NationStates Jolt Archive


Mexico Border Fence Just Another Republican Boondoggle

Ashmoria
11-10-2006, 01:51
congress may have passed a bill authorizing the building of a 700 mile fence along the us/mexico border but soon afterward they passed another bill that makes it just another republican slush fund.

in an article by spencer S hsu of the washington post last week (bolding mine)

WASHINGTON – No sooner did Congress authorize construction of a 700-mile fence on the U.S.-Mexican border last week than lawmakers rushed to approve separate legislation that ensures it will never be built, at least not as advertised, according to Republican lawmakers and immigration experts.

GOP leaders have singled out the fence as one of the primary accomplishments of the recently completed session. Many lawmakers plan to highlight their $1.2 billion down payment on its construction as they campaign in the weeks before the midterm elections.

But shortly before recessing late Friday, the House and Senate gave the Bush administration leeway to distribute the money to a combination of projects – not just the physical barrier along the southern border. The funds may also be spent on roads, technology and "tactical infrastructure" to support the Homeland Security Department's preferred option of a "virtual fence."

What's more, in a late-night concession to win over wavering Republicans, GOP congressional leaders pledged in writing that Native American tribes, members of Congress, governors and local leaders would get a say in "the exact placement" of any structure, and that Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff would have the flexibility to use alternatives "when fencing is ineffective or impractical."

The loopholes leave the Bush administration with authority to decide where, when and how long a fence will be built, except for small stretches east of San Diego and in western Arizona. Homeland Security officials have proposed a fence half as long, lawmakers said.

"It's one thing to authorize. It's another thing to actually appropriate the money and do it," said Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas. The fine-print distinction between what Congress says it will do and what it actually pays for is a time-honored result of the checks and balances between lawmakers who oversee agencies and those who hold their purse strings.

In this case, it also reflects political calculations by GOP strategists that voters do not mind the details, and that key players – including the administration, local leaders and the Mexican government – oppose a fence-only approach, analysts said.

President Bush signed the $34.8 billion homeland security budget bill Wednesday in Scottsdale, Ariz., without referring to the 700-mile barrier. Instead, he highlighted the $1.2 billion that Congress provided for an unspecified blend of fencing, vehicle barriers, lighting and technology such as ground-based radar, cameras and sensors.

"That's what the people of this country want," the president said. "They want to know that we're modernizing the border so we can better secure the border."

Bush and Chertoff have said repeatedly that enforcement alone will not work and that they want limited dollars spent elsewhere, such as on a temporary-worker program to ease pressure on the border. At an estimated $3 million to $10 million per mile, the double-layered barrier will cost considerably more than $1.2 billion.

Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., who chairs the Senate subcommittee that funds the Department of Homeland Security, said that before the legislation was approved, the department had planned to build 320 miles of fencing, secure 500 miles of hard-to-traverse areas by blocking roads and monitor electronically the rest of the 2,000-mile-long southern frontier.

"I think there'll be fencing where the department feels that it makes sense," Gregg said, estimating that "at least 300 to 400 miles" will be built.

Congress withheld $950 million of the $1.2 billion, pending a breakdown by Chertoff of how he plans to spend the money. It is due in early December, after the midterm elections.

Asked whether Homeland Security would build 700 miles of fence, department spokesman Russ Knocke would not say. Instead, he noted that department leaders announced last month that they will spend $67 million to test a remote-sensing "virtual fence" concept on a 28-mile, high-traffic stretch of border south of Tucson over eight months, and then adjust their plans.

"We plan to build a little and test a little. ... Stay tuned," Knocke said. "We're optimistic that Congress is going to provide the department with flexibility."

The split between GOP leaders hungry for a sound-bite-friendly accomplishment targeting immigration and others who support a more comprehensive approach also means that the fence bill will be watered down when lawmakers return for a lame-duck session in November, according to congressional aides and lobbyists.

