NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you think its ok to kill yourself if you feel the need to or do you think its wrong? I'm not really talking about euthnasia(sp?), I talking about more along the lines of if you didn't want to live anymore and decided to shoot yourself or kill yourself in other ways. I think its fine if you want to end it all, but do you?

I'm of the opinion that suicide is fundamentally the most irrational thing that you can do.

Do you think its ok to kill yourself if you feel the need to or do you think its wrong? I'm not really talking about euthnasia(sp?), I talking about more along the lines of if you didn't want to live anymore and decided to shoot yourself or kill yourself in other ways. I think its fine if you want to end it all, but do you?I can't really say whether it's acceptable or not. It's tragic.

thats a tricky one, the majority of people who attempt suicide end up not wanting to after counseling. Then theres ownership of one's own body......

If it's something the individual truly feels is necessary, no matter what, then it's better than letting them suffer in life.

The trick is to pursuade them that it's not.

But no human should ever be allowed to get to the point where they feel like that...it's (allowing them to get to that, not suicide) simply not right.

I'm of the opinion that suicide is fundamentally the most irrational thing that you can do.

Why? Seems to me the irrational thing to do would be to stick around in world that does make you happy and where you have emotional attachments to no one and nothing.

I can't really say whether it's acceptable or not. It's tragic.

Perhaps, but life is also tragic.

Why? Seems to me the irrational thing to do would be to stick around in world that does make you happy and where you have emotional attachments to no one and nothing.

Because you could be wrong, and if you stand the chance to experience benefit of any sort, don't cut out. Temporary delusions aside, the situation can always get better (alright, fine, the situation couldn't get better for Hitler, but he's the ultra-rare case).

I think a person should have the right to end their life if they truly want to. But suicide is usually a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Everyone has periods where life seems pointless, but those periods pass. Life is too precious to waste lightly.

Oh shit!

*hides before someone comes in and starts saying that those who commit suicide are cowards*

(alright, fine, the situation couldn't get better for Hitler, but he's the ultra-rare case).

Oh, I don't know. He could have theoretically been sentenced at Nuremburg to a prison term, and then spent a few decades writing books and drinking martinis. Or even escape to Argentina.

Suicide isn't painless, it's pointless.

It's ones own life. If they really want it to end, so be it.

I'm of the opinion that suicide is fundamentally the most irrational thing that you can do.

According to the French existentialist Albert Camus, whether or not to commit suicide is the first fundamental question we must each answer. Herman Hesse would argue that it is the first fundamental question we must each answer each day.

I think suicide should be more of a last resort kind of thing.

I think suicide should be more of a last resort kind of thing.

I think that's generally what it is......there's not much further you can go.

Oh shit!

*hides before someone comes in and starts saying that those who commit suicide are cowards*

Do you really think someone who was truly suicidal would care?

I think that's generally what it is......there's not much further you can go.

Yea, but some people do commit suicide before they actually find the help that they need.

Suicide is the most despicable thing a person could do. I have no simpithy for suicides, it is an act of cowardice and only shows that the person who does it is simply incapable of standing tall through adversity.
I understand there are sad times in your life, but kill yourself over it? Thats just pathetic and stupid.

Do you really think someone who was truly suicidal would care?

No, but it ends up being a crime if they fail to kill themselves. I'm not sure if it's a felony or a misdemeanor though...

If you commit suicide, you're a pussy. If you commit suicide, you're forcing everyone who cares about you to deal with your death. If you commit suicide, you're ending this life, with all it's joys, for eternal sleep. Frankly, suicide is B.S. Emos need to stop using it as their trademark.

Suicide is the most despicable thing a person could do. I have no simpithy for suicides, it is an act of cowardice and only shows that the person who does it is simply incapable of standing tall through adversity.
I understand there are sad times in your life, but kill yourself over it? Thats just pathetic and stupid.

You sir have apparently never been severly depressed or suicidial. Seeing as such I suggest you quietly leave the thread and do not post on matters of which you know nothing about.

Suicide is not worth it and not acceptable. Take it from someone who has attempted it twice and lost a close friend to suicide.

this life, with all it's joys,

If only.

I think a person should have the right to end their life if they truly want to. But suicide is usually a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Everyone has periods where life seems pointless, but those periods pass. Life is too precious to waste lightly.

Life isnt precious, its pointless in all reality.

Only acceptable as an alternative to the dishonor of being forced out of office or going to prison.

Politicians and business leaders should be expected to kill themselves if they are disgraced.

Suicide is not worth it and not acceptable. Take it from someone who has attempted it twice and lost a close friend to suicide.
And who appointed you Judge of these things?

If only.

Well there's nature. And well.... Nature... But nature encompasses so much! It's so beautiful! So pure! How can you NOT take joy in it?

Politicians and business leaders should be expected to kill themselves if they are disgraced.

So most politicians should be expected to kill themselves? :p

(Sorry, tasteless joke. Couldn't resist.)

Wait a minute... I need to get out of here now... This is going to turn exactly like my suicide thread did... And I think I might be playing the role of Dinaverg...

Oh, and Soviestan, there are MUCH better ways to gain attention besides being an emo tells everyone they're suicidal when they're really not.

And who appointed you Judge of these things?

I never claimed to be a judge. But I can honestly say that I am more knowledgeable on the subject than most.

So most politicians should be expected to kill themselves? :p

(Sorry, tasteless joke. Couldn't resist.)

Well, politicians disgrace themselves with their office, but that is neither here nor there.

Do you think its ok to kill yourself if you feel the need to or do you think its wrong? I'm not really talking about euthnasia(sp?), I talking about more along the lines of if you didn't want to live anymore and decided to shoot yourself or kill yourself in other ways. I think its fine if you want to end it all, but do you?

