NationStates Jolt Archive

Me and a couple accquaintances were discussing this topic. Your opinion?

Dress code for what? School, work, military, prisoners, church, ???? :confused:

ah... school.

Elementary, Middle, high, and/or college.

Im for school uniforms. So, I guess that covers me. Some rather confusing choices in that poll tho.

Am I the only who voted?

I go with the not distracting. Dress codes are always a pain to enforce because it almost always comes down to the kid in question screaming how it's a draconian attack on his/her freedom of speech or expression, or pointing out how "Well the rules didn't SAY I couldn't wear X to school!"

Hmm, rather like reactions of NS posters after Mod actions against them... :D

ah... school.

Elementary, Middle, high, and/or college.

Uniforms for the first three. Decent dress for the latter.

It should really be up to the parents to decide.

And, when the kids are no longer minors, it should be their choice and their choice alone. Feh, they could go to school nude for all I care.

Im for school uniforms. So, I guess that covers me. Some rather confusing choices in that poll tho.
I'm not, they don't really solve the problems I listed in my post.

I say cover the pelvic region for health reasons...

The rest should be able to be shown/hidden as the student desires.

Of course, i speak of the older two schools (high and college).

as for the other two, it would IDEALLY be the same, but reality would dictate more coverage.

Define "distracting" Really I think it depends on the person being "distracted":p

I wouldn't mind uniforms, except allow for the diplay of religious symbols/clothing. I don't think the "right to wear whatever the hell I want" is a very important freedom...

Is it just me that doesn't understand the #5 + xyz or #whatever options?

Is it just me that doesn't understand the #5 + xyz or #whatever options?

Oh, that just means the stipulations of the other one and then some added rules.

I miss my shorts and a t-shirt, so I voted for that.

uniforms!

oh, but not for college, then you should wear business casual to class ;)

Why are so many people against freedom of expression?

t3h h1gh sch00l3r5 g3t 1t t00, y00 kn0.

Why are so many people against freedom of expression?

t3h h1gh sch00l3r5 g3t 1t t00, y00 kn0.
because I am evil.

because I am evil.

It would seem so. :eek:

Eh, all the schools I went to had dress codes and they never had that much of a problem enforcing it, of course they were Catholic schools so the nuns would beat you if you didn't dress right;) Seriously though for grade and middle it was navy blue pants and a school polo shirt, high school was khaki pants and a dark red school polo, only problem was that in HS they wanted a certain brand of pants to be worn, but only one of the teachers really gave a damn about that.

It would seem so. :eek:

you know kids can express their fashion away from school....

you guys do go home at one point right?

I mean I wear different clothes to work than I do at home and even different clothes at home than I do when I am out running errands.

uniforms!

oh, but not for college, then you should wear business casual to class ;)

Hah, I bet you'd expect us to bath too you facist;)

I have a problem with most uniforms. Mostly white shirts aren't good for rain (I love going outside in the rain but I don't like see-through shirts as much) and I'm not going to wear a skirt. Also I'd like to be able to pick out uniforms to make sure that they weren't made in sweatshops. I prefer hemp shirts because anything with >90% cotton tends to irritate me and apperently they're btter for the enviroment. Other then that uniforms would just be an inconvience that I wouldn't mind but something tells me that I would run into problems with that.

I have a problem with most uniforms. Mostly white shirts aren't good for rain (I love going outside in the rain but I don't like see-through shirts as much) and I'm not going to wear a skirt. Also I'd like to be able to pick out uniforms to make sure that they weren't made in sweatshops. I prefer hemp shirts because anything with >90% cotton tends to irritate me and apperently they're btter for the enviroment. Other then that uniforms would just be an inconvience that I wouldn't mind but something tells me that I would run into problems with that.

I don't know if I would agree that it's an inconvience, it does save you from worry about what your going to be wearing.

I believe everyone should wear dresses.
Just to be fair ;)

I believe everyone should wear dresses.
Just to be fair ;)

Not a problem for 52% of the population :p

They have "uniforms" where I live and it is a joke.
Blue, Black, or Khaki pants, and Polo or dress shirt in blue, white,school's choice of colors or Tshirt with school logo. Pants can be dress, or casual, or denim. And they call this a uniform?

Let them dress as they want within reason,(at least street legal) but if revealing don't complain if someone looks.

Shouldn't be a problem for the other 48% either.
Down with the patriarchy! :D
eta: oops! forgot to quote Nadkor's post above LOL

I don't know if I would agree that it's an inconvience, it does save you from worry about what your going to be wearing.

I don't really worry about what I'm going to wear I'd just mean that I'd have to bring extra clothes if I wanted to do something after school and since I already have to carry textbooks it would mean an extra bad along side my backpack. And then then the worry about was it made in a sweatshop ah, this [insert article of clothing] is itchy... yeah. I don't really think there is a reason to have uniforms but most of the reasons people give why they should have uniforms aren't very good either.

Let them dress as they want within reason,(at least street legal) but if revealing don't complain if someone looks.

Agreed. Although some uniforms are pretty sexy. (on those who are over 16 of course) :cool:

Agreed. Although some uniforms are pretty sexy. (on those who are over 16 of course) :cool:

(again for those of a resonable age)

But what about going topless? Hmm...

I wonder why many frown upon women topless in public (well, you know, in an asexual manner).

As long as the naughty places are covered and no clothing advertising tobacco/alcohol (it being illegal for them after all).

(again for those of a resonable age)

But what about going topless? Hmm...

I wonder why many frown upon women topless in public (well, you know, in an asexual manner).

I wouldn't frown I would smile! :D

I wouldn't frown I would smile! :D

Amen!


(Of course, the pelvic regions have too stay covered... don't want LITERAL crap on bus seats, etc.)

Ideally, I would call for no restrictions at all. Realistically, I'll have to admit that conservative Americans' squeamishness towards sex and sexual references probably makes requiring underwear a necessity during this day and age, and I probably won't get too riled up as long as I don't see true uniforms (specific outfit required, especially if a specific brand is involved; I prefer to think of "uniforms" that only dictate color scheme as being restrictive dress codes instead) being required.

They have "uniforms" where I live and it is a joke.
Blue, Black, or Khaki pants, and Polo or dress shirt in blue, white,school's choice of colors or Tshirt with school logo. Pants can be dress, or casual, or denim. And they call this a uniform?

This is a good example of a "uniform" that I would refer to as a "restrictive dress code" instead. "Uniforms" that specify clothes type but not a specific color (e.g, blouses/dresses for girls and buttoned shirts/dress pants for guys, with a choice of colors) are a harder call, however; I'm inclined to call them uniforms (and thus start speaking out more strongly), but I'd have to think about it more before making a final conclusion.

The primary purpose and duty of the head of a school is to provide the best environment in which to educate the maximum number of students while allowing the fewest number to be killed or harmed on school property. While it is true that most people do learn their very important social skills at school, the head of a school is not be much charged with providing the best environment for this aspect of learning. Providing an atmosphere in hich a student might experiment with her social skills is important, but it is of secondary importance to both safety and to acedemics.

So in light of the above, if I was the head of a school I would not have a dress code unless and until the choice of clothing became a safety issue or became a hindrance to "book learnin". An example of safety might be if opposing gangs wore "colors" to identify themselves and attacked eachother on sight of the "colors" An example of a hindrance might be if it the latest trend was for ladies to wear Carmen Miranda hats and gents to wear huge sombreros so that only the front row of a classroom might see the instructor.

Having said that I wouldnt have more dress code than absolutely needed I would also not stop short of whatever dress code provided the safest and best environment for learning. If the situation was so bad that I needed to go full conformist uniform in order to provide a safe environment then there would be uniforms at the start of the next semester. A student's right to freedom of expression via fashion stops right where it crosses the rights of other students to be provided with an education.

Don't understand all the numbers on the choices.

The most formal the school can get by with. It's called artifactual communications. The for formal the dress the more respect you get and the more respect you give. Unfortunately, the teachers in many schools dress worse than the students and then wonder why they don't get any respect and can't keep order.

No dress code at all at my high school, and people are fine with it. Makes for some interesting days when the weather is really warm, but mostly kids dress to conform, so there is not a ton of blatant nudity. We do have one or two "exhibitionists" in my grade, but its not so bad.

Note: There should be dress codes for some school situations because of safety reasons, for example minimum bare skin in certain chemistry labs, stuff like that.

my school has a really rigid uniform. we all have to wear skirts (even during the winter, which sucks, cause it can get pretty chilly), always have our shirts tucked in, and we r only supposed to buy our uniforms from a school-approved provider. and they recently decided that headbands can only be 2 inches wide and a solid color. its annoying, but at least i dont really have to think about wat i have to wear when i wake up.

they recently decided that headbands can only be 2 inches wide and a solid color.

Headbands?
Is it a John McEnroe tennis school or something? Or volleyball....

It should really be up to the parents to decide.

And, when the kids are no longer minors, it should be their choice and their choice alone. Feh, they could go to school nude for all I care.

I agree.

Headbands?
Is it a John McEnroe tennis school or something? Or volleyball....

nope. catholic school. oh, i dont mean sweatbands, they r the plastic-y ones that you can buy

uniforms!

oh, but not for college, then you should wear business casual to class ;)

I could never have pulled off "business casual" in college - but then, none of my classmates could have, either. Heck, people wore pajamas around campus all the time. When your workload is large enough that many of the labs feature sleeping bags, no one really has the time or the inclination to wear anything more complicated than jeans and a T-shirt. :)

I could never have pulled off "business casual" in college - but then, none of my classmates could have, either. Heck, people wore pajamas around campus all the time. When your workload is large enough that many of the labs feature sleeping bags, no one really has the time or the inclination to wear anything more complicated than jeans and a T-shirt. :)

I would've said jeans and a t-shirt were almost a uniform in themselves in college. I knew a guy who wore pink or green sweatsuits with velcro shoes, (100% geek, but really nice) and everyone made fun of him. And there were the girls who dressed up to attract sexual attention, and everyone looked at them. But all the "normal" people wore the generic jeans and t-shirt. In fact, there were even "acceptable" and "unacceptable" colors of t-shirts, socially. Preferably white, but otherwise light pastel colors. No black, certainly, or you were odd. Heh. Stupid social norms.

Ugly people in a burka, rest I don't care

:rolleyes:

I suppose, if it werent' for the heating cost, there might be something to be said for having everyone walk around naked, then maybe it'll stop being an ffing big deal. Besides, it'll make it terribly hard to conceal weapons.

Uniforms. Or a fairly strict dress code. Since most work places are going to have one you may as well get kids used to it.

No requirements, and definitely NOT uniforms. I'll never send my kid to a school that requires a certain way of dressing, or even prescribes what to wear.

No requirements, and definitely NOT uniforms. I'll never send my kid to a school that requires a certain way of dressing, or even prescribes what to wear.

Then you might want to leave Ireland, almost all of the primary and secondary schools require uniforms.

Normal, casual wear. Something that children are comfortable with to play in. For students, whatever is still within "decent". By french standards that is, not afghan or bible-belt USA. :p

if everyone were required to not wear anything that would certainly put an end to this question now wouldn't it?

i think the only reasonable limitation on atire is that it not provoke others to behaive in ways those required to be in their company might find distasteful.

and this has no fixed or absolute answer but is entirely subject to culture and context.

uniforms of a school or workplace are another way to settle this issue.
perhapse not the best, but when all else fails, it is one possible answer.
that is, provided of course, the school or workplace actualy provide them,
and not dictate that parents or employees expend their own limited means meeting it.

=^^=
.../\...

Then you might want to leave Ireland, almost all of the primary and secondary schools require uniforms.

