NationStates Jolt Archive


The Cataclysmic Conundrum: T-Rex Vs. 100,000 Turkeys

Mandellavia
19-09-2006, 05:15
Dave Snyder (NYU) once posed a theoretical question that lingers in my mind. The question has inspired both dizzying debates and switchblade stabbings to the thoraxes of many an eager deliberator.

A question of this magnitude deserves a name. Therefore, I named it the “Cataclysmic Conundrum.” The Cataclysmic Conundrum lacks purpose, conceivability, and reasonableness. However, for what it lacks in these areas, the Cataclysmic Conundrum allows people to endlessly discuss the merits of both sides of the scenario.

The Cataclysmic Conundrum goes as follows:

If placed in an arena, what would win: a T-Rex or 100,000 Turkeys?

Without purpose? Inconceivable? Unreasonable? Of course.

Nevertheless, the question merits an answer—or at least an argument or two.

Dave quickly arose as the greatest proponent of the T-Rex.

I favor the gobblers.

Dave and I have confronted friends and family members with this question. Some laugh, some discuss, some scoff, and some question our sanity.

Dave desperately felt the need though to take the Cataclysmic Conundrum to an upper echelon of debate.

He started asking obscure celebrities at book signings.

The Mac Guy from the commercials qualifies as the first celebrity to answer the Cataclysmic Conundrum.

Then Ken Jennings (the Jeopardy Champion) answered.

I will allow Dave Snyder to discuss their answers in detail if he so wishes.

In an effort to ask the Cataclysmic Conundrum to as many celebrities as possible, I ventured to BU Central to ask Johnny Knoxville (Jackass) the apocalyptic question.

The conversation transpired thusly:

Me: Johnny, I have a hypothetical question for you.
Johnny (visibly hung-over): Hypothetical? Ok, what is it?
Me: Who would win in a fight: a T-Rex or 100,000 turkeys?
Johnny (nonchalantly): Hmmm, T-Rex or 100,000 turkeys…I’m going to go with the turkeys. Strength in numbers.
Me: Thanks Johnny.

Slate one celebrity to the side of the turkeys.

I hope the Cataclysmic Conundrum grows to a cult status once we get enough celebrities to answer it. Perhaps that pushes realistic goals, but the journey should provide moments of confused hilarity.

I will keep this updated whenever a new celebrity answers the question.
Chellis
19-09-2006, 05:19
I think I love you
Andaluciae
19-09-2006, 05:21
Depends on how big the arena is. You might just be able to suffocate the Rex if the arena is small enough. Or, on the other hand, if it's big enough, the rex will eat turkey's, but the buggers will reproduce, and eventually the Rex will die of old age and the tukeys will still be breeding.

Either way, the Rex loses, and...well, you are right.
Antikythera
19-09-2006, 05:22
trurkeys, those things are evil, i'v got the scars to prove it
Ginnoria
19-09-2006, 05:29
Depends, are they wild turkeys? Because if they have the capacity for flight they could conceivably overwhelm the T-Rex by pecking his entire body to death. However, if they are not flight-capable turkeys, the most they will be able to do is peck the T-Rex's feet, which will be futile, as the T-Rex will simply stomp them all, given enough time.
Chellis
19-09-2006, 05:32
You have to realize that nothing is said about food. So, while the T-rex can eat turkeys and stay not starving, not the same thing for the turkeys. Seeing how incredibly hard it woud be to kill 100k turkeys, fast fuckers, the T-rex probably couldnt kill even half of them in, say, three days. Once the turkeys got hungry enough, they would swarm the T-rex, and eat him alive, feet /tail first.
Mandellavia
19-09-2006, 05:37
In our many debates on the subject, Dave and I decided a few special rules of engagement:

1. We have stipulated that the winner of the fight is the last species alive.

2. We operate under the assumption that T-Rex will see the turkeys as a food source. Even if scientific evidence suggests that T-Rex is a scavenger it will go after the turkeys to survive.

3. As to the intellect of the turkeys, we are talking modern domestic turkeys. I feel that the turkeys would most likely try to run away, which is why the combatants are locked in a sealed arena. The size of the arena is probably Super Dome size. But with fewer places for the turkeys to survive.

