NationStates Jolt Archive

Just a poll really. Not some long, never ending argument about if god/s exist or not but rather a short snapshot on what you are in religious terms.

Perhaps a short excerpt on how this position influsences your world view rather than "You're an idiot" "No! You're an idiot" type threads seen all too often here.

Standing on their nose always seems to annoy them.

Wherever they're buried

This forum has a search function which you can use to look up all the other polls about religion and all the other threads you're copying with this one.

On their faces?

Serioulsy if people want to believe in God/s then its fine with me. They're free to believe what they want. me I'm Atheist

how about "a-religious"? i don't care if there is a god, don't believe in it, and wouldn't even care or think about religion or spirituality at all if it wasn't for people talking about it all the time... (actually IRL i rarely think about relgion)

Wherever they're buried

This forum has a search function which you can use to look up all the other polls about religion and all the other threads you're copying with this one.

So why are you so keen to reply to this one?

Paxomenia;11730147']So why are you so keen to reply to this one?

Duty to attempt whackamole on all forum-graffiti spammers.

Are the gods standing up or laying down?

I take both the weak agnostic and weak theist stands. Too bad the poll doesn't allow for selecting multiple options.

But then again, when folks do allow multiple option voting, there's a tendency to just select them all regardless of appropriateness. Hmmm.

I find it silly that people claim they know everything in the infinate universe (by selecting the first option)

Surely they are stating that they know 1 thing not everything. Surely Strong Atheist and Strong Theist are equally arrogant positions.

I find it silly that people claim they know everything in the infinate universe (by selecting the first option)

That applies to every option.

That applies to every option.

Not for agnostacism, where you don't know. Not for weak atheism/theism where you think, not know. Theism is faith based (usually) not knowledge based.

I think that a better term for "Maltheist" is Manichean.

I find it silly that people claim they know everything in the infinate universe (by selecting the first option)

Well, there's some point in it - unless it's just some guy's nickname on forum, a widespread view on God is that this is a kind of free-willed entity that affects everything.

I myself am a strong agnostic. We can't know if there is/are gods/God, because we can't even agree on the definition.

What's the difference between a god that doesn't exist and a god that does nothing to affect our lives?

No, that's not the first line of a joke.

I don't believe in god, I'm a evolution lover.

I don't believe in god, I'm a evolution lover.

You can believe in Evolution and god.

What's the difference between a god that doesn't exist and a god that does nothing to affect our lives?

One of them doesn't exist. And one is just lazy.

I exist (I think therefore I am) but I doubt very much I affect your life.

Paxomenia;11730211']Surely they are stating that they know 1 thing not everything. Surely Strong Atheist and Strong Theist are equally arrogant positions.

Not necessarily. A person who has had revelatory experiences would know there is a god. There would be nothing arrogant about it.

However, if someone knows that God exists solely through faith, then I would agree that the believer's faith is as arrogant as the atheist's.

how about "a-religious"? i don't care if there is a god, don't believe in it, and wouldn't even care or think about religion or spirituality at all if it wasn't for people talking about it all the time... (actually IRL i rarely think about relgion)
You're an atheist.

You're an atheist.

As would some strong and weak agnostics be, considering that they might not believe in a god either, escpecially because it's impossible to know.

Not necessarily. A person who has had revelatory experiences would know there is a god. There would be nothing arrogant about it.

Unless of course the revalation was that there was no God and then they would believe that they knew there is no god :)

You can believe in Evolution and god.

However, of the two, only one requires belief and only the other just is, whether you believe it or not.




And I am amused that you capitalized evolution and not God, since usually it is the other way around.

Do I believe in some magical all-knowing being? Of course not, that's just silly. :p

Paxomenia;11730488']Unless of course the revalation was that there was no God and then they would believe that they knew there is no god :)


By revelation, I meant an actual seeing of god. A vision, if you will.

Weak atheist. It doesn't affect my worldview at all, except perhaps a stronger dislike of religious fundamentalists and organized religion in general.

By revelation, I meant an actual seeing of god. A vision, if you will.

So if I have an actual seeing of no gods, I can know there aren't any?

Paxomenia;11730106']Just a poll really. Not some long, never ending argument about if god/s exist or not but rather a short snapshot on what you are in religious terms.

