NationStates Jolt Archive

The basic manifesto so far:

NO OPPRESSION (NO I.D. CARDS)

LIFE IMPRISONMENT FOR CHILD RAPISTS

CRACKDOWN ON YOBS

MORE DOCTORS, DENTISTS, AND HOSPITALS

BETTER ANIMAL WELFARE

TROOPS BROUGHT BACK

BETTER ENVIRONMENT

IMPROVED SOCIAL SERVICES

MORE SHELTERS FOR RUNAWAY KIDS

IMPROVED N.H.S.

BETTER BUSES AND TRAINS

BETTER SCHOOLS

...more details below:


I.D. CARDS - they can be used for Chinese-style oppression of innocent people. The government will expect you to tell them where you are and where you are going, and why you are going there, amongst other things. If you don't, you will face imprisonment. See http://www.no2id.net/ UNDER THE ABOVE PARTY, THEY WILL NOT BE INTRODUCED
CHILD RAPE - it destroys young lives early. AUTOMATIC LIFE SENTENCE
YOBS - To be given chance to change at first, but persistent yobs to be locked up
HOSPITALS to be re-opened, more incentives for NHS work (doctors and dentists), better appointments system, more doctors and dentists
ANIMAL abusers to face large fine or be locked up (instead of very small fine) and to automatically banned from keeping animals
TROOPS to be brought back from the Middle East
ENVIRONMENT - better energy use, less pollution, serious consideration of energy-friendly systems (such as renewable energy)
SOCIAL WORKERS to be better-trained (with better support for those concerned about a child or children), bad social workers to be fired
RUNAWAY KIDS - more beds for the massive numbers of runaways each year in the UK - 100,000 (there are currently only nine purpose-provided beds - generally runaways have to sleep in an unsafe place, or go into care or foster care when this might not actually be necessary). And don't expect the current government to do this ( this is from 2001: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1235441.stm ). See http://www.the-childrens-society.org.uk/campaign/SG_Feature/42588/46/
Better N.H.S. - better treatment of nurses, more efficient N.H.S., new law to help make N.H.S. workers safer
BUSES/TRAINS - less delays on buses/trains, friendlier service on buses, safer services
SCHOOLS - safer schools, better performance

More dentists shouldnt be the issue. It should be about trying to get more dentists back into the NHS using proper methods rather than just political games. At the moment dental students can claim 4 grand a year if they agree to work in the NHS after graduation.The only problem is that they can pay back the money at any point and get out of the deal. Lots of people take the cash, put it in a high interest account and then pay back the capital at graduation. Seems a lot like the government only use this incentive so they can promise the public more dentists in the NHS even though it wont be a reality

How would you make the NHS more efficient by the way? Its a black hole for cash and always will be

no. less of this, more of that, better the other. maybe if you had an idea of how you're going to do these things and with what resources. i'm not going to take such a manifesto seriously without further elucidation.

NO OPPRESSION (NO I.D. CARDS)I'm not from the UK, but maybe me being from Germany puts a little perspective on this bit: You're not being oppressed if you have mandatory ID cards. I've had one for over six years and the German government currently does not know where I am, or where I'm going tonight.

i think that most of them are good, like the rapist sentence for life. But i think that we shouldn't bring the troops back. I have mates who have served in both Iraq and Afganistan and although they don't really like the war they know tyhat ifd they drop out then Iraq will probably escalate into civil war, possibly dragging in Iran. We've gone to far to bring back the troops.

I would also increase military funding as Britan's forces are WAY overstreached and under-equiped.

HOSPITALS to be re-opened, more incentives for NHS work (doctors and dentists), better appointments system, more doctors and dentists

[/LIST]

You realise that there are currently too many medical students compared to the amount of jobs available. Its meant to be regulated so that that isnt the case but they messed up and it'll take 5 years to fix (or so i'm told).

no. less of this, more of that, better the other. maybe if you had an idea of how you're going to do these things and with what resources. i'm not going to take such a manifesto seriously without further elucidation.
Pretty much exactly my feelings. Which party is this? It's certainly not Labour (ID card policy rules them out) or the Tories (improved NHS rules them out). I'm fairly sure the Lib Dems aren't that tough on 'yobs'. So it's a minority party - my guess is the BNP.

With these policies, it's a possibility that I would vote for the BNP. However, their anti-immigrant/immigration policies stop me from doing so.

And by the way, aren't these -
NO OPPRESSION

CRACKDOWN ON YOBS

a little bit contradictory?

With these policies, it's a possibility that I would vote for the BNP. However, their anti-immigrant/immigration policies stop me from doing so.Of course, if it really is the BNP (which I kind of suspected too), are you sure they'd follow through on their promises or just use them to gather as many people as they can and concentrate on their immigration policy instead?

