NationStates Jolt Archive

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Youths wielding iron bars beat up two riot policemen patrolling a rough housing project in a southern Paris suburb, police officials said Wednesday.

One officer was hospitalized with a double fracture of the skull during Tuesday night’s incident in Corbeil-Essonnes, a police source said. His colleague reportedly sustained facial and body injuries.

Police were called in to disperse the gang of up to 30 youths who stoned the unmarked police car as it patrolled the area, police officials said. The police got out of their car, were encircled and attacked. Some of the youths were armed with iron bars, according to reports.

No arrests were made following the incident, police said.

“These youths fear nothing,” a police union official said on LCI television.

Evidently, in France, you can beat the policemen severely, and they won't arrest you for it.

Here in the US, if you attacked two policemen, and tried to beat them with iron bars, even if there were thirty of you, a lot of you would be shot down in the street. The rest would be sent up the river for attempting to murder police.

If I were a policeman in France, I would find another line of work.

The kids were obviously terrorists.

The kids were obviously terrorists.

WTF is up with French police, that people can beat them and get away with it?

You so much as touch a cop in America and you get your ass kicked. They do something like what those punks did, every cop in the city would be after them. Dog meat.

Here in the US, if you attacked two policemen, and tried to beat them with iron bars, even if there were thirty of you, a lot of you would be shot down in the street. True, but if kids in the U.S. decided to harm police, they'd all have guns.

WTF is up with French police, that people can beat them and get away with it?

Try the common sense approach, the youths probably covered their faces and legged it as soon as the attack was over. They would arrest them if they knew who they were, make sense?

Well, with all the 'recent' riots, I understand. Here you have angry youth in slums, and you patrol? In alot of other places there are kind of non verbal agreements...Detroit for example. White police officers do not patrol certain areas, either because there's a "don't fuck up too bad and we won't go in there" policy or "If we go there we're coming out in the meatwagon". Or both. It's common knowladge that A. People hate police, and B. Flowers do not grow in slums for a reason. If you're going to go in there, be careful, and come armed and in force. Or you get what's coming to you, rough crowd.

True, but if kids in the U.S. decided to harm police, they'd all have guns.

And we'd have Swat Vans, Mgs, and Snipers.

Try the common sense approach, the youths probably covered their faces and legged it as soon as the attack was over. They would arrest them if they knew who they were, make sense?

What? Thats to sensible and not anti French enough:mad:

WTF is up with French police, that people can beat them and get away with it?Maybe because both are in no condition to identify their assailants?

True, but if kids in the U.S. decided to harm police, they'd all have guns.
More like rocket launchers and machine gun nests, now that the assault weapons ban is off...

hmmm......and who was the one talking about how ineffective the American police force was?

What is this, DK? Your daily dose of French bashing?

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Evidently, in France, you can beat the policemen severely, and they won't arrest you for it.

Here in the US, if you attacked two policemen, and tried to beat them with iron bars, even if there were thirty of you, a lot of you would be shot down in the street. The rest would be sent up the river for attempting to murder police.

If I were a policeman in France, I would find another line of work.

The article never said they didn't try to arrest them. They weren't able to catch them because they got beaten. Sometimes police lose. It's that simple. That doesn't mean they won't try to arrest them again.

WTF is up with French police, that people can beat them and get away with it?


A pack of people visciously beating police officers iis a situation which happens once in awhile at almost every place which has police officers. Framce has no monopoly on hosting these. it happens in the US and Great Britain too.

It appears to happen a LOT in Moscow too.Roughly a month ago I was looking at a photo essay of the subway system under Moscow which was produced by a commuter. There was a set of about 5 photos in the essay which featured a young Russian cop who had had the dog crap kicked out of him. The captions said that basically the commuters have seen enough cops beaten and left prone on the sidewalk that it no longer shocks or particularly surprises commuters.

And we'd have Swat Vans, Mgs, and Snipers.Not on a routine patrol.

What is this, DK? Your daily dose of French bashing?
Probably part of his daily Anti-European dose...

What is this, DK? Your daily dose of French bashing?

Gee, I post a story about French cops, and all of a sudden, you think it's French bashing.

Nice to know that you're so thin skinned that no one is allowed to criticize anyone you like.

