NationStates Jolt Archive

Hey NSG!
I have to represent the USA at a Mock United Nations thing quite soon. Problem is, I'm about as Anti-America (sorry) as they come. I think that's because I only ever hear the European/Canadian/Australian/Rest of the Free World's opinion.

So I'm asking all the Americans here, can you make me Patriotic to the U.S. of A.?

If you want to represent the US, your best bet is to focus on several things. First you might want to emphasize economic liberalization as an important thing for the UN to focus on. Second you'll want to focus on the countries the US doesn't like, specifically Iran and North Korea. Thirdly, focus on the development of stability in certain regions.

Hey NSG!
I have to represent the USA at a Mock United Nations thing quite soon. Problem is, I'm about as Anti-America (sorry) as they come. I think that's because I only ever hear the European/Canadian/Australian/Rest of the Free World's opinion.

So I'm asking all the Americans here, can you make me Patriotic to the U.S. of A.?
Why on earth would you want to become patriotic to the US?

Its schools are shite, it has vast social problems, such as the enormous income disparity all over the country, an ineffective police force, they spy on their own people and try to make their schoolchildren into introverted communist-hating drones.

Not nice.

Thirdly, focus on the development of stability in certain regions.
I.e. the installation of capitalist dictatorships where socialist democracies once existed, right?

Why on earth would you want to become patriotic to the US?

Its schools are shite, it has vast social problems, such as the enormous income disparity all over the country, an ineffective police force, they spy on their own people and try to make their schoolchildren into introverted communist-hating drones.

Not nice.

is it all the rain dripping through your thatched roof that makes you so bitter and cock-eyed ?

you make such absurdly ignorant and biased statements you're making yourself invalid, irrelevant and boring beyond comprehension.

Do something to improve yourself-maybe you wont be so bitter.

Hey NSG!
I have to represent the USA at a Mock United Nations thing quite soon. Problem is, I'm about as Anti-America (sorry) as they come. I think that's because I only ever hear the European/Canadian/Australian/Rest of the Free World's opinion.

So I'm asking all the Americans here, can you make me Patriotic to the U.S. of A.?

Get yourself in a mindset that your views are THE best views to have.

Denounce everything the others do. Always be on the offensive. Don't get dragged into defending your actions.

Speak loudly.

Less regulations is good. So is lower taxes. Their tariffs are bad, your tarifss merely protect your industry.

Don't acknowledge any failing on your part. If you get painted in a corner : They didn't understand you correctly, that's not what you meant.

End with "God bless America".

(sorry to US citizen, but that's how I view your politicains from here.)

Less reglementation is good.

Might that be a bit of franglais?

Get yourself in a mindset that your views are THE best views to have.

Denounce everything the others do. Always be on the offensive. Don't get dragged into defending your actions.

Speak loudly.

Less reglementation is good. So is lower taxes. Their tariffs are bad, your tarifss merely protect your industry.

Don't acknowledge any failing on your part. If you get painted in a corner : They didn't understand you correctly, that's not what you meant.

End with "God bless America".

(sorry to US citizen, but that's how I view your politicains from here.)

So, basically act like every other politician from just about any country, ever?
Of course, US politicians tend to be less subtle about it, but its the difference between, "Your wrong, Im right," and "I am inclined to disagree with your stated opinion on the subject of human rights."

Except for the God bless America part of course.

As to becoming more patriotic...
Listen to the American National Anthem in your sleep. It contains subliminal messaging that will gradually wipe out any loyalty whatsoever to your current country.

I guess this means you dont want some Canuck's opinion... :p

Well... TS! You're gettin' it anyway!

I think that if you're going to try and portray an American, you need to consider this:

You believe that your land is the land of freedom, liberty and opportunity, and that people like you for your ideals.

You believe that you have the best intentions, but, they don't always work out.

Your nations is foremost in your heart, even if it isn't popular.

You've got fond memories of many bygone July 4th celebrations and you speak of how the day represents the freedom from the oppressive rule of an imperialistic nation.

You believe in political freedom and that anyone can be president.

You pour your heart into the Pledge of Alligience because it sybbolises your respect for your nation.

You may not have the best education in the world, but, at least it's homegrown.

You can say whatever the shit you want because it's America, damnit!

You love your state, and you've been to Canada or Mexico several times.

Disney World/Land is one of your best childhood memories.

Apple pie is a favourite dessert.

You think the rest of the English speaking world is crazy because of its spellings.

You know infinite redneck and blond jokes and can always get a good laugh.

You believe in the ideology of the 60s.

You believe in supporting the troops.

You believe in separation of church and state, even though you have steadfast religious beliefs and a strong faith in the existence of God.

European in need of help from Americans...

So what else is new?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Might that be a bit of franglais?

might.

I blame lack of sleep. Fixed.

So, basically act like every other politician from just about any country, ever?
Of course, US politicians tend to be less subtle about it, but its the difference between, "Your wrong, Im right," and "I am inclined to disagree with your stated opinion on the subject of human rights."

Except for the God bless America part of course.

As to becoming more patriotic...
Listen to the American National Anthem in your sleep. It contains subliminal messaging that will gradually wipe out any loyalty whatsoever to your current country.

Exactly!

Hey NSG!
I have to represent the USA at a Mock United Nations thing quite soon. Problem is, I'm about as Anti-America (sorry) as they come. I think that's because I only ever hear the European/Canadian/Australian/Rest of the Free World's opinion.

So I'm asking all the Americans here, can you make me Patriotic to the U.S. of A.?You're not supposed to represent the average citizen of a country, you're representing the administrations representative. Research the U.S.'s position on the issues you're debating in MUN. Articles, State Department, and CIA World Factbook are your best sources, not NSG.

So what else is new?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

*L* I passed on the same remark as I've already had all the screeching I can take for one day.

You love your state, and you've been to Canada or Mexico several times.

You think the rest of the English speaking world is crazy because of its spellings.

You believe in supporting the troops.

Am I not American? These are the only ones I agree with. I would agree with the last one, except for the whole "you are religious" part.

in my observations and reading, the most fundamental difference between the politics of the US and Europe (which you'll be familiar with i guess) is that the US is much less focused on the class divide. their politics isn't so much split on the left-right scale, but the authoritarian/libertarian scale, as everything boils down to a question of liberty and freedom. or, at least, that's the primary consideration and playing ground for politics in the country.

in Europe (for any americans reading this) we are generally far more obsessed with economic factors, class and relative wealth than freedom. obviously we care about the latter, but it rarely comes into question in the focal point of a debate unless the issue is specifically about rights/freedoms/etc.
in the states, economic inequality is fine - who cares? - as long as everyone is free to pursue their own paths to happiness.

and of course, in the states, generally speaking, money = success = happy. the book i'm currently reading is facinating in going back to the nation's colonial and puritanical founding and tracing elements that have lead the country to be the way it is today, and i could go into some depth about the conclusions the book draws, but i'm supposed to be working :P


also don't forget about the constitution. big important, that.




edit: but i'm a european and i'm talking in real generalisations. i may also be talking out of my ass ;)

Hey NSG!
I have to represent the USA at a Mock United Nations thing quite soon. Problem is, I'm about as Anti-America (sorry) as they come. I think that's because I only ever hear the European/Canadian/Australian/Rest of the Free World's opinion.

So I'm asking all the Americans here, can you make me Patriotic to the U.S. of A.?

Its quite simple.
forget about all the economic stuff, dictatorship stuff, the freedom stuff, even the Bush stuff and remember without the US government donating to the UN world food program, 1/2 of the developing world would starve to death within 3 months.

And dont mention the US's role in the 2004 tsunami relief efforts or the Pakistan earthquake relief/rescue efforts.

El-Supremo Boris

Its quite simple.
forget about all the economic stuff, dictatorship stuff, the freedom stuff, even the Bush stuff and remember without the US government donating to the UN world food program, 1/2 of the developing world would starve to death within 3 months.

And dont mention the US's role in the 2004 tsunami relief efforts or the Pakistan earthquake relief/rescue efforts.

El-Supremo Boris

That's the sorta stuff I need to be hearing...
I've just found out I'll be representing the USA in the Security Council.
And we'll be talking about Afghanistan and the Conflict bewteen Israel and Lebanon.

Oh dear.

Anyone want to throw me some points to make me support the US' actions in the Middle East? Aside from "They are dictatorships" (as the Afghan dude is abit dictatorial).

americans arent bad people at all. actually quite the contrary. Are you anti-american government or are you anti american people. that might have an impact on how patriotic we can make you.

Why on earth would you want to become patriotic to the US?

Its schools are shite, it has vast social problems, such as the enormous income disparity all over the country, an ineffective police force, they spy on their own people and try to make their schoolchildren into introverted communist-hating drones.

Not nice.


wow, EVERYBODY...ATTENTION PLEASE...


this is the best example ive ever seen of somebody who has made an uninformed decision. he is english, therefore he doesnt know what its like to be an american. I myself am an american therefore i know what its like to live in america. This guy knows shit about america other than what he reads in far left bias newspapers. (or just by what he makes up off the top of his head). My school is one of the best in the country with over 93% graduation rate. (that is good no matter where you go) In terms of vast social problems, he's right we have social problems, but we're certainly not on the verge of civil war, and we dont have riots every time somebody bashes a religion. Our police force is one of the best equiped ones in the world, every city is well equiped to handle any emergency, ive never been spied on and neither has anyone ive ever known and for the record, the majority of my teachers are liberals who would sooner try to get us to revert to communism rather than teach us to stay away from it.

for the record people, next time you decide to make a stupid uninformed coment, stop, think and rationalize.

americans arent bad people at all. actually quite the contrary. Are you anti-american government or are you anti american people. that might have an impact on how patriotic we can make you.

American Government. Some Americans are really sound.

Just take a lot of water balloons with you and then say whatever you want. Those who don't agree with you, you threaten with the water balloons. Unless they have water balloons of their own, of course.

Throw a water balloon to someone from time to time just to make a point. Or for fun.

is it all the rain dripping through your thatched roof that makes you so bitter and cock-eyed ?
No, I have a perfectly excellent tiled roof, thanks.
you make such absurdly ignorant and biased statements you're making yourself invalid irrelevant and boring beyond comprehension.
Absurdly biased - yes
Absurdly ignorant - 'fraid not.
Unless I was set upon by a group of Busheviks, my biased opinion wouldn't make me an invalid, no.
As to irrelevant - not for this thread
As to boring beyond comprehension - it's all in the eye of the beholder
Do something to improve yourself-maybe you wont be so bitter.
"A dislike of the actions of the US doesn't stem from a geniune dislike of what they do, it's a self-confidence issue", eh?

No. In a word.

Followup:

Here's some good advice. (http://www.un.org/cyberschoolbus/modelun/prep_tips.html)

Don't bother with patriotism. It's irrelevant for MUN conferences.

Why on earth would you want to become patriotic to the US?

Its schools are shite, it has vast social problems, such as the enormous income disparity all over the country, an ineffective police force, they spy on their own people and try to make their schoolchildren into introverted communist-hating drones.

