NationStates Jolt Archive

I was walking past a clothes shop today, and I happened to notice a bag over the arm of a mannequin. It was decorated with swastikas and SS symbols and other Nazi paraphernalia. The clothing store caters mostly to young people (teenyboppers). It actually took me a while to recognise why these symbols were familiar to me. I was just so shocked at seeing them in context.

But it got me to thinking. Now, I am a big advocate of free speech. But, something about the swastika as a fashion item just leaves me with an awful taste in my mouth. I can make all the intellectual arguments, but I just can't persuade myself to buy any of them.

I don't care that it could be perceived as "removing power from the symbol."
I'm not interested in free speech arguments. I just can't reconcile that any item like that ought to be sold.

What do you all think?

P.S. When I went to Centre Management to let them know (we have a lot of veterans and refugees from WWII in my area) that some of the clientele might be offended by the prominent display of a swastika the girl behind the desk didn't know what a swastika was. I thought that was very sad.

It depends which kind of Swastika it is.

If it was a Finnish or Swedish one - that's not such an issue, really.

A Nazi one would be a bit controversial - but on the other hand, if it was exposed a lot, people might get over World War 2 a bit faster.

It depends which kind of Swastika it is.

If it was a Finnish or Swedish one - that's not such an issue, really.

A Nazi one would be a bit controversial - but on the other hand, if it was exposed a lot, people might get over World War 2 a bit faster.

i probably should have made that a bit clearer, it was a representation of the Nazi flag. I momentarily forgot the swastika has a long history excluding Nazism.

It doesn't bother me to be honest, some people might take offence seeing any Swastika, but I think its just being over sensitive. I've had people call me a Nazi for doing a presentation on Hinduism, which featured a Hindu candle Swastika. Its daft.

I can understand if people who were actually directly affected by Naziism being a bit shocked to see it, but in all fairness the symbol itself never did anything to kill folks...

The other symbols, like the SS lightning, I wouldn't choose to wear them.

Considering that there are fashion items happily showing the Russian hammer and sickle emblem, a trend that's been around since the 80s, I don't really see any rational reason why it should be taboo to use swastikas on fashion.

Admittedly, it does make me feel uneasy on an emotional basis, given my family history and the history of my home country, and I mot certainly never would wear anything like that, but vilifying the symbol for it's connection with a long-gone regime seems slightly overboard.

i probably should have made that a bit clearer, it was a representation of the Nazi flag. I momentarily forgot the swastika has a long history excluding Nazism.
A grave error to make.

And, you know what - why not just let people pick and choose what they like - if they get some Nazi things then that's really their choice.

Because once it becomes a fashion item, the stigma will be removed from what is very much a stigmatised item (LOADS of countries and peoples have a swastika as a symbol, shame it's been cursed, really).

The other symbols, like the SS lightning, I wouldn't choose to wear them.

The "SS lightning" is an ancient Germanic rune for the letter S.

i probably should have made that a bit clearer, it was a representation of the Nazi flag. I momentarily forgot the swastika has a long history excluding Nazism.

There is nothing "cool" or fashionable about that. Anyone who would choose to wear one as a fashion item is in serious need of a history lesson.

The "SS lightning" is an ancient Germanic rune for the letter S.

Thats as maybe, but the SS were (as far as I've been told) more reposncible for killings and brutality, so wearing it would be (atleast during the war) a sign of evil and such. The swastika to me just signifies Nazi allegiance, as appose to genocide.

I may be talking bollocks.

There is nothing "cool" or fashionable about that. Anyone who would choose to wear one as a fashion item is in serious need of a history lesson.

The swastika is awesome. It's not it's fault Hitler hijacked it.

Thats as maybe, but the SS were (as far as I've been told) more reposncible for killings and brutality, so wearing it would be (atleast during the war) a sign of evil and such. The swastika to me just signifies Nazi allegiance, as appose to genocide.

I may be talking bollocks.

How would you like it if your letter for S was suddenly evil? Sorry, you can use S anymore, now it's replaced by Z. Iz that ok with you?

Well, that would stop me getting annoyed about whether to use 's' or 'z' when I'm talking to American folks...

But seriously, I'm not saying it's evil, I'm saying I wouldn't wear it. I'd probably consider it offencive if I knew anyone who was in the war, or even remotely involved in it, but since I dont I can only assume.

It depends which kind of Swastika it is.

If it was a Finnish or Swedish one - that's not such an issue, really.

A Nazi one would be a bit controversial - but on the other hand, if it was exposed a lot, people might get over World War 2 a bit faster.

"getting over" WW2, in many ways, sounds like a bad idea.

I think Getting Over is way different to Forgetting...

I think Getting Over is way different to Forgetting...

perhaps. and fair point. i could go into reasons and clarify what i mean, but that'd just be thread hijacking :P


in answer to the OP, i gotta agree with Cabra... even if it doesn't sit well in my stomach either.

Hmmm i think it is wrong but thats because fashion is moronic anyways.
My sister is big on fashion and desiging etc and she thinks the Nazi's knew how to dress, seriously she is right, they had some quality tailors.
Of course she hates Nazi(i)sm.-_-
Should the Swastika be put on Fashionware?
No, just like the Sickle and Hammer.

My sister is big on fashion and desiging etc and she thinks the Nazi's knew how to dress, seriously she is right, they had some quality tailors.

You know, nazi uniforms were designed by Hugo Boss.

Anyway... I don't mind people wearing swastikas or other nazi stuff. That is as long as it represents their religious beliefs in some way, or if they sympathize with the nazis on some level. Wearing a symbol just because it looks cool is pretty stupid, if you don't know or agree with its implications.

I'm slightly offended by the hammer and sickle logo and other famous communist symbols, but that's mostly because of my dislike of communism. I wouldn't ban either.

The other symbols, like the SS lightning, I wouldn't choose to wear them.

Or the little Totenkopf skulls...

There's a theory that the side with the spiffiest uniforms loses the wars...

Or the little Totenkopf skulls...

There's a theory that the side with the spiffiest uniforms loses the wars...

That explains US military problems for the past 50 years...

That explains US military problems for the past 50 years...

Indeed.

Just look at the plain uniforms of the Allies compared to the German uniforms of WWII.

We need plainer, more drab uniforms.