I don't have a child yet... :D
If I do, I might consider leaving Ireland anyway.

ah well, in ireland perhapse everyone should be required to wear at least one visible item of pumpkin orange AND at least one visible item of lime green!

both!

(or alternatively at least one vissible item the includes both in some sort of pattern, preferably psychodellic)

actualy i feel that is a very nice combination aestheticly.

=^^=
.../\...

ah well, in ireland perhapse everyone should be required to wear at least one visible item of pumpkin orange AND at least one visible item of lime green!

both!

(or alternatively at least one vissible item the includes both in some sort of pattern, preferably psychodellic)

actualy i feel that is a very nice combination aestheticly.



You is crazy.

meh, if people want to turn up naked, I couldn't care less.

meh, if people want to turn up naked, I couldn't care less.

I'd be fine with it too...

Just don't yell if you get awkward stares. :p

I'd be fine with it too...

Just don't yell if you get awkward stares. :p

Not saying i'd do it, but eh.

They had a dress code in my highschool in the States. It required you not to wear t-shirts but someting with a collar, like a shirt or something, or a sweater on top of your (t-)shirt.

I got around that one, though - and while they surely didn't appreciate it, there was nothing they could do:
I started wearing a t-shirt and on top of that my metal vest! :eek::cool::D

(The following pic is not actually my vest but it pretty much looked like it, albeit in blue, and with a couple of different patches... But it shows it definitely does have a collar.)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/MetalVest.jpg

That aside, I'd favor school uniforms anyday, as long as they are casual/comfortable in some sort of way, too. Many advantages, very few disadvantages.

They had a dress code in my highschool in the States. It required you not to wear t-shirts but someting with a collar, like a shirt or something, or a sweater on top of your (t-)shirt.

I got around that one, though - and while they surely didn't appreciate it, there was nothing they could do:
I started wearing a t-shirt and on top of that my metal vest! :eek::cool::D

(The following pic is not actually my vest but it pretty much looked like it, albeit in blue, and with a couple of different patches... But it shows it definitely does have a collar.)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/MetalVest.jpg

That aside, I'd favor school uniforms anyday, as long as they are casual/comfortable in some sort of way, too. Many advantages, very few disadvantages.

Advantages: Not worrying about what to wear
not having to worry about clothing problems in social aspects

Disadvantages: another right being taken from citizens
a step closer to fascist authoritarianism
Protests, especially if there is an inherent problem with the uniform
Illegality (there's something about this somewhere... Bill of Rights?)
Business appealing the decision if on a big enough scale (and teh government cannot resist)

One more reason for rebellion





That's all I got.

Speaking as someone who had to wear a blouse and plaid skirt from kindergarden to 8th grade, uniforms are actually not that bad. We loathed them when we had to wear them, but it really helps the learning environment and stuff when we all looked alike. But then again, that might be because we all knew each other since kindergarden. Additionally, we didn't have to worry about choosing clothes to school each day, and when we had free dress days, those were always more fun than usual.

In any case, I think that uniforms should only be for the first part of the school career. In high school and college, nothing distracting would be fine.

I'm for uniforms.
In early education, it makes the place look nicer, and eliminates being ridiculed/bullied for having the "wrong" trainers/tee shirt/etc.
Hopefully, in later education, people have grown up enough for the problem to go away, allowing casual dress.

Me and a couple accquaintances were discussing this topic. Your opinion?
I don't believe in any enforced dress codes other than what would be necessary for health or safety standards. For instance, I agree with food service workers being required to wear hairnets, gloves, and particular uniforms to minimize contamination of food. Other occupations require particular uniforms for safety reasons or for identification purposes (the police and emergency responders spring to mind). Beyond that, I think dress codes are a waste of everybody's time and energy.

I could never have pulled off "business casual" in college - but then, none of my classmates could have, either. Heck, people wore pajamas around campus all the time. When your workload is large enough that many of the labs feature sleeping bags, no one really has the time or the inclination to wear anything more complicated than jeans and a T-shirt. :)

;) means I am semi-joking.

Is it just me that doesn't understand the #5 + xyz or #whatever options?

I struggled to understand any of the options.

Here's my stance:

There's two uniforms. One is the normal school uniform, the second is for women, specifically. The second would be, they dress like they normally do, but they have to admit in front of the school in the auditorium that they dress like whores and most likely act like whores as well.

The school uniform alternative wouldn't look so bad. And, the girls that choose the latter option will be open season for all the horny boys - you can't really say 'hey, stop smacking my ass' when you said in front of everyone 'I wear tight jeans and short skirts specifically so that my ass can be more spankable'.

Let's bring a little sense back to clothes. If you wear something, it's for a reason. Either admit the reason, or don't wear it. Simple as that.

Here's my stance:

There's two uniforms. One is the normal school uniform, the second is for women, specifically. The second would be, they dress like they normally do, but they have to admit in front of the school in the auditorium that they dress like whores and most likely act like whores as well.

The school uniform alternative wouldn't look so bad. And, the girls that choose the latter option will be open season for all the horny boys - you can't really say 'hey, stop smacking my ass' when you said in front of everyone 'I wear tight jeans and short skirts specifically so that my ass can be more spankable'.

Let's bring a little sense back to clothes. If you wear something, it's for a reason. Either admit the reason, or don't wear it. Simple as that.

you know, I have seen a lot of males in unacceptable dress too.... I don't want to see anyone's underwear.

Here's my stance:

There's two uniforms. One is the normal school uniform, the second is for women, specifically. The second would be, they dress like they normally do, but they have to admit in front of the school in the auditorium that they dress like whores and most likely act like whores as well.

The school uniform alternative wouldn't look so bad. And, the girls that choose the latter option will be open season for all the horny boys - you can't really say 'hey, stop smacking my ass' when you said in front of everyone 'I wear tight jeans and short skirts specifically so that my ass can be more spankable'.

Let's bring a little sense back to clothes. If you wear something, it's for a reason. Either admit the reason, or don't wear it. Simple as that.
Yes, because girls couldn't possibly be wearing short skirts for any reason other than that they want to be sexually harassed. And we can't possibly teach boys to, you know, NOT TOUCH other people against their wishes.

Because males cannot be expected to keep their hands to themselves, females should be forced to adhere to special dress codes. Females are responsible for the behavior of males, and thus should be forced to dress how we want them to dress or shut up when they are harassed.

I also like how this is so uni-directional. Nothing a boy wears will ever make him automatically deserving of harassment or abuse, but girls are a whole other story. Boys are "horny" and want to harass girls, so they should be allowed to harass girls who we decide are "whores" or "slutty" based on the clothing they wear. Yet, even though boys are the ones behaving rudely and inappropriately in this situation, it's the girls who bear all the responsibility and who are the target of the insults. They're "whores" for wearing certain clothes, but the boys who harass girls...we don't even HAVE a derisive word for them. Because they're just being boys, right?

And people wonder why rape is so common in the Western world. Sheesh.

eliminates being ridiculed/bullied for having the "wrong" trainers/tee shirt/etc.

So kids get bullied for other stuff anyway. It doesn't fix that problem.

Here's my stance:

There's two uniforms. One is the normal school uniform, the second is for women, specifically. The second would be, they dress like they normally do, but they have to admit in front of the school in the auditorium that they dress like whores and most likely act like whores as well.

The school uniform alternative wouldn't look so bad. And, the girls that choose the latter option will be open season for all the horny boys - you can't really say 'hey, stop smacking my ass' when you said in front of everyone 'I wear tight jeans and short skirts specifically so that my ass can be more spankable'.

Let's bring a little sense back to clothes. If you wear something, it's for a reason. Either admit the reason, or don't wear it. Simple as that.

This makes me lol. I wonder how many people would decide to wear the slutty uniform if they were required to admit publicly that they're a slut.

you know, I have seen a lot of males in unacceptable dress too.... I don't want to see anyone's underwear.

Well, one thing solves that: Belts. You can't really solve the female dress problem with any one thing, unless it's a momo.

And oh nono, I'm not saying I -don't- want to see the underwear of girls. Not by a friggin' longshot! I'd be one of those horny boys spanking the girls as they walk by! I'm just saying, don't dress like a whore and pretend you're the Virgin Mary. Be proud that you're a whore.

Well, one thing solves that: Belts. You can't really solve the female dress problem with any one thing, unless it's a momo.

And oh nono, I'm not saying I -don't- want to see the underwear of girls. Not by a friggin' longshot! I'd be one of those horny boys spanking the girls as they walk by! I'm just saying, don't dress like a whore and pretend you're the Virgin Mary. Be proud that you're a whore.
I'm just saying, don't brag about how you're a horny bastard who spanks girls as they pass by and then try to pretend like you've got the right to call OTHER people whores.

According to you, girls deserve to be called sluts for DRESSING a certain way, but for some reason boys don't merit this same label for being so horny that they cannot restrain themselves from sexually harassing others. That's lovely logic.

Yes, because girls couldn't possibly be wearing short skirts for any reason other than that they want to be sexually harassed. And we can't possibly teach boys to, you know, NOT TOUCH other people against their wishes.

Because males cannot be expected to keep their hands to themselves, females should be forced to adhere to special dress codes. Females are responsible for the behavior of males, and thus should be forced to dress how we want them to dress or shut up when they are harassed.

I also like how this is so uni-directional. Nothing a boy wears will ever make him automatically deserving of harassment or abuse, but girls are a whole other story. Boys are "horny" and want to harass girls, so they should be allowed to harass girls who we decide are "whores" or "slutty" based on the clothing they wear. Yet, even though boys are the ones behaving rudely and inappropriately in this situation, it's the girls who bear all the responsibility and who are the target of the insults. They're "whores" for wearing certain clothes, but the boys who harass girls...we don't even HAVE a derisive word for them. Because they're just being boys, right?

And people wonder why rape is so common in the Western world. Sheesh.

I've yet to see a guy walking around with his balls hanging out, but so often have I seen girls with loose skirts that show their thongs when they bend over slightly. What practical purpose do these close present other than to tease the fuck out of every male within a two mile radius?

So kids get bullied for other stuff anyway. It doesn't fix that problem.

It's ever so slightly better than nothing.

Well, one thing solves that: Belts. You can't really solve the female dress problem with any one thing, unless it's a momo.

And oh nono, I'm not saying I -don't- want to see the underwear of girls. Not by a friggin' longshot! I'd be one of those horny boys spanking the girls as they walk by! I'm just saying, don't dress like a whore and pretend you're the Virgin Mary. Be proud that you're a whore.
what constitues dressing like a whore?

I just want to know so I know if I do that.

Well, one thing solves that: Belts. You can't really solve the female dress problem with any one thing, unless it's a momo.

And oh nono, I'm not saying I -don't- want to see the underwear of girls. Not by a friggin' longshot! I'd be one of those horny boys spanking the girls as they walk by! I'm just saying, don't dress like a whore and pretend you're the Virgin Mary. Be proud that you're a whore.

What the hell is wrong with you? Where were you brought up and who taught you it is acceptable to think of women who don't cover themselves as being whores? Who taught you it is acceptable to sexually assult women simply because they turn you on?

My guess is that despite thinking these women/girls are whores you are not getting any and feel bitter about it and this is reflected in your mysogony.

I've yet to see a guy walking around with his balls hanging out, but so often have I seen girls with loose skirts that show their thongs when they bend over slightly.

So what? A hundred years ago, a woman was a "slut" for showing her ankle.

Nothing a girl wears gives you the right to touch her body without her consent. If you can't deal with that concept, you're a rapist. Rapists are not people who should be empowered to tell women how to dress.

It's as simple as that.

