NationStates Jolt Archive

Too many people are addicted to drugs and people want it legalised. I mean drugs are the bane of humankind. They were not this synthetic 100 years or 60 years ago but now they are. There are so many unknown mutations they cause that we will be terrified in a decade to learn what have they so far caused. Like mass sterilization of populatioN!
Say no to drugs, stand against them, don't let your friends fall to abyss.

Thats the way, merge all 'drugs' into one group. I'm assuming that you are refering to the drugs that various governments have decided should be illegal? Hell, caffine is a drug. Nicotine is a drug. The majority of people who are drug addicted are addicted to legal perscription drugs.

Anyway, what exactly is it that you're arguing?

Ridiculous.

There has been no society-shaking increase in addiction, and more than just those who are want recreational drugs legalized. By the way, which drugs are "they?" How do you know they are more synthetic? Furthermore, why would this make any difference at all? Arsenic is elemental, and still quite harmful.I love how you claim to know about countless unknown mutations...a counterintuitive, contradictory claim. What you're really citing is your own lack of understanding and imagination. Do you have any numbers to back up a claim of drugs causing mass sterilization? Given the rampant increase in addictions you claim, they ought not to be hard to find.

Frankly, I would rather say no to stupidity, stand against it, and not let my friends fall into the trap of ignorance.

Any drugs whose use does not harm anyone else should be legalized.

And nothing about acts under the influence fits in there, BTW.

Too many people are addicted to drugs and people want it legalised. I mean drugs are the bane of humankind. They were not this synthetic 100 years or 60 years ago but now they are. There are so many unknown mutations they cause that we will be terrified in a decade to learn what have they so far caused. Like mass sterilization of populatioN!
Say no to drugs, stand against them, don't let your friends fall to abyss.

Come on, man, you're like... so very outraged. Have a joint and you can, like, calm down some

"Get high on sports, not drugs. But if there are no sports in your neighborhood, fuck it; get high on drugs." -George Carlin.

crack, extasy, cocaine, heroine, lsd, morphine whatever. There are countless nameless pills going around in nightclubs, between friends. They become increasingly ignorant of anything around them except their temporary pleasure.

The problem is once people accepted that drugs are bad. Now they don't because they see its widely used and use themselves, after a while accepting its a normal thing to do. Without realising their perception of world around them dims and they don't care. People get raped or rape while they are drugged, they don't remember anything, some commits suicide. I have many friends in Rome and other cities of europe and you may have not noticed but daily bodies of overdosed drug users are cleaned froms streets.
Drugs dont just kill poor or rich, they kill young minds possible of accomplishing something in their lives. a new discovery, clean politics or a social reform, whatever. But when they fall to drugs they no longer care or operate at very low performance. Drugs kill a society. Drugs suck artists dry, after a few extra good works they are stuck unable to do something or imagining without drugs.

The drug money feeds terrorist organisations. Every drug you buy returns you as a bomb to civillians.

Drugs generally make people stupider.
Hitler was on drugs, look what happened to him.

Too many people are addicted to drugs and people want it legalised. I mean drugs are the bane of humankind. They were not this synthetic 100 years or 60 years ago but now they are. There are so many unknown mutations they cause that we will be terrified in a decade to learn what have they so far caused. Like mass sterilization of populatioN!
Say no to drugs, stand against them, don't let your friends fall to abyss.

you do relise that people a hundread or two years ago took more frequently than people do now?

You're again mixing the different sorts of drugs. I mean, you don't die of caffeine or THC! Often people don't even die of the drug itself but things, which are mixed to it cause that. So IMHO the best method should be to legalize it and have normal legal standards on them.

You're again mixing the different sorts of drugs. I mean, you don't die of caffeine or THC! Often people don't even die of the drug itself but things, which are mixed to it cause that. So IMHO the best method should be to legalize it and have normal legal standards on them.
Marijuana dumbs people down though.

you do relise that people a hundread or two years ago took more frequently than people do now?

Yep - Coca Cola still had traces of cocaine in it till the start of the 20th C., and you used to be able to both buy opium over the counter and get it prescribed by your doctor.

Is the OP trolling?

Marijuana dumbs people down though.
Is there a scientific proof for that?

The drug money feeds terrorist organisations. Every drug you buy returns you as a bomb to civillians.

wouldnt that be more of a reason to legalise then? let the government take the money not the gangs.

i've benn called alot of things by people, conservative, right winger, capitalist and facsist. some of which are apt. but this one of my more liberal views.

Is there a scientific proof for that?

it at least makes you lazy which makes less likely to study. but it does help people who have more self control. like come on now people, one has to be stoned to understand the more complex physics.

you do relise that people a hundread or two years ago took more frequently than people do now?

Yes the china had opium wars and internal chaos for 50 years. The afghanistan is hell it is now with everyone using drugs every day. Since they cant feed children they give them opium milk to keep them asleep.

The drugs are an escape from poverty for poor. Which is not good, if you are asleep or stupidly happy you cant go work more and gain more to improve your life standarts, and at overall affect for good of society. You cant bash goverment to get your rights if the fault is at goverment, you cant resist when you are high.
Drugs are the easy way for artists or writers. But like alcohol after a while they cant do anything Without drugs, it kills creativity.
Getting used to something effects uf very bad, like getting used to cofee every morning to make. You turn into an asshole without cofee. you always search for cigarettes etc.

A side problem is the cofee, cigarettes or drugs we use today are not all antural like they used to be. Most of them are too processed for extremely easy and fast consumption and to use every bit of expensive product by making it more with addition of chemical ingredients. The most obvious examples are cigarettes, the natural tobacco without chemicall additions, processing and cigarette papar around it is quite healthy and nice. But the ones we consume are highly toxic cheap filth.

wouldnt that be more of a reason to legalise then? let the government take the money not the gangs.

i've benn called alot of things by people, conservative, right winger, capitalist and facsist. some of which are apt. but this one of my more liberal views.

I agree on that but still the question remains, how to stop people from using it? Legalising would just make it soooo widely used in an instant casualties would be insane!

Drugs are the easy way for artists or writers. But like alcohol after a while they cant do anything Without drugs, it kills creativity.


ok then, i'm just going to through out my, beatles, cream, led zeplin, black sabbath, pogues, and patti smith cd's. oh wait how about i make it easier on myself and stop listening to good music all together?

Too many people are addicted to drugs and people want it legalised. I mean drugs are the bane of humankind. They were not this synthetic 100 years or 60 years ago but now they are. There are so many unknown mutations they cause that we will be terrified in a decade to learn what have they so far caused. Like mass sterilization of populatioN!
Say no to drugs, stand against them, don't let your friends fall to abyss.

Legalizing at least the "soft" drugs is certainly the way to go. They really do not harm you that much and wasting the governments time stopping the use of something that only harms the user is pointless. You don't see police stopping those who abuse alcohol. Or only drinking it occassionally. I consider it the same thing. For the "harder" drugs like cocaine, heroin, etc., I have to ask myself will legalizing these make the addiction problem worse? When you look at how many are addicted now, I can not believe that when the government says "ok, legal now!" that floods of people will go to buy these dangerous drugs. If anything when the government takes over, they will take the more dangerous aspects out of these drugs. Even if addiction does see a increase, it will still be better then have these drug lords have a grip on our populace. Take it away and the gangs will lose their market. Prisons will empty of drug offenders and can be replaced by violent criminals and with more prison space, means prosecuters will have less reason to cut a deal with criminals, and their case loads will ease without drugs clogging the system.

