NationStates Jolt Archive

hmmm, that's a good question and I do realize some won't like it, however, I say "Absolutely". The reason is simple. Why should airport security take aside an 70 year old lady of any race or maybe the 6 year old boy? To me that's just stupid. They should be targeting the Arab muslims between 16 and 35.

This is my opinion and how I feel. Poll coming soon.

i think airport security should only search you. every day. whether you are anywhere near an airport or not.

We're already sliding towards a police-state...so why not...

hmmm, that's a good question and I do realize some won't like it, however, I say "Absolutely". The reason is simple. Why should airport security take aside an 70 year old lady of any race or maybe the 6 year old boy? To me that's just stupid. They should be targeting the Arab muslims between 16 and 35.

You've created a false dichotomy. It's either, "take aside a 70 year old lady," or profiling "Arab muslims."

But more than that, you've ignored something that should be obvious - old ladies could have had bombs smuggled into their luggage or even purse. Didn't think of that, did you? Good thing we don't have you working for security.

This is my opinion and how I feel. Poll coming soon.

What's how you feel? Afraid and hateful? Bigoted?

Because children and the elderley could easily be tricked or blackmailed into taking explosives, drugs, weapons, whatever on a plane by criminals or terrorists and security wouldn't suspect a thing?

I on't. I mean I could be taken aside simply for having brown skin and since I travel a lot this will piss me off. It'd be better just to have securer bag checks but not once or twice but at least 3 times before boarding a plane. And a few more metal detectors and maybe a couple of air marshals at the boarding deck to carry out final security checks. If you remember one of the suspects for the recent plot to bring down the planes was a white male who had recently converted to Islam. What people tend to forget is not all muslims are brown asians. There are white, black and many other ethnicities that practice Islam and a minoirity of these people exposed to Islamofacisim

Make everyone fly nude. Full body x-rays before boarding.

why do you still have airports? The planes are a tool of terrorism after all...

actually, what I support is removing the useless checkpoints all toghether.

Perhaps if the bodacious sovereign could provide a link that shows that racial profiling has been effective in preventing terrorism.

I wait patiently.

hmmm, that's a good question and I do realize some won't like it, however, I say "Absolutely". The reason is simple. Why should airport security take aside an 70 year old lady of any race or maybe the 6 year old boy? To me that's just stupid. They should be targeting the Arab muslims between 16 and 35.

This is my opinion and how I feel. Poll coming soon.

Spoken like a Whitey! :D

You've created a false dichotomy. It's either, "take aside a 70 year old lady," or profiling "Arab muslims."

But more than that, you've ignored something that should be obvious - old ladies could have had bombs smuggled into their luggage or even purse. Didn't think of that, did you? Good thing we don't have you working for security.



What's how you feel? Afraid and hateful? Bigoted?
Or you. Old ladies don't have much of a history of airline hijackings. Neither do old men.

There's a better way, but we're too arrogant to rely on interviews and judgement. We figure that technology and bans on toothpaste in usefully sized tubes can prevent all acts of terror at airports.

Make everyone fly nude. Full body x-rays before boarding.

Can you imagine the rape rate on a plane of nude people? Plus, it gets cold when you fly. Make them all wear airline issued jumpsuits instead.

They should be targeting the Arab muslims between 16 and 35.

why?

We shouldn't take either extreme. Pay closer attention to those who look Middle-Eastern because they are more likely to be terrorists. But don't ignore the granny in the wheelchair. She might not be a suicidal Muslim, but she might be some other kind of suicidal nut.

Racial profiling is the easiest security measure to avoid. Just send in a white extremist with a bomb instead of an Arabic member, and he'll slide right through. Easier still, put a bomb in a generic suitcase and switch it into someone else's luggage.

The focus should be on detecting bombs first, smuggled weapons second, and the identity of the person carrying them third, preferably after you've got them against the wall. The key difference between a terrorist on a plane and a regular passenger is that the terrorist is trying to get something onboard to damage the plane or the people, after all, not that he's Arab or Middle-Eastern looking.

why?

Because they're all brown, evil, Jesus-hating ragheads.
Pay attention.

