NationStates Jolt Archive

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

It ain't a goddamn choice. It's biological.

Gee, you know, who gives a fuck?

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...In addition to what others have said, not all gay men have anal sex.

well for lesbians at least the sex is better because you know there bodies I suppose the same would go for gay men

And you can adopt, have a guy to do DIY and can also dress fabulous :D

though yeah its biological with a pinch of preference

Would you rather sleep with a woman you were attracted to and loved, but that your friends and family looked down at you for having interest in, or the woman they thought you should date who you absolutely had no interest in?

In addition to what others have said, not all gay men have anal sex.

Yeah, it doesn't seem to pleasurable to me.

It ain't a goddamn choice. It's biological.
Is that proven? Why has homosexuality increased over the last 200 years?

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

A. Not a choice for the most part.

B. When it is (which does happen, though not most of the time), mostly because it's cool/gets you laid more often.

In addition to what others have said, not all gay men have anal sex.

Thank you! I'm bi and anal sex weirds me out like woah.

Is that proven? Why has homosexuality increased over the last 200 years?

It hasn't, it's just been admitted more over the last 200 years. And it certainly has been proven biological, studies have shown different responses to various pheromones in gays, for example.

They're gay because they saw you!

Is that proven? Why has homosexuality increased over the last 200 years?

because you won't be hung for being gay?

Is that proven? Why has homosexuality increased over the last 200 years?

What makes you think it has increased in the last 200 years? It was pretty prevalent in classical times.

Is that proven? Why has homosexuality increased over the last 200 years?

Because God said, "Eh, what the hell. Let them go at it."

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

Oh that's right, I forgot that life was so easy and choices were so simple because everything is black and white. Homosexuals are always gay by choice 100% of the time freely and openly, especially in a country where people like you treat them like animals, because they're just dumb, right!?! lawzl0rlzzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzzx 0mg lets go 2 church!!!!

I always wondered "why do men have G-spots?"

Why has homosexuality increased over the last 200 years?

It has?

Some of the estimates from 200 years ago are very low, yes, but the data collection was hardly reliable. And it isn't even certain what percentage of present-day people are gay.

Is that proven? Why has homosexuality increased over the last 200 years?

It hasn't. In these days (some places at least) and in times in the past you can admit you are homosexual without worrying about being killed.

I understand that the Guild of Homosexual Intent has a very good dental program.

"There is no scientific data that substantiates a genetic or biologic basis for same-sex attraction. Anybody can change." Richard Cohen, at the year 2000 PFOX convention, 2000-MAY-19. 3

It hasn't. In these days (some places at least) and in times in the past you can admit you are homosexual without worrying about being killed.

I guess so. You could still be killed where i live :p

"There is no scientific data that substantiates a genetic or biologic basis for same-sex attraction. Anybody can change." Richard Cohen, at the year 2000 PFOX convention, 2000-MAY-19. 3

And who exactly is Richard Cohen? Is he an expert in a relevant field? I can make all kinds of claims, but that doesn't make them true.

edit: Ah, nevermind, he's the guy who thinks he can "cure" homosexuals.

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

I live in Oklahoma, the middle of the bible belt, and I don't see anything wrong with homosexuality. From what I've seen and heard, we have a pretty high rate of it here. Your environment shouldn't dictate how you feel about a person's sexuality, and if it does, that just shows what a weak character you have.

"wiht a stick up your butt after sex"

Please grow up, or kill yourself. Please.

"There is no scientific data that substantiates a genetic or biologic basis for same-sex attraction. Anybody can change." Richard Cohen, at the year 2000 PFOX convention, 2000-MAY-19. 3

Wonderful. A quote from the society of Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays. And this is more credible than scientific studies why?

I live in Oklahoma, the middle of the bible belt, and I don't see anything wrong with homosexuality. From what I've seen and heard, we have a pretty high rate of it here. Your environment shouldn't dictate how you feel about a person's sexuality, and if it does, that just shows what a weak character you have.

"wiht a stick up your butt after sex"

Please grow up, or kill yourself. Please.

I doubt he'll be doing the former... At this rate, anyway.

Wonderful. A quote from the society of Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays. And this is more credible than scientific studies why?
Since they're not gay that therefore have an objective view of the matter.

I guess so. You could still be killed where i live :p

And quite probably vice versa. :p

I doubt he'll be doing the former... At this rate, anyway.

Well then, I can only hope for the latter....

I guess so. You could still be killed where i live :p

People should calm down in that case. There are a lot of people out there who are absolute bastards without going after people who aren't harming anyone.

I guess so. You could still be killed where i live :p

I can only assume from your name and your sig that you're from oklahoma, and if that's so, then I have NO idea what you're talking about. Sure a lot of the older people look down upon being gay, but I've never in my life come across someone who would actually kill someone for that.

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

You're a moron.

a) So if everyone in your area preferred Pepsi over Coke, should you have to be a pepsi drinker?

b) Of course you have no idea, you wouldn't because you're too closed minded.

c) It doesnt feel like a stick up your butt after sex.

d) You can adopt, and you CAN have a family too.

"There is no scientific data that substantiates a genetic or biologic basis for same-sex attraction. Anybody can change." Richard Cohen, at the year 2000 PFOX convention, 2000-MAY-19. 3

Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality (http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html)

Yeah, it doesn't seem to pleasurable to me.

It's actually more pleasurable than penile-vaginal, or so I've heard

Men have their prostate gland thing in their anus, and that's the equivalent to the female g-spot

Is that proven? Why has homosexuality increased over the last 200 years?

Because before people where afraid to come out.

I always wondered "why do men have G-spots?"

ah found this out myself: http://uk.askmen.com/love/vanessa/23_love_secrets.html

You ask 'why are you attracted to the same sex?' but homosexual people, replacing your arguments with their own, could just as easily ask 'Why are you attracted to the opposite sex?'

So come on, why do you find the other sex attractive?

I'm bisexual, So my question would be 'Why not be attracted to both?'

I'm going to go through your questions step by step.

'Where i live its very looked down upon...'
Yes, but not everyone has the same ideals, morals and customs as those from your particular locale. Case in point: In general, most Christians look down upon sexual promiscuity. They see it as wrong, as sex is for marriage and with a single partner. In some regions of the world, however, it is positively encouraged. The people in these places would wonder why on earth you'd only have one partner. Different people, different places.

i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex!
See above. Some people are just attracted to their own gender. And yes, it is often a genetic thing. These people see nothing wrong with being attracred to their own sex, they see it as natural for them as you do when you're attracted to the opposite sex.

I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex.
Sex and sexual practises are different for everyone. Some people are fine with the straightforward missionary pose, others prefer a bit of experimentation, so like it rough, other prefer tender, and some people get immense sexual pleasure from the use of butt-plugs. In men, stimulating the prostate gland can be as pleasurable as finding the G-spot is for a woman. If they like it, then who are you to question them? There are a lot of ideas I don't find appealing in the slightest, but if other people enjoy them, then so be it. Let them have their fun.

You cant have kids with your partner, no family...
In some places, you can adopt even if you are in a same-sex partnership. And what if you don't like children? No offense, but I personally find the idea giving birth to a screaming baby, raising it through the rough areas of toddlerhood, adolescenece etc. and giving up 20 or more years of my life supporting this person financially, emotionally and domestically completely unappealing. In short, I hate children, and I'm not much of a people-person either. Not everyone wants to 'have a family' other than their own, their spouse and in-laws, and it doesn't mean that your relationship is any less vaild or loving if you choose not to bring more children into the world.

So their you have it. Your argument is based solely on your own experiences, but not everyone fits into your own views of love and happiness. Enjoy your life, and and let others do the same in their own way.

It's actually more pleasurable than penile-vaginal, or so I've heard

actually it involves stimulating a mans prostate gland and it makes the penis organism much better (you can even orgasm to it)

So next time a woman offers to stick her finger in your ass I suggest you take it;)

Since they're not gay that therefore have an objective view of the matter.

NO ONE has an objective view of "the matter"

Everyone is prejudiced, either pro-gay or anti-gay

Scientists are probably the least prejudiced, and so they should be trusted more than random people

Besides, how would the person's friends and co-workers know if their friend was still gay and just hiding it to get away from the therapy?

I'd also like to add that if anyone thinks homosexuality is 'unnatural', they should look to the rest of the animal kingdom. Homosexual activity for no apparent reason other than pleasure has been recorded in dolphins, manatees and even whales. Google search is your friend. Look it up, along with 'homosexuality and genetics'.

Besides, how would the person's friends and co-workers know if their friend was still gay and just hiding it to get away from the therapy?

Magic.

It ain't a goddamn choice. It's biological.

whered u get that from?! if its biological then why rnt ur parents gay? did it skip a few generations or something?o wait that wouldnt work because then ur familys line would come to a grinding halt with them well dang guess its not biological then

Homosexuality's probably been pretty constant over time (I can think of examples from renaissance Italy, variety of courts of european monarchs, initiation ceremonies to various groups, etc). But don't conflate it with 'being gay' - that's just our current culture's thoughts and labels for folk who are partly/predominantly/completely homosexual in their lovelives :) - and its associated terms, practices, and prejudices ('coming out', arguments about promiscuity, effeminacy/butchness etc etc!).

I understand that the Guild of Homosexual Intent has a very good dental program.

And great discounts at the GAP.

whered u get that from?! if its biological then why rnt ur parents gay? did it skip a few generations or something?o wait that wouldnt work because then ur familys line would come to a grinding halt with them well dang guess its not biological then

No, that would be HEREDITARY, not biological.

Biological things have nothing to do with the parents

I think of it differently, though

You know how some guys like blondes, some guys like brunettes, some like big curvy girls, and some like twigs like Paris Hilton?

Well, being homosexual is like that, it's just the "type" that you are attracted to

Not everyone is attracted to the same characteristics as you are

And great discounts at the GAP.

And the eye care is outstanding.

whered u get that from?! if its biological then why rnt ur parents gay? did it skip a few generations or something?o wait that wouldnt work because then ur familys line would come to a grinding halt with them well dang guess its not biological then

Mr. Charterland, may I introduce you to my good friend Mr. Dominant Gene and his husband Mr. Recessive Gene...

how would the person's friends and co-workers know if their friend was still gay and just hiding it to get away from the therapy?