Of course, if it really is the BNP (which I kind of suspected too), are you sure they'd follow through on their promises or just use them to gather as many people as they can and concentrate on their immigration policy instead?
They wouldn't necessarily concentrate on it too much. I imagine that if they do somehow gain power they'll do it mostly on the quiet - bear in mind that a party can win a general election in this country with 30% of the vote - because there will be riots. Not just violent protests, I mean proper riots.

please, use bold tags, or a (slight) size increase. caps lock makes you look like a n00b.

no. less of this, more of that, better the other. maybe if you had an idea of how you're going to do these things and with what resources. i'm not going to take such a manifesto seriously without further elucidation.

Exactly. "Better schools", "better NHS" "better environment" aren't policies and they're barely ideologies.

Plus, I have issues with the following:

CHILD RAPE - it destroys young lives early. AUTOMATIC LIFE SENTENCE

Any automatic sentencing of this sort is a bad idea, on principle. Courts must have the wiggle room to assess individual cases rather than being forced to pander to tabloid-esque emotional reactions. Yes, we all hate rape of any sort, but sentencing has to be about deterring crime and reducing recidivism while respecting notions of justice, and these ends are best served by giving judges the ability to tailor sentences to the offender and the situation.

CRACKDOWN ON YOBS

More tabloid populism. What, exactly, is a "yob"? Is it someone who physically or verbally threatens other people"? Is it someone who commits assault? Is it a vandal? Then don't condense their offences down to a label like "yob", call them what they are - criminals guilty of harrassment, assault or vandalism. Yobs is a convenient way to lump young people guilty of little more than wearing hooded jumpers and appearing in public in a large group in with real criminals. I'm sorry, but if you find a large group of young people intimidating because you read in the papers that some young people are violent, that's your problem not theirs. They have just as much right as you to congregate in public - though apparently no longer, as police are given the power to disperse groups of young people on the basis of their potential to scare others:

Dispersal Orders for Grahame Park Estate]From Friday March 31st 2006 a dispersal area is being re-introduced to the Grahame Park Estate. The move comes as Police and the Local Authority aim to tackle a minority of people in the area whose anti social behaviour and criminal activity impacts on the quality of life for local residents.

A survey highlighted that anti-social behaviour blighted the lives of local residents and one of the main issues that affected them was groups of people loitering in public places. This power was brought in to tackle ?gangs? whose behaviour over a period of time constituted serious anti-social behaviour through intimidation, vandalism and other forms of unacceptable behaviour, which created a fear of crime within their communities.

The Act will give police new powers to disperse groups of 2 or more

What will the new powers allow police to do?

If a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that the presence of a group of two or more persons in any public place in the relevant locality, where due to the presence or behaviour of one or more in the group, is likely to result or has resulted in any members of the public being intimidated, harassed, alarmed or distressed.

The constable may give one or more of the following directions, namely

A direction requiring the persons in the group to disperse, either immediately or by such time as he may specify and in such way as he may specify.

A direction requiring any of those persons whose place of residence is not within the relevant locality to leave the relevant locality or part of the relevant locality. Either immediately or by such time as he may specify and in such a way as he may specify, and

A direction prohibiting any of those persons whose place of residence is not within the relevant locality from returning to the relevant locality or any part of the relevant locality for such period not exceeding 24 hours from the giving of the direction as he may specify

A person who knowingly contravenes a direction commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine and/or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months

A constable in uniform may arrest without warrant any person he reasonably suspects has committed an offence

I'm not from the UK, but maybe me being from Germany puts a little perspective on this bit: You're not being oppressed if you have mandatory ID cards. I've had one for over six years and the German government currently does not know where I am, or where I'm going tonight.

Your ID card isn't connected with the most comprehensive database of biometric information ever proposed, nor does an electronic swipe of it have to be performed in order for you to carry out any significant financial transaction or to use public services.

While I am not particularly fond of Id cards, they are no worse then passports or driving liscences except that Id cards are used specifically for identification where as it is an alternate use for things like passports.

The basic manifesto so far:...

And where do the funds for these so-called improvements come from, eh?

If you don't mind an American chipping his opinion in, I think they have good ideas. I'd vote for them. :)


And to Bodies without Organs: From the tax payers pockets of course! :rolleyes:

While I am not particularly fond of Id cards, they are no worse then passports or driving liscences except that Id cards are used specifically for identification where as it is an alternate use for things like passports.

The concept of a national identity card scares me, however it already exists: Drivers licenses, Social Security Cards, etc. However, if you're a conspiracy theorist, you'll say those are precursors to a national ID card.


I tend to agree too...

Presuming its the BNP where is the money going to come from for all this when the economy collapses from their isolationist policies?

No, I wouldn't vote for them.

If I promised that I'd give all voters their own pixie slave, it doesn't mean I could actually deliver on it. People need much more than vague ideas to decide whether or not someone should form a government.

LIFE IMPRISONMENT FOR CHILD RAPISTS

So raping someone aged 17 is a better thing than raping someone aged 16?

