NationStates Jolt Archive

There is talk about putting up a fence along the USA and Mexico border. I personally think that it's a good idea. Mexico is saying they don't like that idea and may take it up with the UN.

What in the world can the UN do if the USA decides to build the fence along the border?

There is talk about putting up a fence along the USA and Mexico border. I personally think that it's a good idea. Mexico is saying they don't like that idea and may take it up with the UN.

What in the world can the UN do if the USA decides to build the fence along the border?

I find it funny that Mexico is complaining when they have one on their southern border.

How is it remotely a good idea? It's a waste of money. Any idiot can get past a fence.

http://www.allstarfence.com/picket/standardpicket%20%20.JPG

http://www.allstarfence.com/picket/standardpicket%20%20.JPG

I like that one, very homey and welcoming.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-09-28-mexico-us-border_x.htm

There's an article dealing with this.

Personally, I think it's somewhat ridiculous. The arguments against illegal immigration is always "they cost our economy billions", but never "we save billions by paying them fuck-all to clean our pools". Small-town, backwards-looking paranoia from the white middle-class. As per usual.

new wall?
Where?
i need it

How is it remotely a good idea? It's a waste of money. Any idiot can get past a fence.

That's a bullshit argument. History shows that fences do work. From the Great Wall of China to the security fence in Isreal to the wall Saudi Arabia is building on it's Iraqi border walls have been show to greatly reduce the movement of people across a border. Will people get around it? Sure. Will we still see millions of people crossing the border illegaly? Probably not.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-09-28-mexico-us-border_x.htm

There's an article dealing with this.

Personally, I think it's somewhat ridiculous. The arguments against illegal immigration is always "they cost our economy billions", but never "we save billions by paying them fuck-all to clean our pools". Small-town, backwards-looking paranoia from the white middle-class. As per usual.

Another bullshit argument that completely bypasses the need to address the very real and substantive problem with illegal immigration by just dressing everyone who is concerned with the problem up as racists. The fact is that there are all kinds of problems that are directly rooted in illegal immigration - serious ones.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-09-28-mexico-us-border_x.htm

There's an article dealing with this.

Personally, I think it's somewhat ridiculous. The arguments against illegal immigration is always "they cost our economy billions", but never "we save billions by paying them fuck-all to clean our pools". Small-town, backwards-looking paranoia from the white middle-class. As per usual.

It isn't the "white middle-class" It's more of a majority of the people getting fed up of the illegals coming in our country and living off of our system. Education, Health-care, taking of jobs (because there willing to work for next to nothing) and so on.

It isn't only the white population either. In fact the minute men have many blacks in their organization.

Your post is purely a race motivated comment that makes no sense in this day and age.

That's a bullshit argument. History shows that fences do work. From the Great Wall of China to the security fence in Isreal to the wall Saudi Arabia is building on it's Iraqi border walls have been show to greatly reduce the movement of people across a border. Will people get around it? Sure. Will we still see millions of people crossing the border illegaly? Probably not.
the point beeing "can you do better"?
Can you?

Another bullshit argument that completely bypasses the need to address the very real and substantive problem with illegal immigration by just dressing everyone who is concerned with the problem up as racists. The fact is that there are all kinds of problems that are directly rooted in illegal immigration - serious ones.

What problems?

Think of how many jobs will be filled by people here legally once the illegally underpaid illegal workforce stops growing so rapidly. Getting Mexico to fix itself might be cheaper in the long run, but that's way too hard. We'd have better luck bombing Mexico City and setting up a less corrupt government. I mean, how could it get any more corrupt? I doubt Sadaam's regime was that corrupt...or hypocritical.

It isn't the "white middle-class" It's more of a majority of the people getting fed up of the illegals coming in our country and living off of our system. Education, Health-care, taking of jobs (because there willing to work for next to nothing) and so on.

It isn't only the white population either. In fact the minute men have many blacks in their organization.

Your post is purely a race motivated comment that makes no sense in this day and age.
our ,watever it means

It isn't the "white middle-class" It's more of a majority of the people getting fed up of the illegals coming in our country and living off of our system. Education, Health-care, taking of jobs (because there willing to work for next to nothing) and so on.

It isn't only the white population either. In fact the minute men have many blacks in their organization.

Your post is purely a race motivated comment that makes no sense in this day and age.

Right. They took your jobs. They lurked in underground carparks and jacked you for your IT consultancy position.

OR

Companies were quite happy to exploit them and you did FA in terms of direct action to stop them. And I thought you Americans paid for your medicare? Hardly a shining beacon of a welfare state, are you?

-SNIP-

I like you, you are hysterical.

http://www.allstarfence.com/picket/standardpicket%20%20.JPG

LOL

What problems?

feeding on our Education system which already needs major reform. Feeding off of our Health care and Hospitals. Taking the jobs from Americans because they're willing to work for next to nothing while Americans demand a descent wage. The list goes on and on.

That's a bullshit argument. History shows that fences do work. From the Great Wall of China to the security fence in Isreal to the wall Saudi Arabia is building on it's Iraqi border walls have been show to greatly reduce the movement of people across a border. Will people get around it? Sure. Will we still see millions of people crossing the border illegaly? Probably not.

I dearly hope you're being sarcastic. The great wall of china was a miserable failure at keeping out the Mongolians. Do you recall the Berlin wall? Probably the most patrolled and secure wall built in the last century? Do you remember the hordes of people who got past it anyway?

The idea that illegal immigration is a problem is absurd anyway, the only reason it's illegal is because we decided we were getting too damn many brown people and stopped allowing all but very few Mexican nationals to immigrate here.

What problems?

Los Angeles County has lost ten emergency rooms in the last five years to illegal immigration. 30% of all visits to California emergency rooms are illegal immigrants. They are using thr facilities for primary care - meaning they have the sniffles. Under US law they cannot be turned away and they do not pay.

40% of all inmates in LA County jails are illegal immigrants.

70% of all students in LA county schools are English as a second language students.

Our infrastructure is being overwhelmed. Each year millions are added tro the population. This means we need more roads, more cops, mor jails, more schools, more sewer systems, more teachers, etc... and illegal immigrants do not pay teh taxes necessary to pay for all of this.

Los Angeles County has lost ten emergency rooms in the last five years to illegal immigration. 30% of all visits to California emergency rooms are illegal immigrants. They are using thr facilities for primary care - meaning they have the sniffles. Under US law they cannot be turned away and they do not pay.

40% of all inmates in LA County jails are illegal immigrants.

