NationStates Jolt Archive


Japan has a new PM

Hamilay
28-09-2006, 15:31
I haven't seen any threads on this lately, so I thought I'd start one. Koizumi has finished his term and Shinzo Abe has been reelected to replace him.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,215737,00.html
Any thoughts on this? Abe seems too nationalistic for my tastes.
Franberry
28-09-2006, 15:35
He seems to be a warhawk
Farnhamia
28-09-2006, 15:42
What does one send the new Japanese Prime Minister as a congratulatory gift? :confused:
Teh_pantless_hero
28-09-2006, 15:43
What does one send the new Japanese Prime Minister as a congratulatory gift? :confused:

http://www.w00kie.com/uploads/movies/hardgay.jpg

Well I'm going to hell now.
Soviestan
28-09-2006, 15:45
This guy is going to start WW3. Don't laugh, just give him some time.
Hamilay
28-09-2006, 15:47
This guy is going to start WW3. Don't laugh, just give him some time.
That was something along the lines of my initial thought too, but he's in favour of stronger relations with both USA and China. Could even be a mediator in the event of WW3.
Outreimer
28-09-2006, 15:55
This is a type of a strong leader that Japan needs right now.
Daistallia 2104
28-09-2006, 16:16
I haven't seen any threads on this lately, so I thought I'd start one. Koizumi has finished his term and Shinzo Abe has been reelected to replace him.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,215737,00.html
Any thoughts on this? Abe seems too nationalistic for my tastes.

Well, he's visited Yasukuni, he's not said he won't officially go and prey to the war criminals enshrined at Yasukuni, he denies the Class A war criminals conviceted by an international tribunal were war criminals, he denies the existance "comfort women" (rape camps), and has other objectionable views.

To put that in terms that most people here will be more familiar with, imagine if Chancellor Merkel of German denied the Holocaust, said the Nazi's convicted by the Nuremberg Trials were not war criminals, and prayed to Adolf Hitler.

He seems to be a warhawk

As close as any mainstream Japanese politician can - which means "maybe we ought to sort of think about legalising the military, if that's kind of OK with everybody?"

What does one send the new Japanese Prime Minister as a congratulatory gift? :confused:

Maybe one of those fire bombs the Uyoku (ultra-right-wingers) like to toss at politicians, like Koichi Kato, who suggest that praying to war crimninals maybe isn't so smart. [1 (http://www.asahi.com/english/column/TKY200609060452.html)]

http://www.w00kie.com/uploads/movies/hardgay.jpg

Well I'm going to hell now.

Yes, you are.

;)
Soviestan
28-09-2006, 16:18
That was something along the lines of my initial thought too, but he's in favour of stronger relations with both USA and China. Could even be a mediator in the event of WW3.

Isnt he also in favour of restoring Japan's military past?
Greyenivol Colony
28-09-2006, 16:20
Meh... he seems like yet another charisma-less non-entity of a Japanese prime minister. I appreciate the conciliatory tone his policy towards Korea and China, and yes, it is only right that Japan, as a modern liberal nation, should seek to exert its influence diplomatically.
Daistallia 2104
28-09-2006, 16:22
This is a type of a strong leader that Japan needs right now.

Nope. Not at all. He's basically just another LDP hack. At least Koizumi was a little bit willing to work outside the box.

(It's of significant note that Abe's member of the LDP faction lead by Mori. Mori is an idiot's idiot.)
The Potato Factory
28-09-2006, 16:38
Well, he's visited Yasukuni, he's not said he won't officially go and prey to the war criminals enshrined at Yasukuni, he denies the Class A war criminals conviceted by an international tribunal were war criminals, he denies the existance "comfort women" (rape camps), and has other objectionable views.

To put that in terms that most people here will be more familiar with, imagine if Chancellor Merkel of German denied the Holocaust, said the Nazi's convicted by the Nuremberg Trials were not war criminals, and prayed to Adolf Hitler.

Japan is nothing like Germany. Different cultures.
Daistallia 2104
28-09-2006, 16:46
Japan is nothing like Germany. Different cultures.

*whoosh* That's the sound of you completely missing the point.

Would you be concerened if Chancellor Merkel were doing what I said? Would most of the western world object? That's what should be happening in this case.
Farnhamia
28-09-2006, 16:57
Wasn't his grandfather someone official during the Pacific Unpleasantness during the 1940's?
Andaluciae
28-09-2006, 16:58
Koizumi had great hair.
The Potato Factory
28-09-2006, 17:03
*whoosh* That's the sound of you completely missing the point.

