NationStates Jolt Archive

OK guys, here's the deal:

My grandad had to change his name when he came to the UK; he removed the preceding " O' " to make us sound less Irish.

I'm thinking: should I change my name back to its original form? It seems to be an affirmation of/surrender to oppression and prejudice if I leave it as it is.

Poll follows.

You should be proud to be Irish. But the O' in it.

You know, my family last name used to be diffrent before my great (maybe one more great) grandfather came here in the 1900's. It used to be Zummer. We were from Germany. I thought about changing my last name back to Zummer.

which ever one sounds better. I want to become Djorb Kvintol. Because it sounds good

Put the O'!

Which is better:

Mike Rielly

or

Mike O'Rielly?




The answer is obvious...

which ever one sounds better. I want to become Djorb Kvintol. Because it sounds good

I want to be Mohammed Ahmed al-Hassan because it sounds good, but I dont think its going to happen.

what was the surname before? if it sounds better with the O' then why not? otherwise it's a fairly meaningless gesture.

I want to be Mohammed Ahmed al-Hassan because it sounds good, but I dont think its going to happen.

you can get your name changed or ask your friends to call you Mohammed

Put the O'!

Which is better:

Mike Rielly

or

Mike O'Rielly?




The answer is obvious...

O RLY?

what was the surname before? if it sounds better with the O' then why not? otherwise it's a fairly meaningless gesture.
I agree; adding the "O'" would be silly if it made the name clumsier to say...

Put the O'!

Which is better:

Mike Rielly

or

Mike O'Rielly?




The answer is obvious...

Using that surname isn't fair!

This reminds me of the story my family has with our traditional first name. My great-grandfather, my grandfather, my dad, and I all have the same first name, but the spelling varries. My great-grandfather was Karl and that was my grandfathers name at first as well, however when he was in the navy in the Pacific during WWII he was made to change it after recieving a letter from his mother, who was from Austria. She wasn't able to write in English so she wrote the letter in German. Needless to say the Navy censurs did not respond well to this and my grandfather got in a little bit of trouble as a result, well after working out that he was not a german spy, they made him change it from the german spelling to the moe "American" spelling of "Carl." Than when my dad was born shortly after the war he was also named "Carl" the reason I've heard being that there were still some anti-german sentements around. However, by the time I was born such feelings had long since disipated and they went back to the original spelling.

So basicly what I'm getting at is that you should just go with what ever spelling you want.

I don't know. O'Saxnot sounds a little sexual apathic... ;):p

If you feel your name was changed for the wrong reasons, sure, change it back. Whatever floats your boat!

change it back! And spell it Ó like in the original Irish.

OK guys, here's the deal:

My grandad had to change his name when he came to the UK; he removed the preceding " O' " to make us sound less Irish.

I'm thinking: should I change my name back to its original form? It seems to be an affirmation of/surrender to oppression and prejudice if I leave it as it is.

Poll follows.

I think that as long as you're changing your name, you should do something creative.

Give yourself a name everybody will want to say. Like 'PizzaPussySantaChocolate'. Because everyone likes one of those things. :)

paraphrase of a Dave Attel joke

I say if you're proud of your Irish heritage, put the O back in! My family kept the "Mc" when they came over to the states, but my dad keeps talking about dropping it and Anglicising it. I think this is a terrible idea (largely due to the fact that my last name would sound silly without the "Mc") and I know that it partially also has ties with my dad's lack of pride in our Irish heritage. It is tempting to go back to the Irish spelling (by that I mean not just adding the O back in, but going for the full Gaelic spelling), and I think for some people that's awesome, while for others it's not so desirable.

I say do what makes *you* happy.

why bother its too much hassle IMHO

It is tempting to go back to the Irish spelling (by that I mean not just adding the O back in, but going for the full Gaelic spelling),

That always looks silly.

That always looks silly.

I did say (in the rest of the sentence that you chose not to quote) that it wasn't something everyone liked/wanted to do.