70% of all students in LA county schools are English as a second language students.

Our infrastructure is being overwhelmed. Each year millions are added tro the population. This means we need more roads, more cops, mor jails, more schools, more sewer systems, more teachers, etc... and illegal immigrants do not pay teh taxes necessary to pay for all of this.

So you're saying people who don't make enough money to pay their own way, don't even make enough money for taxes to help pay for them? Sounds to me like you need to bitch at the employers.

I think that America was founded on the belif that it would be a beacon of liberty and a place where immegrants from all over can have a life without fear of oppression. I think building a fence along the US, Mexico border would be very stupid because: A. We don't have the personal to maintain the fence, B. It would cost a lot of money that the US needs for other stuff (like Education), and C. It's not going to stop the flow of of people there.

It isn't the "white middle-class" It's more of a majority of the people getting fed up of the illegals coming in our country and living off of our system. Education, Health-care, taking of jobs (because there willing to work for next to nothing) and so on.

It isn't only the white population either. In fact the minute men have many blacks in their organization.

Your post is purely a race motivated comment that makes no sense in this day and age.
If they were willing to work for the same price how are they middle class? Seems to me that those “middle class” people that are bitching are not really the ones that have their job threatened

Los Angeles County has lost ten emergency rooms in the last five years to illegal immigration. 30% of all visits to California emergency rooms are illegal immigrants. They are using thr facilities for primary care - meaning they have the sniffles. Under US law they cannot be turned away and they do not pay.

40% of all inmates in LA County jails are illegal immigrants.

70% of all students in LA county schools are English as a second language students.


Source?

Stupid illegal emigrant ready for war?
are the tax payer,under no seen law?,is democracy doomed?
like Murfy's law?

I dearly hope you're being sarcastic. The great wall of china was a miserable failure at keeping out the Mongolians.For centuries it kept them out. Do you recall the Berlin wall? Probably the most patrolled and secure wall built in the last century? Do you remember the hordes of people who got past it anyway?No.

The idea that illegal immigration is a problem is absurd anyway, the only reason it's illegal is because we decided we were getting too damn many brown people and stopped allowing all but very few Mexican nationals to immigrate here.

Tell that to all the people who now have to go farther and farther away to get to an emergency room and that, once they get there, have to wait hours and hours longer than they would have just one decade ago. Tell that to all the people who are crime victims because our jails are full of illegal immigrants and we have to let people go because teh law says we can only hold so many people. Tell that top the taxpayers who lose nearly a quarter billion dolars a year to pay for wellfare for people who aren't even here legally.

Source?

Snopes:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/taxes.asp

Think of how many jobs will be filled by people here legally once the illegally underpaid illegal workforce stops growing so rapidly.

Yeah: None.

Nobody is going to pick cabbage for $2 an hour with no benefits. And the emplyers are certainly not going to pay a competitive wage. All that will happen is illegal immigrants will be forced into more dangerous routes and/or be further in debt to immigrant smugglers who will charge even more to sneak them over the border.

ANd of course, desperate workers are quiet workers. Just the kind that these employers want.

Yeah: None.

Nobody is going to pick cabbage for $2 an hour with no benefits. And the emplyers are certainly not going to pay a competitive wage. All that will happen is illegal immigrants will be forced into more dangerous routes and/or be further in debt to immigrant smugglers who will charge even more to sneak them over the border.

ANd of course, desperate workers are quiet workers. Just the kind that these employers want.

So, would you be in favor of prosecuting employers who hire illegals?

Source?

More on Illegal immigration and health care.

Illegal immigration is the number one reason our healthcare system is on life support. Hospitals and emergency rooms across the United States are closing, but they are shutting in the areas with the highest rate of illegal immigration. For example, Los Angeles has a huge illegal immigration population and one-third of the patients treated in Los Angeles’ county health system are illegal immigrants.
That’s why, in the past year alone, six emergency rooms have been forced to close in Los Angeles. In the past decade, California lost 65 emergency rooms to the overwhelming burden of caring for illegal immigrants.

Illegal immigrants generally work low-wage jobs without benefits. Because illegal immigrants don't carry health insurance, they use emergency rooms for primary care—the most expensive health care available.

In fact, if we removed illegal immigrants from the equation, the number of “uninsured Americans” the media keeps touting would plummet, because 76 percent of naturalized citizens and 81 percent of native-born Americans have employment-based health insurance.

In Fiscal Year 2001, the total cost for emergency medical care for illegal immigrants in California was more than $648 million. At the same time, the California Association of Public Hospitals notes that California’s public hospitals face a $600 million a year budget deficit. It doesn’t take a mathematician to see how eliminating illegal immigration would turn a deficit into a surplus.

But this is not just a California problem. In the last decade, as illegal immigration has skyrocketed, so have visits to emergency rooms—up 20 percent. Pennsylvania and New Jersey hospitals provided nearly $2 billion in free emergency and short-term care to uninsured patients in 2002, a large share of whom were illegal immigrants. In South Carolina, hospitals have been left with at least $4 million in unpaid maternity bills from illegal immigrants.

Illegal immigration threatens America's health in other ways, as well. Tuberculosis was virtually wiped out in the United States by 1983. It is on the rise again because of unfettered illegal immigration. One individual in central California, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, was responsible for infecting at least 56 other people before he was incarcerated for forced treatment earlier this year.

In 1996, the John Hopkins Center for Tuberculosis Research estimated it cost $13,000 to treat each case of TB. That means it cost U.S. taxpayers $741,000 in 1996 dollars to stem the epidemic caused by a single illegal immigrant.

But, as frightening as that is, it’s only the tip of the iceberg. About 53 percent of the people diagnosed in the United States each year with TB are born outside the U.S. In the Los Angeles area, 80 percent of people infected with TB are foreign-born, with Mexico leading the way, followed by the Philippines, Vietnam, India and China.

I believe illegal immigrants should be treated for life-threatening illnesses and accidents. But once they are stabilized, they should be deported to their native lands. It is not compassionate to destroy our health care system.
http://www.house.gov/gallegly/press2005/col02-0305immigration.htm

OUR HEALTH CARE DELIVERY SYSTEM HAS BECOME THE HMO FOR THE WORLD. WITHIN OUR HEALTH CARE DELIVERY SYSTEM, APPROXIMATELY 30 PERCENT ARE ILLEGALS WHO ARE BEING TREATED ANNUALLY AT A COST OF ROUGHLY $360

Page 4
4MILLION DOLLARS.THIS INCLUDES INPATIENT AND OUTPATIENT SERVICES AS WELL AS MENTAL HEALTHCARE.OUR COUNTY’S DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH SERVICES ESTIMATES THAT NEARLY 26% OF THE AMBULATORY CARE VISITS WERE MADE BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

That's from a Board of Supervisors County of Los Angeles report.

