NationStates Jolt Archive


The machines are taking over!

Rhaomi
04-10-2006, 18:33
Voting machines, that is.

I'm usually not given to conspiracy theories, but Diebold's electronic voting machines are really starting to scare me. Check out what Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold_Election_Systems) had to say about the issue (emphasis added):

Jeff Dean, Senior Vice-President and Senior Programmer at Global Election Systems (GES), the company purchased by Diebold in 2002 which became Diebold Election Systems, was convicted of 23 counts of felony theft for planting back doors in software he created for ATMs using, according to court documents, a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection over a period of two years.[1] In addition to Dean, GES employed a number of other convicted felons in senior positions, including a fraudulent securities trader and a drug trafficker.[2]

In December 2005, Diebold's CEO Wally O'Dell left the company following reports that the company was facing securities fraud litigation surrounding charges of insider trading. [3]

In August 2003, Walden O'Dell, chief executive of Diebold, announced that he had been a top fund-raiser for President George W. Bush and had sent a get-out-the-funds letter to Ohio Republicans. In the letters he says he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year." Critics of Diebold interpreted this as implying that he might rig the company's electronic voting machines to give an unfair advantage to Bush. The letter also was seen as an indication of a perceived conflict of interest by critics.

DES claims its systems provide strong immunity to ballot tampering and other vote rigging attempts. These claims have been challenged, notably by Bev Harris on her website, Blackboxvoting.org, and book by the same name. Harris and C. D. Sludge, an Internet journalist, both claim there is also evidence that the Diebold systems have been exploited to tamper with American elections — a claim Harris expands in her book Black Box Voting. Sludge further cites Votewatch for evidence that suggests a pattern of compromised voting machine exploits throughout the 1990s, and specifically involving the Diebold machines in the 2002 election. DES has also come under fire for the recent discovery that the Diebold voting machines do not and did not in 2004 meet the Help America Vote Act (HAVA) error standard.

Avi Rubin, Professor of Computer Science at Johns Hopkins University and Technical Director of the Information Security Institute has analyzed the source code used in these voting machines and reports "this voting system is far below even the most minimal security standards applicable in other contexts." [4] Following the publication of this paper, the State of Maryland hired Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) to perform another analysis of the Diebold voting machines. SAIC concluded “[t]he system, as implemented in policy, procedure, and technology, is at high risk of compromise.” [5]

In June 2005, the Tallahassee Democrat reported that when given access to Diebold vote-counting computers, Bev Harris- a critic of Diebold's voting machines - was able to make 65,000 votes disappear simply by changing the memory card that stores voting results for one that had been altered. Although the machines are supposed to record changes to data stored in the system, they showed no record of tampering after the memory cards were swapped. In response, a spokesperson for the Department of State said that, "Information on a blog site is not viable or credible." [6]

In early 2006 the Diebold Election Systems subsidiary came under considerable fire from alternate media sources for creating voting systems without reasonable auditing, no paper trail, security holes, and software bugs. The attention negatively affected Diebold stock (though elections are only a small part of their business) and triggered investigations in several states after insiders revealed irregular practices in Diebold's election division. Diebold was the first major vendor to experience a serious backlash from poor quality, service and preparation in the election industry, and condemnation of Diebold helped to focus attention on other vendors (ES&S). According to Avi Rubin, the Johns Hopkins University computer science professor who first identified flaws in the technology in 2003, the machines are "much, much easier to attack than anything we've previously said... On a scale of one to 10, if the problems we found before were a six, this is a 10. It's a totally different ballgame." According to Rubin, the system is intentionally designed so that anyone with access can update the machine software, without a pass code or other security protocol. Diebold officials said that although any problem can be avoided by keeping a close watch on the machines, they are developing a fix. [2] Michael I. Shamos, a professor of computer science at Carnegie Mellon University who is a proponent of electronic voting and the examiner of electronic voting systems for Pennsylvania, stated "It's the most severe security flaw ever discovered in a voting system." Douglas W. Jones, a professor of computer science at the University of Iowa, stated "This is the barn door being wide open, while people were arguing over the lock on the front door." Diebold spokesman David Bear decried the seriousness of the situation, asserting that "For there to be a problem here, you're basically assuming a premise where you have some evil and nefarious election officials who would sneak in and introduce a piece of software. I don't believe these evil elections people exist."[3]

On 31 July 2006 the Open Voting Foundation released a press release which explains, with photographs, how to open the case with a screwdriver and alter the boot configuration of the Diebold TS so as to boot from EPROM, on-board flash memory or external flash memory. The implication is that a previously tested and certified machine could be booted using an unauthorised boot profile, and that such a boot profile could be activated with relatively little technical expertise. [4]

