NationStates Jolt Archive

Was out driving with friends in the benz when I pull up to a corner(Where a certain fast food joint is that has free WIFI). I looked behind me and saw an orange low-rider S-10 speeding behind me. I stopped at a red light, but apparently he didn't-about 2 seconds later I felt a big BUMP from the rear. I got out of my car and went back to the guy. He came walking out of his car slowly. At first I thought he was drunk, however when he did speak I realized he didn't speak any english. I opened up my wallet and asked to see his Drivers license. He hesitated, and showed me his MEXICAN DRIVERS LICENSE.

I turned Red.

At this point I hadn't even looked at my car. I pulled out my phone to call the police and tell them that an illegal had just hit me when I took a second look at his ID and saw his first name:

Jesus.


As you can guess, I didn't call the police on Jesus. I couldn't bring myself to push the buttons. WTF would I call the police on Jesus for?

He didn't damage my car, although his orange fiberglass modded front bumper was pushed in by my steel bumper, so no harm done.

He was a nice guy though, despite his questionable immigration status.

Maybe he was a tourist you mung.

...so what's the problem, then?


EDIT: And, in case you don't already know, it's pronounced HAY-Seuss, not Gee-zus...

Jesus saves.

...so what's the problem, then?


EDIT: And, in case you don't already know, it's pronounced HAY-Seuss, not Gee-zus...

**Shrug**

The way I see it it's spelled Jesus, and usually has Christ after the end.

Maybe he was a tourist you mung.Quoted for truth.

You're an idiot.

**Shrug**

The way I see it it's spelled Jesus, and usually has Christ after the end.

Not down there.

...so what's the problem, then?


EDIT: And, in case you don't already know, it's pronounced HAY-Seuss, not Gee-zus...

Really? I thought it was Hay-Zeus.

**Shrug**

The way I see it it's spelled Jesus, and usually has Christ after the end.

You are a major idiot.

Why didn't you turn him in man? He was probably here illegally, so he already broken the law, man you should've called the cops on him so they could deport his ass back to Mexico.

Utracia is right. Spanish pronounciation would make it "Hey-zeus".

Or maybe he is so unracist that he did not see three different colored lights, and could not tell that the one that was lit up was infact red.

Why didn't you turn him in man? He was probably here illegally, so he already broken the law, man you should've called the cops on him so they could deport his ass back to Mexico.
Veiw post two.

Why didn't you turn him in man? He was probably here illegally, so he already broken the law, man you should've called the cops on him so they could deport his ass back to Mexico.How do you know? Maybe he had a visa? Maybe he had a green card?

Veiw post two.

He should've asked for his passaport then. Jeez this is another reason why we have so many illegals here, no one is willing to turn them in and the police arent equiped good enough to do their job right.

How do you know? Maybe he had a visa? Maybe he had a green card?
If it was a white guy with a Canadian drivers liscence would he still be there illegally?

How do you know? Maybe he had a visa? Maybe he had a green card?

Then why no US License? Either way he broke a law, if not by being illegal, then by driving a license not for this country, thus not legal for him to drive on the road.

If it was a white guy with a Canadian drivers liscence would he still be there illegally?

Without no documents to prove that he went through the proper channels, then yea he's here illegally. Don't try to turn this into a race issuse, it's not, it's a legal and law isssuse.

He should've asked for his passaport then. Jeez this is another reason why we have so many illegals here, no one is willing to turn them in and the police arent equiped good enough to do their job right.Yeah. And since he didn't, we have no way of knowing whether he was illegal or not. So stop pretending that he is.

Once in spanish class we had to pick out "mexican" names [don't bitch at me for that one, teachers idea] I knew that Jesus was "HAY-Seuss", but I kept saying "I want to be Gee-zus!"

"No Daniel, it's not pronounced that way."

"The Bible says so."

-

I love being atheist and living in Virginia.

Yeah. And since he didn't, we have no way of knowing whether he was illegal or not. So stop pretending that he is.

I'm willing to bet $500 that he was.

Then why no US License? Either way he broke a law, if not by being illegal, then by driving a license not for this country, thus not legal for him to drive on the road.I don't have a US license. I'm here. Not illegally.

BTW, do you know that he had no international driver's license in addition to the Mexican one?

I'm willing to bet $500 that he was.Find him then.

Not sure how they teach it elsewhere in the country (I'm in Texas), but here they teach that Spanish doesn't really have a "Z" sound like English does, and that would make it sound more like Hey-seuss (as in dr. Seuss) than Hey-zeus.