Would you be concerened if Chancellor Merkel were doing what I said? Would most of the western world object? That's what should be happening in this case.

Me? Not really. I mean, at least a German leader would have some fucking balls for a change.

Besides, Japan's different. They don't CONDONE their nation's actions in WWII; they just think/pretend it didn't happen.
Saxnot
28-09-2006, 17:04
Koizumi had great hair.

Seconded.
The Potato Factory
28-09-2006, 17:06
Any thoughts on this? Abe seems too nationalistic for my tastes.

Because god knows only Americans are allowed to be nationalistic, right?
Daistallia 2104
28-09-2006, 17:30
Wasn't his grandfather someone official during the Pacific Unpleasantness during the 1940's?

Minister of Commerce and Industry Nobusuke Kishi - who was imprisoned but not tried, as a Class A War Criminal and later became prime minister.
Daistallia 2104
28-09-2006, 17:32
Me? Not really. I mean, at least a German leader would have some fucking balls for a change.

Besides, Japan's different. They don't CONDONE their nation's actions in WWII; they just think/pretend it didn't happen.

So you'd be just fine if the German Chancellor were a Holocaust denier? Honestly? Do you think the rest of the world would be?
New Granada
28-09-2006, 17:34
Koizumi was a legendary man and will be missed.

Shinzo Abe seems to be pretty decent, maybe what japan needs is some militarization.
Soviestan
28-09-2006, 17:35
Well, he's visited Yasukuni, he's not said he won't officially go and prey to the war criminals enshrined at Yasukuni, he denies the Class A war criminals conviceted by an international tribunal were war criminals, he denies the existance "comfort women" (rape camps), and has other objectionable views.

To put that in terms that most people here will be more familiar with, imagine if Chancellor Merkel of German denied the Holocaust, said the Nazi's convicted by the Nuremberg Trials were not war criminals, and prayed to Adolf Hitler.



Not to mention they still are yet to apologise for the genocide they committed against the Chinese and others.
Soviestan
28-09-2006, 17:36
maybe what japan needs is some militarization.
yeah cause that worked great in the past:rolleyes: Thats like letting a child molester be in charge of a daycare.
The Potato Factory
28-09-2006, 17:36
So you'd be just fine if the German Chancellor were a Holocaust denier? Honestly? Do you think the rest of the world would be?

The world doesn't mind Ahmadinejad. Why would Germany be any different?
New Granada
28-09-2006, 17:41
yeah cause that worked great in the past:rolleyes: Thats like letting a child molester be in charge of a daycare.

False analogy. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
TheKBP
28-09-2006, 17:42
Wasn't his grandfather someone official during the Pacific Unpleasantness during the 1940's?

Is that how you customarily refer to WWII's pacific theater....unpleasentness?

Please refrain....it is insulting Ugh.

:headbang:
TheKBP
28-09-2006, 17:44
yeah cause that worked great in the past:rolleyes: Thats like letting a child molester be in charge of a daycare.

I agree with the orignal respondant...Japan does not need a military.

Besides, aren't we (the US) legally obligated to protect Japan? I seem to remember that that was a part of the de-militarization of Japan following WWII...I could ber wrong tho. If I am, somebody (I am sure) will point it out!

KBP
New Granada
28-09-2006, 17:44
Is that how you customarily refer to WWII's pacific theater....unpleasentness?

Please refrain....it is insulting Ugh.

:headbang:

Oh, he wasn't politically correct enough for you?

Don't whine about shit like this.
Soviestan
28-09-2006, 17:46
False analogy. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

wow, great job not getting my point. Keep up the great work buddy.
Daistallia 2104
28-09-2006, 17:58
Koizumi was a legendary man and will be missed.

Meh. Better than many, but not really legendary.

Shinzo Abe seems to be pretty decent,

As I said above, a pretty ordinary LDP hack. As long as he's not a Kakuei Tanaka or another (shudder) Mori...

maybe what japan needs is some militarization.

No. Simply no.

The world doesn't mind Ahmadinejad. Why would Germany be any different?

Hmmm... we seem to be reading different newspapers and watching different news programs.

Ahmadinejad's denials sparked quite a bit of criticism and condemnation.