Would I go back to the Irish version of my name? Quite possibly, but there aren't really any fadas in the Irish spelling of my last name.

Am I saying all Irish descendants should use the Irish spelling of their name? Not at all. Quite the opposite, actually. I'm saying they should do what makes *them* happy.

my ancestors came to America and changed thier name from O'fannin to Fanning.... so stupid

I guess they had to do what they felt like was right at the time.

I did say (in the rest of the sentence that you chose not to quote) that it wasn't something everyone liked/wanted to do.

Would I go back to the Irish version of my name? Quite possibly, but there aren't really any fadas in the Irish spelling of my last name.

Am I saying all Irish descendants should use the Irish spelling of their name? Not at all. Quite the opposite, actually. I'm saying they should do what makes *them* happy.

Yea, but whether or not the person wants to do it, and whether or not it makes a nice translation, it always just seems that one of the following is true:
a) if the person is from the US they are on some desperate attempt to reaffirm their "Irishness" (which is non-existent, anyway)
b) if the person is from the Republic, but not from the Gaeltacht, they are harking back to a long dead language in an attempt to appear different, or cool.
c) if the person is from here, that they are trying to make a political statement and reaffirm their Republican or Nationalist credibility.

my ancestors came to America and changed thier name from O'fannin to Fanning.... so stupid

I guess they had to do what they felt like was right at the time.

Depending on when they came, they very well might have had to change it if they wanted anyone to heir them.

Yea, but whether or not the person wants to do it, and whether or not it makes a nice translation, it always just seems that one of the following is true:
a) if the person is from the US they are on some desperate attempt to reaffirm their "Irishness" (which is non-existent, anyway)
b) if the person is from the Republic, but not from the Gaeltacht, they are harking back to a long dead language in an attempt to appear different, or cool.
c) if the person is from here, that they are trying to make a political statement and reaffirm their Republican or Nationalist credibility.

First - Irish is not a dead language, on the brink, yes, but not dead.

Second - are you suggesting that any immigrant to the United States (and their subsequent decendents) lose any right to claim a cultural/national heritage other than American/the United States?

Second - are you suggesting that any immigrant to the United States (and their subsequent decendents) lose any right to claim a cultural/national heritage other than American/the United States?

All I'm saying is that if you weren't born in Ireland (north or south), you didn't grow up or haven't lived in Ireland, and (in many cases) you haven't even been to Ireland, then you aren't Irish under any definition.

All I'm saying is that if you weren't born in Ireland (north or south), you didn't grow up or haven't lived in Ireland, and (in many cases) you haven't even been to Ireland, then you aren't Irish under any definition.


from dictionary.com

I‧rish  /ˈaɪrɪʃ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ahy-rish] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of Ireland, its inhabitants, or their language.
–noun 2. the inhabitants of Ireland and their descendants elsewhere.
3. the aboriginal Celtic-speaking people of Ireland.
4. Also called Irish Gaelic. the Celtic language of Ireland in its historical or modern form. Abbreviation: Ir, Ir. Compare Middle Irish, Old Irish.

sure seems like everyone involved in the Irish diaspora counts as "Irish" under definition number 2.

Are you suggesting, then, that people who were not born in China, but are of Chinese descent, cannot claim to be Chinese? That members of the African diaspora cannot claim to be African? etc etc ad nauseum?

We were not all "fortunate" enough to have been born in our ancestral homelands or to the place with which we feel the most connection and affinity. Are we to be shunned by those who did have the fortune (good or bad) to be born there because of a chance of birth? I would hope not.