/nitpicking

Regardless of whether or not the guy was an illegal or not this is still a perfect example on a grassroots level of why English should be made and enforced as the official language.

Regardless of whether or not the guy was an illegal or not this is still a perfect example on a grassroots level of why English should be made and enforced as the official language.

And how would you enforce that?

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

We wouldn't be having this discussion about whether or not he was an illegal if he could have communicated with the original poster enough to be asked.

We wouldn't be having this discussion about whether or not he was an illegal if he could have communicated with the original poster enough to be asked.

Yeah, because anyone in such a situation would certainly be completely honest.

We wouldn't be having this discussion about whether or not he was an illegal if he could have communicated with the original poster enough to be asked.

No, we almost certainly would have.

We wouldn't be having this discussion about whether or not he was an illegal if he could have communicated with the original poster enough to be asked.Actually, we might be if he happened to be a tourist.

Maybe he was a tourist you mung.

Yes, because there are tons of mexicans who tour the United States. Especially in such an expensive car.

Yes, because there are tons of mexicans who tour the United States. Especially in such an expensive car.Only need one.

So, if I bumped into you, and showed you my British drivers license, you'd phone the police on me as an "illegal" and attempt to get my deported? Morons.

Yes, because there are tons of mexicans who tour the United States. Especially in such an expensive car.

S-10 Trucks are not that expensive.

Yes, because there are tons of mexicans who tour the United States. Especially in such an expensive car.

And somehow you think an illegal would be able to afford a car? Oh, right. He must have stolen it, because he's Mexican and doesn't have a visa.

Actually, the fact that he couldn't speak English leans more towards him being a tourist, rather than an illegal.

this makes me worry about the driving ability of Mexicans and how much a Mexican driving license is really worth….

Also the other guy is an idiot he should have been like “what the F*ck you came out of nowhere!“ especially if he’s a young person who’s already paying too much for his car insurance!

Yeah, because anyone in such a situation would certainly be completely honest.

So you're declaring that all illegals are dishonest?

So, if I bumped into you, and showed you my British drivers license, you'd phone the police on me as an "illegal" and attempt to get my deported? Morons.

Nah, I would call you in for driving without a proper license.

Actually, the fact that he couldn't speak English leans more towards him being a tourist, rather than an illegal.

Not really, there are many illegals that don't speak English...

So you're declaring that all illegals are dishonest?

If I were an "illegal" in that position, I would lie, and I would be right to do so. It is not, after all, just my own welfare that may be at stake; I may have a family to worry about as well.

Some "illegals" might be more honest than I am. But I highly doubt that every one of them is so honest as to avoid lying in that circumstance.

Nah, I would call you in for driving without a proper license.

Except, y'know, the British drivers license is accepted in America, and most other countries on friendly terms with us. That, and you've practically admitted to calling them in because of their race.

Jesus is in my class. Holy Christ.

Foreign driver does not equal "illegal"

Foreign driver probably equals tourist, possibly equals "illegal"

In addition, even if he was "legal", why could he not have a Mexican licence? Surely if he was an "illegal" he would have refused to show his licence and would have instead driven off?

Except, y'know, the British drivers license is accepted in America, and most other countries on friendly terms with us. That, and you've practically admitted to calling them in because of their race.

:rolleyes: Like I said, it's not a race issuse, it's a legal and law issuse.

And somehow you think an illegal would be able to afford a car? Oh, right. He must have stolen it, because he's Mexican and doesn't have a visa.

Have you ever been to California?

How about even Oregon?

In both these states illegal immigrants are rampant. When I was in school, half of my class could not speak English. It is also very obvious that this half was entirely Mexicans. Now, when they bothered to show up to school they brought their pimped out low rider cars. How did they pay for this? I have no clue, they certainly didn't obtain the means legally.

I also happen to live in Oregon, which is further North than California, which must have a worse problem with illegals.

Have you ever been to California?No, but a Mexican friend of mine has been there as a tourist.

Have you ever been to California?

How about even Oregon?

In both these states illegal immigrants are rampant. When I was in school, half of my class could not speak English. It is also very obvious that this half was entirely Mexicans. Now, when they bothered to show up to school they brought their pimped out low rider cars. How did they pay for this? I have no clue, they certainly didn't obtain the means legally.

I also happen to live in Oregon, which is further North than California, which must have a worse problem with illegals.

So every Mexican residing in the US = illegal?

Methinks you have your definitions mixed up.

No, but a Mexican friend of mine has been there as a tourist.

So can you provide statistics that compare Mexican tourists to illegals?

