NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4960559,00.html

CENTENNIAL - Sniffles and sobs resonated in a packed courtroom Thursday as a Saudi man convicted of sexually assaulting his Indonesian housekeeper was sentenced Thursday to 20 years to life in prison.

Homaidan Al-Turki, 37, was also ordered to serve eight additional years for theft charges.

He denied in Arapahoe County District Court that he enslaved the woman and said authorities targeted him because of his religion.

“Your honor, I am not here to apologize, for I cannot apologize for things I did not do and for crimes I did not commit,” he told Judge Mark Hannen. “The state has criminalized these basic Muslim behaviors. Attacking traditional Muslim behaviors was the focal point of the prosecution,” he said.

Prosecutor Natalie Decker said the trial had nothing to do with Al-Turki’s Muslim beliefs. “It has to do with what he did to her for five years,” she said outside the courtroom.

And, Arab News thinks that it's just discrimination - pure and simple. After all, basic Muslim behaviors like raping your female slave is OK according to sharia (it isn't even rape).

http://www.arabnews.com/services/print/print.asp?artid=86840&d=20&m=9&y=2006&hl=Al-Turki%20Episode%20Makes%20Saudis%20Think%20Twice%20Before%20Sending%20Children%20to%20US

JEDDAH, 20 September 2006 — Due to the intimidation and harassment Saudi students have been recently experiencing in the United States, especially after what happened to Homaidan Al-Turki and his family, Saudis are thinking twice before sending their children to study in America.

“Such discrimination and humiliation would discourage parents from even thinking about sending their children to study in the US,” said Muhammad Al-Enezi, 39.

Discrimination, intimidation, and harassment my ass. He's a rapist who held a woman as a slave.

I agree with you completely. One's faith is not a pass to enforce your will on another person. Ever.

i guess he should have checked for bizarre local laws before he moved to the US. you just never know when basic human rights are going to be enforced eh?

I also agree that he deserves to be locked up for the rest of his life.
I am also troubled by the fact that anyone would defend his behavior as "basic Muslim behaviors".

If Saudi's are defending the rape and slavery of an employee then I, for one, am glad they they won't be sending their children to study in the U.S.

And I would like someone to point out which passage of the Quran says it is ok to rape someone.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4960559,00.html



And, Arab News thinks that it's just discrimination - pure and simple. After all, basic Muslim behaviors like raping your female slave is OK according to sharia (it isn't even rape).

http://www.arabnews.com/services/print/print.asp?artid=86840&d=20&m=9&y=2006&hl=Al-Turki%20Episode%20Makes%20Saudis%20Think%20Twice%20Before%20Sending%20Children%20to%20US



Discrimination, intimidation, and harassment my ass. He's a rapist who held a woman as a slave.

Now, now, the article you quote for discrimination is talking about the backlash against students, not the crime itself.

All the rest though: 28 years is too short for a guy like that. They should've made it life.

I also agree that he deserves to be locked up for the rest of his life.
I am also troubled by the fact that anyone would defend his behavior as "basic Muslim behaviors".

If Saudi's are defending the rape and slavery of an employee then I, for one, am glad they they won't be sending their children to study in the U.S.

And I would like someone to point out which passage of the Quran says it is ok to rape someone.

Don't worry. All the people in Saudi Arabia who are complaining about his treatment and the editor of that newspaper who reported it like a human rights abuse are just some very small, fringe element. ;)

And, Arab News thinks that it's just discrimination - pure and simple. After all, basic Muslim behaviors like raping your female slave is OK according to sharia (it isn't even rape).

Not quite - I poked around online and read a few different versions of this story, and it appears that the position of the people supporting him is that they believe him to be innocent of the charges. They're not okaying rape, they're saying that the guy was a pillar of his community and therefore they don't believe that the rape ever occurred. Now, the "guys I like can't possibly be rapists!" mentality is pretty rotten in its own right, but it's not quite as bad as you make it out to be.

And yes, assuming the guy has been correctly convicted, he's a scumbag. Yuck.