Perhaps a short excerpt on how this position influsences your world view rather than "You're an idiot" "No! You're an idiot" type threads seen all too often here.

The usual batch of "anti-godly" (not un-godly) NS'ers.

But then, "god = parents" to the lot here, so that's quite expected.



So,.. to me:

God exists as a destination that we can be near at any time by simply doing what is right.

God created the world to teach us, and I try not to squander the lessons any more than I drive myself to (by blinding myself through stupidity).

God does not punish, as that is the job of his creation(s).

Impossibilties exist, and the greatest one is God.

Those who would replace god with non-god find a lesson taught by the world which if listened to would point to god.

The only source of comfort is god, as every true comfort will show a single warmth and every false comfort will breed ten thousand itches.

God is not in a book.

God is not in other's words.

God is not pleased but by recognition, and only recognition. You can not bribe god. You can not threaten god. You can not fool god.

God is disinterested in all you do except your simply facing him and smiling.

God does not argue. That is for his creations to do.

Enjoy the show and do what brings you most true comfort while you learn your lessons.

And when it is your turn to accept your mortality,.. try to do it the only way possible and as long before your death as possible.

Weak Theist: I believe in God
Strong Theist: I know there is a God.

I am inbetween those two, I know in my heart that there is a God, but I can't prove it scientifically.

By revelation, I meant an actual seeing of god. A vision, if you will.

Right, so there could be no other type of revelation?

Even so, bearing in mind that people see all types of fanciful things such as I am not sure that a 'revelatory' experience can really count as proof. Hallucinations are not really what I had in mind :D

However, of the two, only one requires belief and only the other just is, whether you believe it or not.




And I am amused that you capitalized evolution and not God, since usually it is the other way around.

In your opinion.

By revelation, I meant an actual seeing of god. A vision, if you will.

Oh, just some just some hazy vision then. I don't think that counts as proof of the existance of God.

Impossibilties exist, and the greatest one is God.

Doesn't that make them possible?

I'm quite certain it is impossible to know for sure if there's a God, that's why it is called belief, not knowledge.
Yet, I do believe in Him, for that is the only possible explanation I have reached for the world and everything to make any sense to me.
And that belief does fill a certain void, a feeling of longing, that would go unanswered without my faith.
Doubt is not necessarily bad for a believer for it makes me revise my standpoint before others can question it.
That makes my belief stronger.
I do believe that there is God, the Creator of all there is, but I'm not sure whether he might actually interfere in our lives.
I know there is some higher force at work when I take a look at how life and nature work.
The more I learn, the more I know, the less I doubt.
One of my majors is the natural science Biology, and Evolution sounds very reasonable to me.
I come from an enlightened, East Prussian and North German, Lutheran Protestant family background.
I went to a Catholic kindergarden.
I decided to be babtized at age 14, my parents decided to let me make that choice, and I had my confirmation shortly thereafter.
My tax assessment notice reads Evangelical Lutheran, but I don't go to church on a regular basis, usually only once or twice a year.
I pray to God about 4-5 times a week.

So, please, do tell, where exactly do I fit into that poll up there?

I was just watching this nature show and this spider paralyses an animal plants it eggs inside and later the eggs hatch and the spider babies eat the animal from the inside out while its still alive.

What kind of a sick fuck would create an insect like that?

So, please, do tell, where exactly do I fit into that poll up there?

That's kind of the question I asked you :) Weak theist? Personally I am somewhere between weak athiest and strong agnostic. I only had 10 options and only used 9.

I'm quite certain it is impossible to know for sure if there's a God, that's why it is called belief, not knowledge.
Yet, I do believe in Him, for that is the only possible explanation I have reached for the world and everything to make any sense to me.
And that belief does fill a certain void, a feeling of longing, that would go unanswered without my faith.
Doubt is not necessarily bad for a believer for it makes me revise my standpoint before others can question it.
That makes my belief stronger.
I do believe that there is God, the Creator of all there is, but I'm not sure whether he might actually interfere in our lives.
I know there is some higher force at work when I take a look at how life and nature work.
The more I learn, the more I know, the less I doubt.
One of my majors is the natural science Biology, and Evolution sounds very reasonable to me.
I come from an enlightened, East Prussian and North German, Lutheran Protestant family background.
I went to a Catholic kindergarden.
I decided to be babtized at age 14, my parents decided to let me make that choice, and I had my confirmation shortly thereafter.
My tax assessment notice reads Evangelical Lutheran, but I don't go to church on a regular basis, usually only once or twice a year
I pray to God about 4-5 times a week.