Because they're all brown, evil, Jesus-hating ragheads.
Pay attention.

well obviously. i'm just wondering what speaking arabic has to do with anything.

Use some brains. Don't be afraid to target suspicious looking Arabs. And don't search a 70 year old woman simply because some monkey randomly pointed at her.

Race isn't the only factor, or even the main one, but it is a factor.

well obviously. i'm just wondering what speaking arabic has to do with anything.

Simply because the extreme Arab muslims has given the world a reason to be on alert. Unfortunately, one bad apple ruins the bushel. I know there are a lot of good, descent muslims out there but the bad ones have given them a reputation of extremism.

Because children and the elderley could easily be tricked or blackmailed into taking explosives, drugs, weapons, whatever on a plane by criminals or terrorists and security wouldn't suspect a thing?

If you're using that as your criteria you'd better just stop everyone. Unless you're prepared to do that, you have to be more selective, and the odds of a child or old woman smuggling stuff into a plane is even less than the odds of a typical white guy doing it.

Or you. Old ladies don't have much of a history of airline hijackings. Neither do old men.

Yeah, and airline hijackings didn't have much of a history of being used to blow up prominent buildings in NYC either.

There's a better way, but we're too arrogant to rely on interviews and judgement. We figure that technology and bans on toothpaste in usefully sized tubes can prevent all acts of terror at airports.

Racial profiling isn't relying on interviews or judgement - it's relying on racial prejudice. And what's this against technology, are you Amish now? Technology is what puts the aircraft into the air in the first place.

Simply because the extreme Arab muslims has given the world a reason to be on alert. Unfortunately, one bad apple ruins the bushel. I know there are a lot of good, descent muslims out there but the bad ones have given them a reputation of extremism.

Just as all the radical Jesus Camp living Christians spoil it for the rest of us.


And why dont we just do what Israel does, which is no carryons and serious searches with profiling. Profiling every damn person to get on a plane.

I know there are a lot of good, descent muslims out there but the bad ones have given them a reputation of extremism.

Something to regret, not to engage in or encourage.

Simply because the extreme Arab muslims has given the world a reason to be on alert

arab muslims? are you sure about that?

They should be targeting the Arab muslims between 16 and 35.

Yes, and leave John Reid, Jose Padilla, Shehzad Tanveer, John Walker Lindh etc.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=racial+profiling+effectiveness+&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

None of those seem to show any effective racial profiling techniques, but I'm sure King Bodacious will be along any second to explain exactly how he sees racial profiling being used in the War On Terror.

Of course. It is be no means racist to state that Islamic terrorists are universally Arabic of complexion, hence why unnecessarily impede those who are self-evidently not terrorists.

I favour fully segregated air travel in any case.

arab muslims? are you sure about that?

It's okay, I understand.

You're just in denial. :D

As soon as racial profiling starts, it'll be radical white converts trying (but not actually succeeding, I hope) to blow themselves up on planes. As, I may add, they have already tried. (linky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe_bomber))

Completely self defeating, as well as more likely to piss off innocent Arabs who you really need on your side.

i think airport security should only search you. every day. whether you are anywhere near an airport or not.

That's my opinion and my feeling. So there.

As soon as racial profiling starts, it'll be radical white converts trying (but not actually succeeding, I hope) to blow themselves up on planes. As, I may add, they have already tried. (linky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe_bomber))

Completely self defeating, as well as more likely to piss off innocent Arabs who you really need on your side.

Many Japanese worked for US intelligence providing cultural information and translation services, so there is historical precedent for such behaviour among immigrant groups.

This could be cited as an example as to how racial profiling may actually hinder the war on actual terrorists.

But King Bodacious will undoubtedly show us a counter-example that will win this debate.



















Any second now.

Of course. It is be no means racist to state that Islamic terrorists are universally Arabic of complexion, hence why unnecessarily impede those who are self-evidently not terrorists.

I favour fully segregated air travel in any case.


John Reid, Jose Padilla, Shehzad Tanveer, John walker Lindh

All terrorists, all non-arab.

Well statistics is what really won this debate.

