NationStates Jolt Archive


jenocide against the muslims?

Green israel
23-09-2006, 18:44
fact 1: since the creation of israel there many muslims were victims of jenocide.
fact 2: the israeli-arab war seen as the main present struggle.
fact 3: by european polls, israel is "the greatest threat to the global peace". 74% of the dutchs think it's true.
the connection between those facts create one of the greatest new-days lie: israel responsible for every problem.

this lies built sophisticastly. after all, you can't blame israel for drafur or the civil war in algeria.
many articles, magazines, internet sites and books created for one cause: make israel seen as non-stop war-criminal state.
for example, try to search in google "genocide" against "muslims", "arabs" or "palastinians" in connection to "israel" or the "zionists".
that mass of works brainwash the populace. israel compared to the worst regimes and proffesors or journalists call for "destruction of the zionist project".

but, the tragedy isn't that israel had bad image. the worst part is that as israel take the blame, the genocide continue silently. mass murder, destruction of full cities and populace, slauther against muslim and arabs, especially by muslims and arabs. it not only opinion, but factual research, acuarate as possible.
but the world is silent. if the world open his mouth, he don't blame the real criminals. he blame israel.
the lie only increase. western press and academies help it get bigger. sometimes it fashion, sometimes mistake, somtime hipocricy. new anti-semitism from right and left acclerate it, and this lies get the support from many israelis or jews.

here is the facts:
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the israeli-arab conflict
the zionist settlement did cause conflict between jews and arabs, but only few thousans of jews and arabs died until the establishment of israel. most of the died by other arabs (see the arab rebelion 36-39) or by the violence of the british (israel never did things in that level).
the independence war (48's war)- 5,000-15,000 victims among the arabs. israel fought on his lives and lost 10% of the populace, 6,000 jews.
both sides did horibble things but much less than most of the modern day wars.
sinai war in 56- 1,650 egyptians were killed, 1,000 by israel and the rest by france and britain.
67 war (6 days war)- maximized estimates talked about 21,000 arab victims from syria, egypt and jordan.
73 war (yom kipur war)- 8,500 arabs dieds, this time from syria and egypt.
the "small" wars- first lebanon war will described later, second lebanon war cause the death of 1,000 lebannese. first intifada start in 87 and end with 1,800 palastinian victims, the secon start in 2000 and stand on 3,700 palastinian victims.
there were also some small operation which cause more few hundreds of arab deaths.
TOTAL: 60,000 deaths among them few thousands of palastinians. compare to the next numbers of deaths, it show amazing fact: the world is obssesed with demonic criticizm of israel, while relativly silent when other milions are murdered.
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those numbers aren't accurate numbers. many groups gave different numbers, and the difference can be hundreds of thousands or milions. anytime there was disagreement the researcher take the minimal number which is agreed to be accurate.
also this table won't include many small conflicts, although they cause more deaths than the whole israeli-arab conflict.

