NationStates Jolt Archive

On September 15th, quarterly tax payments were due. The U.S. Treasury received almost $86 Billion -- that's $86 thousand millions for you Europeans. It is almost 20% higher than the same quarter last year and nearly 12% higher year-to-date.
article here (http://today.reuters.com/news/articlebusiness.aspx?type=ousiv&storyID=2006-09-18T235431Z_01_N18317729_RTRIDST_0_BUSINESSPRO-ECONOMY-RECEIPTS-DC.XML&from=business)

This means that:
1. We're seeing record profits out of business in the U.S.
2. The tax cuts are working precisely as planned
3. The government is not short on cash.
4. The deficit is going to be smaller than expected.
5. If the government can rake in this kind of cash, it's too damned big.

In general, this is pretty good news. And it's not due to any 'bump' in accounting, this time.

Tax receipts for the year are running 11.7 percent higher than last year, Treasury Undersecretary Randal Quarles said in a statement. Even so, analysts expected corporate tax receipts for the quarter to be in line with or lower than the $63 billion collected in September 2005 because of a one-time bump from a temporary repatriation of foreign earnings last year.

"In fact, we seem to have beat it by something on the order of 10 percent," said Lou Crandall, chief economist with Wrightson-ICAP in Jersey City, New Jersey.

And that's too bad for Democrats that want us to think that the economy is in the toilet.

On September 15th, quarterly tax payments were due. The U.S. Treasury received almost $86 Billion -- that's $86 thousand millions for you Europeans. It is almost 20% higher than the same quarter last year and nearly 12% higher year-to-date.
article here (http://today.reuters.com/news/articlebusiness.aspx?type=ousiv&storyID=2006-09-18T235431Z_01_N18317729_RTRIDST_0_BUSINESSPRO-ECONOMY-RECEIPTS-DC.XML&from=business)

This means that:
1. We're seeing record profits out of business in the U.S.
2. The tax cuts are working precisely as planned
3. The government is not short on cash.
4. The deficit is going to be smaller than expected.
5. If the government can rake in this kind of cash, it's too damned big.

In general, this is pretty good news. And it's not due to any 'bump' in accounting, this time.

And that's too bad for Democrats that want us to think that the economy is in the toilet.
And how much, may I ask, has spending increased at the same time?

And that's too bad for Democrats that want us to think that the economy is in the toilet.I know you don't like to make the distinction, but I'm going to keep pointing it out to you--the economy is in the toilet for working class people. Wages have been stagnant for the last five years, not even keeping up with inflation, and housing and energy costs are kicking our asses. Corporate profits are up, true, and lots of people at the top of the economy are doing great, but people in the middle and bottom are getting hammered, which is why the Democrats are making hay in that area even though the economy is, in many ways, strong.

I know you don't like to make the distinction, but I'm going to keep pointing it out to you--the economy is in the toilet for working class people. Wages have been stagnant for the last five years, not even keeping up with inflation, and housing and energy costs are kicking our asses. Corporate profits are up, true, and lots of people at the top of the economy are doing great, but people in the middle and bottom are getting hammered, which is why the Democrats are making hay in that area even though the economy is, in many ways, strong.

Let me get both of these before I head back to meetings.

1. Apparently spending has been controlled enough to cause revision in the defict. Read the last couple paragraphs about revising the forecasts for next year. Spending sucks, I agree. That's why I don't vote for Republicans, either.

2. I love making the distinction between rich and poor people. But the common thing is that most all of both groups are "working". It's just different work. But the interesting thing is that a lot of those that make more, still find ways to employ those that make less.

It's even more true with business. If a business isn't making money, I'll guarantee that they don't keep paying employees. So it's a whole lot better to see them profit. That means expansion, or at the worst, maintenance of the status quo. That means fewer layoffs. And I'd rather have stagnant wages than unemployment compensation.

I know you don't like to make the distinction, but I'm going to keep pointing it out to you--the economy is in the toilet for working class people. Wages have been stagnant for the last five years, not even keeping up with inflation, and housing and energy costs are kicking our asses. Corporate profits are up, true, and lots of people at the top of the economy are doing great, but people in the middle and bottom are getting hammered, which is why the Democrats are making hay in that area even though the economy is, in many ways, strong.

