NationStates Jolt Archive


Hot Christian sex

Utracia
20-09-2006, 21:19
I know article is a few days old so perhaps it has been posted already. But when I saw it I couldn't stop laughing. It really is about time someone got Christians to lighten up about sex. I can understand that you may feel that you must wait until marriage to have sex but once you are why must you limit yourself as to what you do? As is mentioned, sex is a gift that God gave us so why should it be dirty even after marriage? Those Christians who feel that it is should listen to this guy and realize they are really missing out! Why get married to begin with if you are going to restrict yourself with what you do with your partner?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13834042/
Free shepmagans
20-09-2006, 21:22
Fundies are HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT. Just saying.
Khadgar
20-09-2006, 21:23
Good, maybe it'll relax some of them.
Ice Hockey Players
20-09-2006, 21:33
Really...so a fundie preacher is encouraging non-procreative sex? That doesn't make sense. It has to be borrowed from The Onion. You would be surprised how many people, in this day and age, believe that sex is solely for married people trying to procreate.
Free shepmagans
20-09-2006, 21:35
Really...so a fundie preacher is encouraging non-procreative sex? That doesn't make sense. It has to be borrowed from The Onion. You would be surprised how many people, in this day and age, believe that sex is solely for married people trying to procreate.

I've been told (By hyper-fundies) that if it ain't in the new testiment, we ain't gotta abide by it. Does the new testiment mention Non-procreative heterosexual sex?
Hiemria
20-09-2006, 21:37
Really...so a fundie preacher is encouraging non-procreative sex? That doesn't make sense. It has to be borrowed from The Onion. You would be surprised how many people, in this day and age, believe that sex is solely for married people trying to procreate.

I believe that. But it isn't a bad thing. It's just one of the best things so it should be held up high instead of used as some means to feeling good.
Sane Outcasts
20-09-2006, 21:43
I know article is a few days old so perhaps it has been posted already. But when I saw it I couldn't stop laughing. It really is about time someone got Christians to lighten up about sex. I can understand that you may feel that you must wait until marriage to have sex but once you are why must you limit yourself as to what you do? As is mentioned, sex is a gift that God gave us so why should it be dirty even after marriage? Those Christians who feel that it is should listen to this guy and realize they are really missing out! Why get married to begin with if you are going to restrict yourself with what you do with your partner?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13834042/

About damn time a preacher started using the Song of Solomon to guide his congregation.
Poliwanacraca
20-09-2006, 21:43
Really...so a fundie preacher is encouraging non-procreative sex? That doesn't make sense. It has to be borrowed from The Onion. You would be surprised how many people, in this day and age, believe that sex is solely for married people trying to procreate.

Well, he is still saying that it's solely for married people. As far as I know, no major Protestant denominations actually forbid non-procreative sex per se; that's a Catholic thing (although last I heard, even the official doctrine there is that married Catholics are perfectly allowed to have oral/anal sex, provided they treat it as "foreplay," which I think is kind of amusing).

Personally, I was just depressed by the nonsense in the article about how it's sinful to have sex with your wife when she's menstruating. Bleh. :rolleyes:
Smunkeeville
20-09-2006, 21:46
I don't remember any sex rules being handed out at church. :confused:

I do remember attending a conference when I was a mariage counselor that had a preacher at it that said "anything between a married couple is fine" , I don't remember it being very restrictive.
Ice Hockey Players
20-09-2006, 21:47
I've been told (By hyper-fundies) that if it ain't in the new testiment, we ain't gotta abide by it. Does the new testiment mention Non-procreative heterosexual sex?

I don't know, does it? There was a part where God told...was it Abraham?...to father a child, and it referred to him "spilling his seed" and it was this passage that people used in order to ban self-gratification, among other things.
Free shepmagans
20-09-2006, 21:49
I don't know, does it? There was a part where God told...was it Abraham?...to father a child, and it referred to him "spilling his seed" and it was this passage that people used in order to ban self-gratification, among other things.

That's old testiment. We're free from anything Jesus didn't repeat. (At least that's what I've been told...)
Ice Hockey Players
20-09-2006, 21:51
That's old testiment. We're free from anything Jesus didn't repeat. (At least that's what I've been told...)

OK, wasn't sure, although I don't imagine that fundies are averse to quoting Leviticus to condemn homosexuals or quoting Genesis to disavow Darwin or the Big Bang...
Smunkeeville
20-09-2006, 21:51
I don't know, does it? There was a part where God told...was it Abraham?...to father a child, and it referred to him "spilling his seed" and it was this passage that people used in order to ban self-gratification, among other things.

it wasn't Abraham, it was Onan, and the problem wasn't that he pulled out, it was that he lied to everyone about it.
Utracia
20-09-2006, 21:51
I don't remember any sex rules being handed out at church. :confused:

I do remember attending a conference when I was a mariage counselor that had a preacher at it that said "anything between a married couple is fine" , I don't remember it being very restrictive.