So can you provide statistics that compare Mexican tourists to illegals?

Can you provide statistics which show that every Mexican in the US is residing there, let alone illegaly?

So every Mexican residing in the US = illegal?

Methinks you have your definitions mixed up.

No, I know plenty of Mexicans that obtained their citizenship legally, I happen to think they are a grand bunch. But they all know how to speak English, even if it is very broken.

So can you provide statistics that compare Mexican tourists to illegals?Can you provide evidence that the Mexican in question was not a tourist?

No, I know plenty of Mexicans that obtained their citizenship legally, I happen to think they are a grand bunch. But they all know how to speak English, even if it is very broken.



So any Mexican in the US who doesn't speak English is an "illegal"?

"I was hit by a Mexican driver. I assumed he was illegal when he drove off. I could not take the time to call him in or get his plates (if any), because its not my job and they shouldnt be here in he first place."


This is what I read.

Why bitch and not do anything?

Can you provide statistics which show that every Mexican in the US is residing there, let alone illegaly?

No, because the illegals are not accounted for on any sort of statistic that I know of. I was just making a point that yes, it is possible for a mexican to be a tourist in the US, but that it is highly unlikely in the situation given when compared to how many illegals there are.

Nah, I would call you in for driving without a proper license.

You know, most states will allow foreign licenses to be used by legal immigrants, students, or tourists. I'm not sure which state the OP is from, but normally a foreign license can be used for up to a year after its owner enters the country.

So you're declaring that all illegals are dishonest?

Are you declaring that all illegals are stupid enough to do something that would get INS on their ass?

So any Mexican in the US who doesn't speak English is an "illegal"?

So an illegal can't learn to speak English?

From my experiences most of them who can't speak english are either elderly, and living with family who can, or are illegal.

No, because the illegals are not accounted for on any sort of statistic that I know of. I was just making a point that yes, it is possible for a mexican to be a tourist in the US, but that it is highly unlikely in the situation given when compared to how many illegals there are.

Surely if the person was residing in the country outside of the law he would have been reluctant to give any details, let alone hand over his driving licence?

Are you declaring that all illegals are stupid enough to do something that would get INS on their ass?

Most of the ones I've run into are. Including a court case my father was called to be jury for a while back, where one attempted to rape the farmers wife that he worked for.

Most of the ones I've run into are. Including a court case my father was called to be jury for a while back, where one attempted to rape the farmers wife that he worked for.

Right, because obviously you can automatically tell if someone is an illegal. :rolleyes:

Surely if the person was residing in the country outside of the law he would have been reluctant to give any details, let alone hand over his driving licence?

It may just be me, but the OP indicated that he was reluctant to had over his information.

So an illegal can't learn to speak English?

From my experiences most of them who can't speak english are either elderly, and living with family who can, or are illegal.

Your post implied the assumption that the Mexicans at your school, because they didn't speak English, were "illegal". By saying that "all" the legally resident Mexicans you know spoke English, you are implying the assumption that any non-English speaking Mexican is an "illegal".

Could this possibly be true? Are you saying that there are no legally resident Mexicans who don't speak English?

Now, the fact that he showed you his driving licence when you "asked" for it implies that the driver in question spoke some English.

It may just be me, but the OP indicated that he was reluctant to had over his information.

Either that or he was translating what had just been said to him in his head.

Right, because obviously you can automatically tell if someone is an illegal. :rolleyes:

No, because the details of the court proved he was an illegal, who incidently could not speak English. And yes, the owner of the farm did get in trouble for hiring illegals, while the Mexican didn't get in a lick of trouble over the fact he tried to rape the owners wife.

It may just be me, but the OP indicated that he was reluctant to had over his information.

Possibly because he was aware of what kind of reaction a non-English speaker in the United States driving on a Mexican license would get? You know, the kind of reactions a few posters have been showing, the lock-em-up attitude.

It may just be me, but the OP indicated that he was reluctant to had over his information.

No, the OP says the driver "hesitated", but then showed his licence.

The driver willingly gave his details.

Would a person residing illegaly in a country willingly give over their driving licence, containing (I presume) their details?

Jesus saves.
Yeah, but he doesn't brake!

Then why no US License? Either way he broke a law, if not by being illegal, then by driving a license not for this country, thus not legal for him to drive on the road.
When I visited the U.S. and got me a nice rental - guess which country's driver's license I used? That's right: My GERMAN one.