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4468
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=16869&Cr=iran&Cr1=
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4529198.stm
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/12/6f3acbdf-d5f9-4ba1-8c9d-278c700ae2ea.html
Farnhamia
28-09-2006, 18:00
Is that how you customarily refer to WWII's pacific theater....unpleasentness?

Please refrain....it is insulting Ugh.

:headbang:

Damn, I forgot the [/sarcasm] tag again.
Daistallia 2104
28-09-2006, 18:03
I agree with the orignal respondant...Japan does not need a military.

Besides, aren't we (the US) legally obligated to protect Japan? I seem to remember that that was a part of the de-militarization of Japan following WWII...I could ber wrong tho. If I am, somebody (I am sure) will point it out!

KBP

You're close. It's the series of treaties.
New Granada
28-09-2006, 18:06
Meh. Better than many, but not really legendary.






Legendary for his hair and his devotion to elvis.
New Granada
28-09-2006, 18:08
wow, great job not getting my point. Keep up the great work buddy.

Not, it was a false analogy.

Japan changing their constitution to permit a stronger military is not analagous at all to putting a pederast in charge of children's daycare.

It Was A False Analogy
Daistallia 2104
28-09-2006, 18:11
Legendary for his hair and his devotion to elvis.

Fair enough. At leat he wasn't legendary for Mori's gaffes (Mori was everything dumb and and clumsy you've ever heard Gerald Ford, Dan Quayle, and Dubya accused of, and then some.)
Soviestan
28-09-2006, 18:19
Not, it was a false analogy.

Japan changing their constitution to permit a stronger military is not analagous at all to putting a pederast in charge of children's daycare.

It Was A False Analogy

In both cases your basically asking for bad things to happen. The japanese are a racist, nationalist, and agressive people. Giving them a military would be disasterous, as would letting a pedo run a daycare.
Daistallia 2104
28-09-2006, 18:25
In both cases your basically asking for bad things to happen. The japanese are a racist, nationalist, and agressive people. Giving them a military would be disasterous, as would letting a pedo run a daycare.

I'm going to have to disagree with most of that. Some Japanese are racist, nationalistic, and agressive. But the majority are not.

The first time I went to a ball game here, I was shocked by the total disrespect shown for the playing of the national anthem.

I can't remember the last time I saw an ordinary person flying the flag at their house. The list goes on and on.
New Granada
28-09-2006, 20:28
In both cases your basically asking for bad things to happen. The japanese are a racist, nationalist, and agressive people. Giving them a military would be disasterous, as would letting a pedo run a daycare.

Not at all.

The notion that japan would mainly use its military to start trouble is asinine at the very, very best.

Japan has belligerent neighbors with much larger and stronger militaries as it is, and stands to gain nothing from destroying its own economy by going to war with its trading partners.
NERVUN
28-09-2006, 22:56
Not to mention they still are yet to apologise for the genocide they committed against the Chinese and others.
*sighs* JAPAN HAS APOLOGIZED! REPEATEDLY!

Abe is an idiot in that he feels Japan does not need to apologise.
Laerod
28-09-2006, 22:59
Japan is nothing like Germany. Different cultures.For someone that speaks neither German nor Japanese, that's a mouthfull...
Daistallia 2104
29-09-2006, 05:05
*sighs* JAPAN HAS APOLOGIZED! REPEATEDLY!

Now there's a tricky can of worms full of questions regarding specific wording, sincerity, a deep enough apology, and the rejection of apologies for Chinese (in particular) domestic and international political gain.

Abe is an idiot in that he feels Japan does not need to apologise.

Indeed.
Potarius
29-09-2006, 05:11
The first time I went to a ball game here, I was shocked by the total disrespect shown for the playing of the national anthem.

I can't remember the last time I saw an ordinary person flying the flag at their house. The list goes on and on.

Holy shit. Really?

They sound like my kind of people!
NERVUN
29-09-2006, 05:20
Now there's a tricky can of worms full of questions regarding specific wording, sincerity, a deep enough apology, and the rejection of apologies for Chinese (in particular) domestic and international political gain.
Ye flipping gods, yes! But various Japanese leaders have apologised and it is a little annoying to hear that they have not.

Of course, personally, I feel both sides in the argument needs to get bitch slapped, but I'm too busy right now.