So, please, do tell, where exactly do I fit into that poll up there?

Agnostic Theist, don't ask me about strong or weak.

You can believe in Evolution and god.

It's really impossible for me to think that way.

I start to say "well, maybe.." and then I think of science and whatever the fuck.. then I lose all interest.

I am really anti-religion.

It really just seems like some.. un-needed thing to me.

So if I have an actual seeing of no gods, I can know there aren't any?

I guess so, but you would be better off asking someone who took a logic class. I like to stay in the realm of the practical.

What is an actual seeing of no gods?

When I talk about a revelation or vision in spritual terms, I mean an ecstactic experience of communion, not unlike a transcendental experience or attaining zen enlightenment.

I do not see how it is possible to have a 'vision of no gods',unless you are using the term 'vision' in a manner different than the one I am using.

I guess so, but you would be better off asking someone who took a logic class. I like to stay in the realm of the practical.

What is an actual seeing of no gods?

When I talk about a revelation or vision in spritual terms, I mean an ecstactic experience of communion, not unlike a transcendental experience or attaining zen enlightenment.

I do not see how it is possible to have a 'vision of no gods',unless you are using the term 'vision' in a manner different than the one I am using.

*shrug* Hell if I know. An ecstactic feeling of the void?

Paxomenia;11730607']Right, so there could be no other type of revelation?

Even so, bearing in mind that people see all types of fanciful things such as I am not sure that a 'revelatory' experience can really count as proof. Hallucinations are not really what I had in mind :D

Of course there can be different types of revelations. Science is one revelation after another. I had a profound revelation about the nature of love the other day, but it had nothing to do with god.

I mean, specifically, a revelation where one sees and feels god. I think you know that and you are teasing me a bit. Who would have thought this could happen on NSG?:)

True. Such a revelation would never count as proof. Since it is impossible to recreate a vision under controlled condition, nor measure one in a quantitative manner, visions and revelations could never be brought forth as evidence of the existence of god, except in the mind of the person who experienced them.

Paxomenia;11730445']One of them doesn't exist. And one is just lazy.

I exist (I think therefore I am) but I doubt very much I affect your life.
You just did, in a very small way. Enough for me to know you - or, at least something claiming to be you - exists.

If there were some person living in a tribe a long way away, and no member of that tribe had ever had any contact at all with any human outside the tribe (I'm quite sure that's impossible of itself) they would still affect me, if by no other reason than their mass would slightly change the gravitational forces I'm subjected to. Imperceptibly, undoubtedly, but they've still affected me, without me even knowing they exist.

But if something had never had any effect on you whatsoever, no matter how insignificant, how could you - why would you - claim it existed? What for? It wouldn't explain anything, be anything, do anything.
Edit: Would it even be possible for it to exist?
Edit2: Closer to you than about 14 billion lightyears, at any rate, unless there is anything capable of travelling faster than light.

Oh, just some just some hazy vision then. I don't think that counts as proof of the existance of God.

Even if it was a very clear and precise vision of god, with pie charts and everything, it would still not count as proof of the existence of God, except to those who experienced it.

I'm certain it is impossible to know if there is a god UNLESS he somehow reveals himself. Does that qualify for strong agnosticism?
Furthermore, what is the definition of "god"?

*shrug* Hell if I know. An ecstactic feeling of the void?


That would be interesting. Have you ever spoken with someone who experienced this?

Even if it was a very clear and precise vision of god, with pie charts and everything, it would still not count as proof of the existence of God, except to those who experienced it.

I have strange visions myself, although I just put them down to human imagination. I don't see how anybody can know anything based on just a vision.

That would be interesting. Have you ever spoken with someone who experienced this?

Not really. Then again, I never really ask about those sorts of things.