Without no documents to prove that he went through the proper channels, then yea he's here illegally. Don't try to turn this into a race issuse, it's not, it's a legal and law isssuse.
While being on the road in said rental, I got pulled over by a police officer. He asked for the papers, so I gave him my GERMAN driver's license. Mind you, I also had an INTERNATIONAL driver's license with me, but he wasn't interested in that one.

And to top it off - I didn't speak a word of English with that guy, only German.

Did he want to see my passport? No.
Did he ask how I got into the country? Hell no.
Did he ask me what I was doing there? Yes, but that was because I didn't "yield to the left". Once he had explained to me what I had done wrong, all was fine.

Nah, I would call you in for driving without a proper license.
As far as we can tell, Jesus did have a proper license.

No, but a Mexican friend of mine has been there as a tourist.
Priceless!

No, because the details of the court proved he was an illegal, who incidently could not speak English. And yes, the owner of the farm did get in trouble for hiring illegals, while the Mexican didn't get in a lick of trouble over the fact he tried to rape the owners wife.

*whoosh*

Since you missed my point entirely, let me phrase it simply. You have probably encountered dozens of illegal immigrants, and not known. So your blanket generalization that most illegal immigrants are stupid is flawed, because you're only likely to know that the stupid ones are illegal immigrants.

Your post implied the assumption that the Mexicans at your school, because they didn't speak English, were "illegal". By saying that "all" the legally resident Mexicans you know spoke English, you are implying the assumption that any non-English speaking Mexican is an "illegal".

Could this possibly be true? Are you saying that there are no legally resident Mexicans who don't speak English?

Not at all. I'm sure some of them were legal residents, but I know for a fact that some of them were not legal. I also know for a fact that most were involved in illegal activities that invovled drugs, mainly methamphetamines.

Now, the fact that he showed you his driving licence when you "asked" for it implies that the driver in question spoke some English.
Well, I am not the OP, so he never handed it over when "I" asked for it. It also doesn't necessarily mean he spoke english, I'm sure any one with a brain could figure out what he wanted to see after what happened. I'm sure if you went up to the same mexican, and asked for his license in a situation where that doesn't apply, and he wouldn't understand what you wanted.

*whoosh*

Since you missed my point entirely, let me phrase it simply. You have probably encountered dozens of illegal immigrants, and not known. So your blanket generalization that most illegal immigrants are stupid is flawed, because you're only likely to know that the stupid ones are illegal immigrants.

I'm not saying illegals are stupid at all. I'm saying some of them are, and I'm saying some of them are not. Someone indicated that all illegals would be smarter than to involve themselves in a situation where they would be confronted with the law. I provided evidence that that was no the case.

Why didn't you turn him in man? He was probably here illegally, so he already broken the law, man you should've called the cops on him so they could deport his ass back to Mexico.

You're human. So you probably have committed some crime. Or probably will in the future. Off to jail with you!


Without no documents to prove that he went through the proper channels, then yea he's here illegally.


:mad: Bullshit. It is the duty of the accuser to demonstrate that a crime has been committed. It is NOT the duty of the accused to demonstrate innocence. So, display the evidence in your possession that the individual in question is, in fact, an "illegal."

All of this from a supposed American (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11662267&postcount=1) Libertarian (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11662297&postcount=5) no less. We're all about liberty, unless you have brown skin, in which case it's "produce your papers, comrade." I suppose I shouldn't be surprised; such nonsense is becoming increasingly (http://www.2006gov.com/issues001.html) common (http://www.2006gov.com/issues012.html) (<--- for fuck's sake, is this "Libertarian" candidate actually defending government use of lethal force in support of the War on Drugs?!?!?!)

*whoosh*

Since you missed my point entirely, let me phrase it simply. You have probably encountered dozens of illegal immigrants, and not known. So your blanket generalization that most illegal immigrants are stupid is flawed, because you're only likely to know that the stupid ones are illegal immigrants.

Nonetheless, it is extremely likely that illegal immigrants are stupid. The test scores reveal that the children of illegal immigrants perform significantly worse than American students across the board. Also, they probably came to the US in the first place because they weren't able to cut it in Mexico, and they decided to suck off the taxpayers' money and take advantage of our welfare state. They're kind of like moths to a flame -- some are too stupid and get too close, but moths aren't too bright in the first place.

Nonetheless, it is extremely likely that illegal immigrants are stupid. The test scores reveal that the children of illegal immigrants perform significantly worse than American students across the board. Also, they probably came to the US in the first place because they weren't able to cut it in Mexico, and they decided to suck off the taxpayers' money and take advantage of our welfare state. They're kind of like moths to a flame -- some are too stupid and get too close, but moths aren't too bright in the first place.