Now I also believe in personal responsibility. If you decide to get drunk or high and you commit a crime while under the influence, you pay the penalty. Being intoxicated or addicted will not be an excuse for getting a ligher sentence. I don't care about all this "addiction is a disease" nonsense. You chose to get to the point that you are and now you can pay the price.

In the end, leaglization might bring more addicts but it will still mean less violent crime from the now nonexistent drug trade.

I agree on that but still the question remains, how to stop people from using it? Legalising would just make it soooo widely used in an instant casualties would be insane!

educate people to use them properly. but things like heorine, i would not advise at all. turns you into a zombie person.

as i have said before, i think lsd should be manditory at least once, before they go to collage.
read the book "island". i had this view anyway before i read it.

The drugs are an escape from poverty for poor. Which is not good, if you are asleep or stupidly happy you cant go work more and gain more to improve your life standarts, and at overall affect for good of society.
First: if you write standarts don't talk about stupidly happy!
Second: the use of drugs was in many cultures a part of the culture.



Getting used to something effects uf very bad, like getting used to cofee every morning to make. You turn into an asshole without cofee. you always search for cigarettes etc.
I have not understood that, but: Others keep on checking their cellphone, their stocks or their forumthreads...

Marijuana dumbs people down though.

Yeah, but other than that it is mostly harmless. When you're high you pretty much just sit on some guy's couch and watch Invader Zim for 8 hours.

Marijuana dumbs people down though.

So does TV, movies, magazines, videogames etc etc are any of those banned?

Any drugs whose use does not harm anyone else should be legalized.

And nothing about acts under the influence fits in there, BTW.

addiction harms everyone.

educate people to use them properly. but things like heorine, i would not advise at all. turns you into a zombie person.

as i have said before, i think lsd should be manditory at least once, before they go to collage.
read the book "island". i had this view anyway before i read it.

Heroin is still better then other drugs because it turns you into a zombie. Taking crack will have a rather opposite effect I think.

I'd prefer the zombie myself.

it at least makes you lazy

Please explain to me how beer is better...

...wait.

We're not supposed to be having this argument.

Why? Because I own my body. At least in theory I am supposed to have the right to put whatever I want into it - rat poison, too.

Heroin, Tipp-ex, chifir... whatever. My body, my life.

(How many people don't even know what chifir is?)

...
Man, what have you been taking to come up with such incoherent posts?

(How many people don't even know what chifir is?)
it's tea.

addiction harms everyone.
If this means you want to ban everything, which can be addicting, many things wouldn't be legal: TV, music, gaming, computer-games, computer programming, the internet, helll, eating wouldn't be legal.

Yeah, but other than that it is mostly harmless. When you're high you pretty much just sit on some guy's couch and watch Invader Zim for 8 hours.
Or.. play Katamari Damacy... :D

If this means you want to ban everything, which can be addicting, many things wouldn't be legal: TV, music, gaming, computer-games, computer programming, the internet, helll, eating wouldn't be legal.
I didn't say I wanted to ban anything.

I am just saying "whatever doesn't harm someone else should be legal" leaves a LOT of room for people with agendas to find harm.

addiction harms everyone.

Addiction harms people who are likely to get addicted, not those who have self-control and can takea drug once and go, "well, that was a (blank) experience." and not do it again like I have with Crystal Meth.

Addiction harms people who are likely to get addicted, not those who have self-control and can takea drug once and go, "well, that was a (blank) experience." and not do it again like I have with Crystal Meth.


being likely to get addicted has nothing to do with self control.

At the end of the day why should I as a taxpayer pick the tab on this witch-hunt? If someone wants assistance to 'get clean' then I dont mind helping, but why should taxpayers pay millions of dollars to chase after people supposedly to 'help them' by throwing them in prison, when they dont want this expensive alledged help.

At the lower end of the scale we can spend 10's of thousands of dollars to chase up a couple of sad-sacks, drag them through court and fine them a couple of hundred dollars a piece. We recently did this in our country to some people who apparently needed our 'help'. Cost 10's of thousands of dollars, they were fined a few hundred each, and obviously as wealthy business people and tv personalities they were clearly in deep trouble.....

Chances are people who are going to take drugs are more likely to have higher health care costs then people who 'live clean', so why the frig we are spending millions of dollars to 'help' druggies, and lining the pockets of criminals and terrorists instead of saving ourselves millions and maybe making some tax dollars to cover any associated costs, I cant really explain.

What I do know is that when a young woman who has pays her taxes, abides by the law and is a promising student, calls the police for help and gets sent a taxi (to the wrong address) because we are so low on police resources we cant send her a real policeman, and then is never seen again, while we spend millions 'helping' druggies who dont want (and probably are less deserving of) our help, something is seriously fucked up!

Too many people are addicted to drugs and people want it legalised. I mean drugs are the bane of humankind. They were not this synthetic 100 years or 60 years ago but now they are. There are so many unknown mutations they cause that we will be terrified in a decade to learn what have they so far caused. Like mass sterilization of populatioN!
Say no to drugs, stand against them, don't let your friends fall to abyss.


Shhh. You're messing up my plans...

Please explain to me how beer is better...

...wait.
Why? Because I own my body. At least in theory I am supposed to have the right to put whatever I want into it - rat poison, too.

Heroin, Tipp-ex, chifir... whatever. My body, my life.



i never said anything about you shouldnt smoke weed. i'm just saying its can very hard to do things when very stoned.
also never said beer was better.

i'm just saying its very hard to do things when stoned.

No, it's not.

No, it's not.
Exactly. It is very easy when stoned to, for example, sit on you sister's art coursework.

No, it's not.

well some people do.
when in london some times i was too stoned to go around to the shop to buy food, even though i had the munchies.

Exactly. It is very easy when stoned to, for example, sit on you sister's art coursework.

If you're high on heroin, it's really easy to lay there and be assfucked for hours, and not know it until much later.

If you're high on heroin, it's really easy to lay there and be assfucked for hours, and not know it until much later.

i'm assuming you have done heroine?
i think it is easier to let people who have done alot of different drugs to comment. people who havent tried shouldnt comment on something they know nothing about.

i'm assuming you have done heroine?
i think it is easier to let people who have done alot of different drugs to comment. people who havent tried shouldnt comment on something they know nothing about.

I've dated girls who did heroin. And watched the serial assfucking.

I've dated girls who did heroin. And watched the serial assfucking.

i wasnt disagreeing that using heroine inables to do much. i was just stating people that have experienced things shouldnt talk about them
like virgins talking about sex.

Here in this topic we are talking about drug addiction, chemicals that effect our biology and therefore our entire nerve system including our brain. Although its debatable that psychological effects are as strong as chemical ones; the entertainment and information has become consumer products etc. we must stick to subject. Because other possible addictives are at general beneficial to society and only harmful when overused.
Chemical drugs on the other hand are addictive beginning from first use. Their entire meaning is to be addictive and being used in higher dosses, creating an ever increasing consumption craziness that can only end in disability to function or death. Without expensive and extremely hard rehabilitation of course. Saving a person from drugs is the hardest and most expensive all. So pre- emptive action is most profitable option for whole society.
We need humans, we are humans so we cannot just sit back and watch people destroy themselves so obviously and directly. Its inhuman!
Why I have especially decided to talk more about it everywhere is caused by an observation. People no longer care nor believe we can defeat drug addiction. Although I agree we can never be completely succesfull because we can never completely control every individual nor should do so. This doesn't mean that we should surrender ourselves to sweet sweet sleep of death embracing whole human society.
We must stop thinking that drugs are a way to rebel against conservative society that imposes us with archaic forms of thought without any reason. This has nothing to do with freedoms at all. Many countries seemingly conservative deep goverment forces are gaining their main power to opress people from drug sales. Add this mafias and terrorist organisations and see what I mean.