Not nice.

Wow that was pretty stupid even for you.

Just take a lot of water balloons with you and then say whatever you want. Those who don't agree with you, you threaten with the water balloons. Unless they have water balloons of their own, of course.

Throw a water balloon to someone from time to time just to make a point. Or for fun.

hehe...

be sure to throw a bunch of water baloons at whoever has the most pens. then take them ;)

the book i'm currently reading is facinating in going back to the nation's colonial and puritanical founding and tracing elements that have lead the country to be the way it is today, and i could go into some depth about the conclusions the book draws, but i'm supposed to be working :P


Grrrrrr the Puritans. I really hate that myth we keep teaching today.

Ahh well......

Get to work or I'll put the lash to your backside!

wow, EVERYBODY...ATTENTION PLEASE...


this is the best example ive ever seen of somebody who has made an uninformed decision.
Haha!

Incorrect, my Persian-baiting friend!

Anti-Americanism isn't a decision, it's a lifestyle choice.

And I'm pretty well-informed considering my nationality.
he is english, therefore he doesnt know what its like to be an american.
I've been. I was nonplussed. I will freely admit that
I myself am an american therefore i know what its like to live in america.
Have you ever been outside of the US and hence have anything to actually compare it to?
This guy knows shit about america other than what he reads in far left bias newspapers. (or just by what he makes up off the top of his head).
I know many "liberals" in the US very well, (inc. the lead Dean of Rochester University), as well as watching US news (CNN, even though that's quite right-wing it's more watchable than FOX, the only alternative for Sky viewers) to try and get a more realistic picture of what's really happening.
My school is one of the best in the country with over 93% graduation rate.
The UK average is 98%. And that's the average.
In terms of vast social problems, he's right we have social problems, but we're certainly not on the verge of civil war
I'd like for you to point out to me when this was ever even inferred from in what I said.
and we dont have riots every time somebody bashes a religion.
Indeed, because it's considered "un-patriotic" and the police would tear-gas you.
Our police force is one of the best equiped ones in the world
That doesn't actually make them any good. It just makes them well-equipped...

Even the British Police are better, and they're not too good to be honest.
every city is well equiped to handle any emergency
Tell that to New Orleans!
ive never been spied on and neither has anyone ive ever known and for the record
On the other hand, you are what... seventeen? (at a guess)
the majority of my teachers are liberals who would sooner try to get us to revert to communism rather than teach us to stay away from it.
You cannot "revert" to communism for two reasons - the first : The US has never even been socialist, and secondly : If you knew what communism really is, you'd also know that there is no state better for mankind to be in.

And the majority of your teachers are lefties, eh?

But on the other hand, at school you have what... the Flag Pledge (do you still do that?) and from what I've seen, your history lessons seem to be skewed towards where the US has been victorious in the past, rather than giving a proper, balanced picture of the whole of your history.
for the record people, next time you decide to make a stupid uninformed coment, stop, think and rationalize.
That would really invalidate it from being a stupid uninformed comment and hence you couldn't really challenge me on this issue, no?

And where would the fun in that be?

Why on earth would you want to become patriotic to the US?

Its schools are shite, it has vast social problems, such as the enormous income disparity all over the country, an ineffective police force, they spy on their own people and try to make their schoolchildren into introverted communist-hating drones.

Not nice.

Its been said before, but I think it needs to be said again.
That was the dumbest comment I have ever read.
And thats saying quite a bit.

Its been said before, but I think it needs to be said again.
That was the dumbest comment I have ever read.
And thats saying quite a bit.Not been on NSG long, or are you a puppet?

Haha!

Incorrect, my Persian-baiting friend!

Anti-Americanism isn't a decision, it's a lifestyle choice.

And I'm pretty well-informed considering my nationality.

Prove it. Your past and present comments say otherwise.


Have you ever been outside of the US and hence have anything to actually compare it to?

In my case yes.

India, Singapore, GB, the ME, Italy, Mexico, Canada, Sweden and France.


I know many "liberals" in the US very well, (inc. the lead Dean of Rochester University), as well as watching US news (CNN, even though that's quite right-wing it's more watchable than FOX, the only alternative for Sky viewers) to try and get a more realistic picture of what's really happening.

Wow. So what is that 10, 20, hell I will give you 50. You sure pegged everybody. :rolleyes:


The UK average is 98%. And that's the average.

And how many languages do you have to contend with? We have several and deal with English as a second language. How many people are in the UK and how many people are in the US?


And the majority of your teachers are lefties, eh?

What was that about being well informed?


But on the other hand, at school you have what... the Flag Pledge (do you still do that?) and from what I've seen, your history lessons seem to be skewed towards where the US has been victorious in the past, rather than giving a proper, balanced picture of the whole of your history.

What was that about being well informed?


That would really invalidate it from being a stupid uninformed comment and hence you couldn't really challenge me on this issue, no?

And where would the fun in that be?

Well you made a rather stupid comment so what do you expect in return?

"You cannot "revert" to communism for two reasons - the first : The US has never even been socialist, and secondly : If you knew what communism really is, you'd also know that there is no state better for mankind to be in." Yootopia

Once again you prove your stupidity. Communisn the perfect state for mankind. Well your right original Marxist communism in theory is perfect for mankind. However in reality its the stupidest form of government because it demmands to much from indivduials and assumes those in power will always do the right thing. You dont hand some one all this power and expect them to do the right thing. And while unfortunate you cant expect any one to do anything to for their country if their isnt at least a little personal gain to be had. Its part of human nature. Which is why on paper Communism looks heavenly but in reality it is doomed to failure get your head out of the sand.

Why on earth would you want to become patriotic to the US?

Its schools are shite, it has vast social problems, such as the enormous income disparity all over the country, an ineffective police force, they spy on their own people and try to make their schoolchildren into introverted communist-hating drones.

Not nice.

I live in England and I have never been to the USA (I have been to canada though) and even I know that that is a horrendously absurd and ignorant statement.

And I'm pretty well-informed considering my nationality.

What, Euro-American? Or as you call it "English" (I'm sorry England!).

I know many "liberals" in the US very well, (inc. the lead Dean of Rochester University), as well as watching US news (CNN, even though that's quite right-wing it's more watchable than FOX, the only alternative for Sky viewers) to try and get a more realistic picture of what's really happening.

The UK average is 98%. And that's the average.
Repugnancy is fun.

Indeed, because it's considered "un-patriotic" and the police would tear-gas you.

Unlike the UK, where you'd just be beaten by Chavs. And no, the Police in America DON'T tear gas protesters. Maybe you're thinking of the British Forces in Northern Ireland? No?

Even the British Police are better, and they're not too good to be honest.

That's just a flat out lie. The police in America actually have the firepower to COMMAND respect, not just "Ask for it politely but firmly".

You cannot "revert" to communism for two reasons - the first : The US has never even been socialist, and secondly : If you knew what communism really is, you'd also know that there is no state better for mankind to be in.

That's true. But Communism is unachievable. The Americans realise this. That's why they stopped the U.K. from falling to Soviet forces.

But on the other hand, at school you have what... the Flag Pledge (do you still do that?) and from what I've seen, your history lessons seem to be skewed towards where the US has been victorious in the past, rather than giving a proper, balanced picture of the whole of your history.

Because that NEVER happens in England...

I think I'm ready to be the U.S. :)

I think I'm ready to be the U.S. :)
What issues are you debating?

American police are much better than European. They are better equiped and trained. Do you think the kind of mass scale riots that happened in France could happen in America. not at this time buddy. and as for teargass when was the last time you saw american cops use teargass in a riot Vietnam the civil rights movement that was deccades ago.

What issues are you debating?

Israel/Lebanon - Middle East Roadmap?
Afghanistan - banging our heads against a brick wall?
Somalia - Another Rwanda in the making?

The first and second should be alot of fun, but the third will be a massive downer... Especially as the UN just let the Rwandians die the last time there was a genocide in Africa...

Israel/Lebanon - Middle East Roadmap?
Afghanistan - banging our heads against a brick wall?
Somalia - Another Rwanda in the making?

The first and second should be alot of fun, but the third will be a massive downer... Especially as the UN just let the Rwandians die the last time there was a genocide in Africa...So research into the conflicts. Check what US diplomats have done on the issues, what they're supportive of. Is this an SC or a GA debate?

What really helps is to know what the others did, preferably better than the people representing them.
It's always fun to get someone by saying "Um, why would you say that if you signed treaty X that says the exact opposite?"

Israel/Lebanon - Middle East Roadmap?
Afghanistan - banging our heads against a brick wall?
Somalia - Another Rwanda in the making?

The first and second should be alot of fun, but the third will be a massive downer... Especially as the UN just let the Rwandians die the last time there was a genocide in Africa...


Somalia? Don't you mean the Sudan as in Dafur?

The UN did blow it in Rwanda. Well Canada excluded and for the matter Belgium which I believe had medical people there.

Israel/Lebanon - Middle East Roadmap?
Afghanistan - banging our heads against a brick wall?
Somalia - Another Rwanda in the making?

The first and second should be alot of fun, but the third will be a massive downer... Especially as the UN just let the Rwandians die the last time there was a genocide in Africa...

Not true the French sent troops. They didnt really do much though. In fact the Hootu government thought they were there to help them. ok so i guess its true.

So research into the conflicts. Check what US diplomats have done on the issues, what they're supportive of. Is this an SC or a GA debate?

What really helps is to know what the others did, preferably better than the people representing them.
It's always fun to get someone by saying "Um, why would you say that if you signed treaty X that says the exact opposite?"

It's the SC. And yeah, the second part *is* fun...

Worse thing was a debate about nations having Monarchs.
The Delegate from France went up and complained about how the UK (me) was treating my Royal Family. I made a PoO and pointed out that France had... executed theirs...

Dam sight close to a standing ovation...

Not true the French sent troops. They didnt really do much though. In fact the Hootu government thought they were there to help them. ok so i guess its true.

Well they did but that was after the killing was pretty well over. Best estimates are that they saved 10-15000 lives.

Hey NSG!
I have to represent the USA at a Mock United Nations thing quite soon. Problem is, I'm about as Anti-America (sorry) as they come. I think that's because I only ever hear the European/Canadian/Australian/Rest of the Free World's opinion.

So I'm asking all the Americans here, can you make me Patriotic to the U.S. of A.?
You must first rewire your opinions to put the right to private property above the right to life. That is the primum of most American political thought.

It's the SC. And yeah, the second part *is* fun...

Worse thing was a debate about nations having Monarchs.
The Delegate from France went up and complained about how the UK (me) was treating my Royal Family. I made a PoO and pointed out that France had... executed theirs...

Dam sight close to a standing ovation...Just make sure you don't only know your own position but also those of the other delegates so you can rebuff them if they're falsely in your disfavor and gloat silently when they act against their interests in your favor. With only 15 other countries, that shouldn't be too hard.

In terms of vast social problems, he's right we have social problems, but we're certainly not on the verge of civil war, and we dont have riots every time somebody bashes a religion.
Neither does Britain. He wasn't saying America is the worst, obviously Pakistan's social problems are worse.

