NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm not expecting anyone to defend this sort of action here but maybe someone can explain why there is no public outcry? Remember demonstrations in Belgium when one black women was killed. Why isnt Blair condemning it? PM's always condemn this sort of racist killings. Why not much international attention like when a black boy was killed here couple years ago?


'Boy snatched off street, set alight and murdered for being white'
JOHN ROBERTSON LAW CORRESPONDENT

* Evidence given in Kriss Donald murder trial
* One of accused apparently sought revenge for previous assault
* Kriss Donald may have been targetted simply due to being white

Story in full
MURDERED schoolboy Kriss Donald pleaded: "I'm only 15. What did I do?" as he was beaten up and dragged into the back of a car by his abductors, a court heard yesterday.

He was forced face down into the back of a silver Mercedes, threatened with a knife and told there was a gun in the car as he was driven off after being snatched from the street "because he was white".

The High Court in Edinburgh yesterday heard that Kriss was attacked and taken from a street in Pollokshields, Glasgow, because one of the men accused of his murder, Imran Shahid, 29, was angry and sought revenge after claiming he had been attacked with a glass bottle outside a nightclub the night before.

It is alleged that Kriss was later set on fire and murdered. In the days following the discovery of his body, friends and family created an impromptu shrine, featuring photographs and football colours. A witness told the court that one of the gang had said: "He took it quietly."

The witness, Zahid Mohammed, 22, was originally accused of taking part in the murder. He pleaded guilty at the High Court in Glasgow in November 2004 to assault to injury on Kriss and attempting to pervert the course of justice. He was given a five-year jail term and was released on licence on Wednesday after applying for parole, the jurors were told.

The jury also heard that he gave evidence again in November 2004 at the same court in the trial of his co-accused, Daanish Zahid, who is named as an alleged accomplice in the current trial.

Imran Shahid, Mohammed Faisal Mushtaq, 27, and Zeeshan Shahid, 29, deny racially aggravated murder.

All three are on trial in Edinburgh, accused of abducting and killing Kriss by striking him with a knife or knives, then setting him on fire on 15 March, 2004.

Mohammed said that in March 2004 he was subject to a tagging order for motoring offences and possession of a knife. On Monday, 15 March, he went to Mushtaq's home in Pollokshields. The Shahid brothers were there, and Zahid joined them later. Mohammed described Imran Shahid, known as "Baldy", as quite angry and added: "He said he got attacked with a glass bottle the night before, outside a nightclub ... [by] the boys from McCulloch Street [Pollokshields]."

The witness said the "McCulloch Street boys" were white and Imran Shahid had vowed that he was going to take revenge and would "chop them up, take their eyes out, things like that".

It was planned that the group would go out in a car and look in McCulloch Street for "them ... anybody".

Mohammed said Imran Shahid asked for weapons and Mushtaq took a hammer and a screwdriver from a tool box and they were put in a blue carrier bag. Mohammed gave Imran Shahid a knife and helped him to dye his blond hair back to its natural dark colour.

They all got into a silver Mercedes car and drove to McCulloch Street where they saw two boys, now known to be Kriss Donald and a friend, Jamie Wallace, turning into Kenmure Street.

Imran Shahid said to let him out and he began fighting with the boys, especially Kriss. Mohammed agreed with a description of Imran Shahid's build as "massive" and said Kriss was "quite small" and could not fight back. Imran Shahid pushed Kriss into the car while Mushtaq pulled him in from the other side.

The advocate-depute, Mark Stewart, QC, asked how successful Kriss was in resisting and Mohammed replied: "Very little."

Mohammed said he had never met him before the incident. He agreed that nothing would have happened if Kriss and his friend had been Chinese, African-American or Asian. He said they were targeted because they were white.

Mr Stewart asked if Kriss had said anything. Mohammed answered: "Yes, he said, 'I'm only 15. What did I do?' or something like that."

Kriss was "scrunched down" in the footwell at the rear of the car, facing the floor. He was "scared".

Mohammed said that both he and Imran Shahid punched Kriss on the back and Imran Shahid had said: "I'm Baldy. Nobody f***s with me."

Also, Imran Shahid pressed the point of a knife against Kriss's back, and asked if he could feel it. The car went to a flat in the Parkhead area, but no-one was at home. A number of phone calls were made to try to find "a place or a park or something ... to batter Kriss". Imran Shahid threatened Kriss to force him to name the people from were the previous night. Kriss appeared to know what he was talking about and gave a few names.

Mohammed said he was dropped off at Strathclyde Park because he had to be home in time for his tagging curfew.

Next day, he went to Mushtaq's flat and spoke to Zeeshan Shahid, known as Crazy. "I asked what had happened. Crazy said, 'He took it quietly'." Mr Stewart ended by asking Mohammed: "Is the evidence you have given here today, sworn on the holy Koran, the truth?" Mohammed replied: "Yes."

David Burns, QC, for Imran Shahid, said Mohammed had done a deal with the prosecution by which he received a five-year sentence and agreed to give evidence against others. "You knew you would get life imprisonment if convicted of murder, and much less if you pleaded to something less?" asked Mr Burns.

Mohammed said: "Yes."

Donald Findlay, QC, for Mushtaq, accused the witness of being "a liar, pure and simple" and someone who was "cunning and conniving". The witness denied it.

Mr Findlay continued: "Co-incidentally, you were released from prison [in England] the day before you give evidence and got a lift here from the police."

He said on Mohammed's account, he might have supplied the weapon which killed Kriss. "Up to your neck in it is an understatement," suggested Mr Findlay.

Mohammed agreed with Norman Ritchie, QC, for Zeeshan Shahid, that he had been granted parole at the first time of asking and a police agreement that offered him a new home and a new identity when the trial ends.


http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1478452006

Why not much international attention like when a black boy was killed here couple years ago?

Because it doesn't fit the International Socialist agenda to stick up for whitey.

I'm not expecting anyone to defend this sort of action here but maybe someone can explain why there is no public outcry? Remember demonstrations in Belgium when one black women was killed. Why isnt Blair condemning it? PM's always condemn this sort of racist killings. Why not much international attention like when a black boy was killed here couple years ago?





Who are you referring to?

From what I gather, the murder took place in 2004, and you wonder why there is no public outcry now? Or what is your point?

Are we honestly at a point where we can't be outraged simply because a PERSON was snatched off the street and murdered? I don't care why somebody did it, that's fucked up. The fact that the victim was white is no more important than the fact that he was male or that he was 15 years old. He was a kid who was brutally killed. I think he's been victimized enough, without you exploiting his death for the sake of your personal agenda.

From what I gather, the murder took place in 2004, and you wonder why there is no public outcry now? Or what is your point?

Why there HASNT been any public outcry?

From what I gather, the murder took place in 2004, and you wonder why there is no public outcry now? Or what is your point?

I don't remember any public outcry THEN. I don't even remember this making the news.

Did it? Does anyone know if this made front page news?

Are we honestly at a point where we can't be outraged simply because a PERSON was snatched off the street and murdered? I don't care why somebody did it, that's fucked up. The fact that the victim was white is no more important than the fact that he was male or that he was 15 years old. He was a kid who was brutally killed. I think he's been victimized enough, without you exploiting his death for the sake of your personal agenda.

I was expecting something like this:


Mass protests against racist murder in Norway
By Steve James
13 February 2001

Use this version to print | Send this link by email

Tens of thousands of Norwegian citizens took to the streets of the capital Oslo and several other major towns and cities on February 1 to protest the murder of a 15-year-old Ghanaian-Norwegian. Benjamin Labaran Hermansen was killed last month in the Holmlia area of Oslo. With 40,000 on the streets of Oslo alone, press reports estimated the turnout to be the highest seen since a demonstration against the European Economic Community (the predecessor to the European Union) in 1972. Norway's population numbers only four million. Memorial demonstrations were also held on February 6 in the neighbouring Scandinavian capitals of Stockholm and Copenhagen, to coincide with Benjamin's funeral.

