NationStates Jolt Archive


How many of you would honestly do this?

Radical Centrists
07-10-2006, 21:29
Link. (http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/10/07/ap3074152.html)

Amish Mourn Gunman in School Rampage
By MARK SCOLFORO , 10.07.2006, 03:28 PM

Dozens of Amish neighbors came out Saturday to mourn the quiet milkman who killed five of their young girls and wounded five more in a brief, unfathomable rampage.

Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, was buried in his wife's family plot behind a small Methodist church, a few miles from the one-room schoolhouse he stormed Monday.

His wife, Marie, and their three small children looked on as Roberts was buried beside the pink, heart-shaped grave of the infant daughter whose death nine years ago apparently haunted him.

About half of perhaps 75 mourners on hand were Amish.

"It's the love, the forgiveness, the heartfelt forgiveness they have toward the family. I broke down and cried seeing it displayed," said Bruce Porter, a fire department chaplain from Morrison, Colo., who had come to Pennsylvania to offer what help he could and attended the burial. He said Marie Roberts was also touched.

"She was absolutely deeply moved, by just the love shown," Porter said.

Leaders of the local Amish community were gathering Saturday afternoon at a firehouse to decide the future of the schoolhouse, and of the school year itself.

The prevailing wisdom suggested a new school would be built.

"There will definitely be a new school built, but not on that property," said Mike Hart, a spokesman for the Bart Fire Company in Georgetown.

Roberts stormed the West Nickel Mines Amish School on Monday, releasing the 15 boys and four adults before tying up and shooting the 10 girls. Roberts, who had come armed with a shotgun, a handgun and a stun gun, then killed himself.

Roberts' suicide notes and last calls with his wife reveal a man tormented by memories - as yet unsubstantiated - of molesting two young relatives 20 years ago. He said he was also angry at God for the Nov. 14, 1997, death of the couple's first child, a girl named Elise Victoria who lived for just 20 minutes.

Hart is one of two non-Amish community members serving on a 10-member board that will decide how to distribute donations that have come in following the global news coverage. One stranger walked into the firehouse Saturday morning and dropped a $100 bill in the collection jar.

The condolences flowing into the Bart Post Office filled three large cartons on Saturday - two for the Amish children and one for the Roberts clan.

"(It's) envelopes, packages, food and a lot of cards," clerk Helena Salerno said.

More than $500,000 has been pledged, some of which is expected to cover medical costs for the five surviving girls. They remain hospitalized, and one is said to be in grave condition.

As the Sabbath Day approached, close friends expected to spend Sunday paying visits to the victims' families.

The funerals for the five slain girls - Marian Fisher, 13; Anna Mae Stoltzfus, 12; Naomi Rose Ebersol, 7, and sisters Mary Liz Miller, 8, and Lena Miller, 7 - were held Thursday and Friday.

One Amish woman, an aunt to the Miller girls, set out Saturday to retrieve some of the flowers dropped near the school and bring them to the families.

She was traveling on an Amish scooter and tried to balance two potted plants before going home and returning for the task with a child's small wagon.

The massacre sent out images to the world not only of the violence, but also of a little-known community that chooses to live an insular, agrarian way of life, shunning cars, electricity and other modern conveniences.

By Saturday, the hordes of satellite trucks and stand-up reporters had mostly left the country roads, and a semblance of routine returned. Early in the morning, Amish farmers hauled farm equipment past the boarded-up school.

"It was just getting to be too much," said Jane Kreider, a 48-year-old teacher's aide in Georgetown. "It was just, 'Get out of dodge, get out of our town and we'll pull together.'"

I must say that I honestly didn't expect this after what happened. Not even from the Amish.

What do you think of this? Could you, or would you even want to, forgive and mourn a person like this?

I'm still not sure if I would...
Farnhamia
07-10-2006, 21:30
Link. (http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/10/07/ap3074152.html)



I must say that I honestly didn't expect this after what happened. Not even from the Amish.