My church simply states that you must wait until marriage. After that it is silent on the topic so I guess once you are married who cares? ;)
Smunkeeville
20-09-2006, 21:53
My church simply states that you must wait until marriage. After that it is silent on the topic so I guess once you are married who cares? ;)

I guess not. Although my cousin is devout Catholic and is sure I am going to hell because I enjoy sex, and my husband had a vasectomy.
Vacuumhead
20-09-2006, 21:55
What's this hot christian sex? Am I missing out on something good? :(
Free shepmagans
20-09-2006, 21:56
What's this hot christian sex? Am I missing out on something good? :(

I knew all along, you mocked me, but I KNEW. ;) :p
Utracia
20-09-2006, 21:58
I guess not. Although my cousin is devout Catholic and is sure I am going to hell because I enjoy sex, and my husband had a vasectomy.

I just can't fathom why Christians could think that non-reproductive sex is evil. If God says that sex is a gift given in marriage then I think Christians should believe him. I'm sure they would all feel much more relaxed with their life if they weren't so repressed.
Gift-of-god
20-09-2006, 21:59
1:7 Tell me, O thou whom my soul loveth, where thou feedest, where thou makest thy flock to rest at noon: for why should I be as one that turneth aside by the flocks of thy companions?
1:8 If thou know not, O thou fairest among women, go thy way forth by the footsteps of the flock, and feed thy kids beside the shepherds' tents.
1:9 I have compared thee, O my love, to a company of horses in Pharaoh's chariots.
1:10 Thy cheeks are comely with rows of jewels, thy neck with chains of gold.
1:11 We will make thee borders of gold with studs of silver.
1:12 While the king sitteth at his table, my spikenard sendeth forth the smell thereof.
1:13 A bundle of myrrh is my well-beloved unto me; he shall lie all night betwixt my breasts.

Nothing like multiorgasmic lovemaking to prove god loves all Her children.
Philosopy
20-09-2006, 22:00
It's a proven fact that Christians make the best lovers.

I've been a Christian all my life and can assure you that no one tells you that 'sex is dirty'. Something for marriage, yes, but that doesn't mean you're not allowed to enjoy it.
CthulhuFhtagn
20-09-2006, 22:05
Damnit, I can never remember the verse in Song of Solomon that mentions blowjobs.
Nihonou-san
20-09-2006, 22:06
Holy Jimi Hendrix.

I never thought conservative Christians even had sex. People like this dude should be highly respected. I am a believer in sex, when you want it.
Utracia
20-09-2006, 22:07
What's this hot christian sex? Am I missing out on something good? :(

It is something many Christians are themselves missing out on. ;)
CthulhuFhtagn
20-09-2006, 22:10
Well, I'm going through it and I found some stuff.

My beloved thrust his hand in through the latch opening. My heart pounded for him.

I rose up to open for my beloved. My hands dripped with myrrh, my fingers with liquid myrrh, on the handles of the lock.


Ah, here it is.

As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, his fruit was sweet to my taste.
Vacuumhead
20-09-2006, 22:16
What's the difference between hot christian sex and the sex us non-christians get? Why is it so hot, or do I have to convert to christianity to find out? :(

It's four days until sunday, I'll have to find out where the nearest church is before then...
Free shepmagans
20-09-2006, 22:19
What's the difference between hot christian sex and the sex us non-christians get? Why is it so hot, or do I have to convert to christianity to find out? :(

It's four days until sunday, I'll have to find out where the nearest church is before then...

It's a secret, like that Xenu thing in scientology. ;)
Vacuumhead
20-09-2006, 22:23
It's a secret, like that Xenu thing in scientology. ;)

How many times do you have to go to church until you get told the secret?
Free shepmagans
20-09-2006, 22:28
How many times do you have to go to church until you get told the secret?

It's a MRI thing, we gotta make sure you're actually converted.
Dempublicents1
20-09-2006, 22:29
I thought this thread was going to be about the Christian hippie cult that believed in spreading Christ's love through sex. They would send women out to sleep with men to help convert them and told members to fantasize that they were sharing the sexual experience with Jesus Christ (men were supposed to fantasize that they were women having sex with Christ).

Wacky stuff.

But this is better. Finally, someone gets away from the Paulian viewpoint that sex is bad.
Utracia
20-09-2006, 22:47
I thought this thread was going to be about the Christian hippie cult that believed in spreading Christ's love through sex. They would send women out to sleep with men to help convert them and told members to fantasize that they were sharing the sexual experience with Jesus Christ (men were supposed to fantasize that they were women having sex with Christ).

Really? Sleeping with the men is supposed to convert them?
Dempublicents1
20-09-2006, 22:50
Really? Sleeping with the men is supposed to convert them?

