NationStates Jolt Archive

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Sudan: Groups Exaggerate Darfur Crisis

UNITED NATIONS (AP) - Sudan's president claimed that human rights groups have exaggerated the crisis in Darfur to help their fundraising, and charged that demands for U.N. peacekeepers there are meant to protect Israel, carve up Sudan and get access to its oil reserves.

The United Nations and many rights groups say that fighting between rebels and government-backed militias in the region has killed more than 200,000 people and displaced 2.5 million since 2003.

"The picture that volunteer organizations try to give in order to solicit more assistance and more aid, have given a negative result," Omar al-Bashir told a news conference Tuesday.

An underfunded African Union force in Darfur has been largely unable to stop the violence, leading AU leaders and the U.N. Security Council to demand a takeover by the United Nations, with its deeper pockets and better resources.

Al-Bashir said the United Nations will not be allowed to take control of peacekeepers there under any circumstance, but did say that the African Union, which now runs the peacekeeping mission in Darfur, should be allowed to augment its forces with more logistics, advisers and other support.

Last month, the Security Council passed a resolution that would put the peacekeepers under U.N. control, but required Sudan's consent.

Speaking on the sidelines of the annual U.N. General Assembly debate, al-Bashir claimed that Zionist groups wanted to weaken Sudan and that Jewish organizations were behind dozens of recent rallies. He said Israel was spreading a lie that Sudanese Arabs are killing Sudanese Africans.

"We refuse to normalize with Israel, we refuse to deal with Israel," he said.

The fighting in Darfur has largely pitted Muslims against Muslims, though some identify themselves as African and others as Arab. The janjaweed, the Arab tribal militias unleashed by the government, are accused of some of the worst atrocities.

Al-Bashir said the African Union forces should be allowed to remain in Sudan until the region sees peace at last.

"We want the African Union to remain in Darfur until peace is re-established in Sudan," al-Bashir said.

Those comments suggest that the African Union will not face any resistance in renewing the peacekeeping force's mandate, which expires on Sept. 30.

In his speech to the U.N. General Assembly earlier Tuesday, President Bush called the Darfur killings a genocide, and said the AU force is "not strong enough" to protect the victims. He called for the force to be strengthened and demanded the U.N. take control.

Bush announced that he was naming Andrew Natsios, the former director of the U.S. Agency for International Development, as his special envoy for Sudan.

The United States and its allies are now weighing whether there are other options for confronting al-Bashir's government, including the possibility of military intervention despite his objections.

In her speech to the General Assembly, Liberian President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf said the stalemate over whether a U.N. or AU force should be deployed "demonstrates a lack of international will to address the sufferings and yearnings of the citizens and residents of Darfur."

Saying the U.N.'s obligation to protect the helpless and innocent must remain paramount, she called on the Security Council to act under Chapter 7 of the U.N. Charter, which allows military intervention, "to restore peace, security and stability to Darfur."

Okay now that is pathetic. Claiming Israel that the reason that you don't want them to stop a Genocide of Muslims of all people. Then claiming the fact that Israel is the one causing it, without any information to back it up. Is even sadder. But to be fair, the US response is: "Let the UN in or we'll order them to invade you!"

Okay now that is pathetic. Claiming Israel that the reason that you don't want them to stop a Genocide of Muslims of all people. Then claiming the fact that Israel is the one causing it, without any information to back it up. Is even sadder.
That's what antisemitism always has been. It's nothing new.

To be honest, my patience with the whole Darfur thing is running out. The UN is perfectly entitled to march in there and help where possible, regardless of what the retards in Khartoum are saying.

That's what antisemitism always has been. It's nothing new.

To be honest, my patience with the whole Darfur thing is running out. The UN is perfectly entitled to march in there and help where possible, regardless of what the retards in Khartoum are saying.

True but the US just needs to stop talking in the UN, anything we say can and will be used against the UN from now on.

Still the one reason why antisemitism sometimes works is that they have at least some sort of made up rumor or some fact taken the wrong way, in this case they just pulled this out of Nowhere. If they're going to blame *Insert Group* they should at least make up some crap to try and back it up.

morons. do they blame everything on israel?

morons. do they blame everything on israel?

It's just hyperbole. I doubt the President actually believes the shit he's spouting, although it makes little difference whether he does or doesn't.

Here we go again, "let's blame the Jews for the problems we caused ourselves" response. :rolleyes:

How come every problem in the world must be blamed on the rational, civilized, western nations?

That's what antisemitism always has been. It's nothing new.