Could it possibly be because they might not speak english very well, and in which case they might not perform as well on tests?

Also, they probably came to the US in the first place because they weren't able to cut it in Mexico, and they decided to suck off the taxpayers' money and take advantage of our welfare state.

Or maybe - just maybe - because they wanted jobs?

Could it possibly be because they might not speak english very well, and in which case they might not perform as well on tests?
I wonder how stupid the U.S. kids would look in comparison to those "stupid" illegals if they were given the exact same test en español?

Could it possibly be because they might not speak english very well, and in which case they might not perform as well on tests?

Not to mention they're more likely to go to a under-funded school.

I wonder how stupid the U.S. kids would look in comparison to those "stupid" illegals if they were given the exact same test en español?

Incredibly stupid, thats the point I was making. I was *gasp* defending them from the previous person. I may not like illegals, but I deal with them with respect.

I wonder how stupid the U.S. kids would look in comparison to those "stupid" illegals if they were given the exact same test en español?

They'd do even worse than they do on tests in English. Assuming that is actually possible.

Was out driving with friends in the benz when I pull up to a corner(Where a certain fast food joint is that has free WIFI). I looked behind me and saw an orange low-rider S-10 speeding behind me. I stopped at a red light, but apparently he didn't-about 2 seconds later I felt a big BUMP from the rear. I got out of my car and went back to the guy. He came walking out of his car slowly. At first I thought he was drunk, however when he did speak I realized he didn't speak any english. I opened up my wallet and asked to see his Drivers license. He hesitated, and showed me his MEXICAN DRIVERS LICENSE.

I turned Red.

At this point I hadn't even looked at my car. I pulled out my phone to call the police and tell them that an illegal had just hit me when I took a second look at his ID and saw his first name:

Jesus.


As you can guess, I didn't call the police on Jesus. I couldn't bring myself to push the buttons. WTF would I call the police on Jesus for?

He didn't damage my car, although his orange fiberglass modded front bumper was pushed in by my steel bumper, so no harm done.

He was a nice guy though, despite his questionable immigration status.
I'd definitely call the cops...with that name...

Incredibly stupid, thats the point I was making. I was *gasp* defending them from the previous person. I may not like illegals, but I deal with them with respect.
I know. I was taking your point and adding mine to it ;)

Mothicans are people, too. Even if they are attracted by the light!

Nonetheless, it is extremely likely that illegal immigrants are stupid. The test scores reveal that the children of illegal immigrants perform significantly worse than American students across the board. Also, they probably came to the US in the first place because they weren't able to cut it in Mexico, and they decided to suck off the taxpayers' money and take advantage of our welfare state. They're kind of like moths to a flame -- some are too stupid and get too close, but moths aren't too bright in the first place.

They manage to cross a border, establish themselves in a community despite not speaking the dominant language, and manage to support a family taking low-paying jobs. Starting from nothing like that is particularly difficult because of the language barrier and a lack of formal education. They end up in very low paying jobs, but some still manage to integrate themselves and their family into America. Not really that stupid, when you think about it.

And, welfare state? If you call the U.S. a welfare state, you must see Europe as a communist paradise.

I know. I was taking your point and adding mine to it ;)

Mothicans are people, too. Even if they are attracted by the light!

Ok, just making sure, cause I know someone will take it wrong and jump down my throat.

Could it possibly be because they might not speak english very well, and in which case they might not perform as well on tests?

2 + 2 -- no English required. They not only perform below average on English tests, which is to be expected, but also on mathematical assessments.

2 + 2 -- no English required. They not only perform below average on English tests, which is to be expected, but also on mathematical assessments.

Yes, they may perform just fine on that portion of the test, the results are skewed in that regard. For some reason they don't like conceptual questions such as that, they use far too many word problems, that would be where these students might not perform as well because their grasp on the English language might not be so well.

Nonetheless, it is extremely likely that illegal immigrants are stupid.

Excuse me, but who the fuck got pissed off when they found out a mexicans name was Jesus, and it wasn't even in the same context, or pronunciation?

You're a racist, ignorant, and pathetic.

Get some education in that lil brain of yours and grow up.

...so what's the problem, then?


EDIT: And, in case you don't already know, it's pronounced HAY-Seuss, not Gee-zus...

More like hay-SEUSS innit?

Anyway Baxkwoods, are you glad that you were driving your land yacht instead of an econobox deathtrap?

Excuse me, but who the fuck got pissed off when they found out a mexicans name was Jesus, and it wasn't even in the same context, or pronunciation?

Not I.

You're a racist, ignorant, and pathetic.