Not quite - I poked around online and read a few different versions of this story, and it appears that the position of the people supporting him is that they believe him to be innocent of the charges. They're not okaying rape, they're saying that the guy was a pillar of his community and therefore they don't believe that the rape ever occurred. Now, the "guys I like can't possibly be rapists!" mentality is pretty rotten in its own right, but it's not quite as bad as you make it out to be.

And yes, assuming the guy has been correctly convicted, he's a scumbag. Yuck.

The problem is, under sharia, the only way to get a conviction for rape is to have multiple male witnesses testify on behalf of the woman. Otherwise, it's not rape.

Here in the US, we have DNA. Quite un-Islamic, I know, but those are the breaks.

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And, Arab News thinks that it's just discrimination - pure and simple. After all, basic Muslim behaviors like raping your female slave is OK according to sharia (it isn't even rape).


Discrimination, intimidation, and harassment my ass. He's a rapist who held a woman as a slave.

Do you even bother to read what these articles before you post them?
Or is it enough for you that it shows Muslims in a bad light, thus sparing you of critical thought.
Look again at the two articles. Closely, and (if possible for you) objectively, especially the bit you bolded:
“The state has criminalized these basic Muslim behaviors. Attacking traditional Muslim behaviors was the focal point of the prosecution,” (Homaidan Al-Turki) said.
Who said that?
Why, the guy who's just been convicted.
Tell me, when you read of a white guy claiming in a rape trial that 'she asked for it because she was wearing a short skirt and came onto me', do you immediately loudly denounce all white men? Do you take this one comment as 'proof' that all white men view it as their right to rape any woman they see in a mini-skirt? Do you create any threads where you state that this proves all white men are animals?

Here's a newsflash for you: People being charged of crimes will use every means at their disposal, including lying, making shit up and blaming the victim, in order to get off. Sometimes they're so good at it, they'll end up believing their own bullshit and will be shocked and in tears when convicted: They've convinced themselves that they've done nothing wrong, that the fault is in entirely on the shoulders of the victim and that they're personally being picked on because they're somehow different to the rest of society.
The only thing it proves is that humans are capable of going to great lengths to avoid facing up to their own rotten characters. Nothing else.


As for the 2nd article: Where does it say that Saudis are supporting this guy, and view it as discrimination that he's been convicted? All I can see is an article saying that Saudis are being discriminated and harrassed because of him - i.e. Bigotted arseholes are taking this shit's conviction as 'proof' that all Saudis are rapist scumbags and are going around telling everyone this, stirring up hatred and bigotry towards them.
You wouldn't happen to know anyone doing that, would you DK?

I agree with you completely. One's faith is not a pass to enforce your will on another person. Ever.

Well then, let's start banning circumcisions and baptisms, too.

I'm pretty sure those babies didn't give their consent before getting the little cut or the 'eternal covenant with god'


(by the way, I agree with you that religion does not override basic human rights, but I am unsure if you thought to the logical conclusion of this: where parents subject their children to potentially permanent (either physically or according to doctrine) religious rites that the children are unable to object to)

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4960559,00.html



And, Arab News thinks that it's just discrimination - pure and simple. After all, basic Muslim behaviors like raping your female slave is OK according to sharia (it isn't even rape).

http://www.arabnews.com/services/print/print.asp?artid=86840&d=20&m=9&y=2006&hl=Al-Turki%20Episode%20Makes%20Saudis%20Think%20Twice%20Before%20Sending%20Children%20to%20US



Discrimination, intimidation, and harassment my ass. He's a rapist who held a woman as a slave.

Thats not the point of those articles per se, as you will know. I'm beginning to think you were Islam'ed as a child.....

Pffft, discrimination. Like all good muslims are rapists. Maybe they are if this guy is to be believed. Maybe he can get some of his buddies to blow up a hotel while I get some boys that some priests can "cuddle" with.

Baseless and incorrect stereotypes are fun. :p

Well then, let's start banning circumcisions and baptisms, too.

I'm pretty sure those babies didn't give their consent before getting the little cut or the 'eternal covenant with god'

I fail to see the comparison. 5 seconds pain or getting a little wet does not equal 5 years of physical, mental, and emotional abuse.

This is the sort of thing we can all look forward to seeing on a regular basis, should Islam ever become the religion of a significant portion of the US.

