NationStates Jolt Archive

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.


charlie sheen needs to stop telling his life story to people. its really throwing them for a loop.

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

Eh?

A very, very simple question that wouldn't test anyone of faith at all. While it could be that he doesn't remember what happened, a far more obvious explanation is that an all knowing God would, er, know that he was going to be revived and so your friend wouldn't leave his body.

One of those dead for 2 seconds dealies? Maybe St.Peter dosen't work that fast, he has alot of work to do.

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

There are several possible solutions.
Is your friend of the religious sort?
If not, the answer is fairly obvious.

Maybe he doesnt remember. He was dead at the time. Lots of people 'die' and dont get the 'light at the end of the tunnel'.

If he says he is religious, maybe hes lying in order to pick up hot religious chicks >_>

Maybe he had an intensly personal experience while 'dead', and didnt want to share it.

Theres about a thosand other possibilities, which I am FAR too lazy to list.

As the new Pope I officially excommunicate this thread.

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

Lag thats how

Even jesus had it

Took 3 days to respawn

http://geek.upwardthrust.us/pictures/lag.jpg

As the new Pope I officially excommunicate this thread.
is that good or bad?

How do you know he wasn't lying?

I have had several revelatory experiences. I have experienced god. My anecdotes are as powerful as proof for god as your anecdote is proof against god.


In other words, you want me to believe your friend when he says he didn't see god.

I will believe that, if you say you believe me when I say I did see god.

hey guys, i no this is kind of irrelevant but whats with the whole "in soviet russia tea drinks you!" or "in soviet russia thread spam you!" just to give a couple of examples
can anyone explain? ty
and personally im a athist so when you die your body shuts down, but then a nice bf2 medic might come along in 15 seconds and revive you
:mp5: :sniper:

"clear!" "alright buddy your good to go get back to the fight!"

While technically people say that they were dead, a stopped heart doesn't mean he's dead, just that his heart isn't beating and he isn't breathing anymore. If he was brain dead along with the no breathing no beating thing and then somehow came back to life, then it might hold a little more sway. You're not really being brought back to life, you're just having your heart recharged before your brain dies from lack of oxygen. So really he was brought back from nearly dead, not death itself.

A very, very simple question that wouldn't test anyone of faith at all. While it could be that he doesn't remember what happened, a far more obvious explanation is that an all knowing God would, er, know that he was going to be revived and so your friend wouldn't leave his body.

right......

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

God didn't want him.

Why is it so important to you that there is no God?

How do you know he wasn't lying?

I have had several revelatory experiences. I have experienced god. My anecdotes are as powerful as proof for god as your anecdote is proof against god.


In other words, you want me to believe your friend when he says he didn't see god.

I will believe that, if you say you believe me when I say I did see god.

If he saw god or heaven, I imagine he would want to share that so people could be "saved" so theres no reason to lie. btw, when you saw god were you in an altered mental state by chance? I'm not picking on you I just want to know.

hey guys, i no this is kind of irrelevant but whats with the whole "in soviet russia tea drinks you!" or "in soviet russia thread spam you!" just to give a couple of examples
can anyone explain? ty
and personally im a athist so when you die your body shuts down, but then a nice bf2 medic might come along in 15 seconds and revive you
:mp5: :sniper:

"clear!" "alright buddy your good to go get back to the fight!"

gun smilies in the 1st post. never fails

A human definition of death does not necessarily equate to a divine definition of death.

As someone said earlier, just because someones heart stops beating does not mean that their soul has left the building, so to speak.

And to be perfectly honest, you can't prove god does not exist, just as you can't prove he does exist.

gun smilies in the 1st post. never fails

In Soviet Russia, first post fails YOU!
>_>
<_<

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

anyone else find this reasoning humorous?

anyone else find this reasoning humorous?

Circular reasoning is your friend!

Lag thats how

Even jesus had it

Took 3 days to respawn

http://geek.upwardthrust.us/pictures/lag.jpg

Lmao!

I'll start off by saying I don't belive in God.

http://www.send2press.com/newswire/2005-02-0225-005.shtml

It's kinda biased don't you think when you only have one point of reference? Many people experence many things. Maybe he forgot all of it. Everyone dreams. Not everyone remembers them. Could he have forgotten? Now I will state again I don't belive in a God. I just think this thread is ridiculous and I am ashamed that I wasted my time on it. I personally think that discussing the existance of God is retarded on an internet forum, and it only stirs crap up. Because no one is going to change their stance over someone's post.