In September 2003, a large number of internal Diebold memos, dating back to mid-2001, were posted to the Web by the website organizations Why War? and the Swarthmore Coalition for the Digital Commons, a group of student activists at Swarthmore College. Congressman Kucinich (D-OH) has placed portions of the files on his websites.[5] Diebold's critics believe that these memos reflect badly on Diebold's voting machines and business practices. For example: "Do not to offer damaging opinions of our systems, even when their failings become obvious."[6] In December 2003, an internal Diebold memo was leaked to the press, sparking controversy in Maryland. Maryland officials requested that Diebold add the functionality of printing voting receipts. The leaked memo said, "As a business, I hope we're smart enough to charge them up the wazoo [for this feature]".

In January and February of 2004, a whistleblower named Stephen Heller brought to light memos from Jones Day, Diebold's California attorneys, informing Diebold that they were in breach of California law by continuing to use illegal and uncertified software in California voting machines. California Attorney General Bill Lockyer filed civil and criminal suits against the company, which were dropped when Diebold settled out of court for $2.6 million. In February 2006, Heller was charged with three felonies for this action.[7]

Ohio State Senator Jeff Jacobson, Republican, asked Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell in July, 2003 to disqualify Diebold's bid to supply voting machines for the state, after security problems were discovered in its software [8], but was refused. Blackwell had ordered Diebold touch screen voting machines, reversing an earlier decision by the state to purchase only optical scan voting machines which, unlike the touch screen devices, would leave a "paper trail" for recount purposes. Blackwell was found in April 2006, to own 83 shares of Diebold stock, down from 178 shares purchased in January 2005, which he attributed to an unidentified financial manager at Credit Suisse First Boston who had violated his instructions to avoid potential conflict of interest, without his knowledge. [9] When Cuyahoga county's primary was held on May 2, 2006, officials ordered the hand-counting of more than 18,000 paper ballots after Diebold's new optical scan machines produced inconsistent tabulations, leaving several local races in limbo for days and eventually resulting in a reversal of the outcome of one race for state representative. Blackwell ordered an investigation by the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections; Ohio Democrats demanded that Blackwell, who is also the Republican gubernatorial candidate in this election, recuse himself from the investigation due to conflicts of interest, but Blackwell has not done so.[10]

Sources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold_Election_Systems#Notes)
Siap
04-10-2006, 18:35
Oh dear.
Zilam
04-10-2006, 18:37
:eek: I knew something smelt fishy. And I thought it was that group of girls that just walked by. :p
Not bad
04-10-2006, 19:30
A full report on the security issues researched identified and reported to diebold for their paperless electronic voting machines. Princeton University is the source of the paper but Princeton's involvement may only be that they host the document. They published a how-to manual on making an atomic bomb, why not one on hacking voting machines too. Reckless Tigers.

http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/ts-paper.pdf
Dosuun
05-10-2006, 07:53
They published a how-to manual on making an atomic bomb, why not one on hacking voting machines too.
Gun-type or compression? What fuel do they recomend? Is a delivery system also described?
...
Don't give me that look. I've already made mock nukes, all they lack is fuel and convential explosives. I just want to compare notes.

Yes, I am that white and nerdy.:D

As for the topic, if your candidate doesn't win, blame the voting machines! It couldn't possibly be that the opposition got more people to vote for them, it must be a vast conspiracy!

I'm not saying that this company is perfect, but a conspiracy theory?
Anglachel and Anguirel
05-10-2006, 08:07
Gun-type or compression? What fuel do they recomend? Is a delivery system also described?
...
Don't give me that look. I've already made mock nukes, all they lack is fuel and convential explosives. I just want to compare notes.

Yes, I am that white and nerdy.:D

As for the topic, if your candidate doesn't win, blame the voting machines! It couldn't possibly be that the opposition got more people to vote for them, it must be a vast conspiracy!

I'm not saying that this company is perfect, but a conspiracy theory?
Conspiracy? Dear God yes! I swear to you, one of the officers of Diebold said, shortly before the 2004 election, that he would do "whatever it took" to get Bush into office. Seriously, you don't even have to read between the lines.
Rhaomi
05-10-2006, 08:31
As for the topic, if your candidate doesn't win, blame the voting machines! It couldn't possibly be that the opposition got more people to vote for them, it must be a vast conspiracy!

I'm not saying that this company is perfect, but a conspiracy theory?