You don't have to worry about what "signals" a girl is sending with her clothing, because it's really really simple: you don't have the "right" to touch her. Period. You NEVER have the right to grab her ass or touch her boobs or grope her. It's her body, and it doesn't belong to you. If she chooses to give you permission to touch her, then that's a privaledge you may enjoy for as long as she extends it, and no longer. So don't worry about if she "looks like a slut," or shows her thong, or anything else. Whether she's in a burqa or a thong, you don't have the right to her body. Get over yourself and quit expecting girls to take responsibility for your lack of self control.


What practical purpose do these close present other than to tease the fuck out of every male within a two mile radius?
Doesn't matter. No male has the right to touch a girl's body against her wishes, no matter how "teased" he feels. If she walks around bare-ass naked, you still don't have the right to touch her against her wishes. If you find yourself unable to control your sexual urges, seek professional help immediately before you rape somebody. Quit blaming other people for your personal failures, and quit expecting girls to take responisibility for YOUR choices.

I'm just saying, don't brag about how you're a horny bastard who spanks girls as they pass by and then try to pretend like you've got the right to call OTHER people whores.

I never said I -did- do it, but I know a good 90% of the girls that dressed this way did it for the specific purpose of teasing the guys. A good 60% of that 90% were textbook definition SLUTS but whenever she was mad at you she'd get the grace of god in her holier-than-thou attitude and suddenly forget that just last night she was sucking the dick of "some guy from school" - not a guy with a name, just some guy from school, to her.

You have yet to tell me why you would dress like that for any reason other than a physical reaction from males. I know a HUGE reason of why any guy dresses in any way is affected by what he thinks girls will find attractive, with comfort being second place - a few do the other way around, but it's still very important and is always kept in mind when getting dressed. We'll admit it, too - we dress a certain way so we can be popular with girls. It's the ultimate social goal of high school for a guy. That's why you can't call a guy a slut for having sex with lots of girls, because he's damned proud of it! He'll admit to you, to your face "I love sex with beautiful women, and the more there are, the better it is!" - I respect women who do the same if it's what they truly feel. If they feel there's nothing wrong with sex, I hold nothing against them for having sex and being a 'textbook slut', because those words mean nothing to them if they accept that and carry on because of who they are.

I'm simply asking people to be logical and true to themselves. Don't act more 'moral' than you think you should be just because you feel ashamed of being a certain way while dressing the way you want.

My guess is that despite thinking these women/girls are whores you are not getting any and feel bitter about it and this is reflected in your mysogony.
My guess is that the very reason he calls these girls "sluts" and "whores" is BECAUSE he isn't getting any. The bitches are daring to think that they get to choose who touches them and who kisses them, and they're not choosing him. They dress all sexy and then don't let him touch their goodies...the SLUTS! How dare they believe that their bodies are their own?! They're fucking TEASES! Men are entitled to have women's bodies when they want them! Women don't get to walk around SHOWING their bodies and then not give men what they want!

I quite like school uniforms. As either Saxnot or IV Stalin could vouch, our school uniform is entiely unique; Purple Blazer, Purple Tie, White shirt, Black trousers.

I rather liked it as well.

Well, one thing solves that: Belts.
*Falls over laughing*
Yeah... right... sure...

Remind me to post some picks sometime of my students in their uniforms... the boys ARE wearing the manditory belts and they have their nice navy slacks belted right above their groin in an effort to make them look like American baggy pants.

Yup, belts sure solved THAT problem.

So what? A hundred years ago, a woman was a "slut" for showing her ankle.

Nothing a girl wears gives you the right to touch her body without her consent. If you can't deal with that concept, you're a rapist. Rapists are not people who should be empowered to tell women how to dress.

It's as simple as that.

You don't have to worry about what "signals" a girl is sending with her clothing, because it's really really simple: you don't have the "right" to touch her. Period. You NEVER have the right to grab her ass or touch her boobs or grope her. It's her body, and it doesn't belong to you. If she chooses to give you permission to touch her, then that's a privaledge you may enjoy for as long as she extends it, and no longer. So don't worry about if she "looks like a slut," or shows her thong, or anything else. Whether she's in a burqa or a thong, you don't have the right to her body. Get over yourself and quit expecting girls to take responsibility for your lack of self control.


Doesn't matter. No male has the right to touch a girl's body against her wishes, no matter how "teased" he feels. If she walks around bare-ass naked, you still don't have the right to touch her against her wishes. If you find yourself unable to control your sexual urges, seek professional help immediately before you rape somebody. Quit blaming other people for your personal failures, and quit expecting girls to take responisibility for YOUR choices.

Not saying we would have the RIGHT - I'm saying it doesn't make sense for her to do such things and get mad at the reaction. Its both party's fault, but the women made the decision to dress that way. If a guy walks around with his dick hanging out, by all means, fondle him - I'm sure he won't mind. Know why? Because that's why he would have his dick out, so it could be fondled. Men use logic when they dress.

Most women in high school don't take ANY responsibility for how they act or dress - they ignore the unpopular kids and encourage bullying through preferring company with the assholes. But that's not at all their fault? It is, partly, at the very least.

Women should understand that men do things because of them - how they dress, how they act, what they say - men are always affected. These aren't nutjobs that can't keep their hands to themselves, or violent bastards who bully for the fun of it, no - they do it because of the women who give them gratification for the things they do.

It -IS- a double-standard, yes, because it has to be. Women don't do that for men - if a guy goes around shirtless with ripped abs, you will NOT see any girl start picking on a nerd for the attention of said guy. This is the difference. Men are reactionary - they will react. I'm sorry, but it's true. You can tell them to stop, but you'd only have to counteract the entire history of the human race and all that programming telling the man to do these things to get what he wants.

*Falls over laughing*
Yeah... right... sure...

Remind me to post some picks sometime of my students in their uniforms... the boys ARE wearing the manditory belts and they have their nice navy slacks belted right above their groin in an effort to make them look like American baggy pants.

Yup, belts sure solved THAT problem.

I don't see how that's in any way sexual. It makes slacks look like baggy pants... so what. Unless the pants are hanging below the groin, so what?

I never said I -did- do it, but I know a good 90% of the girls that dressed this way did it for the specific purpose of teasing the guys. A good 60% of that 90% were textbook definition SLUTS but whenever she was mad at you she'd get the grace of god in her holier-than-thou attitude and suddenly forget that just last night she was sucking the dick of "some guy from school" - not a guy with a name, just some guy from school, to her.

"Slut" is a pathetic word used by pathetic guys who are angry that girls aren't choosing to sleep with THEM. If you ever want to have a successful relationship with a female human being, I suggest you get over this kind of infantile BS.


You have yet to tell me why you would dress like that for any reason other than a physical reaction from males.

For one thing, you're being ridiculously heterosexist. I used to enjoy wearing short skirts because my girlfriend found them hot.

For another thing, there is pretty much nothing a girl can wear that won't be viewed as "sexual" by somebody or another. I like to wear jeans that fit me and are made of stretch-denim, because they feel very comfortable...these also happen to fit closely against my legs and buttocks. I don't know how "sexy" I look, but I know I've seen males examining my ass on several occasions.


I know a HUGE reason of why any guy dresses in any way is affected by what he thinks girls will find attractive, with comfort being second place - a few do the other way around, but it's still very important and is always kept in mind when getting dressed. We'll admit it, too - we dress a certain way so we can be popular with girls. It's the ultimate social goal of high school for a guy. That's why you can't call a guy a slut for having sex with lots of girls, because he's damned proud of it!

And there are plenty of girls who like to make themselves attractive to guys, yet you want to call them "sluts." You think that these girls should be harassed and mistreated because they dress a certain way.


He'll admit to you, to your face "I love sex with beautiful women, and the more there are, the better it is!" - I respect women who do the same if it's what they truly feel. If they feel there's nothing wrong with sex, I hold nothing against them for having sex and being a 'textbook slut', because those words mean nothing to them if they accept that and carry on because of who they are.

The word "slut" has meaning to this day because of people like you. The reason there aren't many girls who are sexually comfortable and confident is because of people like you, who shame them and harass them and insult them for not conforming to your personal standards. Take responsibility for the fact that you help create exactly what you're bitching about.


I'm simply asking people to be logical and true to themselves. Don't act more 'moral' than you think you should be just because you feel ashamed of being a certain way while dressing the way you want.
You shame these girls, grope them, abuse them, and then have the nerve to tell them not to feel ashamed? You've got an extremely over-blown sense of entitlement. Quit telling other people how to dress, how to act, and how to feel. Don't worry about bossing other people around so much, and instead focus on dealing with why you want to sexually assault women.

I quite like school uniforms. As either Saxnot or IV Stalin could vouch, our school uniform is entiely unique; Purple Blazer, Purple Tie, White shirt, Black trousers.

I rather liked it as well.

Hardly unique though

My guess is that the very reason he calls these girls "sluts" and "whores" is BECAUSE he isn't getting any. The bitches are daring to think that they get to choose who touches them and who kisses them, and they're not choosing him. They dress all sexy and then don't let him touch their goodies...the SLUTS! How dare they believe that their bodies are their own?! They're fucking TEASES! Men are entitled to have women's bodies when they want them! Women don't get to walk around SHOWING their bodies and then not give men what they want!

I'm disappointed you would jump to such assumptions. I don't suffer from any of these sicknesses you speak of, I'm not a hermit, and I don't call a girl a slut until I see her wearing something stupid, talk to her about it, and get bitched at for noticing what she's wearing - "Why the hell are you looking, you fucking perv?!" pretending that every guy in the room isn't doing the same thing.

It's stupid. It defies all forms of logic, and that's really what bothers me the most.

"Slut" is a pathetic word used by pathetic guys who are angry that girls aren't choosing to sleep with THEM. If you ever want to have a successful relationship with a female human being, I suggest you get over this kind of infantile BS.


For one thing, you're being ridiculously heterosexist. I used to enjoy wearing short skirts because my girlfriend found them hot.

For another thing, there is pretty much nothing a girl can wear that won't be viewed as "sexual" by somebody or another. I like to wear jeans that fit me and are made of stretch-denim, because they feel very comfortable...these also happen to fit closely against my legs and buttocks. I don't know how "sexy" I look, but I know I've seen males examining my ass on several occasions.


And there are plenty of girls who like to make themselves attractive to guys, yet you want to call them "sluts." You think that these girls should be harassed and mistreated because they dress a certain way.


The word "slut" has meaning to this day because of people like you. The reason there aren't many girls who are sexually comfortable and confident is because of people like you, who shame them and harass them and insult them for not conforming to your personal standards. Take responsibility for the fact that you help create exactly what you're bitching about.


You shame these girls, grope them, abuse them, and then have the nerve to tell them not to feel ashamed? You've got an extremely over-blown sense of entitlement. Quit telling other people how to dress, how to act, and how to feel. Don't worry about bossing other people around so much, and instead focus on dealing with why you want to sexually assault women.

At this point I can tell you aren't actually listening to a word I'm saying because you still insist that I've shamed/groped/abused someone simply because I've asked why they wear what they wear and were responded to with a flurry of insults.

I'm already engaged to my girlfriend of five years. So much for your theory.

I don't want to sexually assault anyone! I have no reason to! I simply ask that there be a reason for dressing a certain way. You've provided a reason for the tight jeans, and now I understand. See how that works? We've come to a solution for one subject, because you actually responded to what I've asked. How bout we try that more often?

Dress code is bullshit.

Not saying we would have the RIGHT - I'm saying it doesn't make sense for her to do such things and get mad at the reaction. Its both party's fault, but the women made the decision to dress that way.
So... you are saying that you think you have the right to sexually assult a woman because you feel horny? Women dress in an attractive way to attract men. Then of the men they attract they CHOOSE who they want. My guess is that you are not one of the men they want to attract.


