NationStates Jolt Archive


Homegrown Islamic terrorists in the U.S.?

PsychoticDan
19-09-2006, 18:14
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14902394/

WASHINGTON - U.S. prisons are becoming major breeding grounds for Islamic terrorists, but state and local authorities are too cash-strapped to prevent or track recruiting, a new report concludes.

The report, to be released Tuesday, found there aren’t enough legitimately trained Muslim religious leaders to counsel an estimated 9,000 U.S. prison inmates who want Islamic services. That allows Islamist extremists to target their vulnerable prison-mates with distorted versions of the Quran and other Muslim readings that urge radicalization and violence.

“Radicalized prisoners are a potential pool of recruits by terrorist groups,” concludes the joint study by George Washington University and the University of Virginia. “The U.S., with its large prison population, is at risk of facing the sort of homegrown terrorism currently plaguing other countries.”

Additionally, state and local prison officials struggle to track radical behavior changes of inmates or religious counselors. And staff and funding shortages limit preventative programs, the report found, noting that California officials “report that every investigation into radical groups in their prisons uncovers new leads, but they simply do not have enough investigators to follow every case of radicalization.”

An estimated 2 million people are imprisoned in the United States; 6 percent of them are Muslim, according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons.

Prisons have long been considered recruiting stations for gangs and, more recently, terrorists, but little has been done throughout government to combat them. The report, which will be released at a Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee hearing, comes as law enforcement and intelligence officials focus on finding out how and why extremist sympathizers cross a line to become operational terrorists.

The report cited several high-profile cases of terrorists who became radicalized while incarcerated, including British shoe bomber Richard Reid. It also noted what authorities call a foiled plot of a potential shooting rampage against California military facilities, synagogues and the Israeli Consulate in Los Angeles by followers of Kevin James, who founded the radical group Jamiyyat Ul-Islam Is-Saheeh, or JIS, as an inmate at California State Prison in Sacramento.

Lack of well-trained Muslim chaplains
Researchers interviewed federal, state and local prison officials, religious counselors and counterterror authorities in four states — California, New York, South Carolina and Ohio — and the District of Columbia. They concluded that federal prison authorities have made significant strides in collecting and sharing information to help monitor whether inmates are becoming radicalized.

But state and local prison officials have largely relied on contractors and volunteers to lead Islamic services because of a lack of well-trained Muslim chaplains, the report found. In New York, that led to several cases of “imams espousing violent views,” it said.

The report noted a 2004 study that found that about half of 193 prisons surveyed supervised religious services or monitored them with video or audio recorders. “In the absence of monitoring by authoritative Islamic chaplains, materials that advocate violence have infiltrated the prison system undetected,” it found.

Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, a counterterrorism consultant, said “chilling” interpretations of the Quran were given to prison inmates when he worked for the al-Haramain Islamic Foundation, an international charity that served as a major al-Qaida financier.

The readings urged Muslims “to wage war against non-Muslims who have not submitted to Islamic rule,” Gartenstein-Ross said in prepared testimony to the Senate panel, obtained Tuesday by The Associated Press.

“I know of only a few instances in which prisons rejected the literature we attempted to distribute — and it was never because of the literature’s radicalism,” said Gartenstein-Ross, who left the charity and converted to Christianity before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

Al-Haramain also created a database of names, release dates and forwarding addresses of 15,000 inmates considered to be ripe for recruitment, but it was never used, he said.

There's not enough Imams in our prisons so the Muslims are going to kill us.
Ultraextreme Sanity
19-09-2006, 18:21
Sure why not ...if you have been paying attention thats what AlQueda is aiming for ..and the purpose for all its messages.. cripes you have had to be in a hole or a coma for years not to know that...they want ALL Islam...the whole world body of Islam to take up the cause .

read their stuff ...its better than mein kampft and an easier read.

Death to the infidels !
Todays Lucky Number
19-09-2006, 18:23
why do you have prisons anyway? work them in uranium mines.
Wilgrove
19-09-2006, 18:24
why do you have prisons anyway? work them in uranium mines.

Because liberals thought that working them in the uranium mine was too cruel and mean. I say we should've have them dig to the center of the earth!
Todays Lucky Number
19-09-2006, 18:50
Because liberals thought that working them in the uranium mine was too cruel and mean. I say we should've have them dig to the center of the earth!

I'm quite liberal on many subjects but there are things contradicting yet necessary to ensure simple peoples safety. Like constantly destroying the top, most vicious layer of criminals. Yet giving others a way to redeem themselves through pain and hard work. They must not have the energy to rape each other, thats the criteria.
edit: yay 300 posts :D
The Nazz
19-09-2006, 18:52
There are only 9.000 US prison inmates who want Muslim services? That number seems surprisingly low, considering the huge number of inmates overall in the US.
PsychoticDan
19-09-2006, 18:56
There are only 9.000 US prison inmates who want Muslim services? That number seems surprisingly low, considering the huge number of inmates overall in the US.