People can wear what they want; if they want to be mindless slaves to a centralized government and have no name, just a number, then let them. Wouldn't it be funny if they supported the National Socialist Party and then they were deemed impure and killed? I bet they wouldn't be so quick to don that patch, then.

Wow, 61 years and we're still not over it... Meh. *goes back too drinking soda*

mmmmm... In theory i think it should be alright..

BUT

I personally would not wear it as many people find it offensive.
So out of due respect to my fellows i would not.
The same way I would not wear a piece of clothing that jokes about the twin towers.
Oh and i would not wear a t-shirt with the hammer & sicle (sp?) either.

Ya know whats also funny. Nazis were sub-human murdering bastards, but I see ALOT of communist paraphenillia, (ex. Hammer and sickle, CCCP, USSR) and yet... where is the controversy? Didnt stalin allows millions of his people too starve too death, while sending millions more innocent people too freez too death in Siberia?? Those symbols represented such a thing!! *takes deep breath, goes back too soda*

Indeed.

Just look at the plain uniforms of the Allies compared to the German uniforms of WWII.

We need plainer, more drab uniforms.

Wasn't the Conferderacy gray?

Wow, 61 years and we're still not over it... Meh. *goes back too drinking soda*

Ahem ...

Some 62 million people, or 2.5% of the world population, died in the war, though estimates vary greatly - about 25 million soldiers and 37 million civilians. This total includes the estimated 12 million lives lost in the Holocaust. Of the total deaths in World War II approximately 80% were on the Allied side and 20% on the Axis side.

Allied forces suffered approximately 17 million military deaths, of which about 10 million were Soviet and 4 million Chinese. Axis forces suffered about 8 million, of which more than 5 million were German. The Soviet Union suffered by far the largest death toll of any nation in the war; around 23 million people died in the Soviet Union, including more than 12 million civilians. Some modern estimates double the number of Chinese casualties originally mentioned.

The dead and missing among Allied uniformed personnel totaled about 14.2 million, including about 10 million from the USSR, 2.5 million from China, 400,000 from the British Commonwealth, 400,000 from the U.S., 400,000 from Poland, 300,000 from Yugoslavia, and 250,000 from France. The Axis military lost about 8.5 million including 5.5 million from Germany, 2.0 million from Japan, and 400,000 from Italy.

About 49 million deaths were civilians, who died as a result of disease, starvation, genocide (in particular, the Holocaust), massacres, and aerial bombing. One estimate is that 12 million civilians died in the camps, 1.5 million by bombs, 7 million in Europe from other causes, and 7.5 million in China from other causes. Allied civilian deaths came to about 38 million, including Soviet Union (20 million), China (10 million), Poland (5.5 million) and Yugoslavia (1.7 million). There were about 4-5 million civilian deaths on the Axis side, including Germany (1.8 million) Japan (2.0 Million), Italy (500,000) and Romania (500,000). The Holocaust refers to the organized state-sponsored murder of 6 million Jews, 220,000 Roma people, and other ethnic minorities and political opponents carried out by the Nazis during the war.

That's why we're not over it.

Casualties, civilian impact, and atrocities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II#Casualties.2C_civilian_impact.2C_and_atrocities)
World War II Casualties (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties)

Wasn't the Conferderacy gray?

Yes, but they were more dashing.

Remember what the Catholic church did back in the Middle Ages? Ban all crosses on fashion!

Remember what the Catholic church did back in the Middle Ages? Ban all crosses on fashion!

Except for the stylish Crusader crosses, of course.

wha?
There are a lot of place Nazi symbols are acceptable (Models, replicas, other paraphanelia that clearly relates that yes, this is related to ww2 and the Nazis there-in) but in a teeny-bopper store?
And it's even more ridiculous that the girl behind the counter had no idea!
Where was this, what store? I want some context.

Actually, i would endorse the (nazi) swastika to be used as a fashion item.

Easier to identify idiots that way.

They decorate clothes with plenty of Soviet emblems, and market it to edgy teenagers, so why should Nazi emblems be any different. If anything, they ought to be less potent because the Nazi's crimes were further distant in time.

Actually, i would endorse the (nazi) swastika to be used as a fashion item.

Easier to identify idiots that way.

Good point.

Actually, i would endorse the (nazi) swastika to be used as a fashion item.

Easier to identify idiots that way.

Me: "Oh, uh, your handbag bears a...uh...Totenkopf, what's the point in that? Do you even know what that means?"
Moron: "I dunno...*giggles*...it looks cool."
Me: "Then you are a total moron. Goodbye."

Me: "Oh, uh, your handbag bears a...uh...Totenkopf, what's the point in that? Do you even know what that means?"
Moron: "I dunno...*giggles*...it looks cool."
Me: "Then you are a total moron. Goodbye."

To be honest, I guess I wouldn't even talk to people wearing something like that out of trendiness.
Same as I despise people wearing Che Guevara shirts without ever hearing anymore about him except his name and "sumthin 'bout Cuba".

Yea, I hate fashion victims.
[/confession]

To be honest, I guess I wouldn't even talk to people wearing something like that out of trendiness.
Same as I despise people wearing Che Guevara shirts without ever hearing anymore about him except his name and "sumthin 'bout Cuba".

Yea, I hate fashion victims.
[/confession]

Same here. Being edgy for edgy's sake gets on my nerves.

Ahem ...



That's why we're not over it.

Casualties, civilian impact, and atrocities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II#Casualties.2C_civilian_impact.2C_and_atrocities)
World War II Casualties (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties)


Was not this terrible as well? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_inquisition) Ban the cucifix!

And this? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin)- Ban the hammer and sickle!

Or this? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zulu_War)- Ban the british flag!

Im saying there have been dozens of massacares over the course of history. If your looking into raw numbers of murder, look into the soviet union. They have done waaaaaaaay worse.

Was not this terrible as well? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_inquisition) Ban the cucifix!

And this? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin)- Ban the hammer and sickle!

Or this? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zulu_War)- Ban the british flag!

Im saying there have been dozens of massacares over the course of history. If your looking into raw numbers of murder, look into the soviet union. They have done waaaaaaaay worse.
I don't think anyone's saying ban anything, I think we're just saying "Wow, this is retarded."