However, (and this is part of my argument for long run turkey victory, not to be confused with the question itself) I believe if 100,000 turkeys are in a room, they could develop some sort of communication to agree to poke out of the eyes of the T-Rex and or perform a mass kamikaze down the T-Rex's throat to choke it.

Turkeys are feisty creatures you know.
CthulhuFhtagn
19-09-2006, 05:39
Tyrannosaurus rex had a hide tougher than an elephant's. The turkeys wouldn't be able to harm it.
Mandellavia
19-09-2006, 05:39
4. The ground is littered with turkey food if you want that level of detail.
5. There is no time limit.
6. The turkeys are unisex. No breeding occurs. 100,000 is the magic number, no more, no less.
Dobbsworld
19-09-2006, 05:41
I'm going with one Helluva bloated T-Rex, in light of the embellished rules.
Mandellavia
19-09-2006, 05:48
As the Turkeys' foremost advocate, I must remind everyone that 100,000 is a huge number--a number one wouldn't be able to count to too easily.

A T-Rex is a rather cumbersome animal.

Sure, it's hide is tough, but what about it's eyeballs? If the turkeys manage to get at that T-Rex while it's asleep, it could wake up blind. How's it going to survive after that?

And a friend of mine also brought up the idea that turkeys carry tryptophan, a drug that causes sleepiness (The stuff that makes you tired after a Thanksgiving meal.)

That T-Rex is going down for the count, it would take a while, but I think the turkeys could do it.
Dobbsworld
19-09-2006, 05:54
No way the birds can sneak up on it while its' asleep. I own birds; the slightest shifting of air in a darkened room is enough to get their full attention. A T-Rex is a related animal, I don't see the characteristic of sudden wakefulness being a recent innovation amongst avians. And anyway, turkeys have poor night vision.

Nay to nocturnal eyeball attacks, say I.
Mandellavia
19-09-2006, 05:55
No fun, but fair enough.

Plan B then. Massive kamikaze down the Dino's throat to induce suffocation.
Mandellavia
19-09-2006, 05:58
I think I love you

And "I love you, ['cause] you love me. I love you, so let's make a family tree."

--"I Love You," Barenaked Ladies. Gordon. 1991.
CthulhuFhtagn
19-09-2006, 06:01
No way the birds can sneak up on it while its' asleep. I own birds; the slightest shifting of air in a darkened room is enough to get their full attention. A T-Rex is a related animal, I don't see the characteristic of sudden wakefulness being a recent innovation amongst avians. And anyway, turkeys have poor night vision.

Nay to nocturnal eyeball attacks, say I.

Also, T. rex would have slept standing up. Also, tryptophan does not cause drowsiness. It's an urban legend.
Not bad
19-09-2006, 06:20
3. As to the intellect of the turkeys, we are talking modern domestic turkeys.

T Rex would win in a 100000 to nowt blowout without him even overheating. Too bad they arent wild turkeys, because THAT would be a battle for the ages.
Mandellavia
19-09-2006, 17:14
From Wikipedia :

Tryptophan and turkey

According to popular belief, tryptophan in turkey meat causes drowsiness [6]. Turkey does contain tryptophan, which does have a documented sleep-inducing effect as it is readily converted into Serotonin by the body. However, tryptophan is effective only when taken on its own as a free amino acid. Tryptophan in turkey is found as part of a protein, and, in small enough amounts, this mechanism seems unlikely [7].

A more-likely hypothesis is that the ingestion of large quantities of food, such as at a Thanksgiving feast, means that large quantities of both carbohydrates and branched-chain amino acids are consumed. Like carbohydrates, branched-chain amino acids require insulin to be transduced through the myocyte membranes, which, after a large meal, creates a competition among the amino acids and glucose for insulin, while simultaneously creating tryptophan's reduced competition with other amino acids for the Large Neutral Amino Acid Transporter protein for transduction across the blood-brain barrier. The result is a greater availability of tryptophan, via the Large Neutral Amino Acid Transporter, for conversion into serotonin by the raphe nuclei, which is then available for conversion into melatonin by the pineal gland. Drowsiness is the result.

After about 500 of those turkeys, that T-Rex is going to get tired.

And I don't think wild turkeys would have any advantage over domestic turkeys in this fight. They are birds with bird brains and very similar features.
Dontgonearthere
19-09-2006, 17:21
My choose your own story thread is locked without complaint or explanation, but nobody cares about this it seems.

