NationStates Jolt Archive

Folks, I couldn't make this up if I tried. (http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/ap/2006/10/02/asia/AS_GEN_Afghanistan_Frist.php) I'm not that good.

QALAT, Afghanistan U.S. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist said Monday that the Afghan guerrilla war can never be won militarily and called for efforts to bring the Taliban and their supporters into the Afghan government.

The Tennessee Republican said he had learned from briefings that Taliban fighters were too numerous and had too much popular support to be defeated by military means.

"You need to bring them into a more transparent type of government," Frist said during a brief visit to a U.S. and Romanian military base in the southern Taliban stronghold of Qalat. "And if that's accomplished we'll be successful."
Now realize, this is the Taliban we're talking about here. Mullah Omar's boys. BFF's with Osama Bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri. The fuckers who bombed the Cole, the Khobar Towers, and who staged the 9/11 attacks. Those guys.

And Frist says we can't beat them and should just let them come back into power in Afghanistan.

See what happens when you let ideology trump pragmatism in governing? You get these idiots and you get these results.

Low, even for him.

10 bucks says six months to a year Saddam is back in power.

He said allow them to Join the gov't, not surrender.

What? This is pragmatism trumping ideology, the neoconservative "we don't negotiate with terrorists" ideology. Those people will fight to the last man. They really can’t be beat. Accommodation and appeasement are the only ways to end the bloodshed. In fact, it has worked quite well in Pakistan.

I’m actually quite proud of Mr. Frist. Didn’t know he had it in him, and I’m awfully disappointed in the partisan politics displayed from someone who I thought would support this.

10 bucks says six months to a year Saddam is back in power.

*takes 10 bucks* You might as well give it up, its a Shite Iraq now. No group of Sunni, no matter how well-armed and well-organized can take it back.

What? This is pragmatism trumping ideology, the neoconservative "we don't negotiate with terrorists" ideology. Those people will fight to the last man. They really can’t be beat. Accommodation and appeasement are the only ways to end the bloodshed. In fact, it has worked quite well in Pakistan.

I’m actually quite proud of Mr. Frist. Didn’t know he had it in him, and I’m awfully disappointed in the partisan politics displayed from someone who I thought would support this.

Ever occur to you that the conclusion Frist comes to now is either incorrect or is the result of poor decisions made in the last 5 years? Sorry, but allowing the Taliban to be part of the government can't be a realistic option.

Does this mean we'll be getting a call telling us they'll no longer be needing Canadian soldiers to get killed for the sake of Mr. Bush sometime soon? Gosh, that'd be swell.

He'll be gone in a few months, why bother worrying about Bill Frist?

don't think of it as a surrender, think of it as an alliance between people with so much in common

He'll be gone in a few months, why bother worrying about Bill Frist?

I'd just as soon he didn't reemerge in 2008 as a Presidential contender.

I'd just as soon he didn't reemerge in 2008 as a Presidential contender.

He won't. He killed himself with the braindead wench way back when. Most of his actions since then have just put him further into the hole.

He won't. He killed himself with the braindead wench way back when. Most of his actions since then have just put him further into the hole.

Still. No harm in piling on. Besides, it's apparently causing all sorts of right-wing bloggers to claim they're ditching the Republican party. I look at it as an act of mercy to help them on their way.

Didn't take long for Frist to play the I was taken out of context (http://www.volpac.org/index.cfm?FuseAction=Blogs.View&Blog_id=483&Month=10&Year=2006) card.

Didn't take long for Frist to play the I was taken out of context (http://www.volpac.org/index.cfm?FuseAction=Blogs.View&Blog_id=483&Month=10&Year=2006) card.
Damn coward.
Ever occur to you that the conclusion Frist comes to now is either incorrect or is the result of poor decisions made in the last 5 years? Sorry, but allowing the Taliban to be part of the government can't be a realistic option.
It is certainly an option for me. Anything to end the bloodshed. Of course they've made mistakes, but until we invent time machines, we have to live with the present we have and not a bunch of "what ifs."

Frist is simply positioning for a bid on the Presidency.

The Taliban are beatable. Just need proper forces to do it. But they don't really have oil so it will probably not happen.

One thing that would screw them really bad is establishing a relationship with the tribal people in Pakistan. They don't particularily like the Taliban either as they are outsiders. If we made it worth it to them, they would get rid of them.

Frist is simply positioning for a bid on the Presidency.

The Taliban are beatable. Just need proper forces to do it. But they don't really have oil so it will probably not happen.