To be honest, my patience with the whole Darfur thing is running out. The UN is perfectly entitled to march in there and help where possible, regardless of what the retards in Khartoum are saying.
I reckon there will be few nations willing to join this UN force if it is not supported by either by a sufficient military force of a major power or by the government in Khartum.

al-Bashir claimed that Zionist groups wanted to weaken Sudan and that Jewish organizations were behind dozens of recent rallies. He said Israel was spreading a lie that Sudanese Arabs are killing Sudanese Africans.

"We refuse to normalize with Israel, we refuse to deal with Israel," he said.

The sad thing is, some of his people probably want to hear just that. Nothing like pointing at an imaginary enemy to stir up a bit of patriotic support...

How come every problem in the world must be blamed on the rational, civilized, western nations?

but he is blaming Israel....

I think its safe to say that when a state cannot be trusted to not butcher its own citizens en mass they've effectively jetisoned their right to soveignty. Someone should march in there and sort those bastards out.

but he is blaming Israel....

:rolleyes:

but he is blaming Israel....

You don't agree that Israel is a rational, civilized, Western nation?

Okay now that is pathetic. Claiming Israel that the reason that you don't want them to stop a Genocide of Muslims of all people. Then claiming the fact that Israel is the one causing it, without any information to back it up. Is even sadder. But to be fair, the US response is: "Let the UN in or we'll order them to invade you!"

Of course. You can blame Israel for anything. Ones who are going to believe it will eat everything.

You don't agree that Israel is a rational, civilized, Western nation?

No.

Rational: based on the supremecy of one religion over all others? monoethnic? allows religious extremists a great deal of power?

Civilised: over 1,000 dead civilians, mostly women and children, in a failed attempt to defeat Hezbollah? Consistant human rights abuses and land grabs in the Palestine?

Western: Look at a map....

But I will concede it is a nation.

morons. do they blame everything on israel?

I once knew someone who blamed failing his uni course on George Bush. Seriously, he said that George Bush's policy in Iraq and Afghanistan had got him so worked up he couldn't concentrate on his exams.

I correctly stated that if he had spent more time working and less time smoking drugs then maybe he would have passed his course.

morons. do they blame everything on israel?

As a matter of fact, yes. Just ask OceanDrive.

Western: Look at a map....

Aren't Australia and New Zealand considered part of the Western world, even though they're located in the East?

Aren't Australia and New Zealand considered part of the Western world, even though they're located in the East?

Yes. The term "Western" isn't solely geographical.

In other news, it turns out that Isreal fixed the 2000 election, Caused the Great Depression, and is the sole cause of Global Warming.

No.

Rational: based on the supremecy of one religion over all others? monoethnic? allows religious extremists a great deal of power?

Civilised: over 1,000 dead civilians, mostly women and children, in a failed attempt to defeat Hezbollah? Consistant human rights abuses and land grabs in the Palestine?

Western: Look at a map....

But I will concede it is a nation.

Israel is not a theocratic state. Its citizens are free to worship as they choose and are able to freely and publicly voice opinions that could not be aired in any neighbouring countries. Fact: Israel is the only nation in the Greater Middle East to have legal Gay Pride parades, the only nation in the GME to have pro-marijuana parties - surrounded by nations where drug possession is punishable by death.

The difference between Israel and its enemies is that Israel recognises the death of civilians as unfortunate and regrettable, whereas its enemies view murder as an acceptable tactic. Many civilised Israelis recognise that Palastine deserves independence, it is a signaficant and vocal minority of Settlers who have opposed this.

Look at a map? Would you deny that Australia and New Zealand are Western (capital W) nations?

Yes. The term "Western" isn't solely geographical.

I figured as much. Thanks.

In other news, it turns out that Isreal fixed the 2000 election, Caused the Great Depression, and is the sole cause of Global Warming.

*takes notes*


:p

Israel is not a theocratic state. Its citizens are free to worship as they choose and are able to freely and publicly voice opinions that could not be aired in any neighbouring countries. Fact: Israel is the only nation in the Greater Middle East to have legal Gay Pride parades, the only nation in the GME to have pro-marijuana parties - surrounded by nations where drug possession is punishable by death.

The difference between Israel and its enemies is that Israel recognises the death of civilians as unfortunate and regrettable, whereas its enemies view murder as an acceptable tactic. Many civilised Israelis recognise that Palastine deserves independence, it is a signaficant and vocal minority of Settlers who have opposed this.