Maybe the bold text wasn't glaring enough. Let me summarize:

Diebold is a corrupt business with obvious GOP ties that sells easily-exploitable voting machines which it refuses to fix or even admit are flawed.

Get it now?
CanuckHeaven
05-10-2006, 09:07
Gun-type or compression? What fuel do they recomend? Is a delivery system also described?
...
Don't give me that look. I've already made mock nukes, all they lack is fuel and convential explosives. I just want to compare notes.

Yes, I am that white and nerdy.:D

As for the topic, if your candidate doesn't win, blame the voting machines! It couldn't possibly be that the opposition got more people to vote for them, it must be a vast conspiracy!

I'm not saying that this company is perfect, but a conspiracy theory?
You haven't been paying attention have you?

http://www.nogw.com/images/odd.jpg

There are enough links on this web site (http://www.nogw.com/electionfraud.html)to sink a battleship!!
CanuckHeaven
05-10-2006, 09:20
The following video was posted in a thread a few months ago:

Shocking election-theft testimony (http://alternet.org/blogs/video/40755/)

Get smart America.......ask for paper ballots for elections!!
Boonytopia
05-10-2006, 09:27
Voting machines, interesting. We just tick the box(es) on a piece of paper.
Imperial isa
05-10-2006, 09:33
Voting machines, interesting. We just tick the box(es) on a piece of paper.

yup
i just hope we dont get big long ones one day as that be a pain
CanuckHeaven
05-10-2006, 10:31
Voting machines, interesting. We just tick the box(es) on a piece of paper.
Same here. Scrutineers at every poll, and results within hours.
Boonytopia
05-10-2006, 11:55
Same here. Scrutineers at every poll, and results within hours.

Exactly. It seems to work pretty well too. I'm not aware of any accusations of vote rigging, etc, in Australia's history.
Delator
05-10-2006, 12:45
Voting machines, that is.

I'm usually not given to conspiracy theories, but Diebold's electronic voting machines are really starting to scare me. Check out what Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold_Election_Systems) had to say about the issue (emphasis added):



Sources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold_Election_Systems#Notes)

We use paper ballots here.

The day we change to Diebold machines is the day I move.
Peepelonia
05-10-2006, 12:52
Does anybody here have kids that watch, or perhaps watch themselves that there Kids Next Door cartoon?

I only ask because I was watching it the other day, errr umm heheh that is to say my lil baby son(okay he is 10) made me watch it the other day, and the way they chosse a new leader was wicked!(wicked as in good not as in evil) I think we can learn a lot from them.

So the old leader tags somebody and shouts 'your it!', then legs it. A massive global game of it(tag perhaps for our USAian's?) ensures and after an alotted time has passed the last person who was it, is in fact it,(it being the leader of the world). The only rule is you have to run, and you cannot get caught on purpose, anybody who does is deemed to have political motives and thusly is called a 'politician' and so put to death for treason. Comments?
Teh_pantless_hero
05-10-2006, 13:56
Does anybody here have kids that watch, or perhaps watch themselves that there Kids Next Door cartoon?

I only ask because I was watching it the other day, errr umm heheh that is to say my lil baby son(okay he is 10) made me watch it the other day, and the way they chosse a new leader was wicked!(wicked as in good not as in evil) I think we can learn a lot from them.

So the old leader tags somebody and shouts 'your it!', then legs it. A massive global game of it(tag perhaps for our USAian's?) ensures and after an alotted time has passed the last person who was it, is in fact it,(it being the leader of the world). The only rule is you have to run, and you cannot get caught on purpose, anybody who does is deemed to have political motives and thusly is called a 'politician' and so put to death for treason. Comments?

I have no pants and I support this position.
Jwp-serbu
05-10-2006, 14:53
anyone remember the 2000 florida election?

the fucking democrats just had to have electronic voting as the PAPER ballots had hanging chads/etc and the people voting were misled by ballot position/etc

well they got what they wanted - electronic voting machines

now the unintended consequences are that the machines are maybe not better than a donkey fart

btw if the machines are used - don't you think there are hackers of both democrat/republican persuasion that could affect voting outcome??????