Lets see...
*blows the dust off the long disused emoticon panel*
Ah, here we go.
:mad:
[NS]Trilby63
19-09-2006, 17:23
My choose your own story thread is locked without complaint or explanation, but nobody cares about this it seems.

Lets see...
*blows the dust off the long disused emoticon panel*
Ah, here we go.
:mad:

This is a debate not a story.

Anyway.. are the turkeys male or female?
Congo--Kinshasa
19-09-2006, 17:23
Are the turkeys in question normal turkeys, or evil mutant ones like the ones on the Thanksgiving episode of South Park? Either way, Rexy would pwn them.
Cullons
19-09-2006, 17:42
where is this battle taking place?
If its being held in a cold location. Turkeys would win. Since it has not been proven whether T-rex is warm or cold blooded (if a scavenger why would it need to be warm blooded?) it would die during the night.

Or it would gorge on a couple of hundred turkeys, then dose off due to the Tryptophan. Then it would be the turkeys time to ATTACK!!!!
Cullons
19-09-2006, 17:52
actually thinking about it.
If you put a T-rex and 100.000 turkeys in a arena, and the last species alive wins, then it would have to be the turkeys. T-rex is extinct. So turkey wins by default
Dododecapod
19-09-2006, 18:25
Double loss. T.Rex would rip up about half the Turkeys, then it and the remainder would die from feather suffocation.
Todays Lucky Number
19-09-2006, 18:27
If T Rex was against red meat I would say he would die from cholestrol but in this case it will die from fatness.
Khadgar
19-09-2006, 18:40
Depends on the variety of turkey, farmed turkeys are awful dumb animals, they'd succumb to dehydration fairly quickly also.
Mandellavia
19-09-2006, 18:46
I mentioned above that the turkeys are modern domesticated turkeys. The turkeys and the T-Rex will have enough water to keep from dehydrating. The location is an arena roughly the size of the Super Dome--sealed, ventilated, and average room temperature (if you're really nit picky, the T-Rex can have a heat lamp.)
Mandellavia
19-09-2006, 18:50
We decided that the turkeys are all of one gender. We do not feel the need to establish the actual sex of the turkeys or the T-Rex for that matter. I suppose if the Cataclysmic Conundrum were ever put into experimentation, we would flip a coin for determining the sexes.

Also, for the purposes of the Cataclysmic Conundrum, the T-Rex has been revived "Jurassic Park" style.
Khadgar
19-09-2006, 18:51
I mentioned above that the turkeys are modern domesticated turkeys. The turkeys and the T-Rex will have enough water to keep from dehydrating. The location is an arena roughly the size of the Super Dome--sealed, ventilated, and average room temperature (if you're really nit picky, the T-Rex can have a heat lamp.)

Being the case, T-Rex, turkeys are neither aggressive nor intelligent. They're stupid and rather passive critters. They don't do much but eat drink and crap.
Not bad
19-09-2006, 21:33
And I don't think wild turkeys would have any advantage over domestic turkeys in this fight. They are birds with bird brains and very similar features.

I absolutely disagree! Wild turkeys are noble and stealthy birds which are difficult for hunters to find and to get near. The are beautiful and grand and masters of their environment. Domestic turkeys on the other hand must be herded under a roof whenever it rains before they look up towards the rain's source, become frozen with bewilderment and drown on raindrops.
Mandellavia
19-09-2006, 21:44
I absolutely disagree! Wild turkeys are noble and stealthy birds which are difficult for hunters to find and to get near. The are beautiful and grand and masters of their environment. Domestic turkeys on the other hand must be herded under a roof whenever it rains before they look up towards the rain's source, become frozen with bewilderment and drown on raindrops.

But domestic turkeys have been selectively bread over the years. By the time we actually experiment this thing, we could breed turkeys with the most feisty tendencies. As it stands now, I might agree with you, but domestic turkeys are funnier--after all, this is a joke...of epic proportions.
[NS]Trilby63
19-09-2006, 21:49
I absolutely disagree! Wild turkeys are noble and stealthy birds which are difficult for hunters to find and to get near. The are beautiful and grand and masters of their environment. Domestic turkeys on the other hand must be herded under a roof whenever it rains before they look up towards the rain's source, become frozen with bewilderment and drown on raindrops.