Racial profiling.....hmmm....I know that the blacks use that as a defence countless of times....but as statistics go they are more likely to committ the crime than whites, with that being said man is more likely to committ the crime than woman.....In a perfect world It would be nice to skip to my lou to sip tea under the oak tree and watch the Sound of Music.

But I live in the real world where I see the benefits of racial profiling, an arab muslim young person is highly more likely to commit terrorism than the 70 year old lady. So by having the airport security pull asside a 70 yr old lady, the person behind her is the young arab muslim who he only has to take his shoes off and then off he goes to board the plane.

oh well......Life goes on.

http://www.vdare.com/francis/profiling.htm

Oh please. You won the debate, but you didn't even bother to read or reply to the arguments?

Go back to asserting that it's your "feeling." Patting yourself on the back for having "won" is just so much mental masturbation.

Oh please. You won the debate, but you didn't even bother to read or reply to the arguments?

Go back to asserting that it's your "feeling." Patting yourself on the back for having "won" is just so much mental masturbation.

sorry, I didn't mean to interupt your personal session. :headbang:

hmmm, that's a good question and I do realize some won't like it, however, I say "Absolutely". The reason is simple. Why should airport security take aside an 70 year old lady of any race or maybe the 6 year old boy? To me that's just stupid. They should be targeting the Arab muslims between 16 and 35.

This is my opinion and how I feel. Poll coming soon.


You have two groups of people.

One group you know is more likely to cause problems.

One groups you know is less likely to cause problems.

If the goal is to bother the fewest number of peope while providing the greatest amount of security, what do you do? Search everyone? No. Search both groups equally? No.

The racial profiling complaint is valid when the police stop more blacks for speeding then whites (which leads to more searches and arrests).

It is not valid when the terrorists really are primarly middle eastern. You cannot name three non-middle easterners and claim that the two groups of people should be treated equally. They are clearly the exception, not the rule.

John Reid, Jose Padilla, Shehzad Tanveer, John walker Lindh

All terrorists, all non-arab.

Damn, that's four! Well, that does it for me, anyway. How about the rest of you? Do you feel like these are representative of the jihadists that are the focus of our anti-terror efforts?

Well statistics is what really won this debate.

http://www.vdare.com/francis/profiling.htm

Your link contains no statistics. It's just a blog by someone with an obvious race agenda.

Neither. Not every 30-40 year old male Arab is a terrorist, they could just as easily be Mormon, Christian, a teenager, old, French, Spanish, or even- believe it or not- American. Of course an Arab Muslim is more likely to be a terrorist than a 75-year-old lady.... Of course, the USA has soldiers in the Middle East for apparently no reason, and bombed an entire city, killing thousands of innocents, in the search for one man (EDIT: sorry, one small group and two men in particular), and a vast majority of Israelis etc want them out... who do you think THEY (the Arabs) view as the terrorists?

But I live in the real world where I see the benefits of racial profiling, an arab muslim young person is highly more likely to commit terrorism than the 70 year old lady. So by having the airport security pull asside a 70 yr old lady, the person behind her is the young arab muslim who he only has to take his shoes off and then off he goes to board the plane.


I agree that that is stupid. Unless they have a specific reason to suspect the 70 year old woman, they shouldn't pull her aside.

Of course. It is be no means racist to state that Islamic terrorists are universally Arabic of complexion,

It may not be racist, but it would be plain WRONG.

The group with the largest number of jihadi types are south Asian (mostly Pak, increasingly now Bangladeshi).

The largest group of muslims in south Asian - 440 mill (India ~150 mill, Pak ~160 mill and BD ~ 130 mill, IIRC).

Just because the 9/11 hijackers were mainly Arabs, does not mean "Islamic terrorists are universally Arabic of complexion".

The percentage of terrorists of Arabic complexion is significantly higher than the percentage of terrorists who are 70 year old women.

The percentage of terrorists of Arabic complexion is significantly higher than the percentage of terrorists who are 70 year old women.

yes, not many 70 year old women are terrorist. but terrorists (both islamic and not islamic) can be of different races. we should not base security on a sereotype.

Damn, that's four! Well, that does it for me, anyway. How about the rest of you? Do you feel like these are representative of the jihadists that are the focus of our anti-terror efforts?

err...Germaine Lindsay, the whiteBelgian convert suicide bomber in Iraq, the British-Pakistanis of 7/7 and recent airline plot etc....

