NationStates Jolt Archive

Quite the obvious question. What makes something (or someone for that matter) American? What claims can an integrationist culture make on stuff that it's integrated, things like hotdogs and hamburgers, for example, are both clearly German in origin, but they're viewed as "All-American". Is this legit (I believe it is) or is it duplicity on the part of the American public.

*When referencing the term American, I people from the country who's legal name is The United States.

Quite the obvious question. What makes something (or someone for that matter) American? What claims can an integrationist culture make on stuff that it's integrated, things like hotdogs and hamburgers, for example, are both clearly German in origin, but they're viewed as "All-American". Is this legit (I believe it is) or is it duplicity on the part of the American public.

*When referencing the term American, I people from the country who's legal name is The United States.

If it's made here, and people claim it has some ethnic origin outside the US, but the people from that country claim to have never heard of it, it's probably American.

Especially if it gets a name change. They didn't call them "hot dogs" in Germany. And it's pretty clear that the recipe changed.

Extra points if the people from the original country won't eat it.

well, hot dogs have a few differences from the german counterpart...namely the meat and seasonings used.
Hamburger style steak started in germany, but the actual hamburger sandwich started in New Haven, Connecticut.

for the rest, see DK

edit: and the All-American girl/guy.
For sports, this is an honor given to college athletes. the term spreads to those who are beautiful, intelligent, and athletic. Basically, the "dream" child...blonde, blue eyes, nice body, etc.

dunno, i've never really understood the phrase "as american as apple pie". pretty much any country where apples grow has a recipe for apple pie. so does the phrase mean that american stuff is just all the generic stuff gathered from all the various cultures that started it?

I mean even more than just hot dogs and hamburgers though, I'm talking about American culture in general.

I mean even more than just hot dogs and hamburgers though, I'm talking about American culture in general.

in general, when things come into america, they get bastardized beyond recognition to their home country. For example, Chop Suey, a "chinese" dish, originated in California.

We generally take bits and pieces of all the different cultures, mix some together, keep some seperate, and discard some. For example, a 3rd generation Italian family will be "American" in culture...celebrate the holidays, eat meatloaf and things like that...but will still retain some "Italian"...huge meals with pasta as a focus, talking with their hands...but they won't be "Italian"...the language is the most obvious thing discarded.

apply that for food, art, fashion, etc.

I mean even more than just hot dogs and hamburgers though, I'm talking about American culture in general.

Well, it goes both ways. Look what the Brits did with "the blues".

Well, on the subject of food, the majority of it kept its original native name here in the US until WWII. Then there was a need to nationalize everything; frankfurters or whatever became hotdogs, and sourkraut(sp?) became cauliflower(I think).

Foods, culture, and products become American in the same way that any other immigrant does. At some point the original connotations of what it means to be from it's point of origin become weaker than it's association with American culture. The Statue of Liberty was just an ugly gift from France until enough people came to associate it with America.

America is a country of integration. We don't have a few thousand years worth of history and popular culture like the nations of Europe or Asia, nor do we have cultural values that are based on the society. Nearly everything we have as a nation was brought here by someone from somewhere else, and our culture is just as immigrant as our population. The benefit of this is that not only do we have a greater spectrum of cultural influences, but we also have a tendancy to change things.

My favorite example of this American cultural exchange comes from a Chicago invention: the Maxwell Street Polish. Chicago has a lot of Polish immigrants(I think we still claim the largest Polish population in the world outside of Warsaw) and when they settled they started selling Polish sausage. Chicago also has a large black population(who immigrated from the south in order to get work in the booming industrial sector at the turn of the century). Eventually the two groups started exchaning cultural goods and someone(it is unclear who) got the bright idea to serve polish sausage with a soul food flare. Take the sausage, throw it on a french roll, add german mustard and carmalized onions. That is the nature of word American.

Well, on the subject of food, the majority of it kept its original native name here in the US until WWII. Then there was a need to nationalize everything; frankfurters or whatever became hotdogs, and sourkraut(sp?) became cauliflower(I think).