So raping someone aged 17 is a better thing than raping someone aged 16?

I think he means raping in general....

I think he means raping in general....
There's no rape here. We're civilised, don't you know.

I think he means raping in general....

Then why the unequivocal reference to child rape and the guaranteed sentence for it, but no mention of any change to other current legislation regarding acts of rape and adults?

Not enough explaination of how the things listed would be achieved.

I agree with your opposition to ID cards. However, you mentioned nothing about welfare or pensions, both of which could do with some reforms.

So raping someone aged 17 is a better thing than raping someone aged 16?
No, no. What it means is automatic life sentences for children who are rapists. :p

While I am not particularly fond of Id cards, they are no worse then passports or driving liscences except that Id cards are used specifically for identification where as it is an alternate use for things like passports.

I suggest you actually read up on them. They will first of all require the invasive collection of 49 separate pieces of biometric data on every individual and its consolidation in a central database. Then they must be presented and electronically swiped for all kinds of things, including when you receive prescription drugs, when you withdraw a relatively small amount of money from a bank, check into hospital, get your car unclamped, apply for a fishing licence, set up an internet account, fix a residents' parking permit, apply for a job, get a supermarket loyalty card, or take out insurance. As to what Laerod said about the government not knowing where he's going tonight - the UK government will be able to suss this quite easily for many, many people, as anyone ID'ed when buying alcohol will need to have the card swiped as well.

Every time the card is swiped, it will be noted on a central database which will retain the data as long as the Home Office wants, drawing a comprehensive picture of your life. This information will be open to big corporations, the police, the Inland Revenue, HM Customs, MI5 and any official or commercial busybody that wants access to your life - because the system will be open to private businesses too (hell, they'll probably end up contracting out its administration to some corporation).

The government has also admitted that the high-security measures originally promised are too expensive, and the cards will be equipped with chip-and-pin systems of the sort that has already been compromised by organised criminals. So it will do nothing against terrorism or organised crime, all that remains is the facilitation of total surveillance of the private individual by the state and its corporate buddies.

The inclusion of RFID technology (already in new UK passports) is also worrying. Encryption on our passports is poor and ID cards are unlikely to be much better. The government claims these things can't be read at a distance, but technology is advancing in leaps and bounds - a Dutch security company managed to read and decrypt a Dutch RFID passport from 30 ft in 2 hours, and that's guaranteed to drop with time. So any busybody with the know-how may be able to grab your personal data just by standing near you - be it an identity fraudster eager to steal your details, or a police force gathering a list of all the people attending an anti-government protest (and then cross-referencing their identities against the massive database of all your transactions).

No, i wouldnt vote for this party. Not even if drugged, carried to the voting booth and instructed to put a cross in the box at gunpoint

1. Myopia is right

2. No, it's not the BNP, but I'm not gonna tell ya (yet) which party it is. It's not a racist one though.

2. No, it's not the BNP, but I'm not gonna tell ya (yet) which party it is. It's not a racist one though.

Ok, still doesn't mean I'd vote for them. Two reasons - firstly, there's no detail of how these aims are to be achieved. Secondly, this is not a comprehensive list of aims/policies (and if it is, I sure as fuck won't vote for them) - if they have important policies that I strongly disagree with, then they wouldn't get my vote.

This manifesto lacks almost as much as much substance as the new conservative one

1. Myopia is right

2. No, it's not the BNP, but I'm not gonna tell ya (yet) which party it is. It's not a racist one though.

UKIP? They're a sort of BNP-Lite.

I'm not from the UK, but maybe me being from Germany puts a little perspective on this bit: You're not being oppressed if you have mandatory ID cards. I've had one for over six years and the German government currently does not know where I am, or where I'm going tonight.

Das is vhat you think!

</Kaiser>

Sounds Lib-dem-ish to me...although not exactly.

Automatic life sentences for child rapists is not a good idea - it will almost certainly increase the number of wolf-cries from concerned or maligned parents, reduce the number of male teachers and lecturers, and what if a 15 year old lies about their age and has "consensual" sex with an adult?
As was commented above, each case needs to be considered separately in court.

As for ID cards, I had to do an essay on the implications and concluded that basically they won't do any good, and people will feel that they have less privacy (whether they will or not is another matter)

2. No, it's not the BNP, but I'm not gonna tell ya (yet) which party it is. It's not a racist one though.

I think it's time you told us what party this is. Nobody's posted since yesterday.

Das is vhat you think!

</Kaiser>Apart from there not having been an emperor in Germany since the end of WWI, Germans generally don't know how to pronounce the "th" sound.

Apart from there not having been an emperor in Germany since the end of WWI, Germans generally don't know how to pronounce the "th" sound.

Yeah I know. I thought however that if I had 'zink', or a varient thereof, at the end the sentence would be too incomprehensible.

And as to there not being an emperor, again, das is vhat you zink. :D