NationStates Jolt Archive

After Switzerland, another good news from Belgium:


Belgian far right makes big gains in local elections

09 October 2006

Belgium's far-right Vlaams Belang has become the latest populist European party to make significant electoral gains. The anti-immigration Flemish separatist party won a host of seats in regional elections yesterday.

As results came in, Frank Vanhecke, the party's chairman, described the vote as a "landslide" and added: "There is no way to disregard this victory."

Early results showed the party had gained 5.6 percentage points to reach 20.6 per cent in the 308 municipal councils across Flanders, the northern Dutch-speaking part of Belgium, and surged beyond its traditional stronghold in Antwerp.

However in Antwerp itself, Belgium's second largest city, the party appeared to be simply treading water, winning the same one third of the vote that it captured in the last regional elections. That made it far from clear that the Vlaams Belang, which means Flemish Interest, had made enough progress to force other parties to allow it to share power.

Nevertheless its continued progress is the latest example of success by populist right-wing parties which have prospered in Slovakia, Poland, Germany and France.

Led by Filip Dewinter, a former journalist, the Vlaams Belang has become the biggest electoral force in Flanders.

Its success has been achieved by advocating a mixture of populist policies including strict limits on immigration and the return of economic migrants who fail to integrate. Vlaams Belang also promotes independence for Flanders, complaining that the country's Dutch speakers subsidise the poorer Francophones from Wallonia.

The far-right party has also benefited from being the focus of opposition politics in Belgium. Six years ago the Vlaams Blok, which was the forerunner of the Vlaams Belang, won one third of the vote in Antwerp, but was kept out of power under an agreement among the mainstream political parties. That deal, the so-called cordon sanitaire, remains under strain.

Before the final count, Mr Dewinter stepped up pressure for political rivals to share power with him. He argued: "In a normal democracy, a party that sees its support increase from zero to more than 33 per cent over 24 years should be part of a governing coalition."

The Vlaams Blok was disbanded after a court ruled that it incited racial hatred. In regional elections two years ago the Vlaams Belang, which has most of the same personalities, polled 24 per cent.

The success of the far-right party * which has appealed to Jewish voters to become allies against Islamic fundamentalism * has polarised Belgium.Some 40,000 people attended pre-election pop concerts in Antwerp to rally voters against racism and intolerance.

As the campaigning drew to a close Mr Dewinter used a TV debate to claim that crime in Antwerp had risen by 10 per cent since the ruling, Socialist-led coalition took power in 1994. That was disputed by the city's mayor, Patrick Janssens, who said crime had gone down 16 per cent since 2000.

Some 7 million Belgians were obliged by law to vote in the municipal and provincial elections. In Flanders, 4.5 million people were due to go to the polls to elect 8,000 representatives from around 35,000 candidates.

Overall exit polls and early results spelt bad new for the Liberal-Socialist coalition led by the Prime Minister, Guy Verhofstadt, who faces national elections next year. Mr Verhofstadt's Dutch-speaking Liberal Democrats were the biggest victims of the gains made by the Vlaams Belang in Flanders. But they also lost ground to the Christian Democrats.Mr Verhofstadt said: " We must acknowledge that the government has had a few bad months and we know that whoever leads faces the most fire."


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=709327

It's interesting that some jews vote for this party, ignoring "racist" accusations from intellectually-challenged-so-let's-chant villagers with torches...

It's interesting that some jews vote for this party, ignoring "racist" accusations from intellectually-challenged-so-let's-chant villagers with torches...how you came to conclusion that the jewish community really support them?
from what I read here:
the party which has appealed to Jewish voters to become allies against Islamic fundamentalism
they just ask from the jews to help them.
I heard in israeli source that they tried to excuse their part in the holocust and tell the jews "were important part of the european culture" , but not there and not here I heard something about jews really vote to that party.

in fact, I heard in israel that the leaders of the jewish cummunity in belgium were against this party.

So, a Dutch-Belgian separatist party won a few town councils. What should I do, have a party?

how you came to conclusion that the jewish community really support them?

Well, in the UK an asian stood for the BNP. Does that suddenly mean all asians support the BNP and helped them do 'well' in the last local elections?

No. Likewise, saying "Anti-Immigrant Vlaams Belang Becomes the Biggest Party in Flanders, Helped by Jewish" is just as silly.

I fail to see what Ny Nordland's point is.

I'm confused. What's a bunch of idiot right-wingers gaining a little power in regional elections got to do with Jewish people voting for them? Are all Jewish people immigrants over there?

Like NB said: What's your point?

Hey, let them have their wish. They can move the "crossing border here" sign from one side of their farm to the other.

It's all EU anyways. :D

Theres no reason a Jewish person couldn't be anti-immigrant or racist in some form or other. People are people etc....

how you came to conclusion that the jewish community really support them?
from what I read here:

they just ask from the jews to help them.
I heard in israeli source that they tried to excuse their part in the holocust and tell the jews "were important part of the european culture" , but not there and not here I heard something about jews really vote to that party.

in fact, I heard in israel that the leaders of the jewish cummunity in belgium were against this party.

There were no place left in the title to write "some jewish", so I wrote it in the OP. How you came to the conclusion that I was suggesting that the jewish community as in all or most jews supported them?

There were no place left in the title to write "some jewish", so I wrote it in the OP. How you came to the conclusion that I was suggesting that the jewish community as in all or most jews supported them?

I think the words "Helped by Jewish" was somewhat of an indicator there, chum.

There were no place left in the title to write "some jewish", so I wrote it in the OP. How you came to the conclusion that I was suggesting that the jewish community as in all or most jews supported them?
if it is "some jewish" who don't represent the jewish cummunity it is irrelevant.
even ifyou ignore the fact that many jewish are "jewish in name only", did "bush win the elections in USA, helped by blacks and homosexsuals" assume some blacks and homosexuals vote for him but the majority of them were against him?

I think the words "Helped by Jewish" was somewhat of an indicator there, chum.

LOL. Maybe you are too skinny and there is some vitamin B deficiency in you and you forget what you have just read while you were replying.

*hint: no space at the title*

LOL. Maybe you are too skinny and there is some vitamin B deficiency in you and you forget what you have just read while you were replying.

*hint: no space at the title*

...

You didn't actually have to write 'Helped By Jewish' in the title of course; that would have saved confusion. Well, that and the fact that it's a nonsensical point because, as others have mentioned, being Jewish does not mean one cannot be right-wing or support anti-immigration policies. Thus making the addition rather pointless...


...but I digress...

...

You didn't actually have to write 'Helped By Jewish' in the title of course; that would have saved confusion. Well, that and the fact that it's a nonsensical point because, as others have mentioned, being Jewish does not mean one cannot be right-wing or support anti-immigration policies. Thus making the addition rather pointless...


...but I digress...

Yes but jews are usually leftist and I find it interesting when they vote for anti-immigrant parties.
I find gays voting for neo-cons interesting as well (if they do).

Yes but jews are usually leftist and I find it interesting when they vote for anti-immigrant parties.
I find gays voting for neo-cons interesting as well (if they do).

Jews are usually leftist? How exactly do you figure that one out? In Israel, for example, I'm fairly sure that many of the ruling parties have been right-wing and well-supported.

Yes but jews are usually leftist and I find it interesting when they vote for anti-immigrant parties.
I find gays voting for neo-cons interesting as well (if they do).There are plenty of people who vote against their own interests, in place of other interests.

So, a Dutch-Belgian separatist party won a few town councils. What should I do, have a party?

ahh...geographically challenged. I guess you got no idea what Flanders is...

Yes but jews are usually leftist
I don't think people who vote one way or another are defined by their religion.

Catholics don't vote Conservative. Jews don't vote Socialist. Muslims don't vote etc etc.

People vote.

ahh...geographically challenged. I guess you got no idea what Flanders is...

Isn't he Homers next door neighbour?

LOL. Maybe you are too skinny and there is some vitamin B deficiency in you and you forget what you have just read while you were replying.

*hint: no space at the title*Dang. I hope I don't see you bitching about personal attacks anytime soon.

ahh...geographically challenged. I guess you got no idea what Flanders is...

Yes, I do sir. The Flemish, or Dutch speaking region of Belgium, where the Vlaams Belang party operates, and advocates independence of.

Linky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanders)

And here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flemish_independence):

The Flemish independence movement seeks independence for Flanders, currently part of Belgium.

The political parties who advocate Flemish independence are the Vlaams Belang and the N-VA.

All Quotes on Vlaams Belange taken from the wiki:

Changes to the party platform have been made to allow it to comply with the law, and the motto of Vlaams Blok, Eigen volk eerst ("Own people first"), has been dropped, though it is still used by party leaders in meetings.

good news from Belgium

Full and unconditional amnesty for people convicted for collaboration with Nazi Germany after WWII.

good news from Belgium

Opposition to the law enabling same-sex marriage, and opposition to the law proposal enabling adoption by same-sex couples.

good news from Belgium

Some members, such as Roeland Raes have been accused of being Nazi sympathizers. Roeland Raes was charged with negationism in accordance with the Belgian Negationism Law, specifically for uttering the following controversial sentence: “whether it was planned that they should all die during the war is another question”. During the interview, Raes however had no doubts about the systematic persecution and deportation of the Jews by the nazis. The original complaint goes back to 2001. In the meanwhile, the master video tape with the full interview, was lost. Early 2006, at the Public Prosecutor’s request and after a hearing in chambers, the charges were dropped, but after an appeal by the Forum of Jewish Organisations, the case was resumed.

good news from Belgium

Policians, like prime minister Guy Verhofstadt (VLD), Karel De Gucht (VLD) and the late Pim Fortuyn have called the Vlaams Belang or its leaders "fascist."

good news from Belgium

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who is known to be a liberal political critic of Islam in the Netherlands, and to whom Vlaams Belang on different occasions referred to defend its points of view on Islam, called the party "a racist, anti-Semitic, extremist party that is unkind to women and that should be outlawed."

good news from Belgium

Nice idea of good news you have Ny. Still, at least you've come clean and outed yourself as a racist and a fascist now.

Quality response:D

Good GOD, just read the wiki. That's a hideous political party.

Repeal of the anti-racism and anti-discrimination legislations on the grounds of free speech.
LOL... sure.

The party doesn't even make any sense.
Opposition to the law proposal enabling adoption by same-sex couples.
Vlaams Belang wants to take care of unexpected pregnancies by an elaborated attendance and a relaxation of the adoption and foster parents laws.

Reperation for Nazi Collaborators...?

Hmmm. This thread begins to make more sense...

All Quotes on Vlaams Belange taken from the wiki:
...
snip
...
Nice idea of good news you have Ny. Still, at least you've come clean and outed yourself as a racist and a fascist now.
http://fails.org/owned.jpg

http://limewoody.wordpress.com/files/2006/03/aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again2.jpg

Jews are usually leftist? How exactly do you figure that one out? In Israel, for example, I'm fairly sure that many of the ruling parties have been right-wing and well-supported.

That's a joke. You're fairly sure wrong.
Israel's 'natural' leading party has always been Labour, which formed the first few decades of government. Israel was based on socialism, and is still has one of the most generous social safety nets in the world. And for the record, no government in Israel is ever partiularly well-supported. they are all minority coalitions, ranging in weakness, abut usually on one brink or another.
Let alone that Israel's politics don't remotely represent those of Jews in the diaspora voting in their countries.

That's a joke. You're fairly sure wrong.
Israel's 'natural' leading party has always been Labour, which formed the first fe decades of government. Israel was based on socialism, and is still has one of the most generous social safety nets in the world. And for the record, no government in Israel is ever partiularly well-supported. they are all minority coalitions, ranging in weakness, abut usually on one brink or another.

Hmmm. Well, I apologise then. I think I need to have a word with the Israeli I talk to about the perceptions I get about Israel from him.

Hmmm. Well, I apologise then. I think I need to have a word with the Israeli I talk to about the perceptions I get about Israel from him.
Getting 'perceptions' of Israel from one Israeli is never a very good idea, unless you do alot of reading as well.

That's a joke. You're fairly sure wrong.
Israel's 'natural' leading party has always been Labour, which formed the first few decades of government. Israel was based on socialism, and is still has one of the most generous social safety nets in the world. And for the record, no government in Israel is ever partiularly well-supported. they are all minority coalitions, ranging in weakness, abut usually on one brink or another.
Let alone that Israel's politics don't remotely represent those of Jews in the diaspora voting in their countries.