Our police force is one of the best equiped ones in the world,
Proves that all the equipment in the world can't keep crime rates from spiralling out of control.

every city is well equiped to handle any emergency,
Like New Orleans?

ive never been spied on and neither has anyone ive ever known and for the record
The idea of spying on someone is so that they don't know they're being watched.

the majority of my teachers are liberals who would sooner try to get us to revert to communism rather than teach us to stay away from it.

That's bullshit, liberalism is closer to conservatism than to communism.

Wow that was pretty stupid even for you.
I don't see how it's inaccurate. Well, the last sentence about communism might be outdated but not the rest. 30,000 gun murders annually may be a fact of life for you, but not for us.

Do you think the kind of mass scale riots that happened in France could happen in America.
Los Angeles, 1992?

You must first rewire your opinions to put the right to private property above the right to life. That is the primum of most American political thought.

Bullshit. Your not allowed to kill some one over property. Only if your life is legitametly in danger is it accepted as self defense or some one elses life. not over some piece of property

Los Angeles, 1992?

Wasnt even close to whats been happening in Europe at least in some European countries. and that was 14 years ago not very recent.

*sighs*

Jsut reread what I'd written - sorry everyone... quite pissed at the mo (drunk wise) and I can't believe I said something so stupid...

*sighs*-

(not lying about the knowing people, though, I actually do).

*edits*

Although some of it is true, mind... just not a fair majority of what I said... what the fuck was I on about?

Just make sure you don't only know your own position but also those of the other delegates so you can rebuff them if they're falsely in your disfavor and gloat silently when they act against their interests in your favor. With only 15 other countries, that shouldn't be too hard.

I will. Thanks for all the advice btw.

last I checked CNN is definately not right wing.

That point alone just shows how misinformed you are.

I find it a bit humorous how some of you Europeans claim to know so much more about America than us Americans.

If your countries are so "Great" then how come your governments are constantly turning your backs on terrorism and If you are so Great, then how come you aren't a super power.

As far as I can see is that you have your share of racism, political correctness, your share of the poor, polution, hell how come any pics of London you see tons of smog oh wait that must be low clouds. okay.

You guys are awesome, the BEST, man I wish we were more like you. Must be nice to live in the only part of the world thats Perfect.

Bullshit. Your not allowed to kill some one over property. Only if your life is legitametly in danger is it accepted as self defense or some one elses life. not over some piece of property
I've heard of buckets of cases where someone was defending their home or car or some such and they shot the criminal. The usual American reaction is something like "well, it's a pity he got shot but hey you shouldn't steal cars." It's disgusting.

That attitude also leads to their economic ideology and foreign policy.

last I checked CNN is definately not right wing.

By your standards... if you're like the typical American conservative you're near fascist.

I've heard of buckets of cases where someone was defending their home or car or some such and they shot the criminal. The usual American reaction is something like "well, it's a pity he got shot but hey you shouldn't steal cars." It's disgusting.

That attitude also leads to their economic ideology and foreign policy.

Some people may feel that way but the shooter will regret it in court. Excessive force isn't just a term for police officers. If someone is stealing your car and you draw a gun and shoot the theif without being threatened yourself you are in some deep shit.

I've heard of buckets of cases where someone was defending their home or car or some such and they shot the criminal. The usual American reaction is something like "well, it's a pity he got shot but hey you shouldn't steal cars." It's disgusting.

That attitude also leads to their economic ideology and foreign policy.

Usually the criminal gets killed when the person is shooting to wound to protect their property. And typically when that happens, the shooter gets a manslaughter conviction. But how is the typical American attitude disgusting? If you don't want to endanger yourself by having a civil or criminal penalty thrown at you, you probably shouldn't break the law.

I've heard of buckets of cases where someone was defending their home or car or some such and they shot the criminal. The usual American reaction is something like "well, it's a pity he got shot but hey you shouldn't steal cars." It's disgusting.

That attitude also leads to their economic ideology and foreign policy.

While that american policy is slightly dodgy. I wouldn't go so far into saying it is "discusting", thats a bit of an overeaction.

If we are in Fear of Life or Property we have the right to defend it with all means necessary. It's the Law and damnit It should be the Law.

If it wasn't a Law then the dang criminals would be overwelmimg. If the criminals know it's the law it makes one hell of deterence.

As for those that want gun control laws.....I think good ole Hank Jr said it best....."I'll gladly hand you my gun if you take them from the criminals first"

Amen and God Bless America!!

last I checked CNN is definately not right wing.
It certainly is, actually.
That point alone just shows how misinformed you are.
It's right-wing on the European political axis.
I find it a bit humorous how some of you Europeans claim to know so much more about America than us Americans.
Pardon?
If your countries are so "Great" then how come your governments are constantly turning your backs on terrorism
We don't. We just accept it as something that occurs and we try to fight the causes rather than just bombing people. Because we've been dealing with it for years and we know what does and doesn't work.
and If you are so Great, then how come you aren't a super power.
Because we weren't miles away from the Luftwaffe, like the USA was in WW2, so we got bombed, whereas the US was 100% safe, plus the US had one-way trade with Europe in both world wars, which made it extremely wealthy.

After lend-lease, the US then took all of France and Britain's gold, and told us to give up our Empire, taking our power away...

That's why.
As far as I can see is that you have your share of racism, political correctness
Every country has racism, and I'd rather be polite than crass.
your share of the poor,
Our poor own a whole shitload more than your poor, that's for sure.
polution
Damn that prevailing wind from the east!
hell how come any pics of London you see tons of smog oh wait that must be low clouds. okay.
London is not that pleasant, agreed.

But it's better than New York for pollution. Or Houston.
You guys are awesome, the BEST, man I wish we were more like you. Must be nice to live in the only part of the world thats Perfect.
It's not perfect, but it's a lot nicer to live in overall that some parts of the US.

If we are in Fear of Life or Property we have the right to defend it with all means necessary. It's the Law and damnit It should be the Law.

If it wasn't a Law then the dang criminals would be overwelmimg. If the criminals know it's the law it makes one hell of deterence.

As for those that want gun control laws.....I think good ole Hank Jr said it best....."I'll gladly hand you my gun if you take them from the criminals first"

Amen and God Bless America!!
Property is nothing compared to a human life. Absolutely nothing.

By your standards... if you're like the typical American conservative you're near fascist.

According to me and my voters registration.....I'm no affiliated with any parties. As far as I'm concerned you can shove both parties up your ass if it makes you feel any better. As in any country, politicians truely don't speak or fairly represent the people and if you believe they do, your a damn fool.

This special salute is for all political parties...........:upyours:

Property is nothing compared to a human life. Absolutely nothing.

You know what I have a dog, her name is Freedom, she's an awesome dog.

Most people would consider dogs your property. If someone breaks into my home sees my dog they have a knife or crow bar or whatever.....I will be damned if I don't do anything. My dog is like my kid and I will use any force I deem necessary to protect her, period.

It certainly is, actually.

It's right-wing on the European political axis.

Pardon?

We don't. We just accept it as something that occurs and we try to fight the causes rather than just bombing people. Because we've been dealing with it for years and we know what does and doesn't work.

Because we weren't miles away from the Luftwaffe, like the USA was in WW2, so we got bombed, whereas the US was 100% safe, plus the US had one-way trade with Europe in both world wars, which made it extremely wealthy.

After lend-lease, the US then took all of France and Britain's gold, and told us to give up our Empire, taking our power away...

That's why.

Every country has racism, and I'd rather be polite than crass.

Our poor own a whole shitload more than your poor, that's for sure.

Damn that prevailing wind from the east!

London is not that pleasant, agreed.

But it's better than New York for pollution. Or Houston.

It's not perfect, but it's a lot nicer to live in overall that some parts of the US.


Maybe take a walk to sober up....and take a look in the Thames while you're at it. Its looking like the Harlem or East River.

According to me and my voters registration.....I'm no affiliated with any parties. As far as I'm concerned you can shove both parties up your ass if it makes you feel any better. As in any country, politicians truely don't speak or fairly represent the people and if you believe they do, your a damn fool.

This special salute is for all political parties...........:upyours:
There are plenty of parties out there, you'll find at least one which you'll like for sure.

If we are in Fear of Life or Property we have the right to defend it with all means necessary. It's the Law and damnit It should be the Law.

If it wasn't a Law then the dang criminals would be overwelmimg. If the criminals know it's the law it makes one hell of deterence.

As for those that want gun control laws.....I think good ole Hank Jr said it best....."I'll gladly hand you my gun if you take them from the criminals first"

Amen and God Bless America!!

Are you serious or is this satrical trolling?

Honestly, I've heard that sort of thing said sincerely and sarcastically, and it is hard to tell on a forum which it is.

You know what I have a dog, her name is Freedom, she's an awesome dog.

Most people would consider dogs your property. If someone breaks into my home sees my dog they have a knife or crow bar or whatever.....I will be damned if I don't do anything. My dog is like my kid and I will use any force I deem necessary to protect her, period.

Dogs aren't property in any sense other than the legal one.

You know what I have a dog, her name is Freedom, she's an awesome dog.

Most people would consider dogs your property. If someone breaks into my home sees my dog they have a knife or crow bar or whatever.....I will be damned if I don't do anything. My dog is like my kid and I will use any force I deem necessary to protect her, period.

thereby opening yourself to assault and manslaughter charges.

Go ahead, do what you want. It's going to be your ass in the slammer.

Maybe take a walk to sober up....and take a look in the Thames while you're at it. Its looking like the Harlem or East River.
I'm more sober now, and I know that the Thames is bad... I said that London wasn't pleasant, didn't I?

And I compared it to New York (Harlem is a district, I know that). So you're simply agreeing...

I've heard of buckets of cases where someone was defending their home or car or some such and they shot the criminal. The usual American reaction is something like "well, it's a pity he got shot but hey you shouldn't steal cars." It's disgusting.

That attitude also leads to their economic ideology and foreign policy.

And where and when did this happen i suppose? cause i think your full of shit.
And was it just they were stealling or were they also threatening the persons life. And the way our system works its up to a jurry. If a jurry decides to let them off even if the jurry is wrong thats what happens because the person cant be tried again. No justice system is perfect so because of a few random mistakes if this is true and i doubt it you judge the whole country how enlightened of you. Because of a few freak incidents. I am sure if i looked i could find similar crap anywhere because like i said no justice system is perfect people are bound to get bad raps everyonce in awhile. And i suppose the European method would be better chuck a murderer in jail for twenty years and let him go.

Also note this fact...If you don't give the criminals a deterent to not commit crimes, If you have more laws protecting criminals then as I said earlier you are a damn fool.

Thank God I'm an American.........God Bless America

According to me and my voters registration.....I'm no affiliated with any parties. As far as I'm concerned you can shove both parties up your ass if it makes you feel any better. As in any country, politicians truely don't speak or fairly represent the people and if you believe they do, your a damn fool.

This special salute is for all political parties...........:upyours:

I think he referred to your prevailing alignment, not any party affiliation.