That's a very good point. If I was gay, I certainly wouldn't say anything. I probably wouldn't get sent to therapy for being gay, but I would from the emotional trauma that would follow coming out at my school. Not to mention my brother disowning me. (He's a bit like Okielahoma)

Oh, and Microsoft Word has a good spell checker. So does open office, and you can also use SpellCheck.net. I found it on Google in 0.04 seconds.


And here's a fluffle, because nobody has used one yet. :fluffle:


EDIT:
whered u get that from?! if its biological then why rnt ur parents gay? did it skip a few generations or something?o wait that wouldnt work because then ur familys line would come to a grinding halt with them well dang guess its not biological then
Not to mention that if you pass high school biology (Though by your spelling you must not have passed fifth grade), you might know that recessive traits can hide themselves for many generations, and suddenly appear. I know, because I've seen it happen in my own family.

I can only assume from your name and your sig that you're from oklahoma, and if that's so, then I have NO idea what you're talking about. Sure a lot of the older people look down upon being gay, but I've never in my life come across someone who would actually kill someone for that.
But you didnt bother to read my location...:headbang:

whered u get that from?! if its biological then why rnt ur parents gay? did it skip a few generations or something?o wait that wouldnt work because then ur familys line would come to a grinding halt with them well dang guess its not biological then

Just type 'homosexuality and genetics' into a search engine. You will find news items and studies all linking genes and homosexuality. However, (and I'm guessing here) maybe it's a recessive gene? Like, for instance, the one for blonde hair or blue eyes. That would make it rarer, and thus the human race wouldn't grind to a halt just due to an overwhelming number of homosexuals. However, humans are not all cookie-cutter identical. I mean, does everyone in your family look EXACTLY the same as you? Do they all have the same personalities? No? Then by your logic, your basic appearance, voice, health problems or strengths and personality are all choice, not genetic at all. And like i said, homosexuality isn't restricted to humans.

whered u get that from?! if its biological then why rnt ur parents gay? did it skip a few generations or something?o wait that wouldnt work because then ur familys line would come to a grinding halt with them well dang guess its not biological then

You can pass genes along in nondirect ways. Dem will be able to explain it better than I, but long story short, a certain percentage of homosexuals in a species provides an evolutionary advantage.

whered u get that from?! if its biological then why rnt ur parents gay? did it skip a few generations or something?o wait that wouldnt work because then ur familys line would come to a grinding halt with them well dang guess its not biological then

I'm assuming that posts a joke because i detect unbelievably high levels of lack of knowledge in that post.

Tell you what, lets start off with recessive traits, they lay dormant with a parent and are only manifested when both parties have the trait, even then the common example is only 1/4 of the time.

Two throughout history in societies untouched by christianity or the age of enlightenment, homosexuality hasn't been an issue because sexuality was not seen in such rigid terms. What one chose to do with a man one day did not preclude you having sex with a woman. It was widely held that it didn't really matter what you did so long as you had an heir.

Homosexuality may well also be a trait instilled congenitally but not genetically, either through an imbalance in chemical during a pregnancy, evidence for which is an increased likelyhood of homosexuality in younger siblings, or a genetic predisposition for such a developement during pregnancy but not a black and white, certain event.

In closing, your ignorant.

The End.

You can pass genes along in nondirect ways. Dem will be able to explain it better than I, but long story short, a certain percentage of homosexuals in a species provides an evolutionary advantage.

The BBC ran an article that mentioned that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3735668.stm

You cant have kids with your partner, no family...
In some places, you can adopt even if you are in a same-sex partnership. And what if you don't like children? No offense, but I personally find the idea giving birth to a screaming baby, raising it through the rough areas of toddlerhood, adolescenece etc. and giving up 20 or more years of my life supporting this person financially, emotionally and domestically completely unappealing. In short, I hate children, and I'm not much of a people-person either. Not everyone wants to 'have a family' other than their own, their spouse and in-laws, and it doesn't mean that your relationship is any less vaild or loving if you choose not to bring more children into the world.

So youre a hermit?
And the world is becoming a place with fewer families? Thats just wrong.:mad: What ever happened to the family centred life? Ass holes

whered u get that from?! if its biological then why rnt ur parents gay? did it skip a few generations or something?o wait that wouldnt work because then ur familys line would come to a grinding halt with them well dang guess its not biological then

homosexuals can still have children, they're not sterile.

assuming an interaction of genetics-environment-experience as a basis for homosexuality, you'd expect the relevant genes to be expressed phenotypically only some of the time.

genes can be recessive, genes dictating homosexuality-ness could be 'carried' (put crudely, and borrowing a term from pathology) without being expressed.

homosexuals _only_ having sex with members of the same sex is not a given, and is only unusual in a gay culture.

adaptive advantages of homosexuality (suggestions include forming social bonds; a pool of extra caregivers, less likely to have children themselves, who can help raise young; as an added dimension of roletaking) may encourage its continued existence genetically.

whered u get that from?! if its biological then why rnt ur parents gay? did it skip a few generations or something?o wait that wouldnt work because then ur familys line would come to a grinding halt with them well dang guess its not biological then

My family has a genetic tendency towards autism. That doesn't mean that I am autistic, it doesn't mean that my parents are autistic, it doesn't mean that my grandparents are autistic. In fact, I am likely descended from an unbroken line of non-autistic people. The tendency is still genetic. It manifests in some, and not in others, based on a variety of complex genetic and environmental factors.

As for homosexuality specifically, you're right in that exclusive homosexuality looks to be evolutionarily untenable, but you neglect the power of culture. Cultures that forbid exclusive homosexuality can force homosexuals to have children, thus making homosexuality evolutionarily viable.

I don't care about having kids or anything. I just want to find a man I love.

"There is no scientific data that substantiates a genetic or biologic basis for same-sex attraction. Anybody can change." Richard Cohen, at the year 2000 PFOX convention, 2000-MAY-19. 3

If you are going to take a quote you should at least reference it.

The fact that was sponsored by the FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL gives no validity to the claim.

Shall we talk about him getting expelled from the American counseling association?

You have to do better then quoting a Christian Psychotherapist talking about genetics and biology.

So youre a hermit?
And the world is becoming a place with fewer families? Thats just wrong.:mad: What ever happened to the family centred life? Ass holes

Look. No need to get nasty. The fact is, not all women get broody. Not all people like babies. So they're cute, so they're a lovely, innocent new life, and a responsibility for life that you will treasure. Not everyone sees it that way, though. What's more, the world may be getting fewer children, but it's heavily overpopulated to start with. And really, if you hated children, would you be willing to have one or more of them 'out of a sense of duty'? That's not fair on the parent OR the child, who could well grow up with an unhappy, indifferent and unloving parent. And what good will THAT do? A lot of people LOVE children, but I don't. That's just the way I am. And by 'not a people person' I wasn't suggesting I cut myself off from everyone in the world, I'm just not a socialite and am rather introverted. Part of the reason for this is that, on the whole, a lot of people I have met have been rather harsh and judgemental, which kind of makes me a bit wary around them. Which brings me to your comment.
Please, stop being so downright nasty. I never said that children were to be slaughtered, or that they were inhuman. I said that I don't like children. Others do. Let THEM have children, that they may grow up in a good environment.

But you didnt bother to read my location...:headbang:

Well from your name, "Okielahoma" and the "boomer sooner", I was wondering. It's good to know that I'm not living anywhere near you though, thanks for that relief.

So youre a hermit?
And the world is becoming a place with fewer families? Thats just wrong.:mad: What ever happened to the family centred life? Ass holes

I find the idea of a large family to be "wrong," as you say

The idea of "wrong" is completely subjective

I only want 1 kid, if any

I just don't feel the need to add to the way-overgrown population

I would like to adopt lots of kids, but I don't want to have many

And anyway, childbirth is an agonizing process, and I'm not to eager to go through it

So youre a hermit?
And the world is becoming a place with fewer families? Thats just wrong.:mad: What ever happened to the family centred life? Ass holes

There was never a "family centered life".

Well, Okielahoma, the ball is in your court. Instead of picking up on a single, anecdotal part of my post and labelling me as scum for not liking children, perhaps you would like to try sending back a decent argument, one that responds to my points properly instead of resorting to the ad hominen (attacking/insulting the person) fallacy. I'm not lording it over you or puttng myself forward as superior, indeed my arguments aren't exactly sophisticated. But I do prefer debate to name-calling.

Yes about 50 years ago the majority of lives were "family centred." There are way more single mothers now. Family is less important now than then.

BTW...
Moron: A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education.

Im 14:D :p

Well from your name, "Okielahoma" and the "boomer sooner", I was wondering. It's good to know that I'm not living anywhere near you though, thanks for that relief.

Damn, everyone loves me:p

Yes about 50 years ago the majority of lives were "family centred." There are way more single mothers now. Family is less important now than then.

BTW...
Moron: A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education.

Im 14:D :p

Just to nit-pick, that's just the meaning of the term within the confines of psychology. In general usage, the term refers to anyone and means the same as 'idiot'. In Welsh, it means 'carrots'.

Yes about 50 years ago the majority of lives were "family centred." There are way more single mothers now. Family is less important now than then.

BTW...
Moron: A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education.

Im 14:D :p

Single mothers hardly choose to be single mothers, and in any case I think you'll find the statistics are not as extreme as you might think: poverty and single-motherhood have been common for a long time. Besides, wouldn't more single mothers be opposing your concept that people these days don't want families as much? They went off and had families, as opposed to not doing so, which is what you seem to be arguing was done more often in the apparently less family-centered past.

Just to nit-pick, that's just the meaning of the term within the confines of psychology. In general usage, the term refers to anyone and means the same as 'idiot'. In Welsh, it means 'carrots'.

Seconded

You speak Welsh?

Or did you just look it up? :P

It ain't a goddamn choice. It's biological.

Quote for emphasis and topic-ending point.

You ask 'why are you attracted to the same sex?' but homosexual people, replacing your arguments with their own, could just as easily ask 'Why are you attracted to the opposite sex?'

So come on, why do you find the other sex attractive?

Becuse thats natural to me my chrisitan belief. Like it or not. Also straight people outnumber gay and bi so that quesiton is less likely the other way.

I'm bisexual, So my question would be 'Why not be attracted to both?'

See above



So their you have it. Your argument is based solely on your own experiences, but not everyone fits into your own views of love and happiness. .