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:L8XoKUxOzdcJ:judiciary.house.gov/media/pdfs/antonovich080206.pdf+%2B%22illegal+immigration%22+%2Bhospitals+%2B%22Los+Angeles%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4

For centuries it kept them out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wall_of_China

Apparently the real focus on wall building started as a result of Altan Khan's siege of Beijing which took place one hundred years later in 1550. The Ming, faced with the choice of trying to defeat the Mongols with direct military force, chose instead to build a massive defensive barrier to protect China. As a result, most of the Ming Great Wall was built in the period 1560 to 1640. This new wall was built on a grand scale with longer lasting materials (solid stone used for the sides and the top of the Wall) than any wall built before.

The Ming Dynasty Great Wall starts on the eastern end at Shanhai Pass, near Qinhuangdao, in Hebei Province, next to Bohai Gulf. Spanning nine provinces and 100 counties, the final 500 km (~300 mi) have all but turned to rubble, and today it ends on the western end at the historic site of Jiayuguan Pass (also called Jiayu Pass) (嘉峪关), located in northwest Gansu Province at the limit of the Gobi Desert and the oases of the Silk Road. Jiayuguan Pass was intended to greet travelers along the Silk Road. Even though The Great Wall ends at Jiayu Pass, there are many watchtowers (烽火台 fēng huǒ tái) extending beyond Jiayu Pass along the Silk Road. These towers communicated by smoke to signal invasion.

In 1644, the Kokes Manchus crossed the Wall by convincing an important general Wu Sangui to open the gates of Shanhai Pass and allow the Manchus to cross. Legend has it that it took three days for the Manchu armies to pass. After the Manchu conquered China, the Wall was of no strategic value, mainly because the Manchu extended their political control far to the north. See more on the Manchu Dynasty.


Yes it defended them for hundreds of years, or rather four years until they were invaded, and overrun.

I'm glad I actually read my homework for once. A thought:

"In the late 1980s and early 1990s, the US Immigration and Naturalization Service added extra guards and imposed punishments on employers found to be employing illegal immigrants, with one thousand extra Border Patrol officers added each year through 2001. [Douglas S.] Massey and [Kristin E.] Epinosa found that since the border crossing has been made tougher, illegal immigrants who originally would have come to the United States and stayed only for a few months of seasonal labor now stay year-round because they know that it will be hard to get back if they go home. The end result is that the number of illegal immigrants present at any given time is increased, not decreased, by the stepped-up enforcement."

From Power and Choice: An Introduction to Political Science by W. Phillips Shively, p. 136-137.

absolutely nothing
first of all, most UN members have some form of unnatural border for example,
germany; a wall/fence with barbed wire
UK, a wall between Northern Ireland and Ireland.

What international law would the fence be breaking?

Yeah: None.

Nobody is going to pick cabbage for $2 an hour with no benefits. And the emplyers are certainly not going to pay a competitive wage. All that will happen is illegal immigrants will be forced into more dangerous routes and/or be further in debt to immigrant smugglers who will charge even more to sneak them over the border.

ANd of course, desperate workers are quiet workers. Just the kind that these employers want.

So, are you basicly saying that we should ignore this major problem of illegals?
That we should continue to allow them to feed off of our country? Remember, the more they take from our country the less our country can provide for our people which all and all will lead to Total Collapse. Is this what you want?

It's bad enough that we're supporting Puerto Rico and allowing them to reap all the benefits and at the same time they refuse to pay any taxes to the USA. So how is that right.

It's about damn time America start to take a stance on these illegals. The majority don't want them here. We have every right to be pissed about it. Our government has ignored this major problem and concern for many years. I'm glad that finally something is beginning to be done about it.

I think that America was founded on the belif that it would be a beacon of liberty and a place where immegrants from all over can have a life without fear of oppression. I think building a fence along the US, Mexico border would be very stupid because: A. We don't have the personal to maintain the fence, B. It would cost a lot of money that the US needs for other stuff (like Education), and C. It's not going to stop the flow of of people there.

wow, your spelling is worse than mine

So, are you basicly saying that we should ignore this major problem of illegals?
That we should continue to allow them to feed off of our country? Remember, the more they take from our country the less our country can provide for our people which all and all will lead to Total Collapse. Is this what you want?

It's bad enough that we're supporting Puerto Rico and allowing them to reap all the benefits and at the same time they refuse to pay any taxes to the USA. So how is that right.

It's about damn time America start to take a stance on these illegals. The majority don't want them here. We have every right to be pissed about it. Our government has ignored this major problem and concern for many years. I'm glad that finally something is beginning to be done about it.

I believe he's saying that as long as employers get by with paying shit wages to illegals there are going to be illegals that come here.

So, would you be in favor of prosecuting employers who hire illegals?

It's the only way to stop illegal immigration. You have to make it unprofitable to employ illegals. if there are no jobs to be had, nobody will come here. Well, except drug and arms smugglers. :p

It's the only way to stop illegal immigration. You have to make it unprofitable to employ illegals. if there are no jobs to be had, nobody will come here. Well, except drug and arms smugglers. :p

Our economy would implode, in record time.

It's the only way to stop illegal immigration. You have to make it unprofitable to employ illegals. if there are no jobs to be had, nobody will come here. Well, except drug and arms smugglers. :p

In the end a much better way to stop illegal immagration then a fence

Our economy is based off of, at the ground level, people working for shit money doing jobs nobody with a decent education would even think of doing. This is where the illegals 'steal' the jobs. They don't work in office buildings. Outsourced workers, however, DO work in office buildings (across the world), and the companies GIVE them your jobs, the people don't STEAL them.

So, are you basicly saying that we should ignore this major problem of illegals?
That we should continue to allow them to feed off of our country? Remember, the more they take from our country the less our country can provide for our people which all and all will lead to Total Collapse. Is this what you want?

It's bad enough that we're supporting Puerto Rico and allowing them to reap all the benefits and at the same time they refuse to pay any taxes to the USA. So how is that right.

It's about damn time America start to take a stance on these illegals. The majority don't want them here. We have every right to be pissed about it. Our government has ignored this major problem and concern for many years. I'm glad that finally something is beginning to be done about it.