In foreign policy, Israel was very right-wing during the Cold War. It severed relations with virtually all of the Eastern Bloc countries in the aftermath of the Six Day War, supported anticommunist insurgents throughout the world, and generously supported West-leaning dictators like Mobutu. It even helped apartheid South Africa develop nuclear weapons, even though its government was comprised of pro-Nazi bigoted assholes.

okily dokily! That's just darn tootin' fantastiroony!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/50/C-flanders.png

Props to the VB.

Maybe Western Europe's apparent descent to cultural suicide isn't irreversible after all.

Keep it up. :D

In foreign policy, Israel was very right-wing during the Cold War. It severed relations with virtually all of the Eastern Bloc countries in the aftermath of the Six Day War, supported anticommunist insurgents throughout the world, and generously supported West-leaning dictators like Mobutu. It even helped apartheid South Africa develop nuclear weapons, even though its government was comprised of pro-Nazi bigoted assholes.Israel had a clear interest in opposing the communist bloc. They had a record of helping out the Arabs who were attacking every few years. Israel's foreign policy isn't necessarily the best measurement of it's government's social ideologies, since it has been a country threatened by war and obliteration since it's birth. I was pointing out that historically, Israel has a very stong socialist bent (still preserved in the strong union movement, and the large social programs) since this was the ideology that was possesed by the people that built the Jesish settlement in Israel, and then eventually built the county - they largely came from Russia in the teens and twenties, and were strongly infuenced by communism. That Israel's foreign interest was never shared with that of soviet Russia, is merely a fact - it doesn't make anyone more right wing or left wing for that matter.

Israel had a clear interest in opposing the communist bloc. They had a record of helping out the Arabs who were attacking every few years. Israel's foreign policy isn't necessarily the best measurement of it's government's social ideologies, since it has been a country threatened by war and obliteration since it's birth. I was pointing out that historically, Israel has a very stong socialist bent (still preserved in the strong union movement, and the large social programs) since this was the ideology that was possesed by the people that built the Jesish settlement in Israel, and then eventually built the county - they largely came from Russia in the teens and twenties, and were strongly infuenced by communism. That Israel's foreign interest was never shared with that of soviet Russia, is merely a fact - it doesn't make anyone more right wing or left wing for that matter.

Domestically, Israel's left-leaning, but in regards to foreign policy, it was right-leaning. If I recall, they also supported the contras.

Props to the VB.

Maybe Western Europe's apparent descent to cultural suicide isn't irreversible after all.

Keep it up. :D

Yeah, we really enjoyed the finer things in life way back in the forties...

Yeah, we really enjoyed the finer things in life way back in the forties...

?

?
Forties = WW2

?

Well, the VB are right-wing Nazi Apoligist scum ("Full and unconditional amnesty for people convicted for collaboration with Nazi Germany after WWII."). I was pointing out that we did have Nazi Scum we weren't a cultural utopia and NM is quite wrong in his opinions about Nazi Apoligists being the cure for our "cultural suicide".

Oh, NN, you've outdone yourself. In an apparent effort to show how "villagers with torches" are just "intellectually challenged" when they so slanderously call you a racist, you've cheered on the rise of a bigoted, racist party, justifying it by saying those "usually leftist" Jews support said party.

About the only ones who will agree with you on any of this is the likes of New Mitanni... in other words, *other* racist, fascist trolls on this forum. I'll take the villagers with torches over the brownshirts any day, pal.

Well, the VB are right-wing Nazi Apoligist scum ("Full and unconditional amnesty for people convicted for collaboration with Nazi Germany after WWII."). I was pointing out that we did have Nazi Scum we weren't a cultural utopia and NM is quite wrong in his opinions about Nazi Apoligists being the cure for our "cultural suicide".

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification. :)

"Some Jews surprisingly don't like Muslims" shocker.

Domestically, Israel's left-leaning, but in regards to foreign policy, it was right-leaning. If I recall, they also supported the contras.
in foriegn policy, israel allied themself with europe and later the USA, while the arabs supported by the soviets.
economically, I don't sure we are left-leaning. the welfare state model from the first decades mostly harmed in the 90's, while more capitalistic laws have been passed.
socially, the courts are left-leaning and they affected the society, but since the religious parties were in any goverment, there aren't political advancement in those areas.

it all depend, by your definitions.

Jews are usually leftist? How exactly do you figure that one out? In Israel, for example, I'm fairly sure that many of the ruling parties have been right-wing and well-supported.

Nope, Israel is collectivist to its very core, it has one of the most extensive taxation-spending programs of any nation.

But I get your point that it is wrong to place a political persuasion onto every member of a specific ethnicity. But hey, this is Ny Nordland, the guy who thinks that every Muslim is Osama bin Laden.

In foreign policy, Israel was very right-wing during the Cold War. It severed relations with virtually all of the Eastern Bloc countries in the aftermath of the Six Day War, supported anticommunist insurgents throughout the world, and generously supported West-leaning dictators like Mobutu. It even helped apartheid South Africa develop nuclear weapons, even though its government was comprised of pro-Nazi bigoted assholes.

You can't assign foreign policy on a left-right axis, it is a nonsense.

actualy the article is wrong. it are the first elections in which the VB has lost.

Dewinter predicted that they would have 35% in Antwerpen, but they 'only' gained +0.5% and now have 33.5%. But this is compared to the previous local elections, in comparison with the previous Flemish elections the VB actually lost some votes. they also were the largest party in Antwerpen and now they are the second largest party, after the social democrats, led by the mayor, Janssens.

The VB also said that they would gain a majority of votes in at least one of the districts of Antwerpen, wich did not happen.

In Gent, the biggest city in my area, they lost 1.5%, and the leading coalition, social democrats (SPA) with liberal democrats (VLD)(liberal democrats =/= liberals in the American meaning of the word) won some power, due to the 6.5% that the SPA gained. The greens also gained 3%.

the statistics show growth for the VB but this is mostly due to the fact that in a lot of towns you could only vote for them for the first time. So in those communities they gained 10%.

the only real winner of the elections is the CD&V (christian democrats) wich won in most 'rural' communities. In the larger towns most of the time the SPA won. The biggest losers of the elections are the VLD and, to a lesser extent the greens. In zelzate, the town where most of my friends live, the PVDA (a socialist party) gained 9% and now has +-20%.

the reason why the VB never is asked to actually take part in governement is because they don't have realistic ideas. they only gained as much votes as they do because the leaders are top-class demagogues (i hate the party because of their ideas, but i must admire their leaders because of their rhetorical skills, of course the same can be said about Hitler). they also have a million faces. they probably gained support from some jews because they were going to protect them from the Islamic terrorists, and gained support from some Muslims because they were going to protect them from the Jews.
to the youth they take a very mild stance on most things and say that they would invest a lot in stuff like sports, culture and other stuff that appeals to most younger people. But a few hours later the same people say to some elderly people that they would make a curfew for the youth against all their noise etc.
well i could go on for hours, and my post probably is pretty incoherent/full of mistakes, but my keyboard is overheating.

Meh.

Somehow I find North Korea doing nuclear testing and Russia reverting back into a totalitarian state slightly more important.

Props to the VB.

Maybe Western Europe's apparent descent to cultural suicide isn't irreversible after all.

Keep it up. :D

Exactly, we all know it was the Nazis who are responsible for saving europe from its own destructive self....oh wait.

http://www.germannotes.com/hist_ww2_dresden.jpg

NN has done a runner. I can't wait to see how he'll explain this.

Yes but jews are usually leftist and I find it interesting when they vote for anti-immigrant parties.
I find gays voting for neo-cons interesting as well (if they do).
I find gays voting for any of the two American mainstream parties to be idiots. :) Of course, I think I am the only libertarian-monarchist gay person here. ^^

Be that as it may, I think this is good! I support secessions wherever they may arise. I hope this party gets its way with regard to that. Plus, who can resist the sexy Anke Van Der Meersch! :D Or her fashion sense anyway. :)

It even helped apartheid South Africa develop nuclear weapons, even though its government was comprised of pro-Nazi bigoted assholes.
Ermm, there were Nazi elements in the government, but it sided with the Allies. It even discriminated against Germans within SA at the time on this basis.

I find gays voting for any of the two American mainstream parties to be idiots. :) Of course, I think I am the only libertarian-monarchist gay person here. ^^
I'd say that makes perfect sense actually. Whatever my disagreements with their economic policies, the libertarians are pretty sound on social issues. Do you want Prince Charles? We can't work out what to do with him.

Be that as it may, I think this is good! I support secessions wherever they may arise. I hope this party gets its way with regard to that. Plus, who can resist the sexy Anke Van Der Meersch! :D Or her fashion sense anyway. :)
Dude, did you read their policies? That's a bit like supporting Al Quaeda because you think they've got a great policy on organic farming.

I'd say that makes perfect sense actually. Whatever my disagreements with their economic policies, the libertarians are pretty sound on social issues. Do you want Prince Charles? We can't work out what to do with him.
I can think of much better ideas for Monarchs.

Dude, did you read their policies? That's a bit like supporting Al Quaeda because you think they've got a great policy on organic farming.
I'm aware of them - personally, I don't care. If they want to secede and form their own nation, all the better!



Nice idea of good news you have Ny. Still, at least you've come clean and outed yourself as a racist and a fascist now.
Would help if you could actually prove he is a fascist.

There are plenty of people who vote against their own interests, in place of other interests.I say,

Jewish voters are usually Pro-Israel

I say,

Jewish voters are usually Pro-Israel
and.. Pro-Israel voters.. will tend to vote for Pro-War parties.

Ermm, there were Nazi elements in the government, but it sided with the Allies. It even discriminated against Germans within SA at the time on this basis.

The Smuts government did, yes. But the National Party hated Smuts and everything he stood for. In fact, one future PM, Vorster, was imprisoned for pro-Nazi activism.

The Smuts government did, yes. But the National Party hated Smuts and everything he stood for. In fact, one future PM, Vorster, was imprisoned for pro-Nazi activism.
Yes, you're right - at the time it did have Nazi elements.

and.. Pro-Israel voters.. will tend to vote for Pro-War parties.

No, they won't.

Props to the VB.

Maybe Western Europe's apparent descent to cultural suicide isn't irreversible after all.

Keep it up. :DMitläufer.

Nice idea of good news you have Ny. Still, at least you've come clean and outed yourself as a racist and a fascist now.

This is news how?:confused:

This is news how?:confused:
The honesty is news as opposed to the ideology. ;)

and.. Pro-Israel voters.. will tend to vote for Pro-War parties.

Wow. What a stupid thing to say.

A large part of the reason why Western Europe still has Jewish communities is because those Jews are anti-Zionist, otherwise, generally, they would be living in Israel.

At the same time, they are obviously not anti-Israel, as they probably friends and family there, and would rightly oppose any Government that wishes to cease support of Israel and allow six million Jews to be massacred by Syrian hordes.

And pro-War? What War exactly are we talking about here?

All Quotes on Vlaams Belange taken from the wiki:


Full and unconditional amnesty for people convicted for collaboration with Nazi Germany after WWII.


Nice idea of good news you have Ny. Still, at least you've come clean and outed yourself as a racist and a fascist now.

Quality response:D

Reperation for Nazi Collaborators...?

Hmmm. This thread begins to make more sense...

http://fails.org/owned.jpg

Well, the VB are right-wing Nazi Apoligist scum ("Full and unconditional amnesty for people convicted for collaboration with Nazi Germany after WWII."). I was pointing out that we did have Nazi Scum we weren't a cultural utopia and NM is quite wrong in his opinions about Nazi Apoligists being the cure for our "cultural suicide".

Oh, NN, you've outdone yourself. In an apparent effort to show how "villagers with torches" are just "intellectually challenged" when they so slanderously call you a racist, you've cheered on the rise of a bigoted, racist party, justifying it by saying those "usually leftist" Jews support said party.

About the only ones who will agree with you on any of this is the likes of New Mitanni... in other words, *other* racist, fascist trolls on this forum. I'll take the villagers with torches over the brownshirts any day, pal.

Now lets finish the quote:


Vlaams Belang claims that many convicts were victims of excesses by the Belgian judiciary system against Flemish nationalists. It also states that it has "equal respect" for the suffering of all the victims during the years of war and the repression afterwards, regardless of whichever side they had sided with, or of whichever side the Belgian judiciary maintained that they had sided with. It states that all other European countries have already granted amnesty, and that the 1961 Belgian "Vermeylen" law is no general amnesty law such as in the Netherlands or France, it only possibly grants amnesty after expressing regret about the actions committed.


I think that pretty much answers the moronic posts, or should I say "bahhhhhs" from our NSG sheeps, who, I'm sure, can also carry torches in their sheep feet when they are walking around with their herd.