This is the sort of thing we can all look forward to seeing on a regular basis, should Islam ever become the religion of a significant portion of the US.

"A couple whose adopted teenage sons weighed less than 50 pounds have been arrested on charges of starving four boys they adopted through the state Division of Youth and Family Services, New Jersey's troubled child welfare agency."

One depicted a religious, caring couple who opened their hearts and their home to fragile children. The other portrayed a cruel pair who systematically starved their adopted sons.

"Raymond Jackson, 50, and Vanessa Jackson, 48, were arrested Friday and charged with four counts of aggravated assault and 14 counts of endangering the welfare of children. Authorities say they starved their four adopted sons, who subsisted on a diet of oatmeal and uncooked pancake batter and grew so hungry they gnawed on windowsills, wallboard and insulation."
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/9416/starving-case-stirs-disbelief-scrutiny

Same shit, different prayers then?

Same shit, different prayers then?
With a right!

You wouldn't happen to know anyone doing that, would you DK?

And a left!

Oh, my.

Sorry for a cheer-leading post, but why continue to punch the unconscious. I'm not Jeff Speakman...

Do you even bother to read what these articles before you post them?
I don't think he bothers anymore...

This is the sort of thing we can all look forward to seeing on a regular basis, should Islam ever become the religion of a significant portion of the US.

Complete and utter bullshite.

And it's not like sexual assault is uncommon in the US today, is it?

With a right!


And a left!

Oh, my.

Sorry for a cheer-leading post, but why continue to punch the unconscious. I'm not Jeff Speakman...


But he's a "great debater"....obviously hes using the rope a dope tactic. In the classic version though, its not meant to be the dope on the ropes, but I'm sure he knows what hes doing.

This is the sort of thing we can all look forward to seeing on a regular basis, should Islam ever become the religion of a significant portion of the US.

Hey, look! A strawman!

I don't think he bothers anymore...

Complete and utter bullshite.

And it's not like sexual assault is uncommon in the US today, is it?

Sexual assault, where one claims that it's part of your religious rights to do so, is uncommon in the US (recent polygamist child molesters have done so).

It's not bullshit that he was convicted of multiple counts of rape. Convicted of felony imprisonment. And it's not bullshit that he claims that these are merely "basic Muslim behaviors".

Try again.

I agree with you completely. One's faith is not a pass to enforce your will on another person. Ever.

Agreed

Agreed

It's about as revolting as that polygamist who was arranging "marriages" to way underage girls.

Sexual assault, where one claims that it's part of your religious rights to do so, is uncommon in the US (recent polygamist child molesters have done so).

It's not bullshit that he was convicted of multiple counts of rape. Convicted of felony imprisonment. And it's not bullshit that he claims that these are merely "basic Muslim behaviors".

Try again.So how much more common is sexual assault on grounds of islamic faith than mormon faith?

So how much more common is sexual assault on grounds of islamic faith than mormon faith?

Let's see...

Well, we probably don't have accurate figures in countries that have sharia law.

Why?

Because to prove rape, a woman needs several male witnesses who are Muslims to testify on her behalf.

DNA is not evidence in a sharia court.

If we're to believe what the accused says in this case, that what counts as sexual assault and imprisonment here in the US is merely "basic Muslim behaviors", then one may presume that anyone engaging in these specific "basic Muslim behaviors" (taking sexual advantage of your servants against their will and without the presence of male Muslim witnesses) is actually engaging in what the US calls rape.

Let's see...

Well, we probably don't have accurate figures in countries that have sharia law.

Why?

Because to prove rape, a woman needs several male witnesses who are Muslims to testify on her behalf.

DNA is not evidence in a sharia court.

If we're to believe what the accused says in this case, that what counts as sexual assault and imprisonment here in the US is merely "basic Muslim behaviors", then one may presume that anyone engaging in these specific "basic Muslim behaviors" (taking sexual advantage of your servants against their will and without the presence of male Muslim witnesses) is actually engaging in what the US calls rape.

We cant even get an accurate count in the USA … with the stigma some women feel after getting raped the report rate is kind of depressing

Let's see...

...blah blah blah unrelated crap....

