NationStates Jolt Archive

Probably not what Fass would have preferred...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/17/sweden.election.result.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest

A center-right opposition vowing to streamline Sweden's famed welfare state ousted the Social Democratic government in a close parliamentary election Sunday, ending 12 years of leftist rule in the Nordic nation.

Prime Minister Goran Persson, who had governed for 10 years, conceded defeat and said his Cabinet would resign after the Social Democratic Party's worst election result in decades.

With 99.7 percent of districts counted, the four-party opposition alliance led by Fredrik Reinfeldt had 48.1 percent of the votes, compared with 46.2 percent for the Social Democrats and their two supporting parties.

Is it me, or are more and more countries in the West turning to the right (if only a little bit)?

Comment by Europeans on this election result would be greatly appreciated.

Yes, but our ideas of the right wing alternative would probably be to the left of the Democrats in your eyes.

Yes, but our ideas of the right wing alternative would probably be to the left of the Democrats in your eyes.

Oh, I'm sure. Our two parties are barely discernible in my eyes.

Each wants to take away specific private rights, and carry home pork for their constituents, and if one party starts a war, the other is against it.

I would give our Democrats high marks, however, for being able to fuck the poor, and doom millions to generations of permanent indolence, and still convince the poor souls to vote for them.

iam going to vote in the upcomming dutch elections for the "PVDA" (social democrats)

Yes, but our ideas of the right wing alternative would probably be to the left of the Democrats in your eyes.

I don't think the BNP is to the left of the US Democrats.

I don't think the BNP is to the left of the US Democrats.

Whoops. I take that back. Democratic candidates and their staffers have described a black candidate in Maryland as an "Oreo" and a "traitor to his race" and an "Uncle Tom" and various racial slurs against blacks. They also insist that he is backed by "rich people with big noses" which I take to be an anti-Semitic slur.

So, Democrats here are probably more racist than the BNP.

No Party Monopoly can last forever. The Swedish Social Democrats have been in control for most Swedes life time, I guess a lot of Swedes just want to see what the other side can do for them for a while.

No Party Monopoly can last forever. The Swedish Social Democrats have been in control for most Swedes life time, I guess a lot of Swedes just want to see what the other side can do for them for a while.

Are the parties in Sweden really that far apart, policywise?

Educate me.

Are the parties in Sweden really that far apart, policywise?

Educate me.

Maybe once before, but lately the parties have been moving closer and closer to each other. From left to right (economically) the parties are:

- Left (near-commie)
- Social Democrat (large public sector, high taxes, lots of welfare, etc)
- Environmental party (the greens, rather lefty)
- Center party (rural interest party)
- People's party (the liberals, economically a tad more right leaning)
- Christian democrats (right leaning economically, somewhat moralistic, though nowhere near American fundies)
- Moderates (smaller public sector, lower taxes, less welfare, smaller government)

The bottom 4 parties in the list above are the alliance that won the election, and ousted the long-sitting Social Democrats.

I for one am very happy about the regime change. Now that we've gotten rid of that stagnant and bloated government, maybe we can actually get some increased employment to go with our current economic growth.

Maybe once before, but lately the parties have been moving closer and closer to each other. From left to right (economically) the parties are:

- Left (near-commie)
- Social Democrat (large public sector, high taxes, lots of welfare, etc)
- Environmental party (the greens, rather lefty)
- Center party (rural interest party)
- People's party (the liberals, economically a tad more right leaning)
- Christian democrats (right leaning economically, somewhat moralistic, though nowhere near American fundies)
- Moderates (smaller public sector, lower taxes, less welfare, smaller government)

The bottom 4 parties in the list above are the alliance that won the election, and ousted the long-sitting Social Democrats.

I for one am very happy about the regime change. Now that we've gotten rid of that stagnant and bloated government, maybe we can actually get some increased employment to go with our current economic growth.

I find the European Parliamentary system absolutely fascinating, and how the party dynamics intermingle.

Oh, I'm sure. Our two parties are barely discernible in my eyes.

Each wants to take away specific private rights, and carry home pork for their constituents, and if one party starts a war, the other is against it.