All Quotes on Vlaams Belange taken from the wiki:



Nice idea of good news you have Ny. Still, at least you've come clean and outed yourself as a racist and a fascist now.

I'd prefer that to being socialist and stupid. Notice "would" though.

And I also see that you didnt notice "The neutrality of this article is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page." in the wiki page, but fine, let's follow your cheap source standarts.


Changes to the party platform have been made to allow it to comply with the law, and the motto of Vlaams Blok, Eigen volk eerst ("Own people first"), has been dropped, though it is still used by party leaders in meetings.


So?


Full and unconditional amnesty for people convicted for collaboration with Nazi Germany after WWII.


Answered previously.


Opposition to the law enabling same-sex marriage, and opposition to the law proposal enabling adoption by same-sex couples.


They dont oppose civil unions? I guess they'd be called "liberals" in USA.


Some members, such as Roeland Raes have been accused of being Nazi sympathizers. Roeland Raes was charged with negationism in accordance with the Belgian Negationism Law, specifically for uttering the following controversial sentence: “whether it was planned that they should all die during the war is another question”. During the interview, Raes however had no doubts about the systematic persecution and deportation of the Jews by the nazis. The original complaint goes back to 2001. In the meanwhile, the master video tape with the full interview, was lost. Early 2006, at the Public Prosecutor’s request and after a hearing in chambers, the charges were dropped, but after an appeal by the Forum of Jewish Organisations, the case was resumed.


So? Some members dont represent the whole party. Using a recent example, just because a man is a paedophile in the Republican Party, it doesnt mean that all republicans are paedophile.


Policians, like prime minister Guy Verhofstadt (VLD), Karel De Gucht (VLD) and the late Pim Fortuyn have called the Vlaams Belang or its leaders "fascist."


Let's finish the quote:


However, history professor Eric Defoort has stated the use of this terminology creates "a distorted image of their antagonist, whom they can then scold with missionary zeal." [33][34][35]



Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who is known to be a liberal political critic of Islam in the Netherlands, and to whom Vlaams Belang on different occasions referred to defend its points of view on Islam, called the party "a racist, anti-Semitic, extremist party that is unkind to women and that should be outlawed."



According to Vlaams Belang, Hirsi Ali had been misinformed. The party considered this to be part of a smear campaign. Vlaams Belang underlined that Hirsi Ali supposedly did the statement on the occasion of a debate organised by the left-liberal think tank Liberales, whose president is Dirk Verhofstadt. Vlaams Belang added that Dirk Verhofstadt is known for regularly publishing accusations against the party.[37] Vlaams Belang also wrote an open letter to Hirsi Ali.[38]

Now lets finish the quote:



I think that pretty much answers the moronic posts, or should I say "bahhhhhs" from our NSG sheeps, who, I'm sure, can also carry torches in their sheep feet when they are walking around with their herd.

No, actually nothing you posted was even relevant to what I wrote. Let alone does it answer anything. (Nothing really needs answering).

But maybe this sheep is just too moronic to understand the depths of your superior Nordic intellect, eh?

Now lets finish the quote:

..... It states that all other European countries have already granted amnesty, ...

I think that pretty much answers the moronic posts, or should I say "bahhhhhs" from our NSG sheeps, who, I'm sure, can also carry torches in their sheep feet when they are walking around with their herd.

I spent a while on google and was unable to crooborate this information. Please provide a link showing that at least one European country has granted amnesty to Nazi collaborators.

According to the anti-semitism websites that pop up when you enter 'amnesty for nazi collaborators',
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22AMNESTY+FOR+NAZI+COLLABORATORS%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
this Vlaams Belang party is the only group in Europe thinking about it.
http://www.resistances.be/enres01.html

I spent a while on google and was unable to crooborate this information. Please provide a link showing that at least one European country has granted amnesty to Nazi collaborators.

According to the anti-semitism websites that pop up when you enter 'amnesty for nazi collaborators',
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22AMNESTY+FOR+NAZI+COLLABORATORS%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
this Vlaams Belang party is the only group in Europe thinking about it.
http://www.resistances.be/enres01.html


The numbers of former Nazi officials able to return to government positions in West Germany as a result of the amnesty were daunting. By the summer of 1950, more than one-fourth of the section managers of new federal ministries were former Nazi Party members. By 1953, 30 percent of the positions in the national government, amounting to 15,000 jobs, were filled by persons who benefited from Article 131, which gave pension rights to officials who had served in the Nazi regime. Specifically, 40 percent of the Foreign Ministry, 42 percent of the Interior (i.e., Justice) Ministry, and 75 percent of the ministry dealing with Germans who had fled from Eastern Europe during or after the war were former officials of the Nazi government. Faced with Social Democratic anger and parliamentary investigations of the prevalence of former Nazi officials in the Foreign Ministry, Adenauer argued that their expertise made them essential. "I think we now need to finish with this sniffing out of Nazis," he said.

In such an atmosphere, not surprisingly, the number of prosecutions of Nazi-era crimes declined. The Bundestag passed a second amnesty law in 1954, which benefited those whose possible prison sentence would have been three years or less. The passage of the law strained the limits of consensus among the major parties to the breaking point. By 1955, the SPD parliamentarian Walter Menzel regretfully noted that "through this amnesty, all those who had so murderously and bestially assaulted helpless and defenseless people before 1945 were pardoned, so long as no more than three years in prison were to be expected. This is what most deeply wounds our sense of justice: that individuals were treated so differently and unequally before the courts."

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030310&s=herf031003

I'd prefer that to being socialist and stupid. Notice "would" though.Where as sadly you just manage the latter.

And I also see that you didnt notice "The neutrality of this article is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page." in the wiki page, but fine, let's follow your cheap source standarts.If you look at the discussion page, very little in the article is actually under dispute.And least I provide standarts.

So?So they still use a slogan previously found by the Belgian High Court to be racist.

Answered previously.

But when you combine that with the fact that many of its members were previously in the Vlaams Blok, a party known for its sympathies for Nazi collaborators, it means their motives for doing so are highly dubious.


They dont oppose civil unions? I guess they'd be called "liberals" in USA.

They're opposed to the current law allowing equality.


So? Some members dont represent the whole party. Using a recent example, just because a man is a paedophile in the Republican Party, it doesnt mean that all republicans are paedophile.Completely different situation. That Republican had not been charged with paedophlia and let into the party.



Let's finish the quote:So? That's the view of a single history professor. Surely you're not claiming that Pim Fortuyn, one of the critics, was a pro immigration politician?

This is all a smokescreen by you, to hide up the fact that you've overtly cheered for a racist and fascist party.

Where as sadly you just manage the latter.


Awwwwww...


If you look at the discussion page, very little in the article is actually under dispute.And least I provide standarts.


I know. Villager standarts. You are a socialist, man of the common people ;)


So they still use a slogan previously found by the Belgian High Court to be racist.


So what? Affirmative action aka positive discrimination is racist by dictionary definition. I dont see you angry villager types chanting against Labour Party.


But when you combine that with the fact that many of its members were previously in the Vlaams Blok, a party known for its sympathies for Nazi collaborators, it means their motives for doing so are highly dubious.


Pope was in Hitler youth as well. Besides, some collaborated with Nazis not because of racist resons but because of Flemish independence. Not very different from Finns and Baltic people. But dont let your kneejerk reactions dilluted by facts, it should be all you are used to.


They're opposed to the current law allowing equality.


Still they are more "liberal" than Democrats in USA when it comes to homosexuality.


Completely different situation. That Republican had not been charged with paedophlia and let into the party.


VBlok or VBelang hasnt been charged with Nazism neither. Racism and nazism arent same things. I guess you could call Nazism a distorted interpretation of racism, like paedophilia is a distorted interpretation of loving kids without any sexuality. Afterall, you can despise jews without arguing for their termination.


So? That's the view of a single history professor. Surely you're not claiming that Pim Fortuyn, one of the critics, was a pro immigration politician?


Pim Fortyn was more left than Tories, it's normal that he criticize VB.


This is all a smokescreen by you, to hide up the fact that you've overtly cheered for a racist and fascist party.

Despite, your kind's angry chantings might be enough in village hall, I suggest you to look up what fascism means. You are sounding more like a broken record with every post.

I think that pretty much answers the moronic posts, or should I say "bahhhhhs" from our NSG sheeps, who, I'm sure, can also carry torches in their sheep feet when they are walking around with their herd.Funny, you seem more of a Mitläufer than any of us.

Pim Fortyn was more left than Tories, it's normal that he criticize VB. Bullshit. Pim Forteyn was a rightwing populist. He just happened to be homosexual to, which makes it obvious why he criticized VB.

Funny, you seem more of a Mitläufer than any of us.

And I find you usually mykkä.

Bullshit. Pim Forteyn was a rightwing populist. He just happened to be homosexual to, which makes it obvious why he criticized VB.

Oh a gay leader of Tories?

Oh a gay leader of Tories?Your "is more left" was rather misleading. Pim Forteyn is nowhere near left.

Your "is more left" was rather misleading. Pim Forteyn is nowhere near left.

Immigration isnt everything. I cant imagine Labour having a gay leader, let alone Tories.

Immigration isnt everything. I cant imagine Labour having a gay leader, let alone Tories.Tolerance of homosexuality isn't everything either.

Funny, you seem more of a Mitläufer than any of us.

A what? :confused:

Immigration isnt everything. I cant imagine Labour having a gay leader, let alone Tories.
He made his own party. :)

As I recall, Fortuyn was anti-immigration with regard to cultures which he considered incompatible - he was more culturally-minded than racially-minded.

A what? :confused:

Mitlaufer, german, translated off the top of my head "with runner" or "someone who runs with the pack/herd"

He was saying that Nordland is the one with a herding instinct problem.

Wow. What a stupid thing to say.

A large part of the reason why Western Europe still has Jewish communities is because those Jews are anti-Zionist, otherwise, generally, they would be living in Israel.

At the same time, they are obviously not anti-Israel, as they probably friends and family there, and would rightly oppose any Government that wishes to cease support of Israel and allow six million Jews to be massacred by Syrian hordes.

And pro-War? What War exactly are we talking about here?I have no idea what you imagine the word 'zionist' means, but the above statement contains a contradiction. Being anti-zionist would make you automatically anti-israel, since zionism is the thing that anteceded Israel. basically, it was the political movement that began the immingration of Jews to Israel, and eventually the establishemnt of the Jewish state. Being a Zionist is basically someone that thinks Jews legitimately have a state in Israel. It doesn't mean you personally want to move there.
Notwithstanding that bone to pick, I concur that Occean is letting his stupid show again.

Mitlaufer, german, translated off the top of my head "with runner" or "someone who runs with the pack/herd"

He was saying that Nordland is the one with a herding instinct problem.The term also refers specifically to the people that weren't exactly nazis themselves, but tagged along with the apparatus and became loyal citizens of the Reich. NN doesn't have a genocidal agenda, so he's not really a nazi, but he does flaunt his racist ideology and I have no doubts as to who's side he'd be marching on if worst comes to worst, shown rather elegantly in his support for a neo-nazi party on the basis that it is "anti-immigrant".

The numbers of former Nazi officials able to return to government positions in West Germany as a result of the amnesty were daunting. By the summer of 1950, more than one-fourth of the section managers of new federal ministries were former Nazi Party members. By 1953, 30 percent of the positions in the national government, amounting to 15,000 jobs, were filled by persons who benefited from Article 131, which gave pension rights to officials who had served in the Nazi regime. Specifically, 40 percent of the Foreign Ministry, 42 percent of the Interior (i.e., Justice) Ministry, and 75 percent of the ministry dealing with Germans who had fled from Eastern Europe during or after the war were former officials of the Nazi government. Faced with Social Democratic anger and parliamentary investigations of the prevalence of former Nazi officials in the Foreign Ministry, Adenauer argued that their expertise made them essential. "I think we now need to finish with this sniffing out of Nazis," he said.

In such an atmosphere, not surprisingly, the number of prosecutions of Nazi-era crimes declined. The Bundestag passed a second amnesty law in 1954, which benefited those whose possible prison sentence would have been three years or less. The passage of the law strained the limits of consensus among the major parties to the breaking point. By 1955, the SPD parliamentarian Walter Menzel regretfully noted that "through this amnesty, all those who had so murderously and bestially assaulted helpless and defenseless people before 1945 were pardoned, so long as no more than three years in prison were to be expected. This is what most deeply wounds our sense of justice: that individuals were treated so differently and unequally before the courts."http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030310&s=herf031003
And it was shameful. Luckily, the German populace didn't take it with the same enthusiasm as the Allied Command and the student movements of the late 60s and 70s put an end to that amnesty crap and publicly denounced the bastards that got away with it.