Although, it is rather indicative of how much you really follow politics that you think someone calling you a conservative automatically associates you with a party. Too much of the 24hr. networks and not enough of serious political study.

I'm more sober now, and I know that the Thames is bad... I said that London wasn't pleasant, didn't I?

And I compared it to New York (Harlem is a district, I know that). So you're simply agreeing...

The water is bad. But some of the nice citie views and walkways by the Thames are amazing.

You know what I have a dog, her name is Freedom, she's an awesome dog.

Most people would consider dogs your property. If someone breaks into my home sees my dog they have a knife or crow bar or whatever.....I will be damned if I don't do anything. My dog is like my kid and I will use any force I deem necessary to protect her, period.

At least you didn't name her Iraqi Freedom. :rolleyes:

But unless this knife weilding person comes after you, you can't do a thing about the intruder. Without the imminent threat to your life then you will be using excessive force if you hurt or kill the intruder.

The water is bad. But some of the nice citie views and walkways by the Thames are amazing.
Hmm that's correct, but we were talking of pollution rather than scenic quality.

It's very nice near the source (Cirencester etc.), mind.

Also note this fact...If you don't give the criminals a deterent to not commit crimes, If you have more laws protecting criminals then as I said earlier you are a damn fool.

Thank God I'm an American.........God Bless America

If a criminal is worried about the owner having a gun, then they'll just bring their own. One of the wonderful things about gun ownership, it levels the playing field for everyone.

Also note this fact...If you don't give the criminals a deterent to not commit crimes, If you have more laws protecting criminals then as I said earlier you are a damn fool.

Thank God I'm an American.........God Bless America
*does a really big sigh*

Hey NSG!
I have to represent the USA at a Mock United Nations thing quite soon. Problem is, I'm about as Anti-America (sorry) as they come. I think that's because I only ever hear the European/Canadian/Australian/Rest of the Free World's opinion.

So I'm asking all the Americans here, can you make me Patriotic to the U.S. of A.?

Make sure to rub the shoulders of a female delegate.

thereby opening yourself to assault and manslaughter charges.

Go ahead, do what you want. It's going to be your ass in the slammer.

Florida laws protect the people not criminals. If I am in Fear of my Life and/or Property, then I am protected by the law.

You canadians may have laws protecting your criminals. Fine. But you obviously haven't a clue about the different laws here in the USA.

I'll soon be getting my concealed weapon permit to carry a gun on me and with these new laws for Florida regarding the guns. wooooo hooooooo

Finally, some of the lawmakers wisened up to start protecting people from these criminals.

It's not perfect, but it's a lot nicer to live in overall that some parts of the US.[/QUOTE]

Try Chicago. Probably one of the cleanest big cities in the world. Expensive as hell though.

Florida laws protect the people not criminals. If I am in Fear of my Life and/or Property, then I am protected by the law.

You canadians may have laws protecting your criminals. Fine. But you obviously haven't a clue about the different laws here in the USA.

I'll soon be getting my concealed weapon permit to carry a gun on me and with these new laws for Florida regarding the guns. wooooo hooooooo

Finally, some of the lawmakers wisened up to start protecting people from these criminals.

The idea of a non-gangster carrying a gun around with him is pretty sad.

But how is the typical American attitude disgusting?
Two words: "Justified homicide".

If we are in Fear of Life or Property we have the right to defend it with all means necessary. It's the Law and damnit It should be the Law.
Life yes, property no.

In a country where the majority claim to be Christian I expect you to have more respect for life.

Two words: "Justified homicide".


Life yes, property no.

In a country where the majority claim to be Christian I expect you to have more respect for life.

Ahem once again your full of shit. Justified hommicide could refer to killing in defense of your life. Not property. Because we have the word doesnt mean what you are saying is true.

Are you serious or is this satrical trolling?

Honestly, I've heard that sort of thing said sincerely and sarcastically, and it is hard to tell on a forum which it is.

I cannot speak for other states but here in Florida it's the God's honest Truth. They past it as a law to give people better protection from these thugs and criminals. The police can't be everywhere all at once. So I personally am grateful for the law but Florida takes it even further....No matter where you are you have the right to protect your Life and Property no matter where you are.

I cannot speak for other states but here in Florida it's the God's honest Truth. They past it as a law to give people better protection from these thugs and criminals. The police can't be everywhere all at once. So I personally am grateful for the law but Florida takes it even further....No matter where you are you have the right to protect your Life and Property no matter where you are.

Um your hearts in the wright place but would you please shut up you make all Americans look like hics.

Florida laws protect the people not criminals. If I am in Fear of my Life and/or Property, then I am protected by the law.

You canadians may have laws protecting your criminals. Fine. But you obviously haven't a clue about the different laws here in the USA.

I'll soon be getting my concealed weapon permit to carry a gun on me and with these new laws for Florida regarding the guns. wooooo hooooooo

Finally, some of the lawmakers wisened up to start protecting people from these criminals.

Hang on, who told you we were discussing Florida laws? We were talking generally about an hypothetical situation. Not my fault you didn't specify where, why, how and such.

I do have a clue about USA law, especially floridian laws about shooting when in fear for it's life because it was mentionned in the papers to watch out about it because a raised voica can be construed as a threat. You see, many Canadians fly south for some vacations and they recommened avoiding florida for that specific reason.

So take your jingoistic attitude and shove it. When you're done come back and let's discuss the pros and cons of the various attitudes towards property and human life in a rational manner.

Meath.......I don't know where you are.....I personally can care less but how the Hell are you going to tell me about my state of Florida gun laws. You have access to the internet research it instead of assuming.

Florida state Law gives a person the right to protect his Life and Property with the use of any force deemed necessary. It's in black and white check out the Laws before opening your mouth filled assumptions.

I do have a clue about USA law, especially floridian laws about shooting when in fear for it's life because it was mentionned in the papers to watch out about it because a raised voica can be construed as a threat. You see, many Canadians fly south for some vacations and they recommened avoiding florida for that specific reason.

Sounds like a major overreaction.

Hang on, who told you we were discussing Florida laws? We were talking generally about an hypothetical situation. Not my fault you didn't specify where, why, how and such.

I do have a clue about USA law, especially floridian laws about shooting when in fear for it's life because it was mentionned in the papers to watch out about it because a raised voica can be construed as a threat. You see, many Canadians fly south for some vacations and they recommened avoiding florida for that specific reason.

So take your jingoistic attitude and shove it. When you're done come back and let's discuss the pros and cons of the various attitudes towards property and human life in a rational manner.

In illinois you would get charged with manslaughter at the very least which is why i live in Chicago Try and find one for there. i dont know about other states but is definetly not an "American" law that gives you a right to kill some one in defense of property your life yes property no.

I cannot speak for other states but here in Florida it's the God's honest Truth. They past it as a law to give people better protection from these thugs and criminals. The police can't be everywhere all at once. So I personally am grateful for the law but Florida takes it even further....No matter where you are you have the right to protect your Life and Property no matter where you are.

Um, yeah, I know the attitude a little too well. Taking your life (and the lives of anyone you percieve as a threat) into your own hands and becoming judge, jury, and executioner is a proud tradition in my state. I'm not sure about the legality, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a jury that'd convict anyone claiming defense.

I really try not to think about it too much, mostly because of the thought process involved. Paranoia, insecurity, lack of faith in your police, lack of faith in the laws of the rest of the country, etc. If you really don't feel safe in the streets, carrying a gun just makes you another armed and scared citizen in a mulititude of scared and armed citizens. I'll try to be off the streets when you all start shooting.

Meath.......I don't know where you are.....I personally can care less but how the Hell are you going to tell me about my state of Florida gun laws. You have access to the internet research it instead of assuming.

Florida state Law gives a person the right to protect his Life and Property with the use of any force deemed necessary. It's in black and white check out the Laws before opening your mouth filled assumptions.
I'm not saying that guns should be banned, or controlled or anything.

I'm saying that killing in defence of mere property is wrong, and should be illegal.

Well, then thats exactly what you get when you assume And I do believe I did mention my state a few times and also if you aren't able to see the part that tells you I'm from Tampa Bay area well then heres my glasses.

Anyways, as for the Canadians and Europeans, in my own opinion, always assuming.

Um, yeah, I know the attitude a little too well. Taking your life (and the lives of anyone you percieve as a threat) into your own hands and becoming judge, jury, and executioner is a proud tradition in my state. I'm not sure about the legality, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a jury that'd convict anyone claiming defense.

I really try not to think about it too much, mostly because of the thought process involved. Paranoia, insecurity, lack of faith in your police, lack of faith in the laws of the rest of the country, etc. If you really don't feel safe in the streets, carrying a gun just makes you another armed and scared citizen in a mulititude of scared and armed citizens. I'll try to be off the streets when you all start shooting.

Not in my state. I trust my police in fact YOU are not allowed to even own a handgun or any automatic weaponry in my state. much less kill in defense of property you would definatley be convicted. and i trust my police. I should my dads a cop.

Um your hearts in the wright place but would you please shut up you make all Americans look like hics.

Last I knew was that this was an open forum titled General-Anything and Everything and as for the insinuation of "hics" as being something bad, I am personally glad America has lots and lots of rednecks, hicks, hillbillies, or whatever else you choose to call them but hell they're the heart beat of America so get over it.:D
oh and no I will not shut up I'm excercizing my freedom of speech, I am still an American after all.

God Bless America

As for the police, they cannot be at all places at once, I do trust the police but it is high time that the laws start protecting the people first before the criminals. Throughout our nation there has been laws that seems to offer the criminals more protections but now that tide has turned and about dang time. If you don't geve the criminals some sort of deterence then you can expect an overwhelming amount of criminals to be on the street.

Again, the Police can only do so much and being everywheres all at once isn't something the Police force are capable of doing.

Not in my state. I trust my police in fact YOU are not allowed to even own a handgun or any automatic weaponry in my state. much less kill in defense of property you would definatley be convicted. and i trust my police. I should my dads a cop.

I trust the police in my own state, I even went to school with some of them. It's just the people that get a gun for protection because they don't trust the police, and celebrate how safe they'll be, like Emminger, that make me feel less safe.

Last I knew was that this was an open forum titled General-Anything and Everything and as for the insinuation of "hics" as being something bad, I am personally glad America has lots and lots of rednecks, hicks, hillbillies, or whatever else you choose to call them but hell they're the heart beat of America so get over it.:D
oh and no I will not shut up I'm excercizing my freedom of speech, I am still an American after all.

God Bless America

Heart beat of America my ass. All our best leaders came from backrounds of civility uhuh. ya your right you can say what you want but i didnt tell you to shut up i asked you nicley i dont have power to tell you. but if you ask me what you call the heart beat of America is the maliciuos brain tumor that needs to be removed with laser surgery.