Yes so until i have an experience wiht a gay person "i know none" my opinion shall not change. I shall keep my beliefs and you shall keep yours and i shall try to respect yours and visa versa. BTW No hard feelings im sure ure a great person in person.:fluffle:(No im not turning BI:p )

Let's hope it's topic ending...

There isn't much more to say about the matter

Becuse thats natural to me my chrisitan belief.

There are lots of gay and bisexual Christians.

Geeze, I have never seen so many stupid/ignorant/uninformed threads on one night.

I'd like to apologise to everyone for this thread. It's because of a conversation between me and Okie that went something like this:

Okie: I hate gays and liberals
Me: I'm both. Well, techically, I'm bi, but still.
Okie: ZOMG?! WHY?!
Me: Men are mostly low-maintenence. And Davey Havok rocks my world.
Okie: ZOMG!
Me *leaves for awhile*
Okie: I wanna make fun of the gay guy!
Me: *comes back, sees post* Fuck you, faggot.
Okie: ZOMG!
Bystanders: WTF?!
Me: I'm bi, and he's in denial.
Okie: LOLMG! He's such a gay! Blah blah blah!
Me: Oh, go fuck yourself. *has dinner*
Okie: *makes this dumb thread*

Sorry guys!

Yes about 50 years ago the majority of lives were "family centred." There are way more single mothers now. Family is less important now than then.


To get back on topic, the past was not all that different tothe present day - and just as there may have been as many or even more single mothers (due to less effective contraception, poorer healthcare, or as the result of war) there were also just as many homosexuals. Looking through rose-tints at the past isn't great. The difference is, of course, that 50 or 100 years ago the world was a far more religious place, and being openly gay was to invite strong persecution or even execution if you refused to change. Gay people received less support from their families because to have a homosexual child was to invite ostracisement (is that a word?) by the community. Today, with more progressive views towards homosexuality becoming more commonplace in the west, gayness has become a more open affair.

Anyway, let's close this thread! No-one beliefs are changing.

Don't worry, Okie. I won't make you turn bi. I don't even live in the same country as you, if your name's any indication.

Goodnight, everyone!

Becuse thats natural to me my chrisitan belief.

Christianity does not ban homosexuality, or at least, it doesn't ban it if you go exactly as it says.
And of course ignoring the OT completely like Christianity usually does.

Its not "being gay." Its simply "is gay".

I guess so. You could still be killed where i live :p

Nope, I don't buy it. Gotta be a puppet troll. No way am I buying this level of nonsense. He's funnin' y'all. At least Jesussaves knew how to spell 'parrot.'

There are lots of gay and bisexual Christians.

Indeed

My church, Scottsdale Congregational United Church of Christ, was the driving force behind CrossWalk America (http://www.crosswalkamerica.org) and is host to a large number of gay people and a male-female transgender

Im 14:D :p

since youre 14 im going to answer your question seriously and give you some things to think about.

so, why be gay?

WHY?

you already know the downsides. so why would anyone be gay?

are they stupid? are they so into being disagreeable that they will do something they wouldnt ever want to do just to get a reaction? are they miserable perverts doing anything they can think of for a thrill?

think about it. would someone deny their "natural" desire for the opposite sex their entire lives just to prove a point? even though they suffer for it virtually every day of their lives? even though someone might kill them for it? even though they ACHE for heterosexual sex just like you do?

that doesnt make any sense does it? what would it take for YOU to have sex with another boy? money wouldnt be enough. no one could put enough pressure on you to do it willingly. no fight with your parents over controlling your life would make it worth while.

maybe they are gay because they DONT choose it. its just who they are. maybe they are as uninterested in heterosexual sex as you are in homosexual sex. maybe its genetic; maybe its not. it doesnt matter; its still who they are.

its a pretty good answer isnt it? regardless of wanting a family, regardless of wanting social acceptance, its who they are. its be gay or pretend to be someone they arent.

and before you continue your obsession with the disgusting nature of homosexual sex consider one thing. there is NOTHING that gay people do that straight people dont do. there is NOTHING that gay people do that your parents havent done. gay people just do it with members of the same sex. they are the same acts no matter the gender of the partners.

the last thing to consider is this: even if you dont understand homosexuality do you really want people to pretend to be straight? would YOU want to marry a woman who was only pretending? who you could never please in bed because you are a man? do you want your sister to marry a man who wished he was with a man instead of her? would you want to find out years from now that your best friend was gay and you never knew?

It's people like this guy that really get me angry. Like a magnet to my fist, really. I know violence isn't the answer, and all that crap, and I'm no better than he is, but I sure feel a lot better after giving them a beatdown.

As a lesbian AND a geneticist I feel I need to post here.
I'm glad the majority of people here know the basics of inheritance even if some don't and I would like to post a link to a study done.
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f97/projects97/Newman.html

I would also like to say that while not everyone experiences things this way I personally have never experienced any attraction to a male. It just never happened. I am ABSOLUTELY certain this was never a conscious choice of mine and I sincerely doubt this was due to environmental factors.

I hope that at 14 your mind is not 100% closed and you might growup with a bit more tolerance to your fellow humans.

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

You don't need us to provide you answers, hon - what you need is to get out of whatever backwater you're currently floating in and go see the world.

There are lots of gay and bisexual Christians.

The bible says to keep marriage between man and woman...
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."
-1 Corinthians 6:9-10

CTOAN- I am NOT a puppet.

You don't need us to provide you answers, hon - what you need is to get out of whatever backwater you're currently floating in and go see the world.

I love being called 'hon:p

CTOAN- I am NOT a puppet.

I was giving you the benifit of the doubt...

The bible says to keep marriage between man and woman...
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."
-1 Corinthians 6:9-10

The translation of those verses is disputed. And you can be gay without actually engaging in gay sex.

The bible says to keep marriage between man and woman...
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."
-1 Corinthians 6:9-10

CTOAN- I am NOT a puppet.

So no sex before marriage, no icons/religious imagery, no wanting stuff, no alcohol, no heterosexual anal sex, no one who deeply dislikes anything. You planning to follow all of these? It seems like you're a reviler already.

Edit: Oh yeah, and that passage actually encourages gay marriage. Without it, they're fornicating, and they've got two sins on the list.

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...
Why be black? I mean, you're gonna be discriminated against and stereotyped all over the place, you'll have trouble getting the high-paying jobs, and if you do get rich, the police'll probably shoot you during a routine traffic stop for having a Lexus, since you MUST have dealt drugs to get it. Seriously, can any black people here give me one good reason why they chose to be black? It just seems silly. White is a muuuuuch better color to pick.

(And if anybody calls me racist I will promptly club myself over the head because of such a lack of a sense of irony)

I was giving you the benifit of the doubt...

Ive been over this
Zychibastan>New-Lexington>Saxe Gotha>Lexington SC>Okielahoma

The translation of those verses is disputed. And you can be gay without actually engaging in gay sex.
(If you belief) God knows in your heart if you are gay or not. Oh or course, youve gotta have an excuse for the answer i give.

I'd like to apologise to everyone for this thread. It's because of a conversation between me and Okie that went something like this:

Okie: I hate gays and liberals
Me: I'm both. Well, techically, I'm bi, but still.
Okie: ZOMG?! WHY?!
Me: Men are mostly low-maintenence. And Davey Havok rocks my world.
Okie: ZOMG!
Me *leaves for awhile*
Okie: I wanna make fun of the gay guy!
Me: *comes back, sees post* Fuck you, faggot.
Okie: ZOMG!
Bystanders: WTF?!
Me: I'm bi, and he's in denial.
Okie: LOLMG! He's such a gay! Blah blah blah!
Me: Oh, go fuck yourself. *has dinner*
Okie: *makes this dumb thread*

Sorry guys!

It's not easy - you see what you have wrought, but I forgive you. This time. :p

So no sex before marriage, no icons/religious imagery, no wanting stuff, no alcohol, no heterosexual anal sex, no one who deeply dislikes anything. You planning to follow all of these? It seems like you're a reviler already.

Edit: Oh yeah, and that passage actually encourages gay marriage. Without it, they're fornicating, and they've got two sins on the list.

A few of those from that passage would be a good thing to follow.

The bible says to keep marriage between man and woman...
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."
-1 Corinthians 6:9-10

CTOAN- I am NOT a puppet.

Fornicators: What's this entail? Anyone who enjoys the feeling of sex?

Idolaters: What's this entail? Anyone who worships the virgin Mary or the saints?

Adulterers: No comment.

Homosexuals: Why? It doesn't give a reason. It just says so, and leaves it.

Sodomites: Rapists, essentially. I figured this was a problem with god, as it should be.

Thieves: Metaphorical thieves? Stealing land? All of America's going to hell?

Covetous: Wanting something makes you go to hell?

Drunkards: Jesus made wine - wine gets you drunk. Jesus sent people to hell?

Revilers: Not gonna pretend I know what this is.

Extortioners: Like, don't be gay or we'll send you to hell? That's extortion, I think.

Corinthians: That's a funny way to spell Jesus' name. Frankly, if Jesus didn't say it, you probably shouldn't care, religion-wise in the context of Christianity.

The bible says to keep marriage between man and woman...
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."
-1 Corinthians 6:9-10

CTOAN- I am NOT a puppet.

Well, I WAS going to bed, but...

Look, whatever the Bible says, it can't prevent genetics. You're speaking to an audience of people who are pretty sure that homosexuality is not a choice. Therefore, regardless of their religion, they will not be able to stop themselves from being homosexual, because it's just what they are, and they know no different. They can suppress their homosexual urges and be celibate, or they can marry a member of the opposite sex and try to live in a heterosexual relationship, but that won't change the fact that they are gay.

Ive been over this
Zychibastan>New-Lexington>Saxe Gotha>Lexington SC>Okielahoma

The translation of those verses is disputed. And you can be gay without actually engaging in gay sex.
(If you belief) God knows in your heart if you are gay or not. Oh or course, youve gotta have an excuse for the answer i give.

You're New Lexington? That explains everything!

As a lesbian AND a geneticist I feel I need to post here.

Female, homosexual, AND smart? I didn't know such a thing was possible! ;) I'm just kiddin'.

The bible says to keep marriage between man and woman...
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."
-1 Corinthians 6:9-10

CTOAN- I am NOT a puppet.
Where, exactly, does it say "Fags can't marry"?
Also, aren't you technically reviling?