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Evidently, in France, you can beat the policemen severely, and they won't arrest you for it.

Here in the US, if you attacked two policemen, and tried to beat them with iron bars, even if there were thirty of you, a lot of you would be shot down in the street. The rest would be sent up the river for attempting to murder police.


Yes. Because our police are all supermen capable of withstanding 15 to 1 odds. :rolleyes: You also made a rather large leap of logic in determining that the police didn't WANT to arrest the guys instead of being UNABLE to arrest them.

But hey, whatever reality gets you off. That's what I always say.

Yes. Because our police are all supermen capable of withstanding 15 to 1 odds. :rolleyes: You also made a rather large leap of logic in determining that the police didn't WANT to arrest the guys instead of being UNABLE to arrest them.

But hey, whatever reality gets you off. That's what I always say.

Obviously, you're police are either unarmed, or not allowed to shoot people.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1157913668596&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/Printer



Evidently, in France, you can beat the policemen severely, and they won't arrest you for it.

Here in the US, if you attacked two policemen, and tried to beat them with iron bars, even if there were thirty of you, a lot of you would be shot down in the street. The rest would be sent up the river for attempting to murder police.

If I were a policeman in France, I would find another line of work.

Your article said that they were riot policemen. Do you know if Parisian riot police carry firearms? I don't think they do in Montreal. This may explain why the police did not shoot the youths.

WTF is up with French police, that people can beat them and get away with it?

They need to reassign some of the Atlanta airport police to France. There was a story on the news a while back where one policeman body slammed a woman to the ground. Her crime? Not getting out of the drop-off lane fast enough.

Your article said that they were riot policemen. Do you know if Parisian riot police carry firearms? I don't think they do in Montreal. This may explain why the police did not shoot the youths.

That sounds pretty stupid to me.

Obviously, you're police are either unarmed, or not allowed to shoot people.

I'm American, but whatever. My point is that a couple guys with pistols can only do so much against 30 people. It might disperse them if you shot one (or three), but it might also just make them come at you even faster (and kill you when they got there).

Also note that these guys were riot police. They were probably armed with the standard shield + beating stick that most of them have. The thugs might have been on them quicker than they could get their pistols out.

More like rocket launchers and machine gun nests, now that the assault weapons ban is off...

No, rocket launchers in public hands are still illegal, and rifles that fire full auto, much less actual machine guns, are rarely owned by civilians and almost never used in crime.

Yes. Because our police are all supermen capable of withstanding 15 to 1 odds. :rolleyes: You also made a rather large leap of logic in determining that the police didn't WANT to arrest the guys instead of being UNABLE to arrest them.

But hey, whatever reality gets you off. That's what I always say.

Our police would tend to shoot a gang of armed criminals attempting to surround them.

I'm American, but whatever. My point is that a couple guys with pistols can only do so much against 30 people. It might disperse them if you shot one, but it might also just make them come at you even faster (and kill you when they got there).

Also note that these guys were riot police. They were probably armed with the standard shield + beating stick that most of them have. The thugs might have been on them quicker than they could get their pistols out.

One man with a typical 9mm police pistol can shoot 15 people in just a few seconds.

Assuming that they are willing to do so. It's pretty clear that these police were in an unmarked car to start with (obviously, without any weapons to be had in the front seat as well). Either that, or they're not allowed to shoot people who are beating their skulls in with iron bars.

That sounds pretty stupid to me.

Since riot police are responsible for crowd control and disrupting protests, I think this is a very smart idea. Most of the cops assigned to riot duty I've seen quickly get very irritated when the crowd won't listen to them. They often use violence. I assume that they are given nonlethal weapons so that they do not kill someone in anger.

So, you don't know if Parisian riot police are issued firearms?

Your article said that they were riot policemen. Do you know if Parisian riot police carry firearms? I don't think they do in Montreal. This may explain why the police did not shoot the youths.

I thought all French police carried guns. If they were riot police then maybe they had their hands full with batons and riot shields.

And I must say I'm surprised that DK didn't try to suggest the mob were muslims. :p

I believe you'll find that French Police usually patrol unarmed. The Gendarmerie is another matter.

When people are in such large numbers, witnesses don't talk, the evidence is messy and becomes really difficult to arrest and convict people.