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

Maybe he just blacked out?

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.
Yup, really solid proof there. :rolleyes:

looks like your friend might be slated for purgatory? :p

Have a terrific day.

If he saw god or heaven, I imagine he would want to share that so people could be "saved" so theres no reason to lie. btw, when you saw god were you in an altered mental state by chance? I'm not picking on you I just want to know.

That's okay. That's normally the first question people ask.:)

No. I was not in an altered state for all of them. There were 3 major ones, and about a dozen minor ones. The big three: one was a lucid dream, but the other two were spontaneous and seemingly inexplicable by drugs, illness, sleep or food deprivation, or any other thing that normally induces hallucinations.

About half of the minor ones were self induced through 'mystic experiments', as I don't know what else to call them. But that's a whole other story.

The rest were spontaneous revelations. The one that taught me the most about god happened while I was at work. And I would have to say this: if your friend saw heaven and god the same way I did, he would realise that getting people to believe in the Christian heaven would not get them one step closer to god's grace.

I have been thinking very carefully about my experiences for many years. Only now am I beginning to speak of them. There are many reasons for staying silent. Perhaps your friend is staying silent for the same reasons.

It is also possible he didn't experience anything or does not remember it.

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

What do you mean by 'died'? Heart stopped? Brain death? Did his soul (assuming such a thing exists as we must for while if we're discussing 'the afterlife') leave and 'ascend to heaven', as it were? How would you know?

What if he was going to hell, and hell was nothingness?

What if it was a trick by the devil (assuming _he_ exists!), knowing your friend was likely to be resusitated, and the experience, the memory of it, or its interpretation was designed to decieve?

Actualy, how do you remember what _only_ your soul experiences (again, assuming such a thing exists) when it's left its ties with your physical form, it's not part of your brain, and not even directly analogous to your mind, and can lay down no memories in of itself? How would you remember any experience, white lights or otherwise?

Your friend's experience doesn't confirm or rule out anything - the rules for scientific proof do not apply for something inherently unfalsifyable, such as the existence of souls and the afterlife. We can't prove that they do or do not exist - some people on both sides of the debate need learn to live with this limitation to the discussion, and move on.

Not only is this a stupid arguement, there could be a million reasons.

But lack of afterlife DOES NOT DISPROVE A GOD.

Not only is this a stupid arguement, there could be a million reasons.

But lack of afterlife DOES NOT DISPROVE A GOD.

It just means the afterlife is really going to suck.

He wasn't actually going to die so he wouldn't have seen anything. That or you can't come back with memory of the other side. This proves nothing.

the belief of some christians is that no one goes to heaven once they die, but they wait. they dont realize they are waiting because the time it takes will only feel like a second. they wait untill the scond comming. where all the souls will then be raised or something like that

*lacks in religious studies*

the belief of some christians is that no one goes to heaven once they die, but they wait. they dont realize they are waiting because the time it takes will only feel like a second. they wait untill the scond comming. where all the souls will then be raised or something like that

*lacks in religious studies*

Well that one second is going to suck. :p

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

Right. Only an idiot would have his faith shaken by such a moronic story. More then likely, your friend went unconcious from drinking or doing drugs. Or taking 1 too many sleeping pills for that matter. This is yet another attempt by the foul unbelievers to spread there heretical thoughts to the ignorant masses.

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

well, I had a super awesome experience with God this morning, so now we are even.

Right. Only an idiot would have his faith shaken by such a moronic story. More then likely, your friend went unconcious from drinking or doing drugs. Or taking 1 too many sleeping pills for that matter. This is yet another attempt by the foul unbelievers to spread there heretical thoughts to the ignorant masses.

Lol that was a good one congrats!

hey guys, i no this is kind of irrelevant but whats with the whole "in soviet russia tea drinks you!" or "in soviet russia thread spam you!" just to give a couple of examples
can anyone explain? ty
and personally im a athist so when you die your body shuts down, but then a nice bf2 medic might come along in 15 seconds and revive you
:mp5: :sniper:

"clear!" "alright buddy your good to go get back to the fight!"


Hehe:D :) :p my point exactly!
"Clear!" Im sure that's how it is! :D

I'm an atheist, but this line of reasoning is pretty poor. The only way to disprove God or the afterlife is through logical arguments about Occam's Razor, testable hypotheses, internal contradictions etc. etc.