So no sex before marriage, no icons/religious imagery, no wanting stuff, no alcohol, no heterosexual anal sex, no one who deeply dislikes anything. You planning to follow all of these? It seems like you're a reviler already.

Edit: Oh yeah, and that passage actually encourages gay marriage. Without it, they're fornicating, and they've got two sins on the list.
Yes no sex before marriage, no icons. People HAVE DONE IT FOR FRIKIN 2000 YEARS AND THE WORLD HASNT COME TO AN END YOU IDIOT. There is a difference in a drunkard and having a one or two bears. You can have sex with you husband/wife.

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...




Because you are born predisposed to be either gay or lesbian or hetrosexual.
Some choose to be bisexual or asexual but few if any choose to be homosexual.

You're New Lexington? That explains everything!
:p

You're New Lexington? That explains everything!

*giggles yes
I LOVE YOU AB AGAIN!!!

BTW Sorry for my snapping in the above post. Totally uncalled for. Im sorry if i yelled at you but im grumpy and ned to sleep.

(If you belief) God knows in your heart if you are gay or not.

I don't believe. But that's beside the point; God might know, but why should He care unless an actual sin is committed?

Oh or course, youve gotta have an excuse for the answer i give.

It's called knowing what you're talking about.

People HAVE DONE IT FOR FRIKIN 2000 YEARS AND THE WORLD HASNT COME TO AN END YOU IDIOT.
Ahhhhhh, the delicious irony.... :p

:p
I dont like that smile...
it spells trouble...

People HAVE DONE IT FOR FRIKIN 2000 YEARS AND THE WORLD HASNT COME TO AN END YOU IDIOT.

You really believe people didn't have premarital sex for two thousand years?

:p

Ive been over this
Zychibastan>New-Lexington>Saxe Gotha>Lexington SC>Okielahoma

The translation of those verses is disputed. And you can be gay without actually engaging in gay sex.
(If you belief) God knows in your heart if you are gay or not. Oh or course, youve gotta have an excuse for the answer i give.

You make no sense. God created gay people. God creates your heart, your mind, your soul. He creates gay people. Get over it.

Yes no sex before marriage, no icons. People HAVE DONE IT FOR FRIKIN 2000 YEARS AND THE WORLD HASNT COME TO AN END YOU IDIOT. There is a difference in a drunkard and having a one or two bears. You can have sex with you husband/wife.

You forget the no hating anyone, no wanting anything you don't have, and never having anal sex with your wife. And you don't have crosses, etc?

And no, people have been breaking the rules for 2,000 years. Icons have been around since the dawn of Catholicism, and sex before marriage has been pretty constant throughout history, just not talked about as much.

Gay is a-ok. Straight is great. Bi makes time fly. It's all good. What you do in your private life is none of my business and even if it was, I wouldn't judge you for it.

Ahhhhhh, the delicious irony.... :p

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yes no sex before marriage, no icons. People HAVE DONE IT FOR FRIKIN 2000 YEARS AND THE WORLD HASNT COME TO AN END YOU IDIOT. There is a difference in a drunkard and having a one or two bears. You can have sex with you husband/wife.

It's being pretty vague for a book that's supposed to keep people from going to hell. At the very least it would list an alcohol percentage and how much of it you would need before you went to hell.

Smells like bullshit to me.

There is a difference in a drunkard and having a one or two bears.

Parrots, anyone?

Bi makes time fly.

It sure does. :D

'cause, after all, time flies when your having fun...

You forget the no hating anyone, no wanting anything you don't have, and never having anal sex with your wife. And you don't have crosses, etc?

And no, people have been breaking the rules for 2,000 years. Icons have been around since the dawn of Catholicism, and sex before marriage has been pretty constant throughout history, just not talked about as much.

people haev also been keeping rules. a cross represents christ. im not catholic. coveting is differnet than wanting. coveting is an obession with something you must have. yes its a sin to hate

I love being called 'hon:p

Do you love being called 'hon' by a transsexual, Okielahoma?

I'll wait for your reply...

Because you are born predisposed to be either gay or lesbian or hetrosexual.
Some choose to be bisexual or asexual but few if any choose to be homosexual.

Actually, asexuality is a phenomenon that may not actually be due to choice. You're probably thinking of 'celibacy' - choosing not to have sex. Asexuality refers to having no natural sexual urges AND finding sex and sexual behviour either unattractive or a subject of complete indifference.

It sure does. :D

'cause, after all, time flies when your having fun...

Haha, good point.

. There is a difference in a drunkard and having a one or two bears.

Actually....no, no...to easy...

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

shits and giggles

Actually....no, no...to easy...

Well, given today's news, it's mildly accurate.

Being a drunkard does seem to lead to having one or two bears maul[ you.

Also, question: Why would got create people with both sexual organs if being gay is a sin? Also, there are those who have NO organs, and are born that way. What purpose does that serve? Where's the bible's verse for that?

I'd like to apologise to everyone for this thread. It's because of a conversation between me and Okie that went something like this:

Okie: I hate gays and liberals
Me: I'm both. Well, techically, I'm bi, but still.
Okie: ZOMG?! WHY?!
Me: Men are mostly low-maintenence. And Davey Havok rocks my world.
Okie: ZOMG!
Me *leaves for awhile*
Okie: I wanna make fun of the gay guy!
Me: *comes back, sees post* Fuck you, faggot.
Okie: ZOMG!
Bystanders: WTF?!
Me: I'm bi, and he's in denial.
Okie: LOLMG! He's such a gay! Blah blah blah!
Me: Oh, go fuck yourself. *has dinner*
Okie: *makes this dumb thread*

Sorry guys!

Never said the hate part. I said i have a major disagreement. I also said if you were gay/liberal i didnt mean to offend you.

The bible says to keep marriage between man and woman...
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."
-1 Corinthians 6:9-10

CTOAN- I am NOT a puppet.

If converted Jew writes a letter to the church in Corinth almost two millenia ago, why should anyone care what it said?

Moreoever, if you're not the one sinning by doing any of the above, why do you care about it?

Never said the hate part. I said i have a major disagreement. I also said if you were gay/liberal i didnt mean to offend you.

Semantics.

If converted Jew writes a letter to the church in Corinth almost two millenia ago, why should anyone care what it said?

Moreoever, if you're not the one sinning by doing any of the above, why do you care about it?

Yeah, the bible's just a jumbled collection of random shit the church wanted people to learn.

Yeah, the bible's just a jumbled collection of random shit the church wanted people to learn.

More than that, the NT wasn't written until over a century after Christ had died.

More than that, the NT wasn't written until over a century after Christ had died.

Yar. It's very much a load of horsecrap.

Yes no sex before marriage, no icons. People HAVE DONE IT FOR FRIKIN 2000 YEARS AND THE WORLD HASNT COME TO AN END YOU IDIOT. There is a difference in a drunkard and having a one or two bears. You can have sex with you husband/wife.


Would that be black or brown?

Yar. It's very much a load of horsecrap.

I didn't say that. I just pointed out that the actual statements of christ have only been reported through, at the very least, 3 or more levels of repetition, and that we had to read for the writer's bias.

Assuming Christ ever existed.

Either way, the modern Conservative-Christian movement practices bad Christianity. They are the Pharisees that Jesus condemned for their actions. They are serving unto Ceaser what belongs unto God. They are failing to deal with the plank in their own eyes first.

Would that be black or brown?

Panda. :p

I didn't say that. I just pointed out that the actual statements of christ have only been reported through, at the very least, 3 or more levels of repetition, and that we had to read for the writer's bias.

Assuming Christ ever existed.

Either way, the modern Conservative-Christian movement practices bad Christianity. They are the Pharisees that Jesus condemned for their actions. They are serving unto Ceaser what belongs unto God. They are failing to deal with the plank in their own eyes first.

Well, -I'm- saying it. All evidence points it to being nothing more than a tool to control people.

This isn't really a massive thing, but a lot of people have been referring to bisexuality as a choice, and it really isn't. Like heterosexuality, homosexuality, et cetera, bisexuality is genetically determined. I know, I myself, even as early as about four or five displayed both masculine and feminine aspects of my personality without conscious knowledge of my doing so, only in hindsight being able to understand my behavior. Statiscally, at least of the most recent statistics I've seen, 6% percent of men are openly homosexual to the 4% who are openly bisexual, while 6% or women are openly bisexual to the 4% who are openly lesbian. Just clarifying, no big deal, just saying.

Oh yeah, and whoever still thinks LGBT people are evil is a massive wanker. If we're so evil, why hasn't God smote us all?

This isn't really a massive thing, but a lot of people have been referring to bisexuality as a choice, and it really isn't. Like heterosexuality, homosexuality, et cetera, bisexuality is genetically determined. I know, I myself, even as early as about four or five displayed both masculine and feminine aspects of my personality without conscious knowledge of my doing so, only in hindsight being able to understand my behavior. Statiscally, at least of the most recent statistics I've seen, 6% percent of men are openly homosexual to the 4% who are openly bisexual, while 6% or women are openly bisexual to the 4% who are openly lesbian. Just clarifying, no big deal, just saying.

Oh yeah, and whoever still thinks LGBT people are evil is a massive wanker. If we're so evil, why hasn't God smote us all?

Because it's not evil and god made you that way.

Stupid trolls coming out of the woodwork lately. Forum bullshit graffiti on aisle 10, stat.

people haev also been keeping rules. a cross represents christ. im not catholic. coveting is differnet than wanting. coveting is an obession with something you must have. yes its a sin to hate

Still haven't responded to the anal sex one. No, if you were male and had power in Medieval times you had extramarital sex aplenty, and there have certainly been drunkards throughout the ages. A cross is an idol of Christ. You aren't supposed to idolize. People have been Catholic in the last 2,000 years, and only Protestant in the last 600 or so. So like coveting water or food? (that one was more for silliness' sake) The real issue here is that, sure hating and coveting might be sins, but this passage makes them sins of the same value as homosexuality, and as most people hate or covet at some point in their lives, it's kinda silly to claim that homosexuality is different.