What do you think of this? Could you, or would you even want to, forgive and mourn a person like this?

I'm still not sure if I would...

Yeah, I'm not sure I could, either. Not so soon, anyway.
Linthiopia
07-10-2006, 21:31
I couldn't. Not so soon after the shooting, at least.

I must say, I am impressed.
Drunk commies deleted
07-10-2006, 21:31
I certainly wouldn't mourn the death of such a scumbag. The amish are a very strange people.
Lunatic Goofballs
07-10-2006, 21:31
Impressive, isn't it?
Sheni
07-10-2006, 21:34
Wow...
The Amish have officialy won the title of "Best religion ever".
Not even Buddhism beats that.
Desperate Measures
07-10-2006, 21:37
I would want to. Probably couldn't, though.
Nevered
07-10-2006, 21:38
they seem like the last christians left who take "love thy enemies" seroiusly.
Ifreann
07-10-2006, 21:39
I'd love to say I would. But I doubt it. The Amish pwn everyone when it comes to forgivness.
Lunatic Goofballs
07-10-2006, 21:40
Wow...
The Amish have officialy won the title of "Best religion ever".
Not even Buddhism beats that.

"Best Religion ever" is certainly debatable. But it's nice to see a religious group that practices what they preach with the constancy that the Amish do. It's refreshing.
Arthais101
07-10-2006, 21:40
It is there way...

It takes a special kind of strength to recognize that human life, all human life, even the life that took your children from you...is still human. And if you believe in god then you must believe that all human life carries with it some part of divinity, and that the loss of any life is a reason to mourn.
Militia Enforced State
07-10-2006, 21:45
Wow...just amazing. I wouldn't forgive that quickly too. Supporting the wife, maybe, but not the killer! Man, what nice people. :)
Safalra
07-10-2006, 21:48
What do you think of this? Could you, or would you even want to, forgive and mourn a person like this?
I would, but I'd find it difficult. (See, even atheists can preach forgiveness...) It's always a tradegy when someone sees killing themself while taking many innocents with them as the best option.
German Nightmare
07-10-2006, 21:49
Wow. I'm honestly not sure if I could have the strength to do that.
While I've had a great deal of respect for the Amish - this is really something that puts them in a special place in my heart.

They truely live by their convictions. Great! http://dragon.stack.nl/~nushae/images/tiphat.gif
Texan Hotrodders
07-10-2006, 22:14
Link. (http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/10/07/ap3074152.html)



I must say that I honestly didn't expect this after what happened. Not even from the Amish.

What do you think of this? Could you, or would you even want to, forgive and mourn a person like this?

I'm still not sure if I would...

Yes. I have forgiven folks who have beaten me, the man who abused my mother, the woman who broke my heart, and those who've killed my neighbors.

And this is why I have always admired the Amish and respected the beauty of their lifestyle.
Sheni
07-10-2006, 22:15
"Best Religion ever" is certainly debatable. But it's nice to see a religious group that practices what they preach with the constancy that the Amish do. It's refreshing.

From an outsider's perspective of course.
They happen to have a worse version of the only thing wrong with Buddhism:
People don't like giving up their own greed.
Free Randomers
07-10-2006, 22:21
I would not want to, and could not even if I did.

When I died myself the first thing I'd do in the afterlife is track the bastard down and stoke the fires of whatever hell is burning under him.

That said - I have a lot of respect for the Amish people involved in this. It takes a lot for anyone to do this and their faith must be incredible.
Laerod
07-10-2006, 22:40
I must say that I honestly didn't expect this after what happened. Not even from the Amish.

What do you think of this? Could you, or would you even want to, forgive and mourn a person like this?

I'm still not sure if I would...Pope John Paul II forgave the guy that nearly killed him.

That, and not "God hates fags" is what christianity should be about.
German Nightmare
07-10-2006, 22:51
Pope John Paul II forgave the guy that nearly killed him.