Shortly: It is not happy hippie shit that it looks likes. Its not make happy pills or pixie dust that people believe it is. Its a moronizer and zombie turner.
What can and must we citizens do? Know what it is and tell others.Know that drugs are wrong and don't give up this opinion just to agree with other people.

We must stop thinking that drugs are a way to rebel against conservative society that imposes us with archaic forms of thought without any reason. This has nothing to do with freedoms at all.

as i would agree drugs are not good way to rebel.
however, it is a freedom to do what the fuck i like.

Addiction harms people who are likely to get addicted, not those who have self-control and can takea drug once and go, "well, that was a (blank) experience." and not do it again like I have with Crystal Meth.

How about uniquely dangerous drugs like ecstasy, espescially in some of it's less...pure...forms.

How about uniquely dangerous drugs like ecstasy, espescially in some of it's less...pure...forms.

driving is dangerous, so is crossing the street and going out side in general.

Too many people are addicted to drugs and people want it legalised. I mean drugs are the bane of humankind. They were not this synthetic 100 years or 60 years ago but now they are. There are so many unknown mutations they cause that we will be terrified in a decade to learn what have they so far caused. Like mass sterilization of populatioN!
Say no to drugs, stand against them, don't let your friends fall to abyss.

Mutations? Sterility? Are you high?

driving is dangerous, so is crossing the street and going out side in general.

Studies show that 90%* of people who inhale oxygen in their lives will die.



*10% margin of error

driving is dangerous, so is crossing the street and going out side in general.

I'm asking if one could consider a single use of ecstasy safe, espescially knowing how much potential brain damage it can cause.

As I've said in the past, I've no problems with the legalization of drugs, all the same, I will continue to discourage their use.

as i would agree drugs are not good way to rebel.
however, it is a freedom to do what the fuck i like.

Your freedom is not a problem by itself but demand you create gives oppurtunity for bad guys to mass produce cheaper drugs with more synthetic and chep igredients and sell them very cheaply to everyone everywhere. Even before gaining the ability to give seperate decisions from their friends many children get addicted to drugs this way.
It wouldn't be this much a problem if few individuals were using it. But it has become popular and widespread being spread even faster by popularity. Most of the population obeys popular concepts without thinking so it is important what few available peope think and spread to society.

driving is dangerous, so is crossing the street and going out side in general.
that why there is traffic training and license to drive. Drugs have no license to use since they are illegal anyone can use them. We can claim driving is a personal freedom but it effects the guys we kill so if we dont want to be lynched by an angry mob of relatives we must abide to rules and laws and get a license to use it and accep responsibility for our actions

Mutations? Sterility? Are you high?

THE END IS NIGH!!!!!!!!!

The drug money feeds terrorist organisations. Every drug you buy returns you as a bomb to civillians.

Someone BOUGHT that load of crap?

Someone BOUGHT that load of crap?

FARC and the Taliban both receive substantial quantities of cash from drugs. The FARC actually receives almost all of it's funding from Cocaine.

Your freedom is not a problem by itself but demand you create gives oppurtunity for bad guys to mass produce cheaper drugs with more synthetic and chep igredients and sell them very cheaply to everyone everywhere.

more reason to legalise.
legalise=control.

crack, extasy, cocaine, heroine, lsd, morphine whatever. There are countless nameless pills going around in nightclubs, between friends. They become increasingly ignorant of anything around them except their temporary pleasure.

The problem is once people accepted that drugs are bad. Now they don't because they see its widely used and use themselves, after a while accepting its a normal thing to do. Without realising their perception of world around them dims and they don't care. People get raped or rape while they are drugged, they don't remember anything, some commits suicide. I have many friends in Rome and other cities of europe and you may have not noticed but daily bodies of overdosed drug users are cleaned froms streets.
Drugs dont just kill poor or rich, they kill young minds possible of accomplishing something in their lives. a new discovery, clean politics or a social reform, whatever. But when they fall to drugs they no longer care or operate at very low performance. Drugs kill a society. Drugs suck artists dry, after a few extra good works they are stuck unable to do something or imagining without drugs.

The drug money feeds terrorist organisations. Every drug you buy returns you as a bomb to civillians.
Once people accepted that drugs were bad? When? When cocaine could be bought from a shoe-shine boy legally for less than a dollar a gram? When heroin was a major ingredient in over the counter cough syrup? The idea that drugs are bad is a relatively new one. For the bulk of human history drugs were a normal part of life.

Many people can handle drugs. Many people can't. Same with credit cards. Credit cards can fuck up one's life too. Should we ban them?

I have a way to put it:


All mind altering substances should be banned.

I have a way to put it:


All mind altering substances should be banned.

caffeine? alcohol?

Good god! That'll be the worst down of my life!

caffeine? alcohol?

Good god! That'll be the worst down of my life!

Yep. Even sugar. Can't have little kids running around high on a sugar rush.

Yep. Even sugar. Can't have little kids running around high on a sugar rush.

Then there'd be only one way left to alter my mental state!

Jumping out of airplanes, and trying to hit a swimming pool just right!!

Then there'd be only one way left to alter my mental state!

Jumping out of airplanes, and trying to hit a swimming pool just right!!

Sounds good to me. You go first, I'll go for the pool next door.

Here in this topic we are talking about drug addiction, chemicals that effect our biology and therefore our entire nerve system including our brain. Although its debatable that psychological effects are as strong as chemical ones; the entertainment and information has become consumer products etc. we must stick to subject. Because other possible addictives are at general beneficial to society and only harmful when overused.
Chemical drugs on the other hand are addictive beginning from first use.
I do believe you dont know what you are talking about. If LCD is a chemical drug in your mind, then no it's not chemically addictive, although good 'ol 'organic-drug' tobacco contains the highly addictive nicotine.

Their entire meaning is to be addictive and being used in higher dosses, creating an ever increasing consumption craziness that can only end in disability to function or death.
Caffein is addictive, can cause miscarraige, and birth and chromosomal abnormalities, yet we feed that to our children in popular softdrinks like coca-cola, pepsi and mountain dew.
I think that your perspective is a clear example of one of the big problems with the current regime of drug prohibition that is typical throughout much of the modern the western world, aka "cluelessness" with regards to drugs.

Without expensive and extremely hard rehabilitation of course. Saving a person from drugs is the hardest and most expensive all. So pre- emptive action is most profitable option for whole society.
Nicotine is probably more addictive than any drug you could name. It has been demonstrated to be more addictive than heroine. However, many many people give up smoking cigarettes. Considering they are much cheaper than heroine and much less socially unacceptable, not to mention they wont get you arrested simply for possessing them, you'd think people would be less motivated to give them up than heroine. I cant help but consider that part of the reason people have so much trouble giving up illicit drugs is because they are brainwashed into believing it so hard that it'd take a superhuman to do it. Kinda like a self-fufilling prophecy of doom.