I don't think anyone's saying ban anything, I think we're just saying "Wow, this is retarded."

The point is Farnhamia, looks into the nazis raw murders. TERIIBLE CRIMES YES. But there has been worse. Why should a symbol, that represents a worse form of toltalirianism and genocide be allowed on the market?

How would you like it if your letter for S was suddenly evil? Sorry, you can use S anymore, now it's replaced by Z. Iz that ok with you?

i would be perfectly fine with that. for no other reason other than i dont like the letter 's'.

Hmmm i think it is wrong but thats because fashion is moronic anyways.
My sister is big on fashion and desiging etc and she thinks the Nazi's knew how to dress, seriously she is right, they had some quality tailors.
Of course she hates Nazi(i)sm.-_-
Should the Swastika be put on Fashionware?
No, just like the Sickle and Hammer.

they may have been the most evil people, but you have to admit that they were the best dressed.

Fashion itself is a stupid thing. I dislike fashion shows, models, and anything else that's connected to the creation of innane designs for no reason.

I don't see what the real fuss is about. There are Nazi German uniforms freely available for re-enactors/nostalgists, and they usually come with all the regalia including Swastika arm-band, patches etc. As far as I know no-one has a problem with them.

The point is Farnhamia, looks into the nazis raw murders. TERIIBLE CRIMES YES. But there has been worse. Why should a symbol, that represents a worse form of toltalirianism and genocide be allowed on the market?

The thread is about Nazi swastikas being used in fashion and I felt Narenta was being ... disingenuous, I guess, by saying, "61 years and we're not over it?" A war that kills 2.5% of the world's population isn't something one gets over, even in 61 years. The swastika has become, whether we like it or not, the symbol of that particular evil. Having teenie-boppers wandering around wearing it offends me.

Now, as to the other atrocities you listed, of course they're deplorable. It wasn't my point that WWII and the Nazis are the only world-wide calamity that should be condemned. It just happened to be the one under discussion at the time.

The thread is about Nazi swastikas being used in fashion and I felt Narenta was being ... disingenuous, I guess, by saying, "61 years and we're not over it?" A war that kills 2.5% of the world's population isn't something one gets over, even in 61 years. The swastika has become, whether we like it or not, the symbol of that particular evil. Having teenie-boppers wandering around wearing it offends me.

Now, as to the other atrocities you listed, of course they're deplorable. It wasn't my point that WWII and the Nazis are the only world-wide calamity that should be condemned. It just happened to be the one under discussion at the time.

If in China they marketed a line of fashion with the image of someone getting their brains splattered by a point-blank shot to the head while he's on his knees, do you think the people would accept that as a way to heal the wounds of The Rape of Nanking?

Was not this terrible as well? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_inquisition) Ban the cucifix!

And this? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin)- Ban the hammer and sickle!

Or this? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zulu_War)- Ban the british flag!

Im saying there have been dozens of massacares over the course of history. If your looking into raw numbers of murder, look into the soviet union. They have done waaaaaaaay worse.

Okay, let's ban those things. Let's also ban the sale of serial killer trading cards and other toys that glorify violence, murder, war, or that trivialize real world horrors as if they don't matter because they happened to someone else some place else, or that make mere decorations out of other people's profound beliefs or personal suffering. While we're at it, let's ban fashions and fads that encourage and make money off of people's gross ignorance.

Seriously, I would not want to ban such items just because of how highly I value free speech -- even though this speech/expression is so jaw-droppingly stupid that it makes me want to break something over the head of any idiot I spot wearing a hammer and sickle t-shirt or carrying a Nazi flag purse. And especially over the heads of the parents and teachers of a store clerk who doesn't even know what a Nazi flag is. However, as much as I value free speech, I don't believe freedom comes without consequences, and if life lessons need to be learned here, then I would be happy to allow the sale of such items, but also allow the boycotting of them, the denunciation of the makers and sellers in the media, and, in egregious cases, even the harrassment of their buyers, teeny-boppers though they may be. Let the little shits learn early what the price is of being stupid and self-centered.

Why should it be a problem at all? The hammer and sickle got into fashion during Perestroika, when the USSR eased censorship and trade restrictions and Soviet paraphernalia got out into the world market for the first time. It was considered cute to buy these things to show how we didn't have to enemies anymore. Then the USSR collapsed and Soviet Communism appeared to be dead, and the symbols became nothing but a relic of closed chapter.

Prematurely, in my opinion, because those Soviet-style Communists are far from gone. In fact, they are working hard to get back into the political scene and, based on their history, many in Russia and Eastern Europe believe, if they regain power, there will be revenge taken against those who ousted them. It is possible the hammer and sickle will not remain mere nostalgia. We must hope it does not go back to being the symbol of an enemy.

And that's the problem with the Nazi symbols. They still represent an enemy which is not yet dead and which has never made any attempt to stop being an enemy. How anyone can say that Nazi symbols have become neutral in a world that is so full of neo-nazis, racists, and fascists -- all advocating violence and war -- is simply beyond me.

If such symbols were being printed on clothes with additions like text or other images to make political commentary out of them I would have less of a problem with it. But the fact that they are being treated as if they are harmless decorations, when there is every likelihood that teeny-boppers wearing them could find themselves getting saluted by skinheads as they walk through the mall is not a matter to just shrug off.

If in China they marketed a line of fashion with the image of someone getting their brains splattered by a point-blank shot to the head while he's on his knees, do you think the people would accept that as a way to heal the wounds of The Rape of Nanking?

Maybe I've lost my grip on the thread (a not unlikely event) but are we now saying that the swastikas offered for sale were so offered in order to heal the wounds of World War II? That wasn't my first impression. And no, I wouldn't expect people to accept your proposed image as a way to heal those wounds, certainly not.

The thread is about Nazi swastikas being used in fashion and I felt Narenta was being ... disingenuous, I guess, by saying, "61 years and we're not over it?" A war that kills 2.5% of the world's population isn't something one gets over, even in 61 years. The swastika has become, whether we like it or not, the symbol of that particular evil. Having teenie-boppers wandering around wearing it offends me.

Now, as to the other atrocities you listed, of course they're deplorable. It wasn't my point that WWII and the Nazis are the only world-wide calamity that should be condemned. It just happened to be the one under discussion at the time.