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

Is the bit that is supposed to debunk all theories oif God the part where it says you have a friend?

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

"More proof" of "no God" . . . oh my! I guess this goes to show that saying right that "one who claims to be a skeptic of one set of beliefs is actually a true believer in another set of beliefs." Nothing wrong with that, but I would definitely want to be absolutely sure on this one.

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.


Oh wait I totally get it now. Your friend related a story to you.n Your friend said it you believe it and that settles it.

Your friend saw (or didn't see) one thing. Other people have reported different experiences. I don't consider either as conclusive proof.

well, I had a super awesome experience with God this morning, so now we are even.

Did you ask him why he won't return my calls? :(

Lag thats how

Even jesus had it

Took 3 days to respawn

http://geek.upwardthrust.us/pictures/lag.jpg

You are my sunshine. :)

How do you know that he did in fact die. Was there somebody to check his pulse? How do we know he just didn't get knocked on the head and knocked out...that causes black outs too. Too many questions...Not enough answers.

First, your friend may not be telling the truth.

Second, how do we know that you enter either heaven or hell immediately after death. Those to be brought back might remain in a sleep-like state. Think of Lazurus and all the other people brought back to life in the Bible. Surely, Jesus wouldn't pull them out of heaven. And how could He pull them out of hell, once they have been sentenced to their eternal punishment by Himself? So God might delay the "transport" of those who He knows are going to be brought back to life.

You are my sunshine. :)

My only sunshine
You make me Happy when sky are gray
You don't know dear, how much I miss ya
please don't take my sunshine away!

Are we having a conversation about whether one does or does not have an imaginary friend?

I guess if you say you have an imaginary friend then you have one. You probably see him/her/it quite a lot and share many personal, intimate and revelatory experiences with them. Depending on your relationship with them you may ask for their forgiveness for a range of transgressions or maybe not. If they have great powers (many imaginary friends do, apparently) it may comfort you to know they are around, take a special interest in your well being and generally ensure that you are taken care of. This is all well and good.

If you don;t have an imaginary friend you probably think that those who do have one are deluded and basing a large proportion of their decisions on the dubious assumptions about reality. This may or may not be the case, it's hard to prove when it can be argued that life is fairly subjective as it is based on the processing of personal perception.

Me for one feel that it is OK to have an imaginary friend (sadly I do not) as long as you do not use him/her/it as an excuse for the persecution of those with either different imaginary friends or no imaginary friends at all. What really gets up my nose is the idea that an imaginary friend is the basis for justifying acts of violence, discrimination, hatred, censorship or intolerance.

How does a friend's death followed by his ressurection prove that there is no God?

You are my sunshine. :)
Wow I got a joke complement from the master! yay for paying attention to ytmnd for the last month or two lol

YES Occam's Razor actually proves God exists, the simplest solution is always the best, so therefore, it is much simpler that God created all then take the about 1 in 1 quadrillion chance that the Big Band occured, our planet was formed in the perfect location for life, and we gained our higher understanding from a complex and NOT scientific evolutionary THEORY.

One time I fell asleep, but I didn't have any dreams, so obviously since I am one person that didn't have dreams, that MUST mean that no dreams exist anywhere. How do you explain that you "dreamers"?


:rolleyes:

YES Occam's Razor actually proves God exists, the simplest solution is always the best, so therefore, it is much simpler that God created all then take the about 1 in 1 quadrillion chance that the Big Band occured, our planet was formed in the perfect location for life, and we gained our higher understanding from a complex and NOT scientific evolutionary THEORY.

Lol it is also simpler by your explination that god started my car this morning rather then a 100 years of inventions and combination of processes starters switches combustion and all the other things that go into it.

Of course anyone can mis-apply an Idea

As the new Pope I officially excommunicate this thread.
Yay! I mean arrrrr!

Did you ask him why he won't return my calls? :(

he said you spend too much time talking and not enough time listening. ;)

Perhaps He did? Do you really know?

YES Occam's Razor actually proves God exists, the simplest solution is always the best, so therefore, it is much simpler that God created all then take the about 1 in 1 quadrillion chance that the Big Band occured, our planet was formed in the perfect location for life, and we gained our higher understanding from a complex and NOT scientific evolutionary THEORY.

psh that prooves nothing, I challenge you to give evidence of God, not (human) logical proof :p

I wonder sometimes, why would evolution makes us feel bad about death, or to fear it, (well obviously for survival) but couldnt it have given us a more nuanced survival mechanism, like being very sensitive to being attacked by predators but not fearing non existence itself? It just seems a bit cruel, to have this self awareness of which we are aware will be one day die, I guess its the baggage which comes with sentience. Still why couldnt it have been weeded out millenia ago? Sentience without emotional fear of death? whinge.