I find the Idea of suicide very disturbing. I believe that it is not acceptable, because not only is it taking the life that may acctually become better, but it is spiritually and morally wrong. For those who say suicide is acceptable, do what you want, but a word of advise from some one who thought about it...things do get better...it maybe tomorrow, it maybe in a week, month, maybe even in a year...but no matter how long, you just have to wait. Also saying suicide is a last resort...there are more alternative ways to it...if you can't get someones attention, you can always make the first step and talk to someone you trust. You can't anonymously send emails to a counslor if you don't want to be known. There is the opption of waiting to see what happens next. There is the religious aspect of praying for things to go right. There are so many things that you can do other than suicide.

I think a person should have the right to end their life if they truly want to. But suicide is usually a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Everyone has periods where life seems pointless, but those periods pass. Life is too precious to waste lightly.

Like Romanar says...Life is too precious to waste lightly. I believe that a person can commit suicide if he/she chooses, but it's never the only or best solution to lifes problems...even if you are feeling the worst you've been in a long time...

Like a BBC news reader memorably called it, "The glass of whiskey and the pearl-handled revolver."

Oh, and one last thing.

http://www.inbeforethelock.com/lockshotgun.jpg (http://www.inbeforethelock.com/)

Suicide is the most despicable thing a person could do. I have no simpithy for suicides, it is an act of cowardice and only shows that the person who does it is simply incapable of standing tall through adversity.
I understand there are sad times in your life, but kill yourself over it? Thats just pathetic and stupid.

Removing oneself from the shear mass of humanity, leaving more space, more limited resources, for everyone else, could be considered the ultimate act of generousity.

I never claimed to be a judge. But I can honestly say that I am more knowledgeable on the subject than most.
And yet, you still said it was not acceptable.

Do you think its ok to kill yourself if you feel the need to or do you think its wrong? I'm not really talking about euthnasia(sp?), I talking about more along the lines of if you didn't want to live anymore and decided to shoot yourself or kill yourself in other ways. I think its fine if you want to end it all, but do you?Just like in the Alita comic, I think having suicide booths on streetcorners is a wonderful idea. There's a good 2 billion humans too many on this rock already, so if some wants to get off the ride, why not make it easy for them?

And yet, you still said it was not acceptable.

That's my opinion, yes. But it's by no means a fact.

Honestly, I have no problem with it. It's an option I've considered several times.

It should only be done after it has been thought fully through, however, and only when the person doing it is in her right mind. Most suicides do not seem to meet either criterion.

Just like in the Alita comic, I think having suicide booths on streetcorners is a wonderful idea. There's a good 2 billion humans too many on this rock already, so if some wants to get off the ride, why not make it easy for them?

Also featured in Soylent Green and a Kurt Vonnegut short story ;)

Removing oneself from the shear mass of humanity, leaving more space, more limited resources, for everyone else, could be considered the ultimate act of generousity.

Argh, Butterfly Effect coming in on me again.... Anyways...


Wouldn't the pain and suffering you cause your family by ending your life be much worse than the joy everyone else has because they have that little amount of resources to them now?

Honestly, I have no problem with it. It's an option I've considered several times.

It should only be done after it has been thought fully through, however, and only when the person doing it is in her right mind. Most suicides do not seem to meet either criterion.

Two most common suicides:

Emos looking for attention going a little too deep.

Actually clinically depressed people who need help.

Also featured in Soylent Green and a Kurt Vonnegut short story ;)

Don't forget Futurama.

Honestly, I have no problem with it. It's an option I've considered several times.

It should only be done after it has been thought fully through, however, and only when the person doing it is in her right mind. Most suicides do not seem to meet either criterion.

I hope you never consider it again. We have our differences, but I respect you a hell of a lot. You seem like a great guy.

Argh, Butterfly Effect coming in on me again.... Anyways...


Wouldn't the pain and suffering you cause your family by ending your life be much worse than the joy everyone else has because they have that little amount of resources to them now?

Not everyone has family. Worse yet, not everyone has family that cares. And all that aside, there is also "going out on top," as in Harold and Maude. (Imo the best suicide-centric film ever made. Oddly life-affirming).
Death is inevitable. Why should one not embrace it on one's own terms?

Well there's nature. And well.... Nature... But nature encompasses so much! It's so beautiful! So pure! How can you NOT take joy in it?

Usually I do, but sometimes not even the beauty of nature can drag me out of my hole.

Two most common suicides:

Emos looking for attention going a little too deep.

Actually clinically depressed people who need help.

Actually, it isn't likely that they're emos cutting too deep. As far as I know, one looking for attention would definately cut across the wrist because when you cut across the wrist, even if you cut a little deep, you more than likely will survive.

Oh, and Soviestan, there are MUCH better ways to gain attention besides being an emo tells everyone they're suicidal when they're really not.

Ok, 1st:upyours: :upyours: . 2nd, I am no emo in fact emos bother me because they are fake and only act the way they do because they want to be in the "in crowd".(whoever thought it would be cool to be depressed or suicidal is beyond me because neither of which are "cool") Also Im going to be nice about this since your a kid, 13 I think, yes? Which means your in school and see all the kids pretending to be depressed. But for us grown ups depression and suicidal thoughts are not something we do for attention, but rather something some of us must fight on an almost daily basis. So like I told someone else, go away until you either grow up or understand what your talking about, please.

Not everyone has family. Worse yet, not everyone has family that cares. And all that aside, there is also "going out on top," as in Harold and Maude. (Imo the best suicide-centric film ever made. Oddly life-affirming).
Death is inevitable. Why should one not embrace it on one's own terms?

Then embrace it when you know you're about to die anyways. Enjoy life while you can. And what about the people with family that care yet still commit suicide? Are they in the right?

Two most common suicides:

Emos looking for attention going a little too deep.

Actually clinically depressed people who need help.

What about people who evaluate their situation, see it as awful, and have good reasons to believe that their prospects will not improve?

I hope you never consider it again.

I hope that my life will always be good enough that there will be no need to consider it, and I hope we can one day have a world where the same will be true for all.

