NationStates Jolt Archive

...As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly ninety-nine percent of the test subjects accepted the program provided they were given a choice - even if they were only aware of it at a near-unconscious level. While this solution worked, it was fundamentally flawed, creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that, if left unchecked, might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those who refused the program, while a minority, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster...

Humans make choices all the time, what to eat, what to wear, who to date etc. However, there are a whole 'nother level of choice going on at the near subconcious level. Choices that we aren't even aware of. What are these choices, why aren't we aware of them, and do we really make the choice ourselfs, or does a part of our mind act on it's own and make the choices for us?

What are these choices, why aren't we aware of them, and do we really make the choice ourselfs, or does a part of our mind act on it's own and make the choices for us?

Welcome to determinism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism). Ruining people's weekends for over two thousand years.

Welcome to determinism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism). Ruining people's weekends for over two thousand years.

It doesn't ruin my weekends...

Free will/choice is in all likelihood a persistent (and convincing) illusion generated by the ridiculously complex tangle of neurons called the human brain. The fact that it's all a mirage shouldn't really bother anyone though, you may as well "choose" to continue to live as if you do have free choice...cause it won't matter anyways, and if that makes you happier, go for it.

Freud would say that our id and Ego are always making choices for us in the submerged portion of our mind.

When I look at someone, the facial recognition section of my brain chooses which identity it thinks goes with that face...

When I look at someone, the facial recognition section of my brain chooses which identity it thinks goes with that face...

Yea, but is it really a subconcious choice, or more of an automatic response?

I chose the outcomes of all of your lives.





APPEASE ME!

The thing is, we are our "id" our "ego" our neurons, our chemical mass, there is nothing seperate. So the whole "do we choose or do our brains choose" is bu;;shit, as we are our brains. Respek

The thing is, we are our "id" our "ego" our neurons, our chemical mass, there is nothing seperate. So the whole "do we choose or do our brains choose" is bu;;shit, as we are our brains. Respek

w00t!

Yea, but is it really a subconcious choice, or more of an automatic response?

Automatic responce comes from the principles and presmises we either accept or reject. So it all comes back to you.

Respek

i do what the alphabits i ate the day before spell out in the toilet.

Yea, but is it really a subconcious choice, or more of an automatic response?

More importantly, are subconscious choices and automatic responses different?

w00t!

Right back at ya.

Mad ups to self

More importantly, are subconscious choices and automatic responses different?

Hmmm, well wouldn't we be more aware of automatic response than we would be of subconsicous choice?

Humans make choices all the time, what to eat, what to wear, who to date etc. However, there are a whole 'nother level of choice going on at the near subconcious level. Choices that we aren't even aware of. What are these choices, why aren't we aware of them, and do we really make the choice ourselfs, or does a part of our mind act on it's own and make the choices for us?

i wish i knew what you were talking about. then i might be fascinated.

pro-choice vs pro-life

pro-choice vs pro-life

How about less bias terms?

pro-choice vs anti-abortion?

How about less bias terms?

pro-choice vs anti-abortion?
Those choices are still biased, leaving one statement in the ridiculously general (pro-choice). On the other hand, the original options weren't biased in either direction by allowing both sides to utilize the propogandist names they chose for themselves.
And the problem isn't choice; the problem is, improper placement of commas.

Determinism is the philosophical proposition that every event, including human cognition and action, is causally determined by an unbroken chain of prior occurrences. No mysterious miracles or wholly random events occur.
Quantum physics says otherwise.

Yo fiddles where have ya been ??? We missed your wit and wisdom...:D

Those choices are still biased, leaving one statement in the ridiculously general (pro-choice). On the other hand, the original options weren't biased in either direction by allowing both sides to utilize the propogandist names they chose for themselves.
And the problem isn't choice; the problem is, improper placement of commas.

At least the names are direct. "Pro-life" means nothing at all to me.

At least the names are direct. "Pro-life" means nothing at all to me.
And "Pro-Choice" does?
Really, what kind of choice? The choice between Pepsi and Coke? Fine, I'm sure Pat Robertson and Co. have no problem with giving that choice to women. We might even be able to convince Democrats to quit killing them, or at least to take away Teddy's keys.
See debate solved, everyone's got what they want.

And "Pro-Choice" does?
Really, what kind of choice? The choice between Pepsi and Coke? Fine, I'm sure Pat Robertson and Co. have no problem with giving that choice to women. We might even be able to convince Democrats to quit killing them, or at least to take away Teddy's keys.
See debate solved, everyone's got what they want.

WTF? I only said that pro-life means nothing, as noone is anti-life (pro-abortion (mandatory abortions)).

And The Defenderists are pro-choice (similar to UDCP?)

WTF? I only said that pro-life means nothing, as noone is anti-life (pro-abortion (mandatory abortions)).
And people who term themselves "pro-life" are in favor of allowing choices in most scenarios, just not ones involving one's genitalia and immediatly associated biological practices.
And choice isn't even the issue, because even women living in the pre-feminist era had the "choice" to get abortions, they just had to go to outside the realms of safety and legality. What you want is "Abortion Rights", making you "Pro-Abortion-Rights."

Ok ok, hijack over, let's get back to subconcious choice, not the abortion debate.

Quantum physics says otherwise.

I was reading the bit about Quantum Physics in the Determinism article and I couldn't understand whether it was saying that random events do occur, or was it saying that it impossible to predict what will happen?

The cards you are dealt is determinism. How you play them is free will - some Indian guy

The cards you are dealt is determinism. How you play them is free will - some Indian guy

What, what are you saying man? So then you belive that if you enter a cafe the fact that you shall have a hot beverage is determinism, but that it will be coffee and not tea, is free will? Man that's absultly... well correct, what more can I say!;)

'If you could somehow stop all the particles in the universe, and measure exactly where they are, what direction they're moving and how fast they're moving and all that, anbd if you were really really really good at algebra you could write a formula for the future'-Someone or thing that has evacuated from my memory.

What, what are you saying man? So then you belive that if you enter a cafe the fact that you shall have a hot beverage is determinism, but that it will be coffee and not tea, is free will? Man that's absultly... well correct, what more can I say!;)

Actually, it's a reference to what you're born into, and how you lead your life.