Perhaps He did? Do you really know?

Does that mean we should assume such and stop our technology because it is useless anyways as god does everything

Perhaps He did? Do you really know?

By the way you just gave the best possible example of why god can never be concidered in a scientific theory

If you cant test or falsafy something it is useless information

It just seems a bit cruel, to have this self awareness of which we are aware will be one day die, I guess its the baggage which comes with sentience. Still why couldnt it have been weeded out millenia ago? Sentience without emotional fear of death? whinge.

Knowing I'll die isn't all bad, it means I appreciate everything in life so much more because I know it won't be there forever. I might even be happier with the world, knowing that one day I'll die. :)

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

i hate to be the one to tell you this, and i dont think you should pass it on to your friend but

he didnt see god because he wasnt going to heaven.

By the way you just gave the best possible example of why god can never be concidered in a scientific theory

If you cant test or falsafy something it is useless information

This is also why it can never be proven that there is no god using logic based scientific method. You cannot prove a negative.

Perhaps not but consider for a moment the 'Celestial Teapot' (apologies to Dawkins here)

I conjecture that somewhere in the universe is a tiny, invisible but all powerful celestial teapot.

You can not disprove that the teapot exists but neither can I prove that it does exist. It is an untested theory or conjecture.

Therefore you can say that the existence of god is an untested theory or conjecture but not that he does or does not exist. (Well you can say it but it would not hold true in any logical sense)

Paxomenia;11703440']

Therefore you can say that the existence of god is an untested theory or conjecture but not that he does or does not exist. (Well you can say it but it would not hold true in any logical sense)

More unproven theory than untested but otherwise I can live with your view

your freind probably recieved a stern talking to.:confused:

So...what, a blackout?

a) he didn't actually die. He might have had a so-called "near death experience", but he didn't die. If he had, your conversation would have been much more creepy and would have proved the existance of an afterlife.
b) lack of afterlife is not the lack of a god
c) quack.

c) quack.

Ey, you stole my line.

The existence of God is unprovable. It is absolutely impossible to prove whether an all powerful being does or does not exist.

If someone can think of a scientific way to disprove God I'm all ears. Otherwise, it is as we've known for hundreeds of years: God is not falsifiable so God can not be scientifically proven or disproven in any way.

Paxomenia;11703089']Are we having a conversation about whether one does or does not have an imaginary friend?

I guess if you say you have an imaginary friend then you have one. You probably see him/her/it quite a lot and share many personal, intimate and revelatory experiences with them. Depending on your relationship with them you may ask for their forgiveness for a range of transgressions or maybe not. If they have great powers (many imaginary friends do, apparently) it may comfort you to know they are around, take a special interest in your well being and generally ensure that you are taken care of. This is all well and good.

If you don;t have an imaginary friend you probably think that those who do have one are deluded and basing a large proportion of their decisions on the dubious assumptions about reality. This may or may not be the case, it's hard to prove when it can be argued that life is fairly subjective as it is based on the processing of personal perception.

Me for one feel that it is OK to have an imaginary friend (sadly I do not) as long as you do not use him/her/it as an excuse for the persecution of those with either different imaginary friends or no imaginary friends at all. What really gets up my nose is the idea that an imaginary friend is the basis for justifying acts of violence, discrimination, hatred, censorship or intolerance.

Though the tone of your post is condescending, I have to agree with everything you state. I have an imaginary friend. To me, of course, god is not imaginary. But for the purposes of having a logical or scientific discussion, She is. None of my information on Her is something I can reproduce in a lab.

hey guys, i no this is kind of irrelevant but whats with the whole "in soviet russia tea drinks you!" or "in soviet russia thread spam you!" just to give a couple of examples
can anyone explain? ty

Search "Yakov Smirnoff"

Well, if you take it that way I apologise for the tone. I understand that using the term 'imaginary friend' instead of god/allah/yaweh/anyothercountlessgodsyoucouldmention may seem condescending and patronising.

As the new Pope I officially excommunicate this thread.

*Breaks off from DCD church and forms Protestant thread*

Ey, you stole my line.

sorry. I'll select a different kind of poultry to quote next time.

what does an emu sound like?