This isn't really a massive thing, but a lot of people have been referring to bisexuality as a choice, and it really isn't. Like heterosexuality, homosexuality, et cetera, bisexuality is genetically determined. I know, I myself, even as early as about four or five displayed both masculine and feminine aspects of my personality without conscious knowledge of my doing so, only in hindsight being able to understand my behavior. Statiscally, at least of the most recent statistics I've seen, 6% percent of men are openly homosexual to the 4% who are openly bisexual, while 6% or women are openly bisexual to the 4% who are openly lesbian. Just clarifying, no big deal, just saying.

Oh yeah, and whoever still thinks LGBT people are evil is a massive wanker. If we're so evil, why hasn't God smote us all?

On the other hand, I have a friend who's bisexual, and claims to have started out heterosexual. The way I see it, for the majority it's completely biological, but there's definitely a percentage (and probably an at least somewhat larger percentage among bisexuals) for whom it is, if not a choice, than something one gains past one's biology.

On the other hand, I have a friend who's bisexual, and claims to have started out heterosexual. The way I see it, for the majority it's completely biological, but there's definitely a percentage (and probably an at least somewhat larger percentage among bisexuals) for whom it is, if not a choice, than something one gains past one's biology.

Either you're able to be turned on by someone of the same sex or you're not. It's really quite simple. If you're not able to, you're straight. If you're able, you're gay. If you're able to be aroused by both sexes, you're bi.

It's always biological.

Wonderful. A quote from the society of Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays. And this is more credible than scientific studies why?

Because it backs up what Okielahoma had already decided was true before he asked.

Either you're able to be turned on by someone of the same sex or you're not. It's really quite simple. If you're not able to, you're straight. If you're able, you're gay. If you're able to be aroused by both sexes, you're bi.

It's always biological.Since bisexuality has been widely practiced in pre-Christian cultures, I'm not positive it's that cut & dry. I'm positive, however, that it can be, because like you I'm bisexual, and it certainly isn't something I just decided to be one morning, for lack of better things to do.

Hell, where I live, gays are almost worse bi-bashers than straight people. No fun at all. Not to mention all the distrust it causes in relationships because you never fall for another bi & everyone else half expects to come home & find you in bed with someone of a different sex.

Anyway, what I really wanted to say is that Abrahamic scripture is amoral & evil. Why? Because it's all about hurting people for no discernable reason. All three major branches teaches the same thing: "Go forth & be complete bastards". It's just vile bullshit for the sake of it.

And the nuclear family? It's a myth at best. People have pretty much always formed the sort of families that appealed to them. It's hardly a surprise they still do.

whered u get that from?! if its biological then why rnt ur parents gay? did it skip a few generations or something?o wait that wouldnt work because then ur familys line would come to a grinding halt with them well dang guess its not biological then

Don't you just love it when people with absolutely no knowledge of biology talk as if they were experts? :rolleyes:

Okielahoma, do you follow the Old Testament dietary laws?

Either you're able to be turned on by someone of the same sex or you're not. It's really quite simple. If you're not able to, you're straight. If you're able, you're gay. If you're able to be aroused by both sexes, you're bi.

It's always biological.

Either you're able to be turned on by anal sex, or you're not. If you are, you're a sodomist. If you're not, you're a non-sodomist.

You see the issue here? While I agree that homosexuality is usually biologically determined, in some cases it probably comes from Pavlovian style training. Vaginal stimulation is vaginal stimulation, and if you're trained to associate it with a certain gender, you probably will, whatever your biology would otherwise make you associate it with. I'm not saying this is common, but it certainly can happen.

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

Because it would be nice to fall in love and share a home with someone at some point in my life. My biological family doesn't run my life. If they can't accept me for who I am and the fact that I happen to be attracted to/fall for/want to live with other women, then I don't need them and their negativity. Love is more important than bloodlines; it's their choice to be close-minded and it's my choice to be in a relationship with a woman I can love rather than a man that I have no desire to be with emotionally or sexually.

And gay people can have kids. It's this insane little thing called adoption. More straight people ought to try that route, instead of selfishly making more babies when there are already so many out there without loving homes and families. :headbang:

Also? Not all gay men have anal sex. Furthermore? Plenty of straight couples, however, do.

More recently, a researcher from the University of British Columbia (quoted in the May 5 2005 issue of The Georgia Straight) puts the number of heterosexuals who regularly practice anal sex at between 30% and 50%.(text quoted from this page (http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Anal_sex))

I didn't choose to be a lesbian. I just chose to accept the fact that I am and I allow myself to be happy in life despite other people's ridiculous, negative reactions to it.

Don't you just love it when people with absolutely no knowledge of biology talk as if they were experts? :rolleyes:

Almost as much as I love reading "why rnt ur parents" instead of "why aren't your parents" in a post.

Becuse thats natural to me my chrisitan belief. Like it or not. Also straight people outnumber gay and bi so that quesiton is less likely the other way.

See above


Yes so until i have an experience wiht a gay person "i know none" my opinion shall not change. I shall keep my beliefs and you shall keep yours and i shall try to respect yours and visa versa. BTW No hard feelings im sure ure a great person in person.:fluffle:(No im not turning BI:p )

I have yet to see you show any of the homosexual posters, or any of the rest of us whose viewpoints differ from yours any respect whatsoever. You're not gay? Good for you, me neither. You don't like that others are? Now why exactly should we care? Tough. Go out and gain a bit of life experience first, little man. You are welcome to your opinions, but you should probably be aware that opinions based on ignorance, predjudice, and bigotry tend not to earn you any respect.

Since bisexuality has been widely practiced in pre-Christian cultures, I'm not positive it's that cut & dry. I'm positive, however, that it can be, because like you I'm bisexual, and it certainly isn't something I just decided to be one morning, for lack of better things to do.

Hell, where I live, gays are almost worse bi-bashers than straight people. No fun at all. Not to mention all the distrust it causes in relationships because you never fall for another bi & everyone else half expects to come home & find you in bed with someone of a different sex.

Anyway, what I really wanted to say is that Abrahamic scripture is amoral & evil. Why? Because it's all about hurting people for no discernable reason. All three major branches teaches the same thing: "Go forth & be complete bastards". It's just vile bullshit for the sake of it.

And the nuclear family? It's a myth at best. People have pretty much always formed the sort of families that appealed to them. It's hardly a surprise they still do.

I'm not even bi, I'm just against idiocy with a passion.

Here's my opinion: Homosexuality violates common sense, evolution, and the world's 3 major religions, at least. It can't be right.

Some people may find that offensive, but hey, freedom of speech right?

And the part of the Bible where they stone homosexuals is the same part where they stone thieves, cheats, murderers, adulturers etc. It was a pretty common sentence for just about anything in those cultures and times. It's not relevant for modern day stuff.

Here's my opinion: Homosexuality violates common sense,

What "common sense"?

My "common sense" says that consensual sex between adults is perfectly acceptable.

evolution,

How can a natural trait violate evolution?

and the world's 3 major religions, at least.

So does premarital sex, and there's nothing wrong with that, either.

It can't be right.

Sure it can.

Here's my opinion: Homosexuality violates common sense,

Common Sense? Hm? Where is the common sense with with sterile people?


evolution,

I guess the animal kingdom missed the memo about that.

Here's my opinion: Homosexuality violates common sense, evolution, and the world's 3 major religions, at least. It can't be right.

Some people may find that offensive, but hey, freedom of speech right?

And the part of the Bible where they stone homosexuals is the same part where they stone thieves, cheats, murderers, adulturers etc. It was a pretty common sentence for just about anything in those cultures and times. It's not relevant for modern day stuff.

Common sense? What do you mean? How is it against common sense to be attracted to who you are attracted to? Seems to me it would be against common sense for a homosexual to have sex with members of the opposite sex.

Evolution? Obviously not, or as a trait it would not have survived.

The world's 3 major religions? Who cares? Unless you are a MEMBER of some religion, the rules of that religion are meaningless. Since a large percentage of the world's population ISN'T, your point has little validity, not to mention the number of people IN those three religions that interpret it differently and have no problem with homosexuality.

And I am SO glad you don't think that homosexuals should be stoned. :rolleyes:

I'm not even bi, I'm just against idiocy with a passion.Sorry, my bad. Consider it a compliment.

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...
*sighs*

Possibly you should think a little on the issue before going "I WAS TOLD IT WAS BAD".

Conservative Christians who read the Bible in a hateful manner will tell you it's against God's will and such.

More liberal people (and I mean 'European liberal' as in let people do what they like, rather than 'US liberal' which means left-wing) will tell you that it's simply a pre-programmed sexuality, that one cannot change.

And what the hell are you on about with "wiht a stick up your butt"?

A lot of gays and bisexuals aren't into anal sex, and the ones that are won't put "a stick up their butt" for any reason afterwards...

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

21st century......educated (well enough to post on NS).....American....making that statement. Are you really so backward you don't understand these things?

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

if i was a woman, i'd be lesbian.

it makes sense for girls to be les/bi cos women are just that damn hot :D :p

if i was a woman, i'd be lesbian.

it makes sense for girls to be les/bi cos women are just that damn hot :D :p

The man has been on the mountain, he has seen the truth!

if i was a woman, i'd be lesbian.

it makes sense for girls to be les/bi cos women are just that damn hot :D :p

I'm selfish... if you're bi, you can have both. And more is always better. :D

I'm selfish... if you're bi, you can have both. And more is always better. :D

My thoughts exactly, I can effectively double my options! :D

:fluffle:

My thoughts exactly, I can effectively double my options! :D

:fluffle:

Yes. And I get to fluffle you, and Bumboat, and Grainne Ni Malley...

:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

*contentsigh I'm a happy girl :D

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

I can't believe my pointless picture post was moved, but this post remained here. Do you even KNOW any gay people? I do, and they're just like everyone else. Here's a dictionary: http://www.m-w.com

My thoughts exactly, I can effectively double my options! :D

:fluffle:

In my case I'd get twice the rejections:(

The bible says to keep marriage between man and woman...
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."
-1 Corinthians 6:9-10

CTOAN- I am NOT a puppet.

Arsenokoites translates as "male temple prostitutes", not "homosexuals". Try again.

Here's my opinion: Homosexuality violates common sense, evolution, and the world's 3 major religions, at least. It can't be right.

Doesn't violate common sense.
A certain percentage of homosexuals in a population is evolutionarily beneficial.
Since when does Hinduism have a problem with homosexuality? Or do you not realize that there are religions outside of the Abrahamic ones?

