display the good things about their country... and I am heartened by most of their responses.Tell them to post pics :)

1) If America possesses few of the aforementioned quantities, why does it get so many immigrants?

2) My country is something to be proud of. Of course there's room for improvement, but I have it better in America than the average person out in the general world. I even have it better here than they do in Europe. My country is a shithole? You couldn't be more wrong. If you don't think your country is something to be proud of, you're entitled to your opinion, but at least try to realize that anyone who doesn't agree with you on this matter is not a rabid jingoist.

Just for the record, I was referring to democracies in general, not limited to America.

Italy is struggling with the number of immigrants they get, Spain is struggling with the number of immigrants, Germany is struggling with the number of immigrants.... come to think of it, most of the EU is struggling with immigration. And so does Canada.

I seriously doubt that you have it "better" than I have it in Europe, I guess what you were trying to say was that you like it better in the USA than you would like it in Europe.

Yet this thread got that kind of response for the very same reason, which should be pretty obvious. People are tired of Americans proclaiming to the world how great the country is for this & that reason, while at the same time doing everything they can to undermine the very things they're praising.
And people are really damn tired of the - at least in recent years - decidedly American attitude that America is the very embodiment of all things nice. It seems like a great many Americans think that if they just yell it at the top of their lungs, all will see their nation & dispair with jealousy. And of course, anyone who dares contradict it is a surrender-monkey, traitor, freedom-hater or commie, and besides, we'd all be breathing Zyklon & caughing in german if it wasn't for you, so we really aren't entitled to an opinion.

It's not just a silly lie. It doesn't just come off as dangerous jingoism. It isn't just hypocritical. It's fucking arrogant & every bit as endearing as someone pissing on your livingroom carpet... And only Americans seem to do it. It just cracks my head.Repeating the same bullshit over & over grinds on people's nerves. One third spews jingoist nonsense. Another third cries about erroding civil liberties & warcrimes. The last third drolls on & on about the horrors of immigration. All three are reduced to calling eachother idiots, because the arguments have all been made a million times.It's the danger of a soap-box community where no one is looking to achieve anything. We have no incentive to letting ourselves be convinced by eachother or engage in compromises. I'd like to think I'm different & that my previous responses in this thread are just a result of a bad headache. It's not a promise though.Of course there are. There's a great many things I like about the US as well, for that matter. The lack of racism & embrace of multi-culturalism in America, for example, is something Europe as a whole should strive to emulate. Likewise, our healthcare systems are something Americans would benefit immensely from emulating.I know how you feel. And like you, I replied out of frustration over the constant "Look at me! Look at me! I do everything I possibly can to alienate you, 'cos I'm your hero & saviour!". It's gotten to the point where I'd almost prefer being an Iraqi rather than listen to another American "patriot" wanking over how great everything about his country is.Tell them to post pics :)
and there you go. GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO YOUR COUNTRY. I certanly won't accuse you of Nationalism. but instead of telling what is negative about someone elses country, say something positive about yours!

sure some Americans here are snotty when it comes to expounding on their country, but others are rather venomous when it come to the negativity.

You say your country has great Health care... what else. I like the idea that many of the European countries find the abilty to strive together towards common goals... that you are close enough to compete in several non-policial events, what else does your country have that you are proud of. and post it in my other thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=502967)... with pic if you want. :D

or if you also want... let's turn the negativity around in this one... WHOOT!

and there you go. GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO YOUR COUNTRY. I certanly won't accuse you of Nationalism. but instead of telling what is negative about someone elses country, say something positive about yours!

sure some Americans here are snotty when it comes to expounding on their country, but others are rather venomous when it come to the negativity.

You say your country has great Health care... what else. I like the idea that many of the European countries find the abilty to strive together towards common goals... that you are close enough to compete in several non-policial events, what else does your country have that you are proud of. and post it in my other thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=502967)... with pic if you want. :D

or if you also want... let's turn the negativity around in this one... WHOOT!


*lol
Sounds like someone got into the christmas spirit a bit early this year ;)

Yes, I'm proud and honored to be an American. We're far from perfect, but we're leagues above many of the alternatives.

// expects the whole "you're an arrogant American idiot" flames //

Yes, I'm proud and honored to be an American. We're far from perfect, but we're leagues above many of the alternatives.

// expects the whole "you're an arrogant American idiot" flames //Yeah, well you can go to He-, no... wait, you're already there :p

And no, we're not leagues above many of the alternatives, depending on what you look at ;)

*lol
Sounds like someone got into the christmas spirit a bit early this year ;)

Yay! Christmas spirit!

Sounds like Israel and there they call all non-Jews Infidels so I guess you need to find out what it means and if it is really a bad thing because in Israel they have a whole street where they honor "Infidels" that have done humanity or the rather the people of Israel good in some way.

The former Nazi Party member Oscar Schindler is among those who have been given this honor and he has a tree planted for him in Jerusalem.

YES I SAW IT IN THE FILM SO WHAT?