We need humans, we are humans so we cannot just sit back and watch people destroy themselves so obviously and directly. Its inhuman!
It's not your and my business to monitor every action of our fellow-humans. Why not also have junk-food police, why not the exercise monitors? How the heck is throwing people in prison, criminalising them (big ramifications in regards to their ability to be productive members of society), and alienating them from the rest of society, in other words actively destroying people, better than letting them do the job themselves, at a heck of a lot less cost to the taxpayer?

Why I have especially decided to talk more about it everywhere is caused by an observation. People no longer care nor believe we can defeat drug addiction.
Perhaps you are very young? Drug addiction is certainly not something that can be stopped through the current 'prohibit and arrest' methods commonly employed. I doubt that it is possible to erradicate addiction without technological advances in recreational drugs and a very different drug policy.

Although I agree we can never be completely succesfull because we can never completely control every individual nor should do so. This doesn't mean that we should surrender ourselves to sweet sweet sleep of death embracing whole human society.
You are talking nonesense. Alcohol, nicotine, and caffein are all legal and freely available and yet many people do not even consume any one of these drugs. Many people who do consume one or more are not and never have been addicts. Many drugs that we arrest people for consuming, possessing or producing are not even addictive. It's an absolute shambles.

We must stop thinking that drugs are a way to rebel against conservative society that imposes us with archaic forms of thought without any reason.
Firstly not everyone takes drugs for such a reason. Further this problem would in fact be alleviated if drugs were treated more reasonably, and constructively by society.

This has nothing to do with freedoms at all.
Er yes it does, stating otherwise doesnt magically make it so.

Many countries seemingly conservative deep goverment forces are gaining their main power to opress people from drug sales. Add this mafias and terrorist organisations and see what I mean.
Er, the only reason the above problems occur is because of the over-inflated profits arising from the black market status of drugs. In other words it's because drugs are illegal. If it were the drugs themselves rather than their illegality then alcohol (which is a huge industry) would also be fueling the mafias and terrorist organisations. At one time alcohol did indeed fuel the mafia - specifically during prohibition, when it was illegal in the US.

Shortly: It is not happy hippie shit that it looks likes. Its not make happy pills or pixie dust that people believe it is. Its a moronizer and zombie turner.
What can and must we citizens do? Know what it is and tell others.Know that drugs are wrong and don't give up this opinion just to agree with other people.
What you can do is get yourself educated. By talking about something you are ignorant about, you simply discredit your position. Given a lot of young people try drugs having realised that much of the anti-drug 'information' they have been given is false, your uninformed sermonising is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Sounds good to me. You go first, I'll go for the pool next door.

No, no, I insist, you first :D

We should legalize and control all the recreational drugs. For two reasons:

First, ultimately an adult human has the right to live and exist as they see fit. Ultimately, if we really believe in freedom and liberty, we have no right to impose our moral beliefs on others - or force them to do the "safe" thing. Every adult has the right to go to hell in their own handbasket, if that's what they want.

Second, our attempts to enforce prohibition of recreational drugs are causing far more damage than the drugs themselves ever could. We're throwing people in prison for consensual crimes, and then wondering why they come out as hardened crims. Our black markets of drugs are feeding cartels and terrorists all the money they could ever hope for. Drug addicts, basically unable to function any more, are turned out and given no help - does it surprise anyone that they turn to crime to survive and service their habits? We get all of these side effects, but for all the money we pump into the War on Drugs, what results do we see? Zero, zip, nada. Just the occasional shot of heavily armed "police" breaking down somebody's door - and all too often the wrong door, and killing innocent people.

Drugs have bad effects. No one argues otherwise who has any real experience with them. But rationally, if the cure is worse than the disease, I'd rather have the disease.

Too many people are addicted to drugs

Give us numbers. Also give us a clear definition of "too many".

and people want it legalised.

Again, give us numbers. Also give us a clear definition of "too many".

I mean drugs are the bane of humankind.

Evidence?

They were not this synthetic 100 years or 60 years ago but now they are.

Evidence?

There are so many unknown mutations they cause that we will be terrified in a decade to learn what have they so far caused.

Err... no. That's just BS.

Like mass sterilization of populatioN!

And that's particularly stupid and ignorant BS.

Say no to drugs, stand against them, don't let your friends fall to abyss.

Say no to ignorance, stupidity, and the racism that lead to the prohibition of those drugs you refer to.

http://www.kaboem.nl/data/cache/images/5b052002f20fcdf49af3cbd141b558eb.jpg

http://www.kaboem.nl/data/cache/images/5b052002f20fcdf49af3cbd141b558eb.jpg

mmmmmm'kay?

http://www.kaboem.nl/data/cache/images/5b052002f20fcdf49af3cbd141b558eb.jpg

Exactly so. Ban PNC! That drug has lead to more problems than almost any others I can think of...

I do believe you dont know what you are talking about. If LCD is a chemical drug in your mind, then no it's not chemically addictive, although good 'ol 'organic-drug' tobacco contains the highly addictive nicotine.

One minus one plus it doesn't matter. You don't get high with a cigarette that you will run naked in the streets.


Caffein is addictive, can cause miscarraige, and birth and chromosomal abnormalities, yet we feed that to our children in popular softdrinks like coca-cola, pepsi and mountain dew.

Don't. I don't drink coca cola neither let children drink it. That's your problem. But people drinking coca cola just don't stare a wall for 6 hours straight.

I think that your perspective is a clear example of one of the big problems with the current regime of drug prohibition that is typical throughout much of the modern the western world, aka "cluelessness" with regards to drugs.

You don't suggest a right way to do it only discrediting the current way. This is called destroying the house you are living in before you have another to move. Nature does not accept vacuum, you dont magically have perfect solutions. You always find better solutions then disassamble what you used before. This is the way science is progressing today like any other thing that progresses. Other way is just collapsing the system and leading to anarchy.
Just discrediting the way things are then sitting back does nothing, you are just a complainer if I'm to take only this post about you. Prove me wrong.

Nicotine is probably more addictive than any drug you could name. It has been demonstrated to be more addictive than heroine. However, many many people give up smoking cigarettes. Considering they are much cheaper than heroine and much less socially unacceptable, not to mention they wont get you arrested simply for possessing them, you'd think people would be less motivated to give them up than heroine. I cant help but consider that part of the reason people have so much trouble giving up illicit drugs is because they are brainwashed into believing it so hard that it'd take a superhuman to do it. Kinda like a self-fufilling prophecy of doom.

Intoxicating for drug users can take months, both clearing body of their extracts and mentally healing to understand they don't need drugs to live. Even if we programmed people to thinking drugs are not harmful they would still vomit and have all the negative effects. Have you ever watched first time users that don't know anything about it? They are fucked up. Its not just placebo effect, chemicals are there.

It's not your and my business to monitor every action of our fellow-humans. Why not also have junk-food police, why not the exercise monitors? How the heck is throwing people in prison, criminalising them (big ramifications in regards to their ability to be productive members of society), and alienating them from the rest of society, in other words actively destroying people, better than letting them do the job themselves, at a heck of a lot less cost to the taxpayer?

Junk food just makes you fat and ugly drugs make you hypnotised and completely unaware etc.
Direct approach is a clear conscience act, lets not get our hands dirty is a secretly dirty conscience action thats doomed to surface sooner or later. If its right then use your own hands and do it, if its wrong then don't. Your logic to let people destroy themselves have many examples like letting Aids run rampart, believing only homosexuals will die and WASPS will get rid of them. Its wrong.