I think the person was talking about this in the USA.

it's not bullshit that he claims that these are merely "basic Muslim behaviors".

It is bullshit. And you do it all the time. Sure, you can show me a sharia law that says something. Big deal. The laws in the Bible and the OT are just as despicable and misogynist.

We cant even get an accurate count in the USA … with the stigmata some women feel after getting raped the report rate is kind of depressing

You mean stigma. Stigmata is a Catholic miracle that...oh wait, am I explaining Catholic dogma to UpwardThrust?

We cant even get an accurate count in the USA … with the stigmata some women feel after getting raped the report rate is kind of depressing

It's fairly reasonable to assume a certain percentage in the US would not report it. Due to social stigma - but at least a woman in the US has some hope that DNA or other forensic evidence can make her case, and put the guy in jail.

If you're waiting for evidence in a country with sharia (two other Muslim males who witnessed the act), your expectation of justice is rather slim. Especially when you consider that a woman who reports a rape in such a country, and fails to get the requisite witnesses, is then sentenced for corrupting a Muslim man.

That seems like a stern deterrent to reporting rape.

You mean stigma. Stigmata is a Catholic miracle that...oh wait, am I explaining Catholic dogma to UpwardThrust?

Sorry I must have fubared it … an autocorrect by word

It's fairly reasonable to assume a certain percentage in the US would not report it. Due to social stigma - but at least a woman in the US has some hope that DNA or other forensic evidence can make her case, and put the guy in jail.

If you're waiting for evidence in a country with sharia (two other Muslim males who witnessed the act), your expectation of justice is rather slim. Especially when you consider that a woman who reports a rape in such a country, and fails to get the requisite witnesses, is then sentenced for corrupting a Muslim man.

That seems like a stern deterrent to reporting rape.

Still well below 50 percent estimated in the USA

I not saying it dont suck over there just that it sucks all over

Still well below 50 percent estimated in the USA

I not saying it dont suck over there just that it sucks all over

Sure it sucks everywhere. It's just that you don't usually hear the typical US rapist claiming that "I did nothing wrong - it's just my basic religious behaviors - and you're discriminating against me!"

Sure it sucks everywhere. It's just that you don't usually hear the typical US rapist claiming that "I did nothing wrong - it's just my basic religious behaviors - and you're discriminating against me!"

And this is a typical Muslim rapist?

Sure it sucks everywhere. It's just that you don't usually hear the typical US rapist claiming that "I did nothing wrong - it's just my basic religious behaviors - and you're discriminating against me!"

Nor an active law (unlike the biblical ones BTW) that requires numerous male witnesses or otherwise the woman gets imprisoned.

And this is a typical Muslim rapist?

He says that his behaviors are typical.

The Arab News appears to agree that merely by being a typical Muslim in the US, you can get charged with rape.

So perhaps he is.

I agree that this crime is despicable. I'm not sure you should use this case to make a generalized statement about all muslims. It's probably just a case of a deviant trying to find an excuse for his behavoir.

Nonetheless, the state of women's rights in muslim countries is appalling. Even if a majority of muslims would not themselves commit this crime, I doubt most muslims will actively condemn it either.

And this is a typical Muslim rapist?

Yes, actually, it is. Rape (or gang rape) are often either ignored completely or the woman is punished instead in societies like Iran and Saudi Arabia. The "typical Muslim rapist" generally feels women deserve what is done to them and the legal system in these countries vindicate this by punishing the victims. We are all familiar with the story of the 16 year old girl being raped and then executed because she accused her attackers.

Do a little research on the subject, a lot of human rights and women's rights groups have a fuckload of documentation on the subject. It isn't hard when it's so sickeningly common.

In loathing of Muslims, Kimchi (and everyone else) seems to forget problems inherent in a patriarchal society, that is, women have no rights or respect. Welcome to the US at least 50 years ago, or even sooner.

In loathing of Muslims, Kimchi (and everyone else) seems to forget problems inherent in a patriarchal society, that is, women have no rights or respect. Welcome to the US at least 50 years ago, or even sooner.

Well, we've made progress then. There's no excuse for the rest of the world to stay behind, is there?