What I am saying is that "Arabs" are not even the "majority of jihadi threats in the world" and the jiahdi masterminds have already indicated that they can beat your profiling and even have shown that they can evolve new methods to beat your security (first direct hijackings, then shoes, then liquids etc...)....this profiling is just a step backwards. Instead of focussing on what we should do to the jihadis, you are becoming a reactionary and are willing to give up what you believed in etc. You are reacting exactly like how the jihadis want you to - profile and give more credibility to the jihadi arguments.

It may not be racist, but it would be plain WRONG.

The group with the largest number of jihadi types are south Asian (mostly Pak, increasingly now Bangladeshi).

The largest group of muslims in south Asian - 440 mill (India ~150 mill, Pak ~160 mill and BD ~ 130 mill, IIRC).

Just because the 9/11 hijackers were mainly Arabs, does not mean "Islamic terrorists are universally Arabic of complexion".

Which is why racial profiling is not the answer to the problem.

Let's be honest here. Racial characteristics are part of a person's description and, therefore, will be part of a suspect profile for law enforcement. Thus, airport security will always be more likely to keep an eye on Arabs and on Muslims in traditional clothing than on 70 year old ladies, who I presume Bodacious expects are all as white as white can be, just as long as terrorism continues to be used by Islamic extremists.

However, a blanket policy of pulling over ALL Arabs and Muslims just because of their race or religion is not going to be useful because it will distract security personnel from less obvious suspicious behavior that could identify terrorists who don't dress up in the appropriate costume. Just as many terrorists can slip through while they search old Muslim ladies as old Christian ladies.



By the way, if I ever get my hands on that 70-year-old grandmother they're always going on about, I'll push the old bitch off a plane myself. I'm that sick of hearing about her fictional ass.

The percentage of terrorists of Arabic complexion is significantly higher than the percentage of terrorists who are 70 year old women.

I am of "Arabic complexion." I am not Arabic, though. I have a dark olive complexion and am an American of mixed European ancestry (Italian, French, German and Russian). Yet I am often mistaken for Arab, Afghan, Pakistani, and Iranian, often by people from those countries. So as far as I'm concerned, all you are proposing is to place suspicion on anyone of a dark complexion, regardless of whether they actually belong to the suspect group or not. Because how will you be able to tell the difference, if even they can't? Sounds like we're crossing the line from racial profiling into racism, just a bit.

Which is why racial profiling is not the answer to the problem.

Let's be honest here. Racial characteristics are part of a person's description and, therefore, will be part of a suspect profile for law enforcement. Thus, airport security will always be more likely to keep an eye on Arabs and on Muslims in traditional clothing than on 70 year old ladies, who I presume Bodacious expects are all as white as white can be, just as long as terrorism continues to be used by Islamic extremists.

However, a blanket policy of pulling over ALL Arabs and Muslims just because of their race or religion is not going to be useful because it will distract security personnel from less obvious suspicious behavior that could identify terrorists who don't dress up in the appropriate costume. Just as many terrorists can slip through while they search old Muslim ladies as old Christian ladies.



By the way, if I ever get my hands on that 70-year-old grandmother they're always going on about, I'll push the old bitch off a plane myself. I'm that sick of hearing about her fictional ass.

Well I'll start by saying you didn't show any intelligence in your last remark....you presume Bodacious expects are all as white can be......I believe I said of any race. heres what I said on my original post:
hmmm, that's a good question and I do realize some won't like it, however, I say "Absolutely". The reason is simple. Why should airport security take aside an 70 year old lady of any race or maybe the 6 year old boy? To me that's just stupid. They should be targeting the Arab muslims between 16 and 35.

This is my opinion and how I feel. Poll coming soon. [end quote]

Also, do you not think that their are 70 year old ladies in this world let alone at the airport. Is she really a character of fiction. Give me a fucking break.

Absolutely airports should use racial profiling and every other form of potential identififcation when looking for a suspect.