I think it was supposed to get them to want to come to church, or something like that.
CthulhuFhtagn
20-09-2006, 22:51
Really? Sleeping with the men is supposed to convert them?

I'd convert.
Free shepmagans
20-09-2006, 22:52
I think it was supposed to get them to want to come to church, or something like that.

hehehehehe
Ilie
20-09-2006, 22:56
There are rules many in the secular world reject. You have to be married. You have to be heterosexual. Other prohibitions include no sex with animals, no incest, no lust for people other than your spouse, no adultery (and that includes consensual threesomes and group sex) and no porn, rape or prostitution. You can’t harm the body. And you can’t have sex during a woman’s menstrual period.

Oh yeah, other than all that, go crazy! :rolleyes:
Dempublicents1
20-09-2006, 23:03
There are rules many in the secular world reject. You have to be married. You have to be heterosexual. Other prohibitions include no sex with animals, no incest, no lust for people other than your spouse, no adultery (and that includes consensual threesomes and group sex) and no porn, rape or prostitution. You can’t harm the body. And you can’t have sex during a woman’s menstrual period.

Oh yeah, other than all that, go crazy! :rolleyes:

There's quite a bit of experimentation you can do while staying within those confines.

I do have to wonder about the menstruation one though. That's not one I've heard condemned by many Christian churches. It's one of the cleanliness laws in the OT - along the same lines as the food law - and most people think those were done away with by the new covenant. I'm wondering why he chose to include that one.
Ashmoria
20-09-2006, 23:26
I guess not. Although my cousin is devout Catholic and is sure I am going to hell because I enjoy sex, and my husband had a vasectomy.

your cousin is a devout catholic and THATS the reason she thinks youre going to hell?
Ilie
20-09-2006, 23:27
There's quite a bit of experimentation you can do while staying within those confines.

I do have to wonder about the menstruation one though. That's not one I've heard condemned by many Christian churches. It's one of the cleanliness laws in the OT - along the same lines as the food law - and most people think those were done away with by the new covenant. I'm wondering why he chose to include that one.

Unless you happen to be gay. Not a lot of wiggle room there. Too bad for them, I suppose!
Smunkeeville
20-09-2006, 23:30
your cousin is a devout catholic and THATS the reason she thinks youre going to hell?

oh, she comes up with new reasons every week, most of the time the vasectomy comes up as a really bad sin though.
Ilie
20-09-2006, 23:31
oh, she comes up with new reasons every week, most of the time the vasectomy comes up as a really bad sin though.

I didn't realize vasectomies were a problem. Of course, what ISN'T a problem when you're Catholic?
Vacuumhead
20-09-2006, 23:32
I didn't realize vasectomies were a problem. Of course, what ISN'T a problem when you're Catholic?

If you enjoy it, then it must be a sin. Most things else are fine. Or something like that...
:gundge:
The Psyker
20-09-2006, 23:37
If you enjoy it, then it must be a sin. Most things else are fine. Or something like that...
:gundge:

Hey the Catholic church is all in favor of drinking. It even had laws during the middle ages requireing people to drink beer and such in some places, of course at the time the local pastor/monestary often had its own brewery who you would be buying from....:D
Ilie
20-09-2006, 23:38
If you enjoy it, then it must be a sin. Most things else are fine. Or something like that...
:gundge:

So I've gathered. I once dated a guy whose mother was very Catholic, and she wanted us to listen to a cassette tape (this was just maybe 5 years ago, don't ask me why she still had cassette tapes) about why using birth control is wrong. And here I'm thinking...is that really the worst thing we're doing as far as she is concerned?

- we weren't married (and still aren't, he's my ex now) but we were engaging in fornication
- I'm not Catholic, I'm Jewish
- if we did follow that advice, I'd have gotten knocked up, which would have resulted in either me being a single mother or an abortion (the latter would have been more likely)

It just seemed bizarre.
Poliwanacraca
20-09-2006, 23:39
I didn't realize vasectomies were a problem. Of course, what ISN'T a problem when you're Catholic?

Well, a vasectomy is a form of birth control, and that's a big no-no according to official Catholic doctrine. (Enjoying sex, however, is not supposed to be sinful, and any Catholic who tells you it is is just sharing their own silly beliefs, not the position of the Catholic Church as a whole.)
Smunkeeville
20-09-2006, 23:42
I didn't realize vasectomies were a problem. Of course, what ISN'T a problem when you're Catholic?

it's wrong (according to her) to have sex if you aren't actively trying to reproduce, by making reproduction nearly impossible we are just having sex to fulfill our "lustful desires"

I am also going to hell for listening to secular music, for attending a Baptist church, for not taking my wafer with communion, for not confessing to the priest, for driving an SUV, and for eating meat whenever I feel like it.