And a dictatorship (USSR) that has murdered twice as much, we are over with? And we allow thier symbols on our clothing. hmmm

Maybe I've lost my grip on the thread (a not unlikely event) but are we now saying that the swastikas offered for sale were so offered in order to heal the wounds of World War II? That wasn't my first impression. And no, I wouldn't expect people to accept your proposed image as a way to heal those wounds, certainly not.

It was suggested that this would help heal the wounds of WW2 and urge people to 'get over it'.

When you wear a symbol, you bear that symbol's meaning, even if you don't mean to. Peace symbol, a statement of peace. Japanese characters, the meaning of those characters translated into whatever language you speak. Swastika, the symbol of those who followed a madman in the conquest to slaughter millions of innocent people.

Moral of the story: Don't treat a Japanese character like just another design or you'll have quite a few people laughing at you when they realize you've got "I SUCK DICK QUITE OFTEN" in big print on the front of your T-shirt.

And a dictatorship (USSR) that has murdered twice as much, we are over with? And we allow thier symbols on our clothing. hmmm

They're no less stupid than swastikas, but the followers (if any) of said dictator are much less present in today's society so it's more likely that those who wear it just don't know what it is.

I was walking past a clothes shop today, and I happened to notice a bag over the arm of a mannequin. It was decorated with swastikas and SS symbols and other Nazi paraphernalia. The clothing store caters mostly to young people (teenyboppers). It actually took me a while to recognise why these symbols were familiar to me. I was just so shocked at seeing them in context.

But it got me to thinking. Now, I am a big advocate of free speech. But, something about the swastika as a fashion item just leaves me with an awful taste in my mouth. I can make all the intellectual arguments, but I just can't persuade myself to buy any of them.

I don't care that it could be perceived as "removing power from the symbol."
I'm not interested in free speech arguments. I just can't reconcile that any item like that ought to be sold.

What do you all think?

P.S. When I went to Centre Management to let them know (we have a lot of veterans and refugees from WWII in my area) that some of the clientele might be offended by the prominent display of a swastika the girl behind the desk didn't know what a swastika was. I thought that was very sad.

Centre managment will probably deal with it.

They're no less stupid than swastikas, but the followers (if any) of said dictator are much less present in today's society so it's more likely that those who wear it just don't know what it is.
Thats funny there is a shop that sell produce from eastern europe in my town called 'Back in the USSR'.Aparently some people think that they were better off under the old system.

I was walking past a clothes shop today, and I happened to notice a bag over the arm of a mannequin. It was decorated with swastikas and SS symbols and other Nazi paraphernalia. The clothing store caters mostly to young people (teenyboppers). It actually took me a while to recognise why these symbols were familiar to me. I was just so shocked at seeing them in context.

But it got me to thinking. Now, I am a big advocate of free speech. But, something about the swastika as a fashion item just leaves me with an awful taste in my mouth. I can make all the intellectual arguments, but I just can't persuade myself to buy any of them.

I don't care that it could be perceived as "removing power from the symbol."
I'm not interested in free speech arguments. I just can't reconcile that any item like that ought to be sold.

What do you all think?

P.S. When I went to Centre Management to let them know (we have a lot of veterans and refugees from WWII in my area) that some of the clientele might be offended by the prominent display of a swastika the girl behind the desk didn't know what a swastika was. I thought that was very sad.

We need to to take back the swastika from the nazis and neo-nazis. It was at one point suggested as an equivilant to Christian Europe's and Islam's Red Cross and Red Crecent, for Hindu and Buddhist Asia. IMO that's still a good idea.

I was walking past a clothes shop today, and I happened to notice a bag over the arm of a mannequin. It was decorated with swastikas and SS symbols and other Nazi paraphernalia. The clothing store caters mostly to young people (teenyboppers). It actually took me a while to recognise why these symbols were familiar to me. I was just so shocked at seeing them in context.

But it got me to thinking. Now, I am a big advocate of free speech. But, something about the swastika as a fashion item just leaves me with an awful taste in my mouth. I can make all the intellectual arguments, but I just can't persuade myself to buy any of them.

I don't care that it could be perceived as "removing power from the symbol."
I'm not interested in free speech arguments. I just can't reconcile that any item like that ought to be sold.

What do you all think?

P.S. When I went to Centre Management to let them know (we have a lot of veterans and refugees from WWII in my area) that some of the clientele might be offended by the prominent display of a swastika the girl behind the desk didn't know what a swastika was. I thought that was very sad.

I think you should never go shopping in that store again and urge your friends to do the same. Something like that might be legal in the country your in, but morally it deserves harsh reprimands, in this case, economic ones.

Me: "Oh, uh, your handbag bears a...uh...Totenkopf, what's the point in that? Do you even know what that means?"
Moron: "I dunno...*giggles*...it looks cool."
Me: "Then you are a total moron. Goodbye."

Could just be your average skull and crossbones, yanno, poison or something.

The difference between the Nazi swastika and the Communist hammer and sickle is that while the swastika has purely negative connotations, it is possible to argue that several groups that acted under the banner of the hammer and sickle were not entirely evil.

During the 20th Century, Communism was responsible globally for bringing millions of people out of poverty and modernising many nation's industries. In addition there are still many Communists throughout the world (in India, for example) who still associate with that symbol whose goal includes only the betterment of their nation and humanity.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a364/DS16/izzue-nazi-01.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a364/DS16/izzue-nazi-02.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a364/DS16/1144176380845.jpg


Like this?

Okay - that last picture was just wrong!

I was walking past a clothes shop today, and I happened to notice a bag over the arm of a mannequin. It was decorated with swastikas and SS symbols and other Nazi paraphernalia. The clothing store caters mostly to young people (teenyboppers). It actually took me a while to recognise why these symbols were familiar to me. I was just so shocked at seeing them in context.

But it got me to thinking. Now, I am a big advocate of free speech. But, something about the swastika as a fashion item just leaves me with an awful taste in my mouth. I can make all the intellectual arguments, but I just can't persuade myself to buy any of them.

I don't care that it could be perceived as "removing power from the symbol."
I'm not interested in free speech arguments. I just can't reconcile that any item like that ought to be sold.

What do you all think?