Algeria
independence war against the french (54-62)- unknown death of muslims. by the algerian the number is greater than milion, french numbers were 150,000 algerians and 100,000 more who were cooporated with france. those days experts agreed that the french killed almost 600,000 muslims.
in 91 the "muslim defence front" won the election. civil war started between the leadership and muslims organization. current number of deaths is 100,000 in both sides.
TOTAL:500,000-1,000,000 in the independence war and 100,000 more in the civil war.
sudan
first civil war (55-72)- moderate estimates of 500,000 victims
second civil war- start at 1983, and was more like jenocide. its causes were islamization, arabization, and mass evoucation (which sometimes became nass slaughter), even for conquerment of huge oil resources. the total number is 1.9 milion victims, most of them muslims.
since the radical islam (led spirtualy by hasan turaby) lead the countrey it become worse. mass murders, slavary, forcing islam rules, evacuation, taking childrens from their parents and jenocide cause milions of refugees.
in the last years there is thejenocide of drafur. estimates are between 200,000 and 600,000
TOTAL:2.6 milion-3 milion
afganistan
sobiet invasion (24/12/79-2/2/89)- estimates are between 1 milion victioms to 1.5 dead civilians and 90,000 more dead soldiers.
89-2001- after the sobiets left there were many civil wars between the mujahidins, the taliban and the sobiets supporters which cause 1 milion deaths.
if you justifiely complain about the american invasion of afganistan think about this number: the american invasion cause less than 10,000 deaths. if it won't happen the self-jenocide would've cause avarage 100,000 deaths per year.
TOTAL:2 milions-2.5 milions.
somalia
civili war which start at 1977 cause between 400,000 to 550,000 deaths, most of them by starvation or direct attacks on civilians.
TOTAL:400,000-550,000
bangaladesh
tried to get independecy from pakistan which react in 1971 with invasion and mass destrucion which described by experts as one of "the greatest genocides in the world amongside the holocust and ruanda". between 1 milion to 2 milion murdered by the pakistanian army or by the death squads of muslims soldiers who sent to kill mass murder of muslim farmers. pakistan went out after india (which suffer from milions of refugees) get involve. while they pull out they murder 150,000 more in revenge acts.
TOTAL: 1.4 milions-2 milions.
indonesia
compete with bangaladesh for "the greatest genocide after the holocust".
after comunist rebelion in 1965, their army murder more than 400,000 indonesians in one year. other estimates talk about greater numbers and supported by the general who manage it and claim he did "good work" by killing of "not 1 milion, but 2 milions". we will stay with the accepted low estimates.
in 1975 east timor claim for independecy after portugal left. indonesia invade them and ruled their until 1999. in that years they were responsible to mass destruction and between 100,000 to 200,000 deaths.
TOTAL:400,000 and 100,000 to 200,000 in east timor.
iraq
most of the damage was in the time of sadam hussein. one of the tops were iran-iraq war on the conflict about shat al-arab, the river which made from the union of the prat and the hidekel. estimates are between 450,000 to 650,000 iraqis and between 450,000 to 970,000 iranis.
inner mass murders (political, ethnical or religion-related) cause 1 milion by the locals, 1/4 milion by "human right watch" estimate and half a milion by other estimites of international organizations.
in 1991-1992 there was shi'it rebilion which cause between 40,000 to 200,000 deaths.
200,000 to 300,000 kurds murdered in the time of hussein at the 80's and 90's.
more 500,000 iraqis died because of lack of medicine as result of the sanctions after thefirst gulf war. today it known that this lack caused because of the curroptness of his regime.
the civil war which started after bush invade iraq currently caused 100,000 deaths of muslims.
TOTAL-Iraq:1.54 milions-2 milions
TOTAL-Iran:450,000-970,000
lebanon
civil war at 1975-1990 with israeli involvement at 1982 caused more than 130,000 deaths in the fights. max. estimates about israel activities are 18,000 victims, most of them soldiers.
TOTAL:130,000
teman
civil war at 1962-1970 with egyptian and saudian involvement, cause between 100,000 to 150,000 temanians victims, 1,000 egyptians and 1,000 saudians. egypt use chemical weaponary.
other civil war occured at 1984-1986 and caused thousands more deaths.
TOTAL:100,000-150,000
chechenia
after rusia refused to give them independecy war at 1994-1996 caused between 50,000 to 200,000 victims. chechenia get autonomy.
the second chechenian war start at 1999, and although formally end in 2001 it still continue. this war caused between 30,000 to 100,000 victims.
TOTAL:80,000-200,000
other conflicts
Jordan- 1970-1971 black september rebelion. king hussein slaughtered the palastinians in the refugee camps. they claim to 10,000-25,000 victims, other estimate it in few thousands.
Chad- half of their popoulace are muslims. different wars caused to 30,000 victims in chad.
Kosovo- the muslim area in yeguslavia suffered 10,000 deaths in the war at 1998-2000.
Tajikstan- civil war at 1992-1996 caused 50,000 deaths.
Syria- in his fight against the muslim brothers which end in the slaughter on hema at 1982, assad murdered 20,000 humans.
Iran- thosands to dozens of thousands murdered when the islamic revolution started. more 10,000 kurds killed in iran
Turkey- their conflict with the kurds cause the death of 20,000 kurds.
Zanzibar- get independent in the 60's and controlled by the arabs. group of black muslims take at 1964 the leadership by force and slaughtered the arabs. estimates of victims:5,000-17,000

you can add to the lists many victims in muslim republic once were sobiets, like azarbijan-armenia war, and in african countries with muslim populace, like nigeria or uganda (while idi amin who identified himself as muslim rule their 300,000 ugandians were murdered, but unlike sudean it isn't religion-related).
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fact 4: all the palastinians who died because of the conflict with israel are bit more than 5,000, less than the amount of muslims who died in one slaughter by the bosnis in serbernitza at 1991.
fact 5: since WW2 the israeli-palastinian conflict his the national conflict with the lowest number of victims, but with the highest number of hostile articles and blames to one countrey (israel).
the world can and should criticize israel for her acts, but the obsessed (somtimes almost-antisemical) criticizm on israel is cover (and sometimes even green light) for the jenocide of other milions.
occupation is not and can't be humanic, but if we rate countries for "brutal occupation" israel will be among the last. it isn't opinion, but fact.
think for a moment what would happen if the palastinians were occupied by iraq, sudan or even russian and france. probably something between genocide to mass murder and evacuation.
true, there are other aspects of ocupation, like the refugee issue, but nobody claim to be perfect.
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television morality
why many see it different?
one of the explanations is that the western morality is determined by the television. if hizbulla soldier will launch missle on israel from civilian area, and israel will react and kill 2 childs, the headlines will tell that "israel murder childrens".despite that, if syria will destroy full city or the sudanians will slaughter populace of few villages, there won't be cameras around. thus, people will sign petitions against israel, but nobody will make petition against syria or sudan.
many don't know that although few accidents, israeli acts are defend by jeneva convention (protocol 1 paragraph 52.2).
this morality is tragedy for the arabs and the muslims themselves. israel paid high price, but they are the real victims.
some claims arab and muslim states shouldn't criticized because they aren't democratic. such claim show the western orientalism. its hidden massage is that muslims are the backward kid of the world. it isn't only orientalistic, but racist.
arabs and muslims aren't kids and surely aren't backwards. many of them know it and write it. they know that only by stoping the self-fraud and taking responsibility they can make a change. they know that while the west threat them as iresponsible and unequale he support the racist attitude and especially the jenocide against them.

who killed the muslims?
Israel:60,000
USA:70,000
France:500,000
Russia/SSSR:1,080,000
other muslims:8,410,000
TOTAL (depend on estimates):10,120,000-11,830,000
Call to power
23-09-2006, 18:46
Jenocide!?
Hydesland
23-09-2006, 18:48
Use a spell check next time.