We have our differences, but I respect you a hell of a lot. You seem like a great guy.

Thank you. The respect is very much reciprocated.

Actually, it isn't likely that they're emos cutting too deep. As far as I know, one looking for attention would definately cut across the wrist because when you cut across the wrist, even if you cut a little deep, you more than likely will survive.

That's right kiddies! You go down the road, not across the street!

Suicide should be illegal.

Why?

Because if you were really going to commit suicide, you would have done it without getting caught. Anyone who gets caught is crying for attention.

What about people who evaluate their situation, see it as awful, and have good reasons to believe that their prospects will not improve?

Least common suicides, unfortunately.

It's fine.

Ok, 1st:upyours: :upyours: . 2nd, I am no emo in fact emos bother me because they are fake and only act the way they do because they want to be in the "in crowd".(whoever thought it would be cool to be depressed or suicidal is beyond me because neither of which are "cool") Also Im going to be nice about this since your a kid, 13 I think, yes? Which means your in school and see all the kids pretending to be depressed. But for us grown ups depression and suicidal thoughts are not something we do for attention, but rather something some of us must fight on an almost daily basis. So like I told someone else, go away until you either grow up or understand what your talking about, please.

Well, I didn't know how old you were. If I knew you were an adult, I wouldn't have made the "Oh, emo" assumption. But at this point I assume everyone who is depressed is an emo looking for attention. If I knew that you were actually mature and experienced in life, I wouldn't have said that. But as far as I knew you were 12.

Then embrace it when you know you're about to die anyways. Enjoy life while you can. And what about the people with family that care yet still commit suicide? Are they in the right?

(my bold)
You ask the wrong question.

Well, I didn't know how old you were. If I knew you were an adult, I wouldn't have made the "Oh, emo" assumption. But at this point I assume everyone who is depressed is an emo looking for attention. If I knew that you were actually mature and experienced in life, I wouldn't have said that. But as far as I knew you were 12.

Don't assume kid, it makes an ass out of u and me, but in this case only you.

after a friend of mine blew his chest open with a 12gauge. No, fucking, way. end of story.

Suicide should be illegal.



And a capital offense.

And a capital offense.

that would be irony no:p

That's right kiddies! You go down the road, not across the street!

I don't see why people would go out by slitting their wrists, seems like it would take awhile to die. At least compared to something like a gunshot.

that would be irony no:p

It once was in some places. Attempting suicide was a capital offense.

I hope that my life will always be good enough that there will be no need to consider it, and I hope we can one day have a world where the same will be true for all.

I'll drink to that.

Thank you. The respect is very much reciprocated.

You're welcome.

As I see it, people don't choose to be born, thus if that occcurance bugs them, it should be within their rights to remedy the situation.

As far as I'm aware, most modern countries allow family (and in case no such thing exists, authorities) to commit suicidal failures against their will. As long as that option exists, I see no reason to criminalise suicidal failures. Besides, I think it's just a bit harsh to punish people for failing at failing at life.

The whole obnoxious death-cultism that plagues our societies is something else, and I utterly fail to see why suidical failures should be held accountable for our crap. People die. It's a wholly unavoidable consequence of living. The cultism we indulge ourselves in is completely nonsensical. Someone dying on you is no different from that Ex that left you that you'll never see again.

If people need help, let them have it. If they want death, let them have it. I don't see the problem.

It once was in some places. Attempting suicide was a capital offense.

I wonder if they actually thought about the irony...

I wonder if they actually thought about the irony...

Probably not.

Suicide should be illegal.

Why?

Because if you were really going to commit suicide, you would have done it without getting caught. Anyone who gets caught is crying for attention.

Do you really think that "crying for attention" is a bad thing that should be punished? I'd say it's a bit more likely to be a sign of real problems that need to be addressed. Heck, if attempting suicide and getting caught is the catalyst that gets someone help, then I'm all for it. Responding to an attempted suicide by attempting to make the person in question feel bad or guilty would be colossally stupid and harmful.

Besides, why on earth shouldn't people hurt themselves if they truly want to? As far as I know, my body is the property of me and me alone; if I want to damage it, that really ought to be my prerogative. That doesn't mean I think suicide is a good idea, but I can't see how it's anyone's place to tell me I'm not allowed to kill myself if I choose to.

Do you really think that "crying for attention" is a bad thing that should be punished? I'd say it's a bit more likely to be a sign of real problems that need to be addressed. Heck, if attempting suicide and getting caught is the catalyst that gets someone help, then I'm all for it. Responding to an attempted suicide by attempting to make the person in question feel bad or guilty would be colossally stupid and harmful.

Besides, why on earth shouldn't people hurt themselves if they truly want to? As far as I know, my body is the property of me and me alone; if I want to damage it, that really ought to be my prerogative. That doesn't mean I think suicide is a good idea, but I can't see how it's anyone's place to tell me I'm not allowed to kill myself if I choose to.

You are missing my point. I'm all for suicide if thats your trip. I'm saying there should be a punishment for all the fakers. All the ones who spend my tax dollars sitting at the edge of a bridge and making traffic jams and brining the police. Then that guy should be punished. Because if he wanted to do it he would do it.

You are missing my point. I'm all for suicide if thats your trip. I'm saying there should be a punishment for all the fakers. All the ones who spend my tax dollars sitting at the edge of a bridge and making traffic jams and brining the police. Then that guy should be punished. Because if he wanted to do it he would do it.

No, I'm afraid you're missing my point. Those so-called "fakers" don't generally go out and almost-die because they think it's fun; they do it because they have serious emotional issues to deal with. They are, in fact, as you put it, "crying for attention" - the suicide attempt is a very desperate effort to get someone to pay attention to what's happening to them. They're not trying to look cool, and heaven knows they won't. They're trying to get help in the only way they can think of, and to respond to that plea by saying "you stupid faker, go to jail" would be, frankly, insane.