The office of Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, Thursday released a letter from House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., promising to ensure that Chertoff has discretion over whether to build a fence or choose other options. Homeland Security officials must also consult with U.S., state and local representatives on where structures are placed.

The letter was inserted in the Congressional Record on Friday night because Congress ran out of time to reach a final deal, aides said.

"State and local officials in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas should not be excluded from decisions about how to best protect our borders with their varying topography, population and geography," Hutchison said in a statement added to the record.

Congress also hedged on when a fence would be completed. The law mandating it said Homeland Security officials should gain "operational control" of the border in 18 months. But the law funding it envisions five years. Chertoff has set a goal of two to three years, but only after completion of an immigration overhaul.


so maybe they'll build a fence, maybe they'll just put up surveillance cameras, maybe someone's brother-in-law will get a new road on his ranch on the mexican border.
Bitchkitten
11-10-2006, 01:54
I'm not sure how the damn fence is supposed to do any good. I know I can whip my out of shape bod over a fence pretty well. You'd need a guard every 20 ft.
Rotovia-
11-10-2006, 01:59
did we really expect any better?
Babelistan
11-10-2006, 02:01
i'm going to sleep now, but i'd like to say fencing (things) is good for nothin'
Pyotr
11-10-2006, 02:01
Can you please define "Boondoggle"
:D

A fence is really ineffective, a 10-foot(3m.) fence on the boarder is just going to create a great market for 11-foot ladders in mexico. An illegal already has to brave the freaking desert wilderness as well as being detained to cross into the states, a fence is the least of their worries.
Dobbsworld
11-10-2006, 02:02
It's so funny... ...but mostly 'cos I don't live there.
Free Soviets
11-10-2006, 02:03
"$1.2 billion down payment"

!

damn, i needs to get in on some of this. i could totally not build a fence for about that price.
Secret aj man
11-10-2006, 02:04
did we really expect any better?

how true.

bridges to nowhere..pork barrel crap at the taxpayers exspence,"factfinding "junkets to hawaii,lifetime insurance,pay raises voted on by themselves...lol

and by the way..aint just repugs...democraps are just as or more guilty.

time to toss them all out on their collective asses....dems and repubs...bunch of fucking corrupt whores.


vote libertarian

and make them really build a fence allready!

as unpopular as it may be here..i believe in soveirn borders,and i am against unchecked/unlimited migration.
if it is so bad in mexico...either fix it or elect uncorrupt government...and dont bitch at the us for wanting to curb "illegal" immigration,when mexico treats illegals from their southern border like shit.
The Nazz
11-10-2006, 02:05
did we really expect any better?

Not really. In fact, not at all.
The Nazz
11-10-2006, 02:07
how true.

bridges to nowhere..pork barrel crap at the taxpayers exspence,"factfinding "junkets to hawaii,lifetime insurance,pay raises voted on by themselves...lol

and by the way..aint just repugs...democraps are just as or more guilty.

time to toss them all out on their collective asses....dems and repubs...bunch of fucking corrupt whores.


vote libertarian

and make them really build a fence allready!

Last I checked, Democrats had no power in Washington. It's your guys who are pulling the bullshit. Now I'm not saying that when Dems are back in power that they won't eventually do the same--power always corrupts, after all--but can we please cut the "democrats are just as bad" crap for the moment? They aren't. Why they aren't is irrelevant.
Swabians
11-10-2006, 02:09
congress may have passed a bill authorizing the building of a 700 mile fence along the us/mexico border but soon afterward they passed another bill that makes it just another republican slush fund.

Thank God. I love how the system sometimes works.
Dobbsworld
11-10-2006, 02:10
Last I checked, Democrats had no power in Washington. It's your guys who are pulling the bullshit. Now I'm not saying that when Dems are back in power that they won't eventually do the same--power always corrupts, after all--but can we please cut the "democrats are just as bad" crap for the moment? They aren't. Why they aren't is irrelevant.