And for what it's worth (if anything), I have been to Ireland. Please just keep in mind that it's a hell of a lot more expensive to get to Ireland from South America, North America, or Australia (the places with the highest concentration of Irish Diaspora settlers) than it is to get to Ireland from the UK, or anywhere else in Europe.

from dictionary.com

I‧rish  /ˈaɪrɪʃ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ahy-rish] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of Ireland, its inhabitants, or their language.
–noun 2. the inhabitants of Ireland and their descendants elsewhere.
3. the aboriginal Celtic-speaking people of Ireland.
4. Also called Irish Gaelic. the Celtic language of Ireland in its historical or modern form. Abbreviation: Ir, Ir. Compare Middle Irish, Old Irish.

sure seems like everyone involved in the Irish diaspora counts as "Irish" under definition number 2.

I honestly couldn't care less what a dictionary says.

Are you suggesting, then, that people who were not born in China, but are of Chinese descent, cannot claim to be Chinese? That members of the African diaspora cannot claim to be African? etc etc ad nauseum?

I don't see how they possibly could be, if they are neither from there or have lived there.

My mum was born in England. In Liverpool. She lived there for a year before moving over here.

Does this mean I can claim to be English?

We were not all "fortunate" enough to have been born in our ancestral homelands or to the place with which we feel the most connection and affinity. Are we to be shunned by those who did have the fortune (good or bad) to be born there because of a chance of birth? I would hope not.

Whether you hope it or not, that's the reality of the situation. Maybe "shunned" is too strong a word, but if you turn up in Ireland telling everyone how Irish you are because one of your ancestors was from here...you'll be, at best, met with a look of mild bemusement.

O RLY?

RLY.

RLY.

No WAI!

What on earth for?

My last name would be spelt with an "ß" and an "ä" in it. I changed that for everyday use, as it is virually impossible to explain those to letters to anyone who doesn't speak German.
When I asked how much it would cost me to have it officially changed, and decided it's not worth 150 Euros. And that's just the spelling, not the name itself....

Meh!

Names change all the time.

My Granddad did the same thing. He was a Pole. Family legond says it was due to accidentally killing somebody with mob links. Doubtful.

Some said he wanted to sound less Polish. Doubtful since he moved the family to an area that had many Poles.

I don't see the need to revert the name back to the original name.

Unless, there is some is something amazing about the name, does it really matter? Are you more Irish?

But hey if it floats your boat then what the heck.

I honestly couldn't care less what a dictionary says.



I don't see how they possibly could be, if they are neither from there or have lived there.

My mum was born in England. In Liverpool. She lived there for a year before moving over here.

Does this mean I can claim to be English?

Whether you hope it or not, that's the reality of the situation. Maybe "shunned" is too strong a word, but if you turn up in Ireland telling everyone how Irish you are because one of your ancestors was from here...you'll be, at best, met with a look of mild bemusement.


Bemusement? If you're lucky. There are very few things that seem to annoy people in Ireland more than USAmericans, Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders coming over to proclaim that they, too, are Irish.
They've never before seen the place, their ideas of Irish culture are clearly shaped by Michael Flatley, Guinness commercials and occasionally Frank McCourt.
I only started to understand their annoyance once I met a little troll on here who claimed to be German. He's an Australian national, never had been to Germany and doesn't even speak the language. There are people from Turkey living in Germany who're more German than he is, yet he keeps trying to pass himself off as German.

Nationality is not decided by gentics only. Being of German, Irish, English, French, Ndebele heritage does not equate to being German, Irish, English, French or Ndebele. There's a huge difference there.

OK guys, here's the deal:

My grandad had to change his name when he came to the UK; he removed the preceding " O' " to make us sound less Irish.

I'm thinking: should I change my name back to its original form? It seems to be an affirmation of/surrender to oppression and prejudice if I leave it as it is.

Poll follows.

Make your grandda proud and take up the real family name!!
I say you take up the O'!!

Bemusement? If you're lucky. There are very few things that seem to annoy people in Ireland more than USAmericans, Canadians,


Aren't they just Americans? ;)

Australians and New Zealanders coming over to proclaim that they, too, are Irish.
They've never before seen the place, their ideas of Irish culture are clearly shaped by Michael Flatley, Guinness commercials and occasionally Frank McCourt.