Yeah, well you can go to He-, no... wait, you're already there :p

And no, we're not leagues above many of the alternatives, depending on what you look at ;)

Hmm...*looks at map of the world on wall*. It is in my personal opinion that life in US is superior/more favorable than life in [see list below]. This list is based on my personal preferences and is not meant to be taken as an absolute statement intended to all humans no matter where (or if) they live. This is not limited to just humans, but can also be applied to all aspects of the animal and plant kingdoms, respectively, with the exception of the platypus, which I will gleefully discriminate against because it's fucking ugly. This list brought to, in part, by Cabra West. Cheers.

-- Most of Europe: America provides a nice escape from the gross amount of government control that, sadly, dosn't bother an unfortunate majority of Europeans. The warring kingdoms of the Old World are finally dead, replaced instead with limp-wristed, squabbling children that bicker about the most futile things while providing no real solutions other than more throwing more government at a problem. After all, there's nothing government can't break worse if it's all ready broken. No thank you, Socialist Europe, you may keep your universal healthcare. I'd rather pay an arm and leg for the best quality care in the world than sit on a goddamn waiting list for eight months when I need surgery now. You may also keep your nationalized industries that provide services at the cost of absurd increases in taxes. The list sadly continues.

-- Africa: I'd rather America than war-ravaged third-world nations either run by oppressive dictatorships, fledging democracies that enforce their will at the barrel of a gun, or by no government at all--countries caught in endless civil strife and hideous streaks of bloodshed that will continue for years. Disease runs rampant. African healthcare...what's that?

-- Russia: The Cold War never ended and the Wall never came down to an unfortunate sect of this government. Russia is a facade where a large portion of people still live in sickening poverty and crippling conditions while the government is powerless to do anything about it because it can't crawl out of the large shadow of the disgusting experiment in human torture that was the Soviet Union.

-- Canada: Or, as Christian Finnegan calls them, "America Lite." ;)

-- Mexico: I prefer knowing that the water I'm drinking is rather quite safe.

-- China: I don't care for a psuedo-communist nation that believes in the rampant mandated murder of "extra" children, which includes the all-too-prevasive slaughter of "babies with two mouths."

-- Middle-East, with perhaps the exemption of Israel: Forgive me if I prefer to live in a nation where I won't get beheaded, flogged, stoned, or hung for speaking my mind. Forgive me if I believe in women's and minority rights. Forgive me if I don't quite care for theocracies that enforce their tyranny-by-religion at the barrel of an AK-47, all the while using a holy book to justify support for endless butchery and chaos against anyone who is not a follower of--nay, subject--of their oppressive version of Islam.

-- Australia: Kangaroos are funny looking, thus proclaiming America's clear superiority. Kidding. See Europe.

-- South and Central America: sadly, see Africa for a good portion of their nations. Those that aren't ravaged by disease/poverty/war are subjected to the oppressive controls of tyrannical governments.

-- Antarctica: hey, if the penguins from Madagscar thought it sucked, it has to really blow. :D

Thank you for the choice of alternatives, but I'm damn glad to live in America.

<snip>

Again, you mistake "my personal preference" for "objectively better for all".

Personally, I wouldn't want to live in the US if someone paid me for it. I quite enjoy living and working in Europe. But I don't go around claiming that because I like it best, everyone esle has to, too.

I'm glad that I live in a country where women are treated like humans, not beasts, where homosexuals and other minority groups of society are tolerated and allowed to live in peace, where I can say and think whatever I well want, and where the government is accountable to the people. I'm also glad that I live in a country with a strong military, with a great economy, with opportunity for all, in a country where quality education is provided, a country where physics, mathematics, and social studies are taught, instead of religious books, a country where I can go to sleep knowing that I will be safe from criminals...

I guess I'm Proud To Be An Infidel.

Does anyone here share my sentiments?

Your right, it is great to be from western europe

Again, you mistake "my personal preference" for "objectively better for all".

Personally, I wouldn't want to live in the US if someone paid me for it. I quite enjoy living and working in Europe. But I don't go around claiming that because I like it best, everyone esle has to, too.

Kindly point out where I once said that or anything to that effect. Yes, this is based on my personal preference. That's all anyone can base it on.

Kindly point out where I once said that or anything to that effect. Yes, this is based on my personal preference. That's all anyone can base it on.

Life in US is superior/more favorable than life in...

That is an absolute claim. Worded this way, you're saying that life in the US is superior/more favourable for everybody, not just yourself.

The USA. I'm comparing my country to places like Africa and the mid east. Yes, I'm a patriotic American Idiot.

Hey, you asked.

You might want to tone down the rights of women aspect there, seeing that as few as 1 in 400 rapists ever gets convicted, going to almost effective legalised rape if the woman and man are seeing drinking together at a bar and the man does not leave marks on the woman. And we critizise a system where a woman needs four male witnesses to prove a rape case.