Most women in high school don't take ANY responsibility for how they act or dress - they ignore the unpopular kids and encourage bullying through preferring company with the assholes. But that's not at all their fault? It is, partly, at the very least.
This coming from a guy who does not feel he should take responsibility for a criminal sexual assult. Let me guess - you're one of the unpopular kids? You blame your being bullied on the fact good looking women don;t want to sleep with you?


Women should understand that men do things because of them - how they dress, how they act, what they say - men are always affected. These aren't nutjobs that can't keep their hands to themselves, or violent bastards who bully for the fun of it, no - they do it because of the women who give them gratification for the things they do.

Well - normally I'm a pretty laid back guy. But if someone tries sexually assulting one of my sisters because they think she has a short skirt I'll beat the shit out of him. So yeah... sometmes I am a violent bastard...

Seriously - you have issues. You hate women - that much is clear. you blame women on your lot in life because you can't get any and think that is why you are being bullied. That is not the reason. You have to work this stuff out for yourself - but seek help for your attitused befre you end up abusing some woman who is a sucker enough to get invlved in a relationship with smene like yourself.

Men are reactionary - they will react. I'm sorry, but it's true. You can tell them to stop, but you'd only have to counteract the entire history of the human race and all that programming telling the man to do these things to get what he wants.
Dude, stop trying to force ME into YOUR problems. I don't react to how a woman dresses unless I feel like it. It's called being an adult, you know, an actual man. How a woman dresses is not an open invitation nor is it aimed at you, no matter what you may think.

I don't see how that's in any way sexual. It makes slacks look like baggy pants... so what. Unless the pants are hanging below the groin, so what?
You said that belts solved the baggy pants problem, in the school I teach at, they create it.

I'm disappointed you would jump to such assumptions. I don't suffer from any of these sicknesses you speak of, I'm not a hermit, and I don't call a girl a slut until I see her wearing something stupid, talk to her about it, and get bitched at for noticing what she's wearing - "Why the hell are you looking, you fucking perv?!" pretending that every guy in the room isn't doing the same thing.

It's stupid. It defies all forms of logic, and that's really what bothers me the most.
Maybe if you tried talking to female human beings, you'd be able to understand and empathize.

Let me help you out a little on this one.

Most people, male or female, don't appreciate being told that they're wearing "something stupid." If they ask for your opinion, that's fine. If they don't, and if you choose to share this opinion with them, don't pretend to be surprised when they get snippy at you.

And if you are tactless and immature enough to call somebody a "slut" based on their clothing, don't be shocked when women have hostile reactions to you. You deserve it.

If a girl is wearing "sexy" clothing yet seems to not appreciate your stares, consider several possibilities:

1) She doesn't particularly enjoy men staring at her. There are women who dig women, you know.
2) She doesn't like you staring at her. She may be dressing to be attractive, but she may not want to attract YOU. She might want attention from a male who isn't you, such as her mate or her partner.
3) You may, unknowingly, be expressing or doing something you don't intend. Your gaze may appear hostile or rude to her, even if you don't intend it that way. You may have an expression on your face that you aren't aware of, which she is responding to.
4) She may simply feel comfortable wearing certain clothing, and decides to wear it for that reason. Crazy thought, I know, but women sometimes do this.

I'm disappointed you would jump to such assumptions. I don't suffer from any of these sicknesses you speak of, I'm not a hermit, and I don't call a girl a slut until I see her wearing something stupid, talk to her about it, and get bitched at for noticing what she's wearing - "Why the hell are you looking, you fucking perv?!" pretending that every guy in the room isn't doing the same thing.

It's stupid. It defies all forms of logic, and that's really what bothers me the most.
It's a reasonable conclusion to jump to - men who can get women easily normally don't complain about them being sluts, or being angry at 'sluts' for 'teasing' them.

Men who can't get women they find attractive however do.

Dude, stop trying to force ME into YOUR problems. I don't react to how a woman dresses unless I feel like it. It's called being an adult, you know, an actual man. How a woman dresses is not an open invitation nor is it aimed at you, no matter what you may think.

You said that belts solved the baggy pants problem, in the school I teach at, they create it.

I said they solve the "pants are hanging off of their asses" problem. I assumed that's what bottle was talking about.

And yes, not all guys are like this, but the vast majority are. And there aren't any adults or actual men in HIGH SCHOOL. There are kids that are in HIGH SCHOOL. Kay? Kay.

It's a reasonable conclusion to jump to - men who can get women easily normally don't complain about them being sluts, or being angry at 'sluts' for 'teasing' them.

Men who can't get women they find attractive however do.

You're not listening to me. At all. I'm saddened.

I'll tell you, I had no shortage of my supply of cuties. You won't believe me because you cling to the definition you have pegged on me that I must be some loser bastard who's angry at the female populace and can't possibly have an actual REASON for being confused as to why women dress this way.

At this point I can tell you aren't actually listening to a word I'm saying because you still insist that I've shamed/groped/abused someone simply because I've asked why they wear what they wear and were responded to with a flurry of insults.

You said, "I'd be one of those horny boys spanking the girls as they walk by!"

If you feel this behavior is appropriate, then my comments stand. If you were joking, and if you agree that such behavior is totally inappropriate, then I'm sorry I misunderstood you.


I'm already engaged to my girlfriend of five years. So much for your theory.

I said "successful" relationship. Brittany Spears is married, kiddo, so engagement really doesn't prove anything these days.


I don't want to sexually assault anyone! I have no reason to! I simply ask that there be a reason for dressing a certain way. You've provided a reason for the tight jeans, and now I understand. See how that works? We've come to a solution for one subject, because you actually responded to what I've asked. How bout we try that more often?
How about you recognize that there doesn't have to be a "reason"? How about you realize that women don't need to justify how they dress to you? How about you realize that there is NOTHING, repeat NOTHING, that a woman wears which justifies the kind of behavior you describe?

Nothing a woman wears makes her deserving of sexual harassment or abuse. Period. It doesn't matter how "slutty" you think she is dressed. Behave yourself, or lock yourself up for the good of society.

I said they solve the "pants are hanging off of their asses" problem. I assumed that's what bottle was talking about.
Yup! That's them all right.

And yes, not all guys are like this, but the vast majority are. And there aren't any adults or actual men in HIGH SCHOOL. There are kids that are in HIGH SCHOOL. Kay? Kay.
I'm a junior high school teacher, believe you me, I am well aware of that. It still does not excuse the behavore you have outlined however.

Maybe if you tried talking to female human beings, you'd be able to understand and empathize.

Let me help you out a little on this one.

Most people, male or female, don't appreciate being told that they're wearing "something stupid." If they ask for your opinion, that's fine. If they don't, and if you choose to share this opinion with them, don't pretend to be surprised when they get snippy at you.

And if you are tactless and immature enough to call somebody a "slut" based on their clothing, don't be shocked when women have hostile reactions to you. You deserve it.

If a girl is wearing "sexy" clothing yet seems to not appreciate your stares, consider several possibilities:

1) She doesn't particularly enjoy men staring at her. There are women who dig women, you know.
2) She doesn't like you staring at her. She may be dressing to be attractive, but she may not want to attract YOU. She might want attention from a male who isn't you, such as her mate or her partner.
3) You may, unknowingly, be expressing or doing something you don't intend. Your gaze may appear hostile or rude to her, even if you don't intend it that way. You may have an expression on your face that you aren't aware of, which she is responding to.
4) She may simply feel comfortable wearing certain clothing, and decides to wear it for that reason. Crazy thought, I know, but women sometimes do this.

I've never called a girl a slut to her face, and never before she yelled at me for asking why she was wearing something.

Conversation:

"Hey Rebecca."
"Hey Tommy, what's up?"
"Well I'm curious. Every guy in here is staring at you."
"Yeah, I know. *smile*"
"No, I mean, because they can see way up your skirt. Look behind you real quick, you'll see about three guys bending forward slightly."
She blushes and gets angry, at me - "Who the fuck do you think you are?! Get the fuck away from me, fucking asshole."

Which is when I usually walk away and collect my 5$ bet that that would happen. Notice I didn't insult her or say her dress was inappropriate, but I simply warned her that guys were eyeing her in places she probably wouldn't appreciate, and was retaliated against with hostility.

Why?

You're not listening to me. At all. I'm saddened.

I'll tell you, I had no shortage of my supply of cuties. You won't believe me because you cling to the definition you have pegged on me that I must be some loser bastard who's angry at the female populace and can't possibly have an actual REASON for being confused as to why women dress this way.

Frankly I don't believe you

I can't think of ANY guy I know who has been able to attract a lot of women ranting about them being sluts or going on about how these 'sluts' are responsible for bullying etc.

Your apparent understanding of women and how they thinks does not lead me to believe you are a master of communicating with women, or even talk to them very often.

If you talk to women much, and ahve relationships with women then you should know the answers to the questions you are going on about.

BTW - how old are you? you've been engaged 5 years? but you're goign on about high school girls? what the hell do they have to do with you anyway? I hope to god you're not a teacher....

Yup! That's them all right.


I'm a junior high school teacher, believe you me, I am well aware of that. It still does not excuse the behavore you have outlined however.

Lemme make it PERFECTLY CLEAR.

PERFECTLY CLEAR, OKAY?


I am in NO WAY excusing or condoning the behavior of guys who do these things - in fact I've warned girls about what the guys were doing BECAUSE of what they were wearing.

I am, however, saying that THESE THINGS WILL HAPPEN REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT I CONDONE THEM. I am asking that, knowing this, why girls would still insist on wearing clothes that incite such behavior - notice I didn't say "incite such WARRANTED behavior", because it's A BAD THING, and it could be prevented by not sending the wrong signals to guys. I'm explaining how the majority of the male minds works in high school, and the same thing that happened when I warned girls is now happening again - treated with hostility, name-calling, and general disregard for everything I've said in lieu of insult after insult.

Not saying we would have the RIGHT - I'm saying it doesn't make sense for her to do such things and get mad at the reaction. Its both party's fault, but the women made the decision to dress that way.

God, this is so disturbing and twisted.

No, it is not "both party's fault" if a male decides to touch a female against her wishes. He has control over his hands, and he is capable of not touching her. He is capable of choosing to respect her as a fucking human being.


If a guy walks around with his dick hanging out, by all means, fondle him - I'm sure he won't mind. Know why? Because that's why he would have his dick out, so it could be fondled.

You do not have the right to speak for other people about what they want. You do not get to assume that certain kinds of dress indicate consent to sexual activity. They don't, and that assumption on your part could land you in jail for rape.


Men use logic when they dress.

Yeah, and women don't. Men are logical, women are emotional. Men are sensible (though uncontrollably horny) while women are just silly critters who don't know what's good for them.

You couldn't be more paternalistic if you tried. Get a clue: girls know as much as you know. They're as smart as you. They don't need you telling them how to dress or how to act. If they make certain choices about how they dress, you shouldn't automatically assume those choices are "illogical" just because they are different from your choices. To do so is supremely arrogant.


Most women in high school don't take ANY responsibility for how they act or dress - they ignore the unpopular kids and encourage bullying through preferring company with the assholes. But that's not at all their fault? It is, partly, at the very least.

If girls are rude or bullying, they are responsible for their actions. However, how they dress is a whole other matter. They are not responsible for how YOU choose to act in response to their clothing. You are responsible for that, and it is pathetic to expect them to "take responsibility" for your choices.


Women should understand that men do things because of them - how they dress, how they act, what they say - men are always affected. These aren't nutjobs that can't keep their hands to themselves, or violent bastards who bully for the fun of it, no - they do it because of the women who give them gratification for the things they do.

Again with the paternalism.

Yes, women (like men) understand that human beings interact with one another. Women (like men) understand that their actions will elicit reactions from others. Women are not stupid.

