NationStates Jolt Archive

Most Iraqis* Favor Immediate U.S. Pullout, Polls Show (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/26/AR2006092601721.html)

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2006/09/27/GR2006092700164.gif

A strong majority of Iraqis want U.S.-led military forces to immediately withdraw from the country, saying their swift departure would make Iraq more secure and decrease sectarian violence, according to new polls by the State Department and independent researchers.

In Baghdad, for example, nearly three-quarters of residents polled said they would feel safer if U.S. and other foreign forces left Iraq, with 65 percent of those asked favoring an immediate pullout, according to State Department polling results obtained by The Washington Post.

Another new poll, scheduled to be released on Wednesday by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, found that 71 percent of Iraqis questioned want the Iraqi government to ask foreign forces to depart within a year. By large margins, though, Iraqis believed that the U.S. government would refuse the request, with 77 percent of those polled saying the United States intends keep permanent military bases in the country.

* the word 'still' should be added, cause we've known this for over a year

Hopefully this will influence the politicians who want to be on their constituents good side to ask us to leave and hopefully we will keep our word and leave as promised.

As if Bush & Co. give a damn what the Iraqis think. This poll won't matter. We will have to wait to see how the 2008 election turns out to maybe get an answer on troop withdrawl.

As if Bush & Co. give a damn what the Iraqis think. This poll won't matter. We will have to wait to see how the 2008 election turns out to maybe get an answer on troop withdrawl.

I'd have to agree with your statement, since I did hear President Bush state that he doesn't care what the polls say and that he doesn't pay to much attention to them. (Note: He didn't state that with regards to this Iraqi Poll, it was stated about other polls which I think were about the "job approval ratings".)

As for me I don't think the polls are accurate. I don't care where or what the poll is about. I feel they are misleading and completely inaccurate.

The present administration will stay bogged down without improving the situation just so that they can use the phrase "cut and run liberal" in the 2008 elections.

I'd have to agree with your statement, since I did hear President Bush state that he doesn't care what the polls say and that he doesn't pay to much attention to them. (Note: He didn't state that with regards to this Iraqi Poll, it was stated about other polls which I think were about the "job approval ratings".)


But goddamn it, if democracy doesn't give him a hard on.

I'd have to agree with your statement, since I did hear President Bush state that he doesn't care what the polls say and that he doesn't pay to much attention to them. (Note: He didn't state that with regards to this Iraqi Poll, it was stated about other polls which I think were about the "job approval ratings".)

As for me I don't think the polls are accurate. I don't care where or what the poll is about. I feel they are misleading and completely inaccurate.
This is a true statement about Bush. The liberal base has a hard time understanding this, because they are entirely poll-driven.

If anything, this poll is a matter to be considered by the Iraqi government. The government that was freely elected, thanks to the United States.

Well yeah... they would. But what a nation wants and what it ultimately needs may differ.

This is a true statement about Bush. The liberal base has a hard time understanding this, because they are entirely poll-driven.

*cough*bullshit*cough*

The liberal left has been just as idealogically driven as the right.

And heaven forbid the legislators of the country pay attention the opinions of the citizenry. Since we can't actually replace our legislators, we better hope they actually want what we want.

If anything, this poll is a matter to be considered by the Iraqi government. The government that was freely elected, thanks to the United States.

And if three quarters of the nation wants the government to ask us to leave, can we say that it is anyway an effectual democracy?

*cough*bullshit*cough*

The liberal left has been just as idealogically driven as the right.

And heaven forbid the legislators of the country pay attention the opinions of the citizenry. Since we can't actually replace our legislators, we better hope they actually want what we want.



And if three quarters of the nation wants the government to ask us to leave, can we say that it is anyway an effectual democracy?

The tyranny of the majority has never been an effective way to govern. I don't see why it is any different in this case.

But goddamn it, if democracy doesn't give him a hard on.

though one can't help but get the feeling that that word does not mean what he thinks it means

The tyranny of the majority has never been an effective way to govern. I don't see why it is any different in this case.

The tyranny of the majority is a situation where the majority benefits itself by subverting the rights of the minority through political action.

How is that the case here?

though one can't help but get the feeling that that word does not mean what he thinks it means

I can honestly tell you that I don't have a clue what he thinks democracy means, but you are right, I doubt his definition agrees with mine.

The tyranny of the majority is a situation where the majority benefits itself by subverting the rights of the minority through political action.

How is that the case here?

I don't believe I was the one that made the reference to an effectual democracy. I'm not certain the government of Iraq is driven by Washington Post opinion polls, either.

I don't believe I was the one that made the reference to an effectual democracy. I'm not certain the government of Iraq is driven by Washington Post opinion polls, either.