Perhaps you are very young? Drug addiction is certainly not something that can be stopped through the current 'prohibit and arrest' methods commonly employed. I doubt that it is possible to erradicate addiction without technological advances in recreational drugs and a very different drug policy.

Is being young here meaning inexperianced, naive, etc? Doesn't matter. I agree it cant be stopped trough only traditional means. But traditional means can't be completely left until new methods are in place. Technological advance is necessary and recreational drugs too, but what until then? Let it run rampant like plague? No, until then as many people as possible must know that drugs are completely harmful and must be avoided. Social actions doesnt effect everyone and sometimes create counter actions yes but they must still be done.

You are talking nonesense. Alcohol, nicotine, and caffein are all legal and freely available and yet many people do not even consume any one of these drugs. Many people who do consume one or more are not and never have been addicts. Many drugs that we arrest people for consuming, possessing or producing are not even addictive. It's an absolute shambles.

What are these drugs? Marihuana? I know not every user(not even most) are addicted to it. But still even as they claim they are not addicted to it or use it on seriously problematic level they don't stop using it. Im not sure about weed and a few very light species of drugs, they seem harmless but I know a few long term users and all of them are looking worse than a thai prostitutes asshole. And let me tell you, taking a cab and seeing that driver is smoking a cigarette and offering you is one thing and seeing that driver is high on those 'light' and 'harmless' drugs is another. You realize the difference then.

Firstly not everyone takes drugs for such a reason. Further this problem would in fact be alleviated if drugs were treated more reasonably, and constructively by society.

Yes but it must still be identified as a problem, not a natural thing.

Er yes it does, stating otherwise doesnt magically make it so.

Same for stating that it does, it doesnt make it so.

Er, the only reason the above problems occur is because of the over-inflated profits arising from the black market status of drugs. In other words it's because drugs are illegal. If it were the drugs themselves rather than their illegality then alcohol (which is a huge industry) would also be fueling the mafias and terrorist organisations. At one time alcohol did indeed fuel the mafia - specifically during prohibition, when it was illegal in the US.

True but before that it must be carefully planned and supervised all along the way to make necessary changes to see how it works in practice. By the way, legal things like alcohol are still highly profitable because of high taxes on them. So even if they are legal there will be still control problems if you don't find a middle ground for thing slike pricing.

What you can do is get yourself educated. By talking about something you are ignorant about, you simply discredit your position. Given a lot of young people try drugs having realised that much of the anti-drug 'information' they have been given is false, your uninformed sermonising is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I heard this kind of talk before. This means you have tried marihuana and didn't get addicted to it instantly like you were told, didn't turned into a beast etc. So what? I have known people that could use marihuana enough to make whole population of vatican go crazy and stay sit still bored and unaffected. Give it to other guy and he will start spending his all college money on it until hes in dumbster. People are different than each other, some people should not even get the smell of drugs, some people are just too easily addicted. Until we find a test for it and license people we must accept the mind affecting drugs are indeed mind affecting and must be avoided.








Give us numbers. Also give us a clear definition of "too many".

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/world_drug_report.html


Again, give us numbers. Also give us a clear definition of "too many".


One is too many in drugs
8th-Graders 10th-Graders 12th-Graders
Lifetime 3.7% 5.2% 8.0%
Annual 2.2 3.5 5.1
30-Day 1.0 1.5 2.3

Crack Cocaine Use by Students, 2005:
Monitoring the Future Survey

8th-Graders 10th-Graders 12th-Graders
Lifetime 2.4% 2.5% 3.9%
Annual 1.4 1.7 1.9
30-Day 0.6 0.7 1.0


cut cut cut...


Say no to ignorance, stupidity, and the racism that lead to the prohibition of those drugs you refer to.

No. I mean Im saying no to those things but by the way racism is irrevelant to subject.

There werent this many kinds of drugs a few decades ago, not his complex labs and big mafia cartels able to produce this refined products. If was mainly use of basic and natural drugs.

Look at here: http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/cocaine.html see teh details. Crack for example is a by product thats dirt cheap to produce and incredibly dangerous.

addiction harms everyone.

that was not the point. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Exactly so. Ban PNC! That drug has lead to more problems than almost any others I can think of...

The Ballpark in Pittsburgh????:confused: :confused: :confused:

One minus one plus it doesn't matter. You don't get high with a cigarette that you will run naked in the streets.
Which is of course irrelevent to the point that you made and that I countered. You stated that particular drugs were particularly addictive, as it happens not all the drugs in the reference group are even marginally addictive, and further when compared to drugs not in the group you appear to single out, the addiction isnt anything in particular at all.

Although your comments about running naked in the street are utterly irrelevent to the particular point that was being discussed (ie addictiveness) at this point in the conversation, it is worth pointing out that not everyone who doesnt take 'chemical drugs' doesnt ended up running naked in public, and not every who does take 'chemical drugs' does end up running naked in public. Clearly the chemical drugs are neither a necessary nor sufficient cause of running naked in the streets. So aside from irrelevent the comment is ill-founded.

Don't. I don't drink coca cola neither let children drink it. That's your problem. But people drinking coca cola just don't stare a wall for 6 hours straight.
Whether or not you do is absolutely irrelevent. The point is these drinks are routinely fed to children in our society and with society's full-blessings and acceptance.

As for people staring at the wall, I suggest that birth abnormalities, chromosomal abnormalities and unwanted miscarriages are far worse complications. If people wish to stare at walls (or even a single wall) for half a dozen hours, it is no skin off my nose and frankly not really my business, nor yours. I certainly see no reason why my taxdollars should be hemorraged at a huge rate just to stop people from staring at walls....

You don't suggest a right way to do it only discrediting the current way. This is called destroying the house you are living in before you have another to move.
Firstly, you didnt ask for an alternative. More importantly your analogy is false. Without offering any alternative, advocating an end to the current regime is like deciding to get the hell out of a burning house even if you dont have a firm destination in mind. The current regime is a harm worse than the problem it alledgedly exists to address. It not only isnt effective, it's a counter-effective regime.

Nature does not accept vacuum, you dont magically have perfect solutions. You always find better solutions then disassamble what you used before.
The point is that there is currently no solution in place, simply a non-solution that has an array of negative effects. So instead of just a problem, now we have that same problem plus the problems of the non-solution.

This is the way science is progressing today like any other thing that progresses. Other way is just collapsing the system and leading to anarchy.
Just discrediting the way things are then sitting back does nothing, you are just a complainer if I'm to take only this post about you. Prove me wrong.
How very ironic. I recall this thread started with you moaning and complaining about an issue you are utterly clueless about. You start by not proving yourself right, and when people demonstrate that you are wrong you ask them to prove that you are wrong....er, I think you fell behind. Which of your conclusions have not been shown to be flawed?

Intoxicating for drug users can take months, both clearing body of their extracts and mentally healing to understand they don't need drugs to live.
Intoxication is usually rather quick (at least much quicker than months) in the case of IV-administration, it's pretty much instantaneous. Detoxification on the other hand can take a little longer...
Detoxification refers only to the elimination of toxins, the 'belief that one needs drugs' is a seperate issue to both detoxification and addiction.

Evidently with modern technology it is possible to detox a person from some particularly notorious drugs in a very short time, without their being conscious of the ill-effects. Further, for some drugs, it is possible to offer treatment that prevents the detoxie from actually being able to 'get high' on the drug they are being detoxed for. Heroine addiction for instance can be treated with a rapid detox and an implant that prevents the detoxie from 'getting high' on heroine can then be inserted. Patient goes to sleep and wakes up clean and unable to pursue the 'heroine high' even if they want to. You cant do that with cigarettes.