What you are proposing, however, is that women should have to dress and act certain ways because men choose to respond in certain ways. And that's bullshit. If men can't control themselves, they're dangerous and should be jailed. If they can control themselves, then they should be expected to control themselves instead of telling women to control their actions for them.


It -IS- a double-standard, yes, because it has to be. Women don't do that for men - if a guy goes around shirtless with ripped abs, you will NOT see any girl start picking on a nerd for the attention of said guy.

Yes, girls are socialized different than boys. That's a horrible problem, and one we should fix rather than encourage. Boys are taught that they are entitled to act in ways that girls are not remotely permitted to act. Instead of punishing GIRLS for this fact, we should hold boys to a higher standard.


This is the difference. Men are reactionary - they will react. I'm sorry, but it's true. You can tell them to stop, but you'd only have to counteract the entire history of the human race and all that programming telling the man to do these things to get what he wants.
This is one of the most man-hating rambles I've ever seen. People always say that feminists are the man-haters, but here you are claiming that males are "programmed" to be assholes with no self-control or honor. Wow.

Sorry, but it's all BS. Plenty of guys are perfectly capable of showing control, restraint, and good behavior. I've slept with several of them :). I'm dating one such male at this very moment. If you are "reactionary" and unable to control your behavior, that is your personal failing, and you can't blame it on your maleness. You need to take responsibility for your actions and your choices, and quit asking other people to be your Mommy and control your life.

Frankly I don't believe you

I can't think of ANY guy I know who has been able to attract a lot of women ranting about them being sluts or going on about how these 'sluts' are responsible for bullying etc.

Your apparent understanding of women and how they thinks does not lead me to believe you are a master of communicating with women, or even talk to them very often.

If you talk to women much, and ahve relationships with women then you should know the answers to the questions you are going on about.

BTW - how old are you? you've been engaged 5 years? but you're goign on about high school girls? what the hell do they have to do with you anyway? I hope to god you're not a teacher....

I'm 19. I say they're PARTLY- listen to me, read my post - PARTLY responsible, not WHOLLY responsible. They are A factor, of MANY factors. Understand?

Whenever I talk to a girl about her problems it ends with her saying how nice I am and how easy I am to talk to - I can talk to women. I still don't know these answers, because I stopped asking, because I'd get bad responses.

I'm 19. I say they're PARTLY- listen to me, read my post - PARTLY responsible, not WHOLLY responsible. They are A factor, of MANY factors. Understand?

Whenever I talk to a girl about her problems it ends with her saying how nice I am and how easy I am to talk to - I can talk to women. I still don't know these answers, because I stopped asking, because I'd get bad responses.

Why are you going on about high school girls then? You're not in high school...

I am in NO WAY excusing or condoning the behavior of guys who do these things - in fact I've warned girls about what the guys were doing BECAUSE of what they were wearing.
But just before...

And oh nono, I'm not saying I -don't- want to see the underwear of girls. Not by a friggin' longshot! I'd be one of those horny boys spanking the girls as they walk by!

"I'm not condining it, I'd do it myself though and they don't have a right to complain about being sexually assulted if they wear a short skirt. BTW - Did I tell you how nice I am?"

I've never called a girl a slut to her face, and never before she yelled at me for asking why she was wearing something.

Conversation:

"Hey Rebecca."
"Hey Tommy, what's up?"
"Well I'm curious. Every guy in here is staring at you."
"Yeah, I know. *smile*"
"No, I mean, because they can see way up your skirt. Look behind you real quick, you'll see about three guys bending forward slightly."
She blushes and gets angry, at me - "Who the fuck do you think you are?! Get the fuck away from me, fucking asshole."

Which is when I usually walk away and collect my 5$ bet that that would happen. Notice I didn't insult her or say her dress was inappropriate, but I simply warned her that guys were eyeing her in places she probably wouldn't appreciate, and was retaliated against with hostility.

Why?

Because she doesn't like it pointed out that she's dressed like a five-dollar whore.

Because she doesn't like it pointed out that she's dressed like a five-dollar whore.

One can only assume she was going for the $10-15 range.

God, this is so disturbing and twisted.

No, it is not "both party's fault" if a male decides to touch a female against her wishes. He has control over his hands, and he is capable of not touching her. He is capable of choosing to respect her as a fucking human being.


You do not have the right to speak for other people about what they want. You do not get to assume that certain kinds of dress indicate consent to sexual activity. They don't, and that assumption on your part could land you in jail for rape.


Yeah, and women don't. Men are logical, women are emotional. Men are sensible (though uncontrollably horny) while women are just silly critters who don't know what's good for them.

You couldn't be more paternalistic if you tried. Get a clue: girls know as much as you know. They're as smart as you. They don't need you telling them how to dress or how to act. If they make certain choices about how they dress, you shouldn't automatically assume those choices are "illogical" just because they are different from your choices. To do so is supremely arrogant.


If girls are rude or bullying, they are responsible for their actions. However, how they dress is a whole other matter. They are not responsible for how YOU choose to act in response to their clothing. You are responsible for that, and it is pathetic to expect them to "take responsibility" for your choices.


Again with the paternalism.

Yes, women (like men) understand that human beings interact with one another. Women (like men) understand that their actions will elicit reactions from others. Women are not stupid.

What you are proposing, however, is that women should have to dress and act certain ways because men choose to respond in certain ways. And that's bullshit. If men can't control themselves, they're dangerous and should be jailed. If they can control themselves, then they should be expected to control themselves instead of telling women to control their actions for them.


Yes, girls are socialized different than boys. That's a horrible problem, and one we should fix rather than encourage. Boys are taught that they are entitled to act in ways that girls are not remotely permitted to act. Instead of punishing GIRLS for this fact, we should hold boys to a higher standard.


This is one of the most man-hating rambles I've ever seen. People always say that feminists are the man-haters, but here you are claiming that males are "programmed" to be assholes with no self-control or honor. Wow.

Sorry, but it's all BS. Plenty of guys are perfectly capable of showing control, restraint, and good behavior. I've slept with several of them :). I'm dating one such male at this very moment. If you are "reactionary" and unable to control your behavior, that is your personal failing, and you can't blame it on your maleness. You need to take responsibility for your actions and your choices, and quit asking other people to be your Mommy and control your life.

You make me sad, Bottle. Till this thread, I thought you understood what people were saying when they made their argument.

Where did I say women weren't intelligent? Where did I say in any way that they weren't as intelligent as men? You ASSUMED I thought that based on the conclusions you've come to about me because of the questions I ask - in fact, I think I've been arguing more that the men are LESS intelligent because they act this way.

So far you've said I hate both men AND women? Make up your mind. I'll make it easy for you - I hate neither. I question both. I would've mentioned how guys get all upset when you ask why they're wearing something, but I've never had any guy get upset - NONE. I've asked them just as often, too; "Hey what's up with your pants, man?" "Thuggin for the ladies." "Cool, cool." And that'd be the end of it. Notice I was a lot more blunt with this guy than I was in the example I gave of the girl, and I -still- wasn't given a negative reaction.

Because she doesn't like it pointed out that she's dressed like a five-dollar whore.

But I wasn't even mentioning that - I mentioned the guys staring at her in ways she probably wouldn't want, and she gets mad at -me-.

That makes no sense.

Why are you going on about high school girls then? You're not in high school...


But just before...


"I'm not condining it, I'd do it myself though and they don't have a right to complain about being sexually assulted if they wear a short skirt. BTW - Did I tell you how nice I am?"

I use high school as an example because it's got guys and girls socializing with eachother all day, so until college it's the best example there is of how men as a whole will react to women. That, and because I think high school is simply a bigger problem - that's usually when girls start dressing this way, and usually when guys start reacting.

A: I'm not condoning it.
B: I'd do it if I weren't engaged and they announced that the reason they dressed that way was so they could make their ass more accessable.
C: They can complain regardless - it doesn't make sense to me unless they give a reason, though, and by reason I mean "why I chose to wear this". If the reason was -NOT- so that they could get guys hanging off of their butt, then they have a legitimate complaint. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense to me, because this is what they wanted.

Listen, I know this is a sensitive subject, and I've tried to stomp my way through as gracefully as possible but apparently I've insulted Bottle somehow. I like Bottle - she's always got something interesting to throw into a debate, and usually it makes sense. One or two posts from her can turn a debate on its ear. I have lots of respect for her.

I don't want her angry at me for a misunderstanding - just because I'm being blunt and very non-PC with my wording doesn't mean I'm not truly interested and confused in the subject at hand.

So, to Bottle: I'm sorry if I've inadvertedly offended you.

I'll tell you, I had no shortage of my supply of cuties.

I'm already engaged to my girlfriend of five years. So much for your theory.

I'm 19.

Sooo.... Not to nitpick... but - You have been with your current girlfriend - now your fiance for 5 years, and you are 19. So you ahve been together since you were 14. And you had no shortage in your supply of cuties.

So like - did you bang a dozen girls when you were 13 or have you been cheating on your fiance?

B: I'd do it if I weren't engaged and they announced that the reason they dressed that way was so they could make their ass more accessable.
C: They can complain regardless - it doesn't make sense to me unless they give a reason, though, and by reason I mean "why I chose to wear this". If the reason was -NOT- so that they could get guys hanging off of their butt, then they have a legitimate complaint. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense to me, because this is what they wanted.
Where on earth have they announced that they are doing this to make their ass more accessable? And even more importantly when did they announce that they want to make their ass more accessable to YOU?

Sure - if a girl SAYS to you - "I'm wearing this skirt to make my ass more accessable because I want a guy, any guy, to grope my ass" Then go for it. Without permission however it is a sexual assult.

Sooo.... Not to nitpick... but - You have been with your current girlfriend - now your fiance for 5 years, and you are 19. So you ahve been together since you were 14. And you had no shortage in your supply of cuties.

So like - did you bang a dozen girls when you were 13 or have you been cheating on your fiance?


Where on earth have they announced that they are doing this to make their ass more accessable? And even more importantly when did they announce that they want to make their ass more accessable to YOU?

Sure - if a girl SAYS to you - "I'm wearing this skirt to make my ass more accessable because I want a guy, any guy, to grope my ass" Then go for it. Without permission however it is a sexual assult.

I'll admit it, I cheated on her once when I was 15. It was a long-distance relationship until last year. I fooled around with a girl and have regretted it ever since. I made a mistake, and I paid for it - I'm still paying for it - I'm probably going to pay for it for the rest of my life, but I'll do it, because I love her.

I went into a deep depression right before then, which probably affected it, and she broke up with me because of it. I started fooling around with other girls, not because I wanted to, but because I had no respect for myself and I saw no reason why not to do it. We got back together eventually, and I got better.

I've got nothing to hide, I've already come to terms with my mistake.


Also, no girl has ever announced it, but if you'd read my first post in this thread you'd see where I referenced it.

Also, no girl has ever announced it, but if you'd read my first post in this thread you'd see where I referenced it.

But... that is not why women wear revealing clothing.

Now - until a girl actually announces it - of her own free will - you do not have a right to decide to act upon your opinions of what you decide she was intending to convey through wearing a short skirt.

But... that is not why women wear revealing clothing.

Now - until a girl actually announces it - of her own free will - you do not have a right to decide to act upon your opinions of what you decide she was intending to convey through wearing a short skirt.

Where did I say I had a right to? I thought I made this "PERFECTLY CLEAR" earlier, but apparently not.

Now, my question was, WHY do they wear revealing clothing. Haven't gotten an answer yet. Lots of insults, lots of assumptions, no answers.

Where did I say I had a right to? I thought I made this "PERFECTLY CLEAR" earlier, but apparently not.

Now, my question was, WHY do they wear revealing clothing. Haven't gotten an answer yet. Lots of insults, lots of assumptions, no answers.