Look at a map? Would you deny that Australia and New Zealand are Western (capital W) nations?

It doesn't matter what you say. This is a symptom of a mutated BDS virus. Isreal Derangement Syndrome. (IDS) It causes one to repeatedly ignore the evidence of people calling for Jews to be killed and to just blame everything on Isreal. It can be suffered sumultaneously w/ BDS, alternating blame for everthing between Bush and Isreal randomly.

It doesn't matter what you say. This is a symptom of a mutated BDS virus. Isreal Derangement Syndrome. (IDS) It causes one to repeatedly ignore the evidence of people calling for Jews to be killed and to just blame everything on Isreal. It can be suffered sumultaneously w/ BDS, alternating blame for everthing between Bush and Isreal randomly.
For further examples see anything Oceandrive posts.

In other news, it turns out that Isreal fixed the 2000 election, Caused the Great Depression, and is the sole cause of Global Warming.

Yeah, Israel removed the Pirates, and that's why global warming exists! Goddamit, I knew there was a connection! :D

Yeah, Israel removed the Pirates, and that's why global warming exists! Goddamit, I knew there was a connection! :D

rofl

How come every problem in the world must be blamed on the rational, civilized, western nations?

How come every problem in the world must be blamed on the rational, civilized, western nations?

How come every problem in the world must be blamed on the rational, civilized, western nations?
QFT!

Israel is not a theocratic state. Its citizens are free to worship as they choose and are able to freely and publicly voice opinions that could not be aired in any neighbouring countries. Fact: Israel is the only nation in the Greater Middle East to have legal Gay Pride parades, the only nation in the GME to have pro-marijuana parties - surrounded by nations where drug possession is punishable by death.

The difference between Israel and its enemies is that Israel recognises the death of civilians as unfortunate and regrettable, whereas its enemies view murder as an acceptable tactic. Many civilised Israelis recognise that Palastine deserves independence, it is a signaficant and vocal minority of Settlers who have opposed this.

Look at a map? Would you deny that Australia and New Zealand are Western (capital W) nations?
It's not worth it, trying to argue using logic with people like that (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11707274&postcount=139). ;)

Here we go again, "let's blame the Jews for the problems we caused ourselves" response. :rolleyes:
Yeah, f*ckn Jews. Always making us blame them for our problems...:mad:

*snip*
Look at a map? Would you deny that Australia and New Zealand are Western (capital W) nations?

EXCUSE ME! I think you'll find That Australia is even more Western then both the UK and the US. We're so west, we're in the far east! Australia is the most west western nation.

morons. do they blame everything on israel?

HAHAHA is that a trick question. Well they blame a lot on America to. But usually find a way to tie that some how into Americas support of Israel

I think its safe to say that when a state cannot be trusted to not butcher its own citizens en mass they've effectively jetisoned their right to soveignty. Someone should march in there and sort those bastards out.

HAHAHAHA I couldnt agree anymore.

I once knew someone who blamed failing his uni course on George Bush. Seriously, he said that George Bush's policy in Iraq and Afghanistan had got him so worked up he couldn't concentrate on his exams.

I correctly stated that if he had spent more time working and less time smoking drugs then maybe he would have passed his course.

hey dont blame it on drugs either. maybe hes just dumb

In other news, it turns out that Isreal fixed the 2000 election, Caused the Great Depression, and is the sole cause of Global Warming.

NO SHIT oh sry for like quadruple posting.

morons. do they blame everything on israel?

nope not everything, America gets whatever blame that Isreal doesn't. Between the 2 they are blamed for everything. I guess that can be some sort of Team work. Go USA and Israel!!!

It's not worth it, trying to argue using logic with people like that (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11707274&postcount=139). ;)

WOW whistles. hmmm ignorance is bliss huh.

morons. do they blame everything on israel?

nope not everything, America gets whatever blame that Isreal doesn't. Between the 2 they are blamed for everything. I guess that can be some sort of Team work. Go USA and Israel!!! :D

Yeah, f*ckn Jews. Always making us blame them for our problems...:mad:

well if you look up F*CKIN Jews in the dictionary the definition goes something like this.

and i quote

"traditional scapegoat throughout history for any crazy ignorant dumbass half witted moron who cares to use them"

end quote

well if you look up F*CKIN Jews in the dictionary the definition goes something like this.

and i quote

"traditional scapegoat throughout history for any crazy ignorant dumbass half witted moron who cares to use them"

end quote

Jews, America, Parents, Society, MTV, rich people, poor people, and the government cop most of the flak for everything.Unfortunately, the people actually responsible for most of the world's problems are expert at deflecting blame to one of the above groups.