One man with a typical 9mm police pistol can shoot 15 people in just a few seconds.


Yeah. I have no doubt that you can fire fifteen rounds, but I seriously doubt that in a real life combat situation you could hit fifteen targets in such a short time. Unless of course, you're James Bond. And I don't think he's working for the Paris police.

Since riot police are responsible for crowd control and disrupting protests, I think this is a very smart idea. Most of the cops assigned to riot duty I've seen quickly get very irritated when the crowd won't listen to them. They often use violence. I assume that they are given nonlethal weapons so that they do not kill someone in anger.

So, you don't know if Parisian riot police are issued firearms?

As I said before (and you couldn't be bothered to read), if they were, they were remarkably unwilling to use them. And if they had no firearm, that's strange.

Here in the US, riot police carry a variety of weapons - so that they can deal with a spectrum of response and not be caught short, as these two seem to have been.

This includes a pistol, pepper spray, taser, shield, and baton.

Some riot police in the US also have shotguns, loaded either with ordinary buckshot, rubber pellets, or beanbag rounds.

Recently, they have also taken to using paintball guns loaded with pepper spray balls.

Since riot police are responsible for crowd control and disrupting protests, I think this is a very smart idea. Most of the cops assigned to riot duty I've seen quickly get very irritated when the crowd won't listen to them. They often use violence. I assume that they are given nonlethal weapons so that they do not kill someone in anger.

So, you don't know if Parisian riot police are issued firearms?

Safety reasons for the policeman too. In a riot or protest, there's 20 people for one policeman. Guess who would end up with the gun that hangs in a holster if things turn ugly. Odds are a few of them would end up in the wrong hands and would kill their owner.

No, rocket launchers in public hands are still illegal, and rifles that fire full auto, much less actual machine guns, are rarely owned by civilians and almost never used in crime.

Tidbit: No legally owned class 3 weapon has ever been used in a crime.

You can own a rocket launcher(some) with a federal permit. You may not own ordinance(ammo).

@ the post that originted the post that I'm quoting:

The assault weapons ban never covered fully automatic firearms, you underinformed and less than motivated person you. Do research, then post. Thank you, have a nice day.

- The Wickerman

That sounds pretty stupid to me.
Riot ploice generally carry no more that batton rounds or what we in Ireland call plastic bullets.Whopping big lumps or rubber that can kill if they hit you in the wrong place.Having riot ploice armed with live ammunition could lead to large numbers of civillians being killed as a result of a minor incident or someone getting triger happy.

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Evidently, in France, you can beat the policemen severely, and they won't arrest you for it.

Here in the US, if you attacked two policemen, and tried to beat them with iron bars, even if there were thirty of you, a lot of you would be shot down in the street. The rest would be sent up the river for attempting to murder police.

If I were a policeman in France, I would find another line of work.

Considering it was in a poor paris suburb, im going out on a limb and saying it was poor muslim kids, and if they would have been arrested, i am sure that paris would have faced rioting again, like last year.

Safety reasons for the policeman too. In a riot or protest, there's 20 people for one policeman. Guess who would end up with the gun that hangs in a holster if things turn ugly. Odds are a few of them would end up in the wrong hands and would kill their owner.

Funny how that doesn't seem to happen here.

Considering it was in a poor paris suburb, im going out on a limb and saying it was poor muslim kids, and if they would have been arrested, i am sure that paris would have faced rioting again, like last year.

I could care less if it's Muslim kids or not. What I'm wondering is why the police made such a grave mistake.

No arrests were made following the incident, police said.

“These youths fear nothing,” a police union official said on LCI television. :confused:

As I said before (and you couldn't be bothered to read), if they were, they were remarkably unwilling to use them. And if they had no firearm, that's strange.

Here in the US, riot police carry a variety of weapons - so that they can deal with a spectrum of response and not be caught short, as these two seem to have been.

This includes a pistol, pepper spray, taser, shield, and baton.

Some riot police in the US also have shotguns, loaded either with ordinary buckshot, rubber pellets, or beanbag rounds.

Recently, they have also taken to using paintball guns loaded with pepper spray balls.