Paxomenia;11730646']That's kind of the question I asked you :) Weak theist? Personally I am somewhere between weak athiest and strong agnostic. I only had 10 options and only used 9.
Polls never have enough options ;)

Is weak theist compatible with a strong faith in God?
Agnostic Theist, don't ask me about strong or weak.
Is there such a thing as an agnostic theist?!?

BTW, I voted Deist on the poll.

I don't know if God is there (agnostic?), yet I strongly believe in Him (theist?), for it gives me something that would otherwise be unanswered for (spiritualist?), but He doesn't have to interfere in my life for me to believe in Him (deist?).

This is really interesting!

I have strange visions myself, although I just put them down to human imagination. I don't see how anybody can know anything based on just a vision.

I think it would depend on the type of vision and frequency.

If a person has several visions a day about bugs crawling all over him or her, then he or she is probably a little psychotic.

If a person, very briefly and infrequently, has visions of a beatific oneness with all creation, yet in all other respects acts completely sane, then he or she may be a little psychotic or it may be the real thing. But for that person, it would be irrefutable knowledge of the existence of god.

You forgot one poll option:

Deity: I AM a God. :p

Polls never have enough options ;)

Is weak theist compatible with a strong faith in God?

Is there such a thing as an agnostic theist?!?

BTW, I voted Deist on the poll.

I don't know if God is there (agnostic?), yet I strongly believe in Him (theist?), for it gives me something that would otherwise be unanswered for (spiritualist?), but He doesn't have to interfere in my life for me to believe in Him (deist?).

This is really interesting!

Well, yeah. The only things mutually exclusive would be atheism and theism. And deism and maltheism fall under theism. So any other combination would work, concievably.

You forgot one poll option:

Deity: I AM a God.

yes, i would have gone for that one too:D

I think it would depend on the type of vision and frequency.

If a person has several visions a day about bugs crawling all over him or her, then he or she is probably a little psychotic.

If a person, very briefly and infrequently, has visions of a beatific oneness with all creation, yet in all other respects acts completely sane, then he or she may be a little psychotic or it may be the real thing.

It would be impossible to tell if it was the real thing or simply psychosis without being that person, as far as I can tell.

How do you know that this vision of God isn't just human imagination, brought about by hope or doubt or being in some weird fucked-up mood?

You're an atheist.

no, atheism requires positive belief there is no god. i just don't care (if pressed i'd say there's no god, but at the core of it i couldn't care less one way or the other)

no, atheism requires positive belief there is no god.

Not really, no.

i just don't care (if pressed i'd say there's no god, but at the core of it i couldn't care less one way or the other)

Let's say you weren't pressed. If I asked, would you say yes?

I'm an agnostic that doesn't care if God exists or not. I am in charge of my own life and responsible for the choices I make affect my life; not some thought up deity that is used to explain away people's mistakes. If he does exist, then I will gladly accept my fate like a man.

very strong atheist.

Agnostic waiting for either maturity, senility or numinous experiance ot convince me. I would genuinely like to have sufficient faith to be religious, however I find myself unable to countenance many of the excesses, inconsistencies and illogicalities of religion.

i beleive god exist, i also dont like your poll. no one can know for sure that god does exist and that god doesnt exist. everyone who voted that they know god doesnt exist is just as ignorant as those that voted that they know god does exist

Could anybody, please, define "God" for me? Thank you :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insignificantia
Impossibilties exist, and the greatest one is God.

Doesn't that make them possible?

No. (..and sorry for mispelling "impossibilities".)

"Impossibitlities exist" is essentially an axiom, stating my belief that there are in fact impossible things that we can name, and the biggest one is god himself.

Could anybody, please, define "God" for me? Thank you :)

That which allows you to feel good for being good.

Do you need more? :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gift-of-god
I think it would depend on the type of vision and frequency.

If a person has several visions a day about bugs crawling all over him or her, then he or she is probably a little psychotic.

If a person, very briefly and infrequently, has visions of a beatific oneness with all creation, yet in all other respects acts completely sane, then he or she may be a little psychotic or it may be the real thing.

It would be impossible to tell if it was the real thing or simply psychosis without being that person, as far as I can tell.

How do you know that this vision of God isn't just human imagination, brought about by hope or doubt or being in some weird fucked-up mood?

The question is "what does this 'vision' do for you?"