Other then that, well you can't argue with the facts.
Green israel
23-09-2006, 18:48
Jenocide!?

I porpusely use powerful word. if you see the whole picture it isn't such far from that.
Green israel
23-09-2006, 18:49
Use a spell check next time.

Other then that, well you can't argue with the facts.

what facts?
Soviestan
23-09-2006, 18:50
I porpusely use powerful word. if you see the whole picture it isn't such far from that.

Its Genocide buddy.
Symenon
23-09-2006, 18:50
First of all it is spelled "Genocide", not "Jenocide" you stupid fuck!

Second of all, the only way to get rid of Israel at this point in time would require a second holocaust, or a nuclear war between Israel and Iran (which might happen).

Third of all, Islam is an inherently intolerant and violent religion so if they did have the Jews to blow up I'm sure they would be attack someone else for "insulting their religion" and denying them the "right to insane, backwards, primitive religion".

It's that simple.
Hydesland
23-09-2006, 18:50
I purposely used a powerful word. If you see the whole picture, it isn't far from that.

Fixed to for an example to show how to spell.

Oh and it's Genocide.
Hydesland
23-09-2006, 18:51
what facts?

The facts you provided.

Oh and have you got a source?
Green israel
23-09-2006, 18:51
Its Genocide buddy.

I will try to fix it.
Call to power
23-09-2006, 18:52
Its Genocide buddy.

never. ever. do a Google image search for Jenocide! *Covers buttocks*

And its amazing where a cow will stick its tongue:p
Drunk commies deleted
23-09-2006, 18:53
Jenocide!?

English isn't everyone's first language. Cut the guy some slack.
Hydesland
23-09-2006, 18:53
never. ever. do a Google image search for Jenocide! *Covers buttocks*

And its amazing where a cow will stick its tongue:p

Thanks :mad:
Drunk commies deleted
23-09-2006, 18:54
First of all it is spelled "Genocide", not "Jenocide" you stupid fuck!

Second of all, the only way to get rid of Israel at this point in time would require a second holocaust, or a nuclear war between Israel and Iran (which might happen).

Third of all, Islam is an inherently intolerant and violent religion so if they did have the Jews to blow up I'm sure they would be attack someone else for "insulting their religion" and denying them the "right to insane, backwards, primitive religion".

It's that simple.
You're arguing with an Israeli.
Green israel
23-09-2006, 18:54
The facts you provided.

Oh and have you got a source?

I take it from israeli newspaper with no english site, and translate the main parts.
as for the numbers, try google. even radical difference of hundreds of thousands won't change the main idea.
Call to power
23-09-2006, 18:57
I take it from israeli newspaper with no english site, and translate the main parts.
as for the numbers, try google. even radical difference of hundreds of thousands won't change the main idea.

er....
Nodinia
23-09-2006, 19:02
If you're trying to say Israel is not "the great Satan", then I agree. However its a bit "minor demonish" all the same. Settlements=bad etc.
The Forever Dusk
23-09-2006, 19:07
what makes the whole thing stupid is that he wrote such a long post all about a word that he doesn't know. He incorrectly spelled it-that i can forgive, we all spell things wrong..... but he used it completely wrong. he wanted to use a powerful word?!?! at least he could have used an ACCURATE one....but he didn't. according to him, the american civil war, the napoleonic wars, world wars one and two, the mexican revolution, the spanish civil war, the wars between england and ireland........were all part of the genocide against our people.
Katurkalurkmurkastan
23-09-2006, 19:07
Jenocide!?

and here I was thinking that was a clever conjunction of jew and genocide.

i think the OP's grammar is the biggest threat to world peace.
Green israel
23-09-2006, 19:09
If you're trying to say Israel is not "the great Satan", then I agree. However its a bit "minor demonish" all the same. Settlements=bad etc.
settlement=bad and occupation=bad are something I can agree with, and most of the israeli will agreed with that to a part.
the main disagreement in israel is how much from the settlement will destroyed and in what circumances it will happen.
Green israel
23-09-2006, 19:15
what makes the whole thing stupid is that he wrote such a long post all about a word that he doesn't know. He incorrectly spelled it-that i can forgive, we all spell things wrong..... but he used it completely wrong. he wanted to use a powerful word?!?! at least he could have used an ACCURATE one....but he didn't. according to him, the american civil war, the napoleonic wars, world wars one and two, the mexican revolution, the spanish civil war, the wars between england and ireland........were all part of the genocide against our people.
no those were wars. it become jencide when you aim civilians from specific ethnicty on large scale.
some of the wars I mentioned were genocides. you can unite the whole muslim-muslim wars to genocide while they main goal is to kill as much as they can
Keruvalia
23-09-2006, 19:24
Jenocide!?