Also - a good portion of your population grew up in an era where black people were barely considered human. You're only a generation or two removed from the civil rights movement. America has not had the values you hold so dear and are so proud of for very long at all. It is a little harsh to say another society is unjust and barbaric when comparing to a very very recent development in rights in America.

That is an absolute claim. Worded this way, you're saying that life in the US is superior/more favourable for everybody, not just yourself.

And yet the post is littered with "I'd rather's." Hmm.

But, to your credit, I'll concede and modify my statement, "It is in my personal opinion that life in US is superior/more favorable than life in..."

Does that suffice or would you rather something more like...

"It is in my personal opinion that life in US is superior/more favorable than life in [see list below]. This list is based on my personal preferences and is not meant to be taken as an absolute statement intended to all humans no matter where (or if) they live."

Is that sufficient enough of a disclaimer? That's what's wrong with society. Always having to correct yourself because, Heavan forbid, you can't make an absolute statement. Shoot me, apparently I'm a Sith.

And yet the post is littered with "I'd rather's." Hmm.

But, to your credit, I'll concede and modify my statement, "It is in my personal opinion that life in US is superior/more favorable than life in..."

Does that suffice or would you rather something more like...

"It is in my personal opinion that life in US is superior/more favorable than life in [see list below]. This list is based on my personal preferences and is not meant to be taken as an absolute statement intended to all humans no matter where (or if) they live."

Is that sufficient enough of a disclaimer? That's what's wrong with society. Always having to correct yourself because, Heavan forbid, you can't make an absolute statement. Shoot me, apparently I'm a Sith.


It's pretty simple : Either word your statements so they express what you feel and want to say, or else get criticised for what you said but didn't mean.
Not too complicated, I should think...

-- Most of Europe: America provides a nice escape from the gross amount of government control that, sadly, dosn't bother an unfortunate majority of Europeans. The warring kingdoms of the Old World are finally dead, replaced instead with limp-wristed, squabbling children that bicker about the most futile things while providing no real solutions other than more throwing more government at a problem. After all, there's nothing government can't break worse if it's all ready broken. No thank you, Socialist Europe, you may keep your universal healthcare. I'd rather pay an arm and leg for the best quality care in the world than sit on a goddamn waiting list for eight months when I need surgery now. You may also keep your nationalized industries that provide services at the cost of absurd increases in taxes. The list sadly continues. Two words: Drinking age :D

It's pretty simple : Either word your statements so they express what you feel and want to say, or else get criticised for what you said but didn't mean.
Not too complicated, I should think...

Oh, the huge manatee! I didn't write it out "fully" as to cover all bases on the grounds that someone, somewhere, might take it as meaning something as other than my personal opinion.

See the politically correct edit I've made to the list. :)

Two words: Drinking age :D

Owned.

You've got me there which is exactly why I advocate lowering the drinking age to 18 in America. It's absurd that you can join the service and die for the nation at 18, but you can't go into the 7/11 and buy a dirty thirty.

Oh, the huge manatee! I didn't write it out "fully" as to cover all bases on the grounds that someone, somewhere, might take it as meaning something as other than my personal opinion.

See the politically correct edit I've made to the list. :)

I never understood the concept of "politically correct". It's a very USAmercian thing at heart, I think.
But I appreciate the attampt at humour :p

I never understood the concept of "politically correct". It's a very USAmercian thing at heart, I think.
But I appreciate the attampt at humour :p

I don't understand the idea of political correctness, either. It's a farce.

And, hey, at least I'm appreciated. Sorta. Kinda. Almost. Not really.

;(

I don't understand the idea of political correctness, either. It's a farce.

And, hey, at least I'm appreciated. Sorta. Kinda. Almost. Not really.

;(


*lol
Maybe you would be in another country, who knows?

*lol
Maybe you would be in another country, who knows?

Nope. See list.

;)

Are you talking about the USA? Because it sure sounds a lot more like a number of European countries to me.
Yeah, for sure, doesn't sound very American...
However alcohol is very cheap.

Nope. See list.

;)

No mention of appreciation of attempted humour in there.... ;)

No mention of appreciation of attempted humour in there.... ;)

Duly noted.

The USA. I'm comparing my country to places like Africa and the mid east. Yes, I'm a patriotic American Idiot.


Which African countries specifically are you thinking of?

I wasn't aware of that. Perhaps you can tell me about my extra rights. I'd like to take advantage of them.

the whole women getting drunk, having sex, then sueing for rape. theres sexuall harrassment laws, that usually dont work if a man tries to press charges. not allowed to not employ someone cause they are a women, but its ok not to employ someone if they are a man.

Such as the right to work for less money than their male counterparts, for example.

Correct.

thats illegal where i'm from and you are allowed to complain. unless of course you started with the same wage and they got a promotion for being a better worker.

the whole women getting drunk, having sex, then sueing for rape. theres sexuall harrassment laws, that usually dont work if a man tries to press charges.
These are not "extra rights" - in fact, they have nothing to with "extra rights" at all.