I've never heard sauerkraut called anything but sauerkraut, and it's pickled cabbage, not cauliflower.

Well, it goes both ways. Look what the Brits did with "the blues".

Yes, but the Brits never really absorbed the blues. Sure, some of them learned how to play it(a few even managed to learn to play it right) and they forged some innovations, but I doubt many people think of the Blues as "British."

Quite the obvious question. What makes something (or someone for that matter) American? What claims can an integrationist culture make on stuff that it's integrated, things like hotdogs and hamburgers, for example, are both clearly German in origin, but they're viewed as "All-American". Is this legit (I believe it is) or is it duplicity on the part of the American public.

*When referencing the term American, I people from the country who's legal name is The United States.

You need to put that footnote in your signature.

Certainly, anything "American" has got ethnic origins elsewhere. That's a fact that any culture needs to realize. French cuisine is very regional, but you can trace it back to Catherine de Medicis -- She was from Italy.

So it goes with America. Part of it is like a patent. Did someone figure out a new way to use an old food? Like ice cream cones and hot dogs, it's more of a new way to consume it, than a whole different food.

Same thing with music. Same thing with science. Things build on other things.

Yes, but the Brits never really absorbed the blues. Sure, some of them learned how to play it(a few even managed to learn to play it right) and they forged some innovations, but I doubt many people think of the Blues as "British."

I think you missed the point. Ever hear of a little band called "the Beatles"?

Yes, but the Brits never really absorbed the blues. Sure, some of them learned how to play it(a few even managed to learn to play it right) and they forged some innovations, but I doubt many people think of the Blues as "British."

Clapton is one of the greatest bluesmen ever!

Yes, but the Brits never really absorbed the blues. Sure, some of them learned how to play it(a few even managed to learn to play it right) and they forged some innovations, but I doubt many people think of the Blues as "British."

I'm just saying what they did to the blues, not that they absorbed it entirely.

Shoddy craftmanship. Just look at your pathetic cars.

Shoddy craftmanship. Just look at your pathetic cars.

I don't know. Look at our excellent firearms.

Shoddy craftmanship. Just look at your pathetic cars.

All I need to say is 'Lucas Electric' and you should hide your head in shame.

All I need to say is 'Lucas Electric' and you should hide your head in shame.

Back in the '70s Lucas decided to diversify its product line and began manufacturing vacuum cleaners. It was the only product they offered which didn't suck.

Did you hear the one about the guy that peeked into a Land Rover and asked the owner "How can you tell one switch from another at night, since they all look the same?" "He replied, it doesn't matter which one you use, nothing happens!"

Quite the obvious question. What makes something (or someone for that matter) American? What claims can an integrationist culture make on stuff that it's integrated, things like hotdogs and hamburgers, for example, are both clearly German in origin, but they're viewed as "All-American". Is this legit (I believe it is) or is it duplicity on the part of the American public.

*When referencing the term American, I people from the country who's legal name is The United States.

when 10% of the population outside of the ethnic group it came from adopts it, its officially "american" when 75% of the population outside of the ethnic group it came from adopt it, its "all-american"

any other questions?

dunno, i've never really understood the phrase "as american as apple pie". pretty much any country where apples grow has a recipe for apple pie. so does the phrase mean that american stuff is just all the generic stuff gathered from all the various cultures that started it?

apples are no more native to america than white people (or black people, or asian people) are. that makes it all the more correct to call things "as american as apple pie"

I don't know. Look at our excellent firearms.

I'm trying so hard, yet seeing so little.

Granted, there are some nice civilian things. But really now; Our military uses italian pistols, Belgian LMG's, german SMG's, etc...

We use an american assault rifle and a couple american sniper rifles. The M16 is hardly an excellent firearms, at least in its base form. Ok, but not great. The sniper rifles... nothing special. You can usually find equal or better firearms the French, British, Germans, etc... have.

I'm trying so hard, yet seeing so little.