That's when Max Barry kills us all.
The Forever Dusk
23-09-2006, 19:24
ummmmm, the vast majority of the things you referrenced were just wars too there boy. and you cannot have a 'genocide against muslims' when muslims are a large part of the people doing the killing. why don't you pick up a copy of our old friend merriam and actually check out what genocide means.
Rhaomi
23-09-2006, 19:24
never. ever. do a Google image search for Jenocide! *Covers buttocks*

And its amazing where a cow will stick its tongue:p

Hmm... on the one hand, this sounds like a disturbing image. On the other hand, I have a deep-seated need to investigate things and I routinely make poor decisions.

*searches*

:eek:
Symenon
23-09-2006, 19:28
That's when Max Barry kills us all.

But Max Barry is the Messiah who was born of a Lesbian Virgin who shall lead us all to Salvation and Paradise, Free from the evil aliens attached to our souls and then he shall create the Heavenly Family that is Perfect and then Max Barry will appear to die of decapitation but shall instead ascend to heaven on a horse with a woman's head and nine snakes for a tail!

All Praise Be to Max Barry! (PBUH)!
Katurkalurkmurkastan
23-09-2006, 19:39
But Max Barry is the Messiah who was born of a Lesbian Virgin who shall lead us all to Salvation and Paradise, Free from the evil aliens attached to our souls and then he shall create the Heavenly Family that is Perfect and then Max Barry will appear to die of decapitation but shall instead ascend to heaven on a horse with a woman's head and nine snakes for a tail!

All Praise Be to Max Barry! (PBUH)!

does he know this? particularly the part about the decapitation...
Green israel
23-09-2006, 19:43
ummmmm, the vast majority of the things you referrenced were just wars too there boy. and you cannot have a 'genocide against muslims' when muslims are a large part of the people doing the killing. why don't you pick up a copy of our old friend merriam and actually check out what genocide means.
first I didn't wrote it, but translate it and genocide was the exact used word.
second, arab and muslim are divided to many groups, thus muslim can do genocide on other muslims.
third, by the logic which used by those who claim for israeli genocide on the palastinians, most of this cases are genocide.
forth, all this argument is semantic. you ignore the main part.
Symenon
23-09-2006, 19:46
does he know this? particularly the part about the decapitation...

Because it says so in The Magical Book of Esnesnon:Translated by the Invisible Pink Unicorn, please ignore the fact that this book does not exist and then you will begin to experience true religion.

Unprovable Belief with no connect to reality whatsoever!
Eris Rising
23-09-2006, 19:48
I porpusely use powerful word. if you see the whole picture it isn't such far from that.

Ya know normaly I'm not one to mock spelling errors but wtf do dolphins have to do with anything?
Katurkalurkmurkastan
23-09-2006, 19:49
first I didn't wrote it, but translate it and genocide was the exact used word.
second, arab and muslim are divided to many groups, thus muslim can do genocide on other muslims.
third, by the logic which used by those who claim for israeli jenocide on the palastinians, most of this cases are jenocide.
forth, all this argument is semantic. you ignore the main part.

Genocide! Genocide!

And second, of course the argument is semantic if you're going to cry bloody wolf. Genocide has a specific meaning, and consequences attached to it. Second of all, you've apparently just learned not to trust everything you read, or the language they attach to it.
Katurkalurkmurkastan
23-09-2006, 19:51
Because it says so in The Magical Book of Esnesnon:Translated by the Invisible Pink Unicorn, please ignore the fact that this book does not exist and then you will begin to experience true religion.

Unprovable Belief with no connect to reality whatsoever!

well that's the best kind isn't it?
Katurkalurkmurkastan
23-09-2006, 19:52
Ya know normaly I'm not one to mock spelling errors but wtf do dolphins have to do with anything?

haha can i sig this?
Green israel
23-09-2006, 20:01
Genocide! Genocide!

And second, of course the argument is semantic if you're going to cry bloody wolf. Genocide has a specific meaning, and consequences attached to it. fine, call it mass slaughter ethnically related, if you don't won't to use the exact word.
Second of all, you've apparently just learned not to trust everything you read, or the language they attach to it.
if countrey attack another countrey and proposely kill any civilian in the conquered area, genocide is semi-accurated word.
unless you bring better word, leave the semantic aside and try to read the OP.
Katurkalurkmurkastan
23-09-2006, 20:12
fine, call it mass slaughter ethnically related, if you don't won't to use the exact word.

if countrey attack another countrey and proposely kill any civilian in the conquered area, genocide is semi-accurated word.
unless you bring better word, leave the semantic aside and try to read the OP.

it is not the exact word, since you haven't picked up on others telling you this yet. Genocide is, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, "The deliberate and systematic extermination of an ethnic or national group". Rwanda, the Balkans, the Holocaust, American Indians' treatment in colonial and post-colonial North America were genocide. I have a hard time believing, no matter the propaganda, that a country unilaterally withdrawing from (some) settlements is in the act of ethnic cleansing.
Daistallia 2104
23-09-2006, 20:17
what facts?

Oh my. My apologies, but that has to be the best self destructing of an argument I've seen in quite a while, even if* it was accidental.