Benjamin was the victim of what appears to have been an unprovoked racist attack. Five neo-nazis were immediately arrested and another, Joe Erling Jahr, was held in Denmark pending extradition back to Norway. The alleged perpetrators, around a gang called the “Boot Boys”, include two 17-year-old women and two 21-year-old males. Gang members reportedly told police that under 19-year-old Jahr's leadership they had set out that evening to “get some foreigners”. Another report suggested that the group drove around on a “fishing” expedition looking for someone to attack. One of those arrested, Erik Lauritsen, has already spent seven months in jail for an arson attack on a kiosk run by Kurdish immigrants. Three of those under arrest for Benjamin's murder had been arrested and released two months ago after an attack on a Norwegian-African man. The group had apparently carried out a series of racist attacks and terrorised Holmlia and other areas of Oslo for some months.

One Reuters report suggested that Benjamin might have been targeted because of an appearance he made a year ago on Norwegian state television channel NRK, in which he denounced his treatment at the hands of Danish racists.

The press and the Labour government have called for tougher laws against the country's neo-nazis. Minister of Culture Ellen Horn went on NRK to propose that neo-nazi groups be banned. Horn, along with Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg, Crown Prince Haakon and visiting NATO Secretary General George Robertson, attended the February 1 demonstration. The Dagsavisen newspaper editorialised: “This must be a new eye-opener for the authorities and all the others who have refused to acknowledge Nazism and racism in Norway. Far too few have taken this diabolical wickedness seriously. Far too many have underestimated the explosive criminal force concealed in nazi and racist groupings.”

By presenting the small numbers of nazi thugs and their youthful admirers as something inexplicably alien to Norwegian society, the Labour government and newspapers like Dagsavisen try to conceal the responsibility of all the major parties for the growth of anti-immigrant racism.

Norway has some of the toughest anti-immigration policies in Europe, and the fiercely anti-immigrant and far-right Progress Party (PP) is currently supported by around 22 percent of voters. Labour, both in and out of government, has adapted its policies to embrace the xenophobic agenda put forward by PP and has cooperated with them at all levels of government.

Benjamin's murder was the latest in a series of racially motivated attacks and killings that have been encouraged by the prevailing political attitude to immigrants. The Norwegian Anti Racist Centre recorded 1,300 incidents between 1987 and 2000 that could be classed as racist, including cross burnings, shootings, incidents of arson, vandalism, violence and harassment. In contrast, the Central Statistics Bureau registered just 32 reports of racist incidents in Norway in 2000. In 1999, 17-year-old Indian-born Arve Beheim Karlsen fell to his death while being chased by a gang shouting, “Kill the ******.” To date his tormentors have only been charged with assault.

In 1999, the Norwegian Supreme Court upheld a decision allowing private landlords and accommodation agencies to choose as tenants “Norwegians only”, or people who “have some sort of idea of Norwegian culture and Norwegian way of living”. The attorney general is currently attempting to prevent a UN commission hearing evidence from an Oslo tenant to whom housing was refused on racial grounds.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/feb2001/norw-f13.shtml

Of course you being American, you are more used to violence so I dont expect you to understand demonstrations against violance.

Are we honestly at a point where we can't be outraged simply because a PERSON was snatched off the street and murdered? I don't care why somebody did it, that's fucked up. The fact that the victim was white is no more important than the fact that he was male or that he was 15 years old. He was a kid who was brutally killed. I think he's been victimized enough, without you exploiting his death for the sake of your personal agenda.

Agreed

OMG I linked to world socialist web site :eek: It was just too high on google :mad:

To the OP:

It's not in the scottish culture or character to make a particularly huge outcry, I think.

For example, that prostitute up here had her arm ripped off a couple of weeks ago, but only merited a few days of stories. Glaswegian neds hacking into each other isn't going to merit outcry either.

Why not much international attention like when a black boy was killed here couple years ago?Perhaps this is why:

Benjamin's murder was the latest in a series of racially motivated attacks and killings that have been encouraged by the prevailing political attitude to immigrants.People usually wait until a series of such events happen before protesting.

Why there HASNT been any public outcry?

Because people care less about white people than George Bush cares about black people.

Are we honestly at a point where we can't be outraged simply because a PERSON was snatched off the street and murdered? I don't care why somebody did it, that's fucked up. The fact that the victim was white is no more important than the fact that he was male or that he was 15 years old. He was a kid who was brutally killed. I think he's been victimized enough, without you exploiting his death for the sake of your personal agenda.

Very well said.

Of course you being American, you are more used to violence so I dont expect you to understand demonstrations against violance.

"You are latin american and used to be abused by men, so you cannot talk about women's rights"

"You are American, you are used to violence, and don't understand what is fighting against it"

Here's my quote for you, Ny Nordland. I'm just telling the truth as I see it, without will to offend you in any particular way.

You, sir, are a bigot.You spread of intolerance in the 21st century is only comparable to the spread of pox in the past. Your only argument is ad hominem, based in the place of procedence of those arguing against you. You are racist, and post here not to discuss, but to try to advance your agenda, which is against the mainstream of thought of the western culture, and even illegal in some parts of the world.

Perhaps this is why:

People usually wait until a series of such events happen before protesting.

Wrong.


Asians 'behind most racial violence'
Oldham's police chief has said Asian youths are responsible for more than half the racist attacks in the town.

Chief Superintendent Eric Hewitt said he was concerned about the increase of racist attacks by gangs of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin.

He said that in the past 12 months there had been 572 racial incidents, 60% of which were committed by Asians against white men.

Mr Hewitt has called an emergency meeting on Friday with community leaders and council representatives to discuss the situation.

The meeting follows an attack last week by a group of Asian men on a white man who was left seriously injured.

The victim, 23-year-old Mark Clayton, was stabbed twice in the leg and lost about five pints of blood when a main artery was severed.

Other recent incidents include one in which a white man was hit on the head by Asian assailants who then set their Rottweiler dog on him.

But an Oldham councillor, Abdul Quayum, criticised Chf Supt Hewitt's decision to focus on assaults committed by Asian men.

Mr Quayum expressed sympathy with the victim of last week's attack and called on the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities to come forward if they had any information about the crime.

He said such attacks and those committed by white men against Asians were part of a long running problem in the area.

" I think that the issue is broader than that. We really need to get to the root of the problem which has been around for a number of years," he said.

Mr Quayum added that Chief Superintendent Hewitt had singled out Asians for criticism before.

"This is not the first time he's made statements like this. He has a history of blaming only one part of the community," he said.

The chief executive of Oldham Council, Andrew Kilburn, condemned the recent attacks.

"There is simply no excuse for violence between groups of people, whoever the perpetrators might be, whether they are of Asian, black or white origin.

"As a council we have been working and will continue to work with the various agencies in the town," he said.

'Racism not rife'

The Oldham area tops the list of racial incidents reported to Greater Manchester police.

ts 452 incidents in 1999/2000 compare with 207 in Bolton, a larger town with a comparable ethnic population.

But Councillor Keith Pendlebury, who chairs Oldham's social development committee, denied the town was any more violent than neighbouring areas.

He said the figures needed to be put into context.

"The report of Greater Manchester Police, from which the figures are taken, does point out that Oldham has for a number of years had a system of reporting which is better developed than in the other boroughs.

"Oldham Council is not complacent about the situation, but we do argue that Oldham is not substantially different from other similar sized towns in the region where the racial and cultural mix of the population is comparable to ours," he said.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1160552.stm




Asian gang guilty of racist killing

AN ASIAN gang who boasted they had killed an Englishman after they kicked him to death in university grounds were yesterday found guilty of his murder.

Sajid Zulfiqar was heard to say: "We have killed the white man. That will teach an Englishman to interfere in Paki business."

Christopher Yates, 30, was felled to the ground and his head "kicked like a football" by Zulfiqar and two other Asian men, the Old Bailey was told.

Zulfiqar, 25, Zahid Bashir, 23, and Imran Maqsood, 21, all unemployed, of Ilford, east London, were remanded in custody for sentencing tomorrow.

Mr Yates was set upon in an unprovoked attack when he came across the group of men, who had been drinking in the car park of the University of East London, in Barking.

Mr Yates's head was stamped on and he died from multiple injuries to his face in November last year, said Anthony Leonard, QC, prosecuting.

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=2285652005

Odd... a Google search turns up a lot of statements condeming this act...

Hmm...

Odd... a Google search turns up a lot of statements condeming this act...

Hmm...