I am pretty sure almost all of that comes from her Catholic-ness, although probably not the SUV.
The Psyker
20-09-2006, 23:43
it's wrong (according to her) to have sex if you aren't actively trying to reproduce, by making reproduction nearly impossible we are just having sex to fulfill our "lustful desires"

I am also going to hell for listening to secular music, for attending a Baptist church, for not taking my wafer with communion, for not confessing to the priest, for driving an SUV, and for eating meat whenever I feel like it.

I am pretty sure almost all of that comes from her Catholic-ness, although probably not the SUV.

Yeah, aside from the birth-control bit, which I'm pretty sure isn't a mortal sin, thats all bs coming out of her own crazzyness.
Ilie
20-09-2006, 23:45
it's wrong (according to her) to have sex if you aren't actively trying to reproduce, by making reproduction nearly impossible we are just having sex to fulfill our "lustful desires"

I am also going to hell for listening to secular music, for attending a Baptist church, for not taking my wafer with communion, for not confessing to the priest, for driving an SUV, and for eating meat whenever I feel like it.

I am pretty sure almost all of that comes from her Catholic-ness, although probably not the SUV.

Well shoot, if you're already going to hell for all THAT, what's to stop you from doing all sorts of other terrible things too? Like buying an extra pair of socks at Target, or sleeping with women, or participating in eco-terrorism? Seems like it's more effective to have a few reasonable rules that one can follow consistently than a million little ones that are basically impossible to live by.
Smunkeeville
20-09-2006, 23:46
Yeah, aside from the birth-control bit, which I'm pretty sure isn't a mortal sin, thats all bs coming out of her own crazzyness.

well, it's hard for me to seperate it when I ask for scriptural backing and she says "read your own Bible, I don't know what it says"

I figure she must be getting these ideas elsewhere and since the only other place she goes besides the grocery store is church......I don't know.

(btw she has 7 kids, they are 6,5, 4, 3, 2 (those are twins) 8 months, and she is pregnant again.
Smunkeeville
20-09-2006, 23:47
Well shoot, if you're already going to hell for all THAT, what's to stop you from doing all sorts of other terrible things too? Like buying an extra pair of socks at Target, or sleeping with women, or participating in eco-terrorism? Seems like it's more effective to have a few reasonable rules that one can follow consistently than a million little ones that are basically impossible to live by.

my religion isn't like hers, my religion doesn't try to force me to eat a wafer that will make me violently ill in the name of worship.
Poliwanacraca
20-09-2006, 23:50
my religion isn't like hers, my religion doesn't try to force me to eat a wafer that will make me violently ill in the name of worship.

For what it's worth, I can't imagine a sane Catholic demanding that of anyone. It really sounds like your cousin is just kind of nuts. :p
The Psyker
20-09-2006, 23:53
my religion isn't like hers, my religion doesn't try to force me to eat a wafer that will make me violently ill in the name of worship.

Most diocee's wouldn't either, same as how they'll let an alcoholic priest/parishiner substitute wine for grape juice. However, you always get a few nutters that get upset by stupid shit and come up with supid shit to go off on in their diocee/parish, I'm looking at you Lincoln, sorry that was a bit OT, but yeah if she's getting that from church it has more to do with her diocee/parish being run by a nutter than the Church's official position.
Smunkeeville
20-09-2006, 23:54
For what it's worth, I can't imagine a sane Catholic demanding that of anyone. It really sounds like your cousin is just kind of nuts. :p

http://www.csaceliacs.org/CDintheNews/NJCoastStar080304.php
Ashmoria
20-09-2006, 23:56
oh, she comes up with new reasons every week, most of the time the vasectomy comes up as a really bad sin though.

if you dont mind my saying....

your cousin is a nut.
The Psyker
21-09-2006, 00:03
http://www.csaceliacs.org/CDintheNews/NJCoastStar080304.php

Well, I take back what I said about most diocees, I also seem to remember you posting that before, however just out of curioustity do you have any more recent info. since it seems she had managed to get at least someone on her side and I was wondering if she was making any progress.

"Bishop Smith explained that lay members of the Catholic Church who cannot receive either the low-gluten host or wine in the form of the Precious Blood may receive mustum - grape juice that has been partially fermented but does not contain the same alcohol content as most table wines. "Simulation of reception of the Holy Communion is never permitted," he wrote." it does seem that one alternative was offered, just skipping the host and just taking the wine, at least that seems to be what this is saying.
Poliwanacraca
21-09-2006, 00:04
http://www.csaceliacs.org/CDintheNews/NJCoastStar080304.php

Well, to be fair, the article seems to make it clear that the diocese would consider the child's Communion valid had she skipped the wafer and merely taken a sip of the Communion wine, which she doesn't actually have a health reason to refuse. I don't find that to be horribly unreasonable, although I'll agree that it's a less-than-ideal solution.
Smunkeeville
21-09-2006, 00:30
Well, to be fair, the article seems to make it clear that the diocese would consider the child's Communion valid had she skipped the wafer and merely taken a sip of the Communion wine, which she doesn't actually have a health reason to refuse. I don't find that to be horribly unreasonable, although I'll agree that it's a less-than-ideal solution.