*Sorry but in this thread your English has taken a marked dive compared to what I recall from your earlier posts, sending up a "red flag".
Green israel
23-09-2006, 20:20
it is not the exact word, since you haven't picked up on others telling you this yet. Genocide is, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, "The deliberate and systematic extermination of an ethnic or national group". Rwanda, the Balkans, the Holocaust, American Indians' treatment in colonial and post-colonial North America were genocide.I admit genocide isn't the fully correct word to describe what I said, but this correct to a part.
while hussein used chemical weapons against kurds or iranian civilians, isn't it well described as"deliberate and systematic extermination of an ethnic or national group" thus jenocide?
I have a hard time believing, no matter the propaganda, that a country unilaterally withdrawing from (some) settlements is in the act of ethnic cleansing.nor did I said that.
Green israel
23-09-2006, 20:27
Oh my. My apologies, but that has to be the best self destructing of an argument I've seen in quite a while, even if* it was accidental. his post had 2 meanings: or he said he won't argue because this thread is factual OR he said the facts prove my OP is wrong.
asking for clarifaction isn't self-destructive.
*Sorry but in this thread your English has taken a marked dive compared to what I recall from your earlier posts, sending up a "red flag".[/QUOTE]
probably because, I normally didn't try to translate whole article by myself.
Politeia utopia
23-09-2006, 20:53
fact 1: since the creation of israel there many muslims were victims of jenocide.
fact 2: the israeli-arab war seen as the main present struggle.
fact 3: by european polls, israel is "the greatest threat to the global peace". 74% of the dutchs think it's true.
the connection between those facts create one of the greatest new-days lie: israel responsible for every problem.

1) It is true that we all have to fear our own governments the most; the greatest number of people have been killed by their own state during the last century.

2) Though, there are real problems with the liberal nature of the Israeli state, Israel should not be considered responsible for every problem...

3) The Dutch poll has probably more to do with translation difficulties; the question was what country do you consider to be a threat to world peace.

there exists not a concept such as "world peace" in dutch, this will likely be taken as which country is likely to be he cause of a war...

The Dutch have always been staunch Israel supporters, though this has diminished in the last years, there continues to be a lot of support for Israel...
Ice Hockey Players
23-09-2006, 21:17
Hmm... on the one hand, this sounds like a disturbing image. On the other hand, I have a deep-seated need to investigate things and I routinely make poor decisions.

*searches*

:eek:

All right, since you guys are the guinea pigs for me, and I don't care to search for myself, and I doubt others here do, care to tell us what was there?
Dobbsworld
23-09-2006, 21:18
You're arguing with an Israeli.

I thought you was from New Jersey...
Green israel
23-09-2006, 21:20
1) It is true that we all have to fear our own governments the most; the greatest number of people have been killed by their own state during the last century.right.

2) Though, there are real problems with the liberal nature of the Israeli state, Israel should not be considered responsible for every problem... the original authour use this experesion as radical example for some of the criticizes.

3) The Dutch poll has probably more to do with translation difficulties; the question was what country do you consider to be a threat to world peace.

there exists not a concept such as "world peace" in dutch, this will likely be taken as which country is likely to be he cause of a war...I can't see the difference, so maybe it is translation problem.
unless, by cause to war you mean, others will want to fight them, while I understood it as "likely to start wars".
The Dutch have always been staunch Israel supporters, though this has diminished in the last years, there continues to be a lot of support for Israel...well, it is known fact that most polls can be understood in many different ways.
East of Eden is Nod
23-09-2006, 21:30
English isn't everyone's first language.

As if those whose first language is English were those who spell everything correctly.
Psychotic Mongooses
23-09-2006, 21:35
What is the point of this thread?

I'm trying to find one (I am), but I fail to see it. What are you trying to say?
The Forever Dusk
23-09-2006, 22:06
"I admit genocide isn't the fully correct word to describe what I said, but this correct to a part.
while hussein used chemical weapons against kurds or iranian civilians, isn't it well described as"deliberate and systematic extermination of an ethnic or national group" thus jenocide?"---Green israel


it is impossible to have a MUSLIM genocide where the perpetrators are muslim. unless they all intend to commit suicide, then obviously they cannot be attempting to systematically destroy the muslim people.
Green israel
23-09-2006, 22:22
What is the point of this thread?

I'm trying to find one (I am), but I fail to see it. What are you trying to say?
1- muslims kill eachother much more than foriegn powers killed them.
2- as any occupation, the israeli occupation isn't perfect but he one of the less brutal occupations.
3- in the present days, public opinion determined more by the pictures than by the facts or the numbers.
4- muslim regimes that made war crimes should've blame and punished for their acts, for the good of their populace.
5- related to my 3 point, the world criticized israel in comletely iproportionally and obssesed way.
6- justifing the one-sided criticizm by claiming that muslims/arabs shouldn't be judge on the same scale is supporting racist attitudes and the continues murder of muslims by other muslims.
Green israel
23-09-2006, 22:29
"I admit genocide isn't the fully correct word to describe what I said, but this correct to a part.
while hussein used chemical weapons against kurds or iranian civilians, isn't it well described as"deliberate and systematic extermination of an ethnic or national group" thus jenocide?"---Green israel