Let me ask you this do what you call the heartbeat of America support the American economy. ahaha no that goes to Chicago New York and LA were people are more like me at least chicago and New york never been to LA. do they generally hold high paying jobs and important positions in this country. i think not. I dont mean to generalize because where your from doesnt define a person i am talking about people with your kind of attitude dont ever seem to get far in life. Let me ask you this where was kennedy from what was he like he certainly wasnt a hillby/redneck watever you want to call it. How about the Roosevelts lol no again. Lincoln oops guess not. oooh oooh i got how about tobey keith man were gonna put a boot up their ass what a way to honor 3000 dead ya that will make em happy go put a boot up some ones ass doesnt matter if the country invade didnt have jack to do with 9/11.
Frankly i know hics in chicago. To me a hick is a person unwilling to accept social change and fight against it no matter how dumb fighting against the inevitable is. Some things shouldnt change. But having the right to kill some one over a car is bullshit. And any one who thinks it aint is what i call a hick

I trust the police in my own state, I even went to school with some of them. It's just the people that get a gun for protection because they don't trust the police, and celebrate how safe they'll be, like Emminger, that make me feel less safe.

lol ya

Last I knew was that this was an open forum titled General-Anything and Everything and as for the insinuation of "hics" as being something bad, I am personally glad America has lots and lots of rednecks, hicks, hillbillies, or whatever else you choose to call them but hell they're the heart beat of America so get over it.:D
oh and no I will not shut up I'm excercizing my freedom of speech, I am still an American after all.

God Bless America

Certainly it's an open forum, and you do have a modicum of free speech (it is restricted by the rules, but you don't seem to have toed the line yet), and because this is a place people from all over the world would like to visit, I wish you would start taking responsibility for the image of Americans you're giving.

We have enough trouble coming off as anything but rednecks in other parts of the world nowadays, especially given that we have President who likes to pretend he's a good-ole down home boy. Just once, I'd like to see someone who proudly proclaims s/he's an American on these forums that doesn't simultaneously insult everyone else in the world and act as though they're proud of being so ignorant.

ok i am sick of this. until now i thought you couldnt kill any where over property except for a few freak accidents in this country where people get let off. i guess i was wrong.

I am deeply disturbed to hear that people think its fine to kill over property or that they have so little faith in their government agencies the police to protect them.

Heartbeat of america please do you think an educated person would believe it neccesary to kill in defense of property like a car if their lives or lives of loved ones wasnt in danger i think not.

I'm sorry if I insulted Everybody in the entire world. I promise you it was unintended.

Also, reading though a lot of these threads, has made me pretty defensive considering the fact most of these threads seem to insinuate some sort of anti-Americanism.

Being a very strong and Patriotic American, to me is not insulting. Being a "good ole Home boy" as you say and the way you said it is pretty offensive to me. If showing how pro-American I may be is insulting to the world then so be it. I have every right to be pro american as everyone's elses right to be anti american.

Also, Yes I am aware of the rules I have read the One stop Rules. If I broke a rule then I do sincerely apologize but please don't insinuate that I have broken the rules please tell me more precisely which rule If any I did indeed break. If you tell me which one I will do my best to see that it doesn't happen again.

I am just personally tired of certain people's right to bash and at the same time other people don't have the right to defend.

Anyways with all that aside please if I make a poor judgement and it's against the rules please inform me thanks.

I'm sorry if I insulted Everybody in the entire world. I promise you it was unintended.

Also, reading though a lot of these threads, has made me pretty defensive considering the fact most of these threads seem to insinuate some sort of anti-Americanism.

Being a very strong and Patriotic American, to me is not insulting. Being a "good ole Home boy" as you say and the way you said it is pretty offensive to me. If showing how pro-American I may be is insulting to the world then so be it. I have every right to be pro american as everyone's elses right to be anti american.

Also, Yes I am aware of the rules I have read the One stop Rules. If I broke a rule then I do sincerely apologize but please don't insinuate that I have broken the rules please tell me more precisely which rule If any I did indeed break. If you tell me which one I will do my best to see that it doesn't happen again.

I am just personally tired of certain people's right to bash and at the same time other people don't have the right to defend.

Anyways with all that aside please if I make a poor judgement and it's against the rules please inform me thanks.
I usually don't get involved in a debate with someone that takes an uncompromising position. It usually result in a waste of both of our time and frustration on both sides. But, you seem to be able to back off when you have to, so I thought that talking you down a bit would be worth the time. I'm glad to see I was right.

My problem isn't with your position, it's just the way you go about it. Many others have come and gone around here, using stock phrases and often stonewalling into patriotic diatribes when challenged. I know that pro-American doesn't equal unintelligent, but it isn't so apparent to others. Taking the time to post like you just did shows a bit more concern what everyone else is saying and makes you look less a caricature than your previous posts did. Part of the anti-American sentiment on this forum is just perpetuated when someone conforms to the caricature, and I'd like to see it broken.

I'm sorry if you took offense at the "good-ole boy" comment and anything else I've posted. You've kept within the rules here pretty well, just watch out for baiters that'll try to get you to break them.

I usually don't get involved in a debate with someone that takes an uncompromising position. It usually result in a waste of both of our time and frustration on both sides. But, you seem to be able to back off when you have to, so I thought that talking you down a bit would be worth the time. I'm glad to see I was right.

My problem isn't with your position, it's just the way you go about it. Many others have come and gone around here, using stock phrases and often stonewalling into patriotic diatribes when challenged. I know that pro-American doesn't equal unintelligent, but it isn't so apparent to others. Taking the time to post like you just did shows a bit more concern what everyone else is saying and makes you look less a caricature than your previous posts did. Part of the anti-American sentiment on this forum is just perpetuated when someone conforms to the caricature, and I'd like to see it broken.

I'm sorry if you took offense at the "good-ole boy" comment and anything else I've posted. You've kept within the rules here pretty well, just watch out for baiters that'll try to get you to break them.

I think i came off as a bit of an arrogant ass in my position to. Sorry and i am proud to be American even if i think America has made mistakes in the middle east and at home. Thats ok every country makes mistakes

So, is the writer of this thread patriotic for America yet?

Why on earth would you want to become patriotic to the US?

Its schools are shite, it has vast social problems, such as the enormous income disparity all over the country, an ineffective police force, they spy on their own people and try to make their schoolchildren into introverted communist-hating drones.

Not nice.

LOL

Described 9/10ths of the world right there. Difference is, we don't bother gettin defensive any more.


On the plus side,
Our unemployment rate is lower than most of Europe's, our economy is actually growing, while much of the EU is stagnant the last time I checked, and our music, clothing, and cultural influence is leaving marks all around the world. For better or worse.

Last I knew was that this was an open forum titled General-Anything and Everything and as for the insinuation of "hics" as being something bad, I am personally glad America has lots and lots of rednecks, hicks, hillbillies
You may as well be glad that Pakistan has lots of terrorists.

they're the heart beat of America so get over it.
More like the heart tumour of America.

God Bless America
Ye sure need it.

Our unemployment rate is lower than most of Europe's, our economy is actually growing, while much of the EU is stagnant the last time I checked
Lie. Even the supposed communist backwater that is Sweden recorded 5% growth last year.

More like the heart tumour of America.
Ye sure need it.

You know you Europeans should really take a look at your own history before you open your mouth.

Your English right I will just point out a few of your little escapades in the past.

India, Ireland maybe not so much in the past heh northern Ireland, south africa.

Every country makes mistakes. You should take a better look at your own country and you will see its not so much better than ours.
The greatest imperialists to ever walk the earth.

So, is the writer of this thread patriotic for America yet?


Lol... Not quite...

If history has it correct.....I do believe Great Britain had more of a foot in the Middle East than the USA does today. I do believe that was back before and during WW2 but I guess back then it was okay.

As for Meath, I won't stoop to your immature level of bashing and immature remarks, as your previous post.

Every nation in this world has their good points and their bad points.

As for the United States of America, we do a heck of a lot more Good than we do Bad. But with the like of Meath's I don't ever expect to convince of our Good. You appear to be living a miserable life. Atleast us Americans are a very Hopeful People. May God continue to Bless America.:)

Why on earth would you want to become patriotic to the US?

Its schools are shite, it has vast social problems, such as the enormous income disparity all over the country, an ineffective police force, they spy on their own people and try to make their schoolchildren into introverted communist-hating drones.

Not nice.

Hmm, I dont know where you got this info:rolleyes: but its not true, first of all School is what YOU make of it, I went to a very good public high School in Vermont, where education is a high priority, I took mostly honors classes, and loved my teachers and schooling, hardly what I would call a "shite" school, The Police Force is hardly ineffective, (At least we dont shoot innocent Brazillian plumbers when they try to enter the subway, like yours;) )
Vast social problems?:( Sure we have social problems, but name a country that doesnt? And buddy, the 50's are over, we are not communist hating drones anymore.

Every country on the planet has a sordid past to some extent. Fuck it. What matters is the present.

Unfortunately the present is to a very large extent that the image America projects of itself, is fake & hypocritical, and that Americans themselves take great pride in just that.

It's not that the rest of us are better or even terribly different, there's just less bloodyminded glorification of our own miserable failures going on over here.

And of course, there the cultural difference. Most of the cultures of Europe are to some degree rooted in a humanistic worldview. American culture seems more rooted in nihilistic love of chaos.

Every country on the planet has a sordid past to some extent. Fuck it. What matters is the present.

Unfortunately the present is to a very large extent that the image America projects of itself, is fake & hypocritical, and that Americans themselves take great pride in just that.

It's not that the rest of us are better or even terribly different, there's just less bloodyminded glorification of our own miserable failures going on over here.

And of course, there the cultural difference. Most of the cultures of Europe are to some degree rooted in a humanistic worldview. American culture seems more rooted in nihilistic love of chaos.
And just where did you dig up this crap. ok lets see whats going on now. If Europeans are so high and mighty how come they arent doing jack about Al-Queda. How come they aint doing jack about Darfur. And how come the British are still in Northern Ireland.

And just where did you dig up this crap. ok lets see whats going on now. If Europeans are so high and mighty how come they arent doing jack about Al-Queda. How come they aint doing jack about Darfur. And how come the British are still in Northern Ireland.How exactly are Americans doing anything about those things?

Anyway, that´s exactly the attitude I was talking about. We´re doing fuck-all, same as you, but at least we´re not trying to convince anyone there´s something heroic about it.

I.e. the installation of capitalist dictatorships where socialist democracies once existed, right?

Yea, cuz, Iraq was totally a democracy, right?

And how come the British are still in Northern Ireland.

That's almost like asking why the Americans are still in Hawaii.

Yea, cuz, Iraq was totally a democracy, right?Socialist Democracies and Capitalist Dictatorships sounds like 9/11 to me. (1973, that is)

Why on earth would you want to become patriotic to the US?

Its schools are shite, it has vast social problems, such as the enormous income disparity all over the country, an ineffective police force, they spy on their own people and try to make their schoolchildren into introverted communist-hating drones.

Not nice.

and most of europe does not have/do the same?
and lest we forget about africa and the middle east..lovely places to live...especially for women...sheesh..talk about a pot calling the kettle black....at least in america you have the oppurtunity to achieve,and as far as spying on it's people...thats laughable....england has evryone under surveillance....and the lovely mid east folks get to sit waiting for a knock on the door from the secret police,never to be seen or heard from once they are taken away.

yea,america is sooo bad...get a grip.