Lets ignore thoes ... not a big enough show for the OP

Now, having read it, and possibly misinterpreting it (and if so, please do clarify), it just seems like he was caught in the crossfire of a gangwar. MCB vs The Baldy Boys (dunno their gang name, but their leader is Baldy) - MCB attacks them by throwing a glass bottle at one of TBB's guys, they retailiate by finding a kid they think is connected to MCB and killing him. Just so happens that MCB was full of white people.

"You are latin american and used to be abused by men, so you cannot talk about women's rights"

"You are American, you are used to violence, and don't understand what is fighting against it"

Here's my quote for you, Ny Nordland. I'm just telling the truth as I see it, without will to offend you in any particular way.

You, sir, are a bigot.You spread of intolerance in the 21st century is only comparable to the spread of pox in the past. Your only argument is ad hominem, based in the place of procedence of those arguing against you. You are racist, and post here not to discuss, but to try to advance your agenda, which is against the mainstream of thought of the western culture, and even illegal in some parts of the world.


You, madam, are too emotional. American crime rates (both overall and per capita) are much higher than most maybe all european countries. So it is logical to assume she might be numbER because she is more used to it. Simple reasoning.

You, madam, are too emotional. American crime rates (both overall and per capita) are much higher than most maybe all european countries. So it is logical to assume she might be numbER because she is more used to it. Simple reasoning.
Exactly in the same way that Germans don't care about genocide, right? :rolleyes:

Odd... a Google search turns up a lot of statements condeming this act...

Hmm...

links? any mass gatherings like this? (http://www.mirror.co.uk/tm_objectid=16751713&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=french-march-against-racism-after-jew-s-killing-name_page.html)

I'm not expecting anyone to defend this sort of action here but maybe someone can explain why there is no public outcry? Remember demonstrations in Belgium when one black women was killed. Why isnt Blair condemning it? PM's always condemn this sort of racist killings. Why not much international attention like when a black boy was killed here couple years ago?



http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1478452006





Karma ?

Wrong.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1160552.stm

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=2285652005These two and the first story all all in different areas. It doesn't say where the racist attacks occurred in Norway, but I'd imagine most of them occurred in Oslo, where the attack on Benjamin occurred. People are less likely to be aware of a series of racist attacks if they're in different parts of the country than if they're in the same locale.

Exactly in the same way that Germans don't care about genocide, right? :rolleyes:

And the Japanese don't care about nuclear weaponry.

Exactly in the same way that Germans don't care about genocide, right? :rolleyes:

yeah an event in which one person is killed and other in which millions were killed and europe layed in ruins is comparable.

The title would be so much better if it was

"Boy snatched off the street and set alight,
murdered for being white"

You'd have a nice little poem there.

links? any mass gatherings like this? (http://www.mirror.co.uk/tm_objectid=16751713&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=french-march-against-racism-after-jew-s-killing-name_page.html)
So far you've shown us a mass gatherings in France and in Norway. Did you perhaps forget that we're dealing with the UK?

These two and the first story all all in different areas. It doesn't say where the racist attacks occurred in Norway, but I'd imagine most of them occurred in Oslo, where the attack on Benjamin occurred. People are less likely to be aware of a series of racist attacks if they're in different parts of the country than if they're in the same locale.

Keep trying to find excuses.

yeah an event in which one person is killed and other in which millions were killed and europe layed in ruins is comparable.
One person? We're talking about the sum total of all crime in USA and Europe; that USA has more crime and is therefore less caring about it. I think the effects of that crime would be comparable to the Holocaust.

Keep trying to find excuses.Excuses? What needs to be excused?

You, madam, are too emotional. American crime rates (both overall and per capita) are much higher than most maybe all european countries. So it is logical to assume she might be numbER because she is more used to it. Simple reasoning.
That makes NO sense what-so-ever, given the relative size of the United States and it's population make up spead over far larger a land mass than the whole of Europe...

You have Americans that come from areas that see murders every day and areas where littering is the biggest crime in the last 50 years.

yeah an event in which one person is killed and other in which millions were killed and europe layed in ruins is comparable.

well - you'd think they'd be used to it by now...

That makes NO sense what-so-ever, given the relative size of the United States and it's population make up spead over far larger a land mass than the whole of Europe...

You have Americans that come from areas that see murders every day and areas where littering is the biggest crime in the last 50 years.

Yeah dont see many muders up here in small town minnesota

Simple reasoning.
Something you're incapable of, but why let that stop you, huh?

Ny,

the marches you linked to are about unsolved murders, at least at the time of the vigils and protests.

the killers in scotland were apprehended immediatley and processed through the criminal justice system.

thats the difference, the peole felt no need to react as the killers were behind bars. case closed.

stop trying to find agendas in child murders you cynical git

Homicides in Philadelphia to date 310 .......plus who ever got dead over the week end ...

Only one was burned to death on purpose ..a few were burned after being shot to try to cover up ..and one was burned and shot because they really didnt like the dude ..

How many Murders in Norway in the last five years ?

Ny,

the marches you linked to are about unsolved murders, at least at the time of the vigils and protests.

the killers in scotland were apprehended immediatley and processed through the criminal justice system.

thats the difference, the peole felt no need to react as the killers were behind bars. case closed.

stop trying to find agendas in child murders you cynical git

Unsolved murders wasnt the case in Norway and Belgium, just to name few.

The main reason there wasn't a public outcry with protests and marches was the mother didn't want her sons death to be turned into a racist witch hunt.

http://www.cre.gov.uk/Default.aspx.LocID-0hgnew04h.RefLocID-0hg00900c002.Lang-EN.htm

I would like to echo Angela Donald's call for calm – the best memorial for Kriss would be if all of Pollokshields' communities unite and bring those responsible to justice

This is obviously part of the conspiracy to eliminate the White Race. :rolleyes:

The main reason there wasn't a public outcry with protests and marches was the mother didn't want her sons death to be turned into a racist witch hunt.

http://www.cre.gov.uk/Default.aspx.LocID-0hgnew04h.RefLocID-0hg00900c002.Lang-EN.htm

"Racist witch hunt" and demonstration against racism are 2 different things. Or maybe a demonstration against asian racist crimes, since they commit the majority of racist crimes.

This is obviously part of the conspiracy to eliminate the White Race. :rolleyes:

Ok... :rolleyes:

"Racist witch hunt" and demonstration against racism are 2 different things. Or maybe a demonstration against asian racist crimes, since they commit the majority of racist crimes.Do you have evidence of this?

Do you have evidence of this?

Are you blind to colour red in page 2?

"Racist witch hunt" and demonstration against racism are 2 different things. Or maybe a demonstration against asian racist crimes, since they commit the majority of racist crimes.

really?
any proof of that

http://www.cre.gov.uk/research/statistics_cj.html

British Crime Survey data since 1993 indicates that the risk of being a victim of a racially motivated crime was:
0.5% or less for white groups;
6% for Pakistani/Bangladeshi groups; and
3.2% for black groups
[Home Office 2001. HORS 223].

really?
any proof of that

http://www.cre.gov.uk/research/statistics_cj.html

Since whites are the majority, 0.5% of whites is far greater than 6% of Asian groups.

This is obviously part of the conspiracy to eliminate the White Race. :rolleyes:


I can get you some spray that turns you brown...cheap...let me know...;)

Are you blind to colour red in page 2?What does a 'racial incident' mean? The article doesn't say.

"Racist witch hunt" and demonstration against racism are 2 different things. Or maybe a demonstration against asian racist crimes, since they commit the majority of racist crimes.

Why would it be necessary to demonstrate specifically against racist crimes commited by asians? Why not make it about general racism? I dont see how specifying the target helps a cause

Why would it be necessary to demonstrate specifically against racist crimes commited by asians? Why not make it about general racism? I dont see how specifying the target helps a cause

Because "asians are behind most racial violence" despite being a slim minority.

Because "asians are behind most racial violence" despite being a slim minority.

But asian aren't a slim minority in Oldham, I suggest you do some research before using the area I live in to promote your racist agenda ;)

But asian aren't a slim minority in Oldham, I suggest you do some research before using the area I live in to promote your racist agenda ;)

Ah yeah my agenda to rule NSG :rolleyes:
What % are they?

Because "asians are behind most racial violence" despite being a slim minority.