Absolutely not: I just think we should go after the REAL crimnals: The employers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wall_of_China




Yes it defended them for hundreds of years, or rather four years until they were invaded, and overrun.

Well, it's been awhile since I read about the Wall, but the fact is it protected them for a lot longer than four years unless you think they built just a few feet between 1550 and 1640 and then all of the rest in a few years. It also took a corrupt general to let them across. They didn't hop it. All that aside, who cares? This has nothing to do with the very real debate about the costs of illegal immigration.

Isn't it obvious? The Illegal immigrants will develop a new way to cross the border: Trebuchet.

Our economy would implode, in record time.

Shh.... You know that, and I know that, but the angry pale people don't know that. ;)

Our economy would implode, in record time.

Bullshit.

Yeah. A fucking fence. Thats what we need to spend money on. Fencing. We're fucking retarded. It makes me think of the United States as some sort of public swimming pool.

Isn't it obvious? The Illegal immigrants will develop a new way to cross the border: Trebuchet.
so?

What happens when all the business's hiring illegals are shut down? The smuggles are still going to keep packing them. What are the illegals going to do when they can't get work? They'll probably have to resort to crime.

Absolutely not: I just think we should go after the REAL crimnals: The employers.

I say both are the REAL criminals, illegal aliens and the employers.

so?

Ah, I see this bit of humor is lost on you...

Ah, I see this bit of humor is lost on you...

Cow!





Cow!


Cow!




COW!!!

Ah, I see this bit of humor is lost on you...

Where?

What happens when all the business's hiring illegals are shut down? The smuggles are still going to keep packing them. What are the illegals going to do when they can't get work? They'll probably have to resort to crime.

The only die-hard way to keep them from coming here is if we make it so they don't WANT to come here. Make Mexico not suck dick on a daily basis and maybe the population won't go osmosis on America.

Where?

There!


Duck!


Cow.

I say both are the REAL criminals, illegal aliens and the employers.

Yes, but one set of criminals makes millions of dollars off the labor of desperate people trying to find a better life. The other set of criminals are people trying to find a better life. I know which set I'd rather go after.

More importantly, going after the employers will actually work.

Where?

I think the language barrier is getting in the way...

It means I don't think you got the joke.

Where?

You don't find it funny that people would immigrate via CATAPULT? That's funny shit.

Mythbusters already proved that was impossible, btw.

The only die-hard way to keep them from coming here is if we make it so they don't WANT to come here. Make Mexico not suck dick on a daily basis and maybe the population won't go osmosis on America.

Or maybe we should make America suck more dick than Mexico. We always say we can do everything better than them, anyway.

Cow!





Cow!


Cow!




COW!!!

MoooooOOOOOOOOoooooooo!


You got me thinking of Monty Python...yay!

Bullshit.

Bullshit? Now you're just being dumb. You mean all the millions of illegals in this country, who work from fields to food processing plants to any kind of manual labor you can imagine could simply vanish and we'd roll along like nothing happened?


You cannot seriously be that dense. Our economy is reliant upon cheap labor, without it our economy will not function.

The only die-hard way to keep them from coming here is if we make it so they don't WANT to come here. Make Mexico not suck dick on a daily basis and maybe the population won't go osmosis on America.

The smugglers will still spread stories about how great the America dream is and how they're a guaranteed a good job etc Some of them can see the myth themselves on American satallite tv.

Well, it's been awhile since I read about the Wall, but the fact is it protected them for a lot longer than four years unless you think they built just a few feet between 1550 and 1640 and then all of the rest in a few years. It also took a corrupt general to let them across. They didn't hop it. All that aside, who cares? This has nothing to do with the very real debate about the costs of illegal immigration.

A wall in peices protects nothing. Unless you advocate putting a barrier the entire length of the boarder, and a mine field to make sure the people who get past the chain link fence don't make it any further it won't do anything.

To say that our economy only survives because of the illegal aliens is absurd.

That is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard on NSG.

BREAKING NEWS FLASH: Illegal Aliens keeping America alive. Sure way of America to fall is to eliminate the illegals. America cannot survive without the work of illegal aliens.

The smugglers will still spread stories about how great the America dream is and how they're a guaranteed a good job etc Some of them can see the myth themselves on American satallite tv.

Then what we need to do is build a WALL. A GIANT WALL. WITH A PORTAL IN THE MIDDLE THAT TELEPORTS ALL THOSE WHO PASS THROUGH STRAIGHT INTO CANADA!

Yes, but one set of criminals makes millions of dollars off the labor of desperate people trying to find a better life. The other set of criminals are people trying to find a better life. I know which set I'd rather go after.

More importantly, going after the employers will actually work.

I agree. I think we should seriously go after employers who hire illegal immigrants with the kinds of fines that threaten their ability to stay in business. If they violate labor laws, say not offering benefits or paying less than minimum wage or not paying overtime, etc.. They should face the same punishment if they did that to an American citizen. We could use all that extra money from all the fines to beef up border security.

You don't find it funny that people would immigrate via CATAPULT? That's funny shit.

Mythbusters already proved that was impossible, btw.
only in games,now your granma is fucked, wile you vote for it

now guess?,.

To say that our economy only survives because of the illegal aliens is absurd.

That is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard on NSG.

BREAKING NEWS FLASH: Illegal Aliens keeping America alive. Sure way of America to fall is to eliminate the illegals. America cannot survive without the work of illegal aliens.

Yeah, it is. With higher wages for American workers instead of using illegals, companies can't profit like they used to. Many go out of business or export the working force to other countries, like, I dunno, suppose maybe, MEXICO.

only in games,now your granma is fucked, wile you vote for it

now guess?,.

Wow. I'm shocked, and in awe. You should've given a speech in Iraq.

only in games,now your granma is fucked, wile you vote for it

now guess?,.

I've never, ever been more pleased after reading a reply on NS. My God. Thank you.

A wall in peices protects nothing. Unless you advocate putting a barrier the entire length of the boarder, and a mine field to make sure the people who get past the chain link fence don't make it any further it won't do anything.

the wall they're talking about is not some chainlink fence. It's a double wall of concrete with an open area in between like the Berlin Wall.

Bullshit? Now you're just being dumb. You mean all the millions of illegals in this country, who work from fields to food processing plants to any kind of manual labor you can imagine could simply vanish and we'd roll along like nothing happened?


You cannot seriously be that dense. Our economy is reliant upon cheap labor, without it our economy will not function.