Holy crap another gay thread? I thought we were over this tripe. Particularly when the OP was so blatantly trolling.

Holy crap another gay thread? I thought we were over this tripe. Particularly when the OP was so blatantly trolling.

It seems NS general fish, will bite on a hook baited with crap.

I guess so. You could still be killed where i live :p

why? :confused:

Yes. And I get to fluffle you, and Bumboat, and Grainne Ni Malley...

:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

*contentsigh I'm a happy girl :D

And I get to fluffle you, and TBD, and Grainne....
:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

My thoughts exactly, I can effectively double my options! :D

:fluffle:

Hi Beautiful!
You just attract everyone. Admit it. Both men and women love you.
Hey I think I may have Wytyg converting! Yay!
:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

And I get to fluffle you, and TBD, and Grainne....
:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

Don't you think the four of us have a moral obligation to the world (and NS) to meet up some time? :fluffle: :fluffle:

Don't you think the four of us have a moral obligation to the world (and NS) to meet up some time? :fluffle: :fluffle:

Yes! I think we owe it to the world. :D :fluffle:

Hi Beautiful!
You just attract everyone. Admit it. Both men and women love you.
Hey I think I may have Wytyg converting! Yay!
:fluffle:

*Blushes* No comment :p

How have you managed to conver wytyg?

:fluffle:

Don't you think the four of us have a moral obligation to the world (and NS) to meet up some time? :fluffle: :fluffle:

:fluffle:

Yes! I think we owe it to the world. :D :fluffle:

Sounds good to me. Of course, we'd have to report back here to let everyone know how it went... ;)

:fluffle:

*Blushes* No comment :p

How have you managed to conver wytyg?
Offered her the stuff listed in the homosexual union thread.
:fluffle:



:fluffle:



Sounds good to me. Of course, we'd have to report back here to let everyone know how it went... ;)

:fluffle:

Apparently she REALLY likes shopping at Target

Apparently she REALLY likes shopping at Target

... Does that have some meaning I don't get? :( :confused:

EDIT: Oh, just read the thread. Gotcha :p

:fluffle:

... Does that have some meaning I don't get? :( :confused:

Edit: Good I was doing badly at trying to explain it. :)

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex!

Are you a guy? Do you like boobies? Well, guess what...so do I. :D


I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!!

I don't want to scare you, here, but heterosexuals have anal sex too.


You cant have kids with your partner

Yes, that is one of the major perks of homosexual sex.


no family
It is a profound insult to imply that "family" requires biological offspring. Are you really going to claim that adoptive families aren't real families? Or that aunts, uncles, cousins, step-parents, step-children, and so on...none of these are families?

Either you're able to be turned on by someone of the same sex or you're not. It's really quite simple. If you're not able to, you're straight. If you're able, you're gay. If you're able to be aroused by both sexes, you're bi.

It's always biological.
This may just be nit-picking on my part, but there are a few things people should be careful about:

"Biological" does not necessarily mean "set at birth and totally unchangeable."

"Biological" also does not necessarily mean "genetic" or "inherited."

Additionally, if something is "non-biological," that doesn't necessarily mean it is pure choice.

If some quality about a person changes with time, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a choice. It also doesn't mean that the quality must be "non-biological." For example, I had a cold last week. I no longer have a cold. Having a cold was biological, but it also is a quality that changed with time. Just because I "biologically" had a cold last week does not mean that I must always have had a cold, or that I must have a cold for the rest of my life.

This may just be nit-picking on my part, but there are a few things people should be careful about:

"Biological" does not necessarily mean "set at birth and totally unchangeable."

"Biological" also does not necessarily mean "genetic" or "inherited."

Additionally, if something is "non-biological," that doesn't necessarily mean it is pure choice.

If some quality about a person changes with time, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a choice. It also doesn't mean that the quality must be "non-biological." For example, I had a cold last week. I no longer have a cold. Having a cold was biological, but it also is a quality that changed with time. Just because I "biologically" had a cold last week does not mean that I must always have had a cold, or that I must have a cold for the rest of my life.

It's genetic, then. It's essentially given to you at birth that you will be attracted to someone, and then reinforced or taken away slightly as you go through life.

I heard something about them trying to find a 'cure' for it a while ago. Like the money going towards this couldn't be better spent on, I dunno, cancer cures. Something that's actually a disease.

It's genetic, then.

Current research indicates that human sexuality is not determined exclusively by genetics. If it were, all sets of identical twins would have the same sexual orientation...but research has found that about 30-45% of identical twins have different sexual orientations. These are individuals who have identical DNA, remember, so if sexuality were set by our genes then you would not see one gay twin and one straight twin out of a monozygotic pair.


It's essentially given to you at birth that you will be attracted to someone, and then reinforced or taken away slightly as you go through life.

I don't think we currently have enough evidence to conclude that, particularly since there are extremely significant neurological changes and developments taking place throughout childhood. We don't yet know what environmental impacts may be significant (if any) for the formation of adult sexuality.


I heard something about them trying to find a 'cure' for it a while ago. Like the money going towards this couldn't be better spent on, I dunno, cancer cures. Something that's actually a disease.
Trying to "cure" homosexuality is like trying to "cure" people of prefering jazz to rock music. I'm sure you could find a way to make people stop buying jazz CDs, just like you could find a way to make them stop seeking out gay relationships, but why the fuck would you want to? Who cares?

whered u get that from?! if its biological then why rnt ur parents gay? did it skip a few generations or something?o wait that wouldnt work because then ur familys line would come to a grinding halt with them well dang guess its not biological then

Genetics don't work that way. If you follow that line of thought you could say 'If your mothers eyes are blue and your fathers eyes are brown then why don't you have one of each?'

You might want to be gay/lesbian because...

you love someone. I guess you expect everyone to have one of those inpersonal relationships where they're in it just because they had kids, and they're miserable the rest of their lives.

And fuck blood, it doesn't mean anything. Real parents love a kid, they can adopt or get a sperm popsicle.

I guess you expect everyone to have one of those inpersonal relationships where they're in it just because they had kids, and they're miserable the rest of their lives.

Yeah, it's kind of fucked up when you hear traditionalists talking about how "real relationships" are supposed to work. Aparently men and women only get together because we need each other to breed...we don't actually LIKE each other, or (god forbid) love each other, we just are compelled to make babies and put up with one another for that purpose.

It ain't a goddamn choice. It's biological.

Some people choose to be gay, although admittedly, they're a very tiny minority. But whether homosexuality is biological or a choice is irrelevant. I don't care who people go to bed with, provided it's not an animal, child, or close relative, and provided all parties in bed consent to it.

1984 is getting so much closer to the truth than people realize. One day, the children of the United States will look back at US history and say, "Oh man, that's fucked up that blacks were slaves, that women and blacks couldn't vote for so long, and that people couldn't get married."

1984 is getting so much closer to the truth than people realize. One day, the children of the United States will look back at US history and say, "Oh man, that's fucked up that blacks were slaves, that women and blacks couldn't vote for so long, and that people couldn't get married."

The hell are you talking about, we're saying that -now-.

Then why can't they get married? I'll tell you, because the executive branch is the worst idea I have ever heard of.

It ain't a goddamn choice. It's biological.

I swing both ways, seems like a choice to me.

Why should it matter if it's biological or a choice? If the people in question like it, who cares?

I swing both ways, seems like a choice to me.

Why should it matter if it's biological or a choice? If the people in question like it, who cares?

*gives DK a cookie*

Then why can't they get married? I'll tell you, because the executive branch is the worst idea I have ever heard of.

Well technically we vote in most of the Executive branch, and then they choose most of the members of the other branches.

But practically, we have almost no say in who's in the Executive branch and it's very corrupt and partisan in who they choose to be in the other branches.

Gee. If I didn't know better, I'd say that the OP was *trolling*...

Ah. You've gotta love the 'Gayz r Bad!' arguements. All talk, no actual proof. You've gotta do more than tout the so-called expert opinion of a man that thinks that he can cure homosexuality, and a handful of verses from both the Old and New Testaments, which... the former? Also outlaws hamburgers, polyester, and wearing religious paraphanalia (like, say, crucifixes?). The latter was written some century or more after the death of Jesus.

For the record: I have nothing against Christianity. I say believe what you want to believe... I'm not going to stop you or try to change you.

...And we come to the actual crux of the matter: willful ignorance. This is directed at the OP as a little bit of wise parental advice.

Let he who is without sin be the first to cast stones. I highly doubt that any of you are 'perfect', so, what right have you to condemn others for something that may or may not be a personal choice? When it comes down to it, why does it even matter if anyone is Gay, Straight, Bi, Transsexual, ect? We're all still *human*. We all have flaws. There isn't a sole individual walking this planet without some sort of issue. Just because someone is different from you, that makes grounds for you to condemn them?

Until you walk a mile in another's shoes, you have no right to cast a stone. Remember that.

Okielahoma, do you follow the Old Testament dietary laws?

No
It says in the new testament somewhere that you can eat "unclean meat" anyway. And that rule applies to jews only.

No
It says in the new testament somewhere that you can eat "unclean meat" anyway. And that rule applies to jews only.

Nowhere in the NT is the eating of unclean meat allowed. Also, Jesus stated that the Old Covenant was still in effect.

I swing both ways, seems like a choice to me.

Amazingly enough, there's something called bisexuality, in which someone is sexually attracted to both sexes. You should know this, considering you've referred to yourself as bisexual before. If you're bisexual, then you can choose which sex you would rather have sex with at any given time.

This thread phails at teh internets, and at life.

No
It says in the new testament somewhere that you can eat "unclean meat" anyway. And that rule applies to jews only.

You don’t know?

I mean ignorance is not even an excuse for disobeying a law… you think gods going to give you a break when you break his rules just cause you don’t spend the time to look them up?

You don’t know?

I mean ignorance is not even an excuse for disobeying a law… you think gods going to give you a break when you break his rules just cause you don’t spend the time to look them up?

Technically, Jesus himself criticized those laws.

Technically, Jesus himself criticized those laws.

Like when he stated that all of them still applied?

Technically, Jesus himself criticized those laws.

Yeah just the way it was stated “its in there some where …”

I mean you are supposed to live your life by these rules … and people often know so little about it

Amazingly enough, there's something called bisexuality, in which someone is sexually attracted to both sexes. You should know this, considering you've referred to yourself as bisexual before. If you're bisexual, then you can choose which sex you would rather have sex with at any given time.