Well, Islam is still a pretty small religion in the US and since somewhere around half of all inmates in CA are Hispanic, a culture pretty devoted to Catholicism, I wouldn't expect that large a number in our prisons.
The Nazz
19-09-2006, 19:04
Well, Islam is still a pretty small religion in the US and since somewhere around half of all inmates in CA are Hispanic, a culture pretty devoted to Catholicism, I wouldn't expect that large a number in our prisons.I'm guessing that the 9,000 doesn't include all the middle easterners still being held on immigration issues that came up after 9/11.
PsychoticDan
19-09-2006, 19:11
I'm guessing that the 9,000 doesn't include all the middle easterners still being held on immigration issues that came up after 9/11.

Yeah, I doubt they included Gitmo or any of the secret CIA prisons in Germany.
Vault 10
19-09-2006, 19:13
why do you have prisons anyway? work them in uranium mines.

Because they will steal uranium and use it to scare the populace.
Drunk commies deleted
19-09-2006, 19:30
There are only 9.000 US prison inmates who want Muslim services? That number seems surprisingly low, considering the huge number of inmates overall in the US.

Muslims in the US tend to be educated, middle to upper class, law abiding people.
PsychoticDan
19-09-2006, 19:31
Muslims in the US tend to be educated, middle to upper class, law abiding people.

Not if they're in prison...
Drunk commies deleted
19-09-2006, 19:33
Not if they're in prison...

Mainly the poor and uneducated go to prison. Martha Stewart and the enron gang are exceptions to the rule.
Zilam
19-09-2006, 19:41
OMFG! I think he is right!


Just a regular playground or not? (http://www.ches.ua.edu/departments/hd/cdrc%20pictures/cp%20-%20kids%20playground.JPG)
Drunk commies deleted
19-09-2006, 19:42
OMFG! I think he is right!


Just a regular playground or not? (http://www.ches.ua.edu/departments/hd/cdrc%20pictures/cp%20-%20kids%20playground.JPG)

I don't get it.
PsychoticDan
19-09-2006, 19:45
OMFG! I think he is right!


Just a regular playground or not? (http://www.ches.ua.edu/departments/hd/cdrc%20pictures/cp%20-%20kids%20playground.JPG)

:confused:
Todays Lucky Number
19-09-2006, 19:47
Mainly the poor and uneducated go to prison. Martha Stewart and the enron gang are exceptions to the rule.

yep people stupid enough to commit petty crimes.
The Nazz
19-09-2006, 19:48
yep people stupid enough to commit petty crimes.

Or too poor to have a lawyer good enough to get them probation instead of jail time.
Drunk commies deleted
19-09-2006, 19:49
yep people stupid enough to commit petty crimes.

No, petty criminals like me go to jail. Criminals who kill or rape folks go to prison. It's a greater degree of stupid.
Aryavartha
19-09-2006, 20:05
Almost all the cases of terrorists in the US (Virginia paintball jihadis, the Lodi Hayats, the school teacher Chandia etc) have been recent immigrants (predominantly from a particular "ally" country). Although some of them have US citizenship, like the Hayats, I doubt if they can be called "homegrown".

Even immigrant muslims in US tend to be better off (richer, educated, assimilated/integrated etc) than in the EU. Infinitely better than the UK which has a major problem in its hands.
Psychotic Mongooses
19-09-2006, 20:09
Because liberals thought that working them in the uranium mine was too cruel and mean. I say we should've have them dig to the center of the earth!

Nah. They might try and dig their way out.

"Dig UP, stupid."
Free Soviets
19-09-2006, 20:14
"an estimated 9,000 U.S. prison inmates who want Islamic services"

"An estimated 2 million people are imprisoned in the United States; 6 percent of them are Muslim, according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons."

wait a minute - those numbers don't add up. in perhaps two different ways, even.
PsychoticDan
19-09-2006, 20:20
Almost all the cases of terrorists in the US (Virginia paintball jihadis, the Lodi Hayats, the school teacher Chandia etc) have been recent immigrants (predominantly from a particular "ally" country). Although some of them have US citizenship, like the Hayats, I doubt if they can be called "homegrown".

Even immigrant muslims in US tend to be better off (richer, educated, assimilated/integrated etc) than in the EU. Infinitely better than the UK which has a major problem in its hands.

Okay, but this article is about the possibility that our prisons are becoming recruiting grounds for radical Islamic terrorists.
PsychoticDan
19-09-2006, 20:21
"an estimated 9,000 U.S. prison inmates who want Islamic services"

"An estimated 2 million people are imprisoned in the United States; 6 percent of them are Muslim, according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons."

wait a minute - those numbers don't add up. in perhaps two different ways, even.

I think one total is the amount of Muslims in prison and the other is about the Muslims in prison who lack an Imam.
Psychotic Mongooses
19-09-2006, 20:25
Okay, but this article is about the possibility that our prisons are becoming recruiting grounds for radical Islamic terrorists.