But why would targeting racism in general take away from the targeting of asian racism?

But why would targeting racism in general take away from the targeting of asian racism?

Because, silly goose, he's a white racist. He's only against OTHER forms of racism.

Exactly in the same way that Germans don't care about genocide, right? :rolleyes:

I hope that is pure sarcasm on your part, because you could not be more wrong!

In Japan (to my knowledge) the second world war is not taught as part of the school agenda, nor is it refer to in history texts. In Germany on the other hand, the holocaust, in all its gorry details, is taught to every single school child, without sugar coating or political bias, and in year 10 every student is taken on an excursion to Auschwitz, Belzec, Chelmno, etc - to a death camp, where they are told of the mass genocide that occurred there, again in all its gory details.

Every German knows of the holocaust and is raised to feel atleast in part responsible for the mass genocide of their forefathers. I very much doubt there is ANY country in the world that cares MORE about genocide.

Btw, if you were being sarcastic, just ignore my random rant.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the kid set on fire for being white issue, in my politically incorrect opinion - yet another example of reverse racism! I personally have nothing but contempt for the way everyone gets up in arms whenever any minority is killed, attacked, hurt, not selected for a job, not selected for a basketball game, stubbs their toe, etc, etc, BUT no-one even notices when a kid who is not a minority gets set on fire and murdered. And if anyone points out this extreme irony, they're a racist!
(my apologies to everyone I undoubtably offended with this paragraph)

However, I imagine a large part of why there was no media attention or outcry was due simply to the world we now live in. Pre 9-11, everyone could have been up in arms, protests and memorials, the whole bit. But Post-911, with every news day reporting on more dead soldiers and insurgents in Iraq and Afganistan, more killed from a terrorist attack in the West, and even more killed in a plane crash, train crash or a random natural disaster, I am not surprised people failed to notice the death, however gruesome and racially motivated, of a single person when compared to the hundreds that are dying all over the world every day in the "War on Terror".

But hey, that's just my opinion, feel free to ignore it.

But why would targeting racism in general take away from the targeting of asian racism?

I wasnt talking about targeting racism, I was talking about targeting racist violence. Asians can be as much as racist they please as long as they keep it to themselves and/or act civilized about it, I really dont care.

Ah yeah my agenda to rule NSG :rolleyes:
What % are they?

I don't know, but in an area of 187162 people, people on Pakistani and Bangladeshi descent alone make up 23571 as of 2001.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/00bp.asp

I don't know, but in an area of 187162 people, people on Pakistani and Bangladeshi descent alone make up 23571 as of 2001.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/00bp.asp

So bit over 12 percent

Because, silly goose, he's a white racist. He's only against OTHER forms of racism.

Ok... :rolleyes:

I wasnt talking about targeting racism, I was talking about targeting racist violence. Asians can be as much as racist they please as long as they keep it to themselves and/or act civilized about it, I really dont care.

That still doesnt change the point of my question i.e. interchange racism with racist violence

So bit over 12 percent

Yes, but that is only the two largest minority groups, the British census is a bit crap like that.

<snip>
The :rolleyes: usually denotes sarcasm :p

I don't know, but in an area of 187162 people, people on Pakistani and Bangladeshi descent alone make up 23571 as of 2001.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/00bp.asp

12% is still a minority. And a group who accounts for 12% of the population commits most of the racist violence crimes in which 60% is asians against whites. That's huge overrepresentation. Besides the percentage of overall asian racism might be higher (i.e: asians agianst south american)

Every German knows of the holocaust and is raised to feel atleast in part responsible for the mass genocide of their forefathers.

Which is why it can be really difficult for me to hate Ahmadinejad, sometimes.

That still doesnt change the point of my question i.e. interchange racism with racist violence

As I said, they commit the majority of such crimes and it need highlighting, IMO.

I'm not expecting anyone to defend this sort of action here but maybe someone can explain why there is no public outcry?
Racially-motivated murders are depressingly common in Britain. They only make national news in rare cases (like the Damilola murder).

As I said, they commit the majority of such crimes and it need highlighting, IMO.

If you pinpoint that specific group you risk (rightly or wrongly) being called racist yourself which isnt going to help your cause

Racially-motivated murders are depressingly common in Britain. They only make national news in rare cases (like the Damilola murder).

Really? And you are the model of European multiculturalism, a "success story".

12% is still a minority. And a group who accounts for 12% of the population commits most of the racist violence crimes in which 60% is asians against whites. That's huge overrepresentation. Besides the percentage of overall asian racism might be higher (i.e: asians agianst south american)

So you're using a town of 200000 as proof that across a country of 60 million asian commit more racist attacks than other races?

So you're using a town of 200000 as proof that across a country of 60 million asian commit more racist attacks than other races?

Are really colour blind to red? Did you read the second coloured part in page 2? Was it you who asked for proof 1st time, I really cant keep track of you people who cant read.

This seems appropriate to post.

http://i.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/06-24-05-news/jhnnywalkr1.jpg

This seems appropriate to post.



Are you pointing to the issue of sexism? That cheap USA media cares more for pretty girls?

Edit: I just realized it's bogus anyways, after reading the below, writing bulletin...

I'm not expecting anyone to defend this sort of action here but maybe someone can explain why there is no public outcry? Remember demonstrations in Belgium when one black women was killed. Why isnt Blair condemning it? PM's always condemn this sort of racist killings. Why not much international attention like when a black boy was killed here couple years ago?



http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1478452006

Life in prison, without parole.

Are really colour blind to red? Did you read the second coloured part in page 2? Was it you who asked for proof 1st time, I really cant keep track of you people who cant read.

"Oldham Council is not complacent about the situation, but we do argue that Oldham is not substantially different from other similar sized towns in the region where the racial and cultural mix of the population is comparable to ours," he said.

Note the use of the terms 'region' and 'cultural mix of the population is comparable to ours'. It seems my ability to read far surpasses yours' to comprehend. Oldham and the region surrounding it are not indicative of the nation as a whole, the population of ethnic minorities is disproportionatly high leading to problem not suffered in other parts of the country.

Edit:Oh and no it wasn't me that asked for proof before, it seems your strange ramblings on race confuse more than jsut one person around here.

Really? And you are the model of European multiculturalism, a "success story".
Since when? Britain's full of racists, it's just that most of my fellow lefties are scared that if they admit it then people will start blaming the immigrants (a bit like blaming paedophilia on the numbers of small children around...).

Since when? Britain's full of racists, it's just that most of my fellow lefties are scared that if they admit it then people will start blaming the immigrants (a bit like blaming paedophilia on the numbers of small children around...).
You win the analogy award of the day.

Are really colour blind to red? Did you read the second coloured part in page 2? Was it you who asked for proof 1st time, I really cant keep track of you people who cant read.Your ad hominem aside, the red part still doesn't prove your case. What does a 'racial incident' mean?

You win the analogy award of the day.
Cool. I'd like to thank my parents, who have been like the USA to my Saudi Arabia, [etc.]

Note the use of the terms 'region' and 'cultural mix of the population is comparable to ours'. It seems my ability to read far surpasses yours' to comprehend. Oldham and the region surrounding it are not indicative of the nation as a whole, the population of ethnic minorities is disproportionatly high leading to problem not suffered in other parts of the country.

LOL. I think you are flattering yourself wayyyyy too much :rolleyes:

'cultural mix of the population is comparable to ours': asians commiting most racist violence (which is against whites) desbite being a minority.

I guess places whose mix of population is not comparable to Oldham are places with Asian majority and I dont want to imagine the situation there.

'region': I assumed they meant England..as in regions as in Scotland, Wales, etc...

Since whites are the majority, 0.5% of whites is far greater than 6% of Asian groups.

Never mind that Pakistanis are 12 times more likely than whites to be victims of racial violence. Nope. There just HAVE to be 12 times as many whites in the UK as Pakistanis, so since that statistic can be twisted to suit your needs, it is. The only reason I come into these threads is to poke holes in your racist venom.

'region': I assumed they meant England..as in regions as in Scotland, Wales, etc...

Wouldn't bet on that. People dont tend to thing of the different countries as regions specifically.

LOL. I think you are flattering yourself wayyyyy too much :rolleyes:

'cultural mix of the population is comparable to ours': asians commiting most racist violence (which is against whites) desbite being a minority.