We have a perfectly good supply of cheap labor. It's called high school students. Or cut off the welfare of some of the moochers. Or invite LEGAL immigrants in. Of course, employers might not be able to mistreat them as badly as they do the illegals, and I suppose THAT would kill the economy.

I've never, ever been more pleased after reading a reply on NS. My God. Thank you.
zucht

the wall they're talking about is not some chainlink fence. It's a double wall of concrete with an open area in between like the Berlin Wall.

So have you missed the multiple tunnels dug into california and new mexico?

http://www.fitz-claridge.com/Trebuchet/index.html

This one tossed a dead cow 3/4 of a mile...I think that might actually work...

zucht

Did you call me a stud in German? Internet translators are horrible.

I've never, ever been more pleased after reading a reply on NS. My God. Thank you.

It has a home in my sig. =)

Bullshit? Now you're just being dumb. You mean all the millions of illegals in this country, who work from fields to food processing plants to any kind of manual labor you can imagine could simply vanish and we'd roll along like nothing happened?


You cannot seriously be that dense. Our economy is reliant upon cheap labor, without it our economy will not function.

Of course they can't simply vanish, but as we seriously bite into the flow of illegal labor across the borders American citizens and legal immigrants will take the jobs illegals are doing now. It wasn't more than a decade ago that roofers, pipefitters, framers, drywallers were mostly American citizens. You can't tell me that in just ten years all these people just decided they don't want to do those jobs anymore.

Wow. I'm shocked, and in awe. You should've given a speech in Iraq.
i live in the nederlands.
i'm french
and realy not proud.

So have you missed the multiple tunnels dug into california and new mexico?

yeah, we have to do something about those, too. We don't just need a fence, we need more border patrol officers. Those tunnels, BTW, are usually used for purposes far worse than smuggling workers across the border.

http://www.fitz-claridge.com/Trebuchet/index.html

This one tossed a dead cow 3/4 of a mile...I think that might actually work...

Landing would be a wee rough.

i live in the nederlands.
i'm french
and realy not proud.

No, dude, it's perfectly alright - I love you. ^^ Lol

Of course they can't simply vanish, but as we seriously bite into the flow of illegal labor across the borders American citizens and legal immigrants will take the jobs illegals are doing now. It wasn't more than a decade ago that roofers, pipefitters, framers, drywallers were mostly American citizens. You can't tell me that in just ten years all these people just decided they don't want to do those jobs anymore.

Maybe they all decided to become IT professionals. Of course, now those jobs are being shipped overseas. Excuse me, I mean, offshore.

Shh.... You know that, and I know that, but the angry pale people don't know that. ;)

I wonder, if you dont think the economy can survive wage increases in the industries that hire illegals.. what is your position on minimum wages ? Can the Country survive a minimum wage increase ? Because in many cases these industries overlap.

Landing would be a wee rough.

Wrap yourself up in rubber bands is what I'd say :D

It has a home in my sig. =)
Excellent.

No, dude, it's perfectly alright - I love you. ^^ Lol
i'm please you are not

I wonder, if you dont think the economy can survive wage increases in the industries that hire illegals.. what is your position on minimum wages ? Can the Country survive a minimum wage increase ? Because in many cases these industries overlap.

Difference being there aren't many high school kids standing outside at 6AM waiting for a truck to drive by.

i'm please you are not

I'm serious! I forgive all your grammatical follies in lieu of you giving us the most win-filled post of the day.

I'm serious! I forgive all your grammatical follies in lieu of you giving us the most win-filled post of the day.

It's filled with so much win that we don't know what to do with it.

I'm serious! I forgive all your grammatical follies in lieu of you giving us the most win-filled post of the day.
good

I wonder, if you dont think the economy can survive wage increases in the industries that hire illegals.. what is your position on minimum wages ? Can the Country survive a minimum wage increase ? Because in many cases these industries overlap.

According to the party in power in the US, the economy cannot survive an increase in the minimum wage. It would drive "small businesses" out of business and increase prices across the board as the surviving businesses raised their charges to compensate for the higher wages. Oh, and people should not have to pay tax on inherited wealth, either, so there.

I'm serious! I forgive all your grammatical follies in lieu of you giving us the most win-filled post of the day.

Seriously, as far as I'm concerned: this debate is over with the Dutch being the clear winners.

It's filled with so much win that we don't know what to do with it.
guess

guess

PIE!!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD YOU'RE BRINGING US PIE!!!!!!!!!!!

There are two things that really annoy me about the Immigration Issue in America.

First one is that America is a Nation of Immigrants fleeing poverty from their home lands. And, a couple generations down the line, many Americans (who are now rich) are saying that the Mexicans don't deserve to live in the USA.

Secondly, perhaps if things in Mexico weren't so dire, there wouldn't be a need to flee to the USA. You might say that the it isn't the USA's responsiblity to fix Mexico's problems, but it IS if they want to stop the flow of immigrants and have the right to call themselves "The World's Policemen".

Hope you agree. :)

PIE!!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD YOU'RE BRINGING US PIE!!!!!!!!!!!
explain.
i like cherries,but not that much.
explain.

explain.
i like cherries,but not that much.
explain.

I swear I love you.

explain.
i like cherries,but not that much.
explain.

Pumpkin pie beats all.

Secondly, perhaps if things in Mexico weren't so dire, there wouldn't be a need to flee to the USA. You might say that the it isn't the USA's responsiblity to fix Mexico's problems, but it IS if they want to stop the flow of immigrants and have the right to call themselves "The World's Policemen".



How would you suggest that we fix Mexico's problems? Should we invade them and force "regime change"?

explain.
i like cherries,but not that much.
explain.

There is no explaining...there is just delightful pumpkin pie!

There are two things that really annoy me about the Immigration Issue in America.

First one is that America is a Nation of Immigrants fleeing poverty from their home lands. And, a couple generations down the line, many Americans (who are now rich) are saying that the Mexicans don't deserve to live in the USA.

Secondly, perhaps if things in Mexico weren't so dire, there wouldn't be a need to flee to the USA. You might say that the it isn't the USA's responsiblity to fix Mexico's problems, but it IS if they want to stop the flow of immigrants and have the right to call themselves "The World's Policemen".

Hope you agree. :)

Yeah, there's something to that. A bit of an attitude of "I've got mine, the rest of you bugger off."

And as Mexican President Porfirio Diaz is said to have said, ""¡Pobre Mexico! ¡Tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca los Estados Unidos!!" (Poor Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States)."

Pumpkin pie beats all.

Fear the pecan pie. So very sweet it makes your teeth ache to think about it.

I swear I love you.
good.
so wat?
Fence may be build?