(And, by the way, your "if he wanted to do it he would do it" theory isn't actually borne out by the facts. I've known many people (my younger self included) who made what they thought were entirely serious suicide attempts, but survived, either due to chance, error, or a change of heart before it was too late. That didn't make their attempts any less real in the first place.)

You are missing my point. I'm all for suicide if thats your trip. I'm saying there should be a punishment for all the fakers. All the ones who spend my tax dollars sitting at the edge of a bridge and making traffic jams and brining the police. Then that guy should be punished. Because if he wanted to do it he would do it.So you'd rather spend your tax dollars on punishing a bunch of miserable twats, than you'd sponsor some help so they too can become healthy, tax-paying members of society?

That's just bullshit. Irrational, counter-productive, hatefull bullshit.

Also featured in Soylent Green and a Kurt Vonnegut short story ;)

Hail the King in Yellow! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_in_Yellow). Chambers is such a fascinating fellow....

So you'd rather spend your tax dollars on punishing a bunch of miserable twats, than you'd sponsor some help so they too can become healthy, tax-paying members of society?

That's just bullshit. Irrational, counter-productive, hatefull bullshit.

Spend tax dollars to punish? What, prision? Naw. Fines. Big ones. Think before you speak next time. Asswipe.

Do you think its ok to kill yourself if you feel the need to or do you think its wrong? I'm not really talking about euthnasia(sp?), I talking about more along the lines of if you didn't want to live anymore and decided to shoot yourself or kill yourself in other ways. I think its fine if you want to end it all, but do you?

it is faggy and unacceptable....any questions?

it is the most selfish thing anyone could do..if your feeling so inclined..get help..never do that to your family or friends...totally pussy move.

i was gonna move on...but you know what.....i'll sit a bit and tell you your an asshole.

my best friend killed himself...devastated his parents(if your looking for attention...ok)but realise...it will last as long as i had respect for him.(which is no respect)

you want to make a statement about how horrible your pathetic little life is..go help someone....darfur for example....they dont want to die...you fucking asshole.

anyone that whines about how they want to die is a fucking asswipe.....go trade places with people that really suffer.

it must be so hard to live your life.

they strive to live,and you insult them cause of what,,,,your some spoiled fucking brat...get over your teenage angst allready.....

i hate too rant on you...but there is alot of people that are trying to survive,and dont indulge themselves in your sick little attention grabbing schemes.

if you need help,as we all do...get it...dont sell your sick attention grabbbing shit to me....i'll help you go!


if not...man up...or women up.....and get some help..i hate people that whine about the cushy life they have
if i am incorrect...please forgive..

As long as their death will not adversely affect anyone - I don't see why it is an issue.

Spend tax dollars to punish? What, prision? Naw. Fines. Big ones. Think before you speak next time. Asswipe.

Ah, yes. That way, not only will they be miserable, they'll be miserable and unable to afford therapy, and (depending on the size of the fine relative to their income) also possibly homeless! What a sensible and reasonable idea.

it is the most selfish thing anyone could do..

I hear this line tossed around a lot in regard to suicide, and I've always wondered how anyone can justify it. How on earth is suicide more selfish than murder, for one? How can it possibly be more selfish for me to take my own life, which already belongs to me, than to take someone else's life, to which I have absolutely no right?

There've been a few threads about this. I started one. I think that if you're really committed to killing yourself there's no way to talk you out of it. I don't think it's selfish. I don't think it's considered moral by major religions (correct me if I'm wrong). But sometimes it is the only escape.

Honestly, I have no problem with it. It's an option I've considered several times.

It should only be done after it has been thought fully through, however, and only when the person doing it is in her right mind. Most suicides do not seem to meet either criterion.

nevermind...i thought you proffered the fact that it was ok if one weighed their options...never mind.

As long as their death will not adversely affect anyone - I don't see why it is an issue.
+1

Ok so suicide should never be excepted and should never be on someones mind. It is definatly not selfish to take your own life but will hurt more than just yourself. So in my opinion there should be a self help line in which people can go into a governmently funded building and get help. In this building they should offer things to make people feel better about themselves. Sometimes talking isn't always the awnser, so they should set up some group activities or games to help treat them. Punishing people for not feeling good about themselves or feeling good about a string of situations that pulls them into a depression isn't the awnser. I would rather spend tax dollars on helping people deal with there issues than spend money on punishing those people causing them to want to end there misery by suicide.

http://aklemai.com/albums/forum/suicide.jpg

well if it's presented as a fiate accompli after the fact there might not be a whole lot anyone can do about it.

i don't really think it's anyone's bussiness to accept or not accept. i don't think it makes a lot of sense to do under most circumstances, but again i don't really see how anyone else has rationaly very much to say about it.

it's objectionable in an overpopulated world only in the sense of those left behind having to clean up after it.

if humans were under populated, that is if the human species were in danger of dying out from there being too few, i can see where that might be an objection. but if anything, the way things are now, i think it's those who object to anyone physicly removing themselves from this world who are being selfish in attempting to deny someone else the right to remove themselves from where they can demand their attention.

=^^=
.../\...

Spend tax dollars to punish? What, prision? Naw. Fines. Big ones. Think before you speak next time.There's administrational costs associated with any sort of punishment. Fining people for failing to off themselves only adds to their trouble, thus making the process of helping them contribute tax dollars to all the crap you need more difficult & expensive. Not to mention that financial problems is one of the key causes for domestic problems, which in turn is one of the key causes of suicidal behaviour.

Further, there's no logical basis for the punishment. It's their lives & their potential deaths. Unless you're talking about slaves, of course.

If it's simply public disturbances you're talking about, then it's a seperate issue, and one that is already illegal. Usually the punishment is a fine. Whether people do it because they're pissed or suicidal makes no difference.

I can only repeat that it's bullshit. Irrational, counter-productive, hatefull bullshit. Asswipe.Pathetic.

i hate people that whine about the cushy life they have

And you know it is "cushy" because...?