This is also why it can never be proven that there is no god using logic based scientific method. You cannot prove a negative.

Agreed that’s the whole non falsifiable thing.

he didnt die. end of story. If your heart stops, to me your not dead. When you start to rot, then you are dead

he didnt die. end of story. If your heart stops, to me your not dead. When you start to rot, then you are dead

You can start to rot without being dead … I believe that is necrosis

sorry. I'll select a different kind of poultry to quote next time.

what does an emu sound like?

I dunno.
See if any of these have it http://ibc.hbw.com/ibc/phtml/especie.phtml?idEspecie=7

good point. And i think you are right on the name of it as well, im not sure

Then ill change it, untill your head false off your body do to the complete removal of anything holding it together by decay or something else and worms eat your eyes. you are not dead.
haha
if you can come back from that, and say no heaven ill listen. hahah

Are you sure about that? If you are cremated prior to rotting, are you then still alive? :p

Paxomenia;11704112']Are you sure about that? If you are cremated prior to rotting, are you then still alive? :p

Perhaps combustion can be construed as a form of rotting.

hahah

Well if your cremated then your head isnt part of your spine any more is it. Your spine isnt part of it as well but hey
:cool:

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

You're friend has no soul, because he is imaginary.

Paxomenia;11704030']Well, if you take it that way I apologise for the tone. I understand that using the term 'imaginary friend' instead of god/allah/yaweh/anyothercountlessgodsyoucouldmention may seem condescending and patronising.

Sorry. I should have been more clear. I liked the condescending tone. Kept me from getting too serious about it. The the term 'imaginary friend' is also a lot shorter than god/allah/yaweh/anyothercountlessgodsyoucouldmention...

I am deeply honoured sir!

(Completely off topic) What games are you superior at?

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

Do you dream *every time* you sleep? How long was he dead -- a few seconds?

One anecdote does not a proof make.

I have proof of gods existance!!!

http://geek.upwardthrust.us/pictures/fsm.jpg

No proof of afterlife = no proof of god?

Funny how people always seem to confuse god with all the extras that religion makes up.

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.
Do you really want me to throw a hundred million different explanations at you? I'll spare you the mysticism and stuff, but for one thing you could argue quite effectively that the soul had not departed yet, as your friend was clearly capable of being revived.

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

I dunno, hell?

No proof of afterlife = no proof of god?

Funny how people always seem to confuse god with all the extras that religion makes up.Funny how people overlook that "God" is one of those 'extras'...

Right, because it's impossible for there to be a God thats not connected to a religion.

As the new Pope I officially excommunicate this thread.

They went and made you pope? I'm sorry. Really glad I'm a Satanist now.:D

Why is it so important to you that there is no God?


This question is a thread winner.

This question is a thread winner.

Indeed.

This question is a thread winner.

I disagree. The only thing nearing "win" here is:

I have proof of gods existance!!!

http://geek.upwardthrust.us/pictures/fsm.jpg

There are as many gods as there are human minds to concieve of them. Perhaps the OPs friend has no concept of god or an afterlife, therefore did not see him/her or and afterlife.

:cool: Let's dish this up once more:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.
(Bertrand Russell)

:cool: Let's dish this up once more:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.
(Bertrand Russell)

Dude, we've known about the teapot for centuries.

The teapot is a basic primitive. I'm sure we've got more than a handful of them floating in space, left around by noob helloworlders.

Well, I know I couldn't find my teapot after my last trip to the moon, but then again I'm not entirly sure if I brought it in the first place or not. Man I love how silly this thread has become.

"clear!" "alright buddy your good to go get back to the fight!"

Ahh, the sweet sound of not dying. :D

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

If you're going to be scientific about it, we need a repeatable, controlled experiment.

Hey, I've got an idea. You can be the test subject... where's my sledgehammer?

Why is it so important to you that there is no God?

You know that really annoying feeling when someone just flippantly tosses out some outrageous political view and you want to argue with them, but you don't know them that well, you've had a long day and you're not really in the mood for intellectualism and now the conversation's moved on anyway? Well, atheists feel a little like that whenever anyone mentions something to with their religion or God. That's why we sometimes go a little crazy in places like internet forums. ;

Is it possible to disprove God? Well, not directly, but logic implies that we should assume his non-existence. For instance, I could propose that we share the world with a civilisation of invisible giant spiders. You couldn't prove me wrong, and I could even probably make my theory explain some scientific observation. However, it would still raise a lot more questions than it answers, and besides, why spiders and why not giraffes? They aren't useful in explaining the world and there is nothing to distinguish them from an infinite number of other equally valid theories. The only sensible thing to do is assume their non-existence.