Your answers carry implications, which obscures the clarity you might be aiming for.

But... In answer to your question...

Reasons why women might dress in an 'attractive' manner.

1. Beauty is an end to itself. They like to look beautiful even if there is nobody there to see it.
2. They are dressing to look attractive to/for their partner.
3. They are dressing to attract the attention of men (or women, Bottle) and after they have that attention they CHOOSE which men (or women), if any, they want to take things further with.

Women do not dress with the intent of inviting any and every man to sexually assult them.

Your answers carry implications, which obscures the clarity you might be aiming for.

But... In answer to your question...

Reasons why women might dress in an 'attractive' manner.

1. Beauty is an end to itself. They like to look beautiful even if there is nobody there to see it.
2. They are dressing to look attractive to/for their partner.
3. They are dressing to attract the attention of men (or women, Bottle) and after they have that attention they CHOOSE which men (or women), if any, they want to take things further with.

Women do not dress with the intent of inviting any and every man to sexually assult them.

Most of the women I've talked to didn't seem to mind that every guy in the room was visually locked on either their boobs or ass.

Define "distracting" Really I think it depends on the person being "distracted":p


Back when I was in highschool there were a few girls who could have come to school wearing a burlap sack and been distracting . . .

Don't understand all the numbers on the choices.

The most formal the school can get by with. It's called artifactual communications. The for formal the dress the more respect you get and the more respect you give. Unfortunately, the teachers in many schools dress worse than the students and then wonder why they don't get any respect and can't keep order.

In general the more formal someone dresses the less respect/trust I have for them. But that probably comes from my experiance that someone in a suit wants to sell you their product, their politcs, their god or all three . . .

Back when I was in highschool there were a few girls who could have come to school wearing a burlap sack and been distracting . . .

Burlap sacks are sexy. Didn't you know? ;)

I've yet to see a guy walking around with his balls hanging out, but so often have I seen girls with loose skirts that show their thongs when they bend over slightly. What practical purpose do these close present other than to tease the fuck out of every male within a two mile radius?

Identifying males who need a good beating from decent men?

Not saying we would have the RIGHT - I'm saying it doesn't make sense for her to do such things and get mad at the reaction. Its both party's fault,

Sorry rape boy, it's the guys fault. Entirely.

Identifying males who need a good beating from decent men?

I know women who would wish such a punishment on a man for simply looking at her longer than she felt was necessary, while still obviously enjoying the fact that all the guys are looking at her.

This entire situation is subjective.

Sorry rape boy, it's the guys fault. Entirely.

Nice insult. Very unwarranted though it may be.

And I simply disagree. We're at an impasse - would you like to solve this through more insults?

I've never called a girl a slut to her face, and never before she yelled at me for asking why she was wearing something.

Conversation:

"Hey Rebecca."
"Hey Tommy, what's up?"
"Well I'm curious. Every guy in here is staring at you."
"Yeah, I know. *smile*"
"No, I mean, because they can see way up your skirt. Look behind you real quick, you'll see about three guys bending forward slightly."
She blushes and gets angry, at me - "Who the fuck do you think you are?! Get the fuck away from me, fucking asshole."

Which is when I usually walk away and collect my 5$ bet that that would happen. Notice I didn't insult her or say her dress was inappropriate, but I simply warned her that guys were eyeing her in places she probably wouldn't appreciate, and was retaliated against with hostility.

Why?


Damn, you were a real asshole in that situation. I'm not suprised by her reaction, you deserved it.

Damn, you were a real asshole in that situation. I'm not suprised by her reaction, you deserved it.

Yes, how much of an asshole I was. How could I dare point out to her that people would be laughing at her later because her PUSSY was showing. I'm sorry. I should've just ogled like everyone else, correct?

Why are you going on about high school girls then? You're not in high school...

Depending on when his birthday is, when he started kindergarten, and/or if he was held back or posibly skiped a grade or two he is either a senior in high school or just graduated recently.

Depending on when his birthday is, when he started kindergarten, and/or if he was held back or posibly skiped a grade or two he is either a senior in high school or just graduated recently.

I graduated last year.

Not saying we would have the RIGHT - I'm saying it doesn't make sense for her to do such things and get mad at the reaction. Its both party's fault, but the women made the decision to dress that way. If a guy walks around with his dick hanging out, by all means, fondle him - I'm sure he won't mind. Know why? Because that's why he would have his dick out, so it could be fondled. Men use logic when they dress.

*sigh* No, it is NOT both parties' fault. This should be obvious. If I wear a miniskirt and a tube top, I have not consented to be groped or harassed. I have consented only to wearing a miniskirt and a tube top, which decision has absolutely nothing to do with anyone but me. I am not "asking for it," and I am in no way whatsoever at fault if some jackass decides to harass me. That's all on him, whether I'm wearing a burqa or I'm naked or I'm anywhere in between. Assuming your argument applies to life in general, store owners are somewhat at fault when they get robbed if they made their products look appealing. And if you eat a whole pie and get sick, it's partly the pie's fault for being so tasty! It wasn't your choice to eat it - the pie MADE you do it! That pie was asking for it!

It's also pretty freaking insulting to guys to suggest that they are mindless idiots who literally cannot control their own actions if they see something pretty. "It's not my fault! She hypnotized me with the power of boobs!" Please. :rolleyes:

Nice insult. Very unwarranted though it may be.

And I simply disagree. We're at an impasse - would you like to solve this through more insults?

How many times do I have to say it? Don't want me to call you a duck? Then don't waddle and quack.

*sigh* No, it is NOT both parties' fault. This should be obvious. If I wear a miniskirt and a tube top, I have not consented to be groped or harassed. I have consented only to wearing a miniskirt and a tube top, which decision has absolutely nothing to do with anyone but me. I am not "asking for it," and I am in no way whatsoever at fault if some jackass decides to harass me. That's all on him, whether I'm wearing a burqa or I'm naked or I'm anywhere in between. Assuming your argument applies to life in general, store owners are somewhat at fault when they get robbed if they made their products look appealing. And if you eat a whole pie and get sick, it's partly the pie's fault for being so tasty! It wasn't your choice to eat it - the pie MADE you do it! That pie was asking for it!

It's also pretty freaking insulting to guys to suggest that they are mindless idiots who literally cannot control their own actions if they see something pretty. "It's not my fault! She hypnotized me with the power of boobs!" Please. :rolleyes:

Right, you SHOULDN'T be harassed or anything like that, but you know DAMN WELL that there's a good chance you will be because guys will look at you and react. You know this can happen yet you do it anyway - you accept the possibility of it happening.

If I wore a speedo I'd be ready to accept a joke at my expense because speedos look goofy as hell, it's just expected. If I wore a dress, I'd be ready for people to look at me oddly because it's not normal for me to wear a dress.

I know what can happen if I wear something - if I'm really sensitive or defensive, I won't wear those things. There's lots of stuff to where, I don't have to choose the stuff that's going to make me look like a target.


NOW, AGAIN. I'M NOT SAYING IT'S RIGHT THAT WOMEN ARE HARASSED FOR STUFF LIKE THIS, BUT - AND THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART - THEY HAVE BEEN, ARE BEING, AND WILL BE HARASSED FOR IT. That's how it is. That's how men are, unfortunately. If there was a way to solve it, I'd back it, but there's not.

How many times do I have to say it? Don't want me to call you a duck? Then don't waddle and quack.

Just as women have the right to wear certain clothes and not be harassed, I have the right to waddle and quack without being insulted.


Correct?

Uniforms for primary and secondary. No question. As for college, your own clothes. If you want to show off your pelvic region, then thats up to you, though you might get arrested for public exposure!!

Just as women have the right to wear certain clothes and not be harassed, I have the right to waddle and quack without being insulted.


Correct?
I can't believe we actually need to explain the difference between people telling you to quit being an asshole and people sexually harassing you.

If you choose to act like an asshole, you don't get to cry when people say, "Hey asshole, knock it off." If you choose to tell me that I'm dressed like a slut, despite the fact that I didn't ask for your damn opinion, then you don't get to cry about it when I tell you to mind your own damn business and grow up.

On the other hand, if you happen to like to dress in ways that I think are slutty, I don't have the right to grab your crotch just because I feel like it. That would be sexual harassment, and I don't have the right to do that to you no matter what you're wearing.

I've never called a girl a slut to her face, and never before she yelled at me for asking why she was wearing something.

Conversation:

"Hey Rebecca."
"Hey Tommy, what's up?"
"Well I'm curious. Every guy in here is staring at you."
"Yeah, I know. *smile*"
"No, I mean, because they can see way up your skirt. Look behind you real quick, you'll see about three guys bending forward slightly."
She blushes and gets angry, at me - "Who the fuck do you think you are?! Get the fuck away from me, fucking asshole."

Yes, you acted like an asshole, and you were clearly informed of it. Good for her for telling you off.


Which is when I usually walk away and collect my 5$ bet that that would happen.

Ah, so you KNEW you would get that response from her, yet you decided to do it any way? Congrats, you're an even bigger jerk than if you had done it unknowingly!


Notice I didn't insult her or say her dress was inappropriate, but I simply warned her that guys were eyeing her in places she probably wouldn't appreciate, and was retaliated against with hostility.

Why?
You knew she wouldn't respond favorably, yet you did it anyway. She expressed that she already was aware of the attention she was getting, yet you decided to make her clothing your business even though she never asked your opinion.

Learn from this. Since you clearly KNOW that women don't like when you behave that way, STOP IT. Stop acting as if you know what's good for women while they do not. Stop being so arrogant and patronizing. Mind your own business and worry about your own problems. If you don't have enough of your own problems to keep you busy, I have several charities I can put you in touch with.

I go with the not distracting. Dress codes are always a pain to enforce because it almost always comes down to the kid in question screaming how it's a draconian attack on his/her freedom of speech or expression, or pointing out how "Well the rules didn't SAY I couldn't wear X to school!"
This was exactly my complaint with dress codes when I was in school.

I had been in a school that didn't have them (and it was the '80s, so cropped tops for boys were pretty common), and then I found myself at a different school with quite a restrictive dress code.

As I saw it, I didn't really care what the dress code was as long as it was clear. A precisely written code is much easier for the kids to follow.

After spending 2 years in the school with no problems at all, I ran afoul of the dress code. It stated "no outdoor wear shall be worn to class", but didn't specify what outdoor wear was. I'd been wearing the same leather jacket to class for years, but suddenly it qualified as "outdoor wear" and was forbidden. I demanded some sort of hearing where we could pin down exactly what "outdoor wear" meant (perhaps reduce it to some sort of universal maxim), but there was no means to do that. There existed no mechanism for the students to challenge the rulings of their teachers, even when their teachers were implementing very different and sometimes openly contradictory rules. Girls were allowed to wear coloured denim jackets to the very same class where I was forbidden my leather.

It really annoyed me. I'm still angry about it.

So, if you're going to have a dress code, it needs to be written very precisely.

Right, you SHOULDN'T be harassed or anything like that, but you know DAMN WELL that there's a good chance you will be because guys will look at you and react. You know this can happen yet you do it anyway - you accept the possibility of it happening.

And when you get behind the wheel of a car, you know there is a chance that some drunken idiot will hit you. You accept the possibility of this happening when you get behind the wheel.

So when people drive drunk and hit somebody, do we say that the other driver was partly at fault for being a target on the road? What if they were driving a dull-colored car? They should have known that drunks can't see very clearly, and they should have painted their car a brighter color to avoid getting hit! Clearly they share part of the blame. :rolleyes:

Nope, sorry, it doesn't work like that. Yes, women face harassment from assholes who choose not to control themselves. No, this is not in any way the fault of the harassment victims. It is completely and totally 100% the responsibility of the assholes who choose to harass others. It is pathetic to even suggest that the victims of harassment should have to give up THEIR freedoms so that harassers will have an easier time of it.