Even if we programmed people to thinking drugs are not harmful they would still vomit and have all the negative effects. Have you ever watched first time users that don't know anything about it? They are fucked up. Its not just placebo effect, chemicals are there.
First time users are not addicted, so quite what you think you are on about here, I dont even care to guess.
Placebo effect is not the point. The point is that nicotine has been demonstrated to be more addictive than heroine and unlike heroine (which has more severe but also more short term withdrawal) there is no fast detox treatment for nicotine that consists of going to sleep and waking up clean and innoculated against future addiction.

Junk food just makes you fat and ugly drugs make you hypnotised and completely unaware etc.
Again you demonstrate a lack of understanding and knowledge. Junk food is more than capable of effecting the mental states and moods of people.

Direct approach is a clear conscience act, lets not get our hands dirty is a secretly dirty conscience action thats doomed to surface sooner or later. If its right then use your own hands and do it, if its wrong then don't. Your logic to let people destroy themselves have many examples like letting Aids run rampart, believing only homosexuals will die and WASPS will get rid of them. Its wrong.

What a load of tosh. I dont choose to run after people in order to arrest them, give them cavity searches, drag them through the court system, criminalise them (which effects their career, their travel prospects, their whole life for the rest of their life) and possibly imprison them and then try to call this unwanted, negative attention 'help'. That's no kind of help I'd want!
You can come up with ridiculous analogies all you like, but frankly I think it would have been barbaric to arrest and prosecute anyone caught having homosexual sex in order to prevent AIDS, clearly this would have been acceptable to you, even if it made things worse, so long as we did it in the name of forcing 'help' on those poor unfortunates who are in your mind unfit to govern their own lives.

Is being young here meaning inexperianced, naive, etc?
Not necessarily, but I do have trouble reconciling such a huge lack of knowledge and understanding with someone of more mature years.

Doesn't matter. I agree it cant be stopped trough only traditional means. But traditional means can't be completely left until new methods are in place.
The status quo isnt 'traditional means' it is a fairly recent initiative (mostly dating from last century). What you seem to ignore is that the status quo isnt simply 'not as effective as one would want', it is actually counter-productive. It doesnt lesson problems, it increases problems.

Technological advance is necessary and recreational drugs too, but what until then? Let it run rampant like plague? No, until then as many people as possible must know that drugs are completely harmful and must be avoided. Social actions doesnt effect everyone and sometimes create counter actions yes but they must still be done.
We could say the same of butter, or sugar, or McDonalds. As for running rampant like the plague, that's really very silly. Before the status quo, there must have been more people who to wanted make drugs illegal or didnt care, than wanted to take them, so when drugs were not illegal they were not running so rampant as you appear to think they were, or they would never have been made illegal in the first place!

What are these drugs? Marihuana? I know not every user(not even most) are addicted to it.
Sorry, honey, you miss again. It isnt that 'not even most' are not addicted. The fact is no one is addicted to the 'pot'. None of the substances present in 'pot' have addictive properties.

But still even as they claim they are not addicted to it or use it on seriously problematic level they don't stop using it.
And so? Plenty of people that are not addicted to alcohol and who dont use it on a seriously problematic level, dont stop using it. The difference is that unlike pot, it is actually possible to be addicted to alcohol.

Im not sure about weed and a few very light species of drugs, they seem harmless but I know a few long term users and all of them are looking worse than a thai prostitutes asshole. And let me tell you, taking a cab and seeing that driver is smoking a cigarette and offering you is one thing and seeing that driver is high on those 'light' and 'harmless' drugs is another. You realize the difference then.
I realise you have very poor reasoning skills. Unless you want to tell me you'd feel just great if the cabbie were high on scotch or tequila, your point is pointless.
Alcohol unlike 'weed' is addictive and you if you've any sense in your head you wouldnt want your cabbie, or any cabbie on the road, to be high on that while driving. This hardly seems a good reason to prohibit all alcohol and go about arresting people for having a red-wine with dinner, while telling them their incarceration and criminalisation is 'for their own good'...:rolleyes:


Yes but it must still be identified as a problem, not a natural thing.
You seem to have missed the point. You were advocating prohibition due to this problem, yet it is clearly a problem that prohibition is implicated in as a cause. Recognising the problem is useless unless you intend to act on that recognition, in this case that would mean advocating the legalisation of drugs.


Same for stating that it does, it doesnt make it so.
There is more than my statement to prove that it does. You might note that a punishment for being caught acting contrary to the prohibition on drugs is prison. Prison is the removal of freedom. Ipso facto freedom is certainly implicated in this issue.

Evidently you made the assertion that freedom wasnt an implicated in this issue, as such the onus is on you to prove your case, not to assert it without basis and then imply that it's up to others to disprove it.

True but before that it must be carefully planned and supervised all along the way to make necessary changes to see how it works in practice. By the way, legal things like alcohol are still highly profitable because of high taxes on them. So even if they are legal there will be still control problems if you don't find a middle ground for thing slike pricing.
Taxes do not make alcohol profitable, the desire to consume recreational drugs does. Your comments do not demonstrate any reason to delay the legalisation of drugs. Plenty of goods and services sell on the open market. Since this is not a novel situation unless you can demonstrate why it would work any differently to the ending of prohibition in the US last century, I dont see any particular issue. There is money to be made and the corporates would soon move in and stabilise the market. Further we could actually impose reasonable restrictions (such as the need to have a license to sell, age restrictions on consumption and sale, quality & dosage control, clear labeling).

Just like with the ending of alcohol prohibition what was lost on the paperwork was gained in the prevention of exploding moonshine mills. In this case we wont loose the gain of police resources as happened last time when the FBI invoked extreme racism and hysterical propaganda in order to initiate the 'war on drugs' in a desperate bid for survival.

I heard this kind of talk before. This means you have tried marihuana and didn't get addicted to it instantly like you were told, didn't turned into a beast etc.
No, it doesnt mean that at all. It means that you are clueless about this issue and if you have desire whatsoever to not make matters worse you wont pour fuel on the 'everyone who says not to doesnt know what they are talking about' fire. If you actually want to help, then you'll get your facts straight so that whatever you are arguing, you at least dont discredit your own position, and you have some chance of making a useful contribution.

So what? I have known people that could use marihuana enough to make whole population of vatican go crazy and stay sit still bored and unaffected. Give it to other guy and he will start spending his all college money on it until hes in dumbster.
So what? Give some people a credit card application and they throw it in the bin, give it to some one else and they run up enough debts to ruin their lives and the lives of their spouse and their children. Give some people a car and a bottle of beer and they'll pass on the beer or catch a cab home, give other people the same thing and they'll wipe themselves and some innocent others off the face of the road. Just how much stuff do you want to take away from the sensible majority by threat of force, in order to give the unwanted 'assistance' of arrest and incarceration to an unfortunate minority who frankly would be better served with a stay in hospital than a visit to the judiciary?

People are different than each other, some people should not even get the smell of drugs, some people are just too easily addicted. Until we find a test for it and license people we must accept the mind affecting drugs are indeed mind affecting and must be avoided.
What nonsense, the same is true of alcohol and chocolate, both of which have addictive potential (unlike 'weed'). Let me reiterate, no one is addicted to weed. Further we have no right to test and license people so that we can then determine what they are allowed to put in their bodies. Certainly such tests have beneficial potential. Just as people might choose to have their metabolism tested to see how many calories a day they ought to consume, it is an option that many people would find useful. However until there is a commericial application I doubt we will see such tests. Until drugs are legally available, I doubt there will be any reasonable commercial application.....which brings us back to the need to remove the barrier of prohibition before any progress can be made.