I guess places whose mix of population is not comparable to Oldham are places with Asian majority and I dont want to imagine the situation there.

'region': I assumed they meant England..as in regions as in Scotland, Wales, etc...

No, places that don't have a cultural mix similar to Oldham will have a smaller ethnic population. Oldham has a disproportionatly high % of minorities living in it, it goes back to the industrial roots of the town but I'm not getting into that right now. Are you sure you want to continue claim a good reading comprehension ability?

'Region', he means the North West.

Never mind that Pakistanis are 12 times more likely than whites to be victims of racial violence. Nope. There just HAVE to be 12 times as many whites in the UK as Pakistanis, so since that statistic can be twisted to suit your needs, it is. The only reason I come into these threads is to poke holes in your racist venom.

Yes racist attacks against pakistanis are overrepresented. But we dont know who does those racist attacks (whites, blacks, etc?).
And you...nevermind that asians are hugely overrepresented as racist violence criminals as well.

No, places that don't have a cultural mix similar to Oldham will have a smaller ethnic population. Oldham has a disproportionatly high % of minorities living in it, it goes back to the industrial roots of the town but I'm not getting into that right now. Are you sure you want to continue claim a good reading comprehension ability?

'Region', he means the North West.

So high % of minorities might make whites as the most victims of racist violence, at least in "North West".

Yes racist attacks against pakistanis are overrepresented. But we dont know who does those racist attacks (whites, blacks, etc?).
And you...nevermind that asians are hugely overrepresented as racist violence criminals as well.

That has no point to the statement you quoted. Its like saying they deserve it or something

This is precisely why I support the Death Penalty. Every so often I drift away from my support of capital punishment but then a crime like this comes along and I immediately come back to my senses.

So high % of minorities might make whites as the most victims of racist violence, at least in "North West".

In towns of a similar size as Oldham.

In face that polices guys comments pretty much described in so much detail the places suffering from the same problems as Oldham that I can think of only a few places in the are that fit the bill. A far cry from your claim that it represented the whole of the UK wouldn't you say?

Yes racist attacks against pakistanis are overrepresented. But we dont know who does those racist attacks (whites, blacks, etc?).
And you...nevermind that asians are hugely overrepresented as racist violence criminals as well.

Well gollllllll-eeee, a group that's a victim AND a perpetrator of racist crimes. It begs the question of who started it? At this point, it doesn't look like anyone's even being killed for being white; they're killed for not being Pakistani. It doesn't matter who's committing these crimes. It does matter that white folks are more readily available victims, sure. If white people don't want to be killed for being white, they should paint themselves green so they can be killed for being green. That or we need to start re-educating these people to play by the rules, and then start telling people in whatever way works best to back off the law-abiding ones.

The attitude of "us vs. them" only makes the problem worse. Especially when it's Pakistanis vs. everyone else, and splintering whites off only makes the problem more complicated. It's complicated enough already.

This is precisely why I support the Death Penalty. Every so often I drift away from my support of capital punishment but then a crime like this comes along and I immediately come back to my senses.

Nah, there are worse things we can do to murderous assholes than kill them.

In towns of a similar size as Oldham.

In face that polices guys comments pretty much described in so much detail the places suffering from the same problems as Oldham that I can think of only a few places in the are that fit the bill. A far cry from your claim that it represented the whole of the UK wouldn't you say?

Yet there is no national statistics about who commits the most racist violence, or at least none that I could have found yet. Maybe british authorities were afraid to publish such statistics because it might demonize poor ethnic minorities. :(

The attitude of "us vs. them" only makes the problem worse. Especially when it's Pakistanis vs. everyone else, and splintering whites off only makes the problem more complicated. It's complicated enough already.

Well said sir. Applause given.

Yet there is no national statistics about who commits the most racist violence, or at least none that I could have found yet. Maybe british authorities were afraid to publish such statistics because it might demonize poor ethnic minorities. :(

That is to say, none PUBLISHED. Freedom of Information act, people!

And as for statistics of racist violence, no-one will really know what the attackers motivation is, no matter what we do to try and figure it out. It's ridiculous to try. Therefore, any "statistics" will be purely estimative and will be wrong, even if it is to a percentage. However, 0.0001 of a percent can make that difference between Ny's argument being justified in the slightest, or falling flat on its face.

The attitude of "us vs. them" only makes the problem worse. Especially when it's Pakistanis vs. everyone else, and splintering whites off only makes the problem more complicated. It's complicated enough already.
But it's so much easier to work out what to do when one side are the righteous sons of god and the other are the spawn of the devil...

Yet there is no national statistics about who commits the most racist violence, or at least none that I could have found yet. Maybe british authorities were afraid to publish such statistics because it might demonize poor ethnic minorities. :(

So you finally admit that you have no proof that Asians commit the most racial based attacks throughout the Uk?

I am intrigued by why Nordie feels the need to post such stories about the UK all the time. Does he hate us?? (all races/religions included here)

Go on...post something about Norway (lack of points in Eurovision Song Contest, high suicide rate, most expensive beer in the world ;) )

So you finally admit that you have no proof that Asians commit the most racial based attacks throughout the Uk?

No but most victims of "racially motivated crime" are whites.

No but most victims of "racially motivated crime" are whites.

If that is ever the case, that's only because we're the majority in the area. Looking at it percentage-wise, I daresay we fall very low along the scale.

Looking at numbers without ratios is silly - it proves nothing, lest you can't do your research right.

If that is ever the case, that's only because we're the majority in the area. Looking at it percentage-wise, I daresay we fall very low along the scale.

You arent arab?

No but most victims of "racially motivated crime" are whites.

Ok, now I ask you for proof of this assertation, bearing in mind that we have worked together to debunk the words of the police guys in the article you quoted as 'proof'.

You arent arab?

Good heavens no. English, white(to make the point). And I've never been attacked, jeered at, insulted, etc for being so.

Pan-Arab Barronia is more for RPing purposes.

I'm not expecting anyone to defend this sort of action here but maybe someone can explain why there is no public outcry? Remember demonstrations in Belgium when one black women was killed. Why isnt Blair condemning it? PM's always condemn this sort of racist killings. Why not much international attention like when a black boy was killed here couple years ago?



http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1478452006

I think there is no outcry because most people fear that raising an outcry on this would only stir more racism against immigrates in Europe.

Can anybody tell the difference between this statement from the British National Party:

The media in Britain are playing a very dangerous game with their coverage of racist murders of whites. When any ethnic minority (a term no longer acceptable in contemporary Britain as in many of our cities and towns indigenous whites are now the ethnic minority) in Britain is killed by a ' white ' then this racist murder is front page news for weeks. One has only to see the hysteria that surrounded the murder of Stephen Lawrence to see how the ' politics of racism ' dictate the media and governments response to any murder. No public inquiries have been set up to investigate any of the countless murders of white people by ethnic minorities in Britain at any time, nor have th media ever called for public inquiries. Whilst the political issue of so called ' Institutional Racism ' is never far from the front page of the papers the equally valid issue of ' State and Government culpability' in the murders of whites killed by immigrants allowed to enter and live in Britain is never addressed. This is the form of government ' Institutional Racism ' against white people that they do not want us to ever address or debate.

and the ones by Ny Nordland?

Nah, me neither.

How does it feel to be a Quisling Ny?

Can anybody tell the difference between this statement from the British National Party:

The media in Britain are playing a very dangerous game with their coverage of racist murders of whites. When any ethnic minority (a term no longer acceptable in contemporary Britain as in many of our cities and towns indigenous whites are now the ethnic minority) in Britain is killed by a ' white ' then this racist murder is front page news for weeks. One has only to see the hysteria that surrounded the murder of Stephen Lawrence to see how the ' politics of racism ' dictate the media and governments response to any murder. No public inquiries have been set up to investigate any of the countless murders of white people by ethnic minorities in Britain at any time, nor have th media ever called for public inquiries. Whilst the political issue of so called ' Institutional Racism ' is never far from the front page of the papers the equally valid issue of ' State and Government culpability' in the murders of whites killed by immigrants allowed to enter and live in Britain is never addressed. This is the form of government ' Institutional Racism ' against white people that they do not want us to ever address or debate.

and the ones by Ny Nordland?