Nah, I don't have anything against Latinos in general. However, the smart ones are able to stay behind and get a job in Mexico instead of living off US welfare benefits. There are a few smart illegal immigrants, but not that many in comparison to the total. They failed at living in Mexico because they could not meet the minimum requirements there -- they are basically Mexico's trash.

...and they decided to suck off the taxpayers' money and take advantage of our welfare state.


Good, the sooner the welfare state overloads and collapses, and the taxpayers learn the dangers of said system first hand and as painfully as possible, the better. Throw open the gates says I. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free;" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus) the people of the United States could use a lesson about statist socialism, anyway.

My friend Jesus works at the Wal-Mart McD's

Jesus is not uncommon in Mexico. In fact, I know about 3 Jesuses

More like hay-SEUSS innit?

...shut up

Jesus is not uncommon in Mexico. In fact, I know about 3 Jesuses

Or would it be Jesi? (That's my favorite way to refer to the plural of Jesus) Like the many roadside Jesi in Bavaria. :p

More like hay-SEUSS innit?

Is this going to be another Die Hard: With a Vengence?

Is this going to be another Die Hard: With a Vengence?

I hope. I love all of those movies...

You're human. So you probably have committed some crime. Or probably will in the future. Off to jail with you!

Yea...that translate well, not. The punishment must fit the crime, and for the crime of being here illegally, guess what, you get deported!

All of this from a supposed
American (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11662267&postcount=1) Libertarian (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11662297&postcount=5) no less. We're all about liberty, unless you have brown skin, in which case it's "produce your papers, comrade." I suppose I shouldn't be surprised; such nonsense is becoming increasingly (http://www.2006gov.com/issues001.html) common (http://www.2006gov.com/issues012.html) (<--- for fuck's sake, is this "Libertarian" candidate actually defending government use of lethal force in support of the War on Drugs?!?!?!)

Actually I am a Libertarian, but I also like it when people obey my country's law. We have these laws for a reason! If a person breaks the law, then he must face the punishment for breaking said law, for the crime of entering into this country illegally, the punishment is, deportation.

Yea...that translate well, not. The punishment must fit the crime, and for the crime of being here illegally, guess what, you get deported!



Actually I am a Libertarian, but I also like it when people obey my country's law. We have these laws for a reason! If a person breaks the law, then he must face the punishment for breaking said law, for the crime of entering into this country illegally, the punishment is, deportation.

WTF? I see what you're saying but it makes me think of when my friend skipped school too much and was suspended.

Is this going to be another Die Hard: With a Vengence?

More like a cheeseburher with fries

...shut up

Why?

WTF? I see what you're saying but it makes me think of when my friend skipped school too much and was suspended.

Did your school have a policy about that? Was the punishment for skipping school suspension? Hey, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

I am ALL for maxium social freedom. Gays get married, hell I'm for that. Want to smoke pot as long as it doesn't interfear with your job, go for it. Do I care if you like Bondage sex with consenting adults, Hell no! However, I do realize that when a person breaks the laws of this country, no matter how inane or stupid, that person must face the punishment.

However, I do realize that when a person breaks the laws of this country, no matter how inane or stupid, that person must face the punishment.

If the laws are "inane or stupid," why should she face punishment?

Yea...that translate well, not. The punishment must fit the crime, and for the crime of being here illegally, guess what, you get deported!


A "crime" which you have yet to present any evidence, beyond simple speculation, of actually having occured.


Actually I am a Libertarian, but I also like it when people obey my country's law. We have these laws for a reason! If a person breaks the law, then he must face the punishment for breaking said law, for the crime of entering into this country illegally, the punishment is, deportation.

Some laws are illegitimate, like the one's creating the drug war in the example I presented in my earlier post. Tell me, how does a party that supposedly believes in individual liberty, free enterprise, free trade, and the elimination of statist aggression justify shooting someone in the back (http://www.2006gov.com/issues012.html) because that someone was breaking illegitimate laws while crossing over an artificial statist invention without the permission of the most holy sovereign? Does not Unencumbered free trade include the free movement of individuals to trade and find jobs? Why does a party, in rhetoric one step away from outright anarchism, suddenly bend its knee to the authority of the state?

If the laws are "inane or stupid," why should she face punishment?

Because she was inane and stupid for knowingly breaking them and then getting caught.

I doubt the guy was illegally here in the country because
A) He had a mexican license
B) He stopped and showed it to Backwoods rather than high tailing it out of there fast like a bunny as has happened to me. Twice.

If the laws are "inane or stupid," why should she face punishment?