But they should only use these when looking for a specific person for a specific reason and not when randomly rooting around through peoples clothing and possessions hoping to catch a terrorist in the way that blind pigs hope to find acorns. If we wish to tolerate random harassment and bizarre time wasting rituals in airports in the hopes that we are safer by allowing this, then we should all take our fair share of the random harassment and participate in our fair share of bizarre security rituals when we fly.

Well statistics is what really won this debate.

Racial profiling.....hmmm....I know that the blacks use that as a defence countless of times....but as statistics go they are more likely to committ the crime than whites, with that being said man is more likely to committ the crime than woman.....In a perfect world It would be nice to skip to my lou to sip tea under the oak tree and watch the Sound of Music.

But I live in the real world where I see the benefits of racial profiling, an arab muslim young person is highly more likely to commit terrorism than the 70 year old lady. So by having the airport security pull asside a 70 yr old lady, the person behind her is the young arab muslim who he only has to take his shoes off and then off he goes to board the plane.

oh well......Life goes on.

http://www.vdare.com/francis/profiling.htm

What statistics? I have not seen any posted so far

It may not be racist, but it would be plain WRONG.

The group with the largest number of jihadi types are south Asian (mostly Pak, increasingly now Bangladeshi).

The largest group of muslims in south Asian - 440 mill (India ~150 mill, Pak ~160 mill and BD ~ 130 mill, IIRC).

Just because the 9/11 hijackers were mainly Arabs, does not mean "Islamic terrorists are universally Arabic of complexion".

you and your facts. next you'll be demanding we think through things rationally on the basis of true premises. bah, i say.

My answer:

Muslims are, obviously, the only ones capable of Terrorism. No white people would ever be a terrorist. Riiight. :rolleyes:

Search everyone. Make it fair.

Well I'll start by saying you didn't show any intelligence in your last remark....you presume Bodacious expects are all as white can be......I believe I said of any race. heres what I said on my original post:
hmmm, that's a good question and I do realize some won't like it, however, I say "Absolutely". The reason is simple. Why should airport security take aside an 70 year old lady of any race or maybe the 6 year old boy? To me that's just stupid. They should be targeting the Arab muslims between 16 and 35.

This is my opinion and how I feel. Poll coming soon. [end quote]

Also, do you not think that their are 70 year old ladies in this world let alone at the airport. Is she really a character of fiction. Give me a fucking break.

You're sweet. You're really cute, honest. No, I do not think there is a real 70 year old lady. That's why I referred to her fictional ass. ("fictional" = not real.) What I meant is that I am tired of this made-up scenario of little old ladies getting pat-downs while terrorists are presumably waltzing through screening with six bombs and some stolen art treasures strapped to their hats.

What you are doing here is what is typically done by people who want to label all Muslims or all Arabs as "The Enemy" but who want to appear as if they are not prejudiced. If this is not what you really think, you need to take another look at your own argument.

"Racial profiling" is a system by which all members of a particular group are automatically placed under suspicion and are singled out by the cops soley on the basis of their appearance. A suspect profile would be something like "young men of Arabic appearance who engage in the following behaviors (list behaviors), carry the following kinds of objects (list objects)" and so forth. A racial profile just says "Arabs." It may also contain stereotypical descriptions of what an "Arab" looks like.

As others have pointed out, not only does this kind of thing end up antagonizing all Arabs, including those who might otherwise have chosen to help the authorities, it also wastes the time of security forces by keeping them occupied with superficial features of appearance while ignoring more important features of behavior.

Racial profiling was in place in Boston in the 1980s against blacks. Charles Stewart, a white man, exploited it to try to get away with murdering his wife and blaming it on an anonymous black man. The Boston police spent weeks conducting a brutal dragnet of black neighborhoods and causing so much unrest that the city was on the brink of riots. It was fortunate that just a couple of detectives felt they were barking up the wrong tree. They paid more attention to the facts of the case and fingered the husband.

Racial profiling is not about facts. It's about prejudice.

EDIT: BTW, after the Stewart case, they gave up racial profiling in Boston.

My answer:

Muslims are, obviously, the only ones capable of Terrorism. No white people would ever be a terrorist. Riiight. :rolleyes:

Search everyone. Make it fair.

Agreed.