Quality of life is subjective, and mere material abundance compared to others in other parts of the world does not indicate that it is good.

Ah, yes. That way, not only will they be miserable, they'll be miserable and unable to afford therapy, and (depending on the size of the fine relative to their income) also possibly homeless! What a sensible and reasonable idea.

Right. Then they will think twice about only attempting suicide.

Should be completely legal. I've thought about it, quite often, though never to the point of planning on doing it. I always joke around with my close friends who know about this, saying that "I don't do it because its illegal", though its more of a cowardly thing. I'm more afraid of death than life. If that were to change, I would do it.

Regardless, its my body and I'll do whatever I damn want with it, as others will do with theirs. Legislating what one can do with their own bodies that does not directly harm anyone else is simply idiotic.

I you want to kill yourself, that's ok for me.

Unless you:
1.Try to kill yourself by inhaling methane and end blowing up other apartments in a huge fireball
2.Try to jump to death from a cliff, just break some bones and people have to risk their lives to rescue you
3.Lay yourself on a railroad track, get killed and trains get blocked while paramedics remove the remains of your body
4.Try to kill yourself by launching yourself with your car past a red street signal and create a huge crash involving other people.

it is faggy and unacceptable....any questions?

it is the most selfish thing anyone could do..if your feeling so inclined..get help..never do that to your family or friends...totally pussy move.

i was gonna move on...but you know what.....i'll sit a bit and tell you your an asshole.

my best friend killed himself...devastated his parents(if your looking for attention...ok)but realise...it will last as long as i had respect for him.(which is no respect)

you want to make a statement about how horrible your pathetic little life is..go help someone....darfur for example....they dont want to die...you fucking asshole.

anyone that whines about how they want to die is a fucking asswipe.....go trade places with people that really suffer.

it must be so hard to live your life.

they strive to live,and you insult them cause of what,,,,your some spoiled fucking brat...get over your teenage angst allready.....

i hate too rant on you...but there is alot of people that are trying to survive,and dont indulge themselves in your sick little attention grabbing schemes.

if you need help,as we all do...get it...dont sell your sick attention grabbbing shit to me....i'll help you go!


if not...man up...or women up.....and get some help..i hate people that whine about the cushy life they have
if i am incorrect...please forgive..

Warned for flaming.

Do you think its ok to kill yourself if you feel the need to or do you think its wrong? I'm not really talking about euthnasia(sp?), I talking about more along the lines of if you didn't want to live anymore and decided to shoot yourself or kill yourself in other ways. I think its fine if you want to end it all, but do you?

i think it's about the most selfish thing anyone could do unless they have no family, freinds, or anyone else who might miss them. then it's just stupid and pointless.

yes it is.

I dunno about you lot, but I wanna die by assassination.

I dunno about you lot, but I wanna die by assassination.

pandas, i'm gunna die by pandas

Ending your own life is a decision you make yourself. Your life, your choice.

There is nothing magical about life; if life is misery, why be miserable? Death is an end to life, and if you consider life not to be worth living you should have the option to end it. Our culture has very twisted views of death – just accept that everyone dies eventually and that death is not always a tragedy.

I’ve been off and on suicidal for about 17 years now (maybe longer, I don’t remember when I first started pondering suicide). I have had some fun times, just as I have had some miserable times. Had I killed myself I would never have experienced the things I have, but so what? Were I dead I would not be aware of any of this as I would cease to exist – the question of what could have been is a moot one.

The choice of whether to continue living or not is mine and mine alone. Nobody else has the slightest right to pass judgment on this decision.

I am very fortunate to have family and friends who care about me. While they may be sad and will miss me, they will cope. Hopefully they will look back and remember the good things and rejoice that they knew me for the time we shared together. This is how people should view death – celebrate that person’s life, not mourn their death. If someone dies by suicide, disease, murder, or accident the result is the same.

Perhaps one day I will get sufficiently bored of this game of life and turn it off, perhaps not. So far I have not really ever wanted to die; I just don’t much care to live. If I decide to commit suicide it is no great tragedy. It is little different than if I decided to move to Zambia. A friend of mine recently committed suicide and I respect his decision – I did not live his life so I am in no position to judge.

Do not call people selfish cowards or hurl other pejoratives because they choose to end their lives. You are bitching about how their committing suicide has impacted your life, rather than accepting that they felt it was time to end their life – who is the selfish one?

Anyone who ends their life on a whim is probably a bit foolish, but most people think about it for a while. They considered life to no longer be worthwhile – who are you to second guess their decision? Those of you who were suicidal should understand and respect that decision. If you have never seriously considered suicide (and I do not include emo kids in this – only if you have truly considered it), then you do not have the right to voice some ignorant and insulting opinion about those that have.

suicide is rubbish, you need more pie and beer, they make the world go round.

Suicide is ONLY acceptable to the person who commits it.

Do you think its ok to kill yourself if you feel the need to or do you think its wrong? I'm not really talking about euthnasia(sp?), I talking about more along the lines of if you didn't want to live anymore and decided to shoot yourself or kill yourself in other ways. I think its fine if you want to end it all, but do you?

Well I dont consider it a desireable activity, and I dont really accept it so much as I tolerate it as a choice made by the only person qualified to determine how much suffering is too much. Most suicides are to put an end to a medical problem which causes more pain than a person can cope with. Sometimes the pain is physical. sometimes it's emotional. Sometimes both. So i kind of look at it like this:If a person hurts so very much that most of his functionality and hope are gone and even his thoughts are mostly about his pain, then who the hell am I to decide that he must stay alive as a joyless tortured puddle of pain? A 23 year old man who is troubled emotionally might suffer every bit as much as an 86 year old man with terminal cancer and have just as poor a quality of life. Some men may just be too sensitive for this world.

A lot of folks reckon that a person who commits suicide is selfish. I reckon that same thing. I also reckon that if you force a loved one to endure hellish agony until he dies of natural causes rather than allow suicide then you are the more selfish one. You have made a loved one suffer in so much pain that he craves death merely to postpone the smaller pain of grief which you will feel when he dies.