In loathing of Muslims, Kimchi (and everyone else) seems to forget problems inherent in a patriarchal society, that is, women have no rights or respect. Welcome to the US at least 50 years ago, or even sooner.

Spousal rape was note made illegal in the USA until 1975.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spousal_rape#Legal_Aspect

Many United States rape statutes used to preclude prosecution of a man for sexually assaulting his own wife, including if the couple are estranged or even legally separated. In 1975, South Dakota removed this exception. By 1993, this was the case throughout the United States[2]. However, 33 of 50 U.S. states regard spousal rape as a lesser crime [Bergen, 1999].

Well, we've made progress then. There's no excuse for the rest of the world to stay behind, is there?

Oh ys, I forgot thing the two things embedded in American society: A disdain for taxes of any kind and a sense of manifest destiny and ultimate social/moral superiority.

The problem is, under sharia, the only way to get a conviction for rape is to have multiple male witnesses testify on behalf of the woman. Otherwise, it's not rape.

Here in the US, we have DNA. Quite un-Islamic, I know, but those are the breaks.

Correct me if I'm wrong: So, if a woman in a country under sharia were raped, and there was physical evidence (in the form of DNA or whatever) PROVING she was raped, they would dismiss the evidence, and not believe her unless she had the multiple witnesses?

What a crock of shit.

Oh ys, I forgot thing the two things embedded in American society: A disdain for taxes of any kind and a sense of manifest destiny and ultimate social/moral superiority.

We got the last two from the Europeans. They still have the last one going strong.

We got the last two from the Europeans. They still have the last one going strong.

There are only two. And no, manifest destiny and social/moral superiority was created by the Americans.

There are only two. And no, manifest destiny and social/moral superiority was created by the Americans.

manifest Destiny maybe. The social/moral superiority thing is BS. Why don't you show some evidence for that one.

There are only two. And no, manifest destiny and social/moral superiority was created by the Americans.

The Geneva Conventions and Hague Conventions were conceived where? And which countries complain the most about US violations of the same?

Manifest destiny and social/moral superiority are two different things.

Also, the people who first came here and disposed of the natives were Europeans, with plenty of manifest destiny and social/moral superiority. After all, they had their religion to say it was so.

The Geneva Conventions and Hague Conventions were conceived where? And which countries complain the most about US violations of the same?

Manifest destiny and social/moral superiority are two different things.

Also, the people who first came here and disposed of the natives were Europeans, with plenty of manifest destiny and social/moral superiority. After all, they had their religion to say it was so.

Go go gadget red herring. No, wait, not just one. It's a whole school of red herring.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny
I declare myself the winner, though Deep Kimchi being stubborn and hateful of everything Muslim and European, and liberal, will refuse to acknowledge anything beyond that.

In loathing of Muslims, Kimchi (and everyone else) seems to forget problems inherent in a patriarchal society, that is, women have no rights or respect. Welcome to the US at least 50 years ago, or even sooner.

If anything, the fact that we ourselves had to come to terms with this issue in the past and correct our mistakes should make us more qualified to share our views on the matter with other nations facing the same problem.

Just because you haven't realized what you're doing is wrong, doesn't make you right.

Go go gadget red herring. No, wait, not just one. It's a whole school of red herring.

Said the pot calling the kettle black.

If anything, the fact that we ourselves had to come to terms with this issue in the past and correct our mistakes should make us more qualified to share our views on the matter with other nations facing the same problem.

Just because you haven't realized what you're doing is wrong, doesn't make you right.
We are still a wholly patriarchal society where women gained the rights they did not out of a lessening of the partiarchal view and empathy of the patriarchs but through their own hardfought campaign of their own accord. Forcing our ideas of women's rights on a country would be just as successful as forcing our ideas of democracy on them, specifically - it wouldn't. How can we force something on a country that we only gained through revolution of the general populace? They themselves would have to have their own revolution to convince that women needed rights or laws protecting women's rights would just be a dog and pony show and would have no real enforcement or protection.
Unless of course we conquer the country and stay in control for the hundreds of years it would take for the change to be sufficiently accepted and enforced to an acceptable degree.