Nah, me neither.

How does it feel to be a Quisling Ny?

I have had the privelage of tearing down and burning a BNP poster before the last election. They even beat UKIP in my constituency, and that's bloody scary.

No but most victims of "racially motivated crime" are whites.

Can you back that up?

Can you back that up?

No he can't, people have been asking him to do it since page 2 and he has repeatedly sidestepped.

Are we honestly at a point where we can't be outraged simply because a PERSON was snatched off the street and murdered? I don't care why somebody did it, that's fucked up. The fact that the victim was white is no more important than the fact that he was male or that he was 15 years old. He was a kid who was brutally killed. I think he's been victimized enough, without you exploiting his death for the sake of your personal agenda.

Well, you'd be in a sorry state if you got angry EVERY time a person was murdered. I read, one year, that in NYC the first murder of the new year happened at 12:42 AM. That was barely enough time for the kissing to have stopped.

Its probably been posted but you more likely to be a victim of crime if your of mixed race..

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=467

So I guess the main point is, having reviewed the postings so far:

*Ny Nordland isn't racist. Do not be preposterous.

*Ny Nordland is just concerned about the White Race being persecuted and destroyed by Asians, Blacks and other Multicultural NonWhites, who are more likely to commit crime.

*Disagreeing with Ny Nordland is a reliable indication that you are probably American, Non-White or a Pawn of the Evil Liberal Annihilation Front. There is no other reason.

Can you back that up?

He won't be able to, because it isn't actually true.

The typical hate offender is a young white male (most homophobic offenders are aged 16-20, and most race hate offenders under 30) who lives locally to the victim.

From http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/hate-crime/

This report was published on 2002 (and is about 1999 figures) but I'd assume it's still relevant.

In 1999, the risk of being the victim of a racially motivated incident was considerably higher for members of minority ethnic groups than for White people.

The highest risk was for Pakistani and Bangladeshi people at 4.2 per cent, followed by 3.6 per cent for Indian people and 2.2 per cent for Black people. This compared with 0.3 per cent for White people.

Racially motivated incidents represented 12 per cent of all crime against minority ethnic people compared with 2 per cent for White people.

From http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=267

I don't think it's unreasonable to question the motives for starting this thread, considering the OP is either incredibly ignorant of the facts or is deliberately falsifying them.

Its probably been posted but you more likely to be a victim of crime if your of mixed race..

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=467
Chinese people are Asian! :mad: Hamilay smash!
Out of curiosity, is it the norm in Britain for Asian to refer to Middle Easterners rather than including the rest of Asia?

Chinese people are Asian! :mad: Hamilay smash!
Out of curiosity, is it the norm in Britain for Asian to refer to Middle Easterners rather than including the rest of Asia?

People usually say Asian rather than Middle-Eastern or Arab on the news, I think.

Sad
:(
Cleaned out or not.
i guess he/she just became transparent.
A lot of meanings,should spark the WAR .

He won't be able to, because it isn't actually true.

The typical hate offender is a young white male (most homophobic offenders are aged 16-20, and most race hate offenders under 30) who lives locally to the victim.

From http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/hate-crime/


We are talking about racist violence. Hate crimes on the other hand have a broader meaning, including homophobia, as is exampled on your quote.


This report was published on 2002 (and is about 1999 figures) but I'd assume it's still relevant.

In 1999, the risk of being the victim of a racially motivated incident was considerably higher for members of minority ethnic groups than for White people.

The highest risk was for Pakistani and Bangladeshi people at 4.2 per cent, followed by 3.6 per cent for Indian people and 2.2 per cent for Black people. This compared with 0.3 per cent for White people.

Racially motivated incidents represented 12 per cent of all crime against minority ethnic people compared with 2 per cent for White people.

From http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=267


Yes but since white people are the majority, more white people are subject to racist violence, in numbers. And still we dont know which group commits the most racist violence. 4.2 per cent of Pakistani and Bangladeshi might be subject to it but a majority of this may be caused by other non-white people.
In the case of North western England, most racist violence are done by asians against whites.


I don't think it's unreasonable to question the motives for starting this thread, considering the OP is either incredibly ignorant of the facts or is deliberately falsifying them.

That or your reasoning skills arent very good.

That or your reasoning skills arent very good.

I think I'll put my money on "that." You haven't been shown to be a particularly objective or skilled judge of reasoning abilities.

No he can't, people have been asking him to do it since page 2 and he has repeatedly sidestepped.

This has been explained here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11787381&postcount=46

I see that you still cant read. And again, I was right thinking you were flattering yourself way too much on the reading comprehension issue.

Are we honestly at a point where we can't be outraged simply because a PERSON was snatched off the street and murdered? I don't care why somebody did it, that's fucked up. The fact that the victim was white is no more important than the fact that he was male or that he was 15 years old. He was a kid who was brutally killed. I think he's been victimized enough, without you exploiting his death for the sake of your personal agenda.

Nice post. :)

:fluffle:

why the hell should we care if people kill eachother? blacks killings whites whites killing blacks and asians killing both and every "race" killing another..
let them at it... I don't care

why the hell should we care if people kill eachother? blacks killings whites whites killing blacks and asians killing both and every "race" killing another..
let them at it... I don't care
ghe doesn't care.
;)

We are talking about racist violence. Hate crimes on the other hand have a broader meaning, including homophobia, as is exampled on your quote.But there are a greater number of racist attacks than there are homophobic attacks, so it's reasonable to conclude that has bearing on this. Particuarly as they don't say otherwise in that report and you have not provided one iota of evidence to the contrary. Instead prefering to just repeat yourself again and again. You seem to believe that your view is more important than the facts. Frankly, considering the lack of critical faculties you've constantly shown on this thread, I'd consider my five year old nephew to be a more reliable source than you.

Yes but since white people are the majority, more white people are subject to racist violence, in numbers. And still we dont know which group commits the most racist violence.So, as a percentage of the population, you accept that whites commit more racially motivated incidents then? You don't seriously think that you shouldn't judge the number of incidents in relation to the number of a particular ethnicity in a society, surely? Of course you don't. That would be a completly farcial position to take. 4.2 per cent of Pakistani and Bangladeshi might be subject to it but a majority of this may be caused by other non-white people.Substantiate or fuck off.
In the case of North western England, most racist violence are done by asians against whites.
Oldham is the entire Northwest of England now is it?


That or your reasoning skills arent very good.I'd flame you back, but you'd just go and whine about it in the moderation forum and life's too short to read yet more threads on how somebody said meen fings to you and now you are cryring.

Sorry if this has been said before.

Tony Blair.... doesn't care... about white people

Sorry if this has been said before.

Tony Blair.... doesn't care... about white people

How many levees has Tony Blair built around white neighborhoods?

allers: yes I DON't care
tony blair doesn't care about People period, nevermind just whites.

allers: yes I DON't care
tony blair doesn't care about People period, nevermind just whites.

do you mean this

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11788433&postcount=118 ?

Since whites are the majority, 0.5% of whites is far greater than 6% of Asian groups.

You're not very good at reading statistics, are you?
It doesn't say that 0.5% of the white population is victim of racially motivated crimes, it says that if you are a white person, there's a 0.5% chance of being a victim. For every Asian person the chance is higher.

do you mean this

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11788433&postcount=118 ?

yes

Ehm...

This didn't make the news at the time. That is why.

A person was killed. This is not entirely huge news.

Did you get this off some kind of right-wing site "that was proud not to be politically correct" or something?

Here is the British Crime Survey from which all these statistics are supposedly culled.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/crimeew0506.html
About halfway down the page there are links to the report in pdf format.
There are also links for the statistically minded at the bottom of the page.

maybe because thousands, thousands of black, men, women, and children, had this done to them that was actually way way worse than anything any white person has EVER gone through. Honestly get the fuck over it. Other races get oppresed to the max by white people and when a couple little anti white incedents happen you cry. For shame.

Double whammy. Last night two white guys beat a gay black guy almost to death in my city. It's a bias crime, too.

Well I suppose every time someone is killed, I am going to make a thread about how they were mudered for simply being -insert socially made up group here-. Seriously NN, grow up and get a grip on reality. People are mudered everyday,be enraged over that not over what colour their skin is.