I also dont much approve of you-mean-people-will-miss-me-when-Im-gone suicides though. This isnt pain they are suffering so much as a tantrum. And suicide done in such a way as to be gory and spectacular (Kurt Cobaine for instance) is just rude. What is the point? Im happy that people who have the predisposition to do shit like that for the sole purpose of mindfucking kids with the gore can only do it once.

i think it's about the most selfish thing anyone could do unless they have no family, freinds, or anyone else who might miss them. then it's just stupid and pointless.

Its not selfish. Its selfish of the families that don't want to deal with the death of their loved one that killed themselve.

Personally, I think it hurts a lot of people, but ultimately it's your own life.

For people like these:
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f40/ImmortalLeigh/Emos.jpg
suicide is not only acceptable, it should be compulsory. Spares the rest of us their infernal bleating and whinning about how terrible their life is and how no-one understands them.

I don't consider suicide acceptable, whatever the circumstance. But I can only speak for myself.

Besides, people who consider, try, or commit suicide usually aren't in their right state of mind. So giving them help instead of letting them kill themselves seems like the reasonable approach.

That also includes euthanasia, BTW.

Besides, people who consider, try, or commit suicide usually aren't in their right state of mind. So giving them help instead of letting them kill themselves seems like the reasonable approach.

That also includes euthanasia, BTW.


1) Who are you to determine the "right state of mind?" Given that in Western Society we hold the individual above all else, or at the very least like to pretend we do, that would include psyche. The dictomy is actually painful. You can be an individual so long as you think like the rest of us.

2) Perhaps you fail to understand Euthanasia? The way it sounds now, you would have someone who is essentially a stump (No limbs), in a coma, who has left his/her final wishes in writing (as is SOP lately), maintained on life support regardless of what they've chosen?

1) Who are you to determine the "right state of mind?" Given that in Western Society we hold the individual above all else, or at the very least like to pretend we do, that would include psyche. The dictomy is actually painful. You can be an individual so long as you think like the rest of us.
One can err, but when it comes to permanent things like death, erring is not favorable.
Whenever someone attempts suicide and is not successful, they will be introduced to a medical facility with psychologists who can very well make that call. It's not like I would take that upon me, but a trained professional is very well capable of doing so.
It's the same with losing your criminal responsibility once you're intoxicated "enough".

2) Perhaps you fail to understand Euthanasia? The way it sounds now, you would have someone who is essentially a stump (No limbs), in a coma, who has left his/her final wishes in writing (as is SOP lately), maintained on life support regardless of what they've chosen?
No, I fully and very well understand the concept of euthanasia. Right now, the law doesn't condone euthanasia and as long as that hasn't changed, tough luck.

One can err, but when it comes to permanent things like death, erring is not favorable.
Whenever someone attempts suicide and is not successful, they will be introduced to a medical facility with psychologists who can very well make that call. It's not like I would take that upon me, but a trained professional is very well capable of doing so.
It's the same with losing your criminal responsibility once you're intoxicated "enough".


I've been to these facilities, and in a lot of cases, it is not counselling so much as it is brainwashing. But I like the way you phrased that, well done. You can debate well. Good.


No, I fully and very well understand the concept of euthanasia. Right now, the law doesn't condone euthanasia and as long as that hasn't changed, tough luck.


Also good. But euthanasia is legal in Holland and the Netherlands. I suppose you're referring to the United States of America? Yeah... active euthanasia ist verboten, but 'passive euthanasia,' such as the characteristic "pulling the plug" is not illegal provided you have left written instructions to be carried out.

Also good. But euthanasia is legal in Holland and the Netherlands. I suppose you're referring to the United States of America? Yeah... active euthanasia ist verboten, but 'passive euthanasia,' such as the characteristic "pulling the plug" is not illegal provided you have left written instructions to be carried out.

lol, thats the same place bro.

Yeah, I know. I noticed after I hit post the second time, figured I might as well leave it there.

If someone has some awful disease, then I can understand if they commit suicide. Otherwise, I think suicide is wrong. If nothing else, you owe it to the people that care about you not to kill yourself.

I always like to look at the cultural context of this issue some times. In some cultures suicide after a failure was a way of regaining honor. One was looked at as doing it for the good of their family/community/country/etc. Now its odd when your dealing with western societies which are very individualistic that they tend to exclude that from dealing with suicide and often say that person is hurting others by that action. Seems almost contrary to the prevailing philosophy. And my favorite bash quote deals with this topic.

<Neo-Tokyo> wouldnt you say suicide is a permenant solution to a temporary problem?
<`[6]> I'm a Buddhist, I'd say suicide is a temporary solution to a permanent problem.

I've been to these facilities, and in a lot of cases, it is not counselling so much as it is brainwashing. But I like the way you phrased that, well done. You can debate well. Good.
Thanks for the compliment.
I too have been to those facilities (not as a patient, mind you) while working as a paramedic, and I have yet to meet anyone who wasn't relieved or glad that they survived their suicide attempt.
But I have to disagree on your sentiment that therapy and couseling equal brainwashing. Quite the opposite, for professional help usually puts a whole new perspective to that live that was "supposed" to end.
That, or the person was seriously mentally ill and in no state to make that conscious decision in the first place.
Also good. But euthanasia is legal in Switzerland and the Netherlands. I suppose you're referring to the United States of America? Yeah... active euthanasia ist verboten, but 'passive euthanasia,' such as the characteristic "pulling the plug" is not illegal provided you have left written instructions to be carried out.
(fixed :p)
No, I'm only referring to Germany where that discussion has been going on for years (and under the least favorable precondition, too, for there had been "euthanasia" laws before...).
Anyway, something like an advance directive still is the best way to ensure that your will is followed upon if it should happen that you enter a coma. Stating that you don't want to get hooked up to live support usually helps. It only gets tricky when you haven't left a living will in writing. Then it can become a tedious undertaking to get off live support (especially since you yourself cannot make that call and your next relatives are the only ones to do so. But again, taking your rich granny off life support and inheriting her fortune usually doesn't leave a good impression either...)
And that totally leaves out the possibility that you could change or could have changed your mind should the occasion arise, too.