Yes, actually, it is. Rape (or gang rape) are often either ignored completely or the woman is punished instead in societies like Iran and Saudi Arabia. The "typical Muslim rapist" generally feels women deserve what is done to them and the legal system in these countries vindicate this by punishing the victims. We are all familiar with the story of the 16 year old girl being raped and then executed because she accused her attackers.

Do a little research on the subject, a lot of human rights and women's rights groups have a fuckload of documentation on the subject. It isn't hard when it's so sickeningly common.

Actually rape is punished severely… It can be a problem to find the four witnesses required for the hodud, or given punishment, that is correct.

However there is another path to come to the conviction of the criminal, called tazeer
Actually, the entire Muslim law was based on Tazeer because the Hadd and Kisas had been prescribed for a very few offences only. “The process of trial in cases falling under the category of Tazeer was also simple as compared to the trial procedure in cases falling under Hadd”.29 Tazeer could be inflicted on a confession, evidence of two persons or even on strong presumption.
Dissertation Mohamed Al Awabdeh (2005) History and prospect of Islamic Criminal Law with respect to the Human Rights

We are still a wholly patriarchal society where women gained the rights they did not out of a lessening of the partiarchal view and empathy of the patriarchs but through their own hardfought campaign of their own accord. Forcing our ideas of women's rights on a country would be just as successful as forcing our ideas of democracy on them, specifically - it wouldn't. How can we force something on a country that we only gained through revolution of the general populace? They themselves would have to have their own revolution to convince that women needed rights or laws protecting women's rights would just be a dog and pony show and would have no real enforcement or protection.
Unless of course we conquer the country and stay in control for the hundreds of years it would take for the change to be sufficiently accepted and enforced to an acceptable degree.

You're right. There is no way we can force our ideas on a populace that is not ready to embrace them. What we can do is raise awareness, so that women living in these countries know that there is an alternative lifestyle for women. I don't think we can force them to accept our ideals as truths, but we can try to support those who are trying to find out the truth for themselves.

[insert obligatory Islam-is-barbaric-and-evil comment here]

[insert obligatory Islam-isn't-so-bad comment here]

We got the last two from the Europeans. They still have the last one going strong.

I do believe that we are the pigs that slowly walked away.

You're right. There is no way we can force our ideas on a populace that is not ready to embrace them. What we can do is raise awareness, so that women living in these countries know that there is an alternative lifestyle for women. I don't think we can force them to accept our ideals as truths, but we can try to support those who are trying to find out the truth for themselves.

We can sure force them to accept our ways if they move to the US and decide to go to school here.

No enslaving your maid and raping her when you feel like it.

Sexual assault, where one claims that it's part of your religious rights to do so, is uncommon in the US (recent polygamist child molesters have done so).
And some people said the voices in their head made them do it, and some blame video games or TV. Some claim to protect the world from alien attack, some claim it's their right as a husband. So?

It's not bullshit that he was convicted of multiple counts of rape. Convicted of felony imprisonment. And it's not bullshit that he claims that these are merely "basic Muslim behaviors".
No, I never claimed it to be. But this is the bullshit, right here:
This is the sort of thing we can all look forward to seeing on a regular basis, should Islam ever become the religion of a significant portion of the US.
Now read that, and then your own post again, and see how you once again adressed something I never said. You're good at that.

Try again.
I don't have to. Your OP is silly beyond belief, and you've hit quite a new low, even for you. You either haven't read the second article you present, or you can't understand it.

I get it, you have an agenda - but geeze, there's a lot of better material to use to push it. Go find something better for us to waste our time with, please! Try again, as you say, because this is just ridiculous!

Here, I'll post your own post again - now please read the highlighted portion three times aloud for yourself:

And, Arab News thinks that it's just discrimination - pure and simple. After all, basic Muslim behaviors like raping your female slave is OK according to sharia (it isn't even rape).

http://www.arabnews.com/services/print/print.asp?artid=86840&d=20&m=9&y=2006&hl=Al-Turki%20Episode%20Makes%20Saudis%20Think%20Twice%20Before%20Sending%20Children%20to%20US

JEDDAH, 20 September 2006 — Due to the intimidation and harassment Saudi students have been recently experiencing in the United States, especially after what happened to Homaidan Al-Turki and his family, Saudis are thinking twice before sending their children to study in America.