One thing that would screw them really bad is establishing a relationship with the tribal people in Pakistan. They don't particularily like the Taliban either as they are outsiders. If we made it worth it to them, they would get rid of them.

Oh please. We're never going to do that while the current administration is in power. They don't understand how diplomacy works. They can't figure out how to make friends with the lesser evil to defeat the greater evil. They can't understand how to do anything but shout "Yee-haw!" as they bomb yet another country.

Oh please. We're never going to do that while the current administration is in power. They don't understand how diplomacy works. They can't figure out how to make friends with the lesser evil to defeat the greater evil. They can't understand how to do anything but shout "Yee-haw!" as they bomb yet another country.

Oh I think they understand how it works--they just choose not to use it, especially when there's no political upside. Diplomacy is boring, after all. Bombings are sexy. Fighter planes are sexy. Tanks are sexy. Sexy to the folks back home, anyway, and they're the ones who vote.

Boy, I wish the US had been this motivated to give up during WWI. It's a bit pathetic.

Folks, I couldn't make this up if I tried. (http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/ap/2006/10/02/asia/AS_GEN_Afghanistan_Frist.php) I'm not that good.


Now realize, this is the Taliban we're talking about here. Mullah Omar's boys. BFF's with Osama Bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri. The fuckers who bombed the Cole, the Khobar Towers, and who staged the 9/11 attacks. Those guys.

And Frist says we can't beat them and should just let them come back into power in Afghanistan.

So, we wage a war to overthrow the Taliban, we occupy the country and attempt to create a new government that can stand on its own, then we look to Iraq and just say "Fuck it, the Taliban isn't going away, lets just let them back in the government so we don't have to deal with them."

A step forward followed by a step right back to where we started. Great, just great, we're allowing the only regime we displaced that actually supported terrorists to get a share in the government again. War on terror my ass. Politically expedient invasion and withdrawl is more like it.

So, we wage a war to overthrow the Taliban, we occupy the country and attempt to create a new government that can stand on its own, then we look to Iraq and just say "Fuck it, the Taliban isn't going away, lets just let them back in the government so we don't have to deal with them."

A step forward followed by a step right back to where we started. Great, just great, we're allowing the only regime we displaced that actually supported terrorists to get a share in the government again. War on terror my ass. Politically expedient invasion and withdrawl is more like it.

And further proof that this "war on terror" was never about reducing the threat of terrorists at all. From the political angle, I see lots of similarities between this folly and the "war on abortion." Offer right-wingers proven solutions to reduce the number of abortions--increased child care, access to contraception, emergency and otherwise, etc--and they turn it down because what they really want is control of women. Same with this--tell them that going into Iraq will cause more problems rather than fewer, and they don't want to hear it. They're interested in press releases, not results.

10 bucks says six months to a year Saddam is back in power.

Six months and some one worse than Saddham is in power while Saddham is still bouncing around kangaroo court.

Folks, I couldn't make this up if I tried. (http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/ap/2006/10/02/asia/AS_GEN_Afghanistan_Frist.php) I'm not that good.


Now realize, this is the Taliban we're talking about here. Mullah Omar's boys. BFF's with Osama Bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri. The fuckers who bombed the Cole, the Khobar Towers, and who staged the 9/11 attacks. Those guys.

And Frist says we can't beat them and should just let them come back into power in Afghanistan.

See what happens when you let ideology trump pragmatism in governing? You get these idiots and you get these results.

Dear sir: if you don't believe in letting idiots participate in government, if you don't believe in giving a voice to psychopaths and anti-democratic ideologues, if you don't believe in "one person, one vote" ... then you don't believe in democracy.

Frist just signed his own political death warrant ...say bye bye frist . If this is somehow true and in full context .



The only rule in war is to win . If it takes a hundred years and twenty generations you fight until you win.

Assholes like this guy contaminate the gene pool . Its better he be retired off to the old punk farm .


This is a war to keep secular and western culture ..if you are to believe the words of those we are fighting.


The TALIBAN are beaten to a PULP militarily they are destroyed...

BUT the Islamic idea of the infidel invader in Afghanistan will keep new recruits comming until they are either all dead or the AFGHANS figure out how to form a united and unified Country for the first time in their history .

The same with Iraq..only the Iraqis can form a unified Government the uS gave them the chance they have to step up and take it .

Then all the Jihadist will be in Somalia and Iran ...and staging attacks from those countries if allowed .