I would suppose it would depend on who fermented the wine and the process involved, since it can contain gluten depending on the recipe for the wine. (trace amounts of gluten that is)
Utracia
21-09-2006, 01:13
There are rules many in the secular world reject. You have to be married. You have to be heterosexual. Other prohibitions include no sex with animals, no incest, no lust for people other than your spouse, no adultery (and that includes consensual threesomes and group sex) and no porn, rape or prostitution. You can’t harm the body. And you can’t have sex during a woman’s menstrual period.

Oh yeah, other than all that, go crazy! :rolleyes:

I don't know about you but I find a good number of things on that list to be morally reprehensible myself. Unless things like bestiality, incest and rape are seen as acceptable things now?
Free shepmagans
21-09-2006, 01:17
I don't know about you but I find a good number of things on that list to be morally reprehensible myself. Unless things like bestiality, incest and rape are seen as acceptable things now?

Rape is wrong and incest has horrible genetic consiquences. *nodnod*
Unlucky_and_unbiddable
21-09-2006, 01:29
It's just one of the best things so it should be held up high instead of used as some means to feeling good.

sex or cocks?
New Xero Seven
21-09-2006, 02:18
If more religious people had sex, I think it would make this world just a little bit better.
Sheni
21-09-2006, 02:19
I don't know about you but I find a good number of things on that list to be morally reprehensible myself. Unless things like bestiality, incest and rape are seen as acceptable things now?

Don't see any problem with bestiality, but its so uncommon that it shouldn't matter anyway.
Incest is only a problem if you have children through it, though again, it still is uncommon enough that it really shouldn't matter anyway.
Utracia
21-09-2006, 03:02
Rape is wrong and incest has horrible genetic consiquences. *nodnod*

I guess it is just a personal thing but I also find the idea of having sex with anything but another human to be totally immoral. If only that the animal can hardly consent to it. Incest to me is more than the consequences if there is offspring but the idea of incest is just wrong anyway you look at it.
Ice Hockey Players
21-09-2006, 15:51
it's wrong (according to her) to have sex if you aren't actively trying to reproduce, by making reproduction nearly impossible we are just having sex to fulfill our "lustful desires"

Uh-huh. Heard that one. A seemingly brainwashed couple shoving "natural family planning" down our throats at the weekend pre-Cana class my fiancee and I went to before getting married this December. Basically, any form of gratification other than a married hetersoexual couple who could very well conceive from the event is wrong. Granted, they said it was OK if you weren't trying to reproduce; all they said was that the probability had to be greater than zero.

I am also going to hell for listening to secular music,

Didn't think that was a Catholic thing...thought that was just a nutball thing...

for attending a Baptist church,

The old "worship my God or go to hell" routine. To be fair, the Catholics are both victims and perpetrators, considering lots of idiots don't consider Catholics to be Christians. Not sure where they got that idea.

for not taking my wafer with communion,

The priest at the church I am joining said that you can do one or the other, or both. Both are the body and/or blood of Christ, and as they are inseparable, one's as good as the other.

for not confessing to the priest,

And what Baptist church has confessionals, pray tell?

for driving an SUV,

Wow. I wonder if one of those Ten Commandments actually translates to "Thou shalt not drive a Sport Utility Vehicle."

and for eating meat whenever I feel like it.

Official Church doctrine states that meat is OK except on Fridays during Lent. Oh yeah, and Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. It was, back in the way, way olden times, verboten on Wednesdays, Fridays, AND Saturdays. Then it was just Fridays. Then Fridays during Lent. That, including Good Friday and Ash Wednesday, is eight days out of 365. Anyone who doesn't eat meat on other Fridays is being way harder on themselves than needed.

I am pretty sure almost all of that comes from her Catholic-ness, although probably not the SUV.

Wait, I got it! High gas prices are God's way of punishing SUV drivers, who, by virtue of paying through the nose for gas, have less money for the Church and are, therefore, separated from it and will go to hell. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I'll keep that one in mind.
Dempublicents1
21-09-2006, 16:53
Unless you happen to be gay. Not a lot of wiggle room there. Too bad for them, I suppose!

Yeah, well, it's still "conservative Christianity."

Of course, under their doctrine, you don't really need to add on the "no homosexual sex" part. After all, they say only heterosexuals can get married, and they already have the "only in marriage" part.
Dempublicents1
21-09-2006, 17:03
(btw she has 7 kids, they are 6,5, 4, 3, 2 (those are twins) 8 months, and she is pregnant again.

And she and her husband are super rich? If not, I'd say it's much more of a sin to bring that many children into the world, when there's probably no way you can support them and give them all the attention they deserve.