The term also refers specifically to the people that weren't exactly nazis themselves, but tagged along with the apparatus and became loyal citizens of the Reich. NN doesn't have a genocidal agenda, so he's not really a nazi, but he does flaunt his racist ideology and I have no doubts as to who's side he'd be marching on if worst comes to worst, shown rather elegantly in his support for a neo-nazi party on the basis that it is "anti-immigrant".

VB is neo-nazi now? :rolleyes:

VB is neo-nazi now? :rolleyes:


Well duh, they've always been neo-nazi (or just nazi, it's easier) and they'll probably stay it for ever. If you would live in Belgium you would know what they really stand for, of course you don't see any of that in there political program, because it's all racist things and that's illegal in Belgium.

VB is neo-nazi now? :rolleyes:You didn't know? I'm not surprised. I had to point out to you that "Angry White Female" was a white supremacist.

VB is neo-nazi now? :rolleyes:

Obviously

Well duh, they've always been neo-nazi (or just nazi, it's easier) and they'll probably stay it for ever. If you would live in Belgium you would know what they really stand for, of course you don't see any of that in there political program, because it's all racist things and that's illegal in Belgium.

What makes you think that they are neo-nazi?

What makes you think that they are neo-nazi?Yeah!?! They dont SPELL Neo-Nazi in their site, do they??? SO how can you say that!?!

Yeah!?! They dont SPELL Neo-Nazi in their site, do they??? SO how can you say that!?!
Offer a real response if you're capable of doing so.

Offer a real response if you're capable of doing so.

I wouldnt hold my breath :D

http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11767

http://www.thejewishweek.com/upload/Mishpacha1.gif

"With his vow to protect Antwerp Jews from Muslim immigrants, Filip Dewinter is catching on among some in the community despite his far-right party. He could be the city’s next mayor and a force on the continent."

Polls are suggesting that Filip Dewinter, chairman of the Vlaams Belang (Flemish Interest) Party in Antwerp, could become the Belgian city’s next mayor and the most successful far-right politician in Europe, bypassing the likes of Jean-Marie Le Pen in France and Jorg Haider in Austria.

Perhaps surprising is that Dewinter, who has been called a “Haider without the anti-Semitic background,” is reaching out to the city’s 20,000 Jews and receiving support from a small but growing number.

They are seeing Dewinter, 43, in a more favorable light because of his pledge to protect the Jews from attacks by Muslim immigrants who come mostly from Morocco and Turkey, according to Hans Knoop, a retired Dutch journalist who now runs his own media consulting agency and has lived in Belgium since 1990.

Orthodox rabbis openly support him, and he has started a charm campaign to the Orthodox community and to Israelis,” Knoop said. “He gave an interview to [the Israeli newspaper Haaretz] in which he said there is a danger from the left and from Muslims. He is successful because some Jews fall for his charms. They say that if he hates the Arabs, he is our friend.”

http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11767

http://www.thejewishweek.com/upload/Mishpacha1.gif

"With his vow to protect Antwerp Jews from Muslim immigrants, Filip Dewinter is catching on among some in the community despite his far-right party. He could be the city’s next mayor and a force on the continent."

Polls are suggesting that Filip Dewinter, chairman of the Vlaams Belang (Flemish Interest) Party in Antwerp, could become the Belgian city’s next mayor and the most successful far-right politician in Europe, bypassing the likes of Jean-Marie Le Pen in France and Jorg Haider in Austria.

Perhaps surprising is that Dewinter, who has been called a “Haider without the anti-Semitic background,” is reaching out to the city’s 20,000 Jews and receiving support from a small but growing number.

They are seeing Dewinter, 43, in a more favorable light because of his pledge to protect the Jews from attacks by Muslim immigrants who come mostly from Morocco and Turkey, according to Hans Knoop, a retired Dutch journalist who now runs his own media consulting agency and has lived in Belgium since 1990.

Orthodox rabbis openly support him, and he has started a charm campaign to the Orthodox community and to Israelis,” Knoop said. “He gave an interview to [the Israeli newspaper Haaretz] in which he said there is a danger from the left and from Muslims. He is successful because some Jews fall for his charms. They say that if he hates the Arabs, he is our friend.”


Ahh the jewish conspiracy at it again. First they will get neo-nazis in power and then errr wait. Ok, and then they'll ummm...Ok they are just bad jews, bad bad bad....

http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11767

http://www.thejewishweek.com/upload/Mishpacha1.gif

"With his vow to protect Antwerp Jews from Muslim immigrants, Filip Dewinter is catching on among some in the community despite his far-right party. He could be the city’s next mayor and a force on the continent."

Polls are suggesting that Filip Dewinter, chairman of the Vlaams Belang (Flemish Interest) Party in Antwerp, could become the Belgian city’s next mayor and the most successful far-right politician in Europe, bypassing the likes of Jean-Marie Le Pen in France and Jorg Haider in Austria.

Perhaps surprising is that Dewinter, who has been called a “Haider without the anti-Semitic background,” is reaching out to the city’s 20,000 Jews and receiving support from a small but growing number.

They are seeing Dewinter, 43, in a more favorable light because of his pledge to protect the Jews from attacks by Muslim immigrants who come mostly from Morocco and Turkey, according to Hans Knoop, a retired Dutch journalist who now runs his own media consulting agency and has lived in Belgium since 1990.

Orthodox rabbis openly support him, and he has started a charm campaign to the Orthodox community and to Israelis,” Knoop said. “He gave an interview to [the Israeli newspaper Haaretz] in which he said there is a danger from the left and from Muslims. He is successful because some Jews fall for his charms. They say that if he hates the Arabs, he is our friend.”

oh god, it looks like the clash of civilizations is going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Anybody know how to get a visa from switzerland?

oh god, it looks like the clash of civilizations is going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Anybody know how to get a visa from switzerland?

Its actually not that hard to beleive. Jews in Europe are more and more starting to feel unsafe, even more so in france, due to increases in Muslim immigration and extremism. Thus, the European Jewry is turning to the only people who realise the problem in Europe, and plan to take action on it. I'm Jewish, and if I lived in Belguim, I'd also vote for this party.

And btw, Swizterland doesnt want you, they dont like immigrants. ;)

oh god, it looks like the clash of civilizations is going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Anybody know how to get a visa from switzerland?

After the recent referendum, they wont let non-europeans in to live unless they are highly qualified.

Its actually not that hard to beleive. Jews in Europe are more and more starting to feel unsafe, even more so in france, due to increases in Muslim immigration and extremism. Thus, the European Jewry is turning to the only people who realise the problem in Europe, and plan to take action on it. I'm Jewish, and if I lived in Belguim, I'd also vote for this party.

And btw, Swizterland doesnt want you, they dont like immigrants. ;)

I wish they could repatriate some of the existing ones, then it'd be almost perfect.

Its actually not that hard to beleive. Jews in Europe are more and more starting to feel unsafe, even more so in france, due to increases in Muslim immigration and extremism. Thus, the European Jewry is turning to the only people who realise the problem in Europe, and plan to take action on it. I'm Jewish, and if I lived in Belguim, I'd also vote for this party.

And btw, Swizterland doesnt want you, they dont like immigrants. ;)

In 1945 the world said, "Never again." In 2006 it looks like the Jews are the only ones who remember that.

Its actually not that hard to beleive. Jews in Europe are more and more starting to feel unsafe, even more so in france, due to increases in Muslim immigration and extremism. Thus, the European Jewry is turning to the only people who realise the problem in Europe, and plan to take action on it. I'm Jewish, and if I lived in Belguim, I'd also vote for this party.
So paranoia is what will start WWIII.

And btw, Swizterland doesnt want you, they dont like immigrants. ;)

well shit. any other 100% neutral countries?

Isn't Sweden Neutral?

In 1945 the world said, "Never again." In 2006 it looks like the Jews are the only ones who remember that.

What, by wishing for another holocaust?

What, by wishing for another holocaust?
What are you on about? If I recall, the President of Iran was the one mentioning wiping Israel of the map, not the VB.

What, by wishing for another holocaust?

Amazing insights. I did laugh, thx...

Good night

So paranoia is what will start WWIII.
Its hardly paranoia. European Jewry are felling more and more unsafe. Desecration of cemetaries, of Temples or just simply anti-Jewish vandalising...or even attacks on Jews have been on the rise at the same rate as Islamic immigration Europe. France has a very anti-semetic attitude today, but it does not come from the government, nor the French (mostly). Want to guess who it comes from?


well shit. any other 100% neutral countries?

Isn't Sweden Neutral?
Sweden is in the EU but still pretty neutral. Still, if you are going to move there I suggest you stay the hell out of Gothenburg, Malmo or Stockholm, mostly the former two.;)

What are you on about? If I recall, the President of Iran was the one mentioning wiping Israel of the map, not the VB.

If the VB gets elected they will Immediately begin setting up concentration camps. Islam will be criminalized, and muslims will systematically rounded up and eliminated. We are on the verge of another genocide, possibly worse than the holocaust. I am officially afraid of my own civilization.

What, by wishing for another holocaust?
Oh, what the fuck????

"Wishing for another holocaust"?????/
NO....the clash of civilizations between Islam and the West, Western Jews just get it worse because of the already existing clash between Jews and Muslims.

Wtf, "wishing for another holocaust", where did you pull that from?

If the VB gets elected they will Immediately begin setting up concentration camps. Islam will be criminalized, and muslims will systematically rounded up and eliminated. We are on the verge of another genocide, possibly worse than the holocaust. I am officially afraid of my own civilization.
Prove what you say. Because all I see is conspiracy theories and nonsense. The VB is a secessionist party - it wants the Flanders to break apart from Belgium. Not create its own Reich within the country...

I would be more afraid of fools like the President of Iran, by the way, or the radical elements within Western societies actually causing all this ruckus.

If the VB gets elected they will Immediately begin setting up concentration camps. Islam will be criminalized, and muslims will systematically rounded up and eliminated. We are on the verge of another genocide, possibly worse than the holocaust. I am officially afraid of my own civilization.

Where do you get these concpiracy theories for? By your logic, we should already see this holocaust happening in Denmark, who have already largely elected anti-Muslim/anti-immigrant parties.

But why arnt we????

I can't prove a damn thing, I know that. I am also equally sure that a huge atrocity is about to happen.

Best case scenario: Muslims are simply rounded up and thrown in detention centers, like the japanese were in WWII.

Worst case: allah-schwitz

Think about the way jews were thought of in 1920s germany, now think about the way muslims/arabs are thought of today. I see no difference.

I can't prove a damn thing, I know that. I am also equally sure that a huge atrocity is about to happen.

Best case scenario: Muslims are simply rounded up and thrown in detention centers, like the japanese were in WWII.

Worst case: allah-schwitz

Think about the way jews were thought of in 1920s germany, now think about the way muslims/arabs are thought of today. I see no difference.
Okay so basically unsubstantiated guesswork. Great. With regard to a secessionist party, of all things. Brilliant.

Okay so basically unsubstantiated guesswork. Great. With regard to a secessionist party, of all things. Brilliant.

Yup, i'll just keep my madness to myself. Don't say I didn't warn you.

I can't prove a damn thing, I know that. I am also equally sure that a huge atrocity is about to happen.

Best case scenario: Muslims are simply rounded up and thrown in detention centers, like the japanese were in WWII.

Worst case: allah-schwitz

Think about the way jews were thought of in 1920s germany, now think about the way muslims/arabs are thought of today. I see no difference.

I see a big difference. Jews of the 20's/30's = tiny minorities that were non-violent, keeping to them selves, yet somehow blamed for controlling the worlds governments and money.

Muslims today = looked upon for their incompatible culture in europe, for their gangs, violence, rapes, and creation of inner-city (off limits to Whites) ghettos. Also for their views on women, and basically 19th century European liberalism. GAINING IN MASSIVE NUMBERS.

I see a big difference. Jews of the 20's/30's = tiny minorities that were non-violent, keeping to them selves, yet somehow blamed for controlling the worlds governments and money.

Muslims today = looked upon for their incompatible culture in europe, for their gangs, violence, rapes, and creation of inner-city (off limits to Whites) ghettos. Also for their views on women, and basically 19th century European liberalism. GAINING IN MASSIVE NUMBERS.

I rest my case.

Neither of you have attempted to disprove that it will happen. All you two have done is attempted to justify genocide. Thinking such as this, is what scares me.

I rest my case.
And? The Jewish shit was clearly nazi propoganda, like the distribution of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

The Muslims stuff is happening today before our eyes, anyone can see it. How do you rest your case?

I rest my case.

Neither of you have attempted to disprove that it will happen. All you two have done is attempted to justify genocide. Thinking such as this, is what scares me.

No, not genocide. Perhaps getting a control on immigration, though.

I rest my case.
Why not actually disprove what he is saying then? The Jews were in fact affluent members of German (and European, in general) society. The reason they were so hated is because it was believed they practised an evil, dirty kind of capitalism, as opposed to the noble German Junker, and that they were engineering the destruction of the white race through multiculturalism. All nonsense of course. It's highly different though.

I rest my case.

Neither of you have attempted to disprove that it will happen. All you two have done is attempted to justify genocide. Thinking such as this, is what scares me.

I haven't really been following this conversation, but I don't think anyone is advocating genocide.

Why not actually disprove what he is saying then? The Jews were in fact affluent members of German (and European, in general) society. The reason they were so hated is because it was believed they practised an evil, dirty kind of capitalism, as opposed to the noble German Junker. All nonsense of course. It's highly different though.

Both are considered threats to society. Both were considered inhuman. Both were considered to be detrimental to western civilization. Both were feared to be gaining control of western governments. Both were marginalized minorities. Both were considered a foreign invasion force. Both were held under blanket generalizations. Both had a long history of being hated by european nations.

Offer a real response if you're capable of doing so.
Can I sig this?

It's not about you, nor am I keeping the 'quoted' part... can I? It's so fucking hilarious.... please.

I haven't really been following this conversation, but I don't think anyone is advocating genocide.

Everytime I bring it up I get; "well the muslims are <insert list of crimes/evils>.

No one has once said "that won't happen" or "that shouldn't/couldn't happen"

If I said, "OMG the VB is gonna kill the jews!"

I would get; "not gonna happen, cause we wont let them"
it shows that the thinking is already here, all we need is a charismatic leader.

It's their culture.

*nods*

Hello Tai! =)

Both are considered threats to society. Both were considered inhuman. Both were considered to be detrimental to western civilization. Both were feared to be gaining control of western governments. Both were marginalized minorities. Both were considered a foreign invasion force. Both were held under blanket generalizations. Both had a long history of being hated by european nations.

You make some good points, but the first thing you need to realize is that the Jews were hated as a collective, whereas nowadays most people will tell you that there are good Muslims and bad ones. The problem is that there is a very high number of "bad" ones. By bad I mean those who hate liberal values and Western societies.

However, no one is saying that all Muslims are bad.

Both are considered threats to society. Both were considered inhuman. Both were considered to be detrimental to western civilization.
Show me instances of Muslims being considered inhuman.

Both were feared to be gaining control of western governments.
I have never heard of such a fear with regard to Muslims.


Both were marginalized minorities.
They certainly aren't marginalized in the UK. In addition, all Jews were lumped together as subhuman members of a devil race - Muslims, by contrast, are at least not all lumped together.

Both were considered a foreign invasion force. Both were held under blanket generalizations.
Well, seeing as 40% of Muslims would support Sharia law in the UK according to a recent poll, I rest my case.

Both had a long history of being hated by european nations.
Europe was for centuries involved in warfare with Islamic nations, so duh. Christians under Islamic rule weren't exactly showered with affection.

You are making poor links.

Can I sig this?

It's not about you, nor am I keeping the 'quoted' part... can I? It's so fucking hilarious.... please.
Feel free to.

It's their culture.

*nods*

Hello Tai! =)

Ruffy, you know how much I hate the "its their culture" reply, did you say it just cuz I'm in the thread. :D

But if you wish to use it, I'll use this: "Its their culture in our land which is incompatible with our culture.

Yo, bitch, what up!:D

Everytime I bring it up I get; "well the muslims are <insert list of crimes/evils>.

No one has once said "that won't happen" or "that shouldn't/couldn't happen"

If I said, "OMG the VB is gonna kill the jews!"

I would get; "not gonna happen, cause we wont let them"
it shows that the thinking is already here, all we need is a charismatic leader.

That's because some of the Muslim immigrants are responsible for much of the social unrest in the West and Europe right now, so it's only natural to be angry at them, and forget that Muslims are individuals-there's good ones and bad ones. The question is, how many are good and how many are bad, and I fear that the bad ones, or at least the ones who are intolerant and have violent tendencies is dangerously high, especially in Europe.

You make some good points, but the first thing you need to realize is that the Jews were hated as a collective, whereas nowadays most people will tell you that there are good Muslims and bad ones. The problem is that there is a very high number of "bad" ones. By bad I mean those who hate liberal values and Western societies.

However, no one is saying that all Muslims are bad.
QFT.

Everytime I bring it up I get; "well the muslims are <insert list of crimes/evils>.

No one has once said "that won't happen" or "that shouldn't/couldn't happen"

If I said, "OMG the VB is gonna kill the jews!"

I would get; "not gonna happen, cause we wont let them"
it shows that the thinking is already here, all we need is a charismatic leader.

I think you´re going a bit overboard here. I can certainly agree they´re racist, fascist fuckwits, but I don´t think it´ll get that far.

QFT.

What's QFT? Not an insult, I hope?

What's QFT? Not an insult, I hope?
Hardly - a bit of dork lingo I picked up here. Means Quoted for Truth.

What's QFT? Not an insult, I hope?

Quoted for truth

I think you´re going a bit overboard here. I can certainly agree they´re racist, fascist fuckwits, but I don´t think it´ll get that far.

I think that the people who lead the parties like the BNP and the National Front are undeniably racist, and use clever language to hide their ambitions. However, most of the people who vote for them are just regular everyday folks who want to take their nations back and have law and order.

Hardly - a bit of dork lingo I picked up here. Means Quoted for Truth.

Oh, thanks. ;)

So, a Dutch-Belgian separatist party won a few town councils. What should I do, have a party?

Why the hell not? It's a party, after all.

Theres no reason a Jewish person couldn't be anti-immigrant or racist in some form or other.

In fact the jews have shown how racist and anti-immigrant they really are in "Israel"

In fact the jews have shown how racist and anti-immigrant they really are in "Israel"
Why the " "? We reserve those for the real non-countries out there. :)

In fact the jews have shown how racist and anti-immigrant they really are in "Israel"

Huh?

In fact the jews have shown how racist and anti-immigrant they really are in "Israel"

The Jews are immigrants and descnedants of immigrants to Israel, for the most part. I think by all accounts, it was the Palestinians that showed their hostility to immigrants and racism by the violence against the Jews they started.

As for racism, the Arab media shows things like the Jews need Muslim children's blood for matzvah. Doesn't get any more racist than that right there.

Why the " "? We reserve those for the real non-countries out there. :)

the " " is because I dont recognise "Israel" as a real or legitimate nation. As far as I'm concerned its still Palestine.

the " " is because I dont recognise "Israel" as a real or legitimate nation. As far as I'm concerned its still Palestine.
Okay, so I am just going to call you "Soviestan" because I don't recognise you as a real person. See, isn't this fun? :D

the " " is because I dont recognise "Israel" as a real or legitimate nation. As far as I'm concerned its still Palestine.

Why is this, may I ask?

the " " is because I dont recognise "Israel" as a real or legitimate nation. As far as I'm concerned its still Palestine.

Palestine never really existed, it was an Ottoman controlled land, handed over to the british after WWI. I believe palestine is the name of a region, I believe the one inbetween the Jordan and the Mediterranean or something like that.

The Jews are immigrants and descnedants of immigrants to Israel, for the most part. I think by all accounts, it was the Palestinians that showed their hostility to immigrants and racism by the violence against the Jews they started.

As for racism, the Arab media shows things like the Jews need Muslim children's blood for matzvah. Doesn't get any more racist than that right there.

As far as I know you cant move to Israel or become a citizen unless your a jew. thats racist.

As far as I know you cant move to Israel or become a citizen unless your a jew. thats racist.
Provide evidence to this effect. I know immigrants who live in Israel. So this sounds very flimsy to me, "Soviestan".

As far as I know you cant move to Israel or become a citizen unless your a jew. thats racist.

I don't think so, I thought Israel was something like 20% Arab, last time I checked

Okay, so I am just going to call you "Soviestan" because I don't recognise you as a real person. See, isn't this fun? :D

Ok. This is fun "Europa Maxima":D btw, I'm not sure that I am real ;) Although I still stand by my statement.

Ruffy, you know how much I hate the "its their culture" reply, did you say it just cuz I'm in the thread. :D

But if you wish to use it, I'll use this: "Its their culture in our land which is incompatible with our culture.

Yo, bitch, what up!:D

Aye.

I like that :p

Well of course it was! I'm bored.. very bored.. how are you, Mr. Florida?

Ok. This is fun "Europa Maxima":D btw, I'm not sure that I am real ;) Although I still stand by my statement.
Yes, amusing. Now, provide evidence or let it drop.

I don't think so, I thought Israel was something like 20% Arab, last time I checked

they arent immigrants though

they arent immigrants though

No their citizens.

As far as I know you cant move to Israel or become a citizen unless your a jew. thats racist.
Wrong. My uncle lives in Israel and isnt Jewish. Hes a member of some kind of strange Christian organization, but I'm not sure what its called.

Also, you do know that there are plenty of non-Jewish in Isarel. The holy city section of Jerusalem, is even divided into quarters, Jewish/Muslim/Christian/Armenian.

I've been there, its true.

Aye.

I like that :p

Well of course it was! I'm bored.. very bored.. how are you, Mr. Florida?

Ich bin gut, sehr gut. I'm just living the Floridian lifestyle, you know, tipping over Cuban rafts to Miami, wrestling gators, walking around with a hand gun, and participating in state-wide voter fraud, you know, normal Florida shit.

Hows it up there in Pennsylvania, eating those cheese steaks and hanging out with the Pennsylvania "Dutch"? :D

As far as I know you cant move to Israel or become a citizen unless your a jew. thats racist.

No, you can become a citizen, Israel has Arab citizens. I don't think you can move to Israel unless you're Jewish, however.

In all fairness, Israel does discriminate against its Arabs. For example, Arabs can't be drafted into the IDF, and they face housing and education discrimination, although it's nowhere near the level blacks faced in the US during jim crow, to give an example.

That being said, Israel treats its Arabs far better and affords them far greater freedom than the Islamic nations treat their Jews. There is simply no arguing that. It's a cold, hard fact. I'm not condoning what Israel does, there is certainly a deep-seated mistrust of Arabs, which in light of all the wars Israel has fought with Arabs is understandable. Not justifiable, but understandable.

In any case, Israel is a free, democratic, open society, the only one of its kind in the mid east. For this reason alone, I support Israel.

No, you can become a citizen, Israel has Arab citizens. I don't think you can move to Israel unless you're Jewish, however.
I believe you can move to it even. Who would want to though?

Who would want to though?

people who like oppressing and murdering Arabs

people who like oppressing and murdering Arabs
So where do bigots like you go?

Nice to see how anti-semitism has shifted political quadrants btw. :)

people who like oppressing and murdering Arabs

Ah, Jeez.

enough with the blanket generalizations...

No, you can become a citizen, Israel has Arab citizens.

Thats because they were born in Israel, so of course they are citizens. However if they were Arab immigrants, they couldnt gain citizenship.

Thats because they were born in Israel, so of course they are citizens. However if they were Arab immigrants, they couldnt gain citizenship.
You have yet to prove this.

So where do bigots like you go?

not to "Israel", thats for sure

Nice to see how anti-semitism has shifted political quadrants btw. :)

:confused:

Ich bin gut, sehr gut. I'm just living the Floridian lifestyle, you know, tipping over Cuban rafts to Miami, wrestling gators, walking around with a hand gun, and participating in state-wide voter fraud, you know, normal Florida shit.
Ahhh!

Floridian elitist you are!
Hows it up there in Pennsylvania, eating those cheese steaks and hanging out with the Pennsylvania "Dutch"? :D
The cheese steaks a great, the "Dutch" are lowering their pretzle quality.. :(

Soviestan, are you gonna totally ignore my posts, just cuz it helps your arguement??

:confused:
It's moved from a right-wing fetish to a left-wing one.

The cheese steaks a great, the "Dutch" are lowering their pretzle quality.. :(

I'm sorry to hear that. :( You know my family is orginally from Pennsylvania. We are also orignally Pennsylvania "Dutch", as thats where we settled coming from Germany.

I've always wondered, do you guys have good German beer up there?

It's moved from a right-wing fetish to a left-wing one.

lol, I'm not left wing

Soviestan, are you gonna totally ignore my posts, just cuz it helps your arguement??

does it really? I just thought the fact I'm right helped my argument.

lol, I'm not left wing
You're a self-designated welfare capitalist. That is left-wing.