P.S. When I went to Centre Management to let them know (we have a lot of veterans and refugees from WWII in my area) that some of the clientele might be offended by the prominent display of a swastika the girl behind the desk didn't know what a swastika was. I thought that was very sad.

History is a funny old thing.

For example how long is considered long enought to dig up a grave and call it archeolgy? If we dig up the grave of a world war 1 soldier is that desicration, or archelogy? What about the grave of a Roman soldier?

The real question is how long should we let what has gone in our past effect now or our future?

I for one would be glad to see the negative side of the swastika gone, especaily seeing as how it was a Hindu holy symbol for 1000's of years before the nazis got a hold of it.

I for one would be glad to see the negative side of the swastika gone, especaily seeing as how it was a Hindu holy symbol for 1000's of years before the nazis got a hold of it.

The Hindu swastika and the NAZI swastika look different. The NAZI one has been rotated 45 degrees.

The Hindu swastika and the NAZI swastika look different. The NAZI one has been rotated 45 degrees.


Nope one points clockwise, and the other anti clockwise, they are both though Hindu symbols that represent(amongst other things) the sun.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a364/DS16/1144176380845.jpg


Like this?

Hehe. Quite a while back (10+ years) I had a bunch of neighbors who were recently out of their sevice in the IDF. One night, while drinking with them at a local bar a couple of my J friends came in wearing stuff like that. I was a good friend and pointed out why they should leave RIGHT NOW....

The Hindu swastika and the NAZI swastika look different. The NAZI one has been rotated 45 degrees.

How many people do you think really know that?

Nope one points clockwise, and the other anti clockwise, they are both though Hindu symbols that represent(amongst other things) the sun.

No, the Hindu swastika points the same way as the NAZI one. The one that points in the opposite direction is something else. The NAZI one is rotated 45 degrees. There's been a picture of it posted.

How many people do you think really know that?

Some, a fair few, knowledge is like beer. It means more the older you get!

It was suggested that this would help heal the wounds of WW2 and urge people to 'get over it'.

When you wear a symbol, you bear that symbol's meaning, even if you don't mean to. Peace symbol, a statement of peace. Japanese characters, the meaning of those characters translated into whatever language you speak. Swastika, the symbol of those who followed a madman in the conquest to slaughter millions of innocent people.

Moral of the story: Don't treat a Japanese character like just another design or you'll have quite a few people laughing at you when they realize you've got "I SUCK DICK QUITE OFTEN" in big print on the front of your T-shirt.

Ah, okay, I misunderstood you.

No, the Hindu swastika points the same way as the NAZI one. The one that points in the opposite direction is something else. The NAZI one is rotated 45 degrees. There's been a picture of it posted.


*sigh* Nope, go on goggle it!

How many people do you think really know that?

Very few. Which is why I said it.

*sigh* Nope, go on goggle it!

I did. Guess what? The NAZI swastika is always rotated 45 degrees. The Hindu one is not.

I doubt many people would choose to wear the swastika, but I'm happy they're for sale.

Offense should never be a reason to prohibit anything.

The Hindu swastika and the NAZI swastika look different. The NAZI one has been rotated 45 degrees.

Nope. The swastika by that name is used by Hindus, Buddhist, and Jains. The swastikas used by all "rotate" in either direction, and can be seen at various inclinations. And it's pretty much the same for the numerous other groups that have used that symbol.

Nope. The swastika by that name is used by Hindus, Buddhist, and Jains. The swastikas used by all "rotate" in either direction, and can be seen at various inclinations. And it's pretty much the same for the numerous other groups that have used that symbol.

Can I have a picture of a swastika inclined by 45 degrees then? I haven't been able to find one, and I've been searching.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/HinduSwastika.svg/200px-HinduSwastika.svg.png

The swastika (from Sanskrit स्वस्तिक svastika, from su "well", and asti "being", thus "good fortune" or "well-being") is an equilateral cross with its arms bent at right angles in either left-facing (卍) or right-facing (卐) direction. The swastika is a sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. The Hindu version is often decorated with a dot in each quadrant.

However, in the Western world, it is most widely known and used as a symbol of Nazism (the Hakenkreuz) and this political association has eclipsed its historical status as the fylfot.

It is traditionally oriented so that a main line is horizontal, though it is occasionally rotated at forty-five degrees.

Sauwastika

Main article: Sauwastika


The name sauwastika is sometimes given for the supposedly "evil", left-facing, form of the swastika (卍). A common myth is that the left-facing swastika is generally regarded as evil in Hindu tradition. This is because the much more common form in India is the right-facing swastika. Indians of all faiths sometimes use the symbol in both orientations - mostly for symmetry. Buddhists, outside of India, generally use the left-facing swastika over the right-facing swastika although, again, both can be used. Despite this, the misconception that the left-facing swastika is evil is widespread, even among some contemporary Indian communities.

Some contemporary writers — Servando González, for example — confuse matters even further by asserting that the right-facing swastika, used by the Nazis is in fact the "evil" sauwastika.[5] (González "proves" that the left-facing swastika is the sunwise one with reference to a 1930s box of Standard fireworks from Sivakasi, India.) This inversion – whether intentional or not – might derive from a desire to prove that the Nazis' use of the right-handed swastika was expressive of their "evil" intent. (See also Taboo in Western countries.) But the notion that Adolf Hitler deliberately inverted the "good left-facing" swastika is wholly unsupported by any historical evidence.[6]

http://www.travel-images.com/iceland2.jpg

I work near this building in downtown reykjavík.

I did. Guess what? The NAZI swastika is always rotated 45 degrees. The Hindu one is not.

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-docs/The_Backwards_Swastika_Graphics_Folio.htm

Points to figure 51, h - thye Briton's were nazi's?

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-docs/The_Backwards_Swastika_Graphics_Folio.htm

Points to figure 51, h - thye Briton's were nazi's?

It's Figure 53. And fair enough. I was wrong. You were correct. Did you expect me to not admit that or something?

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-docs/The_Backwards_Swastika_Graphics_Folio.htm

Points to figure 51, h - thye Briton's were nazi's?

I'm not seeing a 51h.

It's Figure 53. And fair enough. I was wrong. You were correct. Did you expect me to not admit that or something?

Yes, actually.

Can I have a picture of a swastika inclined by 45 degrees then? I haven't been able to find one, and I've been searching.