Ahh - expect an earnest, if meandering rebuke for Secret Aj Man is a Libertarian (apparently), and thus is entitled to perch himself atop the highest fencepost there is.
Ashmoria
11-10-2006, 02:15
Thank God. I love how the system sometimes works.

yeah its a good news/bad news kinda thing

they arent REALLY going to build a fence.

they ARE going to waste a few billion dollars.

we have to do something about the border. the loss of life is appalling. we have pushed people out of big city crossings and onto the extremely dangerous desert crossings. i dont like dead people.

a fence seems to be an extremely stupid idea that is designed to have people think that the government has "done something". we need real solutions not just an ugly feel-good plan.
The Nazz
11-10-2006, 02:17
Ahh - expect an earnest, if meandering rebuke for Secret Aj Man is a Libertarian (apparently), and thus is entitled to perch himself atop the highest fencepost there is.
He can claim libertarianism all day long, but he writes like a republican, and I have no reason to believe he is anything but that.
Dobbsworld
11-10-2006, 02:17
i dont like dead people.

It's the smell, isn't it? That - and they attract the flies.
Laerod
11-10-2006, 02:18
Ah, poor minutemen. They might have to fund the thing on their own after all... :D
Dobbsworld
11-10-2006, 02:20
He can claim libertarianism all day long, but he writes like a republican, and I have no reason to believe he is anything but that.

Indeed. However, apart from writing like a Republican, he also drinks like a fish - so who knows? Maybe he'll pass out before he can type more aimless drivel.
Ashmoria
11-10-2006, 02:20
It's the smell, isn't it? That - and they attract the flies.

its the eyes

*shudder*
Secret aj man
11-10-2006, 02:49
He can claim libertarianism all day long, but he writes like a republican, and I have no reason to believe he is anything but that.

ok?

i write like a republican?

i despise bush and the vast majority of his positions...i guess this is me claiming to be a libertarian and as dobbs says,me writing a long winded way of positioning myself on the highest fence post.

i think that you all misread me,and if i am longwinded(i know..ask my ex)it is because i try to explain my feelings on an issue.

i just disagree with the attitude that the right is bad cause it is the right,and equally dissagree with the fact that the left is wrong because it is left.

i prefer to actually be pragmatic,and not march to some party line..i have changed my position on some issues because of nazz and dobbs...because i actually...after my rant...think about your pov's
sometimes i agree,sometimes i dont...but i do listen,and that is more then i can say for the anti---left--right crowd here.

bust my balls...go ahead..it is the internet and everyone can say what they want..but i believe in my approach..if you give me a valid counter argument...i will consider it..not right it off cause it aint part of my party line...seeing as i dont have a party line.

as far as libertarians go..they are the most closely aligned with my views..excluding immigration.

point out one time i was a neocon ever...on freedom of anything..cause i am not..do i get angry with the muslims for not policing their own...yep..just like i would if so called christians went killing innocent people in the name of god...i view all religion with great distrust...yea i'm a conservative..lol

this is me sitting high upon the fence...of what?
The Lone Alliance
11-10-2006, 02:51
Could be worse they could decide to pull the North South Korea border and fill the place full of landmines.

How about this... A moat filled with Liquid hot Magma.
Or sharks with freaking Lazer beams on their heads.

Or a bunch of mimes making invisible walls.

Or a bag full of money on a string, when they chase it it leads to a border control car.
Secret aj man
11-10-2006, 02:54
Indeed. However, apart from writing like a Republican, he also drinks like a fish - so who knows? Maybe he'll pass out before he can type more aimless drivel.

thanks..nice insult.

but you would know about my drinking habits wouldn't you...lol

i guess if i dissagree with you my opinions are drivel?

i will concede i hate typing and have a tough time articulating my thoughts through typing...but i felt i would get my point across...ergo the long posts..to give alot of info.

i have posted drunk from time to time,and also apologised for any lame ass bashing i may have posted...cause i actually give a shit.


you should consider a name change...how about...snobbsworld?
Dobbsworld
11-10-2006, 02:56
thanks..nice insult.

but you would know about my drinking habits wouldn't you...lol

Only as much as you've alluded to (in the past) here on the fora, SAM.
New Domici
11-10-2006, 02:57
Can you please define "Boondoggle"
:D

A fence is really ineffective, a 10-foot(3m.) fence on the boarder is just going to create a great market for 11-foot ladders in mexico. An illegal already has to brave the freaking desert wilderness as well as being detained to cross into the states, a fence is the least of their worries.