According to the party in power in the US, the economy cannot survive an increase in the minimum wage. It would drive "small businesses" out of business and increase prices across the board as the surviving businesses raised their charges to compensate for the higher wages. Oh, and people should not have to pay tax on inherited wealth, either, so there.


SHouldn't it stand to reason then that those advocating NOT persuing US employers that break the law should also stand against minimum wage increases ? Since they result in the same negative impact on small buisnesses ?

Fear the pecan pie. So very sweet it makes your teeth ache to think about it.

My grandma makes the best damn Pecan pie in the world...

...yay for Polish people from Texas!

Landing would be a wee rough.

Take a tip from the flying squirrel. :)

http://www.k12.nf.ca/stannesacademy/AnimalAdaptations/Flysqu.jpg

good.
so wat?
Fence may be build?

http://www.wood-guard.com/images/project/4-picket-lg.jpg

Just like that...all along the border :D

There is no explaining...there is just delightful pumpkin pie!
haloween?

haloween?

Not for three weeks, but Kroger has rather good Pumpkin Pie...

http://www.wood-guard.com/images/project/4-picket-lg.jpg

Just like that...all along the border :D
ah well those ones are white
;)

Take a tip from the flying squirrel. :)

http://www.k12.nf.ca/stannesacademy/AnimalAdaptations/Flysqu.jpg

So damn cute.



But who am I talking about, LG or the squirrel? Mystery. ^^

Not for three weeks, but Kroger has rather good Pumpkin Pie...
krueger is an actor.
YO.

SHouldn't it stand to reason then that those advocating NOT persuing US employers that break the law should also stand against minimum wage increases ? Since they result in the same negative impact on small buisnesses ?

You could say that. Why have a minimum wage at all? Why not let the labor market find its own level. That worked throughout the 19th and part of the 20th century, didn't it?

heres what you do:

Annex Mexico. make it part of the United States. Then, convince all of the illegal mexicans to go back to their hometowns in our brand new state. as soon as they are all back in mexico, nuke it. Mexico will become the new white sands missle range. the only way to get into America now is through a nuclear wasteland!

oh jeah,the US are building a wall

You could say that. Why have a minimum wage at all? Why not let the labor market find its own level. That worked throughout the 19th and part of the 20th century, didn't it?

No, it really didn't. :p

God, imagine the huge gap between rich and poor that would create, not having a minimum wage... yes, larger than the one we have now.

No, it really didn't. :p

God, imagine the huge gap between rich and poor that would create, not having a minimum wage... yes, larger than the one we have now.

But...as it stands a very, very small number of the population is paid the minimum, something akin to 1.5-2 million people, most of whom are under 18...if I recall correctly.

But...as it stands a very, very small number of the population is paid the minimum, something akin to 1.5-2 million people, most of whom are under 18...if I recall correctly.

I was paid minimum after I got out of high school. Now I'm at 14$/hr a year later. Woo. Still have to live with someone else working fulltime for about the same amount to make rent and bills and such.

But...as it stands a very, very small number of the population is paid the minimum, something akin to 1.5-2 million people, most of whom are under 18...if I recall correctly.
in the us?

I was paid minimum after I got out of high school. Now I'm at 14$/hr a year later. Woo. Still have to live with someone else working fulltime for about the same amount to make rent and bills and such.

I know the pain, as a university student, I get double hit on the costs, because I cannot work fulltime AND I have to pay tuition.

I'm glad I'm on good terms with my parents.

in the us?

Yes.

I believe I read about it in the New York Times this summer during the minimum wage debate.

So you're saying people who don't make enough money to pay their own way, don't even make enough money for taxes to help pay for them? Sounds to me like you need to bitch at the employers.
Isn't that cute, thinking that big business cares...

Ha Ha hahahahahaha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... Hold on I'll HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA I'm done now.

What planet are you from? The Employers don't listen to anyone. The only thing they hear are the sound of Greenbacks going in the bank.

Nothing can stop them.

I know the pain, as a university student, I get double hit on the costs, because I cannot work fulltime AND I have to pay tuition.

I'm glad I'm on good terms with my parents.

Yar. There've been times when my or my fiancee's parents had to bail us out via a couple hundred bucks at the end of the month.

a fence treats a symptom of a bigger issue.
We need immigration reform. Rather than blocking people who want to come to this country, we need to streamline the process of becoming a legal citizen/green card holder/visas. The current process is rediculous

No, it really didn't. :p

God, imagine the huge gap between rich and poor that would create, not having a minimum wage... yes, larger than the one we have now.

[/sarcasm] ... Sorry, left that off. Yeah, can you imagine what the US would be like?

Yes.

I believe I read about it in the New York Times this summer during the minimum wage debate.
you also know a lot of people have nothing?
do you think capitalist's poor a less poor than first /2nd /3rd 's world poor?

[/sarcasm] ... Sorry, left that off. Yeah, can you imagine what the US would be like?

It'd be shit. I would've never gotten out of my parents' house.

you also know a lot of people have nothing?
do you think capitalist's poor a less poor than first /2nd /3rd 's world poor?

Probably not, but we're not a 2nd/3rd world country - there's no excuse for that.

Les Bid a Wall! We gon bid us a wall!

Git them tonks out our country, yeeeehhhawwwww

a fence treats a symptom of a bigger issue.
We need immigration reform. Rather than blocking people who want to come to this country, we need to streamline the process of becoming a legal citizen/green card holder/visas. The current process is rediculous
so you agree,with "they are taking our land policy"

so you agree,with "they are taking our land policy"
to be completely honest, I don't particularly care about immigration. It is the benefit of living in Connecticut and Boston. I'm against a fence because as much as it keeps people out, it keeps people in. It breeds xenophobia. I am for letting people in legally, but that process is overly complicated. If you have a process that is outrageously difficult to complete, you can't be shocked that people don't.

Probably not, but we're not a 2nd/3rd world country - there's no excuse for that.
no excuse.
A poor is a poor.
the rest is up to you

to be completely honest, I don't particularly care about immigration. It is the benefit of living in Connecticut and Boston. I'm against a fence because as much as it keeps people out, it keeps people in. It breeds xenophobia. I am for letting people in legally, but that process is overly complicated. If you have a process that is outrageously difficult to complete, you can't be shocked that people don't.
you know i'm in the nederlands,and they are really tie about immigration,i was born in france and there man"i will write a book",i lived i spain ,man they all fuck
...
The way it looks .
we are fuck if we don't.such is man
:fluffle: lol

you also know a lot of people have nothing?
do you think capitalist's poor a less poor than first /2nd /3rd 's world poor?