They don't. It's a myth.
Not bad
19-09-2006, 21:49
But domestic turkeys have been selectively bread over the years. By the time we actually experiment this thing, we could breed turkeys with the most feisty tendencies. As it stands now, I might agree with you, but domestic turkeys are funnier--after all, this is a joke...of epic proportions.

Can we also alter them to have six inch long razor sharp talons and beaks and some kind of venom or toxin? I like their chances better that way.
Not bad
19-09-2006, 21:52
Trilby63;11704076']They don't. It's a myth.

OOO hark at mister Mythbuster in the Tyranasaurus Rex fighting one hundred thousand turkeys to the death thread.:p
Baratstan
19-09-2006, 21:53
T-rex. The Turkeys wouldn't necessarily swarm over the T-rex like they know they're in a fight, but the T-rex would start ripping and stomping all of them. Considering the density of 100,000 turkeys in a super-dome sized arena, the T-rex is going to inflict some heavy casualties fairly quickly.
Baratstan
19-09-2006, 21:55
Can we also alter them to have six inch long razor sharp talons and beaks and some kind of venom or toxin?
Only if the T-rex can get pumped up on drugs and lucozade.
[NS]Trilby63
19-09-2006, 21:55
OOO hark at mister Mythbuster in the Tyranasaurus Rex fighting one hundred thousand turkeys to the death thread.:p

You know, I don't think you're taking this seriously.
Not bad
19-09-2006, 21:56
Trilby63;11704116']You know, I don't think you're taking this seriously.

No but hum the first few bars and I can fake it.
[NS]Trilby63
19-09-2006, 21:58
No but hum the first few bars and I can fake it.

What an odd person you are.
Not bad
19-09-2006, 21:58
Only if the T-rex can get pumped up on drugs and lucozade.

I saw T Rex in concert once and I think that this would be redundant
Not bad
19-09-2006, 22:00
Trilby63;11704129']What an odd person you are.

If I ever meet a normal person I will hit him just as hard as I can in the nose for setting the bar so high. I dont suppose you are normal are you?
[NS]Trilby63
19-09-2006, 22:03
If I ever meet a normal person I will hit him just as hard as I can in the nose for setting the bar so high. I dont suppose you are normal are you?

I'm within one standard deviation of normality of normal.
Mandellavia
19-09-2006, 22:04
Ok, the turkeys will have taurine enhanced beverages to help them out.

Ok, so we can't have that stipulation. I don't think I want to make any more conditions or rules for this most crucial of contests.

"You shall all taste oblivion! Which tastes like Red Bull....which is disgusting..."

--O-Malley, Red. Vs. Blue
Isidoor
19-09-2006, 22:17
During my research on the internet if found some very interesting evidence strongly in favor of the turkey.
i have included a linkt to the essay (http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=T-Rex&word2=turkey)
Not bad
19-09-2006, 22:17
Trilby63;11704170']I'm within one standard deviation of normality of normal.You know I believe the deviation part of that without question. The rest would take constant effort and grooming and outside help in quantifying data I reckon. Too much effort to not excel or lag in any area.
Montacanos
19-09-2006, 22:17
Im putting my vote in for the T-rex, for multiple reasons.

1. The T-rex skin is super-tough, and that includes the eyelids. Dont T-rex -and most animals that large- sleep standing up anyway? If the T-rex recieves sustinance from the turkeys, he's got it made. He wont gorge himself to death. Just because the turkeys are there doesnt mean he'll try to eat them all at once.

2. Turkeys do not organize themselves in groups massive enough to take on a T-rex. If the turkeys became mad with hunger they would attack each other before attacking something as fast and as deadly or even as large as a T-rex.

In my mental arena, by the end of a week, more turkey's have died to infighting than have died to the T-rex. by the end of a month there remain only around 40,000 turkeys and one very healthy T-rex. Years time there are several hundred turkeys left

(on a final note, arent turkeys territorial? If they are all males this could be over in weeks, and the T-rex would get to just be a scavenger)
Mandellavia
19-09-2006, 22:33
Well, Dave and I sat down and decided that the turkeys will be in fact Wild Turkeys. We also decided that the Super Dome was too small. So imagine a sealed (well ventilated) arena that is really big. Dave and I will decide the actual size of the arena at a later date.