Deep Kimchi, spare me the reading comprehension insults. I gave you a possible explanation as to why the officers did not shoot. You saying it is stupid does not answer my question as to wherther or not they were armed. I assumed you would think it is stupid. You know what? I'll answer my own question.

The wikipedia article on the Paris riots says that the Parisian riot police were armed with nonlethal weapons during the riots. If we assume that this is normal for Parisian riot police, we are faced with a certain picture.

Two men, at night, attacked by a much larger group of men. Both groups have nonlethal weapons. I don't think training, any body armour they may have, or gadgetry would suffice against 15 to 1 odds. Your mileage may vary.

:confused:

Well, they're not afraid of the police. For one, the police aren't going to draw guns and shoot them. For another, the police aren't going to arrest them.

And we'd have Swat Vans, Mgs, and Snipers.

Do we have them on every rooftop ready to disperse every crowd gathered in every city?

My thought is that the police dispatch royally screwed the pooch by sending two officers to a disturbance of this size.

My thought is that the police dispatch royally screwed the pooch by sending two officers to a disturbance of this size.

That's pretty obvious as well.

Well, they're not afraid of the police. For one, the police aren't going to draw guns and shoot them. For another, the police aren't going to arrest them.

The police arn't going to arrest them?
Where did this come from?
I'm pretty sure that, given the chance and a positive I.D., those guys would be quite arrested, if they made it to jail at all.

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Evidently, in France, you can beat the policemen severely, and they won't arrest you for it.

Here in the US, if you attacked two policemen, and tried to beat them with iron bars, even if there were thirty of you, a lot of you would be shot down in the street. The rest would be sent up the river for attempting to murder police.

If I were a policeman in France, I would find another line of work.

Shot down is maybe a little more than they would do. First they would pull out their guns and tell you to get and the ground and stop being a damn itiot. Then if you still tried to attack them with a metal pipe you would get shot.

True, but if kids in the U.S. decided to harm police, they'd all have guns.

Bullshit you shoot a cop and your a deadman in the US it doesnt matter who you are you wont even make it to court the cops will hunt your ass down and kill you if you kill one of their own any one who shoots a cop in America is asking to be shot down.

Yeah. I have no doubt that you can fire fifteen rounds, but I seriously doubt that in a real life combat situation you could hit fifteen targets in such a short time. Unless of course, you're James Bond. And I don't think he's working for the Paris police.

True but all you would have to do is hit 10 or so between all of you guys you reall think a mob will still attack after watching a third of their buddies be gunned down.

Let's be rational here, in France you eat frogs, you can't expect the police to be using their brains. Obviously.

Let's be rational here, in France you eat frogs, you can't expect the police to be using their brains. Obviously.

Alright I think American cops are better equipped and are allowed to enforce the law and their own saftey better, but to say French cops dont have brains cause their French. Well Thats kind of Arrogant.

I've heard some terrible things about how they treat Muslims in France. Oh wait, I heard some horrible things about how they treat them in the US as well.

Alright I think American cops are better equipped and are allowed to enforce the law and their own saftey better, but to say French cops dont have brains cause their French. Well Thats kind of Arrogant.

I'd say French cops not having brains cause they are french is good enough of a reason for me to be right. If not, I could always use "The Great Britain" to enforce my opinion. They wouldn't mind.

I've heard some terrible things about how they treat Muslims in France. Oh wait, I heard some horrible things about how they treat them in the US as well.

They dont treat muslims that bad in America. At least not in my experience then again i live in Chicago. Probably one of the more liberal and accepting places in the US but i went to school with a few Muslims and was actually friends with one when all this 9/11 crap was going on. There were some itiots but i think most Americans including police officers realize the difference between terrorists and muslims. Airport security probably does profile muslims in America in fact i know they do, but not actual cops.

I'd say French cops not having brains cause they are french is good enough of a reason for me to be right. If not, I could always use "The Great Britain" to enforce my opinion. They wouldn't mind.

I am not gonna argue with you i am not french so i dont care.

Bullshit you shoot a cop and your a deadman in the US it doesnt matter who you are you wont even make it to court the cops will hunt your ass down and kill you if you kill one of their own any one who shoots a cop in America is asking to be shot down.

Bullshit.

Bullshit.