Which is more probable?

That, or having camps where verified extremists come into contact with innocents (who are only suspected extremists) held against their will in a legal black hole, to be sent home after years of poor treatment with a grudge against the U.S..... oh look, that extremist ideology is quite appealing right now?
Aryavartha
19-09-2006, 20:29
Okay, but this article is about the possibility that our prisons are becoming recruiting grounds for radical Islamic terrorists.

I would be more concerned about the educated and alienated young muslim, than the common crook in prison.

I have been following all instances (whatever makes the news atleast) of actual jihadi attacks and busted attacks, and in all instances it has been the former than the latter.

I agree that the latter may be recruited, but as of now it has not been the case.
PsychoticDan
19-09-2006, 20:35
Which is more probable?

That, or having camps where verified extremists come into contact with innocents (who are only suspected extremists) held against their will in a legal black hole, to be sent home after years of poor treatment with a grudge against the U.S..... oh look, that extremist ideology is quite appealing right now?

Okay, but there are all kinds of threads about Gitmo and the secret CIA prisons. This was just an article I came across about the possibility of people using prisons as recruitong grounds.
Psychotic Mongooses
19-09-2006, 20:37
Okay, but there are all kinds of threads about Gitmo and the secret CIA prisons. This was just an article I came across about the possibility of people using prisons as recruitong grounds.

Yes, but which do you think is more probable as a recruiting ground? And therefore, which should you be more worried about or focusing your energy on?
PsychoticDan
19-09-2006, 20:37
I would be more concerned about the educated and alienated young muslim, than the common crook in prison.

I have been following all instances (whatever makes the news atleast) of actual jihadi attacks and busted attacks, and in all instances it has been the former than the latter.

I agree that the latter may be recruited, but as of now it has not been the case.

Not all of them.

http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/P__richard-reid.jpg

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/LAW/09/09/padilla.ap/story.padilla.jpe
PsychoticDan
19-09-2006, 20:41
Yes, but which do you think is more probable as a recruiting ground? And therefore, which should you be more worried about or focusing your energy on?

To be honest, I'm a pretty busy guy right now working nearly 70 hours a week. I wish it could be different for me and hopefully after I get my Master's I'll be able to devote more time to saving the world, but right now in my life I really only have enough energy to work and post articles that I find interesting on some sites and discuss them. I'm not really deathly afraid of either because I understand that the likelyhood that I will be killed by an Islamist from Gitmo or Pelican Bay are rather slim for the time being, but I am concerned so I like to keep reading different news sites and discussion boards like this so I can keep abreast of world events and teh winds of opinion.
Meath Street
19-09-2006, 21:45
"an estimated 9,000 U.S. prison inmates who want Islamic services"

"An estimated 2 million people are imprisoned in the United States; 6 percent of them are Muslim, according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons."

wait a minute - those numbers don't add up. in perhaps two different ways, even.
Well, it tells us that most of the Muslims in US prison either don't care about their religion much, or are confident enough to not need an imam. Some Muslims in prison might have access to imams already.
Aryavartha
19-09-2006, 21:55
Not all of them.


Ah Richard Reid, the "shoe bomber" and Jose Padilla, the "dirty bomber".

Other than these two "expendables", the more dangerous ones, the ones who have actually succeeded, have been almost always from the educated, middle-class/affluent, alienated young muslim (9/11, 7/11, etc).

I agree that it might be easier to recruit foot soldiers/cannon fodder from the prison group (as in indoctrinating them and sending them with a bomb). But I am more concerned about the group that I mentioned who are a rung above these. They are potentially more dangerous as in they have more chance of beating the security (no cirminal record, can avoid behaviour profiling with more "mainstream urban youth" behaviour etc).

I still hate Richard Reid though, that one idiot made all of us take off our shoes at the airport.:mad:
PsychoticDan
19-09-2006, 22:14
the more dangerous ones, the ones who have actually succeeded, have been almost always from the educated, middle-class/affluent, alienated young muslim ( 7/11, etc).

Educted, middle class, alienated Muslims work at 7/11? :confused:
Aryavartha
19-09-2006, 22:58
Educted, middle class, alienated Muslims work at 7/11? :confused:

Sorry 7/7 (London tube attacks):p
Drunk commies deleted
19-09-2006, 22:59
Educted, middle class, alienated Muslims work at 7/11? :confused:

I'm sure some of them own 7/11 franchises and they and their families work at them.
Free Soviets
20-09-2006, 01:49
I think one total is the amount of Muslims in prison and the other is about the Muslims in prison who lack an Imam.

quite probably

that still leaves one other way that the numbers don't really add up (unless you happen to know something about the nature of the united states justice system)
--Somewhere--
20-09-2006, 04:54
I don't think there needs to be more imams in prison, the imams themselves may be extremists. I think it would be more effective to closely monitor the behaviour of inmates. If one of them starts trying to recruit other prisoners into islam, dump them in solitary confinement for the rest of their sentence.