It does kind of remind me of the silly things people will say because of religion, though. My aunt and uncle (both on their second marriages) decided not to have children (mostly because my uncle didn't want any more than the three he had from his first marriage). My aunt would have been happy to have children of her own, but he didn't want to. However, he is Catholic, and thus said he could not get a vasectomy or use a condom. It was ok, however, for her to be on the pill, since she wasn't Catholic. When, for health reasons, she had to come off the pill, he insisted that she get a hysterectomy or tubal ligation (much, much more invasive a surgery), rather than him getting a vasectomy - since she wasn't Catholic. Never mind that it was him, a Catholic, insisting that they use some form of birth control. LOL.
And he's a really intelligent, wonderful person. This particular doctrine just led him to silliness.
Smunkeeville
21-09-2006, 17:09
And she and her husband are super rich? If not, I'd say it's much more of a sin to bring that many children into the world, when there's probably no way you can support them and give them all the attention they deserve.
they make more money than us, but they don't spend it as wisely, in fact they called the other day to inform me that their electric was going to be cut off and they wanted me to pay the bill (note not loan them the money, they just wanted me to pay it outright) I declined, but gave them the number to my church who might be able to help them out.

Am I cruel? probably, but I refuse to enable them any longer.

It does kind of remind me of the silly things people will say because of religion, though. My aunt and uncle (both on their second marriages) decided not to have children (mostly because my uncle didn't want any more than the three he had from his first marriage). My aunt would have been happy to have children of her own, but he didn't want to. However, he is Catholic, and thus said he could not get a vasectomy or use a condom. It was ok, however, for her to be on the pill, since she wasn't Catholic. When, for health reasons, she had to come off the pill, he insisted that she get a hysterectomy or tubal ligation (much, much more invasive a surgery), rather than him getting a vasectomy - since she wasn't Catholic. Never mind that it was him, a Catholic, insisting that they use some form of birth control. LOL.
And he's a really intelligent, wonderful person. This particular doctrine just led him to silliness.
maybe I can use the "I am not a catholic" on her then?

she is still mad because I didn't baptise my children, I figure they can go get baptised when they choose to, but then I believe different things about it than she does.
Dempublicents1
21-09-2006, 17:18
they make more money than us, but they don't spend it as wisely, in fact they called the other day to inform me that their electric was going to be cut off and they wanted me to pay the bill (note not loan them the money, they just wanted me to pay it outright) I declined, but gave them the number to my church who might be able to help them out.

Am I cruel? probably, but I refuse to enable them any longer.

No, they need to realize that they should take responsibility for their own actions.

maybe I can use the "I am not a catholic" on her then?

Apparently not. She seems to be someone who thinks that her doctrine does and should apply to everyone.

she is still mad because I didn't baptise my children, I figure they can go get baptised when they choose to, but then I believe different things about it than she does.

That's not a purely Catholic thing. Lutherans also believe that an unbaptised child will go to hell. My grandfather was so worried about my mother not having me christened that he set up a ceremony himself with the preacher at the church and tried to get my aunt to get me for the day so she could bring me to the church and get me baptised (she didn't, as it would have betrayed my parents' trust). He constantly told my mother that, if I died, I would go to hell.

When I was 7 or 8, I chose to be baptised - for myself.
Ilie
22-09-2006, 02:40
Yeah, well, it's still "conservative Christianity."

Of course, under their doctrine, you don't really need to add on the "no homosexual sex" part. After all, they say only heterosexuals can get married, and they already have the "only in marriage" part.

Oh, right. Cross-referencing. :cool:
Ilie
22-09-2006, 02:41
I don't know about you but I find a good number of things on that list to be morally reprehensible myself. Unless things like bestiality, incest and rape are seen as acceptable things now?

Yeah, those are pretty bad.
Piratnea
22-09-2006, 02:43
Didn't read the thread.

I just wanted to let you know that when I read the topic I spit out my drink laughing to hard. I just wasn't expecting that when I refreshed my browser.
The Psyker
22-09-2006, 03:15
That's not a purely Catholic thing. Lutherans also believe that an unbaptised child will go to hell. My grandfather was so worried about my mother not having me christened that he set up a ceremony himself with the preacher at the church and tried to get my aunt to get me for the day so she could bring me to the church and get me baptised (she didn't, as it would have betrayed my parents' trust). He constantly told my mother that, if I died, I would go to hell.

When I was 7 or 8, I chose to be baptised - for myself.

Catholics don't believe that un baptised babies go to hell, the Church use to maintain that they went to Limbo, but that doctrine has recently been revised away so now they probably go to purgatory to atone for their sins, although being that they are a baby and haven't commited any of their own it would probably be a short stay.
BackwoodsSquatches
22-09-2006, 09:12
I don't know, does it? There was a part where God told...was it Abraham?...to father a child, and it referred to him "spilling his seed" and it was this passage that people used in order to ban self-gratification, among other things.