Here's the Briton one:
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-docs/The_Backwards_Swastika_Graphics_Folio_files/image030.jpg

Here's a Buddhist one from Tibet:
http://www.reclaimtheswastika.com/images/monastery.jpg

Here's a bunch from Vietnam:
http://www.itravelnet.com/photos/as/vietnam/vietnam/swastikas.jpg

A Japanese one:
http://www.geocities.com/nazi_police_gestapo/swastika_japan.gif

A Greek one:
http://www.theosophicalsociety.gr/graphics/tsSYMBOLS/SVASTIKA-SYMBOL.jpg

I already conceded, thank you.

I already conceded, thank you.

It's a rare occasion, we like to add insult to injury when we get the chance.

I don't give a damn about him posting pictures. It's the imageleeching that's annoying me.

It's Figure 53. And fair enough. I was wrong. You were correct. Did you expect me to not admit that or something?

Hehe 54 was the one I was looking at. Oops. And yeah, too many here are unwilling to admit they're wrong, so I tend to try for crushing evidence. ;)

I already conceded, thank you.

Lag in posting while I rounded those up. ;)

I don't give a damn about him posting pictures. It's the imageleeching that's annoying me.

Can I have a picture of a swastika inclined by 45 degrees then? I haven't been able to find one, and I've been searching.

You asked for it...

You asked for it...

I was saying that it didn't annoy me, like the other guy thought it did.

This thread reminds me of an episode of Allo Allo where all the knickers in the town are stolen by the resistance to make a ballon for the british airmen and Herr Flick of the gastepo is complaining that the stole Helgal knickers.The ones with the little black Swastikas

Was not this terrible as well? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_inquisition) Ban the cucifix!

And this? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin)- Ban the hammer and sickle!

Or this? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zulu_War)- Ban the british flag!

Im saying there have been dozens of massacares over the course of history. If your looking into raw numbers of murder, look into the soviet union. They have done waaaaaaaay worse.They've also had more time. If you compare the time that the Nazis were around to the amount of people they killed, and the fact that it was the defining cornerstone of their policy, you'll find that the others don't come close.

They've also had more time. If you compare the time that the Nazis were around to the amount of people they killed, and the fact that it was the defining cornerstone of their policy, you'll find that the others don't come close.

Plus, the NAZIs started WWII, which killed over 52 million people.

This thread reminds me of an episode of Allo Allo where all the knickers in the town are stolen by the resistance to make a ballon for the british airmen and Herr Flick of the gastepo is complaining that the stole Helgal knickers.The ones with the little black Swastikas

It would be more interesting if it was about the fallen madonna with the big boobies.

Well.. is the bag pretty?

It would be more interesting if it was about the fallen madonna with the big boobies.
Isnt that in the knockwurst of General von Klinkerhoffen or is that the one of the cracked vase by Van Klomp?

Well I on my more recent trips to Japan, I saw some youths wear similar ones to the one I posted. Apparently it is their form of Che Guevara, to be a rebel.

There is even an Adolf Hitler bar in south korea, which is almost a shrine in some ways, with marble columns, golden eagles, iron crosses and swastikas everywhere, and for sale at the front, with the guests saying "Adolf Hitler" as a cheers before they drink;

http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/2000/0605/southkorea.trouble.html


Also apparently few eastern Asians make an overt distinction between Hitler and the likes of Genghis Khan and Alexander the Great, merely seeing him yet another conqueror in the history of mankind.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4711475.stm

http://www2.dw-world.de/southasia/pressreview/1.160959.1.html

Above is because the books in India supposedly praise Hitler, hence of course controversy.

Hitler lent dignity and prestige to the German government within a short time, establishing a strong administrative set-up.



This restaurant in Mumbai, India only after hefty protest decided to change its name to a more neutral term;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5275866.stm

But quite simply said I am not surprised that a store opens here in the US as well, unlike communism, Faschism, specifically Nazism is not dead as an idealogy. With ironically many adherents in East Asia, India, the middle east, and making a comeback in youths in western nations as well to some degree. We will just have to wait and see what the future brings.



Also Buddhist temple; http://www.swastika-info.com/images/asien/korea/korea_buddhist_temple.jpg

*snip* We will just have to wait and see what the future brings. *snip*


*sigh* How's the cliche go, those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it?

Well I on my more recent trips to Japan, I saw some youths wear similar ones to the one I posted. Apparently it is their form of Che Guevara, to be a rebel.

There is even an Adolf Hitler bar in south korea, which is almost a shrine in some ways, with marble columns, golden eagles, iron crosses and swastikas everywhere, and for sale at the front, with the guests saying "Adolf Hitler" as a cheers before they drink;

http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/2000/0605/southkorea.trouble.html


Also apparently few eastern Asians make an overt distinction between Hitler and the likes of Genghis Khan and Alexander the Great, merely seeing him yet another conqueror in the history of mankind.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4711475.stm

http://www2.dw-world.de/southasia/pressreview/1.160959.1.html

Above is because the books in India supposedly praise Hitler, hence of course controversy.





This restaurant in Mumbai, India only after hefty protest decided to change its name to a more neutral term;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5275866.stm

But quite simply said I am not surprised that a store opens here in the US as well, unlike communism, Faschism, specifically Nazism is not dead as an idealogy. With ironically many adherents in East Asia, India, the middle east, and making a comeback in youths in western nations as well to some degree. We will just have to wait and see what the future brings.



Also Buddhist temple; http://www.swastika-info.com/images/asien/korea/korea_buddhist_temple.jpg

There's no logical way to describe Hitler as anything other than a militant genocidal psychopath. He may have been a "conqueror" like Khan, but that's not why he's remembered. If he'd simply taken over areas of land, people wouldn't hate him as much as they do today - it's what he did in those areas, specifically what he did to certain groups of people, that makes him a bastard. He wasn't a rebel. He's nothing to celebrate about.

Anyone that argues otherwise, Japanese punks and drunks included, are fucking idiots.

How would you like it if your letter for S was suddenly evil? Sorry, you can use S anymore, now it's replaced by Z. Iz that ok with you?

OH CRAP!!