It will be a long war . They do not like western culture and want us and our INFLUENCE on their society gone and feel the only way too do it is to destroy our society or to convert us to Islam..they dont seem to care much how they do it .

If a little infidel blood must be shed ,,so be it ...its all in the name of Allah .

I have a super-deluxe nutty question: How does the Afghanis feel about this? I mean, they are the ones the Taliban ground into submission the irst time they were in power. I think they ought to have a say if they are governed by maniacs again, eh?

Maybe we could *giggle* arm and train them and let them fight to keep their own freedom.

Every one of your words is controversial, perhaps deliberately so.
I will pick only these, since they are so piquant, and sad:


This is a war to keep secular and western culture ..if you are to believe the words of those we are fighting.

Have you no words of your own? In all of your post, there is no reference to why, or what for, you would turn this wonderful promising century of progress into a century (or even a half-century) of religious war, but these: "to keep secular and western culture."

We should rise above war. If we can't rise above economic war, or above war over resources, or wars of sheer desperation of dying ideologies, at least let us rise above wars of religion.

"Secular and Western." For shame.

Frist said this? Since when did we get sucked into an alternate reality?

Well, I intend to vote in the Republican primary come next May, and hopefully get a candidate that's far more palatable than our current president. That candidate is not, nor will it be, Bill Frist.

Folks, I couldn't make this up if I tried. (http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/ap/2006/10/02/asia/AS_GEN_Afghanistan_Frist.php) I'm not that good.


Now realize, this is the Taliban we're talking about here. Mullah Omar's boys. BFF's with Osama Bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri. The fuckers who bombed the Cole, the Khobar Towers, and who staged the 9/11 attacks. Those guys.

And Frist says we can't beat them and should just let them come back into power in Afghanistan.

See what happens when you let ideology trump pragmatism in governing? You get these idiots and you get these results.

Hey, it's all part of Accomplishing the Mission. See, the terrorists stand up as we stand down...

I have a super-deluxe nutty question: How does the Afghanis feel about this? I mean, they are the ones the Taliban ground into submission the irst time they were in power. I think they ought to have a say if they are governed by maniacs again, eh?

Maybe we could *giggle* arm and train them and let them fight to keep their own freedom.

What'cho talkin' bout boy? A-rabs ain't stuited fer govy-ment, we gots ta spoon feed 'em ever'thin.

Seriously though, while it seems the majority of the NS population is composed of liberal Europeans, it also seems that those liberal Europeans like to hold on to the old ideal that Western civilization is the best there is, and that people outside of that civizliation are mere savages.

Didn't take long for Frist to play the I was taken out of context (http://www.volpac.org/index.cfm?FuseAction=Blogs.View&Blog_id=483&Month=10&Year=2006) card.

That's the one thing you can always count on them to do.

That's the one thing you can always count on them to do.

Well, that and blame the liberal media for doing it to make them look bad.

What'cho talkin' bout boy? A-rabs ain't stuited fer govy-ment, we gots ta spoon feed 'em ever'thin.

Seriously though, while it seems the majority of the NS population is composed of liberal Europeans, it also seems that those liberal Europeans like to hold on to the old ideal that Western civilization is the best there is, and that people outside of that civizliation are mere savages.

Afghanis aren't Arabs.

Well, that and blame the liberal media for doing it to make them look bad.

LOL, that too. :D

Afghanis aren't Arabs.

Your powers of observation astound.

However, I was refering to the stereotype whereby everybody East of Europe is either an Ay-rab, Hindoo, or Chinaman.
History is such a nice place, isnt it?

Well, that and blame the liberal media for doing it to make them look bad.

Yeah, it sucks that conservatives screw up and the media catches and exposes them. The media MUST be out to get them!

Your powers of observation astound.

However, I was refering to the stereotype whereby everybody East of Europe is either an Ay-rab, Hindoo, or Chinaman.
History is such a nice place, isnt it?

Ah, my misunderstanding.

Yeah, it sucks that conservatives screw up and the media catches and exposes them. The media MUST be out to get them!

We must put a stop to this! :eek:

Does this mean we'll be getting a call telling us they'll no longer be needing Canadian soldiers to get killed for the sake of Mr. Bush sometime soon? Gosh, that'd be swell.

Not likely, bush is trying to weaken your forces, so the upcoming invasion will be all the more easy. :p

Frist is simply positioning for a bid on the Presidency.

The Taliban are beatable. Just need proper forces to do it. But they don't really have oil so it will probably not happen.