The only sensible thing to do is assume their non-existence.


The only sensible thing is to stop talking about thing that logic and experiment cannot demonstrate as true or false or probable.
Kant demonstrated that logic is useless when disputing the existence - or not existence - of ultrawordly objects like gods.
He did it more than 200 years ago.
So the time to stop talking is NOW.

You know that really annoying feeling when someone just flippantly tosses out some outrageous political view and you want to argue with them, but you don't know them that well, you've had a long day and you're not really in the mood for intellectualism and now the conversation's moved on anyway? Well, atheists feel a little like that whenever anyone mentions something to with their religion or God. That's why we sometimes go a little crazy in places like internet forums. ;

Is it possible to disprove God? Well, not directly, but logic implies that we should assume his non-existence. For instance, I could propose that we share the world with a civilisation of invisible giant spiders. You couldn't prove me wrong, and I could even probably make my theory explain some scientific observation. However, it would still raise a lot more questions than it answers, and besides, why spiders and why not giraffes? They aren't useful in explaining the world and there is nothing to distinguish them from an infinite number of other equally valid theories. The only sensible thing to do is assume their non-existence.

I don't think it follows that logic assumes the non-existence of God. If it's true that God created the world and we've logically ruled out that possibility then we have ruled that out as a true possibility. And when you consider the alternative, that everything came into being, life came from non-life, without the aid of an eternal living God - one could argue that it takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be one who believes in a God.

... And when you consider the alternative, that everything came into being, life came from non-life, without the aid of an eternal living God - one could argue that it takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be one who believes in a God.

Not really. You need to reconcile yourself to the fact that we don't exactly know how life arose yet. That doesn't bother me, in fact, it inspires me to learn more.

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

Actually I get more skeptical when someone claims that they have had a "experience" after being technically or legally dead for a brief few moments than I do when someone says they didn't experience anything. Neither really has any impact on my faith. Sorry about that.

I mean if you really were dead, how is your experience being written into your dead brain cells. And once you come back from the dead, how can you remember that save through those brain cells which were supposed to be dead? The only conclusion one can make is ... he's not dead yet.

So let's sing the Spamalot not dead yet song and be done with it. :p

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

Maybe this point has been made already but...

Wow... I mean, wow. On the weight of this single anecdotal story my entire faith has been shattered. Thank you, oh thank you Soviestan for enlightening us all with this irrefutable and monolithic evidence that tears asunder all of our silly mythological religions.

/sarcasm

Or not

Maybe, just maybe, religious faith isn't hinged upon what someone sees while unconscious. (If he was dead you wouldn't be talking to him now, would you?)

I disagree. The only thing nearing "win" here is:

Yay I am a winner! fsm ftw!

I don't think it follows that logic assumes the non-existence of God. If it's true that God created the world and we've logically ruled out that possibility then we have ruled that out as a true possibility. And when you consider the alternative, that everything came into being, life came from non-life, without the aid of an eternal living God - one could argue that it takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be one who believes in a God.

Agree 100% with this.

I find the idea that modern human civilization arose from a few bits of proteins drifting around in primordial soup a hell of a lot harder to swallow than the much simpler explanation, that we were placed here by a higher intelligence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistol Whip
I don't think it follows that logic assumes the non-existence of God. If it's true that God created the world and we've logically ruled out that possibility then we have ruled that out as a true possibility. And when you consider the alternative, that everything came into being, life came from non-life, without the aid of an eternal living God - one could argue that it takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be one who believes in a God.


Agree 100% with this.

I find the idea that modern human civilization arose from a few bits of proteins drifting around in primordial soup a hell of a lot harder to swallow than the much simpler explanation, that we were placed here by a higher intelligence.

Take a few science classes, read a few books. Not only is it not hard to swallow, all the evidence in existance points towards it and nothing contradicts it.

OK, make that nothing outside of some primitive myths written by those who didn't have our understanding of the world.

Great, this is now arrogance that even assumes the writers of all those science textbooks do not believe in God when the opposite is probably true. I understand you have a strong belief in this matter, but don't try to win points talking smack like that. Share what you've learned from reading those textbooks you've been enlightened with and how it applies to the discussion.