Also, we would like to invite everyone to join a facebook group dedicated to this discussion:

http://bu.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2209868300
Dedjedi
20-09-2006, 21:45
This is an issue that none have yet adressed. And I believe it to be the silver bullet for the T-Rex's side.:sniper:

I have seen, at the Minnesota State Fair, the following scenario.

1 small child shrieking nearby a turkey pen.

Turkey dies straight away.:eek:

"Died of panic" says the handler.

T-Rex roars louder than shrieking child.

100,000 turkeys die of panic.:mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:

T-Rex has a big lunch.:D

The defense rests.:cool:
Mandellavia
20-09-2006, 22:38
But would a wild turkey die of sheer fright--let alone, 100,000 of them? And do we know that T-Rex's roared? I don't know of too many reptiles that do roar. Most hiss.
CthulhuFhtagn
20-09-2006, 22:47
where is this battle taking place?
If its being held in a cold location. Turkeys would win. Since it has not been proven whether T-rex is warm or cold blooded (if a scavenger why would it need to be warm blooded?) it would die during the night.

Or it would gorge on a couple of hundred turkeys, then dose off due to the Tryptophan. Then it would be the turkeys time to ATTACK!!!!

No, Tyrannosaurus rex, like all dinosaurs, has been conclusively shown to be endothermic. Also, no scientist aside from Horner, who has no credibility on the issue, thinks that T. rex was a scavenger.
CthulhuFhtagn
20-09-2006, 22:48
But would a wild turkey die of sheer fright--let alone, 100,000 of them? And do we know that T-Rex's roared? I don't know of too many reptiles that do roar. Most hiss.

Domestic turkeys, not wild ones. And T. rex would have roared. The closest living non-avian relatives are crocodiles, and they roar.
Breitenburg
20-09-2006, 22:57
Any smart turkey, no matter who many there were, would not attack a tyrannosaurus. And the Rex would get a few, but they are to small for it to really care about. And the Rex is cooler.

No one respects T-Rex anymore, what with all the Jurassic Park 3's and King Kong's and Jack Horner's portraying him as a wuss. Douches.
Mandellavia
20-09-2006, 23:08
Domestic turkeys, not wild ones. And t. rex would have roared. The closest living non-avian relatives are crocodiles, and they roar.

I started this thread and a while back I made some amendments to the initial rules. Dave Snyder and I sat down and decided that the turkeys were wild turkeys, because domestic turkeys are far to nonthreatening.

Every time I've seen a crocodile, it has hissed. I've never heard a crocodile roar. I could be wrong on that issue.

No one respects T-Rex anymore

Maybe that's because it failed to survive over the past 65 million years. Lame-o's.
Breitenburg
20-09-2006, 23:11
I started this thread and a while back I made some amendments to the initial rules. Dave Snyder and I sat down and decided that the turkeys were wild turkeys, because domestic turkeys are far to nonthreatening.

Every time I've seen a crocodile, it has hissed. I've never heard a crocodile roar. I could be wrong on that issue.



Maybe that's because it failed to survive over the past 65 million years. Lame-o's.

It survived longer than we have, and probably ever will.
Mandellavia
20-09-2006, 23:15
Humans will colonize other terrestrial bodies. I think we could surpass Mr. T-Rex. I haven't given up on human ingenuity yet.

But that's a different (and albeit, far too serious) debate altogether
Liberated New Ireland
20-09-2006, 23:18
"You shall all taste oblivion! Which tastes like Red Bull....which is disgusting..."

--O-Malley, Red. Vs. Blue

:D

"Never. Be. Alone."
--O'Malley, to Tucker, RvB.
CthulhuFhtagn
20-09-2006, 23:23
Humans will colonize other terrestrial bodies. I think we could surpass Mr. T-Rex. I haven't given up on human ingenuity yet.

But that's a different (and albeit, far too serious) debate altogether

We won't colonize other bodies. There's none we can colonize. We will eventually die out, as every other species has or will.
Mandellavia
20-09-2006, 23:26
No other species has flown to the moon, has sent a probe to the edges of the solar system, or has done simple algebra.