Why on earth would you want to become patriotic to the US?

Its schools are shite, it has vast social problems, such as the enormous income disparity all over the country, an ineffective police force, they spy on their own people and try to make their schoolchildren into introverted communist-hating drones.

Not nice.


REally? Is this an example of better schooling?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/5241524.stm

On what do you based your assertion that we have an "ineffective police force"? Is this one so effective? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4712061.stm

And in England, people are not being spied upon? http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=5&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2F2%2Fhi%2Fuk_news%2Fengland%2Fwest_midlands%2F3429243.stm&ei=-fIRRf_GLIKMgAKO_qXzCQ&sig=__0-_u5kHFhs1-ZDvgPLt-PhQOwOM=&sig2=-0h0dRG6f8ZkY5odX6X1Kg and http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=6&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2F1%2Fhi%2Fengland%2F1754138.stm&ei=-fIRRf_GLIKMgAKO_qXzCQ&sig=__K4cwUNW3QXfOWMMuCnN2_w6Vj3M=&sig2=KYUqnHES3ztXr0Asw-mBEQ

And what, pray tell, do you base your accusation that they "try to make their schoolchildren into introverted communist-hating drones"? Because we don't pander to chavs in schools?

Ya know, you really need to think about those glass houses when you start tossing stones.

So I'm asking all the Americans here, can you make me Patriotic to the U.S. of A.?

Probably not -- just remember the motto: "Hate the government, love the country."

Probably not -- just remember the motto: "Hate the government, love the country."

+1

Whether it's legal to shoot someone to prevent theft in the US depends on which state you're in. It's not governed by a nationwide legal code.

Fergi America;11711347']Whether it's legal to shoot someone to prevent theft in the US depends on which state you're in. It's not governed by a nationwide legal code.

I can say that if you're not a cop, it is illegal in Hawaii to shoot someone or otherwise kill in order to defend yourself, even if said person broke into your house and even if your life was imminently threatened.

1. If you are representing the average American (you must at least fake it to get elected in the US), you have to follow some of the criteria:

conservative:
a. you believe that liberals hate having rich people around(like more people with more money is going to make them richer and NOT going to skyrocket inflation due to the money being worth less. You believe that if hiring employees was less risky, unemployment would go down. You believe that if minimum wage went up, along with taxes, hiring more people would kill the company, making all your current employees, and you, unemployed.

b. If someone breaks into your house to rob you, shoot them. They're probably dangerous, so don't ask questions. If they're gutsy enough to risk you calling the cops on them, they're probably gutsy enough to have a gun and shoot you. Better them than you. Plus, cars are important. You need them to thrive because the bus schedule sucks, you work miles away from home, and the bus system is too underused to warrent a better system anyway.

c. Political correctness is an evil. Not as big as racism, but it's screwing with people. Anything could offend anyone so why bother? Not being a dick should be good enough. Wanting to close the border to stop people willing to work below minimum wage and drug traffickers is important, no matter how much the illegals hate it. Hey, if illegal European immigrants, illegal Asian immigrants, and illegal African immigrants get deported, why not the illegal hispanics? What did they do to deserve preferential treatment?

d. The only good change is good change. Change for the sake of change is bad. It gave the Germans years of poverty followed by Hitler and his glorious reign of fear and violence. It also put Castro in power.

liberals:
a. Bush is evil. Whatever he's for, you're against.

b. You believe in giving people stuff. People are poor because there are rich people.

c. Change. You love it. If you didn't, you wouldn't be liberal, would you? If you hate change, congrats. You're a conservative.

green party:
a. I have no idea what the hell this party is about. I know that democrats like taxes(except when it comes to them. Damn hypocrates. If you think rich people hurt the poor by being richer than the poor, give up your money. Sure, the Republicans won't give up theres. They believe that rich people can help poor people more than the government can. They like rich people and they don't hate themselves. Put 2 and 2 together.)

b. I'm sure most Americans don't know much about this stuff either.

c. You could pretty much make anything up about this group and I wouldn't know.

You're not supposed to represent the average citizen of a country, you're representing the administrations representative. Research the U.S.'s position on the issues you're debating in MUN. Articles, State Department, and CIA World Factbook are your best sources, not NSG.

Excellent advice. Pretending the Cold War is still happening, or defending the Founders against the Whigs, doesn't seem relevant.

You've got your work cut out. The only thing the modern USA has in it's favour is raw power.
Defending the USA as the world's policeman isn't good. Well, it's a losing position, anyway, whether that's right or wrong. Your opponent only has to utter the words "might makes right" and you're sunk.
"Free trade" might work, unless your opponent has a few key facts about US government subsidies, or mentions Cuba. Then you're sunk.
Empires. Comparing the USA with Rome might work. Most people have a positive impression of the Roman Empire. Don't say "Pax Americana" because that's known not to work.

Yeah, so back to Laerod's point. Bog them down in UN-style issue-talk. Baffle them with beaurocracy. Not losing is a good result ;)

<snip>

Ya know, you really need to think about those glass houses when you start tossing stones.

We denizens of the net regard nationalism as despicable, revealing your nationality as bad security policy, and holding another poster to account for their stated nationality as dumb and naive.
Of course, you are another generation from me (or fake it well.)

You really need to think about all of our glass houses, before you start tossing stones.

That's almost like asking why the Americans are still in Hawaii.

Not really i dont see any bombs going off in hawaii granted its been rather peacefull latley but i didnt see all that fighting a hawaii clearly a large group of people werent happy with them there.

How exactly are Americans doing anything about those things?

Anyway, that´s exactly the attitude I was talking about. We´re doing fuck-all, same as you, but at least we´re not trying to convince anyone there´s something heroic about it.

I aint trying to convince any one of American Heroics we screwed up in Iraq we screwed up in Afganistan but at least we dont sit back and point out others mistakes while not doing jack ourselves.

1. <snip> .

You know you just categorized every one in America its not that simple i dont think i am liberal or conservitave in America the ideal. or at least was moderate. I still hold moderacy as the ideal in my country and most Americans do to. If we didnt have two morons so far to the left or right we are voting to keep the other numskull out of office not because we like him maybe we could have come up with some one better than Bush or Kerry.

Bush=ape
Kerry=no Balls

unfortunaltey people seemed to prefer the ape more than the no balls quality.

Hey NSG!
I have to represent the USA at a Mock United Nations thing quite soon. Problem is, I'm about as Anti-America (sorry) as they come. I think that's because I only ever hear the European/Canadian/Australian/Rest of the Free World's opinion.

So I'm asking all the Americans here, can you make me Patriotic to the U.S. of A.?

Forget everything you ever learned. Bang your head against a wall for a while to drop your IQ a bit. Get yourself a lazer-sighted automatic assault-rifle and claim god gave it to you... And medicate yourself heavily ( For example: If your toe itches, swallow a couple of painkillers instead of scratching).

How fast can you gain weight?

Forget everything you ever learned. Bang your head against a wall for a while to drop your IQ a bit. Get yourself a lazer-sighted automatic assault-rifle and claim god gave it to you... And medicate yourself heavily ( For example: If your toe itches, swallow a couple of painkillers instead of scratching).

How fast can you gain weight?

Not to feed into your out of touch ignorance, but you haven't a clue about the truth of America. :upyours:

You know you Europeans should really take a look at your own history before you open your mouth.
Correct.
Your English right I will just point out a few of your little escapades in the past.
OK, as long as you let me point out some of yours in the future.
India
We gave them rail networks and an efficient postal service, also gave them some of our industry (although not enough at all, really), and abolished Suttee, which was pretty bad (although it's a cultural thing, I suppose, so it wasn't really our business.

And most Brits are indeed apologetic about what we did.

So yes, sorry Indians, for 1) Ruining your culture, 2) Treating you like second-class humans, 3) Exploiting your natural resources and 4) Making you work in call centres, which I can imagine is really boring and quite demoralising.
Ireland maybe not so much in the past heh northern Ireland
I'd say we were worse to Ireland than northern Ireland, and I certainly don't support the UK's actions there.
south africa.
Concentration camps were indeed horrible. Sorry about that, the South Africans.
Every country makes mistakes. You should take a better look at your own country and you will see its not so much better than ours.
We've done less damage on a per-year basis than the US, and you can't really argue that.

Although, that said, Britain has done some horrible things.
The greatest imperialists to ever walk the earth.
Hmm there's some pretty tough competition to contend with, there. The British Empire was indeed large, but the Dutch, Spanish and Portugese also had vast empires, and the French had an empire in a size comparable to Britain.

On the other hand, the British did try to improve the quality of lives of a fair amount of the states we meddled with and exploited, and we were the first to give up slavery.

*edits*

@ everyone regarding my original post who has yet to twig -

I was really, really pissed when I wrote that (pissed as in drunk). So yeah, it was pretty scathing to be honest.

Not to feed into your out of touch ignorance, but you haven't a clue about the truth of America. :upyours:

HAHAHA and isnt that the truth.

Correct.

OK, as long as you let me point out some of yours in the future.

We gave them rail networks and an efficient postal service, also gave them some of our industry (although not enough at all, really), and abolished Suttee, which was pretty bad (although it's a cultural thing, I suppose, so it wasn't really our business.

And most Brits are indeed apologetic about what we did.

So yes, sorry Indians, for 1) Ruining your culture, 2) Treating you like second-class humans, 3) Exploiting your natural resources and 4) Making you work in call centres, which I can imagine is really boring and quite demoralising.

I'd say we were worse to Ireland than northern Ireland, and I certainly don't support the UK's actions there.

Concentration camps were indeed horrible. Sorry about that, the South Africans.
Every country makes mistakes. You should take a better look at your own country and you will see its not so much better than ours.

Hmm there's some pretty tough competition to contend with, there. The British Empire was indeed large, but the Dutch, Spanish and Portugese also had vast empires, and the French had an empire in a size comparable to Britain.

On the other hand, the British did try to improve the quality of lives of a fair amount of the states we meddled with and exploited, and we were the first to give up slavery.

I am not trying to bash England and i know there are problems in my country i am doing what i can to fix them. I merely get upset when people bash my country for a few mistakes when we really have done a lot of good too. and i am not trying to say America is better than England. Merely that every country has its problems and people shouldnt be so damn nitpicky about the ones America has made and make ignorant assumptions about all the people living there.
Again no offense to the brits.

I am not trying to bash England and i know there are problems in my country i am doing what i can to fix them. I merely get upset when people bash my country for a few mistakes when we really have done a lot of good too. and i am not trying to say America is better than England. Merely that every country has its problems and people shouldnt be so damn nitpicky about the ones America has made and make ignorant assumptions about all the people living there.
Again no offense to the brits.
Ah - but here is where my astonishing prejudice against the US (government) comes from -

Europe doesn't claim to be bastions of honour and loveliness, whereas the US government is always trying to claim that it's always doing the right thing.

This grates on my nerves, a lot.