No proof of afterlife = no proof of god?

Funny how people always seem to confuse god with all the extras that religion makes up.

Well if there is no afterlife why give a shit about god seeing as he can't do anything to you in the afterlife.

Actually I get more skeptical when someone claims that they have had a "experience" after being technically or legally dead for a brief few moments than I do when someone says they didn't experience anything. Neither really has any impact on my faith. Sorry about that.

I mean if you really were dead, how is your experience being written into your dead brain cells. And once you come back from the dead, how can you remember that save through those brain cells which were supposed to be dead? The only conclusion one can make is ... he's not dead yet.

So let's sing the Spamalot not dead yet song and be done with it. :p

I agree wholeheartedly.

Well if there is no afterlife why give a shit about god seeing as he can't do anything to you in the afterlife.

We're talking about the existence of a God, not the afterlife here. Hell, you created this topic - you should know that by now.

I think some people are saying that they would only worship a god if they got something in return or would avoid some punishment.

Essentially if he can't or isn't going to do something to you to make you then you shouldn't.

Again, I would say that if God is infinitely good as I believe him to be he should be worshipped whether it will get you into some sweet afterlife or not.


EDIT: I honestly believe that Hell is such a terrible place because it is cut off from God, not necessarily because there is some physical suffering or something like that.

Actually I get more skeptical when someone claims that they have had a "experience" after being technically or legally dead for a brief few moments than I do when someone says they didn't experience anything. Neither really has any impact on my faith. Sorry about that.

I mean if you really were dead, how is your experience being written into your dead brain cells. And once you come back from the dead, how can you remember that save through those brain cells which were supposed to be dead? The only conclusion one can make is ... he's not dead yet.

So let's sing the Spamalot not dead yet song and be done with it. :p

There is a reason that a lot of people believe in a soul.

I don't think it follows that logic assumes the non-existence of God. If it's true that God created the world and we've logically ruled out that possibility then we have ruled that out as a true possibility. And when you consider the alternative, that everything came into being, life came from non-life, without the aid of an eternal living God - one could argue that it takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be one who believes in a God.

We don't really have any idea how the universe came into being, but there are plenty of explanations being bandied about, from 'time and causality is fundamentally an illusion' to 'big bangs occur when the universe spontaneously tunnels from one quantum state to another'. The only reason the idea of a God seems any more simple or natural is first because it's so vague, and second because of thousands of years of cultural, and perhaps evolutionary conditioning. Similarly, we don't know how life emerged. However, as a strict materialist (an opinion, as far as I know, backed up by all of neurology and biology), I don't really see any division between life and non-life. So the issue here is really whether order can emerge from disorder, and there are plenty of examples, like gas forming stars and liquid water freezing into crystalline ice, of this happening.

The other point is even you're right, what you are actually arguing for is the kind of god in Terry Pratchett's books, where you 'know they exist, but don't believe in them any more than you would believe in the postman'. I don't know anyone at all who agrees with this idea of God.

Well if there is no afterlife why give a shit about god seeing as he can't do anything to you in the afterlife.

Your friend died. He is alive again. That is afterlife. If your friend was not completely and unquestionable dead at some point then your amazing proof of God's complete failure to exist is no proof at all. In fact your friend was so very excruciatingly dead that if God existed then God himself would have been helpless to resist visiting your friend. Thats what Gods do. Well the ones that exist do. Anyway your friend and you have not only debunked God, you have also proven that God is not even needed to have an afterlife. Your friend was God disintegrating dead but he managed to reanimate himself from his death with no help from God or the supernatural or anything other than adhering to the same laws of nature which govern all time and matter. if he hadnt just killed off God forever it would be a miracle! Instead of "a miracle" we should call his resurrection from the dead and into his afterlife "something which needs more funding and further study"

The only reason the idea of a God seems any more simple

Occam's Razor. Go for the simple answer.

How does a friend's death followed by his ressurection prove that there is no God?
I like that answer :D Good job!

I was having a conversation with one of my friends last night about life, death, etc. and he told that he died and was revived. He explained how when he died he just blacked out and was gone. No light, no heaven, just nothing. Kinda confirmed what I already expected. So god believers, faith people, whatever tell me how this can be if theres a god.

You and he assume he was headed above? Why would you see the light of God if you were headed the other way? ;)

You and he assume he was headed above? Why would you see the light of God if you were headed the other way? ;)
And it gets even better! :D Sehr gut!