Granted, there are some nice civilian things. But really now; Our military uses italian pistols, Belgian LMG's, german SMG's, etc...

We use an american assault rifle and a couple american sniper rifles. The M16 is hardly an excellent firearms, at least in its base form. Ok, but not great. The sniper rifles... nothing special. You can usually find equal or better firearms the French, British, Germans, etc... have.

The M24 and M40 are better than anything except the Accuracy International weapons, and those are being moved to the US for manufacture.

The M24 and M40 are based on the Remington 700, which even out of the box is a far more accurate rifle than anything you can buy in Europe for the same price.

The M24 and M40 are better than anything except the Accuracy International weapons, and those are being moved to the US for manufacture.

The M24 and M40 are based on the Remington 700, which even out of the box is a far more accurate rifle than anything you can buy in Europe for the same price.

Just because they are moved to the US for manufacture doesn't make them american.

And I think a little bias is showing. What makes the M24 so magically accurate? I hear plenty good things about the FR-F2, AI guns, Certain german guns that I forget the name of, etc.

Regardless, even if this was so, it would be one gun. Still hardly some grand american gun superiority.

I'm trying so hard, yet seeing so little.

Granted, there are some nice civilian things. But really now; Our military uses italian pistols, Belgian LMG's, german SMG's, etc...

We use an american assault rifle and a couple american sniper rifles. The M16 is hardly an excellent firearms, at least in its base form. Ok, but not great. The sniper rifles... nothing special. You can usually find equal or better firearms the French, British, Germans, etc... have.

The French FR-F1 sniper rifle is crap - I've shot it, and it's no great performer.

The PSG-1 that Germany uses is nice, but it costs ten times as much as a Rem 700 based model.

And we have more small, innovative firearms companies than any European country.

You have no rifle like this, for example:

http://armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/?s=2003_main2

The first day's activities wrapped up with a demonstration of the .408 CheyTac's long-range capabilities. The unique sniper system has posted a five-shot, five-inch grouping at 1,531 yards.

Just because they are moved to the US for manufacture doesn't make them american.

And I think a little bias is showing. What makes the M24 so magically accurate? I hear plenty good things about the FR-F2, AI guns, Certain german guns that I forget the name of, etc.

Regardless, even if this was so, it would be one gun. Still hardly some grand american gun superiority.

The FR-F2 is crap. I've shot it. Even the old US M-21 is far more accurate, especially beyond 700 meters.

I think you missed the point. Ever hear of a little band called "the Beatles"?

I was talking abot cultural ownership, what makes something a part of a culture. The Beatles were a great band with heavy blues influence, but that doesn't make the Blues a British institution. When you imagine the blues you do not imagine a bunch of brits from the 60s, you imagine an American black man with a guitar and an old suit pouring out his soul on the stage of some shitty dive.

Clapton is one of the greatest bluesmen ever!

Probably the second best alive today, and definately in my top 5 list. That still doesn't change the fact that I'm guessing no one here would really call the blues a british form of music instead of an American one.

I'm just saying what they did to the blues, not that they absorbed it entirely.

I understood, I was just pointing out that even though cultural exchange and cultural ownership are closely related, they are not the same thing. The OP was asking how to define cultural ownership.

Not to mention our excellent industrial complex. I mean ... when a foreign nation wants to build something (let's say ... a computer chip), they ship the company here! Imagine the Japanese actually building a car in JAPAN!

I bet it's our wide variety of golf resorts.

We own the market on movies and film.

We've got you covered on consumerism and marketability.

Plausable deniability, you say? Why ... we invented it!

America ... FUCK YEAH!

Plausable deniability, you say? Why ... we invented it!


We might have had a hand in that, but the extent of our involvement is unclear....

Shoddy craftmanship. Just look at your pathetic cars.
In here, that is true about some things. Like cars. Fancy that!
It used to be 'made in china' was something to laugh at.

US made guns are one of the finest, though. As long as there isn't Swiss, Austrian or Finnish made rifles around, I'd buy a US made anytime.

And aeroplanes. A380 sucks.