NationStates Jolt Archive

Don't believe me? Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co1_9lR9EpM&eurl=

Anyone else nervous?

Well, he is a good president and all, but that's taking it to an unhealthy extreme.

Well, he is a good president and all, but that's taking it to an unhealthy extreme.That is perhaps the understatement of the day.

Nah. I feel bad for the kids because they will be relegated to the sidelines of our culture when they get older, but they are far too fringe to have any real impact. People are just going to laugh at them the way they do Phelps and his ilk.

We're so fucking screwed.

I mean, they're training to be WARRIORS. Who can't see a military religious coup coming up soon?

Don't believe me? Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co1_9lR9EpM&eurl=

Anyone else nervous?

Nervous would be one word for it. I prefer "I'm moving to Canada" myself.

That is perhaps the understatement of the day.

If you think the Jesus Camp looks bad, wait 'till you see the Mohammed Camp. In comparison, the Jesus Camp looks like a walk in the park.

A growing movement, eh? Canada it is then.

For some reason youtube is hating me tonight, and I want to see this. Could anyone give me a summary?

There are over 300 islamic madrassas in america, none of which get even close to the extremism of this camp. Go figure.

Don't believe me? Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co1_9lR9EpM&eurl=

Anyone else nervous?

Nervous? I'm practically trembling while pouring myself a generous libation after having watched that! Maybe it's 'cause I finally watched V for Vendetta last night, maybe it's 'cause it's fall - but yup, that's what this is, Nazz - an American Madrassa. Designed to turn out a generation of Christian Taliban.

I wonder how many of those kids were sent against their will 'cause Mom & Dad found out something they didn't wanna know about Junior or Missy. I wonder how many of them are sublimating and subsuming their own spirits in order to fit into some whackjob's idea of how things are supposed to be.

where is space camp when you need it!

edit: and I think we all know what happens at camp that there parents won't like :p

Nah. I feel bad for the kids because they will be relegated to the sidelines of our culture when they get older, but they are far too fringe to have any real impact. People are just going to laugh at them the way they do Phelps and his ilk.

I used to think that, and then I read Kevin Phillips's American Theocracy, and he quotes studies that show that fundamentalist and evanglical groups have been growing steadily as a percentage of the population for the last couple hundred years. At present, they make up about 58% of the Republican party. Now the group in the video is just a small offshoot of that evangelical movement, but I fear that they'll gain more and more influence instead of less.

I lack words.

Another scary aspect is that American evangelicals are trying to export the shit to us. Just last week various Christian cunts made a big stink about adding something similar to "under God" to - at least - the preamble to the EU constitution (which is being revised in these days).

Do I fear Sharia-loving orthodox Muslims trying to undermine our values? Not in the least. They haven't got a chance in hell.

Do I fear the Christian orthodox movement that's trying to infiltrate both education & politics? Oh hell yes. Because they're every bit as barking mad & these guys do have a fighting chance.

Damn.. One of these days I'm gonna start playing drums in a deathmetal band & burn churches.

For some reason youtube is hating me tonight, and I want to see this. Could anyone give me a summary?

http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/

I wonder how many of those kids were sent against their will 'cause Mom & Dad found out something they didn't wanna know about Junior or Missy. I wonder how many of them are sublimating and subsuming their own spirits in order to fit into some whackjob's idea of how things are supposed to be.
I wonder how many of them people like us are going to have to kill to prevent ourselves from being killed.

Nervous? I'm practically trembling while pouring myself a generous libation after having watched that! Maybe it's 'cause I finally watched V for Vendetta last night, maybe it's 'cause it's fall - but yup, that's what this is, Nazz - an American Madrassa. Designed to turn out a generation of Christian Taliban.

I wonder how many of those kids were sent against their will 'cause Mom & Dad found out something they didn't wanna know about Junior or Missy. I wonder how many of them are sublimating and subsuming their own spirits in order to fit into some whackjob's idea of how things are supposed to be.

the creepiest part of it is they don't even attempt to deny it...she flat out says she wants children to be prepared to die for their religion...and means it.

For some reason youtube is hating me tonight, and I want to see this. Could anyone give me a summary?

Imagine a hyper-christian version of an Islamic madrassa, and set it in North Dakota. Then scream.

The rhetoric is eerily similar--statements by children about being warrios for god and speaking admirably about people in foreign lands who lay down their lives for their god.

I used to think that, and then I read Kevin Phillips's American Theocracy, and he quotes studies that show that fundamentalist and evanglical groups have been growing steadily as a percentage of the population for the last couple hundred years. At present, they make up about 58% of the Republican party. Now the group in the video is just a small offshoot of that evangelical movement, but I fear that they'll gain more and more influence instead of less.