The poorest people in 1st world countries are significantly better off than the poorest people in the 3rd world.

you know i'm in the nederlands,and they are really tie about immigration,i was born in france and there man"i will write a book",i lived i spain ,man they all fuck




I see...

The poorest people in 1st world countries are significantly better off than the poorest people in the 3rd world.

explain

I see...no
you don't

you know i'm in the nederlands,and they are really tie about immigration,i was born in france and there man"i will write a book",i lived i spain ,man they all fuck
...
The way it looks .
we are fuck if we don't.such is man
:fluffle: lol

And there you have it, folks! ;)

And there you have it, folks! ;)
what do you have?

what do you have?

Pie.

*Tars all mexicans with same brush*

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=2006-10-10T173221Z_01_N10360046_RTRUKOC_0_US-LIFE-MEXICO.xml&WTmodLoc=Home-C5-oddlyEnoughNews-2

If they get this pissed off over somebody filling a pothole imagine what they will do if somebody tries to put a bloody wall in their way.;)

700 mile long fence along 2000 mile long border what?

Stupid White Men.

Probably not, but we're not a 2nd/3rd world country - there's no excuse for that.
think about it,we will see it from the moon.

:cool:
i hope i'll get the lotery, this time...
What are the odds/

old news.

a fence treats a symptom of a bigger issue.
We need immigration reform. Rather than blocking people who want to come to this country, we need to streamline the process of becoming a legal citizen/green card holder/visas. The current process is rediculous

We also need to examine our foreign policies that create a situation that causes all these people to want to come here. Most of them aren't happy about it, but this is the only place in the Western hemisphere that they can find work.

If you think we have nothing to do with the economic conditions of Latin America, you're fooling yourself.

700 mile long fence along 2000 mile long border what?

Stupid White Men.
Built, no doubt, by those slightly brown gujs. Let's face it, if this fence wasn't built by Mexicans, what would it hold? "Made in america" is a joke. You need those guys to build the fence to 'protect' you.

I think we should build our own great wall. That way we can turn it into a tourist spot and generate some capital :)

I think we should build our own great wall. That way we can turn it into a tourist spot and generate some capital :)

Only if it's built from disused Coke bottles.

Only if it's built from disused Coke bottles.

Sounds like a plan :)

OOOoooooh......a fence!

I feel that the idea of a militarized border would be a better idea than just erecting a fence. You could have the soldiers armed with riot ammo to keep casualities at a minimum, at have a bi-lingual speaker at every outpost to issue a warning to trespassers in both English and Spanish. Now where will we get these troops to secure the border? Easy, we should withdraw from our pointless war in the middle east and attend to matters at home. After all, our military should be protecting it's citizens, not terrorizing underdeveloped nations in the middle east. And as far as the anti-mexican theme that i've seen a little of in this forum, i'm all for immigration to the US. My ancestors came from Italy back in the 1930's to start a new life here, but they did so legally and thru due process. If mexicans want to come here, then by all means, come on over, but do so legally. Illegal immigrants, Mexican or other nationalities, hurt our economy equally. They draw services from the welfare system and financial aid programs, all the while, they are not required to pay taxes for 7 years, so no money is being returned to the system. So in conclusion, do i beleive there should be a fence setup at the border? Yes, but it should only be a step in a long process of protecting our home.

have the soldiers armed with riot ammo to keep casualities at a minimum

Casualties? What planet are you from, anyway?

explain

A poor person in a developed country will not starve or die from dieases he gets from untreated water.

He will also have an opportunity to be educated, and be protected from crime by a police force.

In most developed countries, a very poor person will also get free health care.

None of this is true in a third world country.

As for your other post, it didnt make any sense in english.

Casualties? What planet are you from, anyway?

Earth, the last time i checked. i never said the situation would be non-violent, but sometimes extreme measures must be used for the greater good. I respect your opinion though. What would you do in this case then?

Earth, the last time i checked. i never said the situation would be non-violent, but sometimes extreme measures must be used for the greater good. I respect your opinion though. What would you do in this case then?
Looks to me like you're expecting the worst. As for what I'd do? Mellow 300 million Americans the Hell out for once in their anxiety-driven, paranoia-fed lives. Make 'em learn not to fear what lies between their legs half as much as who their neighbours are.

That's what I'd do.

I think that America was founded on the belif that it would be a beacon of liberty and a place where immegrants from all over can have a life without fear of oppression. I think building a fence along the US, Mexico border would be very stupid because: A. We don't have the personal to maintain the fence, B. It would cost a lot of money that the US needs for other stuff (like Education), and C. It's not going to stop the flow of of people there.

or.....we could round up illegals..have them build the fence(in liew of delinquent taxes)
boot them back over once it is done...then have the unemployed/welfare folk patrol the fence..they have an income...everyone is happy.

partially sarcastic.

Looks to me like you're expecting the worst. As for what I'd do? Mellow 300 million Americans the Hell out for once in their anxiety-driven, paranoia-fed lives. Make 'em learn not to fear what lies between their legs half as much as who their neighbours are.

That's what I'd do.

Then again, you've probably never lived in the US, so how would you have a solid view on what'd you'd do? Its the same for if it was a matter in another country. I don't live there, so how can i possibly understand what the people there are thinking, or how they really feel on an issue. I live in Muldoon TX, about 200 miles from the Mexican border, so i experience first hand the problems we deal with. And as far as Americans being "anxiety-driven" and full of paranoia, how would you live your life if your government was slowly stripping your rights away, constantly editing your news and media sources (which is why i watch news from outside the US), and always telling you that the threat of a terrorist attack is near. I doubt you'd be so calm and restrained.

Then again, you've probably never lived in the US, so how would you have a solid view on what'd you'd do? Its the same for if it was a matter in another country. I don't live there, so how can i possibly understand what the people there are thinking, or how they really feel on an issue. I live in Muldoon TX, about 200 miles from the Mexican border, so i experience first hand the problems we deal with. And as far as Americans being "anxiety-driven" and full of paranoia, how would you live your life if your government was slowly stripping your rights away, constantly editing your news and media sources (which is why i watch news from outside the US), and always telling you that the threat of a terrorist attack is near. I doubt you'd be so calm and restrained.

Well, I'm also not chock-a-block full of bovine growth hormones, either - and that probably helps explain my calm & restrained approach to living just as much as not being anxiety-driven or fed on paranoia. I note that you didn't deny this state of affairs, by the way - that Americans are, on the whole, anxious and fearful. Interesting.