The US is always going on about how terrible China/Cuba/Iran etc. is for locking up political dissidents and such, but those countries have never made the pretense that they are kind-hearted or anything, whereas the US does the same and doesn't expect to get more criticism for its actions.

Not to feed into your out of touch ignorance, but you haven't a clue about the truth of America. :upyours:

Sorry...I was only kidding, of course everyone knows Americans sit around all day sipping white wine, reading post-modern theory and quoting ancient greek philosophers.

Why on earth would you want to become patriotic to the US?

Its schools are shite, it has vast social problems, such as the enormous income disparity all over the country, an ineffective police force, they spy on their own people and try to make their schoolchildren into introverted communist-hating drones.

Not nice.

I live in America and your actually very right. and for the last part, try to make their schoolchildren into introverted communist-hating drones. the key word there is TRY. They do TRY. But they typically fail. With the dumbass hick kids they succeed but for the kids who know how to open thier eyes they know the truth. The problem is, Unlike our hippy forefathers, or our real four fathers of the revolution, our generation is to brainwashed to fight back against our own government. We're like german citezens in 1938. we've had such and easy and free excistance we have no idea what a REAL war is like. We have no idea what its like the ENJOY freedom. We're like lambs. and it'll take a huge bloody civil war to change it.

Ah - but here is where my astonishing prejudice against the US (government) comes from -

Europe doesn't claim to be bastions of honour and loveliness, whereas the US government is always trying to claim that it's always doing the right thing.

This grates on my nerves, a lot.

The US is always going on about how terrible China/Cuba/Iran etc. is for locking up political dissidents and such, but those countries have never made the pretense that they are kind-hearted or anything, whereas the US does the same and doesn't expect to get more criticism for its actions.

Your right Bush and his administration are a bunch a self righeous piss ants. I know this a lot of Americans know this. Many are trying to change this.

But whenever a country becomes a leading super power your bound to get piss ants like them. Its what happend to England when it was a supper power it happened to Rome thousands of years ago it is always what happens to countries who gain power so quickly.

I dont blame you for not liking my government i dont like it either. And to be honest it gos back farther than Bush you can trace the beggining of this self righteous shit to Reagan deccades ago. However i like to think because of Bush's stupidity Americans have begone to awaken to the stupidy of this stance. then again maybe I am wrong. Even many of Bushs former supporters are turnning on him. Colin powel issued a warning to Americans of the way other countries are beggining to view us its understanble what with a person with Bush in Charge.

However its what happens to all countries that are shapping the world eventually they let it go to their head it is only human. Also the two party system in my country doesnt exactly help the situtation what when your alternative to Bush is Kerry. I liked Kerry better but he wasnt exactly a model leader either.

And i dont think Clinton was a self righteuos bastard and he wasnt all to long ago.

I live in America and your actually very right. and for the last part, try to make their schoolchildren into introverted communist-hating drones. the key word there is TRY. They do TRY. But they typically fail. With the dumbass hick kids they succeed but for the kids who know how to open thier eyes they know the truth. The problem is, Unlike our hippy forefathers, or our real four fathers of the revolution, our generation is to brainwashed to fight back against our own government. We're like german citezens in 1938. we've had such and easy and free excistance we have no idea what a REAL war is like. We have no idea what its like the ENJOY freedom. We're like lambs. and it'll take a huge bloody civil war to change it.
You really think so?

I think I may have been wrong, I was talking right out of my arse last night.

But it's interesting that you agree.

Hey NSG!
I have to represent the USA at a Mock United Nations thing quite soon. Problem is, I'm about as Anti-America (sorry) as they come. I think that's because I only ever hear the European/Canadian/Australian/Rest of the Free World's opinion.

So I'm asking all the Americans here, can you make me Patriotic to the U.S. of A.?

Take a look at everything you like about your country. Claim that only your country has it. Substitute "America" for the name of your country.

Take all the things that make America nice place to be, and then pretend that you, personally, made it that way, but don't want to take the credit.

Americans can't really criticise Britain. Most Brits are sorry for their imperial past, while most Americans are apathetic or even proud of their imperial past.

The US is always going on about how terrible China/Cuba/Iran etc. is for locking up political dissidents and such, but those countries have never made the pretense that they are kind-hearted or anything, whereas the US does the same and doesn't expect to get more criticism for its actions.
Well, China and Cuba have usually pretended to be acting in the name of the "the people", i.e. acting in the interests of the freedom of majority when they are not doing so.

Iran usually claims to exemplify Islamic values.

Your right Bush and his administration are a bunch a self righeous piss ants. I know this a lot of Americans know this. Many are trying to change this.
Not hard enough, though, that's the problem. Take to the streets. Actually protest. Don't just 'rebel' by saying things over the Internet.
I dont blame you for not liking my government i dont like it either. And to be honest it gos back farther than Bush you can trace the beggining of this self righteous shit to Reagan deccades ago. However i like to think because of Bush's stupidity Americans have begone to awaken to the stupidy of this stance. then again maybe I am wrong. Even many of Bushs former supporters are turnning on him. Colin powel issued a warning to Americans of the way other countries are beggining to view us its understanble what with a person with Bush in Charge.
For me, other than possibly Hoover, Raegan is my least favourite president, ever. Grrr what a tit he was.

"Hmm yes, this détante business is working nicely... now... how to cheese off the Soviets and abandon a policy that could have saved a lot of lives...?"
However its what happens to all countries that are shapping the world eventually they let it go to their head it is only human. Also the two party system in my country doesnt exactly help the situtation what when your alternative to Bush is Kerry. I liked Kerry better but he wasnt exactly a model leader either.
Kerry was the lesser of two evils, even if he was both pro and against every single issue (see gay marriage - "I don't like it... but I won't let that get in the way of peoples' rights!" and indeed the Iraq war "I'd have invaded, but I'd have also pulled out earlier!").

Bush is political suicide for the USA.
And i dont think Clinton was a self righteuos bastard and he wasnt all to long ago.
Clinton was quite good, indeed. Although his handling of some issues was poor (Rwanda as one). That said, a lot of cock-ups were nothing to do with him (the Branch Davidians etc.).

Regardless, of your obvious brain washed rhettoric. USA's action of good intentions and generosity and good deeds period tremendously outweigh the bad and the negative.

Remember, every nation, whether you be a 3rd world nation or a super power have there share of flaws, but from reading some of these posts, seems as if some people instead using their brain, speak out of their asses and allows their own bigoted selves to criticize what overall is a great nation.

To those bigoted ones who speak solely out of anger, take your meds and cool it. Also, before placing judgement, I must say you really ought to look in a mirror first.

We, in America, do far more greater good than bad. Seems like some of you misinformed people are determined to focus on the bad which compared to the good is minimal. Get over it and move on.

I would like to wish those who are filled with anger and hatred, may you one day find happiness, with that being said that happiness must come from with in first. Have a good day. :)

You really think so?

I think I may have been wrong, I was talking right out of my arse last night.

But it's interesting that you agree.

Oh yeah, there is seriously so much brainwashing bullshit that happens here. Esspecialy in the schools. I dont know if its a national agenda or not becuase many of the teachers seem to do it. But some others will actually shut there doors and proceed to tell us the truth. When you see stuff like that in a place that supposedly the "land of the free" you begin to be glad the writers of the constitution put the 2nd amendment in their. And by no-means am I conservative or republican. I hate them, and the Dems. They're all just so stupid, or clever by acting stupid so no-one thinks theyre plotting something horrid. But anyways, It is still so sad to me to see that so many Americans are letting themselves just be pushed around by its government. I mean we were founded on rebbellion for gods sake and look at us now. Bush says the CIA has secret illegal prisons around the world and no public outcry here at all. Bush says he is illegally taping us and spying us and there is little done to stop him. The Conservatives call for rolling back civil rights and profile people by race to better keep people "safe", and people only quittle. Bush starts wars that are against americans intrest and the people do nothing. Not a damn thing. Sure they bash him and call him stupid and talk shit. But NOTING IS DONE. Soon bush may say somthing like, "since the war on terroism is still such a threat, and since I am the best leader in position to keep you safe from this threat, I am going to remain in power as long as I see fit to get the job done," and bam no he can do what he wants and we're on the way to some 1984 paradise. Of course its not just Bush. Its the whole Federal Government, including the Dems. The American people need to freaking wake up before this situation turns into an apocalyptic senario.

Americans can't really criticise Britain. Most Brits are sorry for their imperial past, while most Americans are apathetic or even proud of their imperial past.[QUOTE]
Indeed. And the whole massively inappropriate "Cowboys and Injuns" thing as a cultural past-time. Nice one.

You don't get "Irish famine recreation" in the UK.
[QUOTE]Well, China and Cuba have usually pretended to be acting in the name of the "the people", i.e. acting in the interests of the freedom of majority when they are not doing so.
Not really true, most of the time, it's more "no comment" than anything else.
Iran usually claims to exemplify Islamic values.
That doesn't sound like taking the moral high-ground to me.

;) I live in America and your actually very right. and for the last part, try to make their schoolchildren into introverted communist-hating drones. the key word there is TRY. They do TRY. But they typically fail. With the dumbass hick kids they succeed but for the kids who know how to open thier eyes they know the truth. The problem is, Unlike our hippy forefathers, or our real four fathers of the revolution, our generation is to brainwashed to fight back against our own government. We're like german citezens in 1938. we've had such and easy and free excistance we have no idea what a REAL war is like. We have no idea what its like the ENJOY freedom. We're like lambs. and it'll take a huge bloody civil war to change it.

Um i dont know what rock you crawled out of but the 50s are over buddy trying to make our kids communist hating drones not in my experience. although i went to private jesuit school and i found it to be very open minded on many issues. And i think you overestimate the ammount of brain washed hics in America look at Bushs approval rating. Lambs i think your wrong there are still many good smart intelligent people in this country Bush's administration hasnt exactly gone without criticism here or Reagan or all those self righteous communist hating drones.

And i think your deluded about a bloody civil war i think Bush's stupidity and the shit he got our country in has finnally awakened a lot of Americans it should be interesting to see the direction our country goes once his term is up.

And German citizens under hitler thats a big exageration we havent exactly tried to take over the world yet just the part with oil. ;) Nor do you see people rushing to join the army to punish the enemmies of the Fuehur (Bush). In adition Hitler became a dictator that is far what Bush is going to become people are tired of him and he doesnt have the means to take power you vastly exagerate the problems in America.

Not hard enough, though, that's the problem. Take to the streets. Actually protest. Don't just 'rebel' by saying things over the Internet.

Kind of hard im to often busy i have been involved in more than a few protests against my government over the years. I went to two protests trying to shut down the SOA in highschool. I have yet to visit DC to protest Iraq but want to soon.

Any way protesting wont help with the Bush administration now he doesnt give a shit he doesnt have to worry about getting reelected, and even if he did its not like the democrats are going to throw some one competent at him. YOU KNOW KERRY!!! god that election pissed the hell out of me.

We might get him impeached if enough of us got together but i doubt it he has to much concentrated support in some of the hick states. And considering the senate doesnt represent population well not much chance of getting him impeached even if we do outnumber his supporters as long he holds an equal number of overall states.