I don't know if we will leave this noxious rock, but I think there is at least the possibility.
Duntscruwithus
21-09-2006, 01:23
We won't colonize other bodies. There's none we can colonize. We will eventually die out, as every other species has or will.

Checked the entire universe already did ya? Seeing as even the best modern telescopes have problems detecting planets orbiting our closest neighbors, I doubt we are gonna be anywhere close to finding them all for a VERY long time. And at some point, I'll bet the odds of finding many habitable planets in other solars systems will go decidedly up.

Oh, and my money is on the T-Rex. Anyone figure just how many turkeys it'd kill just stomping around?
CthulhuFhtagn
21-09-2006, 01:27
Checked the entire universe already did ya? Seeing as even the best modern telescopes have problems detecting planets orbiting our closest neighbors, I doubt we are gonna be anywhere close to finding them all for a VERY long time. And at some point, I'll bet the odds of finding many habitable planets in other solars systems will go decidedly up.

The closest star with a planet is too far away to be feasibly reached. The closest star with a planet that is even solid is even farther.
Notaxia
21-09-2006, 02:31
Aquiring the knowledge and technology needed to travel to other stars will render us beyond the need for life on a planet.
Dobbsworld
21-09-2006, 02:34
Aquiring the knowledge and technology needed to travel to other stars will render us beyond the need for life on a planet.

Acquiring the knowledge and the wisdom needed to travel to other stars will render us beyond the need of technologies.
Im a ninja
21-09-2006, 02:36
Is the Arena coverd? I read somewhere that turkeys look at the sky till the drown if it rains. Which sounds kinda dumb, but idk.
Duntscruwithus
21-09-2006, 03:40
The closest star with a planet is too far away to be feasibly reached. The closest star with a planet that is even solid is even farther.

Currently true. But peoples ability to create things that were previously thought impossible is simply amazing. It may not happen within our or the next lifetime, but I have no doubts that the technology to take humans out past our own solar system will be discovered and built. We are nothing, if not imaginitive.

And thus far, the only planets researchers say they are capable of detecting are massive, bigger-than-Jupiter gas planets. A small ball of dirt like ours may very well be as common or, more common than those big fart-bags. Just because they haven't found it yet, doesn't mean someone won't.
Cullons
21-09-2006, 13:29
No, Tyrannosaurus rex, like all dinosaurs, has been conclusively shown to be endothermic. Also, no scientist aside from Horner, who has no credibility on the issue, thinks that T. rex was a scavenger.

Really?
These call it into question the warm bloodedness.
Williams, P. (1997). Bob Bakker. Dinosaur Cards.
Evans, J. (1998). Ultimate Visual Dictionary - 1998 Edition.

and this one compared T-rex to hyenas & such. in other words opportunists.
Farlow, J. O. and Holtz, T. R. Jr. 2002. The fossil record of predation in dinosaurs.

and:
"Modern evidence indicates that dinosaurs thrived in cooler temperate climates, and that at least some dinosaur species must have regulated their body temperature by internal biological means (perhaps aided by the animals' bulk). Evidence of endothermism in dinosaurs includes the discovery of polar dinosaurs in Australia and Antarctica (where they would have experienced a cold winter with no sunlight for several months), the discovery of dinosaurs whose feathers may have provided regulatory insulation, and analysis of blood-vessel structures that are typical of endotherms within dinosaur bone. Skeletal structures suggest that theropods and other dinosaurs had active lifestyles better suited to an endothermic cardiovascular system, while sauropods exhibit fewer endothermic characteristics. It is certainly possible that some dinosaurs were endothermic while others were not. Scientific debate over the specifics continues"
Parsons, K.M. (2001). Drawing Out Leviathan. Indiana University Press

So i'm sorry i'm not going to treat it as conclusive that all dinosaurs were endothermic. They probably wer but i'm not going to make assumptions
CthulhuFhtagn
21-09-2006, 13:49
Really?
These call it into question the warm bloodedness.
Williams, P. (1997). Bob Bakker. Dinosaur Cards.
Evans, J. (1998). Ultimate Visual Dictionary - 1998 Edition.
AHAHAHAHAHA. Sorry, but popular literature isn't a valid source. Try Bakker's The Dinosaur Heresies (1986), or Paul's Predatory Dinosaurs of the World (1988). To go more recently, try Paul's Dinosaurs of the Air (2002), or the esteemed second edition of The Dinosauria (2004).


and this one compared T-rex to hyenas & such. in other words opportunists.
Farlow, J. O. and Holtz, T. R. Jr. 2002. The fossil record of predation in dinosaurs.