Well, I'm also not chock-a-block full of bovine growth hormones, either - and that probably helps explain my calm & restrained approach to living just as much as not being anxiety-driven or fed on paranoia. I note that you didn't deny this state of affairs, by the way - that Americans are, on the whole, anxious and fearful. Interesting.

Well i'm not here to post lies. Are most Americans afraid of the current state our government is in, or how international affairs are going? Most definitely yes. And as far as making insults toward me "Well, I'm also not chock-a-block full of bovine growth hormones", why? I haven't tried to insult anyone in my previous posts. Aren't we just here to discuss topics and share our views and opinions?

Well i'm not here to post lies. Are most Americans afraid of the current state our government is in, or how international affairs are going? Most definitely yes. And as far as making insults toward me "Well, I'm also not chock-a-block full of bovine growth hormones", why? I haven't tried to insult anyone in my previous posts. Aren't we just here to discuss topics and share our views and opinions?

Shields down, there fella. That was just a throwaway quip not aimed directly at you.

Shields down, there fella. That was just a throwaway quip not aimed directly at you.

Alright then. Is there anyway we could talk outside of this forum though. You don't seem to be a bad guy and you do put up a good debate. I just don't want to spam this forum with our conversation is all.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-09-28-mexico-us-border_x.htm

There's an article dealing with this.

Personally, I think it's somewhat ridiculous. The arguments against illegal immigration is always "they cost our economy billions", but never "we save billions by paying them fuck-all to clean our pools". Small-town, backwards-looking paranoia from the white middle-class. As per usual.

As usual it is always somehow the white middle class fault. Bit racist don't you think? The arguement that they cost our economy billions is true. There is not enough pools in the world that Mexico could clean that would remotely add up to the cost of illegal immigration out of Mexico. Could hash over all the negatives to our economy because of illegals but it has already been hashed a billion times on NS general.

Alright then. Is there anyway we could talk outside of this forum though. You don't seem to be a bad guy and you do put up a good debate. I just don't want to spam this forum with our conversation is all.

Send me a TG - best way I can think to circumvent the forum. Though I don't often check my TGs, to be perfectly honest.

There is talk about putting up a fence along the USA and Mexico border. I personally think that it's a good idea. Mexico is saying they don't like that idea and may take it up with the UN.

What in the world can the UN do if the USA decides to build the fence along the border?

A snowflake will glaciate Mercury before the UN does anything in response to our defense of our sovereign border. Mexico can posture all it wants. We don't give a rat's ass. :p

"Fence may be built along USA/Mexico border"

Jesus be praised! At Last!

We've had too much of you poor-ass american springbreakers down here lately.

Come down to Boca after papa bought you style.

A fence may sound like a good idea to stopping illegal immigration but like so many things that look good on paper it just won't work in practice. People will either climb over it or dig under it. Top it with razor wire, electrifying the darn thing, and building a deep barrier underground would be way to expensive and pretty extreme. I don't think that China's wall wasn't a total success but I may be wrong.

What would stop illegal immigration are security cameras and patrols. Just build lots of towers and have personel on standby until a group is spotted coming over the border.

I wish I could remember who, but somebody said that the fence to keep the Mexicans out would never work, since the US would import Mexicans to build it.

What in the world can the UN do if the USA decides to build the fence along the border?

Not much, if the fence is inside US borders.

The point of this whole thing is to build a crappy fence.

If you build a good fence, then the illegals won't get through, and the industries that depend on the labour pool will collapse. To prevent this, the people who profit through these industries lobby, and give 'campaign contributions' to, politicians who maintain the status quo.

If you don't build a fence, then these politicians look like they are soft on immigration issues. This is bad as elections are coming up.

So the fence is two things: a face-saving gesture, and probably it is also a ...whattayacallit... 'pork barrel' project.

The point of this whole thing is to build a crappy fence.

If you build a good fence, then the illegals won't get through, and the industries that depend on the labour pool will collapse. To prevent this, the people who profit through these industries lobby, and give 'campaign contributions' to, politicians who maintain the status quo.

If you don't build a fence, then these politicians look like they are soft on immigration issues. This is bad as elections are coming up.

So the fence is two things: a face-saving gesture, and probably it is also a ...whattayacallit... 'pork barrel' project.

not to mention that crappy fences would be a boon for the fence industry who would be asked to rebuild it every election cycle.

Everybody wins.

I hope they build a concrete wall and then station armed national guards or army reserve on posts.

I have a better solution entirely - act upon the causes by creating jobs inside Mexico...

There... sorted...

I hope they build a concrete wall and then station armed national guards or army reserve on posts.

And what then?

I hope they build a concrete wall and then station armed national guards or army reserve on posts.

like some other famous wall? :eek:

like some other famous wall? :eek:
The one inside Palestine, or the one in Berlin?

I have a better solution entirely - act upon the causes by creating jobs inside Mexico...

There... sorted...

How about allowing the Mexicans create their own jobs in Mexico? The world bitches about America's Foreign policy So why not let them deal with their own problems. What is England doing to help the Mexicans?

How about allowing the Mexicans create their own jobs in Mexico?
If they could, they would...
The world bitches about America's Foreign policy So why not let them deal with their own problems.
The world "bitches" about the US' foreign policy because it's really crap, and everyone loses out in it but the US in most cases.

If the US uses its power to help itself and also the Mexicans, people aren't going to be complaining.
What is England doing to help the Mexicans?
In what way is England suffering from the issue of illegal immigration from Mexico?

I have a better solution entirely - act upon the causes by creating jobs inside Mexico...

There... sorted...
I don't see how it's America's responsibility to hold Mexico's hand. There are other ways of cutting illegal immigration, such as removing the economic incentive for people to sneak into the country. This could be achieved by jailing employers who knowingly employ illegal immigrants. I think that would deter employers from hiring illegal labour.

I hope this fence turns out better than the levees in New Orleans. :p

The point of this whole thing is to build a crappy fence.

If you build a good fence, then the illegals won't get through, and the industries that depend on the labour pool will collapse. To prevent this, the people who profit through these industries lobby, and give 'campaign contributions' to, politicians who maintain the status quo.

If you don't build a fence, then these politicians look like they are soft on immigration issues. This is bad as elections are coming up.

So the fence is two things: a face-saving gesture, and probably it is also a ...whattayacallit... 'pork barrel' project.

Crappy like less than half the length of the US-Mexican border? Because that's pretty crappy, I think.