How many levees has Tony Blair built around white neighborhoods?


He just levees taxes on white people...Eisenhower , Kennedy , Johnson , Nixon , Ford , Carter , Bush , Clinton....built the ones you are talking about .

Trust Ny Norland to turn a tragic event into fodder for his White Supremicist Cannon...

Well I suppose every time someone is killed, I am going to make a thread about how they were mudered for simply being -insert socially made up group here-. Seriously NN, grow up and get a grip on reality. People are mudered everyday,be enraged over that not over what colour their skin is.

agree. but still no use getting upset about people being killed, bound to happen (I live in norway with few murders, so I know you can live almost without murders)

I'm not expecting anyone to defend this sort of action here but maybe someone can explain why there is no public outcry? Remember demonstrations in Belgium when one black women was killed. Why isnt Blair condemning it? PM's always condemn this sort of racist killings. Why not much international attention like when a black boy was killed here couple years ago?



http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1478452006


Because (1) the killers were Muslims, (2) the dishonest liberal media don't have the balls to call the killing racially motivated when Muslims are the racially motivated killers, (3) the dishonest liberal media and the left wing of the political spectrum are filled with self-hating whites who are on a permanent guilt trip and are always looking for any excuse to relieve non-white racists of the responsibility for their crimes as long as the victims are white, and (4) Christians in general are entirely too passive and too ready to turn the other cheek. Oh, and did I mention the killers were Muslims?

Among other reasons.

Because (1) the killers were Muslims, (2) the dishonest liberal media don't have the balls to call the killing racially motivated when Muslims are the racially motivated killers, (3) the dishonest liberal media and the left wing of the political spectrum are filled with self-hating whites who are on a permanent guilt trip and are always looking for any excuse to relieve non-white racists of the responsibility for their crimes as long as the victims are white, and (4) Christians in general are entirely too passive and too ready to turn the other cheek. Oh, and did I mention the killers were Muslims?

Among other reasons.

Yes, you did, but oddly enough the article did not. Where, pray tell, does your insight into the religion of the accused some from?

(2) the dishonest liberal media don't have the balls to call the killing racially motivated when Muslims are the racially motivated killers,

That would be why every report described it as a racially motivated murder, as did the Commission for Racial Equality?

Have you crazy kids been smoking the dog crack again?

You, madam, are too emotional. American crime rates (both overall and per capita) are much higher than most maybe all european countries. So it is logical to assume she might be numbER because she is more used to it. Simple reasoning.

The self-righteousness of the keyboard anti-racist agitators and polemicists (or KA-RAPs, for short) on this board is truly a wonder to behold. One can only marvel at their intrepid valor as they denounce the evils of "racism", i.e., disagreement with their world view, and stand in awe as they utter the word of power--RACIST!!!--which, according to legend, has the power to end all debate once spoken.

One thing you'll rarely see, however, is an honest response to the issue at hand. No, they only need to recite those mystic syllables. They don't even need to think while they do so.

The fact is, the incident in question was a racially-motivated crime. Beyond the crime itself, any "racism" lies in denial of this fact. But don't expect the KA-RAPs to acknowledge this anytime soon.

That would be why every report described it as a racially motivated murder, as did the Commission for Racial Equality?

Have you crazy kids been smoking the dog crack again?

See how long it is before the politically correct edit that description. It won't last.

See how long it is before the politically correct edit that description. It won't last.
Yes, the report is only 2 years old now. It'll happen any time now. Yep... any time. Just you watch! It'll be so fast you'll feel the wind of how fast they all rush to change it. Wait for it... it's gonna come soon, mark my words!
:rolleyes:

Tell ya what, when it happens, wake me up and let me know, m'k?

Because (1) the killers were Muslims,
Where in the article does it say that the killers are Muslims?

(2) the dishonest liberal media don't have the balls to call the killing racially motivated when Muslims are the racially motivated killers,
If the killers are not Muslims, who is being dishonest here?

(3) the dishonest liberal media and the left wing of the political spectrum are filled with self-hating whites who are on a permanent guilt trip and are always looking for any excuse to relieve non-white racists of the responsibility for their crimes as long as the victims are white, and
Proof.

(4) Christians in general are entirely too passive and too ready to turn the other cheek. Oh, and did I mention the killers were Muslims?
Oh, and where does it say the killers were Muslims? Ooops?

BTW, are you one of those passive Christians?

Double whammy. Last night two white guys beat a gay black guy almost to death in my city. It's a bias crime, too.

Bastards.

[:rolleyes:]
In the same way the extreme right denounces anything that challenges their vision of brown people being inferior as "Z0MG T3H EBIL LIBREAL MEDIAS!!!!111one!"

Oh, and the "dishonest" liberal media? Guess you haven't noticed the Fox threads around lately...

(2) the dishonest liberal media don't have the balls to call the killing racially motivated when Muslims are the racially motivated killers,

The three accused have denied racially-motivated murder.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/6033503.stm

Okay, we at least appear to have determined that the BBC don't fit into the category of 'dishonest liberal media'.

The self-righteousness of the keyboard anti-racist agitators and polemicists (or KA-RAPs, for short) on this board is truly a wonder to behold. One can only marvel at their intrepid valor as they denounce the evils of "racism", i.e., disagreement with their world view, and stand in awe as they utter the word of power--RACIST!!!--which, according to legend, has the power to end all debate once spoken.

Well it seems to have ended debate on your side, since you're just launching into your typical evil-liberal-race-traitor rant instead of addressing some pertinent points... not that I don't mind seeing a strawman get thoroughly knocked down by upstanding racially-concerned citizens such as yourself.

Where in the article does it say that the killers are Muslims?

It don't say it in that particular article, but elsewhere they are described as being of Pakistani Muslim origins. Make of that what you will.

It don't say it in that particular article, but elsewhere they are described as being of Pakistani Muslim origins. Make of that what you will.
Another article that was linked to this debate?

Besides, unless it was a murder motivated by religious differences, then the religion of the murderer is irrelevant? You don't read in the paper a headline like this:

White Catholic boy murders black Baptist girl?

http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/epics/TOS70.jpg

Well, I should think the difference is plain to see -
I'm Frank Gorshin, and he's white on the right side of his face...

But there are a greater number of racist attacks than there are homophobic attacks, so it's reasonable to conclude that has bearing on this.


Hate crimes arent only homophobic and racist crimes. So not only you are ignorant, you are only assuming that there are more racist attacks than homophobic attacs. Even then, the typical hate crime offender, white male, might be typical with a minor majority. And that majority might not hold true if we only consider racist violent attacks.


Particuarly as they don't say otherwise in that report and you have not provided one iota of evidence to the contrary. Instead prefering to just repeat yourself again and again. You seem to believe that your view is more important than the facts. Frankly, considering the lack of critical faculties you've constantly shown on this thread, I'd consider my five year old nephew to be a more reliable source than you.


Ok I guess. If being delusional helps you deal with your lack of understanding, I dont want to be cruel to you.


So, as a percentage of the population, you accept that whites commit more racially motivated incidents then?


You still dont get it, I see. We only know the risk factors of each group being victim of a racist incident. We dont know who does it. While asian risk factor might be higher, on per capita basis, most of it might be caused by blacks, not whites. I hope I put it simple enough this time, so you can understand.


You don't seriously think that you shouldn't judge the number of incidents in relation to the number of a particular ethnicity in a society, surely? Of course you don't. That would be a completly farcial position to take.


*sigh*. I do think that. It's just you dont understand. You seem to keep not getting that it's quite clear that minorities are overrepresented in crime statistics as the perpetrator of racist incidents. Around 90% of Britain is white. And 0.5% of the whites are in risk of being victim of a racist incident. Now, all minorities need to be overreprsented as the perpetrator of racist incidents, to reach this number, especially relative to the number that is needed for whites to be the perpetrator of racist incidents against all other minorities. And you can even use the highest minority risk, pakistani and bangledeshi to calculate this, while in fact other minorities have lower risks.


Substantiate or fuck off.


You should have fucked off at the first place when you were thinking that it was whites who were responsible for all racist attacks against minorities. You ignored the inter-minority attacks. That wasnt the silliest conclusion you had reached though, there were many.


Oldham is the entire Northwest of England now is it?


No but the situation is smilar in places like Oldham.