I agree.

My point, Myrmidonisia, is that it's hard to convince a wage slave that the economy is booming when he's still struggling to make ends meet because he hasn't seen a raise in two years and is farther behind now than he was five years ago because a larger percentage of his take home pay goes to gas and electricity and food than it did before his last raise. You said Democrats want us to think that the economy is in the toilet. My point is that for a lot of Democrats (and poor Republicans) the economy is in the toilet, no matter how much economists tell us otherwise.

2. I love making the distinction between rich and poor people. But the common thing is that most all of both groups are "working". It's just different work. But the interesting thing is that a lot of those that make more, still find ways to employ those that make less.

It's even more true with business. If a business isn't making money, I'll guarantee that they don't keep paying employees. So it's a whole lot better to see them profit. That means expansion, or at the worst, maintenance of the status quo. That means fewer layoffs. And I'd rather have stagnant wages than unemployment compensation.

"Working Class" is a definition of the middle-class and the working poor. You can try and include the wealthy but it don't fly.

You are correct about job creation. We created 3 positions in the US and 58 in India.

Finally stagnant wages will hurt the economy as the purchasing power of the "working class" does not keep up with price increases of Medical, Gas, Heating and electricty, food, and school(my kids public school does fund raising and we had to donate all sorts of supplies).

My point, Myrmidonisia, is that it's hard to convince a wage slave that the economy is booming when he's still struggling to make ends meet because he hasn't seen a raise in two years and is farther behind now than he was five years ago because a larger percentage of his take home pay goes to gas and electricity and food than it did before his last raise. You said Democrats want us to think that the economy is in the toilet. My point is that for a lot of Democrats (and poor Republicans) the economy is in the toilet, no matter how much economists tell us otherwise.

Say it brahdah! ;)

My wife has to go back to work so we can make ends meet in this "booming" economy.

Say it brahdah! ;)

My wife has to go back to work so we can make ends meet in this "booming" economy.

My g/f and I are both working full-time and barely eking it out down here, and that's without owning our home or having new cars. Hell, my car is 7 years old, and it's the new one.

My g/f and I are both working full-time and barely eking it out down here, and that's without owning our home or having new cars. Hell, my car is 7 years old, and it's the new one.

You live in Boca Raton, right? That's why I turned down a job at FAU -- I wouldn't have been able to _ever_ own a home. I do now, but I still have the '95 Mercedes with 189,000 miles on it. I probably make twice what you and you're girlfriend make, but my wife and I have different expenses -- three daughters at private colleges.

Now that you've dried your eyes, either laughing or weeping over my plight, remember, it's all still better than unemployment.

Anyway, I really have lived check-to-check, but I'd still like to think that having a place to go to work every day, rather than hanging out at the union hall or at the unemployment office, was the better option. When things really sucked, I got a part-time job to make the ends meet. The thing is that when business and the well-off are doing well, that part-time job is always there. Not so when the economy really sucks.

So my claim is still that the economy is good. We're victims of our choices. You choose a low-salary job in a high-cost area and have to make the best of it. I doubt that you would see a great increase in your standard of living no matter what. State Universities are very stingy. And Boca will never cost less.

Now, I really do need to go. I'll catch up this evening.

You live in Boca Raton, right? That's why I turned down a job at FAU -- I wouldn't have been able to _ever_ own a home. I do now, but I still have the '95 Mercedes with 189,000 miles on it. I probably make twice what you and you're girlfriend make, but my wife and I have different expenses -- three daughters at private colleges.

Now that you've dried your eyes, either laughing or weeping over my plight, remember, it's all still better than unemployment.

Anyway, I really have lived check-to-check, but I'd still like to think that having a place to go to work every day, rather than hanging out at the union hall or at the unemployment office, was the better option. When things really sucked, I got a part-time job to make the ends meet. The thing is that when business and the well-off are doing well, that part-time job is always there. Not so when the economy really sucks.

So my claim is still that the economy is good. We're victims of our choices. You choose a low-salary job in a high-cost area and have to make the best of it. I doubt that you would see a great increase in your standard of living no matter what. State Universities are very stingy. And Boca will never cost less.