it is impossible to have a MUSLIM genocide where the perpetrators are muslim. unless they all intend to commit suicide, then obviously they cannot be attempting to systematically destroy the muslim people.by the muslims themselves, shi'its aren't the same as sunis, and kurds are really different thing. black and arab muslims in africa hate eachother, and the palastinians are hated between most of the arabs.
islam is divided in itself and every part of it can logically do genocide on the others. especially if you accept the definition that brought from oxford about genocide against "national or ethnical group".
Kryozerkia
23-09-2006, 22:31
I porpusely use powerful word. if you see the whole picture it isn't such far from that.The only genocide I see here is that of the English language at your hands.
The Forever Dusk
23-09-2006, 22:38
"by the muslims themselves, shi'its aren't the same as sunis, and kurds are really different thing. black and arab muslims in africa hate eachother, and the palastinians are hated between most of the arabs.
islam is divided in itself and every part of it can logically do genocide on the others. especially if you accept the definition that brought from oxford about genocide against "national or ethnical group"."---Green israel


which has nothing to do with a genocide against muslims. that's like saying that the killing of jews in the holocaust was a genocide against white people. just because the group being killed is part of a different group doesn't mean that the other group has anything to do with it or is being targeted in any way.

furthermore, there is the fact that the great majority of your examples were not genocides anyway. as an example: chechnya....at no point in time did russia ever attempt a genocide in chechnya. they could easily do it if they so desired, but they don't.......which is obvious if you pay attention to the fact that the russian soldiers died fighting a limited conflict instead of trying to wipe them out.

so other than the fact that both Muslim, and Genocide are obviously wrong......your statements about the 'muslim genocide' would be completely correct
Green israel
23-09-2006, 22:40
The only genocide I see here is that of the English language at your hands.
see, using powerful word as expresion strenghen your point.
unless you prove it is accepted usage of "genocide", you prove my point in bizzar way.
Kryozerkia
23-09-2006, 22:49
see, using powerful word as expresion strenghen your point.
unless you prove it is accepted usage of "genocide", you prove my point in bizzar way.
Not the way you use it. You're only throwing random words together, and making phrases that make little or no sense.

Your use of "genocide" as a powerful term falls flat because you can't back it up with well-written statements. In fact, you could write a phrase that doesn't use the word genocide and still has the same level of impact.

Further, it's not "genocide" if it's indiscriminate killing. Genocide is deliberate.

gen·o·cide n.

The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

Driving a car full of explosives into a crowd isn't genocide, even if the crowd is Muslim, because you don't know what type of Muslims are in it, or even if the whole crowd is Muslim.
Nodinia
23-09-2006, 22:51
"by the muslims themselves, shi'its aren't the same as sunis, and kurds are really different thing. black and arab muslims in africa hate eachother, and the palastinians are hated between most of the arabs.
islam is divided in itself and every part of it can logically do genocide on the others. especially if you accept the definition that brought from oxford about genocide against "national or ethnical group"."---Green israel


which has nothing to do with a genocide against muslims. that's like saying that the killing of jews in the holocaust was a genocide against white people. just because the group being killed is part of a different group doesn't mean that the other group has anything to do with it or is being targeted in any way.

furthermore, there is the fact that the great majority of your examples were not genocides anyway. as an example: chechnya....at no point in time did russia ever attempt a genocide in chechnya. they could easily do it if they so desired, but they don't.......which is obvious if you pay attention to the fact that the russian soldiers died fighting a limited conflict instead of trying to wipe them out.

so other than the fact that both Muslim, and Genocide are obviously wrong......your statements about the 'muslim genocide' would be completely correct

They've killed over 10% of the population which was only just over the million mark. Given the vast majority of those killed are male, they may well have effectively wiped them out.

And I seem to remember they are "dissappearing" the men from refugee camps at the rate of 1 or 2 a day. Drop by drop.
Celtlund
23-09-2006, 22:54
fact 1: since the creation of israel there many muslims were victims of jenocide.
fact 2: the israeli-arab war seen as the main present struggle.
fact 3: by european polls, israel is "the greatest threat to the global peace". 74% of the dutchs think it's true.


Where in the hell did you learn English? Your spelling, lack of punctuation, and lack of capitalization are atrocious. If English is your first language, you need to go back to school. If English is not your first language, you need to get a refund from whoever taught it to you. I usually don’t rag on people for their bad English, God knows mine is not always the best, but …
The Forever Dusk
23-09-2006, 22:55
"They've killed over 10% of the population which was only just over the million mark. Given the vast majority of those killed are male, they may well have effectively wiped them out."---Nodinia