Well, if you're a carpenter, or just a general handyman, you could make a mint bidding on the contract to build it. Figure out how afterwards, just get the contract, then hire anyone who'll work for the price. They're probably not even picky about quality, just so long as it looks sufficiently fence-like for the publicity photos.
New Domici
11-10-2006, 02:59
Could be worse they could decide to pull the North South Korea border and fill the place full of landmines.

How about this... A moat filled with Liquid hot Magma.
Or sharks with freaking Lazer beams on their heads.

Or a bunch of mimes making invisible walls.

Or a bag full of money on a string, when they chase it it leads to a border control car.

I suspect that it would be cheaper and more effective to just drop big bags of money in southern Mexico to lure people away from the northern border.
Secret aj man
11-10-2006, 03:06
Only as much as you've alluded to (in the past) here on the fora, SAM.

seriously....what does SAM mean?

i am kinda old..lol

same as me?

not being a wise ass here...never saw that acronym used..like i said..i stink at typing,and as for the drinking..take a walk in my boots someday,i dont stagger thru my day.
Dobbsworld
11-10-2006, 03:08
seriously....what does SAM mean?

i am kinda old..lol

Look at your forum name, Secret aj man. 'Tis an acronym.
New Domici
11-10-2006, 03:10
how true.

bridges to nowhere..pork barrel crap at the taxpayers exspence,"factfinding "junkets to hawaii,lifetime insurance,pay raises voted on by themselves...lol

and by the way..aint just repugs...democraps are just as or more guilty.

time to toss them all out on their collective asses....dems and repubs...bunch of fucking corrupt whores.


vote libertarian

and make them really build a fence allready!

as unpopular as it may be here..i believe in soveirn borders,and i am against unchecked/unlimited migration.
if it is so bad in mexico...either fix it or elect uncorrupt government...and dont bitch at the us for wanting to curb "illegal" immigration,when mexico treats illegals from their southern border like shit.


Thing is, we have a huge hand in Mexican politics. We like their government to be corrupt, and work hard to keep it that way. We like having governments that oppress their poor, make themselves rich and pass the money that would have created a middle class on to US corporate bosses.
Secret aj man
11-10-2006, 03:16
Look at your forum name, Secret aj man. 'Tis an acronym.

thanks...thats prety clever,and funny...thanks.
Secret aj man
11-10-2006, 03:28
Thing is, we have a huge hand in Mexican politics. We like their government to be corrupt, and work hard to keep it that way. We like having governments that oppress their poor, make themselves rich and pass the money that would have created a middle class on to US corporate bosses.

thats a valid and reasonable point...one to be considered.

it does not mitigate the fact that we..the us taxpayer..pays for the crime,medical,welfare for the i guess refugees you can call them.

but your point makes another valid opinion,but is it fair for me to pay 3000.00 for a hospital visit,like i did,so an illegal gets free care?

i suppose the solution is transparent government..lol...but you have to see how unfair it is to the taxpayer.
i would never want to see anyone rejected for medical help...but i cant get it..am taxed...and others bounce in and out of the country...use my tax money for help..when i cant get help..unless i get a 3000 bill.

it is not fair..it certainly aint the illegals fault..i would do the same...but it aint fair to me..thats the issue.

toss out the jerks that have created this problem is the only solution...your right..the rich and corporate folk..are laughing to the bank..and we are pitted against eachother...sad.