The question is "what does this 'vision' do for you?"
My wild guess would be bleeding eyes, migrane headache including a melting brain, ruptured ear drums, followed by being turned into a pillar of salt or pile of dust.

Apparently, I am a Malthiest. According to wikipedia it's known as "Dystheism". Woot. New religion. I always thought I was agnostic, but now that I look at it I guess that I'm not, as I am certain there is some higher power.

Could anybody, please, define "God" for me? Thank you :)

The concept of a creating force that continually influences your life to some degree (depending on religion)

That which allows you to feel good for being good.

Do you need more? :)

Nono, that's chocolate. You can worship it if you like, though :D

My wild guess would be bleeding eyes, migrane headache including a melting brain, ruptured ear drums, followed by being turned into a pillar of salt or pile of dust.
Mmm, smiting...

Strong Agnostic

I don't believe in a god, but I know it's impossible to prove either way, so I'm a weak atheist.

I think this sums up my position rather well.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Epicurus

I would say somwehere between a weak & strong atheist.

I don't believe in any gods & think the idea of them is ludicrous. However, at this stage, I would say that we can not 100% prove, nor disprove, their existence.

i beleive god exist, i also dont like your poll. no one can know for sure that god does exist and that god doesnt exist. everyone who voted that they know god doesnt exist is just as ignorant as those that voted that they know god does exist

I did mention this on the first page "Surely Strong Atheist and Strong Theist are equally arrogant positions."

Although you believe that no one can KNOW that God does or does not exist clearly, according to this poll, some people do BELIEVE they KNOW that God exists and some people do BELIEVE they KNOW that God does not exist.

I am merely taking a snapshot of the levels of belief people hold on this forum on God. I am not saying whether any of the options can be verified or are more or less true than others, simply seeing what views are held.

I also specifically asked that this not descend into a clash of the religious fanatics vs the science fanatics.

I think we all understand that fanatics of various flavours (both religious and idealogical) can be generally held responsible for the vast majority of atrocity and inhumanity in the world.

I'm a strong believer in the Angry Volcano God!

I had to go with "weak Athiest" becuase I dont believe its possible to be absolutely certain of the unknowable.

For lack of a better term, I would be a 90% Strong Athiest.

I do not believe in a God/s.

Im pretty damn sure there is no such thing, but am not arrogant enough to think that there is no way possible that I could be mistaken.

No amount of persuasion will ever make me believe in a god/s, but in the end, I could be wrong.

I had to go with "weak Athiest" becuase I dont believe its possible to be absolutely certain of the unknowable.

For lack of a better term, I would be a 90% Strong Athiest.

I do not believe in a God/s.

Im pretty damn sure there is no such thing, but am not arrogant enough to think that there is no way possible that I could be mistaken.

No amount of persuasion will ever make me believe in a god/s, but in the end, I could be wrong.

But how can you deny the Angry Volcano God?!!?

http://www.nucleus.com/~faxdir/8volcano1.jpg
http://www.nhoem.state.nh.us/mitigation/Mt%20St%20Helens%20wo%20Frame.jpg

But how can you deny the Angry Volcano God?!!?

http://www.nucleus.com/~faxdir/8volcano1.jpg
http://www.nhoem.state.nh.us/mitigation/Mt%20St%20Helens%20wo%20Frame.jpg

I usually tell him I have to wash my hair.

I usually tell him I have to wash my hair.

lol

Mmm, smiting...
Nothing beats a good smiting! :D
I'm a strong believer in the Angry Volcano God!
When was the last time you sacrificed a virgin? ;)

Nothing beats a good smiting! :D

When was the last time you sacrificed a virgin? ;)

When I was 19. ;)

Nothing beats a good smiting! :D

When was the last time you sacrificed a virgin? ;)

I never sacrifice virgins! It pleases the Volcano God much more if I.....well...you know :D

I'm an atheist, pure and simple.

strong or weak? :D

I think this sums up my position rather well.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Epicurus

God has no will, but his original will of creation.

God is not able to do anything, but create the creation.

Evil comes not from god, but from not listening to god.

We don't call a "whom" (creation) god, as god is not a creation.


Epicurus was mocking all those who think of god as "a person" with "godlike" powers.

God is not a person (creation) and has no godlike power, other than THE (singular) power of god, which is the creation of the creation.