Because it's the law, and our government have made through the people we elected that this law is to be enforced. So if you want to get mad at anyone, get mad at the idiots who voted for the idiots who made the laws.

If the laws are "inane or stupid," why should she face punishment?

Because we get to be picky about which laws are "inane and stupid." When its a poor brown skinned person, no such law exists. When it's my ass on the line...well, that changes things don't you know...

I think the creator of this topic is focusing to much on the fact that he had a mexican drivers licence. At least he had the dignity to not run from you which is quite a frequent occurence with legal people. The fact that he is an illegal or not has nothing to do with his driving ability. Would you be as pissed if it was an 18 year old behind the car?

Because it's the law,

It is the will of the state. Why should I accept that will as universally binding? You have already admitted that it is sometimes "inane or stupid." I would add that it is sometimes disgusting and immoral. Why should I be punished for refusing to go along with inane, stupid, disgusting, or immoral things?

and our government have made through the people we elected that this law is to be enforced.

So?

So if you want to get mad at anyone, get mad at the idiots who voted for the idiots who made the laws.

I can get mad at them, and I can also insist that an unjust or stupid law need not be obeyed.

I am ALL for maxium social freedom. Gays get married, hell I'm for that. Want to smoke pot as long as it doesn't interfear with your job, go for it. Do I care if you like Bondage sex with consenting adults, Hell no! However, I do realize that when a person breaks the laws of this country, no matter how inane or stupid, that person must face the punishment.

So, freedom is great, but when the state removes it we just give in and forget about it. No wonder such a wonderful individual like G. W. Bush can get elected in this country. To many people willing to cower on their knees, cause, you know, its the law.

Because we get to be picky about which laws are "inane and stupid." When its a poor brown skinned person, no such law exists. When it's my ass on the line...well, that changes things don't you know...

It is not just the hypocrisy that bothers me, but the servility.

The notion that the rulers need to be obeyed, just because they happen to be the rulers, should have been eviscerated a long time ago.

I can get mad at them, and I can also insist that an unjust or stupid law need not be obeyed.

That is where we get into a slippery slope, if that is the case, then who decides which laws are stupid and inane? I mean I don't like the fact that I have to go 35 mph on some streets, does that mean I can drive 55 mph through them? No, if you really want to change the laws, then do something about it instead of bitching and moaning on here. Elect people who you think will make laws that you like, get more involved into politics. I know I help out Libertarians here whenever I get a chance to. Instead of just sitting here compalining about "unfair" laws and how you're not going to obey them because they're unfair, then get off your ass and change the laws!

It is not just the hypocrisy that bothers me, but the servility.


I wouldn't be so bothered, if the need to obey unjust laws was being presented in one very careful (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhi) way (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr.). Unfortunately, that doesn't yet seem to be the case.

Instead of just sitting here compalining about "unfair" laws and how you're not going to obey them because they're unfair, then get off your ass and change the laws!

What more effective way to change unjust laws than to realize (and share with others) the fact that I am bound to no law that I do not voluntarily choose anyway. I'm not unwilling to accept the concequences, I just wish that others using the rhetoric of liberty would stop insisting that I be caged for living so.

What more effective way to change unjust laws than to realize (and share with others) the fact that I am bound to no law that I do not voluntarily choose anyway. I'm not unwilling to accept the concequences, I just wish that others using the rhetoric of liberty would stop insisting that I be caged for living so.

Even Liberities must have laws, or else we would have Anarchy.

That is where we get into a slippery slope, if that is the case, then who decides which laws are stupid and inane?

Proper behavior has nothing to do with "laws." We should pay attention to them only as they are, stripped of all their state worship baggage. Certain people want us to do certain things, and they have an army of enforcers who will try to make us do them.

I should treat them only as a circumstance, as a part of the environment in which my behavior takes place. Thus, for instance, if it will harm someone else for me to be imprisoned, it may be immoral for me to commit civil disobedience when it will result in my imprisonment. It is not immoral intrinsically, however. It is just disobedience, which is perhaps the greatest virtue of all.

If someone makes an error in judgment and breaks the law when she shouldn't have, I can judge her for that, but only in the same way that I can judge any of her other actions, legal or illegal - according to certain moral standards, combined with the dictates of reason.

I mean I don't like the fact that I have to go 35 mph on some streets, does that mean I can drive 55 mph through them?

If it won't harm anyone, absolutely.