Now, are you going to answer TAI's post and provide proof as I asked, or are you going to continue ignoring us? I'll construe any continued silence as an admission of defeat.

does it really? I just thought the fact I'm right helped my argument.
Prove it.

I'm sorry to hear that. :( You know my family is orginally from Pennsylvania. We are also orignally Pennsylvania "Dutch", as thats where we settled coming from Germany.

I've always wondered, do you guys have good German beer up there?

We have Yuengling, I think that's German.

Pretty sure..

Where in PA is your family from?

You're a self-designated welfare capitalist. That is left-wing.
ah yes, I used to be. Now I am very much pro-free market. Im right wing on a good number of other things aswell.

Now, are you going to answer TAI's post and provide proof as I asked, or are you going to continue ignoring us? I'll construe any continued silence as an admission of defeat.

I went on wiki and the Israeli gov. website, neither could confirm nor deny my point. However I know I have seen edvince of this in the past, if I find it you'll be the 1st to know.

I went on wiki and the Israeli gov. website, neither could confirm nor deny my point. However I know I have seen edvince of this in the past, if I find it you'll be the 1st to know.

Google is your friend.

ah yes, I used to be. Now I am very much pro-free market. Im right wing on a good number of other things aswell.
Good to hear.

We have Yuengling, I think that's German.

Pretty sure..

Where in PA is your family from?

Somewhere called Reading or something? Ring any bells? I'm not sure, I've never been there, I was born in Los Angeles, SoCal.

Somewhere called Reading or something? Ring any bells? I'm not sure, I've never been there, I was born in Los Angeles, SoCal.

I go shopping in Reading. :)

I think it's about 45 minutes away from here.

I went on wiki and the Israeli gov. website, neither could confirm nor deny my point. However I know I have seen edvince of this in the past, if I find it you'll be the 1st to know.

Inform yourself:

"How many non-Jewish Russians are there nowadays in Israel? How will they integrate into Israeli society? Is it true that some of them are frequently involved in anti-Semitic acts?
Tomas
Buenos Aires, Argentina

Lily Galili:
According to unofficial data, there are about 300,000 non-Jewish Russians currently living in Israel. Most of them do integrate into Israeli society. Of course, there are exceptions of individuals or groups who are becoming hostile to the state. Some of them, not many, get involved in anti-Semitic activities, such as graffiti or neo-Nazi websites. Since both phenomena are illegal, they should be dealt with as such."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/QA.jhtml?qaNo=59

I go shopping in Reading. :)

I think it's about 45 minutes away from here.

Whats it like? Is it a PA "Dutch" spot?

Yep, according to a friend of mine there, there are many ruskis wandering about. Amongst other foreign thingies. :)

Whats it like? Is it a PA "Dutch" spot?

Well Reading, from my own personal experience is.. it's ok, it has a Starbucks, so I like it.

Wiki might have some info..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading,_Pennsylvania

Well Reading, from my own personal experience is.. it's ok, it has a Starbucks, so I like it.
As Fiddles would put it, you're a Starbucksian. :)

Cool, and now I know. :cool: Danke schön.

Uh...are we still talking about Europe's fascist political parties that want to kill all Muslims?

Uh...are we still talking about Europe's fascist political parties that want to kill all Muslims?

Heh, I think that guy ran away to find his tinfoil hat.

As Fiddles would put it, you're a Starbucksian. :)
And proud!
Cool, and now I know. :cool: Danke schön.
*nods*
Uh...are we still talking about Europe's fascist political parties that want to kill all Muslims?
Sorry, it's my fault!

*leaves*

Wow. What a stupid thing to say.
()
And pro-War? What War exactly are we talking about here? What WAR are we talking about?
What WAR do you think?

hint.. Just read todays or tomorrow newspaper.. any newspaper US/EU/Belgium..

or.. If you prefer hi-lite the hidden answer...
US-vs-Iraq War.

What makes you think that they are neo-nazi?

Do you really know them?
I do, because i live in Belgium and I am confronted with these people almost everyday. If you'd live in Belgium and had some brains ( I don't say you don't) then you'd know that there nazis.

Do you really know them?
I do, because i live in Belgium and I am confronted with these people almost everyday. If you'd live in Belgium and had some brains ( I don't say you don't) then you'd know that there nazis.

QFT, the only difference is that they are a little more subtle about it.

As far as I know you cant move to Israel or become a citizen unless your a jew. thats racist.

So? Britain doesnt allow some whites to become police officers because they are white. That's racist as well.

Ah, Jeez.

enough with the blanket generalizations...

Take your advice yourself. Enough with blanket generalizations about anti-immigrant parties.

You're a self-designated welfare capitalist. That is left-wing.

Now, are you going to answer TAI's post and provide proof as I asked, or are you going to continue ignoring us? I'll construe any continued silence as an admission of defeat.

I'm welfare capitalist as well. Am I left wing? :eek:

Do you really know them?
I do, because i live in Belgium and I am confronted with these people almost everyday. If you'd live in Belgium and had some brains ( I don't say you don't) then you'd know that there nazis.

I'm asking you to explain because some people have funny ideas about who are nazis/neo nazis. When you say they are nazis, some people think like this:

If the VB gets elected they will Immediately begin setting up concentration camps. Islam will be criminalized, and muslims will systematically rounded up and eliminated. We are on the verge of another genocide, possibly worse than the holocaust. I am officially afraid of my own civilization.

I can't prove a damn thing, I know that. I am also equally sure that a huge atrocity is about to happen.

Best case scenario: Muslims are simply rounded up and thrown in detention centers, like the japanese were in WWII.

Worst case: allah-schwitz

Think about the way jews were thought of in 1920s germany, now think about the way muslims/arabs are thought of today. I see no difference.

Do you really think they are going to round up muslims and start killing them?

Do you really think they are going to round up muslims and start killing them?

Yes.

Yes.

I'm just curious, how old are you?

Yes.

i think you might be overreacting now, they would deport them, but killing, i don't think that would happen, maybe in the long run.

i think you might be overreacting now, they would deport them, but killing, i don't think that would happen, maybe in the long run.

I think even for the most racist people, the 20th century proved that you cant get rid of minorities by killing them.

I think even for the most racist people, the 20th century proved that you cant get rid of minorities by killing them.

you sure? why not kill the whole bunch? and then they can kill us, and on and on. besides, various hate-crime (if you use such a term) is an indication of thoughts otherwise IMO.

actualy the article is wrong. it are the first elections in which the VB has lost.

Dewinter predicted that they would have 35% in Antwerpen, but they 'only' gained +0.5% and now have 33.5%. But this is compared to the previous local elections, in comparison with the previous Flemish elections the VB actually lost some votes. they also were the largest party in Antwerpen and now they are the second largest party, after the social democrats, led by the mayor, Janssens.

The VB also said that they would gain a majority of votes in at least one of the districts of Antwerpen, wich did not happen.

In Gent, the biggest city in my area, they lost 1.5%, and the leading coalition, social democrats (SPA) with liberal democrats (VLD)(liberal democrats =/= liberals in the American meaning of the word) won some power, due to the 6.5% that the SPA gained. The greens also gained 3%.

the statistics show growth for the VB but this is mostly due to the fact that in a lot of towns you could only vote for them for the first time. So in those communities they gained 10%.

the only real winner of the elections is the CD&V (christian democrats) wich won in most 'rural' communities. In the larger towns most of the time the SPA won. The biggest losers of the elections are the VLD and, to a lesser extent the greens. In zelzate, the town where most of my friends live, the PVDA (a socialist party) gained 9% and now has +-20%.

the reason why the VB never is asked to actually take part in governement is because they don't have realistic ideas. they only gained as much votes as they do because the leaders are top-class demagogues (i hate the party because of their ideas, but i must admire their leaders because of their rhetorical skills, of course the same can be said about Hitler). they also have a million faces. they probably gained support from some jews because they were going to protect them from the Islamic terrorists, and gained support from some Muslims because they were going to protect them from the Jews.
to the youth they take a very mild stance on most things and say that they would invest a lot in stuff like sports, culture and other stuff that appeals to most younger people. But a few hours later the same people say to some elderly people that they would make a curfew for the youth against all their noise etc.
well i could go on for hours, and my post probably is pretty incoherent/full of mistakes, but my keyboard is overheating.

The reasons why they didnt become the first party in Antwerpen and other big cities:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=503140

And the article is correct. They are the biggest party in Flanders, arent they?

you sure? why not kill the whole bunch? and then they can kill us, and on and on. besides, various hate-crime (if you use such a term) is an indication of thoughts otherwise IMO.

Yes, I'm sure. There are hundreds of thousands of jews in Germany, no? And not to mention millions of immigrants.

I think even for the most racist people, the 20th century proved that you cant get rid of minorities by killing them.

well, as i said before, i don't think they will kill non-EU immigrants, but deporting them sounds bad enough IMO.
but racism isn't the only reason to dislike them.

I'm welfare capitalist as well. Am I left wing? :eek:
Social markets are considered at least centre-left. Not fully socialist though, so not highly left-wing. As for you, you do seem a bit centre-left (even with the anti-immigration stances in mind).

well, as i said before, i don't think they will kill non-EU immigrants, but deporting them sounds bad enough IMO.
but racism isn't the only reason to dislike them.
Then what are the other reasons? Please don't say because they want to secede - self-determination is quite a beautiful thing.

And the article is correct. They are the biggest party in Flanders, arent they?
Nope.

Then what are the other reasons? Please don't say because they want to secede - self-determination is quite a beautiful thing.

because they don't offer constructive solutions to the problems they exploit.
for instance: during a debate with the most important politicians from Antwerpen Fillip Dewinter said that when the VB would gain a majority in a district of Antwerp, they would hire private security people against criminality. but this is impossible because a district doesn't have anything to say about security (only about roads etc.).
so when people told him that this was impossible he said that it was a good example of how all the other politicians were against him.
i also dislike nationalism in general, especially when it's aggressive like that of the VB. Flanders really isn't exploited. i agree that some things should become less complicated and that some things would be better in the hands of Flanders and Wallonia than in the hands of the federal governement but a complete secession is way to much IMO.
the last reason is that i generaly dislike far-right politics. i prefer not to live in a police state.


And the article is correct. They are the biggest party in Flanders, arent they?

look for yourself (http://www.vrtnieuws.net/html/includes/vlaanderen/overzicht/index.shtml) the dark yellow are the communities where the VB is the largest party.

I think you mean orange. ;)

I think you mean orange. ;)
lol, yeah, that's it :D

Do you really think they are going to round up muslims and start killing them?I really think we should never give them the chance to find out.

I really think we should never give them the chance to find out.

good idea, but how are you going to stop them, politicians here are trying for years, and only the last elections weren't a clear victory for the VB.

because they don't offer constructive solutions to the problems they exploit.
for instance: during a debate with the most important politicians from Antwerpen Fillip Dewinter said that when the VB would gain a majority in a district of Antwerp, they would hire private security people against criminality. but this is impossible because a district doesn't have anything to say about security (only about roads etc.).
so when people told him that this was impossible he said that it was a good example of how all the other politicians were against him.
90% of politics is empty promises, non-solutions and stupid claims. How does this single them out?


i also dislike nationalism in general, especially when it's aggressive like that of the VB. Flanders really isn't exploited. i agree that some things should become less complicated and that some things would be better in the hands of Flanders and Wallonia than in the hands of the federal governement but a complete secession is way to much IMO.
Why is it? They can still trade with the rest of the EU, meaning it would be economically viable. I am behind all secession movements. Although even a movement towards a confederal government would be good enough.

the last reason is that i generaly dislike far-right politics. i prefer not to live in a police state.
Fair enough.

good idea, but how are you going to stop them, politicians here are trying for years, and only the last elections weren't a clear victory for the VB.
i was a member of the scalp once,not anymore.
i'm not a fascist,and will fight it beeing any color or option.
,the fact that we all base ourself to be different,doesn't mean we can not speak with them....

I think even for the most racist people, the 20th century proved that you cant get rid of minorities by killing them.

That's because the Nazis invaded Poland. They would have succeeded had there not been a war.

That's because the Nazis invaded Poland. They would have succeeded had there not been a war.
Their original plans were to deport minorities - not to kill them. It proved too costly later, and they had to resort to killing them.

Their original plans were to deport minorities - not to kill them. It proved too costly later, and they had to resort to killing them.I have my reservations as to the costs being the only motivation for opting away from the Madagascar option and going for extermination as the "Final Solution".