What we need is a third party that can win i mean really win for once. To many Americans are convinced that Third party cant win so they give in to the Two party system. Or maybe just a competent democrat or republican to step up.

Unfortunatley i dont think much can be done till his term is up.:mad: hopefully we will elect some one better this time if not well my grandpa was born in Ireland maybe i can still get Irish citizenship.

The best thing to do is to put yourself in this mindset.

Everyone else is telling you what they want you to do.
You feel that what they are telling you is not always in your best interest.
When you do something it is either one of the following:
A. You do what people don't want you to and they gripe and complain no matter the results
B. You do what people want and they gripe and complain because you didn't do it exactly as they wanted you to. (Kosovo & Somalia)

I think that this is the frustration for Americans. They feel as if no matter what they do, other countries will be mad. Also that other countries want to use the resources of the US to achieve their own goals.

Oh lol ya i forgot my intention was not to rebel but to show that all americans arent like Bush and Reagan.

The best thing to do is to put yourself in this mindset.

Everyone else is telling you what they want you to do.
You feel that what they are telling you is not always in your best interest.
When you do something it is either one of the following:
A. You do what people don't want you to and they gripe and complain no matter the results
B. You do what people want and they gripe and complain because you didn't do it exactly as they wanted you to. (Kosovo & Somalia)

I think that this is the frustration for Americans. They feel as if no matter what they do, other countries will be mad. Also that other countries want to use the resources of the US to achieve their own goals.

YEP

It's not really fair to compare the entire United States to Britain or Canada. Canada has a population similar to that of California, and a smaller GDP. Really, we should be comparing the U.S. to the E.U. Only by grouping the entire E.U. together do we get a GDP that rivals Americas. Granted that America's GDP and population are rising faster than those of the E.U. and our per capita income was 10,000$ greater in 2005, still, for now the E.U. serves as a good comparison for America's economic influence. Militarily of course the U.S. blows the E.U. out of the water.

So in these two fields the U.S. should demand as much influence in the U.N. as the E.U. member states combined.

Likewise, in any group comprising such large areas and populations there will be varrying levels of crime, and some places will be nicer to live in than others. This comparison is much more just.

CIA World factbook entries for E.U. and U.S.
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ee.html

Kind of hard im to often busy i have been involved in more than a few protests against my government over the years. I went to two protests trying to shut down the SOA in highschool. I have yet to visit DC to protest Iraq but want to soon.

Any way protesting wont help with the Bush administration now he doesnt give a shit he doesnt have to worry about getting reelected, and even if he did its not like the democrats are going to throw some one competent at him. YOU KNOW KERRY!!! god that election pissed the hell out of me.

We might get him impeached if enough of us got together but i doubt it he has to much concentrated support in some of the hick states. And considering the senate doesnt represent population well not much chance of getting him impeached even if we do outnumber his supporters as long he holds an equal number of overall states.

What we need is a third party that can win i mean really win for once. To many Americans are convinced that Third party cant win so they give in to the Two party system. Or maybe just a competent democrat or republican to step up.

Unfortunatley i dont think much can be done till his term is up.:mad: hopefully we will elect some one better this time if not well my grandpa was born in Ireland maybe i can still get Irish citizenship.

I'm really getting tired of you using the word "hic" as a bad thing. For starters, it spelled "hick" secondly, there are a hell of a lot of good men and women who are dang good people. Must I remind you that no matter who the hell you or anyone else is, their are both good and bad.

Being a good ole country boy is NOT a bad thing. Being a city slicker is NOT a bad thing, however whether you live in the country or in the hills or in the city, there is in FACT bad people mixed in with the good.

So I ask you please to try and refrain from using "hic" as something bad. Thank-you

It's not really fair to compare the entire United States to Britain or Canada. Canada has a population similar to that of California, and a smaller GDP. Really, we should be comparing the U.S. to the E.U. Only by grouping the entire E.U. together do we get a GDP that rivals Americas. Granted that America's GDP and population are rising faster than those of the E.U. and our per capita income was 10,000$ greater in 2005, still, for now the E.U. serves as a good comparison for America's economic influence. Militarily of course the U.S. blows the E.U. out of the water.

So in these two fields the U.S. should demand as much influence in the U.N. as the E.U. member states combined.

Likewise, in any group comprising such large areas and populations there will be varrying levels of crime, and some places will be nicer to live in than others. This comparison is much more just.

CIA World factbook entries for E.U. and U.S.
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ee.html

The US blows every one out of the water militarily at least in spending. Not the thing I am proudest of considerig almost half my taxes 47% goes to the military what is it something like 470 billion a year i think?

I'm really getting tired of you using the word "hic" as a bad thing. For starters, it spelled "hick" secondly, there are a hell of a lot of good men and women who are dang good people. Must I remind you that no matter who the hell you or anyone else is, their are both good and bad.

Being a good ole country boy is NOT a bad thing. Being a city slicker is NOT a bad thing, however whether you live in the country or in the hills or in the city, there is in FACT bad people mixed in with the good.

So I ask you please to try and refrain from using "hic" as something bad. Thank-you

Sorry i didnt mean Hick as in country boy and i know its spelled Hick i spelled it Hick more than a few times i am not really carefull about my spelling. And by hick i didnt mean country boy. by hick i meant how do i say this. Well some one is proud of their ignorance not as a term for a region which is traditionally used. i didnt mean locations. If you took my meaning for any one who lives in the country is a Hick as in ignorant i apologize not what i meant. what i see as of as hicks are ignorant people no matter where they are i suppose i should choose my wording more carefully considering what the word traditionally means.

Americans can't really criticise Britain. Most Brits are sorry for their imperial past, while most Americans are apathetic or even proud of their imperial past.

Who the hell told you that? You think most Americans shrug when they hear about giving American Indians smallpox infected blankets in order to secure our "Manifest Destiny?" Are most Americans proud to have held millions of people in involuntary servitude? What about the Bay of Pigs invasion?

I think you're mistaking apathy for ignorance. Once people find out, say, what we did to Queen Liliuokalani and the Hawaiian Kingdom, they genuinely regret it. To take your view of Americans from the mouthpieces on the tee-vee is an error.

Who the hell told you that? You think most Americans shrug when they hear about giving American Indians smallpox infected blankets in order to secure our "Manifest Destiny?" Are most Americans proud to have held millions of people in involuntary servitude? What about the Bay of Pigs invasion?

I think you're mistaking apathy for ignorance. Once people find out, say, what we did to Queen Liliuokalani and the Hawaiian Kingdom, they genuinely regret it. To take your view of Americans from the mouthpieces on the tee-vee is an error.

Ditto.

Clinton was quite good, indeed. Although his handling of some issues was poor (Rwanda as one). That said, a lot of cock-ups were nothing to do with him (the Branch Davidians etc.).
Why do so many leftists think that Clinton was good? He was a right-wing president who tried to look "liberal".

Who the hell told you that? You think most Americans shrug when they hear about giving American Indians smallpox infected blankets in order to secure our "Manifest Destiny?" Are most Americans proud to have held millions of people in involuntary servitude? What about the Bay of Pigs invasion?
Vietnam, Guatemala, El Salvador, etc...

The only reason they regret the Bay of Pigs invasion is because it was so unsuccessful.

Vietnam, Guatemala, El Salvador, etc...

The only reason they regret the Bay of Pigs invasion is because it was so unsuccessful.

Technically, "Manifest Destiny" doesn't include Vietnam.

Why do so many leftists think that Clinton was good? He was a right-wing president who tried to look "liberal".


Vietnam, Guatemala, El Salvador, etc...

The only reason they regret the Bay of Pigs invasion is because it was so unsuccessful.

And vietnam was succseful? besides that was a french mess in the first place it was the French that made them go communist through oppresion. and you think america doesnt regret Vietnam are you kidding me have you see the pictures from the sixties all those protests and riots?

god your such a hippocrit. My guess your British right i could say the same thing about England not regreting what you did to Ireland or India in times past or what you helped the french do to Germany after world war I.
That doesnt make it true How the hell would you know what we regret and dont regret and why you dont even live here are you going to come take a poll of what America regrets?

No instead You make meaningless ignorant assumptions about all americans based on what nothing.

Ok i am going to blow your assumptions right here i am american and i regret those things so please keep your ignorance to yourself.

Why do so many leftists think that Clinton was good? He was a right-wing president who tried to look "liberal".
Because the alternative was much, much worse.

It must be nice to live in Europe and not be biased or anything negative.

Must be nice to have such intelligent Europeans knowing so much more about America and it's history than what the dumb ass Americans know about there homeland.

Us, dumbass Americans, are just in denial about everthing. The fact remains is we are Satan and have founded the Land of Hell.

Man why are we so stupid, Must be nice to be the all knowing Europeans. Maybe the world should be so much like the Europeans. I wish I was a European, they just so smart and us damn Americans are such idiots.

(I hope you aren't to gullable to see that I am simply being sarcastic)

I don't have a problem with Europeans, in fact, I like most of the Europeans. The ones that I despise are the all knowing ones who only speak out of there own anger and miserable lives and bigoted one sided views.

To those I say get a life, get over it, and to you, You have earned the famous one finger salute.....:upyours: :D

Because the alternative was much, much worse.

You mean bush senior and Dole hahaha ya. and i dont want a conservitave or liberal president the key is MODERATE which is what Clinton was we havent had a liberal president in oh well awhile. hehehe but we have had reagan and bush i think that makes up all the conservitaves we need for oh about another 50 years or so. Hopefuly forever.

It must be nice to live in Europe and not be biased or anything negative.

Must be nice to have such intelligent Europeans knowing so much more about America and it's history than what the dumb ass Americans know about there homeland.

Us, dumbass Americans, are just in denial about everthing. The fact remains is we are Satan and have founded the Land of Hell.

Man why are we so stupid, Must be nice to be the all knowing Europeans. Maybe the world should be so much like the Europeans. I wish I was a European, they just so smart and us damn Americans are such idiots.

(I hope you aren't to gullable to see that I am simply being sarcastic)

I don't have a problem with Europeans, in fact, I like most of the Europeans. The ones that I despise are the all knowing ones who only speak out of there own anger and miserable lives and bigoted one sided views.

To those I say get a life, get over it, and to you, You have earned the famous one finger salute.....:upyours: :D
hehehe one finger salute hahahaha. lol.

Vietnam, Guatemala, El Salvador, etc...

The only reason they regret the Bay of Pigs invasion is because it was so unsuccessful.

Nobody's proud of what we did in Vietnam. If anything, there are the group that hates it and the people who fought there and the group that hates it but thinks we should support the people who had to go over there. I'd say the latter is the vast majority. And as Strummerville said, Vietnam was almost the exact opposite of successful.

As for Guatemala and El Salvador, again, I think ignorance overrides apathy here. I don't think people know anything about it.

Because the alternative was much, much worse.
That doesn't mean Clinton was good. You must surely be ignorant of Clinton's actions to think he was good.