“Such discrimination and humiliation would discourage parents from even thinking about sending their children to study in the US,” said Muhammad Al-Enezi, 39.

Discrimination, intimidation, and harassment my ass. He's a rapist who held a woman as a slave.

See the difference between the rapist and the students?

He says that his behaviors are typical.

The Arab News appears to agree that merely by being a typical Muslim in the US, you can get charged with rape.

So perhaps he is.
NO!!! The newspaper does not! Read it again! Dear lord, why don't you attack the Saudi government instead, since they gave him bail money - then you might start to assemble a case.
Sure it sucks everywhere. It's just that you don't usually hear the typical US rapist claiming that "I did nothing wrong - it's just my basic religious behaviors - and you're discriminating against me!"
But you do hear them say "I did nothing wrong - it's just [insert generic unbelievable excuse here - like "she was asking for it by the way she dressed"] - and you're treating me unfairly!"

Hey, look! A strawman!
Indeed.

Here, I'll post your own post again - now please read the highlighted portion three times aloud for yourself:

Read this part:
especially after what happened to Homaidan Al-Turki

What happened to him is that he was arrested, tried, and convicted of multiple counts of felony rape and felony imprisonment.

Nothing else.

No harassment, no intimidation. Just enforcement of regular US laws, which make what al-Turki calls "basic Muslim behaviors" a crime.

Please read it over and over again. He even said in his statement that this is just harassment for being a Muslim engaged in basic Muslim behaviors - and the Arab News (and the Saudi government, and people interviewed) see this as harassment for being a Muslim engaged in basic Muslim behaviors.

It's unthinkable to them that this is rape, because it doesn't fit the definition of rape under sharia.

It's the equivalent of saying, "gee, I can't understand why Americans are so upset that I fuck my slave when I feel like it"

Read this part:


What happened to him is that he was arrested, tried, and convicted of multiple counts of felony rape and felony imprisonment.

Nothing else.

No harassment, no intimidation. Just enforcement of regular US laws, which make what al-Turki calls "basic Muslim behaviors" a crime.

Please read it over and over again. He even said in his statement that this is just harassment for being a Muslim engaged in basic Muslim behaviors - and the Arab News (and the Saudi government, and people interviewed) see this as harassment for being a Muslim engaged in basic Muslim behaviors.

It's unthinkable to them that this is rape, because it doesn't fit the definition of rape under sharia.

It's the equivalent of saying, "gee, I can't understand why Americans are so upset that I fuck my slave when I feel like it"
especially after what happened to Homaidan Al-Turki
and his family,
You forgot a vital part.

And the harassment was of the students.

And the newspaper doesn't indicate that they see this as harassment for being a Muslim - that's all him.

*Sigh*

You know what? Forget it. This drivel is not worth my time.

Correct me if I'm wrong: So, if a woman in a country under sharia were raped, and there was physical evidence (in the form of DNA or whatever) PROVING she was raped, they would dismiss the evidence, and not believe her unless she had the multiple witnesses?

What a crock of shit.

Sharia law states she needs 4 male witnesses, DNA of the actual male isn't a witness. And I doubt the clerics would care about some 'western' concept of DNA evidence.

It's the equivalent of saying, "gee, I can't understand why Americans are so upset that I fuck my slave when I feel like it"

And what's wrong with fucking your slave if you feel like it? It's one of the things slaves are for, after all.



The problem is slavery itself. Fucking with a female slave for sex hardly can qualify as improper use. There are much worse things done with slaves.

Well then, let's start banning circumcisions and baptisms, too.

I'm pretty sure those babies didn't give their consent before getting the little cut or the 'eternal covenant with god'


(by the way, I agree with you that religion does not override basic human rights, but I am unsure if you thought to the logical conclusion of this: where parents subject their children to potentially permanent (either physically or according to doctrine) religious rites that the children are unable to object to)


circumcisions, yeh, as they cause pain (whatever you thnk about the long-term mental effects, they cause a heck of a lot of physical pain), but unless it's full immersion a baptism is just throwing a bit of water on a baby's head a few times