My flag on here has an "S" on it! AH! Now Im a Nazi!!!! :headbang: :eek:

Hey, didn't Prince Harry fancy a nazi during a party. I believe he feels it's a fashion that ought to be brought back. Looked like he had a time of his life.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/01/14/MNG4KAQBF71.DTL

Hey, didn't Prince Harry fancy a nazi during a party. I believe he feels it's a fashion that ought to be brought back. Looked like he had a time of his life.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/01/14/MNG4KAQBF71.DTL

Yeah, until his grandma called him on the carpet for it.

Hey, didn't Prince Harry fancy a nazi during a party. I believe he feels it's a fashion that ought to be brought back. Looked like he had a time of his life.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/01/14/MNG4KAQBF71.DTL

That's different, he's an inbred jackass.

There's no logical way to describe Hitler as anything other than a militant genocidal psychopath. He may have been a "conqueror" like Khan, but that's not why he's remembered. If he'd simply taken over areas of land, people wouldn't hate him as much as they do today - it's what he did in those areas, specifically what he did to certain groups of people, that makes him a bastard. He wasn't a rebel. He's nothing to celebrate about.

Anyone that argues otherwise, Japanese punks and drunks included, are fucking idiots.


Maybe for us westerners yes. But for most Asians, also the Japanese were allies with him, they can see it in that sense, just another western conqueror.

Also differently in India, for Indian nationalist, Adolf Hitler reserves a spot for helping to bring down the British Empire, by weakening it economically to the point where it simply could no longer sustain an empire.

Also remember Communism killed 100+ million people, for many East, and south asians I can imagine the Che Guevara shirts, or anything glorifying communism is a big taboo (exception Communist nations such as China, North Korea, or until recently Vietnam, etc..).

For them Nazi terminology has less of a stigma and taboo to it then for any european or american. So to call the fucking idiots simply because they think differently then you is hardly a sign of maturity.

That's different, he's an inbred jackass.

hmmm......how's it different as far as I'm concerned and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't he 3rd in line for the crown. :D

hmmm......how's it different as far as I'm concerned and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't he 3rd in line for the crown. :D

He is and what's your point? Harry got seriously bad publicity for that little stunt.

Maybe for us westerners yes. But for most Asians, also the Japanese were allies with him, they can see it in that sense, just another western conqueror.

Also differently in India, for Indian nationalist, Adolf Hitler reserves a spot for helping to bring down the British Empire, by weakening it economically to the point where it simply could no longer sustain an empire.

Also remember Communism killed 100+ million people, for many East, and south asians I can imagine the Che Guevara shirts, or anything glorifying communism is a big taboo (exception Communist nations such as China, North Korea, or until recently Vietnam, etc..).

For them Nazi terminology has less of a stigma and taboo to it then for any european or american. So to call the fucking idiots simply because they think differently then you is hardly a sign of maturity.

I don't think you understood correctly:

He's a psychopath that killed for no reason. Killed, a lot. Those who allied with him did a bad thing, and those who don't apologize for it are ignorant.

Just because I'm friends with a guy doesn't mean I'm going to glorify him while ignoring his faults - especially if he just goes around killing random people.

I've never said this before, but here - Fuck their point of view. This is a situation where compromise does not work. Hitler apologists are bad enough without encouragement from people who hail him to be a great conqueror.

The only possible way you can see Hitler as a great conqueror is if the only thing you value in life is power and those who have it. In that case, you're most likely an evil bastard with no morals. I certainly hope there aren't many people in the world like this, much less Japanese people drinking and having fun.

The swastika is awesome. It's not it's fault Hitler hijacked it.

We are not just talking about swastikas here. We are talking about nazi flags and SS symbols.

Ya know whats also funny. Nazis were sub-human murdering bastards, but I see ALOT of communist paraphenillia, (ex. Hammer and sickle, CCCP, USSR) and yet... where is the controversy? Didnt stalin allows millions of his people too starve too death, while sending millions more innocent people too freez too death in Siberia?? Those symbols represented such a thing!! *takes deep breath, goes back too soda*

Yep. And he also sent millions of his people to die fighting the nazi scum. And if he hadn't done so, we'd all be goose-stepping, saluting, and speaking German right now. I'm not sure if one excuses the other, but ...

Yep. And he also sent millions of his people to die fighting the nazi scum. And if he hadn't done so, we'd all be goose-stepping, saluting, and speaking German right now. I'm not sure if one excuses the other, but ...

An overstatement, if Stalin had remained neutral the bomb that fell on August 6, 1945 would have fallen on Berlin, Hamburg, Frankfurt or Munich.

It should be noted that the swatiska was actually a popular and positive symbol before Hitler started using it. It was a symbol of good luck and happy times. Even the Boy Scouts and women's Hockey teams had been known to use it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4711475.stm

http://www2.dw-world.de/southasia/pr....160959.1.html

This is disturbing.
‘‘Hitler adopted aggressive policy and led the Germans towards ardent nationalism.’’ Yep, sounds pretty objective to me.
‘‘Hitler lent dignity and prestige to the German government in a short time by establishing a strong administrative set-up.’’ I guess that's what happened.
‘‘He (Hitler) adopted a new economic policy and brought prosperity to Germany.’’ Well, didn't he?

This one, from another article, is even better: "In many parts of India even well educated people have a completely uncritical approach to the Nazi-era and the German dictator."

So basically, if you don't go all "ZOMG EVIL NAZIS KILL THEM ALL!!!1" as a knee-jerk reaction every time you hear Hitler mentioned, you're personally responsible for the Holocaust. If you want to indoctrinate your country's schoolchildren with this mindset, that's all fine and dandy, but don't force it on countries that had entirely different agendas, or even had no part, in the war. Schoolbooks should be objective. That means no calling anybody evil; just lists and descriptions of what they did. (Although defining Holocaust as an "internal achievement" might need some adjustment.)

He's a psychopath that killed for no reason. Killed, a lot. Those who allied with him did a bad thing, and those who don't apologize for it are ignorant.

Just because I'm friends with a guy doesn't mean I'm going to glorify him while ignoring his faults - especially if he just goes around killing random people.

I think you're confusing him with the Soviets, who killed millions of random people just to keep the rest in check. Hitler did have his reasons, mainly concerning the well-being and superiority of Germany and the German race. Whether those reasons are in any way acceptable is an entirely different matter, but you can't claim he did it just for kicks.