Again I suggest you actually do some research and 'clue-up'. Otherwise dont be surprised if people post words to the effect 'careful, your ignorance is showing again'. If you want to assume this means that I have consumed drugs rather than taking some other more conservative/traditional approach to information acquisition, that's your choice, but it is still no excuse for you not taking the effort to be informed.

So you can make an effort to be educated and informed or you can carry on in this clueless vein if you wish, but if you choose the latter then dont blame me if in addition to being called out on your ignorance about the issue, people (ironically) ask you if you are on drugs.....often.

snip snip...
Simply put you can't compare drugs to anything. Not sugar not coke not smoke . Only close thing to drugs is alcohol but it is not in same category because it is part of our diet for thousands of years. Drugs were used by shamans and prophets etc. The common use of drugs turns societies into pacified sheep. It is the main weapon in the hands of oppressors to keep people on leash. Hassan Sabbah of Alamut used opium to create an order of elite assassins which reigned terror on earth. Usa used drugs on its own soldiers in Vietnam which helped them into turn to monsters rejected by their own society.

Yours is just a weak attempt to hide drugs between common consumer product and gain support from their consumers. Drugs are serious and their main problem and threat is ignorant fools like you that consistently deny it.
Their legalisation is only acceptable because it gives ability to better control its harms and lowers black market profits etc. Not because its a good friendly product that people should use to relax and have fun. This idea is entirely wrong and destructive. I have seen people dead or dying from drugs, know people robbing their own families to afford drugs and have witnessed the doom of many good people because they didnt take it seriously. You are ignorant because you are in an artificial haven in your mind and deny to accept the evil drugs do. The only way for you to wake up I fear is to witness loss of someone you love from drugs. I hope you dont experience such a thing and die as ignorant fool you are when you reach old age and dont even remember your name.

I'm asking if one could consider a single use of ecstasy safe, espescially knowing how much potential brain damage it can cause.

Considering for the vast majority of the population that moderate doses of MDMA are unlikely to cause any brain damage, I'd say yes, most people can, and probably should take E at least once in their lives. ;)

Too many people are addicted to drugs and people want it legalised. I mean drugs are the bane of humankind. They were not this synthetic 100 years or 60 years ago but now they are. There are so many unknown mutations they cause that we will be terrified in a decade to learn what have they so far caused. Like mass sterilization of populatioN!
Say no to drugs, stand against them, don't let your friends fall to abyss.

This is probably why you don't get invited to the cool parties.

Alcohol is much worse for you than marijuana, causes thousands of deaths every year from overdrinking, drunk driving, and so on, alcohol is responsible for 80% of all convicted domestic offenders' crimes (FBI statistics, not mine), it literally destroys brain cells, it causes massively harmful mutations in unborn fetuses, is responsible for about 75% of all sexual assaults on college campuses (RAIN statistics, not mine), causes chronic diseases such as liver disease.

Tobacco is the second leading cause of preventable deaths in the United States, and is heavily chemically addictive.

Marijuana has no known overdose rate (number of Americans who died from 1945-2006, the total amount of years for which data is available, from marijuana overdose? 0). Marijuana is used as a highly-effective painkiller and treatment for depression in hospitals all over the world, and even in some of the more intelligent states in America.

Psilocybin mushrooms (that is to say, the trippy kind), in a recent study at Stanford, were given to a test group of 30 people. None of them expressed any side effects, they all described feelings of general contentment and hapiness with the universe that lasted for __WEEKS AND WEEKS AFTER THE ACTUAL HIGH WAS OVER__. 8 of them described it as "the most spiritually significant experience" of their lives, and is currently being investigated as a possible PERMANENT CURE for chemical depression.



Think for yourself. Think independently. More than 90% of Americans have tried marijuana at least once before they reach 21. None of them have died from it. How many people do you know who have been killed by alcohol? Or a drunk driver? How many friends, neighbors, or relatives have been killed by marijuana? And how many have died of lung cancer or chronic emphyzema brought on by frequent tobacco inhalation?

Simply put you can't compare drugs to anything. Not sugar not coke not smoke . Only close thing to drugs is alcohol but it is not in same category because it is part of our diet for thousands of years. Drugs were used by shamans and prophets etc.

......... You are ignorant because you are in an artificial haven in your mind and deny to accept the evil drugs do.

smoke? like buring leaves or coal?
oh wait you probably mean cigarettes, which indeed contain a very addictive drug, which you dont seem to acknowledge. i wonder how people die of canser a year?
alcohol couldnt be a drug, cause all it does is make lose control, violent, eventually very dependant on it and destroy my liver. oh wait, is that destructive?
well alcohol has been in our diet for thousands years, and drugs have only been used by you know those recent shamans, what era did they come from again?
ah yes the evil of drugs. i'm really afraid of a giant weed plant coming down the road trying to kill me.

Considering for the vast majority of the population that moderate doses of MDMA are unlikely to cause any brain damage, I'd say yes, most people can, and probably should take E at least once in their lives. ;)

high five brother.

Psilocybin mushrooms (that is to say, the trippy kind), in a recent study at Stanford, were given to a test group of 30 people. None of them expressed any side effects, they all described feelings of general contentment and hapiness with the universe that lasted for __WEEKS AND WEEKS AFTER THE ACTUAL HIGH WAS OVER__. 8 of them described it as "the most spiritually significant experience" of their lives, and is currently being investigated as a possible PERMANENT CURE for chemical depression.


based on what i have read. they have proved that in a controlled enviroment, it can cure depression and that multipersonality thingy, after one trip. but it wont be brought as a regular treatment, cause chemical companies make too much money on medicine that you have to take every day.

high five brother.

For the purposes of this (;) ), I haven't had any.

Got some so that I can fulfil that pseudo-law? :D :D :D

Simply put you can't compare drugs to anything. Not sugar not coke not smoke . Only close thing to drugs is alcohol but it is not in same category because it is part of our diet for thousands of years.
Sorry no dice. Drugs are drugs, nicotine is a drug, alcohol is a drug, caffein is a drug. The facts are the facts, your ignorance of them notwithstanding.

Drugs were used by shamans and prophets etc. The common use of drugs turns societies into pacified sheep. It is the main weapon in the hands of oppressors to keep people on leash.
You surely do love sweeping generalisations. Considering your lack of aptitude with specifics, I suggest you lay off generalisations until you've at least mastered the rudimentary basics of getting particulars right. Given your failure to date to get the basics right, any extrapolation to generalities on your part is founded of false premises. You'd be more convincing if you said nothing at all.

Hassan Sabbah of Alamut used opium to create an order of elite assassins which reigned terror on earth. Usa used drugs on its own soldiers in Vietnam which helped them into turn to monsters rejected by their own society.
Is there some tool or object humans cannot find a way to put to bad use? You prove nothing whatsoever about drugs by singling out those that happen to be illegal at the particular time and place that you occupy and characterising them as having some fundamental difference other than their illegality.

Yours is just a weak attempt to hide drugs between common consumer product and gain support from their consumers.
Which is why you refuse to address my points and ignore that you yourself conceeded harms of the current regime without offering a single proof that it does equal much less more good than even the harms you admit to.