:headbang:
Imperial isa
05-10-2006, 14:57
when it cames down to it i hate voting
Wilgrove
05-10-2006, 18:01
I usually tend not to believe these type of voting conspiracy, because comon if any of it was true, it would be the biggest egg to the face that the GOP ever had! Al Gore, John Kerry, Nacy Pelosi, Al Gore etc. would all be up in arms and demanding a paper recount and demanding a Congressional invesigation. There haven't been, so that must mean that there is no fraud in relations to the electronic voting. Now go outside, get some sun.
Bitchkitten
05-10-2006, 18:06
I had objections to the use of the voting machines from the start. I'm natually suspicious of the refusal of Diebold to leave a paper trail.
Rhaomi
05-10-2006, 18:28
I usually tend not to believe these type of voting conspiracy, because comon if any of it was true, it would be the biggest egg to the face that the GOP ever had! Al Gore, John Kerry, Nacy Pelosi, Al Gore etc. would all be up in arms and demanding a paper recount and demanding a Congressional invesigation. There haven't been, so that must mean that there is no fraud in relations to the electronic voting.
Well, anybody who's even remotely knowledgeable about the Diebold machines knows that they're designed so that tampering is easy and undetectable. So, if the Democrats do have suspicions, there is no way for them to prove them.
Wilgrove
06-10-2006, 06:34
Well, anybody who's even remotely knowledgeable about the Diebold machines knows that they're designed so that tampering is easy and undetectable. So, if the Democrats do have suspicions, there is no way for them to prove them.

Yea... so wouldn't that mean that you would have no proof that they did tampered with them?
Rhaomi
06-10-2006, 06:42
Yea... so wouldn't that mean that you would have no proof that they did tampered with them?
Well, no. Barring, of course, everything I said in the first post. Which is quite a lot.
Not bad
06-10-2006, 06:46
Gun-type or compression? What fuel do they recomend? Is a delivery system also described?
...
Don't give me that look. I've already made mock nukes, all they lack is fuel and convential explosives. I just want to compare notes.

Yes, I am that white and nerdy.:D

As for the topic, if your candidate doesn't win, blame the voting machines! It couldn't possibly be that the opposition got more people to vote for them, it must be a vast conspiracy!

I'm not saying that this company is perfect, but a conspiracy theory?

The main problems to overcome at the time of the writing (early seventies) was which conventional explosives to use in order to compress the radioactive materials to instigate the atomic reaction and also how to get all the shaped charges to reliably detonate nearly simultaneously. Much of this info was gleaned by the author of the paper by circuitously asking engineers at DuPont Nemours what to use and how to detonate it. He pretended to need the information to accomplish a similar non-nuclear weapons related ruse, the nature of which escapes me at the moment so many years after reading his account of things.
Wilgrove
06-10-2006, 06:54
Well, no. Barring, of course, everything I said in the first post. Which is quite a lot.

Yea, so apparently the machine's software was written so that the mean ol' GOP (I mean they're Conservative, and anything Conservative is BAD!) can tamper with the votes and let them win elections. I mean afterall why would anyone want to vote for Bush when the Democrats have a steller candidate like Gore or Kerry. (Please note I think that Bush sucks as Presidents, and so would've Kerry and Gore). Comon, don't you think that in order for the machines to even be used in elections they would have to be approved? I mean it's not like anyone can just walk into a polling place and place their own machines in them. No, the machines have to be approved. Also, don't you think that the committee that approves these machines would go over the codes with a fine tooth comb to make sure that the software isn't biased one way or the other?

Look I'm all for conspiracy theories. I believe in Area 51, Roswell, etc. but I just can't chew this one.
Rhaomi
06-10-2006, 07:06
Comon, don't you think that in order for the machines to even be used in elections they would have to be approved? I mean it's not like anyone can just walk into a polling place and place their own machines in them. No, the machines have to be approved. Also, don't you think that the committee that approves these machines would go over the codes with a fine tooth comb to make sure that the software isn't biased one way or the other?
Did you not read the first post? Diebold machines have numerous security flaws, do not meet the HAVA error standards, and attempts to limit their use have been stymied by lawsuits and by Republican officials with ties to the company.

EDIT: And it doesn't matter if the machines are "biased" (whatever that means). All that matters is their security. And when you make a machine that is hackable by people with even minimal technical expertise, you've got a major problem on your hands, whatever party you're in.
Not bad
06-10-2006, 07:46
We use paper ballots here.

The day we change to Diebold machines is the day I move.

They just switched to diebold electronic machines which print two paper "receipts" after voting. These are like receipts from cash registers where the voter gets a carbon copy recept which she can (and should) review for accuracy and the other is on a continuous roll of paper inside the machine which can (and randomly should) be checked against the electronic results and in cases of recount.

These diebold machines are about as secure as traditional paper ballots or possibly more secure in that any initial tampering can be easily seen by the voter in comparing the receipt to his choice, while any tampering after can easily be detected by comparing the paper rolls to the electronic votes.