Indeed.
Well, at least my father-in-law is happy. Abe is from Yamaguchi-Ken, so he likes it.
NERVUN
29-09-2006, 05:21
Holy shit. Really?

They sound like my kind of people!
Yup. There's only two times my public school hoists the Hinomaru and sings Kimigayo, the opening of school and graduation (when it is required to do so by law). Every other event at the school has a notable and noticeable absence of the Japanese national flag and anthem.
Kinda Sensible people
29-09-2006, 05:22
Holy shit. Really?

They sound like my kind of people!

If you like sexism and a workaholic culture, they probably are.
Daistallia 2104
29-09-2006, 05:35
Holy shit. Really?

They sound like my kind of people!

It's not active disrespect. Everybody just pretty much ignored it. I'm used to everybody standing and singing at the ballgame. That just doesn't happen here. In fact, when I stood up, my date quickly told me to sit down because I was embarassing her.


The real concern over Kimigayo (that's the name of the song) is in the school system, where there has been an enormous ongoing legal battle over forcing students and teachers to sing it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,,1790903,00.html

edit: As NERVUN pointed out, that's only for graduations.

And before someone trumpets that as a sign of rising nationalism in Japan, consider what it means that those in the government who want this are forced to use threats of legal action, that ordinary people are standing up to those threats, and that the courts are siding against the so-called patriots.
Daistallia 2104
29-09-2006, 05:37
Of course, personally, I feel both sides in the argument needs to get bitch slapped, but I'm too busy right now.

Ain't that the truth.
NERVUN
29-09-2006, 05:44
And before someone trumpets that as a sign of rising nationalism in Japan, consider what it means that those in the government who want this are forced to use threats of legal action, that ordinary people are standing up to those threats, and that the courts are siding against the so-called patriots.
I loved it when the Tokyo court struck down that law and sided with the teachers. I could hear Ishihara's blood boiling all the way in Nagano. :D
Zexaland
29-09-2006, 10:01
I loved it when the Tokyo court struck down that law and sided with the teachers. I could hear Ishihara's blood boiling all the way in Nagano. :D

Who in the wha? Are you Japanese or something?
Not bad
29-09-2006, 10:22
Just in case anyone else would like to hear it

Kimigayo (http://web-japan.org/factsheet/flag/media/kimigayo.mid)
New Burmesia
29-09-2006, 10:22
Who in the wha? Are you Japanese or something?

Well, if you read nervun's location next to his post...
NERVUN
29-09-2006, 11:24
Who in the wha? Are you Japanese or something?
Ishihara is the ultra-nationalist govenor of Tokyo (and profesional dick). Nagano Prefecture is located next to Tokyo and is where I live.

And I only think I'm turing Japanese (But I do really think so).
TheKBP
29-09-2006, 20:29
Damn, I forgot the [/sarcasm] tag again.

Much better! LOL:
I'll the stick from my own ass now!

KBP

;)
TheKBP
29-09-2006, 20:31
You're close. It's the series of treaties.

Yeah...thought so. Is that portion of the treaties still valid?:confused:
Daistallia 2104
30-09-2006, 14:26
Yeah...thought so. Is that portion of the treaties still valid?:confused:

The original treaties (The Security Treaty of 1951 and The Mutual Security Assistance Pact of 1952) were surplanted with The Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan in 1960. That last treaty can be revoked with 1 years notice, but hasn't yet.

(Oh, and Japan was only demilitarized for a very short term. The US remilitarized it quite quickly.)
Letila
30-09-2006, 16:44
If you like sexism and a workaholic culture, they probably are.

True.
Aryavartha
30-09-2006, 22:54
The japanese are a racist, nationalist, and agressive people. Giving them a military would be disasterous, as would letting a pedo run a daycare.

:rolleyes:
You should not expect them to keep quiet about the rising Chinese military power and the Chinese arming of North Korea with missiles and nukes. The US has not done anything to mitigate their fears of this threat, it is only but natural to see the rise of nationalism in Japan. It is inevitable. Every society will react in the same way. Tough luck you don't like it.

The Chinese commies are no angels. They are every bit nationalist and aggressive. They have killed more than the Japs ever did.
Clanbrassil Street
30-09-2006, 23:51
Probably will be even more to the right of Koizumi.

revision of the pacifist constitution, a more outspoken foreign policy, and more patriotic education.
Great, he wants to roll back civilisation.