Drugs are serious and their main problem and threat is ignorant fools like you that consistently deny it.
LOL. I see the reason you cannot prove a single one of your assertions is because I lack knowledge...a poor workman blames their tools but an ignorant fool blames the superior knowledge of those who have made the effort to be informed.

Their legalisation is only acceptable because it gives ability to better control its harms and lowers black market profits etc.
You are absolutely dead wrong. As wrong as wrong can be. Illegality creates the black market and makes it profitable. It also removes the control of the good or service out of the hands of legitimate businesses that can be held to standards and made accountable and puts it in the hands of people who uncontrovertably are willing to break the law. A licensed dealer of alcohol has good reason to not sell to a 10 year old (ie they risk their license and therefore their livelihood), a criminal has nothing more to loose than if they get caught selling to anyone else.

Your notion that handing control of drug sales over to criminals and therefore ensuring society has absolutely no control over who sells how much of what quality to whom, and who gets the money from this, whilst also providing the risk of arrest that pumps up the value of the goods, somehow equates to better control for society and lower profits in the blackmarket is absurd, laughable and extinguishes any inkling of credibility you might have retained. It's such a gobsmackingly stupid assertion, I gotta ask, are you for real?:confused:

Not because its a good friendly product that people should use to relax and have fun. This idea is entirely wrong and destructive.
And since that idea is not being asserted, it is also a strawman. I guess when you cannot counter the points that have been made, making up one that hasnt to argue against is the only recourse....:rolleyes:

I have seen people dead or dying from drugs, know people robbing their own families to afford drugs and have witnessed the doom of many good people because they didnt take it seriously.
Right, you've had all this life experiance but still somehow escaped without getting a clue...er, well done....

You are ignorant because you are in an artificial haven in your mind and deny to accept the evil drugs do.
My mind is an artificial haven....right. Well I certainly am not out of my mind, so I guess you could argue that I am in it....I dont really see the point, but hey if it amuses you, go for broke.

The only way for you to wake up I fear is to witness loss of someone you love from drugs. I hope you dont experience such a thing and die as ignorant fool you are when you reach old age and dont even remember your name.
Just a hint, when someone knows a lot more than you about a subject or issue, calling them ignorant places you in the 'more clueless than the ignorant' category....not really a good place to be, but if you intend to carry on as you are now, I'm guessing you'd better get used to it.

Again (third time perhaps a charm) I suggest you try educating yourself, contrary to what I percieve you are crudely implying, one can learn plenty about drugs without consuming any - you could for instance try reading a book; worked for me.

Too many people are addicted to drugs
Give us numbers. Also give us a clear definition of "too many".

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/world_drug_report.html[/QUOTE]

Well that's a link to numbers without an explanation or definition. Keep trying.

and people want it legalised.
Again, give us numbers. Also give us a clear definition of "too many".One is too many in drugs



Reasoning? Evidence?

8th-Graders 10th-Graders 12th-Graders
Lifetime 3.7% 5.2% 8.0%
Annual 2.2 3.5 5.1
30-Day 1.0 1.5 2.3

Crack Cocaine Use by Students, 2005:
Monitoring the Future Survey

8th-Graders 10th-Graders 12th-Graders
Lifetime 2.4% 2.5% 3.9%
Annual 1.4 1.7 1.9
30-Day 0.6 0.7 1.0

Undefined and unsourced statistics, taken out of context are meaningless.

I mean drugs are the bane of humankind.
Evidence?


They were not this synthetic 100 years or 60 years ago but now they are.
Evidence?


There are so many unknown mutations they cause that we will be terrified in a decade to learn what have they so far caused.
Err... no. That's just BS.


Like mass sterilization of populatioN!
And that's particularly stupid and ignorant BS.


cut cut cut...

Shall I take that as a concession that the above parts of your original post are BS that you won't defend?

Say no to drugs, stand against them, don't let your friends fall to abyss.

Say no to ignorance, stupidity, and the racism that lead to the prohibition of those drugs you refer to.

No. I mean Im saying no to those things but by the way racism is irrevelant to subject.

So the original reason for drug prohibition is irrelevant? (You do know that the original drug prohibition laws originated in racist economics, don't you? If not, you are arguing from utter ignorance as to why the drugs you want banned were banned in the first place.)
Exactly so. Ban PNC! That drug has lead to more problems than almost any others I can think of...

The Ballpark in Pittsburgh????:confused: :confused: :confused:

Hehe. No. :D Remember the topic is drugs. PNC is a very common drug.

Hehe. No. :D Remember the topic is drugs. PNC is a very common drug.
...Palestinian National Council?

PNC is a very common drug.[/I]
...Palestinian National Council?

WHOA! :eek: The Palestinian National Council is a drug in your universe? Cool! ;)

WHOA! :eek: The Palestinian National Council is a drug in your universe? Cool! ;)

WTF does PNC stand for? I can't find anything on it other than, like, Purdue University and Palestinian National Council...

WTF does PNC stand for? I can't find anything on it other than, like, Purdue University and Palestinian National Council...

PNC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillin)

TLN, legalizing drugs is a good thing. If you can learn to control yourself and use them responsibly, like alcohol or smoking. Just don't over-do it, use only on special occasions or lightly, and you'll be fine. And those that abuse drugs will OD and won't contribute to future generations. The gene pool could use a little chlorine every once and a while and I'd rather have people done in by stupidity than government enforced murder or mass starvation or something like that.

that why there is traffic training and license to drive. Drugs have no license to use since they are illegal anyone can use them. We can claim driving is a personal freedom but it effects the guys we kill so if we dont want to be lynched by an angry mob of relatives we must abide to rules and laws and get a license to use it and accep responsibility for our actions


You do realize that with this one statement you have brought up the most compelling reason why drugs should be legalized?
Legal drugs such as alcohol and tobacco are regulated.
If you give a 12 year old $50 and tell him to go out and get you either alcohol or cocaine which one do you think he will be able to obtain easier?
He cannot walk into a liquor store and buy alcohol but the dealer on the corner will sell him anything he has the money to pay for.
The owner of the liquor store faces fines, imprisonment and the loss of his business by selling to minors.
The drug dealer faces imprisonment no matter who he sells to and takes this in stride as the cost of doing business.

And I challenge anyone on this forum to show conclusive proof that cannabis is in any way harmful to your health or mental acuity.
Cannabis does not make you stupid or lazy.
I used to smoke cannabis and read voraciously.
It made it easy for me to focus completely on the subject matter at hand.

I am well aware about the death and destruction that addiction can bring.
My father is an alcoholic.
My ex-wife is a cocaine addict.
One of my friends committed suicide in my apartment when he was high/drunk.

But the "War on Drugs" is not working!
Drugs such as heroin and cocaine are far purer and cheaper than any time since they were made illegal in the early 1900's.
There are hundreds of thousands of people in jail solely for buying/selling/using/manufacturing drugs.

There has got to be a better way than the "lock ‘em all up" method.
If drugs were legalized, regulated and taxed the proceeds could go to reality based drug education programs and drug treatment on demand for addicts.

w00t! for killinginthename's theory.

Except, get rid of tobacco and those drugs with Second-Hand-Smoke-esque effects.

w00t! for killinginthename's theory.

Except, get rid of tobacco and those drugs with Second-Hand-Smoke-esque effects.

Second-hand smoke is over-rated, there's a reason God invented going outside to smoke.