Now, I really do need to go. I'll catch up this evening.
Not in Boca, but close enough, and I'm not really crying the blues over my financial situation. If I'd wanted to be wealthy, or even fully middle class, I wouldn't have gone into academia, that's for sure. And south Florida is a unique case because the housing market has been overheated for a really long time--though it's about to crash, and hard.

I get the feeling that we're talking past each other a bit here. I'm not denying that the economy is strong in terms of profits. I'm just saying that that strength isn't translating downward to the working poor, and they're feeling the pinch more because prices for things they can't do without are going up but their wages, for the most part, aren't.

I'm not denying that the economy is strong in terms of profits. I'm just saying that that strength isn't translating downward to the working poor, and they're feeling the pinch more because prices for things they can't do without are going up but their wages, for the most part, aren't.

which is often all you need for traction in starting major social upheavals of various sorts

Not in Boca, but close enough, and I'm not really crying the blues over my financial situation. If I'd wanted to be wealthy, or even fully middle class, I wouldn't have gone into academia, that's for sure. And south Florida is a unique case because the housing market has been overheated for a really long time--though it's about to crash, and hard.

I get the feeling that we're talking past each other a bit here. I'm not denying that the economy is strong in terms of profits. I'm just saying that that strength isn't translating downward to the working poor, and they're feeling the pinch more because prices for things they can't do without are going up but their wages, for the most part, aren't.

Wait, do you teach at FAU (am I that slow...?) Aren't they the ones with the kick ass film graduate program that basicly gives you a a 10 tonne production truck to do your student film?

I'm scheming...this is my scheming face...

I love it when lefties complain about rising medical and gas prices, which, coincidentally, also happen to have a massive amount of government intervention. Hint: It's not the "class enemy" that's causing the problem.

Wait, do you teach at FAU (am I that slow...?) Aren't they the ones with the kick ass film graduate program that basicly gives you a a 10 tonne production truck to do your student film?

I'm scheming...this is my scheming face...

Don't know about the film program, but that is indeed where I teach. We're apparently most famous for our submarine building program, which wins national awards every year.

I love it when lefties complain about rising medical and gas prices, which, coincidentally, also happen to have a massive amount of government intervention. Hint: It's not the "class enemy" that's causing the problem.

wow, that's stupid even for a right-winger

wow, that's stupid even for a right-winger

Bastard! You beat me to it! :p

On September 15th, quarterly tax payments were due. The U.S. Treasury received almost $86 Billion -- that's $86 thousand millions for you Europeans. It is almost 20% higher than the same quarter last year and nearly 12% higher year-to-date.
article here (http://today.reuters.com/news/articlebusiness.aspx?type=ousiv&storyID=2006-09-18T235431Z_01_N18317729_RTRIDST_0_BUSINESSPRO-ECONOMY-RECEIPTS-DC.XML&from=business)

This means that:
1. We're seeing record profits out of business in the U.S.
2. The tax cuts are working precisely as planned
3. The government is not short on cash.
4. The deficit is going to be smaller than expected.
5. If the government can rake in this kind of cash, it's too damned big.

In general, this is pretty good news. And it's not due to any 'bump' in accounting, this time.

And that's too bad for Democrats that want us to think that the economy is in the toilet.

All that means is you're doing better than last year, if last year was absolutely awful (and I don't remember if they were or not) then the figures dont mean all that much, you need more data to make a pronouncement about the economy.

Now that you've dried your eyes, either laughing or weeping over my plight, remember, it's all still better than unemployment.

Anyway, I really have lived check-to-check, but I'd still like to think that having a place to go to work every day, rather than hanging out at the union hall or at the unemployment office, was the better option. When things really sucked, I got a part-time job to make the ends meet. The thing is that when business and the well-off are doing well, that part-time job is always there. Not so when the economy really sucks.

So my claim is still that the economy is good. We're victims of our choices. You choose a low-salary job in a high-cost area and have to make the best of it. I doubt that you would see a great increase in your standard of living no matter what. State Universities are very stingy. And Boca will never cost less.

Now, I really do need to go. I'll catch up this evening.

You listen to Boortz right?

The economy is good for some but it's nothing or bad for the middle and poor classes.

The fact one spectrum is doing well does not define it as good for all.

What jobs people choose does not dissolve the claim of things being bad or mediocre.

The wage-slaves are an integral part of the economy. At least until we get robots to do all the work.

All that means is you're doing better than last year, if last year was absolutely awful (and I don't remember if they were or not) then the figures dont mean all that much, you need more data to make a pronouncement about the economy.

The wealthy are doing signifigantly better, but for everyone not making six figures it really sucks. With the implosion of the housing market I'm sure it'll look worse.

Don't know about the film program, but that is indeed where I teach. We're apparently most famous for our submarine building program, which wins national awards every year.

Ah to hell with the grad school film degree then, I want them to build me a Lotus that turns into a sub like James Bond!

[/hijack...you guys had it all handled, so I did some 'just for mes'...]

Our economy is doing great. I think that one of the best investments a fellow can make is to buy a straight up index fund.

I hate quarterly taxes! For people who are not on a salary you can really get screwed if you have a really good prior year followed by an average or below average one. You pay your estimated quarterlies based on the good prior year but you do not have the same cashflow and meanwhile your mortgages and student loans and bills still have to be paid. It would be enough to drive a man to drink if he could even aford to buy the liquor!

If the economists can buy a new car, they say it's a good year. If they can't, then they say that the economy's down. You say the economy's up this year? Too bad we're not all economists.

This means that:
1. We're seeing record profits out of business in the U.S.
2. The tax cuts are working precisely as planned
3. The government is not short on cash.
4. The deficit is going to be smaller than expected.
5. If the government can rake in this kind of cash, it's too damned big.

Countries like China are the only reason the US government can be spending all the money it is. It needs all the revenue it can get.

My g/f and I are both working full-time and barely eking it out down here, and that's without owning our home or having new cars. Hell, my car is 7 years old, and it's the new one.

I know. More and more money may be coming in but those who need it most, who are struggling to make ends meet aren't seeing an improvement in their situation. And when a good sum is being spent on war it makes it hard to give the money to improve the lives of those who need it. I for one see no sign of improvement. If anything, things are more expensive then ever.

I know you don't like to make the distinction, but I'm going to keep pointing it out to you--the economy is in the toilet for working class people. Wages have been stagnant for the last five years, not even keeping up with inflation, and housing and energy costs are kicking our asses. Corporate profits are up, true, and lots of people at the top of the economy are doing great, but people in the middle and bottom are getting hammered, which is why the Democrats are making hay in that area even though the economy is, in many ways, strong.

Wages at the lower end of the scale have been stagnant for the last 33 years...there's been no such thing as an 80's or 90's boom for the lower end, especially unskilled or semiskilled manufacturing.

It's been rough for over a generation, and sadly doesn't appear to be getting better any time soon.

I know. More and more money may be coming in but those who need it most, who are struggling to make ends meet aren't seeing an improvement in their situation. And when a good sum is being spent on war it makes it hard to give the money to improve the lives of those who need it. I for one see no sign of improvement. If anything, things are more expensive then ever.

My car is 7 years old and I am proud of it. I hope to drive it for another 3 years at least. My aint yet wife yet (fiancee) is appaulled at the idea of me driving around an old car but I am proud because it shows that I am not flashy. Plus, I love my car and could not imagine how bummed I would be if I ever got a different car.

If I did not have to pay so much income tax my financial picture would be so much less bleak. I do not mind paying to kill A-Rabs but when I see teenagers with bastard children and I know that I am paying for it because some slut is all pro life it makes me so mad. I have yelled at them and they look at me like I am from Mars and they tell me it is none of my business. How can my tax dollars not be my business?

wow, that's stupid even for a right-winger

Because...?

I love it when lefties complain about rising medical and gas prices, which, coincidentally, also happen to have a massive amount of government intervention. Hint: It's not the "class enemy" that's causing the problem.

Right ... cause record profits for oil companies are due to government intervention and not due to monopsony power?