Maybe. I don't know. I don't plan on being here much longer. As soon as I get my Master's Degree I'm off to the Southern Hemisphere. Is that supposed to be capitalized? :confused:

the creepiest part of it is they don't even attempt to deny it...she flat out says she wants children to be prepared to die for their religion...and means it.

And whats even scarier than that is that no elected official would dare try to shut this place down.

Maybe. I don't know. I don't plan on being here much longer. As soon as I get my Master's Degree I'm off to the Southern Hemisphere. Is that supposed to be capitalized? :confused:

Master's is. None of the rest.

If you think the Jesus Camp looks bad, wait 'till you see the Mohammed Camp. In comparison, the Jesus Camp looks like a walk in the park.

I demand a source!

And where’s the Buddha camp?

It's scary. I admit, that sort of stuff bothers me, such blatant indoctrination.

If you think the Jesus Camp looks bad, wait 'till you see the Mohammed Camp. In comparison, the Jesus Camp looks like a walk in the park.

look about the same to me,

And whats even scarier than that is that no elected official would dare try to shut this place down.

Not until they kill someone, does there become a justification for closing a place like this. The US Constitution will guarantee that these places are protected.

All the same, I'm still keeping my Swiss ancestry as a last-resort back door.

I demand a source!

And where’s the Buddha camp?I think I'm gonna start a heathen anarchist camp. Train up some kids to be warriors against religious bullshit & hierarchies.

I think I'm gonna start a heathen anarchist camp. Train up some kids to be warriors against religious bullshit & hierarchies.

Isn't that called college?

Not until they kill someone, does there become a justification for closing a place like this. The US Constitution will guarantee that these places are protected.

All the same, I'm still keeping my Swiss ancestry as a last-resort back door.

Waco was raided just for stockpiling weapons, legal weapons I might add, but that was a solitary group.

These guys will be backed up by the whole christian lobby, it'd be political suicide to try and close it down, especially for a republican.

Isn't that called college?

only if you throw in a shot of hedonism

Isn't that called college?

Not for me, college has been Alcoholism and slacking camp.

Isn't that called college?Bollox. Those things teach obedience to hierarchies, especially the established political ones.

Waco was raided just for stockpiling weapons, legal weapons I might add, but that was a solitary group.

These guys will be backed up by the whole christian lobby, it'd be political suicide to try and close it down, especially for a republican.

Waco was raided for weapons violations and suspected child molestation. If you have no evidence of a crime being commited you can't close it down.

The Bill of Rights
Amendments I - X

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Waco was raided just for stockpiling weapons, legal weapons I might add, but that was a solitary group.

These guys will be backed up by the whole christian lobby, it'd be political suicide to try and close it down, especially for a republican.

Does the place have weapons? If it does, then it's the job of the State Troopers, and an appointed judge to issue a warrant.

Although, I thought Waco was also raided because they were afraid that there was child abuse going on in there as well.

Not for me, college has been Alcoholism and slacking camp.

Oh, man do I miss that. :(

I think I'm gonna start a heathen anarchist camp. Train up some kids to be warriors against religious bullshit & hierarchies.

I think I've tried five different approaches to respond and I can't honestly say I know what to say. I'm at a loss; nothing even remotely glib comes to mind - this is the serious bad stuff I've always known was coming down the pipe, and I'm ashamed to admit I'd hoped it would wait for my eventual egress from this continuum before coming about.

Oh, man do I miss that. :(

It's great, I really regret that I'm on track to graduate two quarters early.

It's great, I really regret that I'm on track to graduate two quarters early.

well, at least I'm going back! :) To get my Master's! :) I'm a little older and unable to drink as much as I used to, but living on scholarships and loans again should be fun. :)

Does the place have weapons? If it does, then it's the job of the State Troopers, and an appointed judge to issue a warrant.

Although, I thought Waco was also raided because they were afraid that there was child abuse going on in there as well.

Yes it was, sorry about that.

if the GOP is still in power when or if these guys start amassing weapons I doubt they will lift a finger to stop it.

Don't believe me? Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co1_9lR9EpM&eurl=

Anyone else nervous?
I hate it when kids become the tools of other person's agendas. They can't find support for their beliefs among other reasonable adults, so they turn to the kids that aren't old enough to have their own ideas about the world.