Right. Then they will think twice about only attempting suicide.

So, your actual, serious position is "we should deliberately make depressive people suffer more so that they will kill themselves"?

Just when I think people can't get any weirder, someone on NS General comes up with something like this...

Fuck yes. The ultimate expression of individuality and freedom. Also damn evokative and, dare I say it, a tad "fashionable" at present?

How many have heard of the practice of santhara by Jains ?

It is still being practiced.

http://www.expressindia.com/print.php?newsid=74730
'Over 200 Jains embrace death every year'

Press Trust of India

Ahmedabad, September 30: Vimla Devi, the 61 year old cancer patient who courted death in Jaipur, is not alone in doing so as more than 200 Jains embrace death every year in India through the ancient ritual of 'Santhara', according to a noted Indologist and Jain scholar.

Jitendra Shah, who has been studying the origin and evolution of ‘Santhara’ dating back to 250 BC, said though the recent death of the Jain woman in Jaipur has kicked up a national debate about the ritual with the matter also going to court, Jains from time immemorial have been practising this concept of 'Voluntary Peaceful Death'.

"In Jainism, 'Santhara' is a philosophical concept of attaining 'Samadhi' which dates back to over 2,000 years", said Shah, the Director of L D Institute of Indology which houses some rare manuscripts and scriptures containing detailed references on the ritual.

"On an average, about 240 Jains (both Shewtambar and Digambar sects) attain Santhara, though most of it goes unnoticed and unrecorded", Shah said.

"In Jainism, Santhara means spiritual withdrawal from worldly existence in tune with divinity", he said.

A 2000-year-old Jain scripture 'Samadhi-maran-payanna' at the LD institute specially deals with this concept of 'Santhara' also known as 'Samadhi-maran'.

Similarly, scriptures on 'Acharyasutra', 'Stanagsutra' and 'Vuasagdarshasutra' housed at this Insitute also contains detailed references to this ancient custom.

"As per these scriptures, a person cannot perform Santhara without the permission of their Guru", Shah said.

"A person deciding to attain Santhara first prays, meditates and practices fasting every day. Then the person gradually give up solid food, confines oneself to a bed and finally reliquishes even liquid-diets," Shah said explaining the ritual.

"Though even a 'Stravak' (ordinary person) is permitted to attain Santhara, not everybody can do it," he said adding the ritual requires a lot of dedication coupled with several hours of meditation.

As per the documentary evidence present at LD institute of Indology, the first recording of Santhara deaths began between 250 B.C. and 700 A.D when a total of 24 such deaths were recorded on manuscripts and Jain scriptures.

Between 700-1650 AD over 35 deaths were recorded, while between 1800-1992 three were 37 cases of Santhara.

"As per a PhD thesis done by one of my students D S Baya, in 2004 there were 260 recorded Santhara deaths among Shewtambar Jains while another 90 deaths among Digambar Jains between 1993-2003," said Shah adding most of the Santhara deaths go unrecorded.

According to another Jain scholar and former head of the Department of Sanskrit at Gujarat Univeristy, Dr Tapasvi Nandi one cannot equate 'Santhara' with social evils like Sati or suicides.

"While Sati and suicides are extreme acts of desperation Santhara is spiritual concept where a persons tunes his or her soul with the divinity before voluntarily relinquishing one's body," Nandi said.

"It is not self-killing or self-murder as is the case with Sati and suicides," he added.

It's your life. It is no one else's business what they do with it. You have NO rights to declare suicide unacceptable, because it's not your place to do so. You can say "I find suicide cowardly", or "I find suicide morally wrong", but you CANNOT say "suicide is unacceptable."

Do you think its ok to kill yourself if you feel the need to or do you think its wrong? I'm not really talking about euthnasia(sp?), I talking about more along the lines of if you didn't want to live anymore and decided to shoot yourself or kill yourself in other ways. I think its fine if you want to end it all, but do you?

I can't say. Tho.. In my opinion.... unless your are deadly ill, in pain, with no sign of recovery ...you are a pussy to kill youself. Am I saying the Lord will condem you to hell? NO. And no one can tell you otherwise.. book in hand or no.

It is up to YOU, the individual, the disposition (attitude) and the ability to take shit.. to put it blunt. I do ont feel it is the right thing to do in most situations. I feel it is the weak way out in most situations.

The thought has crossed my mind a few times. A fleeting thought. But I never really contimplated it. If I was to get very sick and in very much pain I might would do it. And I hope I have the physical capacity to do so. In this case I believe euthanasia should be legal. But.. it is not.. It's ok to die from starvation/dehydration slowly .. but not quickly from a shot.

I've been clinically depressed since I was about 15 or so (11 years now). Despite changes I've made in my life and lifestyle designed to help (losing weight, successfully completing my degree, going out more, even getting close to people, being in relationships), taking my medication, doing the talking therapy, I'm just as miserable as I've ever been.

Nothing seems to help, and I can't bear the thought of another 50 or 60 years living like this. It's a fucking prison sentence. I'm perfectly rational, I'm in control of all my faculties, and without even thinking about it I can fake 'just getting by, everything's fine' because I know it helps the people who are around me, means they don't have to worry, and I won't be a bigger burden than I have to be.

Why shouldn't I be allowed to end my suffering if I choose? What's that line, used in oter contexts - 'you can't live your life for other people'. You have to live for yourself, your life is your responsibility. So it's mine, to dispose of as I see fit.

People have the right to do whatever they wish to their own bodies. Killing yourself just makes evolution's job easier.