I've been there. Does that count? One side of the family is Scot so I can't claim Irish(well that we know of) :p

So there is no truth to a comment I once saw:

"Then came the Irish who didn't know what they wanted but were willing to fight for it anyway."

So does that mean Aussies don't drink fosters and have shimp on the barby? :D

I only started to understand their annoyance once I met a little troll on here who claimed to be German. He's an Australian national, never had been to Germany and doesn't even speak the language. There are people from Turkey living in Germany who're more German than he is, yet he keeps trying to pass himself off as German.


That's not Neu is it?


Nationality is not decided by gentics only. Being of German, Irish, English, French, Ndebele heritage does not equate to being German, Irish, English, French or Ndebele. There's a huge difference there.

Aren't they just Americans? ;)


I've been there. Does that count? One side of the family is Scot so I can't claim Irish(well that we know of) :p

So there is no truth to a comment I once saw:

"Then came the Irish who didn't know what they wanted but were willing to fight for it anyway."

So does that mean Aussies don't drink fosters and have shimp on the barby? :D


No idea, I've never been there. And to be fair to the Irish, I've seen more bar fights in Germany than in Ireland, by far. Then again, most of the fights in Germany would involve at least one US soldier... :D


That's not Neu is it?

No, no, no. He's just as annoyed by the little imposter as I am. ;)

No idea, I've never been there. And to be fair to the Irish, I've seen more bar fights in Germany than in Ireland, by far. Then again, most of the fights in Germany would involve at least one US soldier... :D


Sorry the aussie comment was partially a local joke that annoys them. Ol Croc Dundee had an endless campaign to visit Australia for shimp on the barbe and Fosters.

As to the Irish fighting. I know that as well. They tended to like heading for the pub and drill me for where I was from, famous people, etc.

No, no, no. He's just as annoyed by the little imposter as I am. ;)

Missed him then. Neu is the only German in Australia I know.

So does that mean Aussies don't drink fosters and have shimp on the barby? :D


That's pretty much true. I don't know anyone that drinks Fosters, and "shrimp" doesn't go on the BBQ. :p

Missed him then. Neu is the only German in Australia I know.

Well, see, he isn't German, that's the point ;)

He used to be Kievan-Prussia, and is now The Potatoe Factory...

Nadkor has a point, I see these yanks over here saying "Ohh, I'm Kelly, O'Shea...I'm Irish bla bla bla".

You are not Irish unless you are Irish in Ireland and thats it, Irish Americans, Irish Brits, Irish what ever. People here are sick of listening to you saying that you are Irish...YOU ARE NOT IRISH!!

It's the same deal with the proddy people up north, they are not Irish and they live in Ireland...Right Naddy boy?

I only started to understand their annoyance once I met a little troll on here who claimed to be German. He's an Australian national, never had been to Germany and doesn't even speak the language.

I've been to Germany.

I've been to Germany.

Really? Worked there? Lived there? Gone to school there?

Really? Worked there? Lived there? Gone to school there?

No, I was too young to work, and it was the school holidays.

Why the hell was I brought up in this stupid debate anyway?

No, I was too young to work, and it was the school holidays.

Why the hell was I brought up in this stupid debate anyway?

As an example

It's the same deal with the proddy people up north, they are not Irish and they live in Ireland...Right Naddy boy?

Seriously I'm sick of this whole "real" irish thing between the south and the north. Just another way to try and seperate communities. Some of the "proddy" families you speak of have lived in ireland since the 1600's. How are they any different from other Irish

Seriously I'm sick of this whole "real" irish thing between the south and the north. Just another way to try and seperate communities. Some of the "proddy" families you speak of have lived in ireland since the 1600's. How are they any different from other Irish

Mostly because they themselves consider themselves to be different from other Irish, in my experience.

Mostly because they themselves consider themselves to be different from other Irish, in my experience.

