NationStates Jolt Archive

I've heard it cried by some that the terrorists have won, or are winning, because of fear of Islamic retribution - most recent example that some point out is the Opera closing (supposedly because of fear from Muslim race riots). Others on the other side of the spectrum, point out how many freedoms the West is now willing to sacrifice (supposedly to make us safer from terrorism).

Here's some disturbing statistics involving fear of Islam. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia)

Germany

In 2006 a survey of Germans by the Allensbach Institute commissioned by the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung revealed that 56% of those surveyed wanted the government to ban the building of mosques, 62% believed that there would always be ‘major conflicts’ between Islam and Christianity. 91% linked Islam to the "oppression of women" while 71% believed Islam was "intolerant". 40% of the participants believed that "tough limits should be imposed on the practice of Islam in Germany

United States

A 2006 Gallup survey of American public opinion found that "many Americans harbor strong bias against U.S. Muslims". [50]

* 22% say they would not like to have a Muslim as a neighbor.
* 34% believe U.S. Muslims support al-Qaeda.
* 49% believe U.S. Muslims are loyal to the United States.
* 39% advocate that U.S. Muslims should carry special ID


(That last is particularly disturbing, reminiscent as it is of the rise of bigotry and persecution in Nazi Germany.)

On this forum alone you can see many people who obviously have negative feelings towards Islam. People who are clearly afraid of Muslims and Islamic terrorism - afraid enough to take a huge, juicy shit all over the US Constitution and anything else they feel like.

So did the terrorists already win?

I've heard it cried by some that the terrorists have won, or are winning, because of fear of Islamic retribution - most recent example that some point out is the Opera closing (supposedly because of fear from Muslim race riots). Others on the other side of the spectrum, point out how many freedoms the West is now willing to sacrifice (supposedly to make us safer from terrorism).

Here's some disturbing statistics involving fear of Islam. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia)



(That last is particularly disturbing, reminiscent as it is of the rise of bigotry and persecution in Nazi Germany.)

On this forum alone you can see many people who obviously have negative feelings towards Islam. People who are clearly afraid of Muslims and Islamic terrorism - afraid enough to take a huge, juicy shit all over the US Constitution and anything else they feel like.

So did the terrorists already win?

In my opinion, they won back in 2001 when the Patriot Act was passed.

They wanted to change the way we lived our lives...they wanted us to undermine the very principles that our nation was founded on.

Boy did they do a good job.

We lost the War on Terror the moment we were willing to trade away even the smallest of freedoms for "security" from external threats.

This Afghanistan stuff only confirms what everyone with a brain already knew...that Iraq was draining necessary resources and manpower away from the true theater of conflict. I've said it since before the Iraq war started...if your going to go off and nation-build...DO IT ONE NATION AT A TIME!

I think they've certainly got the upper hand. If you look at the troubles in Northern Ireland, it took 25 years to even get to the negotiating table. Take note of those last two words - we couldn't just try and hate the Irish, and, like it or not, we couldn't just kill them all. The way the IRA were defeated was through living life as normal, and a hell of a lot of patience.

There is no quick fix solution to this problem. Anyone who thinks that you can just single out Muslims and blow up Afghanistan and it will all go away is a fool.

Nope. They failed miserably. As long as I'm alive and kickin', they haven't won.

However... when I die, you guys are all screwed.

Others on the other side of the spectrum, point out how many freedoms the West is now willing to sacrifice (supposedly to make us safer from terrorism).



"They who give up a little liberty in order to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-Benjamin Franklin

"They who give up a little liberty in order to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-Benjamin Franklin

I am SO going to sig that.
But it's usually quoted "precious liberty" instead of "a little liberty".
Makes it sound better.

Winning? Yes. Won? No.

There is still time to reverse the erosion of liberties.

Nope. They failed miserably. As long as I'm alive and kickin', they haven't won.

The point of terrorism is not to kill you; it is to scare you. In this very sense, every tiny little bit of fearmongering this nation feeds to itself is only helping to advance the cause of the terrorists. When we fear them, they have won. When we alter our routines out of the fear that they will endanger us if we don't, they have won. When we sacrifice our civil liberties for their sake, they have most certainly won.

We have taken away our own rights on their behalf. Every time we do this, we enmbolden their victory. Do not let them win. Defend your rights. Defend yourself. Freedom is priceless.

There is still time to reverse the erosion of liberties.

Actually, that's what that quote is about. For every ten minutes we are without our liberties, it becomes ten times harder to geth them back.

Time is of the essence, but hope remains. So long as we act now, it can be done. I fear, however, that, if we do not do something to reclaim our rights soon, they will fall out of reach, and they may never be returned to us again.

Winning? Yes. Won? No.

There is still time to reverse the erosion of liberties.

Do you honestly think so?

I'm 23 years old...and I don't see any reversals in the trend that has been occuring since before I was born. I'd like to be an optimist...but I don't see any likelihood of that trend reversing itself in the NEXT 23 years either. :(

fear of Islam. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia)

Germany

In 2006 a survey of Germans by the Allensbach Institute commissioned by the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung revealed that 56% of those surveyed wanted the government to ban the building of mosques, 62% believed that there would always be ‘major conflicts’ between Islam and Christianity. 91% linked Islam to the "oppression of women" while 71% believed Islam was "intolerant". 40% of the participants believed that "tough limits should be imposed on the practice of Islam in Germany

(That last is particularly disturbing, reminiscent as it is of the rise of bigotry and persecution in Nazi Germany.)


Wooo! Fourth Reich!

Wooo! Fourth Reich!
Wooo! No more people with Asperger's!

In my opinion, they won back in 2001 when the Patriot Act was passed.

They wanted to change the way we lived our lives...they wanted us to undermine the very principles that our nation was founded on.

Boy did they do a good job.

We lost the War on Terror the moment we were willing to trade away even the smallest of freedoms for "security" from external threats.

This Afghanistan stuff only confirms what everyone with a brain already knew...that Iraq was draining necessary resources and manpower away from the true theater of conflict. I've said it since before the Iraq war started...if your going to go off and nation-build...DO IT ONE NATION AT A TIME!

Exactly.

(By the way, if you post just one more message, you will have 2,000 posts (exactly) to your name.)

Wooo! Fourth Reich!

Gee, that's funny, nazi boy.

Gee, that's funny, nazi boy.

Look up the word "reich."

Look up the word "reich."

Look up the term "flamebait."

Wooo! No more people with Asperger's!

Pffft. They'll never be able to tell. We can act normal enough.

Look up the term "flamebait."

How is that flamebait? I want a libertarian/conservative domain, not this pansy Republik.

Do you honestly think so?

I'm 23 years old...and I don't see any reversals in the trend that has been occuring since before I was born. I'd like to be an optimist...but I don't see any likelihood of that trend reversing itself in the NEXT 23 years either. :(

In some ways, there has been disturbing erosions of our liberties since World War II. A wise man once said, "The Nazis may have lost World War II, but Fascism won." Nevertheless, I think those have been more than offset by the civil rights and equal rights movements of the 60s and 70s.

The problem is fear and those that have been feeding our fears and reaping the benefits of it since the Cold War. Politicians' need to make is think we need them to keep us save has created a large number of servile people willing to let others decide what's best for them.

A related problem is the disproportionate amount of power that a vocal minority has over a silent majority. Most of the greatest erosions of our personal liberties have come at the behest of small but loud groups who think they know how to live our lives better than we do.

And mud. We need more mud in the world. :)

Pffft. They'll never be able to tell. We can act normal enough.
Not if someone denounces you...

I want a libertarian/conservative domain, not this pansy Republik.
Stick to your own country.

Not if someone denounces you...

Who's the Nazi now?

How is that flamebait? I want a libertarian/conservative domain, not this pansy Republik.

Because "Fourth Reich" is a neo-nazi phrase, because you said it specifically in reference to the mention of the third reich and policies regarding bigotry and hatred, and because you know it.

Man, at least have the balls to admit when you're trying to piss people off. Or STFU. Whichever.

Who's the Nazi now?
Hey, spying on one's neighbours is an important part of keeping the country safe.

Because "Fourth Reich" is a neo-nazi phrase, because you said it specifically in reference to the mention of the third reich and policies regarding bigotry and hatred, and because you know it.

Oh. So you're an idiot. You clearly have no understanding of the word "reich", nor the numbering of the German Reichs.

*hands you a German dictionary*

*hands you a German dictionary*
Ahem...aren't you sorta the wrong person to be preaching German to anyone?

Fact is that there were previous empires (don't use the word "reich", there is an English equivalent available). But fact is also that the word has acquired a negative connotation and that the specific "Fourth Empire"/"Viertes Reich" phrase is being used by several Neonazi groups.

And that your original statement was clearly referring to Nazism/Racism, of course.

Oh. So you're an idiot.


Oh. So you're pretending to be an idiot. "I had no idea it was a term used by Neo-Nazis (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Heil_FourthReich/), even though I only mentioned it in response to talking about the Third Reich, which I have never in any way glorified or defended on this forum."

Maybe. Teh only reel terorisy is BUSH and he rigged the elections to win so you mighte sday that he did win. But we can all rfise up and stpo him. Whose wit me?

Maybe. Teh only reel terorisy is BUSH and he rigged the elections to win so you mighte sday that he did win. But we can all rfise up and stpo him. Whose wit me?

After you take off those mittens. :)

Ahem...aren't you sorta the wrong person to be preaching German to anyone?

I'm closer to it than him.

Fact is that there were previous empires (don't use the word "reich", there is an English equivalent available). But fact is also that the word has acquired a negative connotation and that the specific "Fourth Empire"/"Viertes Reich" phrase is being used by several Neonazi groups.

Negative schmegative. I don't stop using words because someone decided to do something bad with them. I use Fourth Reich to refer to the strong... domain that I want to come.

And that your original statement was clearly referring to Nazism/Racism, of course.

Actually, it refers more to the fact that Germans might be finally looking into their pants and finding... their testicles!

Oh. So you're pretending to be an idiot. "I had no idea it was a term used by Neo-Nazis (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Heil_FourthReich/), even though I only mentioned it in response to talking about the Third Reich, which I have never in any way glorified or defended on this forum."

If they want to use the word, I can't stop them. Doesn't make them right.

If they want to use the word, I can't stop them. Doesn't make them right.

Let's see. You responded to a post quoting:

Persecution based on religion, in Germany
a reference to Nazis in the third reich

with "Woo! Fourth Reich!"

Claim innocent all you want. "Fourth Reich" isn't some innocent "word" that I am taking of context. You're not fooling anyone.

You're a nazi. Just admit it... you'd show more "testicles" that way. A real Aryan Superman wouldn't lie and dodge and squirm around like you are, trying to appear correct just to avoid breaking forum rules.