In general, this is pretty good news. And it's not due to any 'bump' in accounting, this time.


And how much less is your dollar worth than when Bush took office?

Right ... cause record profits for oil companies are due to government intervention and not due to monopsony power?

Well, if you shell out a shitload of money to your buddies, regulate everything so that no one can start up their own oil company, make it impossible to drill in your own backyard making even more capital necessary, and generally make it impossible to unseat the biggest powers in the industry, what do you really expect? Low prices and high competition?

Don't know about the film program, but that is indeed where I teach. We're apparently most famous for our submarine building program, which wins national awards every year.

Wow... It's a small world after all.

Both of my parents worked at FAU for a while (when I was 4). We left after a year and a half because we couldn't afford to live in Florida anymore (My 'lil bro was born, and dad took a job outside of academia when both he and my mother were unable to get grants).

Not in Boca, but close enough, and I'm not really crying the blues over my financial situation. If I'd wanted to be wealthy, or even fully middle class, I wouldn't have gone into academia, that's for sure. And south Florida is a unique case because the housing market has been overheated for a really long time--though it's about to crash, and hard.

I get the feeling that we're talking past each other a bit here. I'm not denying that the economy is strong in terms of profits. I'm just saying that that strength isn't translating downward to the working poor, and they're feeling the pinch more because prices for things they can't do without are going up but their wages, for the most part, aren't.

A few more good quarters and more moves, or lack of them, like the Fed made today and we should see the whole economy heat up. As long as the corporate sector is making money, it's got to benefit the whole employee structure. I have no doubt at all that the people that run businesses want to reward their employees, as well as their stockholders -- if they're public. Maybe business is just waiting to see if the ten--year tax cuts are made permanent before they start expanding?

And like I said earlier, we're all victims of our choices. Not everyone can have a $100K per year as a longshoreman, some of us need to work at McDonalds, too. If I'm not making what I think I should, it's time to either move on or get a second job.

The real tragedy in this report is that the government collects so much money in taxes. The size of the government is what's really wrong with it.

The real tragedy in this report is that the government collects so much money in taxes. The size of the government is what's really wrong with it.Well, the size of the government and getting what little we get is what's wrong with it; government would likely have to be this large in order to supply us with national healthcare.

A few more good quarters and more moves, or lack of them, like the Fed made today and we should see the whole economy heat up. As long as the corporate sector is making money, it's got to benefit the whole employee structure. I have no doubt at all that the people that run businesses want to reward their employees, as well as their stockholders -- if they're public. Maybe business is just waiting to see if the ten--year tax cuts are made permanent before they start expanding?

And like I said earlier, we're all victims of our choices. Not everyone can have a $100K per year as a longshoreman, some of us need to work at McDonalds, too. If I'm not making what I think I should, it's time to either move on or get a second job.

The real tragedy in this report is that the government collects so much money in taxes. The size of the government is what's really wrong with it.

Actually, the employees are often the last people to see any benefit from corporate profit. The stockholders get paid first, last and always, unless there's a very powerful CEO who wants it differently, and you can guess about how often that happens. What you're describing is the corporate version of trickle-down economics, and it works even worse in the private sector than it does in tax policy.

Seriously, if you were correct, then there's no way the gap between average worker pay and CEO pay would be over 400% now. It would be closer to what it was in the 60s and 70s, when it was closer to 40%.

There is nothing wrong with shareholders receiving dividends and or having their equity increase. In fact, unless the Social Security fairy comes down from hanging at the crib of the Invisible Pink Spaghetti Monster and saves Social Security, it would be impossible for any of us to retire without shareholders getting paid.

Shareholders are not a minority of people in America. Stock ownership in America is at an all time high. I wish it was at 100% but there are always a few half wits out there that would rather blow their money on bastard children, drugs, or booze than invest for their future.

There is also nothing wrong with CEO's getting salaries to reward them for growing the company. CEO's and other employees deserve to be paid for doing a great job.

Nobody seems to have come out and said these notions are wrong but I got the impression that some people were posting ideas indicative of a belief that the above is logically flawed or immoral. If you disagree with any of the above, I want to hear the arguments. Bring it on Pinkos!