If I wore a speedo I'd be ready to accept a joke at my expense because speedos look goofy as hell, it's just expected. If I wore a dress, I'd be ready for people to look at me oddly because it's not normal for me to wear a dress.

And that's fine. You should probably expect people to give you a few funny looks in those situations. What you do NOT have to put up with is people sexually harassing you, touching your body against your wishes, or refusing to leave you alone when you ask them to.


I know what can happen if I wear something - if I'm really sensitive or defensive, I won't wear those things. There's lots of stuff to where, I don't have to choose the stuff that's going to make me look like a target.

Nobody has the right to make you a target of sexual harassment no matter WHAT you are wearing. Yes, other humans will make comments about your clothing if it is sufficiently note-worthy. However, there is a line for acceptable conduct, and anybody who crosses it is the one who should be punished.


NOW, AGAIN. I'M NOT SAYING IT'S RIGHT THAT WOMEN ARE HARASSED FOR STUFF LIKE THIS, BUT - AND THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART - THEY HAVE BEEN, ARE BEING, AND WILL BE HARASSED FOR IT. That's how it is. That's how men are, unfortunately. If there was a way to solve it, I'd back it, but there's not.
Deeply pathetic. "Oh, men are just WIRED to harass women! That's just how it is! I guess women will just have to suck it up and take responsibility for poor, helpless, horny males! We just can't do anything about it!"

The reason this crap still goes on is because of you and people like you, and the choices that you make. You insist that men just can't be expected to act like grown ups. You insist that men can't control themselves and NOT HARASS PEOPLE. You insist that we all make excuses for pathetic creeps who insult and abuse women, because gosh-darnit they just can't stop themselves!

You seem to really love talking about how women need to "take responsibility." Well, take a good long look in the mirror. Most men don't act the way you choose to act. Most men are able to be around women and not harass them, no matter what they are wearing. The fact that a small minority of guys still act like grabby little babies is due entirely to people like YOU, who make excuses for them and tell them that it's everybody's fault except theirs.

Look at yourself with wide-open eyes. You are the face of sexual harassment. You are the face of rape culture. You are the face of misogyny. Know yourself.

Yes, you acted like an asshole, and you were clearly informed of it. Good for her for telling you off.


Ah, so you KNEW you would get that response from her, yet you decided to do it any way? Congrats, you're an even bigger jerk than if you had done it unknowingly!


You knew she wouldn't respond favorably, yet you did it anyway. She expressed that she already was aware of the attention she was getting, yet you decided to make her clothing your business even though she never asked your opinion.

Learn from this. Since you clearly KNOW that women don't like when you behave that way, STOP IT. Stop acting as if you know what's good for women while they do not. Stop being so arrogant and patronizing. Mind your own business and worry about your own problems. If you don't have enough of your own problems to keep you busy, I have several charities I can put you in touch with.

*shrugs* Fine, I'll stop letting people know when their genitals are hanging out. You can't get mad at me because you think I sexually harass women for what they wear and then turn around and get mad at me for telling women they're being sexually harassed. It makes no sense.

I THOUGHT she wouldn't respond favorably, hence the bet. That wasn't the first time a situation like that happened.

What you're telling me is that women don't care when they're exposing themselves, but they don't like the consequences of said exposing and in fact become irate when someone points it out, and it's all my fault?

Again - it makes no sense to me. I'm sorry, but maybe there is no middle ground for us to come to.

*sigh* I had a huge post written up which cussed out Bottle in various ways for misconstruing what I've said and generally ignoring a lot of the details of my posts.

I didn't post it. I calmed down. I'm still disappointed with her methods, but I don't care enough to do anything about it.

Goodbye, Bottle.

Most of the women I've talked to didn't seem to mind that every guy in the room was visually locked on either their boobs or ass.

LOOKING! NOT TOUCHING!

I have serious doubts about your credentials - you say you are close enough to women to ask if they mind guys staring at their boobs/bum, yet you are not close enough to know why women dress the way they do.

Also - earlier when you were going on about these 'sluts' 'sucking off some guy, any guy' on weekends. Well - how do you know thats what they did on the weekend.

Now I expect a vaguely intelliegent answer, and be warned - If you say they told you themselves I'll call you out as liar. There's no way a guy close enough to a girl for her to talk to him openly about who she gives blowjobs to would have such a poor understanding on women as you seem to. If you say it is from overhearing locker room talk, if you believe that then you're an even bigger sucker than you believe these girls to be.

You claim to have lots of contact with women, and the things you claim they tell you indicate you are very close to them. Yet your ignorance on why women dress the way they do shows a bizarre lack of knowlege about women, particulary for someone who claims to speak to women often and be considered really nice by women.

And why ahve you not asked your fiance? What is her insight on womens dress habits?

Just as women have the right to wear certain clothes and not be harassed, I have the right to waddle and quack without being insulted.


Correct?

Well, actually, sexual harassment is different than a couple cracks...

So, if you're going to have a dress code, it needs to be written very precisely.
Which is actually impossible to do so as A. Fashions change very fast and we kill enough trees as is. B. Students are VERY inventive. :p

Just have people cover their pelvic region. That's all we really need, when you think about it. Let them decide about the rest.

Me and a couple accquaintances were discussing this topic. Your opinion?
My opinion is make a thread with some Fucken content!
Shit, make it so!

My opinion is make a thread with some Fucken content!
Shit, make it so!

The thread doesn't need content because I do not want to slant anyone's opinions.

The thread doesn't need content because I do not want to slant anyone's opinions.
Mk.
What do all the options mean?

Mk.
What do all the options mean?

Minimums in Codes:

Option 1: Full Coverage of Person. Nothing except hands and face showing.
Option 2: Transition between options 1 and 3.
Option 3: What the US's (public school) standards are.
Option 4: Liberal interpretation of US codes. Underwear required.
Option 5: Very liberal interp. No underwear required.
Option 6: Must wear clothes covering both pelvic region and breasts. Applies to both genders.
Option 7: Cover private parts only.
Option 8: Only cover pelvic regions.
Option 9: No clothes required.
Option 10: Abstain/Not caring

I think that all schoolgirls should wear the same uniforms that Japanese schoolgirls wear. Although they would have to avoid anything with tentacles from now on and they would be ill advised to using public transportation of any kind. But other than that I don’t see anything else that can go wrong with them having to wear uniforms. :)

I think that all schoolgirls should wear the same uniforms that Japanese schoolgirls wear. Although they would have to avoid anything with tentacles from now on and they would be ill advised to using public transportation of any kind. But other than that I don’t see anything else that can go wrong with them having to wear uniforms. :)

I disagree because I feel that short* skirts are demeaning. I would feel demeaned, vulnerable, and frightened if I was forced to wear a short skirt. I'm fine with long skirts and pants, but to force girls to wear short skirts that may make them feel terribly uncomfortable and to not allow them the option of wearing a longer skirt or pants seems discriminatory to me.

*To clarify, I consider a short skirt anything that does not almost reach the shoes. A little bit above the ankles is a good length.

I disagree because I feel that short* skirts are demeaning. I would feel demeaned, vulnerable, and frightened if I was forced to wear a short skirt. I'm fine with long skirts and pants, but to force girls to wear short skirts that may make them feel terribly uncomfortable and to not allow them the option of wearing a longer skirt or pants seems discriminatory to me.

*To clarify, I consider a short skirt anything that does not almost reach the shoes. A little bit above the ankles is a good length.

If a short skirt reaches the ankles then how long is a long skirt?!

If a short skirt reaches the ankles then how long is a long skirt?!

No, I meant that a skirt reaching the ankles would be a good length for a skirt, not a short skirt. I'd probably consider knee-length a good length for a short skirt, although I still wouldn't wear one that short.

in an effort appease all muslims, all women will be required to cover themselves from head to toe. we will go the extra step in also covering their eyes with a one way visor.

males will also have to stay mostly covered and will no longer be allowed to wear shorts.

I disagree because I feel that short* skirts are demeaning. I would feel demeaned, vulnerable, and frightened if I was forced to wear a short skirt. I'm fine with long skirts and pants, but to force girls to wear short skirts that may make them feel terribly uncomfortable and to not allow them the option of wearing a longer skirt or pants seems discriminatory to me.

*To clarify, I consider a short skirt anything that does not almost reach the shoes. A little bit above the ankles is a good length.

Well to clarify the whole concept of having them wear the Japanese school uniforms is to give perverts like me something to look at. We don’t care much about the feelings of others and in some cases we are turned on by their shyness. :)

Just as women have the right to wear certain clothes and not be harassed


Except that that is the OPPOSITE of what you argued my little duck.

Well to clarify the whole concept of having them wear the Japanese school uniforms is to give perverts like me something to look at. We don’t care much about the feelings of others and in some cases we are turned on by their shyness. :)

That's not very considerate. That's one reason why I see skirts as demeaning. No one should be able to see any of my skin except for my face, hands, and forearms.

Even if their shyness causes them to become ill and makes them almost throw up?

That's not very considerate. That's one reason why I see skirts as demeaning. No one should be able to see any of my skin except for my face, hands, and forearms.

Even if their shyness causes them to become ill and makes them almost throw up?

You do know he is joking yes? (Or i think he is)

You do know he is joking yes? (Or i think he is)

I wasn't sure whether or not he was joking.

That's not very considerate.

Nobody ever said we perverts were :)


Even if their shyness causes them to become ill and makes them almost throw up?

Perhaps you need an education on just how perverted some people can be

Lesson 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emetophilia)
Lesson 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figging)
Lesson 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_steamer)

...need I go on?

Although I doubt that wearing short skirts will bring people to the state of anything near vomiting.

I wasn't sure whether or not he was joking.

The thing about me is that you never can tell :)

Nobody ever said we perverts were :)




Perhaps you need an education on just how perverted some people can be

Lesson 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emetophilia)
Lesson 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figging)
Lesson 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_steamer)

...need I go on?

Although I doubt that wearing short skirts will bring people to the state of anything near vomiting.

Those are really gross.

I got nauseous once because I had to wear a short dress for swing choir, and it lasted for about I day after that. I felt like I was going to throw up, and it felt awful having to wear such a short dress.


The thing about me is that you never can tell :)

So were you joking?

I got nauseous once because I had to wear a short dress for swing choir, and it lasted for about I day after that. I felt like I was going to throw up, and it felt awful having to wear such a short dress.

Well that just makes you odd, not that there's anything wrong with being odd. :)




So were you joking?

I would prefer to keep you guessing on that regard :)

Well that just makes you odd, not that there's anything wrong with being odd.

I've gotten nauseous from just being around people, but it's better now that I don't have that class anymore.

I would prefer to keep you guessing on that regard

Why?

terrible poll.

Why?

Because that's just the way I am :)

terrible poll.

I clarified the options.

Option 1: Full Coverage of Person. Nothing except hands and face showing.
Option 2: Transition between options 1 and 3.
Option 3: What the US's (public school) standards are.
Option 4: Liberal interpretation of US codes. Underwear required.
Option 5: Very liberal interp. No underwear required.
Option 6: Must wear clothes covering both pelvic region and breasts. Applies to both genders.
Option 7: Cover private parts only.
Option 8: Only cover pelvic regions.
Option 9: No clothes required.
Option 10: Abstain/Not caring

It still lacks a separate option for Japanese style uniforms

It still lacks a separate option for Japanese style uniforms

Mini skirts FTW

As a twelve year old British nerd (I'm such a nerd I wrote an aggressive nerd pride song in German to the tune of the Deutschlandlied), my personal opinion is the ever useful Sweet Fanny Adams. If you're a naturist, sure, come to school that way. But as others have said, don't get all angry when people stare, and don't ask me to do it! Same applies to burquas, revealing stuff, Waffen-SS uniforms...