Generalisation (although I know you said mostly). Just because many protestants use the same kind of argument to seperate themselves politically from others doesnt mean they have any less claim to calling themselves Irish legitimately

Seriously I'm sick of this whole "real" irish thing between the south and the north. Just another way to try and seperate communities. Some of the "proddy" families you speak of have lived in ireland since the 1600's. How are they any different from other Irish

They dont claim to be Irish, It's always this Northern Irish, Ulster-Scots, Scottish, English, British thing they claim to be. Make up your bloody mind why dont yah? and what does the "since the 1600's" thing you talk about mean? It just means the British came and settled in the 1600's, your still British for that, what does that prove? You invaded the Irish nation dont want to be part of Ireland and still want to be called Irish?? Think about it.

They dont claim to be Irish, It's always this Northern Irish, Ulster-Scots, Scottish, English, British thing they claim to be. Make up your bloody mind why dont yah? and what does the "since the 1600's" thing you talk about mean? It just means the British came and settled in the 1600's, your still British for that, what does that prove? You invaded the Irish nation dont want to be part of Ireland and still want to be called Irish?? Think about it.

So do you have the same anger towards the Normans as well? or the Vikings?

So do you have the same anger towards the Normans as well? or the Vikings?

hehe Aye, but compared to the Brits they were saints.

hehe Aye, but compared to the Brits they were saints.

Do you actually want a united ireland can I ask?

Do you actually want a united ireland can I ask?

I can't answer for him here, but most Irish I know couldn't really care less about that now. It's not as if the border still meant a lot any more, it's virtually non-existant nowadays.

I can't answer for him here, but most Irish I know couldn't really care less about that now. It's not as if the border still meant a lot any more, it's virtually non-existant nowadays.

I know. I meant more for him personally since he seems very passionate about the whole thing

Do you actually want a united ireland can I ask?

Yes, but only if that is what the people in the north want.

Yes, but only if that is what the people in the north want.

So you would still feel the same about those who dont call themselves specifically Irish but perhaps Ulster Scots, etc if that were to happen?

So you would still feel the same about those who dont call themselves specifically Irish but perhaps Ulster Scots, etc if that were to happen?

As long as the majority of them consider themselves not Irish, it's not very likely to happen, is it?

So you would still feel the same about those who dont call themselves specifically Irish but perhaps Ulster Scots, etc if that were to happen?

Yes, but only towards the Loyalists who are extreme in their views.

What on earth for?

My last name would be spelt with an "ß" and an "ä" in it. I changed that for everyday use, as it is virually impossible to explain those to letters to anyone who doesn't speak German.
When I asked how much it would cost me to have it officially changed, and decided it's not worth 150 Euros. And that's just the spelling, not the name itself....

It's not that hard to explain the letters. ß=ss, ä=a pronounced differently, in a way I should know but don't.
*got a B1 in leaving cert german*

It's not that hard to explain the letters. ß=ss, ä=a pronounced differently, in a way I should know but don't.
*got a B1 in leaving cert german*

You try cashing a cheque with that name on it, and then we'll talk.

You try cashing a cheque with that name on it, and then we'll talk.

Lol, true.
"It's German, I swear!"
"Sure, Germans pronounce "b"s like "s"s. NEXT"

Patrick Hitler FTW!

As long as the majority of them consider themselves not Irish, it's not very likely to happen, is it?

Never said the majority but there may be a significant minority with that view

It's the same deal with the proddy people up north, they are not Irish and they live in Ireland...Right Naddy boy?

Most are too scared of any suggestion that they might be in any way Irish that they'd probably punch you if you raised the idea. Not all are so unreasonable though.

Meh, leave it. What's done is done. Acknowledge and move on.

And my heritage is Irish as well.

Nationality is not decided by gentics only. Being of German, Irish, English, French, Ndebele heritage does not equate to being German, Irish, English, French or Ndebele. There's a huge difference there.