I might agree that Italy did a bad thing allying with Germany, but does your statement also include India, which sought its help to gain independence? Does it include Finland, which accepted Germany's help under Soviet onslaught? The enemy of your enemy isn't your friend anymore? How about some Eastern European countries, which, as I suspect, did it mostly to save themselves the trouble of hostile German occupation?

I was walking past a clothes shop today, and I happened to notice a bag over the arm of a mannequin. It was decorated with swastikas and SS symbols and other Nazi paraphernalia. The clothing store caters mostly to young people (teenyboppers). It actually took me a while to recognise why these symbols were familiar to me. I was just so shocked at seeing them in context.

But it got me to thinking. Now, I am a big advocate of free speech. But, something about the swastika as a fashion item just leaves me with an awful taste in my mouth. I can make all the intellectual arguments, but I just can't persuade myself to buy any of them.

I don't care that it could be perceived as "removing power from the symbol."
I'm not interested in free speech arguments. I just can't reconcile that any item like that ought to be sold.

What do you all think?

P.S. When I went to Centre Management to let them know (we have a lot of veterans and refugees from WWII in my area) that some of the clientele might be offended by the prominent display of a swastika the girl behind the desk didn't know what a swastika was. I thought that was very sad.

Didn't bother reading the other posts. But... whoever wears this stuff will eventually get their asses kicked. Also, the idiots will be easy to spot in the crowd. Kinda like when the Nazi's made Jews wear pieces of 'flair', just so they would be known. Dosen't hurt to have the tables turned. The best part? It's all voluntary!

You know in these discussions a lot of people like to point out that the Soviets killed more people than the Nazis, but this ignores two things.
One. The Soviets were around longer than the Nazis so their killing was more spread out. This is the same reason that Queen Mary I of England got the monicker(sp) "Bloody Mary" over the persecution that took place during her reign, while Elizabeth I who was responsible for around the same number of deaths during her rule didn't, Mary stacked them up quickly while Elizabeth spread them out.
Two. It isn't necesarily the numbers the Nazi's killed that upsets people as the way they did it. The killings done by the Soviets were little different from those done by the Tsarists, or any other athoritarian system that came before them. The Nazis however shocked people due to the systematic nature they employeed, which stood out even among genocides because of how well organized it was. Its kind of like the diferance in reaction that a Movie villian that is cold and calculating will garner compared to one thats merely a nut case.

Anyway IMHO I think those to reasons explain alot of the diference in percepton between the two.

I don't think you understood correctly:

He's a psychopath that killed for no reason. Killed, a lot. Those who allied with him did a bad thing, and those who don't apologize for it are ignorant.

Just because I'm friends with a guy doesn't mean I'm going to glorify him while ignoring his faults - especially if he just goes around killing random people.

I've never said this before, but here - Fuck their point of view. This is a situation where compromise does not work. Hitler apologists are bad enough without encouragement from people who hail him to be a great conqueror.

The only possible way you can see Hitler as a great conqueror is if the only thing you value in life is power and those who have it. In that case, you're most likely an evil bastard with no morals. I certainly hope there aren't many people in the world like this, much less Japanese people drinking and having fun.

Not a very objective view of the matter I see. Well no one can blame you.

But first of all, Hitler was in no way a psychopath who killed people for "kicks" he had an indoctrinated idealogy that based heavily on eugenics, on the theory of racial superiority and nationalism. He killed firstly mentally retarded people, and otherwise heavily genetically impaired persons to prevent their bloodlines from spreading their defects, his next step was banning all interracial breeding between the "Herren Rasse" and other races (poles for example, and other slavs). His next step came in '41 with the eradication of the Jews, whom he viewed as genetically inferior, and also in his distorted opinion were partially responsible for the loss of WW1.

Hardly no reason now is it? Of course you can disagree with this, and from a humane point perhaps you are right. But conclusively he held his beliefs, tried to enforce them, and you along with many others hold different views on eugenics.

As for why it is so controversial and hated. I think exactly because "unlike" most other killings which were just power hunger and with no purpose done by tyrants. This particular one did have a cold, calculating goal, to get rid of all genetic diseases, all unwanted traits, simply in the easiest way, round them up and systematically gas them like you would to cattle or animals. As a matter of fact the way I see it the Holocaust was a mass-breeding programme, only this time it was humans not animals that were its subjects.


As for using the swastika, I am neutral on this. I think that if you want to wear it, go ahead. If you support Nazism and its goals and tenants, is your political choice, perhaps not one I would like or adhere to, but is a system like any other to some degree.

It depends on what kind of swastika. In Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain rituals it is used frequently. In Japan it is a manji made facing right. It is used a symbol for strength and intelligence. The fucking Nazis desecrated it in the eyes of the world. (In the dubbed versions of the anime and manga Naruto, one character who had a manji on his forehead had it changed to an X cross)

Actually, i would endorse the (nazi) swastika to be used as a fashion item.

Easier to identify idiots that way.

good point. its better to know.

Actually, i would endorse the (nazi) swastika to be used as a fashion item.

Easier to identify idiots that way.


Yeah, true, man. Then you can easily summon a posse and kick their fucking ass to the middle of next week.

P.S. When I went to Centre Management to let them know (we have a lot of veterans and refugees from WWII in my area) that some of the clientele might be offended by the prominent display of a swastika the girl behind the desk didn't know what a swastika was. I thought that was very sad.

Please tell me your country hates freedom and censors the war. Or that this is some sick joke. I didn't even know it was possible that somebody on this Earth was that idiotic.

P.S. When I went to Centre Management to let them know (we have a lot of veterans and refugees from WWII in my area) that some of the clientele might be offended by the prominent display of a swastika the girl behind the desk didn't know what a swastika was. I thought that was very sad.

What the ****, man?

The idiot didn't know what a swastika was? I mean, even I know what a swastika is, and I'm only 13. You're right, man, it is sad. I mean, with all I'm hearing now, I think American society is becomeing stupider by the minute.

Actually, i would endorse the (nazi) swastika to be used as a fashion item.

Easier to identify idiots that way.Not really. The dangerous ones (the ones that pretend to be good citizens) wouldn't wear the swastikas until they're in power, and the thugs have their ways of identifying themselves already, no need for swastikas.