um, killing 10 percent of a population doesn't wipe it out. never has in history, i find it unlikely to start all of a sudden for no reason. furthermore.....killing 100% of your enemy still isn't genocide.....it is your enemy's own decision that the war be fought. i sympathize with the people, but killing innocents turns you into a terrorist.....and you lose any respectibility as an actual freedom fighter
Kryozerkia
23-09-2006, 22:56
Where in the hell did you learn English? Your spelling, lack of punctuation, and lack of capitalization are atrocious. If English is your first language, you need to go back to school. If English is not your first language, you need to get a refund from whoever taught it to you. I usually don’t rag on people for their bad English, God knows mine is not always the best, but …
The grammar, or rather the lack thereof isn't even half the problem. The real problem is this person's basic comprehension of certain English words... such as "genocide". They seem to have it mixed up with "discriminate killing".
Green israel
23-09-2006, 22:58
which has nothing to do with a genocide against muslims. that's like saying that the killing of jews in the holocaust was a genocide against white people. just because the group being killed is part of a different group doesn't mean that the other group has anything to do with it or is being targeted in any way. as there is claim that israel do genocide against muslims, the title put is as question, and the OP prove that if this genocide exist, he in other places.
anyway, you shouldn't be so connected to the formal usage of the word. if you read it properely, you will see you blame me for no reason.

furthermore, there is the fact that the great majority of your examples were not genocides anyway. as an example: chechnya....at no point in time did russia ever attempt a genocide in chechnya. they could easily do it if they so desired, but they don't.......which is obvious if you pay attention to the fact that the russian soldiers died fighting a limited conflict instead of trying to wipe them out. the "genocide" used few times in the OP. 2 of them were in examples of accepted jenocides, one was in part which talk about the lie that israel claim to do genocide against the palastinians, and one more was expresion to strengh the point of the global ignorance to the real criminals.
I didn't said in any part of the OP that all this cases are genocides, but some of them.

so other than the fact that both Muslim, and Genocide are obviously wrong......your statements about the 'muslim genocide' would be completely correct
as I said, give me better expression or leave the semantic aside.
Free shepmagans
23-09-2006, 22:58
The grammar, or rather the lack thereof isn't even half the problem. The real problem is this person's basic comprehension of certain English words... such as "genocide". They seem to have it mixed up with "discriminate killing".

Or "Hate crimes".
Kryozerkia
23-09-2006, 22:59
as I said, give me better expression or leave the semantic aside.
If you look at my previous post, I suggest a much better phrase: indiscriminate killing.
Kryozerkia
23-09-2006, 23:00
Or "Hate crimes".
I would think hate crimes seems to be something that would be applied to a small, isolated case.
IL Ruffino
23-09-2006, 23:01
I porpusely use powerful word. if you see the whole picture it isn't such far from that.

Lol.
New Domici
23-09-2006, 23:01
I porpusely use powerful word. if you see the whole picture it isn't such far from that.

He means "Jenocide?" as in "I'm opposed to the killing of people named Jen, but is it really a massive problem?" because "Genocide" means the killing of a race of people.
The Forever Dusk
23-09-2006, 23:02
"as I said, give me better expression or leave the semantic aside."---Green israel

so you will continue to lie unless i write for you? interesting

"anyway, you shouldn't be so connected to the formal usage of the word. if you read it properely, you will see you blame me for no reason."---Green israel

if you could write well, then maybe i could read what you say properly. learning other languages is great.....but you are obviously attempting way more than you are capable of.
Free shepmagans
23-09-2006, 23:03
He means "Jenocide?" as in "I'm opposed to the killing of people named Jen, but is it really a massive problem?" because "Genocide" means the killing of a race of people.

FFS, he made a mistake. Get over it. I'm sure if I tried to learn Hebrew I'd make worse mistakes.
Green israel
23-09-2006, 23:04
Not the way you use it. You're only throwing random words together, and making phrases that make little or no sense.

Your use of "genocide" as a powerful term falls flat because you can't back it up with well-written statements. In fact, you could write a phrase that doesn't use the word genocide and still has the same level of impact.won't to give me constructive advice? do it, don't blame me for my english.

[quoteFurther, it's not "genocide" if it's indiscriminate killing. Genocide is deliberate.



Driving a car full of explosives into a crowd isn't genocide, even if the crowd is Muslim, because you don't know what type of Muslims are in it, or even if the whole crowd is Muslim.[/QUOTE]
if saddam husein slaughtered populace of kurd city, he know they kurds and he do it delibrately. that stand in the war against iran, too.
Novemberstan
23-09-2006, 23:05
All of it
And I really thought you brought up some very good points in discussions about that whole Lebanon debacle... tell me, are you VERY drunk now?
Jastreb
23-09-2006, 23:08
When and if Green israel the self proclaimed CyberSheep Farmer learns to spell, I might be able to read through the post and understand what s/he is trying to communicate. But, when in the thread's title and the first paragraph is so full of spelling errors, that it distracts from the meaning, it can not be taken seriously. Take the time to at least do a spell check, jeez.
BTW even your name has grammatical errors, country's names are capitalized.
Kryozerkia
23-09-2006, 23:12
won't to give me constructive advice? do it, don't blame me for my english.
...
if saddam husein slaughtered populace of kurd city, he know they kurds and he do it delibrately. that stand in the war against iran, too.
I gave you constructive advice. I explained that your use of the word was off and that you could've very well used the phrasing to imply that you meant genocide without saying it. Moreover, if you know your English is bad, run it through a grammar/spellchecker. As fallible as Microsoft Word's spellchecker is, its English is better than yours.