You're absolutely right, there is a huge difference between being Irish, German, English, whatever and having Irish, German, English, or whatever heritage. What I'm referencing (whether I'm doing a good job of communicating it or not) is Irish heritage, not born and raised in Ireland Irishness. I think there's nothing wrong with people celebrating their heritage and having a closeness with their ancestors in that manner.

However, not all Americans are as stereotypical as you are suggesting they are. I sure don't get my ideas of Irish culture from a Guiness commercial. I get it from history books and cultural studies of Ireland more than anything. I also *do* recognize that I am a Texan (I don't really consider myself all that much of an American) born and raised, and when asked, that is what I say though I might add an aside of "with some Irish heritage" when in certain situations/company.

That's just my own personal point of view, everyone is free to disagree as they will.

OK guys, here's the deal:

My grandad had to change his name when he came to the UK; he removed the preceding " O' " to make us sound less Irish.

I'm thinking: should I change my name back to its original form? It seems to be an affirmation of/surrender to oppression and prejudice if I leave it as it is.

Poll follows.

I say put the " O' " back but not because you want to reject Oppression or prejudice. I mean, really, do you talk that way, or would your mates laugh out of the pub if you did? Do it because your original name is cool and because you want to. ;)

Righto, I think that's a fair range of opinion. I've decided, for a variety of reasons, to go ahead with the name-change, provided my grandfather will permit it. (And perhaps even then anyway.)

Righto, I think that's a fair range of opinion. I've decided, for a variety of reasons, to go ahead with the name-change, provided my grandfather will permit it. (And perhaps even then anyway.)

May I ask why he had to change it?

May I ask why he had to change it?

So he could get work in England.

Would the here of the irish treason movement (IRA), Paddy O'Sama, sound quite the same without the O?

Would the here of the irish treason movement (IRA), Paddy O'Sama, sound quite the same without the O?

I dont quite see your point as it relates to this thread........or even in general

I dont quite see your point as it relates to this thread........or even in general

His question is that would "Paddy O'Sama" sould the same without the O?

It's completely relevant to the thread.

His question is that would "Paddy O'Sama" sould the same without the O?

It's completely relevant to the thread.

Oh, OK?

Oh, OK?

Well, when you consider that this thread is originally about whether or not the OP should reinstate the "O'" in his name, I don't see how it can't be relevant.

Would the here of the irish treason movement (IRA), Paddy O'Sama, sound quite the same without the O?

hehehehehe

snip

It depends whether or not it means more to you than just a letter in your name. As you probably know, there would be a particular and intriguing history attached to your name- and if it helps form part of who you are (or who you feel you want to be) then by all means.

I have been more and more inclined to put the 'de' back into my family/clan name when using my signature as nod to my heritage.

One should nver be ashamed of their heritage and where they come from.

Most are too scared of any suggestion that they might be in any way Irish that they'd probably punch you if you raised the idea. Not all are so unreasonable though.

The thing with the protestants in the north is that they are hypocrites and their paras are beyond brainless, this is a well known fact even amongst the loyalists. They even fight each other now.

What are they??

The thing with the protestants in the north is that they are hypocrites and their paras are beyond brainless, this is a well known fact even amongst the loyalists. They even fight each other now.

What are they??

I'm going to pretend this makes any sense, and just answer with "er....yea".

Fewer syllables is better.

Arrrrggggghhhhhh!

Fewer syllables is better.

Arrrrggggghhhhhh!
Johann Gambolputty de von
Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crasscrenbon-fried-digger-dingle-dangle-
dongle-dungle-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz-
ticolensic-grander-knotty-spelltinkle-grandlich-grumblemeyer-
spelterwasser-kurstlich-himbleeisen-bahnwagen-gutenabend-bitte-ein-
nurnburger-bratwustle-gernspurten-mitz-weimache-luber-hundsfut-
gumberaber-shonedanker-kalbsfleisch-mittler-aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm

Stick it!