It is ineffectual because it ignores the overwhelming desire of the populous.

You said that the US is responsible for setting up a democracy, and I believe that this situation gives the Iraqi democracy the appearance of a sham.

Wow! What a surprise! That people would oppose incompetent colonial subjugation and ruthless sectarian chaos... surely this demonstrates a profound lack of gratefulness?

It is ineffectual because it ignores the overwhelming desire of the populous.

You said that the US is responsible for setting up a democracy, and I believe that this situation gives the Iraqi democracy the appearance of a sham.

Nope, I said government. I don't believe that we would support a true democracy. And I still don't believe that any rational government acts on the basis of a Washington Post opinion poll. If anything, ignoring this poll gives the Iraqi government the appearance of responsibility.

Wow! What a surprise! That people would oppose incompetent colonial subjugation and ruthless sectarian chaos... surely this demonstrates a profound lack of gratefulness?

the bombings will continue until you bastards learn to show some gratitude

To be fair interviewing 1,870 people from a country of a population of over 26 million people isn't a very representative sample ...

The tyranny of the majority has never been an effective way to govern. I don't see why it is any different in this case.

In this case, I have to wonder if those people currently in charge want the US to stay because they worry about their safety should the US pull out. If I were an elected Iraqi, I might want to be on the last C-130 out of Baghdad.

Oh, and on a side note, Free Soviets, when I saw the thread title, I thought maybe you were announcing that you were gay or something. Sorry about that. ;)

To be fair interviewing 1,870 people from a country of a population of over 26 million people isn't a very representative sample ...

If the sample is truly random, it's a freaking huge statistical sample.

To be fair interviewing 1,870 people from a country of a population of over 26 million people isn't a very representative sample ...

IIRC substantially less than that are used for most US public opinion polls, and the US population is ten times the size.

IIRC substantially less than that are used for most US public opinion polls, and the US population is ten times the size.
It's a common mistake made by someone who's never read a text on how random sampling and polls work. It's chapter one stuff.

Oh, and on a side note, Free Soviets, when I saw the thread title, I thought maybe you were announcing that you were gay or something. Sorry about that. ;)

gotta generate interest somehow

Nope, I said government. I don't believe that we would support a true democracy. And I still don't believe that any rational government acts on the basis of a Washington Post opinion poll. If anything, ignoring this poll gives the Iraqi government the appearance of responsibility.

The government that was freely elected, thanks to the United States.

Of course we wouldn't support a true democracy, if by true democracy you mean unlimited rule of the majority. But we do support democracy as a planning and execution of state affairs where legislation is not exacted to exploit the minority.

And the strawman that you keep erecting is getting pretty tattered. I have never said that the government of Iraq should go by a Washington Post opinion poll. I said that they should abide by the wishes of their people, and that the opinion poll gives us strong evidence that they are not.

Oh, and on a side note, Free Soviets, when I saw the thread title, I thought maybe you were announcing that you were gay or something. Sorry about that. ;)

I thought the same thing.

At this point, I guess no one can argue that is an unjust occupation.

At this point, I guess no one can argue that is an unjust occupation.Well, Dubya can, and I think there's about 35% of the US who agrees with him. The lizard brain just takes over for those folks, and there's no dislodging them.

Well, Dubya can, and I think there's about 35% of the US who agrees with him. The lizard brain just takes over for those folks, and there's no dislodging them.

The simple fact is, the way I see it anyway, that even if there are demonstrations in Iraq to get us out, Bush can just dismiss it as being organized by the terrorists and ignore the peoples wishes. After all, we are on a crusade and no opposition to our occupation is going to stop Bush from carrying out his holy mission. The fact that untold thousands of Iraqis are dead thanks to the U.S. and more thousands continue to die doesn't factor in to the equation for Bush either.

In this case, I have to wonder if those people currently in charge want the US to stay because they worry about their safety should the US pull out. If I were an elected Iraqi, I might want to be on the last C-130 out of Baghdad.

Oh, and on a side note, Free Soviets, when I saw the thread title, I thought maybe you were announcing that you were gay or something. Sorry about that. ;)
I think all of you are reading too much into an opinion poll. I certainly haven't read the questions in the poll, but we all know how a question can be worded to provoke the desired answer.

And as far as the so-called strawman argument goes, Vito, it's not so. Y'all are the ones that think the foreign policy of the United States, as well as the domestic policy of Iraq should be based on a sample of 1800. This sample seems to characterize the entire population of Iraq. It ain't so.

I guarantee that the politicians there are not much different than the politicians here. And because of that, they would respond with statements supporting the majority opinion, if that's truly what this was. I find it interesting that there are very few quotes from Iraqi pols in the news. It's almost as if they don't support the views of the mainstream media, isn't it?