Hyenas are active predators. In fact, they're the main predators of the African savannah. They're pack hunters, endurance runners with powerful jaws, and they rely on the "run and bite" school of predation. Of course they're excellent comparisons to most large, predatory dinosaurs.
Cullons
21-09-2006, 15:56
Wait.
Why is popular literature not a valid source of information?
If you claim its pseudo-scientific, made-up or biased I would undertand (preferably with a reason why) but other wise, saying "AHAHAHAHAHA. Sorry, but popular literature isn't a valid source" means nothing.

Hyenas are also excellent scavengers. But to be more specific I was refering to the brown stripe heyna (hyena hyena i beleive) not the laughing hyena (which is an excellent hunter).

What about the last quote from Parsons?
Cullons
21-09-2006, 16:06
Currently true. But peoples ability to create things that were previously thought impossible is simply amazing. It may not happen within our or the next lifetime, but I have no doubts that the technology to take humans out past our own solar system will be discovered and built. We are nothing, if not imaginitive.

And thus far, the only planets researchers say they are capable of detecting are massive, bigger-than-Jupiter gas planets. A small ball of dirt like ours may very well be as common or, more common than those big fart-bags. Just because they haven't found it yet, doesn't mean someone won't.

One small point.
Supposedly Titan would be a feasible plant to terraform/inhabite in the future. So who's to say those "big fat-bags" don't have potential moons around them?
Mandellavia
21-09-2006, 16:45
One small point.
Supposedly Titan would be a feasible plant to terraform/inhabite in the future. So who's to say those "big fat-bags" don't have potential moons around them?

Here, here!
CthulhuFhtagn
21-09-2006, 19:32
Wait.
Why is popular literature not a valid source of information?
Hasn't gone through peer review.


Hyenas are also excellent scavengers. But to be more specific I was refering to the brown stripe heyna (hyena hyena i beleive) not the laughing hyena (which is an excellent hunter).
Well, I need to get ahold of a copy of it. Know where it was published? I'm surprised the predator/prey ratios would suggest what you say they suggest, because the ratios for late Maastrichian fauna in Hell Creek and Bug Creek are extremely small, suggesting that the predators around were big, endothermic, and rare. T. rex was the only large predator around at the time. The assumption that it chased other animals away from carcasses require there to be more than one large predator. Also, T. rex is known to be a pack animal, a social structure found only in active predators.


What about the last quote from Parsons?
It supports me. All it says is that sauropods may have not been endothermic. However, he have recently figured out the growth rates of sauropods, which firmly placed them into the endothermic category. I'm not sure what paper it is, but I know it's out there.
CthulhuFhtagn
21-09-2006, 19:40
One small point.
Supposedly Titan would be a feasible plant to terraform/inhabite in the future. So who's to say those "big fat-bags" don't have potential moons around them?

Titan isn't a feasible planet to inhabit. Also, you seem to have missed the point that the nearest planets outside of our solar system are too far away for us to reach. The closest one to earth is 8.1 light years. Even if we could travel right below the speed of light, that'd still take too long. (IIRC, the fastest spaceship we could conceivably make would travel at around 0.1c. And it can't brake.)
Fishcakia
21-09-2006, 19:48
I'd have to go with T-Rex on this one. And question your sanity.

The Gobblers would only win if they had "Special Thanksgiving Subject's" Suiciding with parachutes and bazookas. But that would be insane.
Cullons
29-09-2006, 12:31
Titan isn't a feasible planet to inhabit. Also, you seem to have missed the point that the nearest planets outside of our solar system are too far away for us to reach. The closest one to earth is 8.1 light years. Even if we could travel right below the speed of light, that'd still take too long. (IIRC, the fastest spaceship we could conceivably make would travel at around 0.1c. And it can't brake.)


Curious, what planet is that?
Of course it is currently not feasible to get to the nearest neighbouring star system. But the nearest star system systems are just over 4 light years away, or better said 25.8 trillion miles away.
little is currently feasible but it is all definitely possible. One will lead to the other