I have my reservations as to the costs being the only motivation for opting away from the Madagascar option and going for extermination as the "Final Solution".
Well, history is ultimately a matter of interpretation - but I think NN is correct in what he said - killing minorities to rid of them is teleologically ineffective and counter-productive. For years, for instance, anthropology was shunned as a "racist" science, even though Nazism was what gave it such a bad name.

90% of politics is empty promises, non-solutions and stupid claims. How does this single them out?

Why is it? They can still trade with the rest of the EU, meaning it would be economically viable. I am behind all secession movements. Although even a movement towards a confederal government would be good enough.


because their claims are especially damaging to our society. they stigmatise minorities. when the liberal democrats make the false claim that they will lower taxes it doesn't really have a nagative effect on society But when the VB keeps on saying that almost all our problems are because of Wallonia or immigrants, it does have a negative effect. it causes more racism and polarisation in our nation. this is because the more it is said the more people accept it as being something normal, and i don't think it is good that racism is considered normal.

a complete secession goes way to far imo. what should happen to national debts, what should happen with the military, and probably most important, what should happen with Brussels and the other bilangual communities.
(Brussel is our bilangual capital, with a Frencht speaking majority, but it is surrounded by Flanders. Flemish nationalists want Brussels in a Flemish state, but this would be rediculous because there is a large majority of Wallonians (is that a word?) living there)
so i think a secession would create more problems than it would solve. a confederation would be ok i think, but it should be a slow proces, and some things might even be discused on a federal level (military, foreign affairs, etc.) I would also like for some money to go from Flanders to Wallonia, since, in essence, that is the purpose of taxes; to redistribut wealth from the rich (Flanders) to the poor (Wallonia), but only to help them develop until they don't need it anymore.

the most important reason why i don't like the VB is because i have almost no viewpoints that are the same as theirs. they generaly tend to be authoritarian socialy and right-wing econmicaly, while i'm the complete opposite.

so i think a secession would create more problems than it would solve. a confederation would be ok i think, but it should be a slow proces, and some things might even be discused on a federal level (military, foreign affairs, etc.)
Anything would be an improvement.

I would also like for some money to go from Flanders to Wallonia, since, in essence, that is the purpose of taxes; to redistribut wealth from the rich (Flanders) to the poor (Wallonia), but only to help them develop until they don't need it anymore.
Now I support their secession 100%.

The purpose of taxes, by the way, is to finance the government.

the most important reason why i don't like the VB is because i have almost no viewpoints that are the same as theirs. they generaly tend to be authoritarian socialy and right-wing econmicaly, while i'm the complete opposite.
Tant pis pour toi. I'm extremely right-wing economically, socially liberal, but with conservative tendencies (ie paleolibertarian all-in-all) - and all of this in spite of being gay. :)

i was a member of the scalp once,not anymore.
i'm not a fascist,and will fight it beeing any color or option.
,the fact that we all base ourself to be different,doesn't mean we can not speak with them....

could you rephrase that? i don't really understand what you are talking about :confused:

could you rephrase that? i don't really understand what you are talking about :confused:
Me neither - his English isn't too good.

Allers, är du Svensk?

Now I support their secession 100%.
why? is it because you are against taxes (being right-wing econmically)?

why? is it because you are against taxes (being right-wing econmically)?
Not against taxes per se, but against most redistribution, and in such a form, most definitely so.

Not against taxes per se, but against most redistribution, and in such a form, most definitely so.

well, i think this is one of those things we will never agree on.

Anti-immigrant = EWWW!!!! :eek:

Anti-immigrant = EWWW!!!! :eek:
I believe I am starting to see what NN means by knee-jerk reactions. :)

because they don't offer constructive solutions to the problems they exploit.
for instance: during a debate with the most important politicians from Antwerpen Fillip Dewinter said that when the VB would gain a majority in a district of Antwerp, they would hire private security people against criminality. but this is impossible because a district doesn't have anything to say about security (only about roads etc.).
so when people told him that this was impossible he said that it was a good example of how all the other politicians were against him.
i also dislike nationalism in general, especially when it's aggressive like that of the VB. Flanders really isn't exploited. i agree that some things should become less complicated and that some things would be better in the hands of Flanders and Wallonia than in the hands of the federal governement but a complete secession is way to much IMO.
the last reason is that i generaly dislike far-right politics. i prefer not to live in a police state.



look for yourself (http://www.vrtnieuws.net/html/includes/vlaanderen/overzicht/index.shtml) the dark yellow are the communities where the VB is the largest party.


This link shows the results of coalitions. Not single parties. Oh and are you flemish or waloon?

That's because the Nazis invaded Poland. They would have succeeded had there not been a war.

Even if there had been no wars and they had completed the genocide and hidden it, someone sometime would discover it. Someone would feel guilty and it'd trigger this "not again" knee jerk reactions as well as sympathy for 3rd world people and the end result might not be different than todays world.

Their original plans were to deport minorities - not to kill them. It proved too costly later, and they had to resort to killing them.

Too costly because of the war situation. Besides, jews were wealthy. If Nazis banned them living in Germany, they'd have had easily left themselves.

This link shows the results of coalitions. Not single parties. Oh and are you flemish or waloon?

it is almost impossible to compare results if you're not going to count coalitions.
and i'm Flemish.

it is almost impossible to compare results if you're not going to count coalitions.
and i'm Flemish.

Yes, but you had been disputing the accuracy of the article and it didnt mention coalitions. It were just saying that the VB was the single biggest party in Flanders.

Too costly because of the war situation. Besides, jews were wealthy. If Nazis banned them living in Germany, they'd have had easily left themselves.
Exactly - the war made the deportations horrendously expensive.

Yes, but you had been disputing the accuracy of the article and it didnt mention coalitions. It were just saying that the VB was the single biggest party in Flanders.

ok, but in Antwerpen VB was also in a coalition (VB-vlott)

Yes, but you had been disputing the accuracy of the article and it didnt mention coalitions. It were just saying that the VB was the single biggest party in Flanders.
Nein, CD&V is.

Nein, CD&V is.

Whats their % ?

Whats their % ?
I don't find any totals, it were municipal elections after all, with different coalitions and different parties in every city.

However, I do believe that VB came only first in one province (and barely), cd&v came first in two or three provinces, with a large majority in West-Flanders.

Too costly because of the war situation. Besides, jews were wealthy. If Nazis banned them living in Germany, they'd have had easily left themselves.

What a charming way to quasi-justify the mass murder of Jews. They were wealthy (I guess Jew = wealth, and that's not a bigoted generalization in any way) so it was really their fault. And oh, we can't HELP but execute them, because its too costly to do otherwise.

Let's just all have a big cry for Nazi Germany. Victims. Of Jews.

What a charming way to quasi-justify the mass murder of Jews.
Oh come on, you're being irrational now. It's a well-known fact that the Nazis switched to mass murder due to the costliness of deportations - this does not amount to a justification though.

What a charming way to quasi-justify the mass murder of Jews. They were wealthy (I guess Jew = wealth, and that's not a bigoted generalization in any way) so it was really their fault. And oh, we can't HELP but execute them, because its too costly to do otherwise.

Let's just all have a big cry for Nazi Germany. Victims. Of Jews.

Let me simplify for you, I was arguing for deportations instead of genocide. I was saying if Nazis didnt confiscate the wealth of jews, the jews would have left themselves.

I don't find any totals, it were municipal elections after all, with different coalitions and different parties in every city.

However, I do believe that VB came only first in one province (and barely), cd&v came first in two or three provinces, with a large majority in West-Flanders.

If cd&v won in those provinces with 0.01% leads, they might still be the second party. Since none of you provided credible sources, the article stands correct in saying "VB became the largest electoral force in Flanders" aka biggest party.

What a charming way to quasi-justify the mass murder of Jews. They were wealthy (I guess Jew = wealth, and that's not a bigoted generalization in any way) so it was really their fault. And oh, we can't HELP but execute them, because its too costly to do otherwise.

Let's just all have a big cry for Nazi Germany. Victims. Of Jews.

Well, in all fairness, Jews were mostly middle class, i.e.-better than your average German. Also, 10 of Germany's 35 wealthiest familiies were Jewish.

This goes to show how easy it was for the nazis to propulgate their brainwashing propaganda about the Jews controlling everything, and also the destructive force of envy. Think about it, Germany's most productive group of people were nearly exterminated because they were...productive.

Socialism, anyone?

This goes to show how easy it was for the nazis to propulgate their brainwashing propaganda about the Jews controlling everything, and also the destructive force of envy. Think about it, Germany's most productive group of people were nearly exterminated because they were...productive.

Socialism, anyone?
One thing I should stress - although the Nazis didn't like the Junkers any much more than they did the Jews (the antipathy was mutual - the Junkers saw the Nazis as rabble rousers), they made a distinction between how wealth was gained. The Junker was the noble, pro-German capitalist, whereas the Jew was the evil, multiculturalist parasite. Hence the Nazis targetted the Jews only, and not the Junkers (which would be insane, since they leeched off their wealth).

Oh come on, you're being irrational now. It's a well-known fact that the Nazis switched to mass murder due to the costliness of deportations

A "fact" based on what?

You think that if cost wasn't an issue, the nazis would never have murdered anyone? Ha.

Let me simplify for you, I was arguing for deportations instead of genocide.

I suppose that makes you feel morally superior. Because you don't advocate genocide, you're not as bad.

I was saying if Nazis didnt confiscate the wealth of jews, the jews would have left themselves.

You said Jews were wealthy. Just another generalization in your long history of making them. Jews are wealthy, blacks are strong and stupid, asians are smart, blah blah blah. That you fail to see your own issue isn't a need for more "simplifications" on your part but a realization that you are a total bigot.

A "fact" based on what?

You think that if cost wasn't an issue, the nazis would never have murdered anyone? Ha.



I suppose that makes you feel morally superior. Because you don't advocate genocide, you're not as bad.



You said Jews were wealthy. Just another generalization in your long history of making them. Jews are wealthy, blacks are strong and stupid, asians are smart, blah blah blah. That you fail to see your own issue isn't a need for more "simplifications" on your part but a realization that you are a total bigot.

I didnt say that blacks are strong. Maybe physically, to a degree. And I didnt say asians are smart.

A "fact" based on what?

You think that if cost wasn't an issue, the nazis would never have murdered anyone? Ha.
According to facts presented by historians, their main aim was to deport the so-called "Untermenschen", not to kill the whole lot of them off. They would've murdered, sure, but not in the vast numbers that they did.


You said Jews were wealthy. Just another generalization in your long history of making them. Jews are wealthy, blacks are strong and stupid, asians are smart, blah blah blah. That you fail to see your own issue isn't a need for more "simplifications" on your part but a realization that you are a total bigot.
Based on statistics of the period, Jews were on the whole wealthier than the average German. The fact that they formed communities means that poorer ones might've been aided by richer ones as well.

One thing I should stress - although the Nazis didn't like the Junkers any much more than they did the Jews (the antipathy was mutual - the Junkers saw the Nazis as rabble rousers), they made a distinction between how wealth was gained. The Junker was the noble, pro-German capitalist, whereas the Jew was the evil, multiculturalist parasite. Hence the Nazis targetted the Jews only, and not the Junkers (which would be insane, since they leeched off their wealth).

Oh, I didn't know that. Per usual, you have something intelligent and insightful to add to a debate.

What's a Junker, by the way?

Oh, I didn't know that. Per usual, you have something intelligent and insightful to add to a debate.

What's a Junker, by the way?
A Prussian landowner. The German ruling elite during the Second Reich. Most in the military elite, government, civil service and industry were Junkers. Many of them had blood-links to Teutonic Knights even.

I didnt say that blacks are strong. Maybe physically

In what other context did you think I meant "strong?"

And I didnt say asians are smart.

Of course you did. In your Race and IQ trolling thread, when you were accused of white supremacism for your assertions that whites were more intelligent than blacks, you pointed out how you *also* believed asians were more intelligent than whites. Hence, not a white supremacist.

But I suppose your best tactic now is to hope most people forget your own words so they don't come back so often to bite you.

According to facts presented by historians, their main aim was to deport the so-called "Untermenschen", not to kill the whole lot of them off. They would've murdered, sure, but not in the vast numbers that they did.

Their main *aim* was to get *rid* of them. The only difference between genocide and deportation was in who had the cold-heartedness to go one step further and who still wanted to pretend to be civilized. There was no major policy about which method of getting rid of them was more appropriate - only which was more effective.

Now if you want to paint that as "they only wanted to deport them but were forced by economics to do a Holocaust" you can, but I tell you, painting such a picture doesn't make you look as unbiased and unbigoted as you like to make out.