No, if you really want to change the laws, then do something about it instead of bitching and moaning on here. Elect people who you think will make laws that you like, get more involved into politics. I know I help out Libertarians here whenever I get a chance to. Instead of just sitting here compalining about "unfair" laws and how you're not going to obey them because they're unfair, then get off your ass and change the laws!

The two are not mutually exclusive.

I wouldn't be so bothered, if the need to obey unjust laws was being presented in one very careful (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhi) way (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr.). Unfortunately, that doesn't yet seem to be the case.

Gandhi and MLK Jr. were both strong proponents of civil disobedience, to their credit. I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

..or else we would have Anarchy.

Yeah, having reviewed the positions of "my" "libertarian" candidate for Governor, as well as those others both here and elsewhere, I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that a large helping of anarchy would be a good thing.

But only cause I want to go around killing and stealing and raping, of course. No way I could know such things are wrong, if not for good 'ol Uncle Sam. :) ( :rolleyes: )

Gandhi and MLK Jr. were both strong proponents of civil disobedience, to their credit. I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

They both encouraged breaking unjust laws, but so they could go in humble submission to the punishment for breaking them, as a means of demonstrating and magnifying the inherent injustice (edit: going willingly and unafraid is also simply the most powerful kind of dissent there is, fear being the lifeblood of coercion and injustice). They were willing to be punished by unjust laws in order to fight against them. This is how civil disobedience (at least of the nonviolent kind promoted by Gandhi and MLK Jr.) works.

What is being proposed here, however, is submission to punishment because that punishment is just. Gandhi and MLK Jr. both submitted to punishment because that punishment was not just. (edit: paradoxical perhaps, but apparently highly effective)

I think the creator of this topic is focusing to much on the fact that he had a mexican drivers licence. At least he had the dignity to not run from you which is quite a frequent occurence with legal people. The fact that he is an illegal or not has nothing to do with his driving ability. Would you be as pissed if it was an 18 year old behind the car?


Had he tried to run, being named Jesus or not I would have done a citizen's arrest on his illegal arse and handed him over to the police.

Of course, he was boxed in except for one side. Don't think he could have run very far without his truck, or with those pants so low.

:rolleyes: Like I said, it's not a race issuse, it's a legal and law issuse.

Right. Because you've never harped on this subject before.

Was out driving with friends in the benz when I pull up to a corner(Where a certain fast food joint is that has free WIFI). I looked behind me and saw an orange low-rider S-10 speeding behind me. I stopped at a red light, but apparently he didn't-about 2 seconds later I felt a big BUMP from the rear. I got out of my car and went back to the guy. He came walking out of his car slowly. At first I thought he was drunk, however when he did speak I realized he didn't speak any english. I opened up my wallet and asked to see his Drivers license. He hesitated, and showed me his MEXICAN DRIVERS LICENSE.

I turned Red.

At this point I hadn't even looked at my car. I pulled out my phone to call the police and tell them that an illegal had just hit me when I took a second look at his ID and saw his first name:

Jesus.


As you can guess, I didn't call the police on Jesus. I couldn't bring myself to push the buttons. WTF would I call the police on Jesus for?

He didn't damage my car, although his orange fiberglass modded front bumper was pushed in by my steel bumper, so no harm done.

He was a nice guy though, despite his questionable immigration status.


He wasn't anglo-saxon with long hair and a beard, so I am sure he wasn't the Jesus.

We wouldn't be having this discussion about whether or not he was an illegal if he could have communicated with the original poster enough to be asked.

Tourists rarely speak the language of the country they are visiting. Once again, what happens when we assume?

He wasn't anglo-saxon with long hair and a beard, so I am sure he wasn't the Jesus.


It's been my thought for a long time that Christ was a Jewish dark-skinned dark haired individual who was the Son of God

Tourists rarely speak the language of the country they are visiting. Once again, what happens when we assume?

Illegal alien's aren't coming up for a vacation, they're coming up here to stay and eat up welfare dollars and untaxed work.

About three years ago I had a new explorer parked at a buddies house while visiting. We heard this loud crash and come running out to see what happened. A illegal Mexican women drove through three yards hit a tree and almost hit my buddies house. Her cousin in the car pulled the steering wheel hard to the right to avoid driving through the house. What did she hit? My truck damn it. Did about 9k worth of damage to my vehicle. When the police came out to take a damage report I asked him why he did not arrest her. He said he could not arrest her for being illegal. They admited to being illegal btw. Anyway the car was not in her name or her cousins, no insurance, no license and of course no ingles. Complete and utter bs I think because they just let them walk. They didn't even bother to check and see if she was drinking. A normal citizen would have a whole lot of explaining with citations and I am sure a DUI test.