That, and not "God hates fags" is what christianity should be about.
Love and forgiveness is what true Christianity is all about, I might say.
Radical Centrists
07-10-2006, 23:19
Pope John Paul II forgave the guy that nearly killed him.

That, and not "God hates fags" is what christianity should be about.

You see, I could do that. I'm more or less incapable for harboring hatred for anyone simply because I suffer for it more then they ever would. Hating someone, especially a dead man, only empowers that person to hurt you further. I couldn't live with myself if I barely survived something only to waste my life on rage, hate, vengeance, etc... On a different note, I grew up with a domineering, misogynistic, physically, emotionally, and psychologically abusive father and not only have I forgiven him, but one day I'll thank him for teaching me to be a better man. We learn the most about life and about ourselves through the suffering and hardship that we endure, and we learn next to nothing from peace and contentment. There are many different facets to what we see as good and especially evil.

Still, if someone murdered my children it would cross more lines then there are constraints of decency. Most people could easily cite it as truly unforgivable, yet apparently it isn't and it's given me something to think about.
Ashmoria
07-10-2006, 23:25
i certainly couldnt bring flowers to the killer in the hospital if he had survived his crime. i wouldnt read him a novel to pass the time.

i always have great sympathy for the families of killers though. that wife lost her husband. she was facing the worst day of her life alone. no one but her (and other members of their family) mourned the death of her husband. even then she had to deal with the reality of what he did.

i would hope that i could reach out to a person living through such pain. she didnt deserve it any more than the families of the dead girls did.
Tanal
08-10-2006, 00:05
I doubt I would. In Judaism, you are commanded to forgive... AFTER the responsible party has both rectified what he has done, appeased you, and asked for forgiveness.

But seeing them do this, I have great respect for the Amish. Some would turn to vengeance, but they have done just the opposite. G-d bless them.
Neo Undelia
08-10-2006, 00:21
The Amish own.
This shows an ethical character, a willingness to forgive and an appreciation for life, which quite frankly, I find to be incredible.
Deep Kimchi
08-10-2006, 00:28
Link. (http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/10/07/ap3074152.html)

I must say that I honestly didn't expect this after what happened. Not even from the Amish.

What do you think of this? Could you, or would you even want to, forgive and mourn a person like this?

I'm still not sure if I would...

I expected it of the Amish. It's definitely their way.

One of the dead girls asked the gunman to shoot her first, in an attempt to save the lives of the younger girls.
Bitchkitten
08-10-2006, 00:32
There are plenty of things I would not forgive. I don't find forgiveness a must for certain things. I don't forgive the guy who molested me, and feel perfectly fine about it.
Whereyouthinkyougoing
08-10-2006, 00:45
It is there way...

It takes a special kind of strength to recognize that human life, all human life, even the life that took your children from you...is still human.
See, I don't think it takes a "special kind of strength" at all to do that.
Isn't it simply natural to feel that way, to see that even a murderer is still human?
It is for me, and I certainly don't have any "special kind of strength".

I'm also not religious, so this: And if you believe in god then you must believe that all human life carries with it some part of divinity, and that the loss of any life is a reason to mourn. may be true, but it certainly isn't a prerequisite to mourn a "bad" person's death.
IL Ruffino
08-10-2006, 00:46
Impressive, isn't it?

Aye.
JuNii
08-10-2006, 01:11
Link. (http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/10/07/ap3074152.html)



I must say that I honestly didn't expect this after what happened. Not even from the Amish.

What do you think of this? Could you, or would you even want to, forgive and mourn a person like this?

I'm still not sure if I would...

honestly... I would go... but not because of him, but to let his family know I hold no grudge against them.
Slaughterhouse five
08-10-2006, 01:22
I certainly wouldn't mourn the death of such a scumbag. The amish are a very strange people.

its kind of sad that people having good morals and a strong faith is considered strange.

but i agree with you. to us it does seem strange.