On the whole "slut" debate a few pages ago, I stick by my previous response of sweet fanny adams. If a girl wants to dress in a certain way, she can dress in a certain way. If guys start feeling her, it's his fault. And on the "unpopular" aspect of it, I'm not genuinly bullied or fully sexually mature by a long shot, but I personally think that if girls I'm physically attracted to can't cope with a guy whos abs aren't immediately apparent and who reads history books for recreation, I'll find some who can. If I'm planning to get into a commited relationship with someone, mental compatibility is more important.

As a twelve year old British nerd (I'm such a nerd I wrote an aggressive nerd pride song in German to the tune of the Deutschlandlied), my personal opinion is the ever useful Sweet Fanny Adams. If you're a naturist, sure, come to school that way. But as others have said, don't get all angry when people stare, and don't ask me to do it! Same applies to burquas, revealing stuff, Waffen-SS uniforms...

On the whole "slut" debate a few pages ago, I stick by my previous response of sweet fanny adams. If a girl wants to dress in a certain way, she can dress in a certain way. If guys start feeling her, it's his fault. And on the "unpopular" aspect of it, I'm not genuinly bullied or fully sexually mature by a long shot, but I personally think that if girls I'm physically attracted to can't cope with a guy whos abs aren't immediately apparent and who reads history books for recreation, I'll find some who can. If I'm planning to get into a commited relationship with someone, mental compatibility is more important.

I agree with you. Although I don't really find people physically attractive, the closest feelings I get to attraction are when I think, "Wow, he's so smart!" or something like that. I don't think I'd ever go out with someone who wasn't at least my intellectual equal, although I'd probably prefer someone smarter than me, which narrows down the options significantly. And if no one ever likes me or notices me because I don't reveal any more skin than is necessary and I don't consider myself to be at all attractive, then so be it. I am and can be happy alone, probably happier than I ever would be if someone ever liked me.:)

I agree with you. Although I don't really find people physically attractive, the closest feelings I get to attraction are when I think, "Wow, he's so smart!" or something like that. I don't think I'd ever go out with someone who wasn't at least my intellectual equal, although I'd probably prefer someone smarter than me, which narrows down the options significantly. And if no one ever likes me or notices me because I don't reveal any more skin than is necessary and I don't consider myself to be at all attractive, then so be it. I am and can be happy alone, probably happier than I ever would be if someone ever liked me.:)

Thanks. I wish there were people like you in my school. But one thing you said has reminded me of something that really bugs me: all adults seem to asume that I want to be popular, even at the expense of my ability to read books, play computer games, wear what I want to... to be me. I was born a nerd. I simply have no idea what to say in conversation. I don't know how to stand as I say things. I can never prevent myself from joking about things those around me won't understand. To resent it would be as immature as resenting being born ugly, and to change it would be to change myself, which I'm not prepared to do.

To resent it would be as immature as resenting being born ugly, and to change it would be to change myself, which I'm not prepared to do.

Why are you not prepared to change your awkwardness in social settings?

Thanks. I wish there were people like you in my school. But one thing you said has reminded me of something that really bugs me: all adults seem to asume that I want to be popular, even at the expense of my ability to read books, play computer games, wear what I want to... to be me. I was born a nerd. I simply have no idea what to say in conversation. I don't know how to stand as I say things. I can never prevent myself from joking about things those around me won't understand. To resent it would be as immature as resenting being born ugly, and to change it would be to change myself, which I'm not prepared to do.

You're right. I pretty much feel the same way, and I'm sorry that people are trying to pressure you into not being yourself. That's a rather familiar feeling.

To resent it would be as immature as resenting being born ugly, and to change it would be to change myself, which I'm not prepared to do.


Why are you not prepared to change your awkwardness in social settings?

Why should Nova Boozia have to change. Some people are not "people people" and don't want to be. As long as they are happy with the way they are it hurts no one (and they will change on thier on as they meet people that they can relate to)

Myself I was virtualy unknown to my classmates until I was in the 11th grade and I was very happy that way. I found my way to be less awkward and have done fine both before and after. It will come in its own time and can't/shouldn't be forced or it can/will go badly

Why should Nova Boozia have to change. Some people are not "people people" and don't want to be. As long as they are happy with the way they are it hurts no one (and they will change on thier on as they meet people that they can relate to)

Myself I was virtualy unknown to my classmates until I was in the 11th grade and I was very happy that way. I found my way to be less awkward and have done fine both before and after. It will come in its own time and can't/shouldn't be forced or it can/will go badly

Graaaaaaave Dig

It still lacks a separate option for Japanese style uniforms

That would fall under 3... I guess.

Yes, because girls couldn't possibly be wearing short skirts for any reason other than that they want to be sexually harassed. And we can't possibly teach boys to, you know, NOT TOUCH other people against their wishes.

Because males cannot be expected to keep their hands to themselves, females should be forced to adhere to special dress codes. Females are responsible for the behavior of males, and thus should be forced to dress how we want them to dress or shut up when they are harassed.

I also like how this is so uni-directional. Nothing a boy wears will ever make him automatically deserving of harassment or abuse, but girls are a whole other story. Boys are "horny" and want to harass girls, so they should be allowed to harass girls who we decide are "whores" or "slutty" based on the clothing they wear. Yet, even though boys are the ones behaving rudely and inappropriately in this situation, it's the girls who bear all the responsibility and who are the target of the insults. They're "whores" for wearing certain clothes, but the boys who harass girls...we don't even HAVE a derisive word for them. Because they're just being boys, right?

And people wonder why rape is so common in the Western world. Sheesh.

Yes but horny boys touching girls is natural, wearing certain clothes is not. (wearing any clothes is not for that matter)
Besides the boys could be doing worse things.

Yes but horny boys touching girls is natural, wearing certain clothes is not. (wearing any clothes is not for that matter)

Horny boys touching girls against their wishes is as natural as murder, rape, and theft. You really want to go there?


Besides the boys could be doing worse things.
Well gosh, when you put it that way! I guess it's fine for boys to grope unwilling girls, since they're being so nice by refraining from raping and murdering the little hussies!

I had no idea there were so many man-haters on this forum. How does it feel, guys, to know that you're just pathetic animals who enjoy touching girls when they don't want you to? How does it feel to know that you get off on abusing other human beings because that kind of thing is "natural" for all men?

Remember, it's not the feminists telling you this stuff, it's the manly men who insist that all men like to violate unwilling women. It's not the feminists telling you that you're mindless penises who are too stupid to recognize when you're not wanted, it's the manly men. How does that feel?

Horny boys touching girls against their wishes is as natural as murder, rape, and theft. You really want to go there?


Well gosh, when you put it that way! I guess it's fine for boys to grope unwilling girls, since they're being so nice by refraining from raping and murdering the little hussies!

I had no idea there were so many man-haters on this forum. How does it feel, guys, to know that you're just pathetic animals who enjoy touching girls when they don't want you to? How does it feel to know that you get off on abusing other human beings because that kind of thing is "natural" for all men?

Remember, it's not the feminists telling you this stuff, it's the manly men who insist that all men like to violate unwilling women. It's not the feminists telling you that you're mindless penises who are too stupid to recognize when you're not wanted, it's the manly men. How does that feel?

ummm... O.O that's rather over the top. I didn't say that obviously we aren't mindless penises or we'd have no restraint. I never said we're pathetic animals and I never said we're mindless or stupid. I said it is natural, there is a reason as to why they do it. Besides the way some of these girls act the boys would not know what to believe.

Remember, it's not the feminists telling you this stuff, it's the manly men who insist that all men like to violate unwilling women. It's not the feminists telling you that you're mindless penises who are too stupid to recognize when you're not wanted, it's the manly men. How does that feel?

Actually, it's both.

Oh, and will you please put on this plaid skirt, Bottle? :p

ummm... O.O that's rather over the top. I didn't say that obviously we aren't mindless penises or we'd have no restraint. I never said that I said it is natural there is a valid reason as to why boys do it. Besides the way some of these girls act the boys would not know what to believe.

Dude, put down the shovel and walk away from the hole.

Never! *digs to the earth's core and is incinerated* -.-

That would fall under 3... I guess.

Nope, it needs it's own option :)

Actually, it's both.

Oh, and will you please put on this plaid skirt, Bottle? :p

Lemme alter that a sec

*Cuts skirt a little shorter*

Now wear it... :p



------------------------


No option for Japanese uniforms!!!!!!!

Bumping
Underused
Mega
Post

Guys should be allowed to wear skirts too. Otherwise its discriminatory, wrong and bad

That is not what is being argued here...

i know...but i was bored and wanted to say it. And the topic was about uniforms...so a big fat MEH!

Don't get me started on my UK high school uniform rules - you wouldn't believe me anyway if i told you them.

Don't get me started on my UK high school uniform rules - you wouldn't believe me anyway if i told you them.

Go on; how bad could they be?

Go on; how bad could they be?

I don't have any.

No restrictions! ever!:gundge:

I think people should be allowed to show up naked if they want.


At college, actually, I'm not sure, but I don't think anyone would stop you from going to class in the buff.

"These uniforms are lame!" "Y'know man - if we're gonna have uniforms, man then we should all have something different, y'know?" - Tommy Chong, Up In Smoke

ok. but you seriously won't believe me.

According to the school rules.
First of all we have these uniform tokens that you recieve if you pass an 8 point uniform check. This is once a week. You need 21 tokens to go to the prom or go on school trips.
Teachers are supposed to make you stand up before every class and check your uniform before you can sit down. This happens again before you leave the room.

Students must have, at all times-
*white school (full size) shirts tucked in
*top buttons done up
*ties correct length and width and done all the way up - clip on ties now cumpulsary
*shirt sleeves done up and full length
*correct black school shoes
*correct trousers or long skirt
*no visible underwear
*no large belt buckles
*one watch or a single stud earring is permitted - no other jewelry
*no out of school coats or clothes- they will be confiscated for the rest of the term
*sensible hairstyle
*make up is not allowed untill year 11

Of course - Few of the rules are followed or enforced by teachers - however there are some die hard SS like teachers who would kill anyone who doesn't. It's rather ironic how the teachers enforcing it constantly break the rules by wearing large jewelry and other dispicable objects like... rings.

If you don't believe me or have other feelings on the matter then send your messages to this link (office@bramhallhigh.com)

snip

Damn, your school sucks.

yup :( - why not email them and tell them

ok. but you seriously won't believe me.

According to the school rules.
First of all we have these uniform tokens that you recieve if you pass an 8 point uniform check. This is once a week. You need 21 tokens to go to the prom or go on school trips.
Teachers are supposed to make you stand up before every class and check your uniform before you can sit down. This happens again before you leave the room.

Students must have, at all times-
*white school (full size) shirts tucked in
*top buttons done up
*ties correct length and width and done all the way up - clip on ties now cumpulsary
*shirt sleeves done up and full length
*correct black school shoes
*correct trousers or long skirt
*no visible underwear
*no large belt buckles
*one watch or a single stud earring is permitted - no other jewelry
*no out of school coats or clothes- they will be confiscated for the rest of the term
*sensible hairstyle
*make up is not allowed untill year 11

Of course - Few of the rules are followed or enforced by teachers - however there are some die hard SS like teachers who would kill anyone who doesn't. It's rather ironic how the teachers enforcing it constantly break the rules by wearing large jewelry and other dispicable objects like... rings.

If you don't believe me or have other feelings on the matter then send your messages to this link (office@bramhallhigh.com)

Man, your school's dress code is horrible. I hope it's a private school...