Killing yourself just makes evolution's job easier.

Interesting... that would assume that either depression (as a proxy for suicidal ideation) or propensity to suicide itself was in fact genetically based, or at least a significant factor, rather than culturally, environmentally, or experientially based.

Furthermore, this hypothetical genetic basis to suicide behaviour says nothing about the other genetic benefits and liabilities the individual might have, which might in some cases outweigh the suicidal propensity gene/set of genes, unless you're positing complete genetic determinism for our behaviour.

But were you making a point, or just looking to trot out some faddish line?

unless you're positing complete genetic determinism for our behaviour.

While I do adhere to a deterministic philosophy, I was not attempting to expound upon such a theory in my post. I was simply stating that, assuming that depression has a genetic basis, those who have it will be much less likely to pass on their genes. If there is some genetic benefit which is complementary with depression, it can only be expressed in the next generation if the depressed person is able to reproduce prior to committing suicide, making it all that more difficult. However, in general, there are no genetic benefits which are expressed more often in those who are depressed than in those who aren't. As I see it, if you are depressed and you kill yourself, you are precluding the eventuality of passing on your genes to the next generation, or making evolution's job easier.

While I do adhere to a deterministic philosophy, I was not attempting to expound upon such a theory in my post. I was simply stating that, assuming that depression has a genetic basis, those who have it will be much less likely to pass on their genes. If there is some genetic benefit which is complementary with depression, it can only be expressed in the next generation if the depressed person is able to reproduce prior to committing suicide, making it all that more difficult. However, in general, there are no genetic benefits which are expressed more often in those who are depressed than in those who aren't. As I see it, if you are depressed and you kill yourself, you are precluding the eventuality of passing on your genes to the next generation, or making evolution's job easier.

?

any genetic benefit wouldn't need to be complementary with depression, it would just need to exist within the individual; if we're talking about 'doing evolution a favour' at the individual level, we may be cutting off our nose to spite our face.

seroiously using depression as a proxy variable for suicide is remarkably lazy and inaccurate.

the idea that depression specifically is wholly genetic rather than based on context, environment, and experience matriceed through genetics, is largely unfounded, and generally without support.

the underlying notion of genetic determinism, developmental unfolding, on which this all rests is similarly unsupported in the literature.

People have the right to do whatever they wish to their own bodies. Killing yourself just makes evolution's job easier.

Shitty way of putting it.. but in the end yes.

Most certainly not.

Suicide is against the law but nobody prosecutes it. It's a dumb law to have. If a person wants to off themself they should be allowed to do it. It means one less mouth to have to feed, one less person to have to worry about, and one less whiney baby to have to listen to, let them off themselves in record numbers.

As for the terminally ill, we put horses out of their misery for a broken leg yet we demand that our own suffer through the worst of the worst. It just isn't right.

However, in general, there are no genetic benefits which are expressed more often in those who are depressed than in those who aren't.

Actually, you may be wrong there. There is a correlation between mood disorders and intelligence, particularly creative intelligence. Whether there's an actual causal relationship (and, if so, which is cause and which effect) is unknown, but the correlation is there.

I have always found suicide to be highly overrated. :p

No, it's a very selfish and cowardly thing to do. And in most (99.99999998%) cases they aren't in their right mind.

At the very least I would make them go through psychiatric care first, with plenty of encoragment on their continued existance, before I ever even thought to let them go off to do what it is they plan on doing. As well as any other type of help they may need. Though in most cases it would probably be best to put them away for a little while, until they're of better mind.

I mean terminal disease is one thing (I'm 50/50), but when you start talking about any other reasons (i.e. reasonless suicide) then I really start to have a problem. The idea of;

1. Making suicide something quick or easy in getting help doing.

2. Having it be formalized or accepted by society as a whole. As a way to deal with problems.

Is not something that I'm at all comfortable with in any way!

If someone really wants to kill theirselves for reason or not, then there's a chance nodoby's going to be able to stop them. But there's no reason why anyone should help them do it or not try to save them!

You may, may or may not have a "right to die," but you sure as hell don't have a right to have us (society) help you! We should be trying to help these people, not help kill them....

Plus it's not that hard to imagine, years down the road, after allowing something like this. Where certain people would be encouraged, pressured or even coerced into "exercising their right" to suicide (or even medicalized assisted suicide in some "humane" and "dignified" clinic)
I.E. No more healthcare or right to work (nobody will or could hire you), something like that etc. If you don't kill yourself.

If you don't believe it could ever come to that. (I really don't.. at least I hope it wouldn't) How about being told by your health care/insurance provider that you have, what they feel to be, a terminal and or debilitating disease (or are just too old) and wont even try to save your life or treat you. And the only kind of "healthcare" they will pay for/provide is suicide?



Removing oneself from the shear mass of humanity, leaving more space, more limited resources, for everyone else, could be considered the ultimate act of generousity.
Curious Inquiry, you so silly... :p


Seriously though, that's quite possibly the worst/stupidest reasoning I've ever heard... wow..just...wow.......!


Just like in the Alita comic, I think having suicide booths on streetcorners is a wonderful idea. There's a good 2 billion humans too many on this rock already, so if some wants to get off the ride, why not make it easy for them?
And your proof for this is?

No, but some people think they are too good for this forum.

I couldn't kill myself if my life depended on it.

Thanks, George Carlin.

I think suicide should be more of a last resort kind of thing.

Well, yeah. It's kind of hard to try something else afterward. :p

Do you think its ok to kill yourself if you feel the need to or do you think its wrong? I'm not really talking about euthnasia(sp?), I talking about more along the lines of if you didn't want to live anymore and decided to shoot yourself or kill yourself in other ways. I think its fine if you want to end it all, but do you?

one could argue that it is a part of natural selection.
but when someone wants to kill themself, they are not thinking straight thus not making the right descision. if someone, in cold sense of mind, thinks they are better off dead, they can do what the like, as long as they dont have kids to take care of.