Further, there is a difference between Saddam Hussein's order for members of the Kurdish community to be rounded up and summarily executed and for some random, delusioned young Muslim who has his sights on Martyrdom. One is genocide, the other is indiscriminate killing.
Swilatia
23-09-2006, 23:12
what is jenocide?
Novemberstan
23-09-2006, 23:13
When and if Green israel the self proclaimed CyberSheep Farmer learns to spell, I might be able to read through the post and understand what s/he is trying to communicate. But, when in the thread's title and the first paragraph is so full of spelling errors, that it distracts from the meaning, it can not be taken seriously. Take the time to at least do a spell check, jeez.
BTW even your name has grammatical errors, country's names are capitalized.Oh, stop teasing, you devil! Been here from may, and says to be so clueless... ;)
Kryozerkia
23-09-2006, 23:14
what is jenocide?
Go to Google and run the word through Google's image search... On the first page you'll see an image of a cow "licking" a man's ass...
Swilatia
23-09-2006, 23:18
Go to Google and run the word through Google's image search... On the first page you'll see an image of a cow "licking" a man's ass...

no. the first thing is a lady in a boxing ring. and don't tell me anything about safesearch, because i am an outspoken enemy of censorship, and thus have it off.
Kryozerkia
23-09-2006, 23:20
no. the first thing is a lady in a boxing ring. and don't tell me anything about safesearch, because i am an outspoken enemy of censorship, and thus have it off.
Ok, so whatever you find is jenocide. :D
Celtlund
23-09-2006, 23:22
won't to give me constructive advice? do it, don't blame me for my english.

Yes, I want to give you some constructive advice. Lear English if you are going to participate in discussions and debates in English.

Yes, I will blame you for your lack of English skills. Who else is there to blame?

Oh, you can also write what you want to say in Word, do a spell check, and then paste it into your post. It will help you with your spelling and grammar.
Swilatia
23-09-2006, 23:24
Yes, I want to give you some constructive advice. Lear English if you are going to participate in discussions and debates in English.

Yes, I will blame you for your lack of English skills. Who else is there to blame?

Oh, you can also write what you want to say in Word, do a spell check, and then paste it into your post. It will help you with your spelling and grammar.

Look who's talking!!
Swilatia
23-09-2006, 23:25
Ok, so whatever you find is jenocide. :D

yeah. so baisically he's starting a thread about women fighting with muslims? how...... random.
Celtlund
23-09-2006, 23:25
Go to Google and run the word through Google's image search... On the first page you'll see an image of a cow "licking" a man's ass...

Didn't see the cow, but I did see this http://myspace-576.vo.llnwd.net/00092/67/54/92344576_s.jpg
Celtlund
23-09-2006, 23:26
Look who's talking!!

Would you care to explain yourself?
Swilatia
23-09-2006, 23:33
Would you care to explain yourself?
you tried to give spelling advice, yet you mis-spelled the simple word "learn".
Swilatia
23-09-2006, 23:35
Didn't see the cow, but I did see this http://myspace-576.vo.llnwd.net/00092/67/54/92344576_s.jpg

i guess your results must depend on where you live or something like that.
Eris Rising
23-09-2006, 23:35
haha can i sig this?

Sig all you want, I'll make more.
Wealthy regions
24-09-2006, 00:01
1- muslims kill eachother much more than foreign powers killed them.
Does this justifies any of the murders Israel committed? What does this fact has to do with Israel? I don't see the point. Isn't it just logic? Christians are also killed more by "themselves" as by muslims/jews/... . Maybe because they live closer to each other. No?

2- as any occupation, the israeli occupation isn't perfect but he one of the less brutal occupations.
How could an occupation ever be perfect? It's terrible unjust, and you know it. About the "Less brutal", I would like to see you explaining this to palestinian kids who are refused to attempt school/ have medical care/do jobs, ... . Should they be happy they're not killed immediately or what?

3- in the present days, public opinion determined more by the pictures than by the facts or the numbers.
Partly true, but I'm afraid it is also determined by the way you (don't) use facts. Which is, obviously, the case in your article. Perhaps, only suggesting, you would understand it more why people ever call it "genocide" not only by looking at the numbers of people killed during the wars, but between them? Or by the way Israel treats the people living in and next to her at the moment?

4- muslim regimes that made war crimes should've blame and punished for their acts, for the good of their populace.
Shouldn't every bad regime be blamed? Why do you only mention bad muslim regimes, and no Christian or Jewish ones?

5- related to my 3 point, the world criticized israel in comletely iproportionally and obssesed way.
Not exactly, the extra attention given to the abuses of the Israeli government are because Israel is seen as a part of the Western world. When the US, Israel, Great-Brittain, France or another western country commits crimes against humanity, ..., it's front page news. It's hard, but almost nobody cares about e.g. African dictators killing millions of their citizens. It's just the way media works.

6- justifing the one-sided criticizm by claiming that muslims/arabs shouldn't be judge on the same scale is supporting racist attitudes and the continues murder of muslims by other muslims.
Not true. It's not because people criticize Israel that they forget about e.g. Darfur. But here again, a lot is because it is the way media work. Speaking of racism; I hope you know the terrible way African jews are treated in Israel?