NationStates Jolt Archive

To start let me state that I am just an ordinary man. Which mean I can't judge anyone.

This post is not about why people are hypocritical. I believe that many perceived ills of mankind (like hate, intolerance and violence) have adaptive advantages such that these behaviors tend to persist. In fact I have a pet hypothesis (http://freshbrainz.blogspot.com/2006/07/why-are-people-smart-and-angry.html) on how intelligence and belligerence in people came about. Similarly, hypocrisy: being two-faced and inconsistent, has many advantages as a strategy in social situations.

What I really want to ask is: why are we so offended by hypocrisy?

When I hear that people wage war to preserve peace, increase security measures to protect freedom, PETA members using medicines developed by labs to stay healthy enough to help destroy labs, anti-evolutionists using antibiotics to get well enough to oppose biology...I get really furious.

But why should I care, especially if people have been two-faced since the dawn of civilization? Since so many people are doing it, why does society (mine, at least) still think of hypocrisy as a negative trait?

Are you offended by hypocrisy and why?

Are you offended by hypocrisy and why?

I'm only offended by the type of hypocrisy of the moralists among us that continue to insist that we do as they say, and not as they do.

Bill Bennet is a shining example of this.

For instance. I don't consider it hypocritical for a broken down, old chain smoker to tell someone not to smoke if they use the "look what happened to me" defence. But, for someone to condemn gambling while betting on the ponies, then claiming that "I never bet the milk money", that's offensive.

To start let me state that I am just an ordinary man. Which mean I can't judge anyone.
Ordinary people judge all this time. Don't abstain unless you think you've got flawed judgment.
This post is not about why people are hypocritical. I believe that many perceived ills of mankind (like hate, intolerance and violence) have adaptive advantages such that these behaviors tend to persist. In fact I have a pet hypothesis (http://freshbrainz.blogspot.com/2006/07/why-are-people-smart-and-angry.html) on how intelligence and belligerence in people came about. Similarly, hypocrisy: being two-faced and inconsistent, has many advantages as a strategy in social situations.
Adaptive theory is difficult to use to explain emotions. Without knowledge of when emotions first showed up in humans and where, all you can do is rely on hypotheticals. Using today's society as a guide, you may be able to show why these emotions have stuck around, but gaining actual knowledge of the conditions that may have brought about emotional responses is close to impossible.

What I really want to ask is: why are we so offended by hypocrisy?

When I hear that people wage war to preserve peace, increase security measures to protect freedom, PETA members using medicines developed by labs to stay healthy enough to help destroy labs, anti-evolutionists using antibiotics to get well enough to oppose biology...I get really furious.

But why should I care, especially if people have been two-faced since the dawn of civilization? Since so many people are doing it, why does society (mine, at least) still think of hypocrisy as a negative trait?

Are you offended by hypocrisy and why?

First, the longevity and abundance of hypocrisy doesn't have much bearing on how desirable or acceptable it is to me. I don't care if people have been doing it since before they started walking upright, or that most everyone in the world has been doing it as a matter of course, that has no bearing on whether I like it or not.

Second, I am offended by hypocrisy. It undermines trust between individuals and prevents me from getting an idea of the values the people around me hold. In today's society, I have to depend upon people around me. It's not a choice, dependence upon others to provide electricity, water, food, glasses, etc. is built into modern society. In order to feel comfortable with trusting people I'll never meet to make or sell me these things, I have to have at least a basic level of trust, or even faith in some cases, that agreements will be followed through, otherwise I have to do without something I may need.

So, when someone acts hypocritically, even if the hypocrisy is in some part if their life unrelated to me, I lose a bit of trust in that person. I can't be sure that I won't be treated hypocritically as well, and in some cases I can't afford to have someone go back on their position, or not follow through on their side of the bargain. Thus, I get mad about hypocrisy and try to avoid doing it myself so that people will have a basis for trusting me and dealing with me, and I can deal with them. It just makes living in a dependent society like this more comfortable to avoid hypocrisy.

*snip*Adaptive theory is difficult to use to explain emotions. Without knowledge of when emotions first showed up in humans and where, all you can do is rely on hypotheticals. