NationStates Jolt Archive


It's going to be hard to get Iraqi forces to stop the death squads...

PsychoticDan
04-10-2006, 19:29
...when Iraqi forces ARE the death squads. You'll notice the probe into teh police was lead by Americans - begging the question, "would there be a probe if it weren't for the Americans?"

The place is falling apart and it looks just pathetic. Like we're just stading there like a deer in teh headlights haveing lost all control of the situation. We either need to send 400,000 troops there, re-occupy it neighborhood by neighborhood and lock the place down, rebuild all of the infrastructure - electrical, transportation, all the schools, etc... or just get out. What we're doing now is pathetic.

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraqi authorities have taken a brigade of up to 700 policemen out of service and put members under investigation for “possible complicity” with death squads following a mass kidnapping earlier this week, the U.S. military said Wednesday.

Meanwhile, a series of bombs went off in rapid succession in a shopping district in a mainly Christian neighborhood of Baghdad, killing 16 people and wounding 87, police said. The dead were among 26 people killed in attacks across Iraq.

The U.S. military also announced the death of two soldiers — the latest in what has been one of the bloodiest stretches of days for American troops this year. Officials in Baghdad said that 18 American troops have been killed over the past four days, including eight U.S. soldiers who died in gunbattles and bomb blasts Monday in Baghdad — the most killed in a single day in the capital since July 2005.

The Iraqi police officers were decommissioned following a kidnapping Sunday when gunmen stormed a frozen food plant in the Amil district, abducted 24 workers and shot two others. The bodies of seven of the workers were found hours later but the fate of the others remains unknown.

‘Clear evidence of complicity’
During a briefing with reporters, Maj. Gen. William Caldwell said there is “clear evidence of complicity with deaths squads” operating in northwest Baghdad. Evidence indicates members of the police’s 8th Brigade were permitting deaths squads to move freely or the police did not respond rapidly enough to reports of deaths squad attacks.

Technically, the police squad is being pulled off the streets for “retraining,” and they will be interrogated, criminal background checks will be conducted in the course of the investigation, NBC News reported.

The action appeared aimed at signaling a new seriousness in tackling police collusion with militias at a time when the government is under increased pressure to put an end to the Shiite-Sunni violence that has killed thousands this year and threatened to tear Iraq apart.

Sunni leaders blamed Shiite militias for the kidnapping and suggested security forces had turned a blind eye to the attack.

“There was some possible complicity in allowing death squad elements to move freely when they should have been impeding them,” Caldwell told a Baghdad news conference. “The forces in the unit have not put their full allegiance to the government of Iraq and gave their allegiance to others,” he said.

Unit commander detained
He said problems with the unit had emerged during a broad brigade-by-brigade assessment of police in Baghdad led by the U.S. military.

The suspended brigade has about 650-700 police, said Interior Ministry spokesman Lt. Col. Karim Mohammedawi.

The Iraqi Interior Ministry said Tuesday that the commander of the unit, a lieutenant colonel, had been detained for investigation and the major general who commands the battalion that includes the brigade had been suspended temporarily and ordered transferred.

Brig. Abdul-Karim Khalaf, the chief ministry spokesman, said a random selection of troops in the suspended unit were being investigated for ties to militias.

Sunni leaders have frequently charged that Shiite militiamen have infiltrated the Shiite-led police forces and have accused police of helping or allowing their attacks.

On Monday, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki announced a new security plan aimed at putting an end to sectarian violence and uniting the feuding Shiite and Sunni parties in his government.

There's more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15124922/
Szanth
04-10-2006, 19:35
Jesus fuck, we're fucked. Fuck.
Farnhamia
04-10-2006, 19:38
Why is anyone surprised?
Szanth
04-10-2006, 19:43
Why is anyone surprised?

I'm not, really, I just like saying "fuck", and stating the obvious at the same time.
Farnhamia
04-10-2006, 19:45
I'm not, really, I just like saying "fuck", and stating the obvious at the same time.

Oh, okay. :D
Sumamba Buwhan
04-10-2006, 19:50
why doesnt anyone ever think of the obvious?

all one needs to do to keep these guys in line is take each one privately and give them date rape drugs... make a video of them having sex with another man and then when they are sober, show them the video and tell them that if they ever find that there is any misconduct by them that the video shall be released.


sheesh
Szanth
04-10-2006, 19:51
why doesnt anyone ever think of the obvious?

all one needs to do to keep these guys in line is take each one privately and give them date rape drugs... make a video of them having sex with another man and then when they are sober, show them the video and tell them that if they ever find that there is any misconduct by them that the video shall be released.


sheesh

Damned good idea. Fuck.
Secret aj man
05-10-2006, 03:05
why doesnt anyone ever think of the obvious?

all one needs to do to keep these guys in line is take each one privately and give them date rape drugs... make a video of them having sex with another man and then when they are sober, show them the video and tell them that if they ever find that there is any misconduct by them that the video shall be released.


sheesh

we could have congressman(ex)foley in charge of that operation....operation full of shit hypocrite seems an appropriate name.

could apply to all sides...love your idea!
Congo--Kinshasa
05-10-2006, 03:08
we could have congressman(ex)foley in charge of that operation....operation full of shit hypocrite seems an appropriate name.

could apply to all sides...love your idea!

ROFL
PsychoticDan
05-10-2006, 16:23
we could have congressman(ex)foley in charge of that operation....operation full of shit hypocrite seems an appropriate name.

could apply to all sides...love your idea!

Gotta get him some Iraqi IM addy's pronto. You wouldn't even have to do anything after that, just let the chips fall where they may.


pscyhodan: are you jacking it?
Demented Hamsters
05-10-2006, 16:30
Good thing Iraq isn't in the midst of a civil war right now. Cause if it was, this would just totally screw it.
PsychoticDan
05-10-2006, 16:32
Good thing Iraq isn't in the midst of a civil war right now. Cause if it was, this would just totally screw it.

I know. Luckily, the Mission was Accomplished two years ago.
Demented Hamsters
05-10-2006, 16:35
We need to stay the course, otherwise we're just aiding the terrorists.

Damn liberal media dragging up this just before the mid-terms!


But Clinton got a headjob of a chubby intern!


etc etc etc

feel free to add your own.
PsychoticDan
05-10-2006, 16:49
We need to stay the course, otherwise we're just aiding the terrorists.

Damn liberal media dragging up this just before the mid-terms!


But Clinton got a headjob of a chubby intern!


etc etc etc

feel free to add your own.

Okay, how's this:


Gotta smoke the evildoers our of their holes! Freedom is on the march! Smoke the freedom holes out of the evildoers! Bring it on!
Daemonocracy
05-10-2006, 17:15
...when Iraqi forces ARE the death squads. You'll notice the probe into teh police was lead by Americans - begging the question, "would there be a probe if it weren't for the Americans?"

The place is falling apart and it looks just pathetic. Like we're just stading there like a deer in teh headlights haveing lost all control of the situation. We either need to send 400,000 troops there, re-occupy it neighborhood by neighborhood and lock the place down, rebuild all of the infrastructure - electrical, transportation, all the schools, etc... or just get out. What we're doing now is pathetic.



There's more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15124922/

One of the problems with what is going on in Iraq is posts like this where everyone focuses solely on the negative and screams the sky is falling. Things arre tough, we get it, but there is a glimmer of hope. There is a reason why a big majority of soldiers re-enlist to continue their work, they have seen real results and have hope.

Infrastructure IS being rebuilt in Iraq. Schools, hospitals, roads, sewage systems, electricticity, etc. are all being restored at a steady pace and are either at or have surpassed pre-war levels.

There is a working democracy in Iraq, a fledgling democracy which struggles, but a working one elected by the people nonetheless.

Kurdistan is flourishing and Southern Iraq is quite peaceful, it is a select number of provinces in the Sunni Triangle which are troublesome, some in or near outright Anarchy.

Yes troop levels are low and were too low to begin with. Yes the defense deapartment and state department can not seem to get on the same page which further aggravates the problem and yes the country is in danger of entering a Civil War, but the fact remains that most people in Iraq DO NOT want a civil war, will do what they can to prevent one and actually want the Americans to stay.

There is alot that is just F***** up about this whole situation but damnit, for all the negativity I see from individuals or from the media like MSNBC....rarely if ever do I see the slightest modicum of constructiveness to the criticism. No solutions, no suggestions, just outright bitching and sensationalism.

The fact is were in there and we have to succeed. Once you're in, you're in and even if we "cut and run", the war will follow us back home. Hell, we have been a target since before this war.

Things were alot worse in WWI. Hell, America really had no business being in WWI and even in hindsight it can be argued we should not have gotten involved.

Oh and for the record, I personally feel Iraq should be broken up into 3 separate regions. the unnantural borders of Iraq itself were created after Europe carved up the Middle East for themselves. Just like in Africa. Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites really shouldn't be living together. It would send a great message if America succeeded and showed they were able to...but Americans can't keep dying for them if they refuse to help themselves.
PsychoticDan
05-10-2006, 17:43
One of the problems with what is going on in Iraq is posts like this where everyone focuses solely on the negative and screams the sky is falling. Things arre tough, we get it, but there is a glimmer of hope. There is a reason why a big majority of soldiers re-enlist to continue their work, they have seen real results and have hope.

Infrastructure IS being rebuilt in Iraq. Schools, hospitals, roads, sewage systems, electricticity, etc. are all being restored at a steady pace and are either at or have surpassed pre-war levels. back that up. I have read article after article about how Iraqis are rationin gfuel in an oil rich nation, have intermittant at best electricity and having schools does you no good when you're afraid to send your children there.

There is a working democracy in Iraq, a fledgling democracy which struggles, but a working one elected by the people nonetheless.Which the administration's own intelligence 5eport calls a "failed state" and which, as this article points out, are often responsible for the death squads themselves.

Kurdistan is flourishing and Southern Iraq is quite peaceful, it is a select number of provinces in the Sunni Triangle which are troublesome, some in or near outright Anarchy.Which also happens to be the capital and where the largest segments of the Iraqi population come together.

Yes troop levels are low and were too low to begin with.No shit. Yes the defense deapartment and state department can not seem to get on the same page which further aggravates the problemNo shit. and yes the country is in danger of entering a Civil War,C'mon. It is in civil war. but the fact remains that most people in Iraq DO NOT want a civil war, will do what they can to prevent one and actually want the Americans to stay.Most of the people in every civil war do not want one and they overwhelmingly want us to leave. This is what happens when you substitue Sean Hannity for news.

There is alot that is just F***** up about this whole situation but damnit, for all the negativity I see from individuals or from the media like MSNBC....rarely if ever do I see the slightest modicum of constructiveness to the criticism. No solutions, no suggestions, just outright bitching and sensationalism.Because the situation is hopelessly fucked up and to protray it in any other light is not responsible journalism. And there have been all kinds of suggestion as to how to better run this war but, as can be seen in this thread:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=501932

...the Bush administration has ignored it out of ignorance and arrogance everytime.

The fact is were in there and we have to succeed.

Well, that will require a new administration. On that isn't stupid and arrogant.

In anycase, since that is yoru stand I have a quote for you:

If a path to the better there be, it begins with a full look at the worst.So maybe you should rethink your whole, "Why keep reporting bad news?" ethic.


Once you're in, you're in and even if we "cut and run", the war will follow us back home. Hell, we have been a target since before this war.And acording to the admin's intelligence reports, mores so since the war.

Things were alot worse in WWI.Well since we're alomst in Iraq as long as we were in WWII now, how so? []quote] Hell, America really had no business being in WWI and even in hindsight it can be argued we should not have gotten involved.[/quote]Something tells me hindsight will say that about this war, too.

Oh and for the record, I personally feel Iraq should be broken up into 3 separate regions. the unnantural borders of Iraq itself were created after Europe carved up the Middle East for themselves. Just like in Africa. Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites really shouldn't be living together.Sounds like you're infinately more educated about the region than this administration. That's not sarcasm, I really mean that.It would send a great message if America succeeded and showed they were able to...but Americans can't keep dying for them if they refuse to help themselves.

On that we agree. Probably should have thought about all that before we invaded, though.