About the only ray of sunshine in this whole matter is that these kids are young enough to change. If they stay in church communities where the beliefs and spirit of this camp are reinforced, then I think they may grow up to be hard-line fundamentalists. But, if they get into more secular enviroments and are exposed to different points of view, I think there is hope that they will be at least moderate chrisitans, open to respecting other viewpoints.

well, at least I'm going back! :) To get my Master's! :) I'm a little older and unable to drink as much as I used to, but living on scholarships and loans again should be fun. :)

It's the life, I've responsibility, but not too much, and, being not 21 yet, people buy me booze all of the time.

Yes it was, sorry about that.

if the GOP is still in power when or if these guys start amassing weapons I doubt they will lift a finger to stop it.

Again, they can't and they shouldn't be able to.

The Bill of Rights
Amendments I - X

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I think I've tried five different approaches to respond and I can't honestly say I know what to say. I'm at a loss; nothing even remotely glib comes to mind - this is the serious bad stuff I've always known was coming down the pipe, and I'm ashamed to admit I'd hoped it would wait for my eventual egress from this continuum before coming about.Yes well, apart from pathetic attempts at bleak humour I'm not faring any better.

It's outrageous, it's insane & it's waaay too fucking close to home - and right inside your home.

I think it's interesting to note how child molestation is defined though. If a camp like the one in the clip was established here, the police would shut it down for violating the children & we'd prolly have a huge crisis over whether & where to relocate the poor kids.

Young adults (that's 16 year olds) can attend psycho factories like that, but 8-10 year olds like in the clip aren't old enough to voluntarily submit themselves to brainwashing & such a camp would be deemed a human rights violation here. Jehova's wankers & similar insane cults learned that lesson in the late 60s & early 70s here, when the US evangelicals & fanatical cults in general grew internationally. I remember reading how some families resorted to moving out of the country so they could keep up their child abuse.

*sighs*

Insane people are very hard to deal with. If you outlaw their insanity, all you get are criminally insane people. If you don't, they consider it confirmation & acceptance, and merrily go about abusing children & conning adults.

These particular fuckers are so damn deranged I'm almost inclined to suggest having them put down like the rabid animals they are. Almost.

Bollox. Those things teach obedience to hierarchies, especially the established political ones.

Then you obvously haven't taken my class in Anarcho-Syndicatistic Communal Lifestyles. :D

trully frightening, a terrorist training camp if i ever saw one. i love the little girl's quote (paraphrased) "it's like we're training to be warriors..... only in a fun way *nods* *shifty eyes*"

trully frightening, a terrorist training camp if i ever saw one. i love the little girl's quote (paraphrased) "it's like we're training to be warriors..... only in a fun way *nods* *shifty eyes*"

Yep. I mean, when I was a kid and in church and we sang stuff like "Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war," it was understood that it was supposed to be symbolic, you know? I mean, I'm not alone when I hear the rhetoric of suicide bombers in that clip, am I?

Yep. I mean, when I was a kid and in church and we sang stuff like "Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war," it was understood that it was supposed to be symbolic, you know? I mean, I'm not alone when I hear the rhetoric of suicide bombers in that clip, am I?

Furthermore, if they were chanting "onward muslim warriors" they would be in gitmo faster than it takes jolt to post this...er, post

Yep. I mean, when I was a kid and in church and we sang stuff like "Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war," it was understood that it was supposed to be symbolic, you know? I mean, I'm not alone when I hear the rhetoric of suicide bombers in that clip, am I?

nope, i heard it loud and clear. to be honest when i was a kid and in church and we sang "onward christian soldiers" i was just fidgeting and screaming like some kind of ginger damien and not paying any attention to the message whatsoever, so seeing those kids get so worked up over the whole thing really scared me anyway.

Furthermore, if they were chanting "onward muslim warriors" they would be in gitmo faster than it takes jolt to post this...er, post

truer words were never (well rarely) typed.

Yep. I mean, when I was a kid and in church and we sang stuff like "Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war," it was understood that it was supposed to be symbolic, you know? I mean, I'm not alone when I hear the rhetoric of suicide bombers in that clip, am I?

You aren't alone. I'm scared of people like that, and I'm scared of what could happen when they don't get their way, or even worse, when they do get their way.

I wouldn't be surprised if people like this removed the "as" in 'Onward Christian Soldiers'.

You aren't alone. I'm scared of people like that, and I'm scared of what could happen when they don't get their way, or even worse, when they do get their way.

I wouldn't be surprised if people like this removed the "as" in 'Onward Christian Soldiers'.

"unto" rather than "as to"? I do seem to recall encountering that particular variation at a Baptist congregation I once visited...

Yep. I mean, when I was a kid and in church and we sang stuff like "Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war," it was understood that it was supposed to be symbolic, you know? I mean, I'm not alone when I hear the rhetoric of suicide bombers in that clip, am I?

Nah, I can hear it just fine. Church was always about Sunday activities, hanging out with the other Christian kids, and making fun of the minister for me at that age. I did go on a few retreats and mission trips, but the focus was always about shining as an example to other by deeds and words, not forcing our views by active protest or becoming "Christian soldiers". This just goes so far over to the side of agressive evangelizing it's just a step away from coercive conversion.

"unto" rather than "as to"? I do seem to recall encountering that particular variation at a Baptist congregation I once visited...

I've never been toa Baptist congregation. I was raised amidst nice, mild mannered Methodists with a Pastor who had been exiled from Apartheid-era South Africa because he was a white dude who openly opposed Apartheid. I got tolerance and acceptance from Church, not hate and anger. I was always told that being decent to those who are different is what Christ taught, not violence and anger. That made an impact on me, and it's important from my viewpoint.

When I went to church while growing up, we took courses on comparative theology, ecology, human sexuality and were encouraged to rummage through the church library. We were offered the chance to become full members of our congregation at age 12, should we choose - and I did, so I could get in on what was going on upstairs - which, in a particularly liberal Unitarian Universalist congregation in Montreal in the 70s/80s, was always something relatively lively or thought-provoking.

I eventually attended a Unitarian summer-camp and found myself embracing my spiritual side. But ultimately, more along the afore-mentioned lines of anarcho-syndicalism than anything else.

We're so fucking screwed.

I mean, they're training to be WARRIORS. Who can't see a military religious coup coming up soon?

yeah- the part where they were wiring detonators was scary...:rolleyes:

The problem with this sort of thing is that children and even teenagers are very impressionable, and unless a balanced, objective view of the world is presented to them, they will grow up with misconceptions about people they don't know about. This leads to stereotyping and bigotry.

The problem with this sort of thing is that children and even teenagers are very impressionable, and unless a balanced, objective view of the world is presented to them, they will grow up with misconceptions about people they don't know about. This leads to stereotyping and bigotry.

Exactly, this is open and naked indoctrination, this could potentially cause long lasting damage to the kids psyche

So, gentlemen, the real question is: do we go in there with chainguns or miniguns?

Somehow I don't see Mom and Dad shelling for deprogrammers anytime in the future. Presumably, they're hunky-dory with the goings-on at this indoctrination camp.

So, gentlemen, the real question is: do we go in there with chainguns or miniguns?

Staple guns. And lots of paperwork, in triplicate. As much paperwork as possible.

Staple guns. And lots of paperwork, in triplicate. As much paperwork as possible.

Exactly!

So, gentlemen, the real question is: do we go in there with chainguns or miniguns?Obviously I don't play enough computergames.. I thought those were two words for the same?

Obviously I don't play enough computergames.. I thought those were two words for the same?

Actually, you play too many; video games have somehow merged miniguns and chainguns, although they're actually quite different. A minigun has multiple barrels that rotate and fire. A chaingun has one barrel that fires really fast (like a "super" machinegun). Both are externally powered.

FWIW, here's the site for Kids in Ministry International (http://kidsinministry.com/), which runs the "Kids on Fire Summer School of Ministry" (http://kidsinministry.com/Current.PastEvents/WavesOfGlory.html) the films about. I'd say some posters here are blowing this all out of proportion. (But that's par for the course here on NSG. :rolleyes:)

Obviously I don't play enough computergames.. I thought those were two words for the same?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/54/M242-2.png/250px-M242-2.png
Chaingun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaingun)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Gatling_Minigun.jpg/300px-Gatling_Minigun.jpg
Minigun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun)

(The later is a scaled down version of one of the gattling guns used on US combat aircraft.)

http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/



That may well be the very worst movie trailer site which I have ever seen. I'm hardly concerned about the Kids on Fire camp though. I think it is hilarious in very much the same way I think that the views and political agenda of the makers of this shockumentary are hilarious.

Christian soldiers, Muslim soldiers, Pagan soldiers...I don't give a shit WHO you are, if you're fighting against people because they don't believe in your religion, you can get a cold dose of 12-guage reality courtesy of my atheistic shotgun.

Eh.. I appreciate the graphic clarification, but you're starting to scare me as much as that clip did :p

Eh.. I appreciate the graphic clarification, but you're starting to scare me as much as that clip did :p

Hah. If only.

Seriously though, I won't put up for this. I'm going to write to my Congressman to have this place shut down. Find SOME reason to do it.

(Of course, at the moment, that Congressman is Tom Tancredo, so I think we know his answer to my letter.)

Hah. If only. :D

Seriously though, I won't put up for this. I'm going to write to my Congressman to have this place shut down. Find SOME reason to do it.