I'd flame you back, but you'd just go and whine about it in the moderation forum and life's too short to read yet more threads on how somebody said meen fings to you and now you are cryring.

Okie Dokie...

You're not very good at reading statistics, are you?
It doesn't say that 0.5% of the white population is victim of racially motivated crimes, it says that if you are a white person, there's a 0.5% chance of being a victim. For every Asian person the chance is higher.

I'm amazed that you were unable to understand that risk factors should be directly proportional with actual numbers. Were you assuming they just wrote random numbers?

*yawn*

He's still peddling this rubbish

In the case of North western England, most racist violence are done by asians against whites.No. The article states that most 'racial incidents' are done by Asians against Whites. The validity of the Oldham Police Chief's statements aside, 'racial incidents' does not necessarily mean 'racist violence.'

No. The article states that most 'racial incidents' are done by Asians against Whites. The validity of the Oldham Police Chief's statements aside, 'racial incidents' does not necessarily mean 'racist violence.'

:rolleyes: x 100


Oldham's police chief has said Asian youths are responsible for more than half the racist attacks in the town.


Now move along....

:rolleyes: x 100

Now move along....The article then proceeds to give instances of attacks by Asians against Whites. It does not state that these attacks were racially motivated. The point stands.

Hate crimes arent only homophobic and racist crimes. So not only you are ignorant, you are only assuming that there are more racist attacks than homophobic attacs. Even then, the typical hate crime offender, white male, might be typical with a minor majority. And that majority might not hold true if we only consider racist violent attacks.Provide some evidence to the contrary then. I bet you don't though.

Ok I guess. If being delusional helps you deal with your lack of understanding, I dont want to be cruel to you.No, help me with my lack of understanding Ny! I want you to save me. Show me some facts of where I've got it wrong.



You still dont get it, I see. We only know the risk factors of each group being victim of a racist incident. We dont know who does it. While asian risk factor might be higher, on per capita basis, most of it might be caused by blacks, not whites. I hope I put it simple enough this time, so you can understand. WIthout evidence, your view is entirely irrelevant.



*sigh*. I do think that. It's just you dont understand. You seem to keep not getting that it's quite clear that minorities are overrepresented in crime statistics as the perpetrator of racist incidents. Around 90% of Britain is white. And 0.5% of the whites are in risk of being victim of a racist incident. Now, all minorities need to be overreprsented as the perpetrator of racist incidents, to reach this number, especially relative to the number that is needed for whites to be the perpetrator of racist incidents against all other minorities. And you can even use the highest minority risk, pakistani and bangledeshi to calculate this, while in fact other minorities have lower risks.No. As a percentage of the overall population, ethnic miniorities are more at risk of a racist incident than whites are. Anything else is just a smokescreen.



You should have fucked off at the first place when you were thinking that it was whites who were responsible for all racist attacks against minorities. You ignored the inter-minority attacks. That wasnt the silliest conclusion you had reached though, there were many.
Where did I say that it was only whites? Show me the direct quote. If you don't, I think it's valid to say you're lying here.


No but the situation is smilar in places like Oldham.Substantiate or fuck off.

Because what you actually said was

In the case of North western England, most racist violence are done by asians against whites.

whereas you know have admitted that you are only going on the statistics from Oldham. Once again, you're lying to suit your political agenda. I repeat an earlier question. What differences are there between your position and that of the BNP?

In the same way the extreme right denounces anything that challenges their vision of brown people being inferior as "Z0MG T3H EBIL LIBREAL MEDIAS!!!!111one!"

Don't they teach spelling any more?

Oh, and the "dishonest" liberal media? Guess you haven't noticed the Fox threads around lately...

Fox is one of the few alternatives to the DLM, along with talk radio (other than Air America, which has crashed and burned). Maybe that's one reason why they attract more viewers than the Clinton News Network and PMS-NBC combined. The fact remains that the New York Democrat Times, the Los Angeles Democrat Times, the Washington Compost, the Minneapolis Far Left Tribune, etc. etc., just to name US DLM outlets, as well as CBSNBCABC, far outnumber conservative or moderate publications and networks.

Don't they teach spelling any more?



Fox is one of the few alternatives to the DLM, along with talk radio (other than Air America, which has crashed and burned). Maybe that's one reason why they attract more viewers than the Clinton News Network and PMS-NBC combined. The fact remains that the New York Democrat Times, the Los Angeles Democrat Times, the Washington Compost, the Minneapolis Far Left Tribune, etc. etc., just to name US DLM outlets, as well as CBSNBCABC, far outnumber conservative or moderate publications and networks.

Do you actually find those horrible name changes funny? I mean come on its as stupid as calling it faux and even less witty

Fox is one of the few alternatives to the DLM, along with talk radio (other than Air America, which has crashed and burned). Maybe that's one reason why they attract more viewers than the Clinton News Network and PMS-NBC combined. The fact remains that the New York Democrat Times, the Los Angeles Democrat Times, the Washington Compost, the Minneapolis Far Left Tribune, etc. etc., just to name US DLM outlets, as well as CBSNBCABC, far outnumber conservative or moderate publications and networks.Have you considered Stormfront Radio?

It might be right up your street.

Fox is one of the few alternatives to the DLM, along with talk radio (other than Air America, which has crashed and burned). Maybe that's one reason why they attract more viewers than the Clinton News Network and PMS-NBC combined. The fact remains that the New York Democrat Times, the Los Angeles Democrat Times, the Washington Compost, the Minneapolis Far Left Tribune, etc. etc., just to name US DLM outlets, as well as CBSNBCABC, far outnumber conservative or moderate publications and networks.Oh, bugger. Fox an alternative. Technically true, but not an alternative news source.

To reply to the OP as to why a big deal was not made of this racist attack.

Because then a big deal would have to have been made for this one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/6032025.stm
Two badly hurt in 'racist' attack
An Asian man is seriously ill in hospital after a suspected racist attack in Leicester.

And this one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/5415478.stm
The woman was attacked in Liverpool by a man shouting racist abuse, the day after the former foreign secretary criticised veils that cover the face.

And this one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4802053.stm
Windows were smashed and fireworks set off at three houses in Drumard Drive occupied by Lithuanians just before 0100 BST on Sunday

And this one:
http://www.citybeat967.co.uk/dynamicnewsdetail.aspx?article_id=8938
When they arrived they discovered two Asian men had been injured in a suspected racist attack.

The officer was then also attacked and taken to hospital, but his injuries are not thought to be life-threatening.

And this one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/6032701.stm
Eight people have now been arrested in connection with violence at a Berkshire dairy owned by a Muslim family.

And this one:
http://iccroydon.icnetwork.co.uk/news/sutton/tm_objectid=17862422&method=full&siteid=53340&headline=shopkeeper-s-car-set-alight-name_page.html
HOOLIGANS who have subjected Asian shopkeepers to a six-year reign of terror fire-bombed their car in front of police.

And this one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/5405722.stm
The Scottish FA is to investigate claims that Airdrie supporters taunted a black player by wearing Ku Klux Klan hats during a game at Gretna.

And this one:
http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=55&ArticleID=1800484
Gangs of white youths threw stones at a mosque and an Asian boy was stabbed in "racially motivated" street violence, police have said.


Please note that all these incidents occurred in the UK with the month of October. They are all racist incidents.

This has been explained here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11787381&postcount=46

I see that you still cant read. And again, I was right thinking you were flattering yourself way too much on the reading comprehension issue.

Aside from the inherent problems of the data collection methods used by the BCS, the wording of the page you are quoting is '0.5% or less for white groups'. Now this could mean either all the white groups have a risk factor of about 0.5% or that one of them does and the rest have lower. Until you can come up with data that shows the figures for the number of whites subject to racially motivated crime in the UK I still say you are sidestepping the question.

NB these mild flames are becoming quite tiresome, stop it.

I just think NY is shocked by the article because, being a white douchebag racist, he is angered and saddened that a member of the races he views as inferior can be more of a douchebag and more racist than he is, thus surpassing him in the only two of the three areas he's good at.

Hopefully no brownie joins Nation States in the near future and starts posting about the White Devils on a daily basis, lest he be surpassed in the only area in which he remains uncontested.

Title is misleading. He was murdered because he was white, not for being white.