I would give our Democrats high marks, however, for being able to fuck the poor, and doom millions to generations of permanent indolence, and still convince the poor souls to vote for them.

Indeed. It's pretty sad that USA has basically one political party masquerading as two. It's more sad how the other parties are being opressed by random laws, voting being regulated by a private corporation owned jointly by the Democratic and Republican parties, and a great campaign to make people ignorant that other parties either exist.

For example, I have met several people who believe it is in fact against the law or your vote is not counted if you vote for a third party.

Indeed. It's pretty sad that USA has basically one political party masquerading as two. It's more sad how the other parties are being opressed by random laws, voting being regulated by a private corporation owned jointly by the Democratic and Republican parties, and a great campaign to make people ignorant that other parties either exist.

For example, I have met several people who believe it is in fact against the law or your vote is not counted if you vote for a third party.

Considering how difficult it is for any third party candidate to get any kind of funds to go up against the two parties it is no wonder that no one knows that you have a choice then just Democrats or Republicans.

Probably not what Fass would have preferred...I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think you should be so sure.Is it me, or are more and more countries in the West turning to the right (if only a little bit)?

Comment by Europeans on this election result would be greatly appreciated.Sweden both is & isn't representative of the drift towards the right.
The Social Democrats have had a virtually unbroken rule of Sweden since 1932. Much of the time they've ruled with majority, which has enabled them to integrate the party into the public sector in Sweden to a degree that you'll otherwise only find in places like Cuba, America & China.

The main reason they've been so successful is because they've not only had the support of the major Swedish unions, but also Swedish Industry. Obviously that left pretty much no one to lend support to other parties.
The success in balancing both the private sector's & social demands, is the basis on which the famous Swedish welfare state is build, and it is also the main reason the Social Democrats lost this election.

Swedish welfare policy does have it's drawbacks. A very obvious one is that despite growth, the unemployment rate remains stable at 7-8%. Mainly this is because hiring & especially firing people in Sweden isn't very easy & this is currently causing widespread stagnation amongst small & medium sized employers.
At the same time, the liberals (that's the Swedish right) have managed to usurp this otherwise traditionally (in Sweden, that is) Social Democratic issue up to this election, and they've managed to agree not to butcher the welfare state.

What was left for the Social Democrats to go to election on, was mostly immigration issues, which is also the only parallel you can draw to most of the rest of Europe.

A sort of Neo-neo-liberalism has been working it's way into Scandinavian politics over the past 10 years. The reason for the success is that they promise to revitalise welfare instead of dismanteling it, and at the same time do away with some of the beurocracy, lowering taxes & introducing fewer restrictions on the private sector. It is, of course, total bullshit, but it looks quite appetizing on the surface.

In the rest of Europe, the drift to the right is based mainly on two things.
Immigration is becomming a huge problem. Mainly because we Europeans as a rule haven't had any kind of meaningful integration policies ever, and thus have created a sort of sub-lower class made almost exclusively of immigrants with cultural backgrounds differing from ours. The new & improved right movement promises to address this by limiting or stopping immigration & making conditions even worse for immigrants (it's a sort of senseless anti-integration non-solution...).

The other reason is the problems associated with the rising economic inequality in Europe. The new right blames economic inequality on social issues, and promises to solve the problems created by the growing inequality, by increasing the inequality.

The reason this doesn't appear as insane to many people as I make it sound, is because a great many people feels a pretty desperate need for some sort of justice. Since there's pt. none to be had, the alternative is to take it out on eachother - which we increasingly do.

I find the European Parliamentary system absolutely fascinating, and how the party dynamics intermingle.

I've always thought it would be interesting if a US state were to adopt a parliamentary system.

*snip*

That's oversimplifying things a bit... the truth is that immigration issues came up in a very small degree this election. Employment and taxes were the big issues, and the main reason that the Social Democrats lost was because they had simply been in power for too long. They had no new ideas or strategies, other than ignoring problems. Their distorted image of reality didn't fit with the people's image: unemployment is high, the generous welfare system is overly abused, schools are rapidly diminishing in quality, etc.