First of all, some statistics.

All stats from WDI online, a divison of the World Bank Initiative

Sudan's 2005 GDP: $27,699,430,000 (Current US $)
Sudan's military expenditure (% GDP: 2%)
2% of GDP = $5,539,886,000
Total military Personnel: 121,000

Okay so that's Sudan's ability to defend itself in a nutshell. That's the entire nation's ability to defend itself, disregarding the Janjaweed's strength (which should be assumed is not larger than the government's.) The Janjaweed were partially contained by an AU force of 6,000 troops. I am not sure why the UN doesn't seize this opportunity to present itself as a legitimate international institution in the 21st century. Even if Sudan throws its entire military might at a UN peacekeeping force, couldn't we posit that a UN force with all the technology the Western powers possess would be able to thwart it? Sudan is making threats of violence against the UN, and the very least the international community could do would be to drop a few billion dollars on ending a genocide. Nobody seems to be taking any initiative. Which leads me to the same conclusion that Sudan's government holds: that the international community is truly too disorganized to prevent atrocities. Or at least that the global hegemon in our system is inept. What would FDR say about this? I mean, for crying out loud, even George Clooney is desperate. Is the United States losing its grip on power abroad, or is oil more important than lives? We spend something like 13 times more on the military than the next 5 nations combined. Surely there are some automated planes or aircraft carrier strikes that we could pull out of our threadbare pockets and offer up to Mr. Annan. Sudan is calling the West's bluff. And as the statistics show, they really are in no position to make claims of aggression. Insofar as al-Bashir's claim that Israel is at fault, I say that the Israelis should take initiative and offer up some cash to end the government in Sudan. After all, isn't America's favorite pastime nation-building in underdeveloped regions?

Ok that is a fun game. Next time you hear a random Jew-basher, substitute the word 'Jew' with 'my parents', 'society', 'MTV', 'America', 'the Government', 'Rich people', 'Poor people', or 'Sinners'.

First of all, some statistics.

All stats from WDI online, a divison of the World Bank Initiative

Sudan's 2005 GDP: $27,699,430,000 (Current US $)
Sudan's military expenditure (% GDP: 2%)
2% of GDP = $5,539,886,000
Total military Personnel: 121,000

Okay so that's Sudan's ability to defend itself in a nutshell. That's the entire nation's ability to defend itself, disregarding the Janjaweed's strength (which should be assumed is not larger than the government's.) The Janjaweed were partially contained by an AU force of 6,000 troops. I am not sure why the UN doesn't seize this opportunity to present itself as a legitimate international institution in the 21st century. Even if Sudan throws its entire military might at a UN peacekeeping force, couldn't we posit that a UN force with all the technology the Western powers possess would be able to thwart it? Sudan is making threats of violence against the UN, and the very least the international community could do would be to drop a few billion dollars on ending a genocide. Nobody seems to be taking any initiative. Which leads me to the same conclusion that Sudan's government holds: that the international community is truly too disorganized to prevent atrocities. Or at least that the global hegemon in our system is inept. What would FDR say about this? I mean, for crying out loud, even George Clooney is desperate. Is the United States losing its grip on power abroad, or is oil more important than lives? We spend something like 13 times more on the military than the next 5 nations combined. Surely there are some automated planes or aircraft carrier strikes that we could pull out of our threadbare pockets and offer up to Mr. Annan. Sudan is calling the West's bluff. And as the statistics show, they really are in no position to make claims of aggression. Insofar as al-Bashir's claim that Israel is at fault, I say that the Israelis should take initiative and offer up some cash to end the government in Sudan. After all, isn't America's favorite pastime nation-building in underdeveloped regions?

Except any force will be composed of such militay powerhouses as Malayisa and Senegal. While UN peacekeepers have fought well in some cases, Malaysian APCs were pivotal in recusing US troops in the "Black Hawk Down" incident, they don't have the logistics or skills to invade and defeat the heavily mechanized Sudanese army with its internal supply lines.

Jews, America, Parents, Society, MTV, rich people, poor people, and the government cop most of the flak for everything.Unfortunately, the people actually responsible for most of the world's problems are expert at deflecting blame to one of the above groups.

Politicians are great at it.

Politicians are great at it.Thats what we pay them to do.

First of all, some statistics.