(Of course, at the moment, that Congressman is Tom Tancredo, so I think we know his answer to my letter.)I just looked the guy up, so I see what you mean. Still, it's worth a shot. If nothing else, then just to let him know not everyone thinks child abuse is a great idea.

Btw, what's his thing with immigrants?

:D

I just looked the guy up, so I see what you mean. Still, it's worth a shot. If nothing else, then just to let him know not everyone thinks child abuse is a great idea.

Btw, what's his thing with immigrants?

I certainly do plan on writing that letter anyway, as well as getting my family members to do so as well.

As for that...he's just one of those insane "ZOMG YOU NOT BORN IN USA SO YOU EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL!" type idiots. He never cares about anything else, and doesn't DO anything in Congress besides rant about immigrants and vote against things like aid for Katrina victims and women's rights on various issues and whatnot.

For some reason youtube is hating me tonight, and I want to see this. Could anyone give me a summary?

You can find the trailer for jesuscamp on imdb.

You know what bothers me the most about this is it gives a bad name to people who are running youth groups that aren't spouting this type of bullshit, but will wind up getting painted with the same brush. I'm not particularly religous my self but my dad works as a youth minister at one of our local churches, though he does about as much work with the local neighbor kids giving them something to do that keeps them off the streets as he does with the kids of parish members, and I can't help but think about how diametricaly opposed this is to what he is trying to teach abou the good parts of Jesus' mesage things like love your neighbor and so forth. Admitadly its a Catholic and not a evangellical group, though I will point out that it is part of the first or second most liberal parish in the archdiocees, with us being parishioners of the other contender for the position just to cercumvent any comments on Catholicism. But, still this is just appalling it seems so angry which is so far from Jesus' message:( I mean damn...

Yeah sorry for the rant there and any spelling its like 2am here and I've been up since 7am so I realy ought to be crashing, not that I'm going to:rolleyes:

Don't believe me? Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co1_9lR9EpM&eurl=

Anyone else nervous?
As a Christian I say to that, "HOLY JESUS! aAAH!"

Bizarre and decadent, though unless these Protestant madrassa multiply they're merely raising the next generation of fringe radicals.

Hah. If only.

Seriously though, I won't put up for this. I'm going to write to my Congressman to have this place shut down. Find SOME reason to do it.

(Of course, at the moment, that Congressman is Tom Tancredo, so I think we know his answer to my letter.)

I don't know, as scary and gah! as that place is, I don't think I'd want to live in a place that would shut it down. It's too vague a line to draw, frankly. Because I'm creeped out by it and think that yeah, scaring kids and telling them, "You know what would be great? Is if you died for Jesus!" (I can't help but think that where he to exist he'd be going, "I think you missed the point, I did the dieing...so...ah fuck it. You guys are on your own.") but they're not my kids. They're not using government dimes so on a certain level they, I guess, can be taught any kind of nonsense.

It's the specific justification for shutting it down that I can't see as anything other than the pisspoor pornography standard of "I'll know it when I see it." I don't like that precedent. So even though I don't like this and I don't think people should send their kids to it, I would limit my reaction to saying, "I don't like this and I don't think you should send your kids to it." But to go so far as to having the government shut it down instead of it closing its doors because people think it's a stupid idea, that sets a precedent that I don't like.

I mean, they're training to be WARRIORS. Who can't see a military religious coup coming up soon?
Probably more like a small terrorist movement.

They really are backwards thinking. They view Pakistan and Palestine as ideal societies.

Now the group in the video is just a small offshoot of that evangelical movement, but I fear that they'll gain more and more influence instead of less.
What should be done about it? What will you (I'd say we, but I'm not American) do about it?

He never cares about anything else, and doesn't DO anything in Congress besides rant about immigrants and vote against things like aid for Katrina victims and women's rights on various issues and whatnot.
How Hispanic does "Tancredo" sound? Insufficiently Anglo-Saxon, deport him!

What should be done about it? What will you (I'd say we, but I'm not American) do about it?

Much as places like that bother me personally, I'm with CToaN on this--I wouldn't want to live in a country that would shut it down simply because of their message. I'd certainly keep an eye on them, and if their message spread to advocating violence, I'd be ready to move.

Much as places like that bother me personally, I'm with CToaN on this--I wouldn't want to live in a country that would shut it down simply because of their message. I'd certainly keep an eye on them, and if their message spread to advocating violence, I'd be ready to move.
If I was running the government I'd spy on them, and I suspect that the US Government may be doing so. I hear they like spying.

Shutting them down is the wrong course of action. It would just give the Christian right more ammunition for their claims of persecution complex.