Also, there was the question of who would form government. The Social Democrats had burned their bridges; had the left block won chaos would have ensued as they tried to form government, making gods know how many sacrifices. The liberal Alliance had its alternative ready and clear. Top that off with a Social Democrat party leader that came off as both tired and arrogant in every debate and you have the election results.

I've always thought it would be interesting if a US state were to adopt a parliamentary system.

U.S. Constitution, Article IV, Section 4: "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government".

Any attempt to create a state parliamentary system will surely be challenged. So, unless the U.S. Supreme Court finds that a parliamentary system comes within the definition of a "republican form of government," it's unlikely to happen.

U.S. Constitution, Article IV, Section 4: "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government".

Any attempt to create a state parliamentary system will surely be challenged. So, unless the U.S. Supreme Court finds that a parliamentary system comes within the definition of a "republican form of government," it's unlikely to happen.

Yes thank you, I'm quite aware of that particular Constitutional restriction. Why wouldn't it fall under the definition of a republican form of government? The Presidential system certainly isn't the only form a republic can take.

That's oversimplifying things a bit... True, true, but if I wrote a book about Sweden exclusively I'd still be oversimplifying - and half my post was about the rest of Europe.Also, there was the question of who would form government. The Social Democrats had burned their bridges; had the left block won chaos would have ensued as they tried to form government, making gods know how many sacrifices. The liberal Alliance had its alternative ready and clear. Top that off with a Social Democrat party leader that came off as both tired and arrogant in every debate and you have the election results.Yups. I indended to mention that as well, but it slipped my mind. This is the main reason I doubt DK's prediction of Fass' stance. He never struck me as a guy who wants his government paralysed by internal bickering.

The thing about European politics for the most part is that due to the parliamentary systems (PR and it's ilk) most of the elected parties will only ever be 'catch-all' parties.

You would rarely see a swing to the Left or Right on a national scale. Mostly the parties that gain election or re-election are (mildly) Left-of-Centre, Right-of-Centre or just plain Centerist. Funny though, as a trend- European politics does go through similar sweeps of centre-right to centre-left within a few months of each other.

Unlike the U.S., it is rare the polarisation of politics on a governmental scale (or close to it) occurs.

Is it me, or are more and more countries in the West turning to the right (if only a little bit)?


Only ever so slightly. Most electoral systems still exxagerate the gains from even slight shifts in voting preferences, and the media tends to look at seat counts rather than popular vote, which overlooks how the preferences really changed on the ground.

I don't think the BNP is to the left of the US Democrats.

Actually, believe it or not, they are. They just happen to be ultra-nationalistic and ultra authoritarian.

Indeed. It's pretty sad that USA has basically one political party masquerading as two. It's more sad how the other parties are being opressed by random laws, voting being regulated by a private corporation owned jointly by the Democratic and Republican parties, and a great campaign to make people ignorant that other parties either exist.

For example, I have met several people who believe it is in fact against the law or your vote is not counted if you vote for a third party.

If they don't know that then it's probably best that they don't vote. :)

maybe sweden will finally stop having embarassingly high taxes.

maybe sweden will finally stop having embarassingly high taxes. Maybe they will stop having such high quality of life as well. Really, it is embarassing ... for the rest of us.

I would give our Democrats high marks, however, for being able to fuck the poor, and doom millions to generations of permanent indolence, and still convince the poor souls to vote for them.
Alright lets's keep this thread about Europe.

Whoops. I take that back. Democratic candidates and their staffers have described a black candidate in Maryland as an "Oreo"
Describing someone as an Oreo is a compliment. Haven't you ever had one? They're fucking delicious.

I find the European Parliamentary system absolutely fascinating, and how the party dynamics intermingle.
The thought of living in a two-party nation makes me suck.

Any attempt to create a state parliamentary system will surely be challenged. So, unless the U.S. Supreme Court finds that a parliamentary system comes within the definition of a "republican form of government," it's unlikely to happen.
I live in a republic with a multi-party parliament.

I don't think the BNP is to the left of the US Democrats.
The BNP isn't really the first party that pops to mind when you think of the right-wing alternative in Britain. Both Britain's left-wingers (Libdems, Labour) and most of the right-wingers (conservatives, UKIP) hate the BNP.