That's what I was saying, with fewer words... :rolleyes:

I swing both ways, seems like a choice to me.

Why should it matter if it's biological or a choice? If the people in question like it, who cares?

In a "good" world, you are correct. It shouldn't matter as long as nobody is being hurt.

However, there are legions of people that would love proof that it's simply a choice and would love to end this "deviant" behavior.

But those people will probably always be around. We just need good legislation that basically tells people to mind your own business.

Amazingly enough, there's something called bisexuality, in which someone is sexually attracted to both sexes. You should know this, considering you've referred to yourself as bisexual before. If you're bisexual, then you can choose which sex you would rather have sex with at any given time.

...which still doesn't mean that you choose who you are attracted to or what sex they happen to be. A bisexual person does not choose to be bisexual - they simply are. A homosexual or heterosexual person does not choose to be pretty much exclusively attracted to one sex or the other - they simply are.

Choosing your partner(s) is not the same thing as choosing your sexuality.

...which still doesn't mean that you choose who you are attracted to or what sex they happen to be. A bisexual person does not choose to be bisexual - they simply are. A homosexual or heterosexual person does not choose to be pretty much exclusively attracted to one sex or the other - they simply are.

Choosing your partner(s) is not the same thing as choosing your sexuality.

I know. I was illustrating the difference to DK.

Edit: And apparently failing miserably. Ah well, at least you can explain it coherently.

We just need good legislation that basically tells people to mind your own business.

Excellent idea... know we just need a majority of the politicians/people to approve of that but I don't see that coming in the forseeable future.

Current research indicates that human sexuality is not determined exclusively by genetics. If it were, all sets of identical twins would have the same sexual orientation...but research has found that about 30-45% of identical twins have different sexual orientations. These are individuals who have identical DNA, remember, so if sexuality were set by our genes then you would not see one gay twin and one straight twin out of a monozygotic pair.

Well, not exactly identical DNA. Epigenetic changes to the DNA are very often different - and may be one of the aspects of biology that can affect sexuality.

From what I've seen, I'd say sexuality, like any complex trait, is going to be affected by a whole host of factors - and we have most likely just begun to scratch the surface. Studies have suggested genetics, hormones in utero, birth order, erc.

What we haven't seen, however, is that human beings regularly (or even at all) sit down and decide what their sexuality will be. None of us sat down at puberty and thought, "Do I want to be attracted to men, women, both, or neither?" and actually controlled that response. We just started being attracted to some subset of humanity, and drew our categorization from there.
(That last part wasn't directed at you Bottle, I know you'd never claim the "choice" idea).


I know. I was illustrating the difference to DK.

Edit: And apparently failing miserably. Ah well, at least you can explain it coherently.

I thought that might be what you were going for, but it wasn't really clear to me. Good we got it cleared up. =)

Arsenokoites translates as "male temple prostitutes", not "homosexuals". Try again.

Well, to be fair, from what I've read, no one really knows *what* it translates as. As far as they can tell, Paul made the word up. It has no other contemporary uses and translations have generally just been guessing at what it means. It has been translated as referring to male temple prostitutes, to male child prostitutes, to "sexual deviants" of various types, to homosexuals, etc.

It ain't a goddamn choice. It's biological.

As a biologist, I don't think it is genetic or whatever you're implying. I think it is 'nutrute over nature' in this case. Not that the cause has been identified.

As a biologist, I don't think it is genetic or whatever you're implying. I think it is 'nutrute over nature' in this case. Not that the cause has been identified.

As a biologist, I would say that anyone who has come to this conclusion hasn't looked at the relevant literature or known many homosexuals.

Well, to be fair, from what I've read, no one really knows *what* it translates as. As far as they can tell, Paul made the word up. It has no other contemporary uses and translations have generally just been guessing at what it means. It has been translated as referring to male temple prostitutes, to male child prostitutes, to "sexual deviants" of various types, to homosexuals, etc.

Yeah, no one does know what it translates as. The closest one can get is to translate the root words and look at it in context. Whatever it was, it wasn't homosexuals.

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

It's biological. You don't choose to be homosexual, it's a genetic abnormality.

It's biological. You don't choose to be homosexual, it's a genetic abnormality.

This is really no better than those who say it's a choice and that genetics cannot play a part. There is no evidence that points to sexuality being purely genetically determined, nor is there any evidence that there is anything abnormal about the genes that might affect it.

This is really no better than those who say it's a choice and that genetics cannot play a part. There is no evidence that points to sexuality being purely genetically determined, nor is there any evidence that there is anything abnormal about the genes that might affect it.

I sincerely apologise for my evidence-less opinion. I do actually have a newspaper report about ground-breaking new evidence in the scientific field, but I don't have time to fish it out. I just wanted to throw in my two cents.

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

I assumed the intake of another mans semen would be beneficial to my diet. For me it is a dietary choice.

I assumed the intake of another mans semen would be beneficial to my diet. For me it is a dietary choice.

It is low in calories.

It is low in calories.
Taste great less filling.

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

Grow the fuck up, it's not a choice..

As a biologist, I don't think it is genetic or whatever you're implying. I think it is 'nutrute over nature' in this case. Not that the cause has been identified.

As a biologist, I would say that anyone who has come to this conclusion hasn't looked at the relevant literature or known many homosexuals.

As a nobel prize laureate in hyperthermo-linear-nanomolecular-nuclear-science I laugh at both of your stupid theories.

Oh...And I'm a ninja-assassin on weekends.

Grow the fuck up, it's not a choice..

This isn't really directed at Ruffy, but why would it matter if it was a choice or not?

I assumed the intake of another mans semen would be beneficial to my diet. For me it is a dietary choice.

You should cut down on your sodium intake from other sources, however. =)

As a nobel prize laureate in hyperthermo-linear-nanomolecular-nuclear-science I laugh at both of your stupid theories.

Oh...And I'm a ninja-assassin on weekends.

Dem actually is a biologist.

Dem actually is a biologist.

:D

Bioengineer, to be precise, but I tend to focus more on the bio part than the engineering part (engineering, in my mind, is a tool to get to something else), so I am, for all intents and purposes, a biologist.

it's not a choice, people just are.

it's not a choice, people just are.

Simple, yet eloquent.

Dem actually is a biologist.


Of course he is. Though, as a neurosurgeon, I'm a bit suspicious.

oh for feks sake not another one of these threads

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

To the OP - You need to get out more.

Of course he is. Though, as a neurosurgeon, I'm a bit suspicious.

She. Of course she is.

Well, not exactly identical DNA. Epigenetic changes to the DNA are very often different - and may be one of the aspects of biology that can affect sexuality.

Yes, epigenetic changes to DNA are significant, and yes, they could theoretically be involved in sexuality. However, I think it is completely unrealistic to suggest that said changes explain the differences in sexual orientation between pairs of identical twins. Most of the changes we're talking about (statistically speaking) aren't going to have the least thing to do with sexual orienation, after all.


From what I've seen, I'd say sexuality, like any complex trait, is going to be affected by a whole host of factors - and we have most likely just begun to scratch the surface. Studies have suggested genetics, hormones in utero, birth order, erc.

Yeah, that's why I said sexuality is not "exclusively" determined by genetics. Our genes obviously play a huge part in shaping who we will be...but they're not the be-all and end-all.

I'm also constantly amazed by the way that societal and psychological effectors are overlooked or downplayed. Sexuality and sexual behavior are defined for us by our social/cultural context, after all.


What we haven't seen, however, is that human beings regularly (or even at all) sit down and decide what their sexuality will be. None of us sat down at puberty and thought, "Do I want to be attracted to men, women, both, or neither?" and actually controlled that response. We just started being attracted to some subset of humanity, and drew our categorization from there.
(That last part wasn't directed at you Bottle, I know you'd never claim the "choice" idea).

Indeed.

It is also REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT for people to grasp that even if (IF) there were no innate biological foundation to human sexuality, that STILL would not necessarily mean that sexuality is "chosen."

(And that last part wasn't directed at you, Demi, since I know you get this. ;))

Interplay of genetics, epigenetic factors, environment, and experience, like any other behavioural individual difference. Non-genetic factors don't mean 'it's a conscious choice', either; it might imply you could alter someone else's sexuality by intervention, but that's another, ethically very dodgy, debate.

Yes, epigenetic changes to DNA are significant, and yes, they could theoretically be involved in sexuality. However, I think it is completely unrealistic to suggest that said changes explain the differences in sexual orientation between pairs of identical twins. Most of the changes we're talking about (statistically speaking) aren't going to have the least thing to do with sexual orienation, after all.

Hence the reason I wasn't saying they would completely explain it. I think they could play a role, especially if one twin was exposed to a different hormone gradient in the womb - which would be very possible based on placement. For that matter, things like neuronal development could also be affected by such a gradient, even outside of epigenetic changes.

I'm also constantly amazed by the way that societal and psychological effectors are overlooked or downplayed. Sexuality and sexual behavior are defined for us by our social/cultural context, after all.

I think they get dowplayed because those looking for some sort of "cure" will immediately jump on it and say, "Oh! So if we raised our kids differently, we wouldn't have any of teh gays!" It's an all or none thing for way too many people - it either has to be purely determined at birth, or purely determined after birth. I really don't think either case is the reality.

I tend to compare it to what most people would consider a much less complex trait - skin color. Skin color is partially controlled by at least five genes - that we know of. Epigenetic factors can change it as well. On top of that, we have to take into account exposure to sunlight, diet, hormone balance, and any number of other factors. Now, if something (which exists along a spectrum, much like sexuality) like skin color is affected by so many factors, why would we expect sexuality to boil down to one simple factor?

Hence the reason I wasn't saying they would completely explain it. I think they could play a role, especially if one twin was exposed to a different hormone gradient in the womb - which would be very possible based on placement. For that matter, things like neuronal development could also be affected by such a gradient, even outside of epigenetic changes.

I think they get dowplayed because those looking for some sort of "cure" will immediately jump on it and say, "Oh! So if we raised our kids differently, we wouldn't have any of teh gays!" It's an all or none thing for way too many people - it either has to be purely determined at birth, or purely determined after birth. I really don't think either case is the reality.

I tend to compare it to what most people would consider a much less complex trait - skin color. Skin color is partially controlled by at least five genes - that we know of. Epigenetic factors can change it as well. On top of that, we have to take into account exposure to sunlight, diet, hormone balance, and any number of other factors. Now, if something (which exists along a spectrum, much like sexuality) like skin color is affected by so many factors, why would we expect sexuality to boil down to one simple factor?

I think that it's a combination of many factors. And I simply don't care, because it doesn't hurt anyone to have sex with whomever they choose, as long as no one is being violently raped/abused, and as long as precautions against disease and unwanted pregnancy are taken by mutual agreement.

Example: Killing our own species must be a biological imperative, otherwise, we would have perished as a species long ago. Yet, we still have murder, and even cannibalism. It's possible to override a biological imperative, if only by force of starvation, or even perceived competition for resources.

Choice or not, biological or not, I really don't care.

Why
am
I
not
suprised
the
author
of
this
thread
is
an
Okie?

My
damn
space
bar
quit
working!

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

Anal sex seems to be no more prevalent in 'gay' couples than it does in 'straight' couples.

Why
am
I
not
suprised
the
author
of
this
thread
is
an
Okie?

My
damn
space
bar
quit
working!

Have you tried switching it off and on again? the computer I mean. not the space bar. that would just be stupid.

Why
am
I
not
suprised
the
author
of
this
thread
is
an
Okie?

My
damn
space
bar
quit
working!
I
do
not
actually
live
in
Oklahoma
i
live
in
SC
just
a
big
OU
fan
there

So...you realise being gay isn't a choice now...


...right?

As a nobel prize laureate in hyperthermo-linear-nanomolecular-nuclear-science I laugh at both of your stupid theories.

Oh...And I'm a ninja-assassin on weekends.

Take your meds boy.

This isn't really directed at Ruffy, but why would it matter if it was a choice or not?

it doesnt matter if its genetic, psychological or pure choice. there is nothing wrong with it.

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell:p ...

*gives Okielahoma The Gay*

Ahahahaha! YOUR GAY LAWLZ OMGROTFL BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN LOL!!!!111!!1one

Speaking from my own point of view (bisexual male), it's really just about what satisfies you. It's the same with other non-conventional means of sexual satisfaction: some guys like feet a whole lot, and some like breasts. Some women like vibrators, some like dildos, some like vibrating dildos. It's all personal, and if the attraction between people is mutual, does it REALLY matter what gender they are? There are weirder things out there, and as long as all parties are willing, who are we to say what they can or can't do? Basically, to answer the question of "why be gay/lesbian?", I say "because that's what gets them goin'".

@ okielahoma: You do know that there are gay people in South Carolina, right? Though I do find it funny when people use the bible to justify intolerance, especially when most of it (specifically the old testament) is more old hebrew laws and codes, if anything. The fact is, not everyone is like you. Not everyone wants a family, not everyone wants to love the same people. I for one do not want children (though I won't be able too anyways), nor do I want to marry. But that does not make me any worse of a person, it just means I prefer my independence, and don't want the responsiblilty of a child. Just because I will not add to the gene pool doesn't mean I can't add to society in other ways.

Why be gay/lesbian? Just why? Where i live its very looked down upon i have no idea why you would wanna do your same sex! I mean guys especially walking around wiht a stick up your butt after sex. Come on!! You cant have kids with your partner, no family... i need answers.. and a dictionary so i can spell ...

Theres no choice. I've known that i'm gay since I was 7 and when I was in middle school I fell in love with a male science teacher.

BTW Who do you think became Priests, Nuns & Monks back during the early days of christianity? Gays and Lesbians have been around since the first humans evolved out of apes. Bonobo chimps also have same-sex relationships as well as other animals.

My ex was a twin. His brother was staight as an arrow and he was gay.

You need to come to Atlanta. I'd bet I could change your mind. You would make a great fag-hag!

Biological? Hah! If it were biological you bloody well wouldn't exist now would you? No, besides most genes come from you as you develop through life. You are not born with a sexuality preference therefor not sexually active. No 2 year old has a sexuality preference, it is a trait you develop later in life through your own perceptions and your family's customs.

So...you realise being gay isn't a choice now...


...right?
Yes, but not all of the time.

Biological? Hah! If it were biological you bloody well wouldn't exist now would you? Oh? Why would that be?

No, besides most genes come from you as you develop through life.

Oh dear... yes, I constantly keep working on my genes. I want them to be in perfect shape when I pass them on to my kids.


You are not born with a sexuality preference therefor not sexually active. No 2 year old has a sexuality preference, it is a trait you develop later in life through your own perceptions and your family's customs.

Very few two-year olds have fully functional marmary glands, either. Not everything that's in our genes is apparent in a child.

Demographics from South Carolina:
State of South Carolina
Total population 4,012,012 Rank: 26th
Percent of people in same-sex couples 0.38% Rank: 26th
Total same-sex couples 7,609 Rank: 26th
Percent of male couples 0.42% Rank: 27th
Percent of female couples 0.47% Rank: 25th
Middle of pack.
But my town is way low. It says there are only 23 gay/lesbian couples in my town. Population is 17,000

Why does this thread have 16 pages when you only really need one post? Silly.

Theres no choice. I've known that i'm gay since I was 7 and when I was in middle school I fell in love with a male science teacher.

BTW Who do you think became Priests, Nuns & Monks back during the early days of christianity? Gays and Lesbians have been around since the first humans evolved out of apes. Bonobo chimps also have same-sex relationships as well as other animals.

My ex was a twin. His brother was staight as an arrow and he was gay.

You need to come to Atlanta. I'd bet I could change your mind. You would make a great fag-hag!

I've been studying psychology for a while now. And it is quite normal for young kids having crushes on both females and males. It is not something strange or uncommon. Being gay or straight is a sexuality. If you are not sexually active then you don't have a bloody sexual preference. Chimps can have gay sex because they're not intelligent beings. There is no proof we evolved from a certain type of chimp. It's like saying fat people evolved from apes, and white people evolved from chimps and black people evolved from spider monkeys.

It's not biological, because if it were you would not exist. If that trait were to come up from that theory you gave me. It would be an astronomically low percentage. But it is quite funny you compare yourself to a chimp.

I've been studying psychology for a while now. And it is quite normal for young kids having crushes on both females and males. It is not something strange or uncommon. Being gay or straight is a sexuality. If you are not sexually active then you don't have a bloody sexual preference.

So... celibate priests don't have sexual preferences?
Or do you simply assume that prepubescent children have no sexuality of any kind? That somehow makes me doubt that statement that you study psychology.


Chimps can have gay sex because they're not intelligent beings.

What does intelligence have to do with sexuality???

There is no proof we evolved from a certain type of chimp. It's like saying fat people evolved from apes, and white people evolved from chimps and black people evolved from spider monkeys.

We didn't evolve from any of the living species of chimps. We do share a close common ancestor with chimps.


It's not biological, because if it were you would not exist.

Again, why? This statement doesn't make sense...

I've been studying psychology for a while now. And it is quite normal for young kids having crushes on both females and males. It is not something strange or uncommon. Being gay or straight is a sexuality. If you are not sexually active then you don't have a bloody sexual preference. Chimps can have gay sex because they're not intelligent beings. There is no proof we evolved from a certain type of chimp. It's like saying fat people evolved from apes, and white people evolved from chimps and black people evolved from spider monkeys.

It's not biological, because if it were you would not exist. If that trait were to come up from that theory you gave me. It would be an astronomically low percentage. But it is quite funny you compare yourself to a chimp.

Sorry from what i've read by Jane Goodall & Diane Fossey apes are actually very intellegent animals. Apes do have sex outside of mating:Bonobo sexual behavior. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Sexual_social_behavior)

Honestly most people have certian homosexual/hetrosexual tendecies but as Alfred Kinsey says their is a level (1-Completly Hetro to 6-Completly Gay) of what your sexuality is. I conisder my self a 4: Mostly gay with a few bi-tendencies.

Why does this thread have 16 pages when you only really need one post? Silly.

Shooting fish in a barrel is an interesting pastime for all on NS. It keeps us from fretting about the harder questions and arguments.

Sorry from what i've read by Jane Goodall & Diane Fossey apes are actually very intellegent animals. Apes do have sex outside of mating:Bonobo sexual behavior. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Sexual_social_behavior)

Honestly most people have certian homosexual/hetrosexual tendecies but as Alfred Kinsey says their is a level (1-Completly Hetro to 6-Completly Gay) of what your sexuality is. I conisder my self a 4: Mostly gay with a few bi-tendencies.

I'd consider myself a five.

Sorry from what i've read by Jane Goodall & Diane Fossey apes are actually very intellegent animals. Apes do have sex outside of mating:Bonobo sexual behavior. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Sexual_social_behavior)

Honestly most people have certian homosexual/hetrosexual tendecies but as Alfred Kinsey says their is a level (1-Completly Hetro to 6-Completly Gay) of what your sexuality is. I conisder my self a 4: Mostly gay with a few bi-tendencies.

I'd be either aa 2 or a 3, I guess.

Honestly most people have certian homosexual/hetrosexual tendecies but as Alfred Kinsey says their is a level (1-Completly Hetro to 6-Completly Gay) of what your sexuality is. I conisder my self a 4: Mostly gay with a few bi-tendencies.

Why is there no zero? (for "lack of sexuality")

Why is there no zero? (for "lack of sexuality")

That's a problem with the system.
I saw a better version on another forum, where the poster ranked gay levels from 0 to 10 and straight levels from 0 to 10. Straight would be a significantly higher straight then gay level, gay would be a significantly higher gay then straight level, bi would be similar levels of both, and asexual would be both at zero or almost zero.
But it's still a bit more complicated then that, as within asexuality you have asexuals who have a sex drive but nothing triggers it and asexuals that just don't have a sex drive.

That's a problem with the system.
I saw a better version on another forum, where the poster ranked gay levels from 0 to 10 and straight levels from 0 to 10. Straight would be a significantly higher straight then gay level, gay would be a significantly higher gay then straight level, bi would be similar levels of both, and asexual would be both at zero or almost zero.
But it's still a bit more complicated then that, as within asexuality you have asexuals who have a sex drive but nothing triggers it and asexuals that just don't have a sex drive.

That system seems like it would make a lot more sense then the other one. However, you're right. It still doesn't take everything into account.