All stats from WDI online, a divison of the World Bank Initiative

Sudan's 2005 GDP: $27,699,430,000 (Current US $)
Sudan's military expenditure (% GDP: 2%)
2% of GDP = $5,539,886,000
Total military Personnel: 121,000

Okay so that's Sudan's ability to defend itself in a nutshell. That's the entire nation's ability to defend itself, disregarding the Janjaweed's strength (which should be assumed is not larger than the government's.) The Janjaweed were partially contained by an AU force of 6,000 troops. I am not sure why the UN doesn't seize this opportunity to present itself as a legitimate international institution in the 21st century. Even if Sudan throws its entire military might at a UN peacekeeping force, couldn't we posit that a UN force with all the technology the Western powers possess would be able to thwart it? Sudan is making threats of violence against the UN, and the very least the international community could do would be to drop a few billion dollars on ending a genocide. Nobody seems to be taking any initiative. Which leads me to the same conclusion that Sudan's government holds: that the international community is truly too disorganized to prevent atrocities. Or at least that the global hegemon in our system is inept. What would FDR say about this? I mean, for crying out loud, even George Clooney is desperate. Is the United States losing its grip on power abroad, or is oil more important than lives? We spend something like 13 times more on the military than the next 5 nations combined. Surely there are some automated planes or aircraft carrier strikes that we could pull out of our threadbare pockets and offer up to Mr. Annan. Sudan is calling the West's bluff. And as the statistics show, they really are in no position to make claims of aggression. Insofar as al-Bashir's claim that Israel is at fault, I say that the Israelis should take initiative and offer up some cash to end the government in Sudan. After all, isn't America's favorite pastime nation-building in underdeveloped regions?

Was our favorite past time. Now it is yeehaha grabbing that oil. And in Americas defense For once some other damn country could do something about attrocities. Granted Americas the best of the western powers to deal with this, but why is it always America that needs to deal with these nations. And if we mess up oh just another black spot on American military track record. I mean come on why dont the Europeans do something for once.

Granted if we werent so bogged down in Iraq a meaningless pointless war we might be able to do something, but no our almighty president decided sadam Huessien was more of a civil rights violator than whats going on in Darfur. Or maybe it was his Al-Queda connections you know the ones that never existed or those weapons of mass destruction ya those toys. Or maybe it was Oil gosh gee golly.

But really despite all that Europeans could do something once in awhile instead of alwasys shouldering the burden to America.

Thats what we pay them to do.

Hahaha what a great job Bullshit all day. Go to bed get up and Bullshit some more.
I swear to God they must eat Bullshit for breakfeast lunch and dinner to spew all that crap out.

I mean come on why dont the Europeans do something for once.

[...]

But really despite all that Europeans could do something once in awhile instead of alwasys shouldering the burden to America.

The depth of your ignorance astounds me.

The depth of your ignorance astounds me.

Really then explain. Tell me what Europe does for these third world countries that has been greater than what America has done.

Jews, America, Parents, Society, MTV, rich people, poor people, and the government cop most of the flak for everything.Unfortunately, the people actually responsible for most of the world's problems are expert at deflecting blame to one of the above groups.

you forgot myspace :D

The depth of your ignorance astounds me.

Still waiting for justification of that.:)

The depth of your ignorance astounds me.

lol your funny you no that you say i am ignorant but offer no explanation typical Arrogant crap. The simple fact is all of Europe cant equal the amount of aid America has given impoverished nations over the years. The simple fact is whenever the UN decided something militarily needed to be done who offered most of the troops America.
So explain to me how am i ignorant.

I once knew someone who blamed failing his uni course on George Bush. Seriously, he said that George Bush's policy in Iraq and Afghanistan had got him so worked up he couldn't concentrate on his exams.

I correctly stated that if he had spent more time working and less time smoking drugs then maybe he would have passed his course.

Take the boy out to the woodshed, and put your boot up his ass, several times. Usually clears up brain jams like that.

Except any force will be composed of such militay powerhouses as Malayisa and Senegal. While UN peacekeepers have fought well in some cases, Malaysian APCs were pivotal in recusing US troops in the "Black Hawk Down" incident, they don't have the logistics or skills to invade and defeat the heavily mechanized Sudanese army with its internal supply lines.

True that. And I suppose if a few Senagalese kids get slaughtered by the Sudanese, nobody will be too upset by it. I guess money and guns can't always ensure an army will win, despite the enormous imbalance of resources in the fight.
Back to the original discussion in this thread... Why is it always the Jews? Has it become some kind of psychological roadblock? Jung would say that we have developed a tick in our collective unconscious.