It is better to spill thy seed in the belly of a whore, than upon the ground?
Compulsive Depression
22-09-2006, 12:42
It is better to spill thy seed in the belly of a whore, than upon the ground?
Especially indoors as it's a bugger to get come off the carpet.
Ashmoria
22-09-2006, 15:20
That's not a purely Catholic thing. Lutherans also believe that an unbaptised child will go to hell. My grandfather was so worried about my mother not having me christened that he set up a ceremony himself with the preacher at the church and tried to get my aunt to get me for the day so she could bring me to the church and get me baptised (she didn't, as it would have betrayed my parents' trust). He constantly told my mother that, if I died, I would go to hell.

When I was 7 or 8, I chose to be baptised - for myself.

my aunt was so distraught that i didnt get my son baptised that she (im pretty sure) snuck him over to the kitchen sink and did it herself. at least she never brought the subject up again. is it not possible for lutherans to baptise babies on their own in this same way?

dont baptists wait until you are 7 or older before baptism anyway? that way the child can be involved in the decision. for catholics its a proxy thing with your god parents making vows for you. that way IF it turns out that the unbaptised go to hell you have it covered. the sacrament of confirmation is when the now-grown child affirms that she agrees with the vows that were taken on her behalf. it makes you a full member of the catholic church.

personally i dont find one system better than the other.
Smunkeeville
22-09-2006, 15:22
dont baptists wait until you are 7 or older before baptism anyway?

you have to make a profession of faith, basically you have to decide for yourself that you want to make the commitment to be a Christian, there isn't an "age limit" so much as a "we want you to be old enough to understand and make the choice for yourself" thing.
Aelosia
22-09-2006, 15:42
it's wrong (according to her) to have sex if you aren't actively trying to reproduce, by making reproduction nearly impossible we are just having sex to fulfill our "lustful desires"

I am also going to hell for listening to secular music, for attending a Baptist church, for not taking my wafer with communion, for not confessing to the priest, for driving an SUV, and for eating meat whenever I feel like it.

I am pretty sure almost all of that comes from her Catholic-ness, although probably not the SUV.

Oh, wow. You know a catholic nutcase. I know a few christians that fall into the same category. Let's call it even!

Now seriously. Most catholics do not think that way. Fanatics and fundamentalists exist everywhere. Your cousin is following the doctrine of the Opus Dei, who are mostly defined as fanatics by our standard. I'm a catholic and I do not think that way, and so most the ones I know, that are an awful lot...Well, perhaps the SUV thing, but maybe if you pray enough that can be forgiven :D
Dempublicents1
22-09-2006, 16:41
Catholics don't believe that un baptised babies go to hell, the Church use to maintain that they went to Limbo, but that doctrine has recently been revised away so now they probably go to purgatory to atone for their sins, although being that they are a baby and haven't commited any of their own it would probably be a short stay.

The Catholic Church once maintained than anyone who was unbaptised went to Hell. Then it was Limbo. Then it was purgatory. There are still Catholics who believe all three.

As for the not sinning part, much of Catholic dogma surrounding Original Sin came from Augustine, who wrote that babies sin when they cry for food (since we wouldn't "suffer that behavior" in an adult). It always sounded like he was pulling stuff out of his rearend to me, but the Church adopted the majority of Augustine's theology.


my aunt was so distraught that i didnt get my son baptised that she (im pretty sure) snuck him over to the kitchen sink and did it herself. at least she never brought the subject up again. is it not possible for lutherans to baptise babies on their own in this same way?

I'm pretty sure it isn't actually possible under Catholic doctrine, as only the ordained can carry out the sacraments, but I guess if it made her feel better....

dont baptists wait until you are 7 or older before baptism anyway? that way the child can be involved in the decision.

Generally, I think so. I was baptised in a Baptist Church - and the decision was completely my own.

for catholics its a proxy thing with your god parents making vows for you. that way IF it turns out that the unbaptised go to hell you have it covered. the sacrament of confirmation is when the now-grown child affirms that she agrees with the vows that were taken on her behalf. it makes you a full member of the catholic church.

Indeed. Interestingly enough, if that person decides that they want to be baptised under their own volition - it is considered heretical by the Catholic Church. One can only be baptised once, even if it is done before you can even think to consider it.

personally i dont find one system better than the other.

I do. I find it abhorrent that anyone would take it upon themsleves to make religious decisions for another. I would never have a child christened, because I don't believe that their religious persuasion is my decision to make.