Now if you want to paint that as "they only wanted to deport them but were forced by economics to do a Holocaust" you can, but I tell you, painting such a picture doesn't make you look as unbiased and unbigoted as you like to make out.
This is however what the consensus of leading historians on the matter aver. Am I meant to ignore their work?

This is however what the consensus of leading historians on the matter aver. Am I meant to ignore their work?

Okay, show me a Consensus Of Leading Historians that say the Holocaust only happened because of economics.

In what other context did you think I meant "strong?"


There are lots of strengths. Like mental strengths.


Of course you did. In your Race and IQ trolling thread, when you were accused of white supremacism for your assertions that whites were more intelligent than blacks, you pointed out how you *also* believed asians were more intelligent than whites. Hence, not a white supremacist.

But I suppose your best tactic now is to hope most people forget your own words so they don't come back so often to bite you.


Aww. You struggling to understand my posts again? What I said was, if I had been arguing for white supremacy, why would I have quoted a study that says Asians are smarter. However I didnt say Asians are smarter. And I still dont think they are because a)4 IQ points are not that big of a deal b)American understanding of white is too large (i.e: Caucasian which includes Iranians for example) c)North Europeans score higher than Asians.



Their main *aim* was to get *rid* of them. The only difference between genocide and deportation was in who had the cold-heartedness to go one step further and who still wanted to pretend to be civilized. There was no major policy about which method of getting rid of them was more appropriate - only which was more effective.

Now if you want to paint that as "they only wanted to deport them but were forced by economics to do a Holocaust" you can, but I tell you, painting such a picture doesn't make you look as unbiased and unbigoted as you like to make out.

Well, I'd rather have non-europeans deported and emerge as a biased bigot etc then let them stay.

Okay, show me a Consensus Of Leading Historians that say the Holocaust only happened because of economics.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Why_did_people_participate_in.2C_authorize.2C_or_tacitly_accept_the_killing.3F in the functionalism vs intentionalism section.

A major issue in contemporary Holocaust studies is the question of functionalism versus intentionalism. The terms were coined in a 1981 article by the British Marxist historian Timothy Mason to describe two schools of thought about the origins of the Holocaust. Intentionalists hold that the Holocaust was the result of a long-term masterplan on the part of Hitler's and that Hitler was the driving force behind the Holocaust. Functionalists hold that Hitler was anti-Semitic, but that he did not have a masterplan for genocide. Functionalists see the Holocaust as coming from below in the ranks of the German bureaucracy with little or no involvement on the part of Hitler. Functionalists stress that the Nazi anti-Semitic policy was constantly evolving in ever more radical directions and the end product was the Holocaust.

Intentionalists like Lucy Dawidowicz argue that the Holocaust was planned by Hitler from the very beginning of his political career, at very least from 1919 on, if not earlier. Later, Dawidowicz was to date the decision for genocide back to November 11, 1918. Other Intentionalists like Andreas Hillgruber, Karl Dietrich Bracher, Gerhard Weinberg and Klaus Hildebrand suggested that Hitler had decided upon the Holocaust sometime in the early 1920s. More recent intentionalist historians like Eberhard Jäckel continue to emphasize the relative earliness of the decision to kill the Jews, although they are not willing to claim that Hitler planned the Holocaust from the beginning. Saul Friedländer has argued that Hitler was an extreme anti-Semite from 1919 on, but he did not decide upon genocide until the middle of 1941. Yet another group of intentionalist historians such as the American Arno J. Mayer claimed Hitler only ordered the Holocaust in December 1941.

Functionalists like Hans Mommsen, Martin Broszat, Götz Aly, Raul Hilberg and Christopher Browning hold that the Holocaust was started in 1941-1942 as a result of the failure of the Nazi deportation policy and the impending military losses in Russia. They claim that what some see as extermination fantasies outlined in Hitler's Mein Kampf and other Nazi literature were mere propaganda and did not constitute concrete plans. In Mein Kampf Hitler repeatedly states his inexorable hatred of the Jewish people, but nowhere does he proclaim his intention to exterminate the Jewish people.

Furthermore, Functionalists point to the fact that in the 1930s, Nazi policy aimed at trying to make life so unpleasant for German Jews that they would leave Germany. Adolf Eichmann was in charge of facilitating Jewish emigration by whatever means possible from 1937 until October 3, 1941, when German Jews were forbidden to leave, Reinhard Heydrich issuing an order to that effect. Functionalists point to the SS's support for a time in the late 1930s for Zionist groups as the preferred solution to the "Jewish Question" as another sign that there was no masterplan for genocide. The SS only ceased their support for German Zionist groups in May 1939 when Joachim von Ribbentrop informed Hitler of this, and Hitler ordered Himmler to cease and desist as the creation of Israel was not a goal Hitler thought worthy of German foreign policy.

In particular, Functionalists have noted that in German documents from 1939 to 1941, the term "Final Solution to the Jewish Question" was clearly meant to be a "territorial solution", that is the entire Jewish population was to be expelled somewhere far from Germany and not allowed to come back. At first, the SS planned to create a gigantic "Jewish Reservation" in the Lublin, Poland area, but the so-called "Lublin Plan" was vetoed by Hans Frank, the Governor-General of occupied Poland who refused to allow the SS to ship any more Jews to the Lublin area after November, 1939. The reason why Frank vetoed the "Lublin Plan" was not due to any humane motives, but rather because he was opposed to the SS "dumping" Jews into the Government-General. In 1940, the SS and the German Foreign Office had the so-called "Madagascar Plan" to deport the entire Jewish population of Europe to a "reservation" on Madagascar. The "Madagascar Plan" was cancelled because Germany could not defeat the United Kingdom and until the British blockade was broken, the "Madagascar Plan" could not be put into effect. Finally, Functionalist historians have made much of a memorandum written by Himmler in May, 1940 explicitly rejecting extermination of the entire Jewish people as "un-German" and going on to recommend to Hitler the "Madagascar Plan" as the preferred "territorial solution" to the "Jewish Question". Not until July 1941 did the term "Final Solution to the Jewish Question" come to mean extermination.

Recently, a synthesis of the two schools has emerged that has been championed by such diverse historians such as the Canadian historian Michael Marrus, the Israeli historian Yehuda Bauer and the British historian Ian Kershaw that contends that Hitler was the driving force behind the Holocaust, but that he did not have a long-term plan and that much of the initiative for the Holocaust came from below in an effort to meet Hitler's perceived wishes.


There, happy now?

There are lots of strengths. Like mental strengths.


So why would I say "strong" when referring to blacks mental strength, but "intelligence" when referring to asians?

No matter. You know what I meant.

Aww. You struggling to understand my posts again?

Self-proclaimed brilliance is what it is! The mewling masses just misunderstand my art!

What I said was, if I had been arguing for white supremacy, why would I have quoted a study that says Asians are smarter.

Because supremacists are willing to concede that other inferiors can be better in some minor respect, but still be overall inferior.

However I didnt say Asians are smarter.

You certainly agreed with the study which you just said "says Asians are smarter."

And I still dont think they are because a)4 IQ points are not that big of a deal b)American understanding of white is too large (i.e: Caucasian which includes Iranians for example) c)North Europeans score higher than Asians.

Yes, Americans just don't have that same concept of White Purity that your superior Nordic White philosophy does. Oh wait, weren't you pretending to be non-racist again? You seem confused.

Well, I'd rather have non-europeans deported and emerge as a biased bigot etc then let them stay.

"emerge as?" No no. You ARE a bigoted racist. I think you almost said, "I'm okay with being a biased bigot etc." But then had to qualify it for Political Correctness.

PCness holds you back. As I said, you shouldn't try to deny your racism, when you're dishonest it dilutes whatever valid points you might ever make.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Why_did_people_participate_in.2C_authorize.2C_or_tacitly_accept_the_killing.3F in the functionalism vs intentionalism section.



There, happy now?

I see, so Functionalists say one thing - and that's supposed to be the Consensus Of Most Historians?

What about the Intentionalists? I guess I'm supposed to pretend they don't exist so that there is in fact a Consensus.

Sorry, not convinced. Might as well say there is only one political party in the US.

I see, so Functionalists say one thing - and that's supposed to be the Consensus Of Most Historians?

What about the Intentionalists? I guess I'm supposed to pretend they don't exist so that there is in fact a Consensus.

Sorry, not convinced. Might as well say there is only one political party in the US.
Read what I posted, carefully. The functionalists offer a lot more evidence for their claims. The synthesis view also seems to suggest the Holocaust was never part of the main scheme. I also said leading historians, not most historians. Don't change my words.

Recently, a synthesis of the two schools has emerged that has been championed by such diverse historians such as the Canadian historian Michael Marrus, the Israeli historian Yehuda Bauer and the British historian Ian Kershaw that contends that Hitler was the driving force behind the Holocaust, but that he did not have a long-term plan and that much of the initiative for the Holocaust came from below in an effort to meet Hitler's perceived wishes.

Ian Kershaw is one of the leading experts on Hitler. The functionalists and synthesists offer much more substantial evidence and arguments than the functionalists. On that basis, I go by what they say.

If cd&v won in those provinces with 0.01% leads, they might still be the second party. Since none of you provided credible sources, the article stands correct in saying "VB became the largest electoral force in Flanders" aka biggest party.

I said "large majority in West-Flanders" didn't I? But fine, you like to see your article smashed...

Antwerp (http://www.vrtnieuws.net/nieuwsnet_master/versie2/v2006/details/nnII_v2006_Antwerpen_provincie/index.shtml)
1. VB 28,5%
2. CD&V/NVA 26,5%

Limburg (http://www.vrtnieuws.net/nieuwsnet_master/versie2/v2006/details/nnII_v2006_Limburg_provincie/index.shtml)
1. CD&V/NVA 32,1%
4. VB 18,1%

East Flanders (http://www.vrtnieuws.net/nieuwsnet_master/versie2/v2006/details/nnII_v2006_OostVlaanderen_provincie/index.shtml)
1. CD&V/NVA 27,4%
3. VB 21%

Flemish Brabant (http://www.vrtnieuws.net/nieuwsnet_master/versie2/v2006/details/nnII_v2006_VlaamsBrabant_provincie/index.shtml)
1. CD&V/NVA 29,4%
3. VB 18,2%

West Flanders (http://www.vrtnieuws.net/nieuwsnet_master/versie2/v2006/details/nnII_v2006_WestVlaanderen_provincie/index.shtml)
1. CD&V/NVA 37,6%
3. VB 17,5%

*snip*
I don't think it smashes the article though, so to speak (although it may render useless poor interpreation thereof). The article said they made gains and became a force within Belgium, not that they are the biggest party.

I don't think it smashes the article though, so to speak (although it may render useless poor interpreation thereof). The article said they made gains and became a force within Belgium, not that they are the biggest party.
I read it again before I searched all those things. From the article:

"Led by Filip Dewinter, a former journalist, the Vlaams Belang has become the biggest electoral force in Flanders."

I read it again before I searched all those things. From the article:

"Led by Filip Dewinter, a former journalist, the Vlaams Belang has become the biggest electoral force in Flanders."
Is the CD&V/NVA a coalition perchance?

I said "large majority in West-Flanders" didn't I? But fine, you like to see your article smashed...

Antwerp (http://www.vrtnieuws.net/nieuwsnet_master/versie2/v2006/details/nnII_v2006_Antwerpen_provincie/index.shtml)
1. VB 28,5%
2. CD&V/NVA 26,5%

Limburg (http://www.vrtnieuws.net/nieuwsnet_master/versie2/v2006/details/nnII_v2006_Limburg_provincie/index.shtml)
1. CD&V/NVA 32,1%
4. VB 18,1%

East Flanders (http://www.vrtnieuws.net/nieuwsnet_master/versie2/v2006/details/nnII_v2006_OostVlaanderen_provincie/index.shtml)
1. CD&V/NVA 27,4%
3. VB 21%

Flemish Brabant (http://www.vrtnieuws.net/nieuwsnet_master/versie2/v2006/details/nnII_v2006_VlaamsBrabant_provincie/index.shtml)
1. CD&V/NVA 29,4%
3. VB 18,2%

West Flanders (http://www.vrtnieuws.net/nieuwsnet_master/versie2/v2006/details/nnII_v2006_WestVlaanderen_provincie/index.shtml)
1. CD&V/NVA 37,6%
3. VB 17,5%


Again, CD&V/NVA is a coalition. Not a single party.

Is the CD&V/NVA a coalition perchance?
What do you mean with "perchance"?