Hahaha its not if a cop thinks he can get away with killing a man who killed another cop he is going to kill you. In America cops have a brotherhood mentallity and if you mess with one of them your messing with all of them believe me i know my Father was a cop.
Granted they cant just gun down any one for no reason but there are a number of reasons a cop could justify shooting you with. and the fact is if you allready killed a cop your not going to come quietly and a cops not going to hesitate to use any reason to kill you. If you are threatening to the cop if you threaten other people if your armed all reasons cops can shoot you.

If you get get out of the car when a cop pulls you over in America is enough reason to pull his gun on you not shoot you but pull his gun because its suspicious behavior. Believe me my father only used his gun once it was because some one shot his buddy and paralyzed him my father shot and killed the man.

I'd say French cops not having brains cause they are french is good enough of a reason for me to be right. If not, I could always use "The Great Britain" to enforce my opinion. They wouldn't mind.

:rolleyes:

I'd say Sweden has lost a few IQ points since electing a new government if that is the style of arguments one can find there nowadays.

WTF is up with French police, that people can beat them and get away with it?
They're tougher than American police and hence can handle it / they don't want to shoot or beat people up and provoke any more riots like those of last year?

They dont treat muslims that bad in America. At least not in my experience then again i live in Chicago. Probably one of the more liberal and accepting places in the US but i went to school with a few Muslims and was actually friends with one when all this 9/11 crap was going on. There were some itiots but i think most Americans including police officers realize the difference between terrorists and muslims. Airport security probably does profile muslims in America in fact i know they do, but not actual cops.



...wtf? Please tell me you're joking. Calling Chicago liberal or accepting is like calling George Wallace progressive.

I've lived here my entire life and it has always been my experiance that Chicago is a racist, dirty town filled to the brim with small people who claim they aren't racist because they've never attended a lynching. Do yourself a favor, take a look at how segregated Chicago is. Go eat dinner on the Northwest side with a black person and see if anyone starts to get fidgety. Better yet, go down to Bridgeport and ask the first person you see why there aren't any blacks in the neighborhood. Failing that, you can always test the cops and(if you're white) drive through a non-white neighborhood after dark, see if you get pulled over and asked if you're buying drugs.

Sure, Chicago doesn't have many problems with muslims, but thats mostly because we don't have that many muslims.

let me start by saying, I have nothing against any police officer anywhere. but these officers did make some mistakes.


Police were called in to disperse the gang of up to 30 youths who stoned the unmarked police car as it patrolled the area, police officials said.

The police got out of their car, were encircled and attacked. Some of the youths were armed with iron bars, according to reports. ok, now is it me or does this sound like the chain of events depicted.
1) Unmarked Patrol car gets stoned by a gang of youths (numbering 30).
2) officers in unmarked car call for backup.
3) the two officers then get out of their car
4) the two officers from the stoned car get encircled, and beaten up.

so why didn't the officers wait in their car, or better yet, keep driving forwards. by getting out of their car (and getting seperated from it) they were asking for a beating.

and while I don't know the French procedures, here in America, if it's broadcast "Officers attacked (location given)" the only thing that will bring backup faster would be the radio call "Officers Down!" I've seen cops stop whatever they were doing (short of processing another arrest) to rush to the assistance of another officer.

also, looks like an argument for some dash mounted cameras...

Bullshit you shoot a cop and your a deadman in the US it doesnt matter who you are you wont even make it to court the cops will hunt your ass down and kill you if you kill one of their own any one who shoots a cop in America is asking to be shot down.

wrong. the shooter will live to see court. Unfortunatly, the shooter has proven he/she will shoot a cop, so if that person does anything even remotely interpreted as threatening...

but if that shooter cooperates, he will live.

wrong. the shooter will live to see court. Unfortunatly, the shooter has proven he/she will shoot a cop, so if that person does anything even remotely interpreted as threatening...

but if that shooter cooperates, he will live.

Two words, drop piece. Honestly, it all depends on jurisdiction and what cop shows up on the scene. Where I live(Chicago) almost every cop I've ever known has carried a second gun(a "drop piece") that they took off a criminal early in their career, just in case. The police know that they get the benefit of the doubt. Make no mistake, if a cop killer gets caught within the first few days theres as good a chance that a body will turn up with a gun in it's hands as someone will be brought in alive.