Of course, I don't believe that crying babies are sinning either. Sin, I believe, requires intent to sin. A baby certainly isn't trying to do something wrong. And, up until a certain point, neither is a young child - who can't truly understand the ramifications of their actions.
Ashmoria
22-09-2006, 18:40
I'm pretty sure it isn't actually possible under Catholic doctrine, as only the ordained can carry out the sacraments, but I guess if it made her feel better....


any good catholic can baptise anyone requesting it (or not in the case of an infant) in an emergency. it would be very wrong to suggest that someone should have to go to hell because they couldnt get to a priest quickly enough.

as to whether or not my son's unofficial baptism "took" i guess thats up to god.
Dempublicents1
22-09-2006, 18:44
any good catholic can baptise anyone requesting it (or not in the case of an infant) in an emergency. it would be very wrong to suggest that someone should have to go to hell because they couldnt get to a priest quickly enough.

Well, there are many things in the Catholic doctrine that I think would be very wrong to suggest, but they are suggested nonetheless. The very idea that a baby crying because he is hungry is a sin, to me, seems very wrong to suggest - yet it was adopted along with the rest of Augustine's ideas. The very idea of denying someone - anyone - communion is, to me, absolutely wrong to suggest, but it is part and parcel of Catholic dogma. And while doctrine on this might have changed, I'm fairly certain that this was exactly the doctrine at one point.

as to whether or not my son's unofficial baptism "took" i guess thats up to god.

Indeed.
Eris Rising
22-09-2006, 18:59
Most diocee's wouldn't either, same as how they'll let an alcoholic priest/parishiner substitute wine for grape juice.

I assume you mean substitute grape juice for wine (Ok, since you're an alchoholic we'll let you have wine instead of grape juice!)
Dempublicents1
22-09-2006, 19:02
I assume you mean substitute grape juice for wine (Ok, since you're an alchoholic we'll let you have wine instead of grape juice!)

Hehe, church-sponsored temptation! =)

Seriously though, even with the transubstantiation doctrine, the logic leading to the idea that God somehow *can't* make grape juice or a ricecake become the blood and body of Christ totally escapes me. In some places in the world, the host is pineapple and pineapple juice, or coconut and coconut milk, or (in a pinch) coffee and doughnuts.
Smunkeeville
22-09-2006, 19:30
Hehe, church-sponsored temptation! =)

Seriously though, even with the transubstantiation doctrine, the logic leading to the idea that God somehow *can't* make grape juice or a ricecake become the blood and body of Christ totally escapes me. In some places in the world, the host is pineapple and pineapple juice, or coconut and coconut milk, or (in a pinch) coffee and doughnuts.

yeah, it's like my family believes that you shouldn't get cremated because when the Bible says "the dead in Christ shall rise" that you wouldn't have a body....:headbang:

they believe that God created the entire world out of nothing and suddenly some ashes show up and He is all like "damn it!"
Dempublicents1
22-09-2006, 19:33
yeah, it's like my family believes that you shouldn't get cremated because when the Bible says "the dead in Christ shall rise" that you wouldn't have a body....:headbang:

they believe that God created the entire world out of nothing and suddenly some ashes show up and He is all like "damn it!"

Hehe. I've heard that before, but it always makes me kind of giggle. Are they opposed to organ donation as well? Do they think that God will restore the normal degeneration of your tissue, or will you be walking around all zombie-like?
Smunkeeville
22-09-2006, 19:36
Hehe. I've heard that before, but it always makes me kind of giggle. Are they opposed to organ donation as well? Do they think that God will restore the normal degeneration of your tissue, or will you be walking around all zombie-like?

oh, I don't know, they are nuts, I can't get anything logical out of them at all.
Turquoise Days
22-09-2006, 19:38
Hehe. I've heard that before, but it always makes me kind of giggle. Are they opposed to organ donation as well? Do they think that God will restore the normal degeneration of your tissue, or will you be walking around all zombie-like?

Heh, where's that zombie jesus quote...
Grave_n_idle
22-09-2006, 19:42
yeah, it's like my family believes that you shouldn't get cremated because when the Bible says "the dead in Christ shall rise" that you wouldn't have a body....:headbang:

they believe that God created the entire world out of nothing and suddenly some ashes show up and He is all like "damn it!"

My in-laws get their bodies preserved and buried in sealed vaults....

(Because, of course, when God resurrects you, he needs you to have the same human body... despite the fact that you'll be pickled and concreted in...)

There is just a kind of logic you can't argue with.
Dempublicents1
22-09-2006, 19:47
My in-laws get their bodies preserved and buried in sealed vaults....

(Because, of course, when God resurrects you, he needs you to have the same human body... despite the fact that you'll be pickled and concreted in...)

There is just a kind of logic you can't argue with.

It worked for the Egyptians, right? Of course, they preserved all those organs except the brain. Whoopsie! =)
Utracia
22-09-2006, 21:22
Hehe. I've heard that before, but it always makes me kind of giggle. Are they opposed to organ donation as well? Do they think that God will restore the normal degeneration of your tissue, or will you be walking around all zombie-like?

No one said the fundamental Christians have to make any sense. :p