One thing that would screw them really bad is establishing a relationship with the tribal people in Pakistan. They don't particularily like the Taliban either as they are outsiders. If we made it worth it to them, they would get rid of them.
Yeah, too bad we don't have like..oh.. 100,000 troops over in afganistan. I wonder where those guys are at anyways... ;)

And i don't think afghanistan has oil, but iirc, there is a large oil pipline in the north.

Oh please. We're never going to do that while the current administration is in power. They don't understand how diplomacy works. They can't figure out how to make friends with the lesser evil to defeat the greater evil. They can't understand how to do anything but shout "Yee-haw!" as they bomb yet another country.

God bless America -waves flag- Yee haw:rolleyes:

We must put a stop to this! :eek:

Yes lets censor people, so they cannot lie anymor!

We must put a stop to this! :eek:

FOX News would certainly agree. You can see that what with the White House and FOX acting as if what Foley did with that kid is not big a deal. Wonder how they would spin this thing with Frist...

Ok, here is a wonderful example of people having only the most superficial understanding of the situation and jumping on the propaganda.

The Taliban are not Al Qaeda. The Taliban provided a home for Al Qaeda, but they are not the same at all. The Taliban government was a little annoyed with Al Qaeda, as they were not in total agreement on a lot of issues.

Since the bombing of Afghanistan, Al Qaeda propaganda has capitalized on the war very well and is slowly getting the people on its side. Even though Al Qaeda is using propaganda about the war as a sort of ‘told ya so’ to bring people to seeing the US the same way it does, you cannot portray the Taliban as a terrorist organization.

Bringing the Taliban into government would be of great benefit to the Afghani government – it would eliminate a major opposing fighting force, bring many people into the political fold (thus increasing the legitimacy of the government in the eyes of the people), and actually improving democracy. Saying ‘we are not an invading imperialist force but liberators imposing a democracy so you can vote for whoever you want (so long as we like them)’ is a bit ridiculous.

Yes lets censor people, so they cannot lie anymor!

I was being facetious.

I was being facetious.

and i was going along with the routine :)

Now realize, this is the Taliban we're talking about here. Mullah Omar's boys. BFF's with Osama Bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri. The fuckers who bombed the Cole, the Khobar Towers, and who staged the 9/11 attacks. Those guys.


Ummmm ... the Taliban and AQ are not one and the same.

But yes, it is a stupid idea. Although pulling out is what we are going to end up doing if the US doesn't start to put some more resources into the effort.

and i was going along with the routine :)

Ah. ;)

Folks, I couldn't make this up if I tried. (http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/ap/2006/10/02/asia/AS_GEN_Afghanistan_Frist.php) I'm not that good.


Now realize, this is the Taliban we're talking about here. Mullah Omar's boys. BFF's with Osama Bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri. The fuckers who bombed the Cole, the Khobar Towers, and who staged the 9/11 attacks. Those guys.

And Frist says we can't beat them and should just let them come back into power in Afghanistan.

See what happens when you let ideology trump pragmatism in governing? You get these idiots and you get these results.

About time...

Wow, can we just dissolve the Senate and start from scratch with term limits please?[/sarcasm]
First Foley, now Frist; good grief our elected officials are morons

Ummmm ... the Taliban and AQ are not one and the same.

They're certainly close allies and have a working relationship.

Folks, I couldn't make this up if I tried. (http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/ap/2006/10/02/asia/AS_GEN_Afghanistan_Frist.php) I'm not that good.


Now realize, this is the Taliban we're talking about here. Mullah Omar's boys. BFF's with Osama Bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri. The fuckers who bombed the Cole, the Khobar Towers, and who staged the 9/11 attacks. Those guys.

And Frist says we can't beat them and should just let them come back into power in Afghanistan.

See what happens when you let ideology trump pragmatism in governing? You get these idiots and you get these results.

W. T. F.

This is what happens when you divert resources and attention from a real threat... actually losing a war we could have won, and had every reason to fight.

A little piece of me dies every day.

And now we'll have two failed states instead of just one.

That's the one thing you can always count on them to do.

I'm pretty sure they have a "Big Book of 'I was taken of Context's". It has little tags, kind of like those alphabetized page tabs, only with different reasons for the rebuttal than letters.

lol. The US has already surrendered to taliban. Way back.

Inside Taliban - PBS video can be viewed here. Very detailed and indepth reporting from actual places of taliban.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/view/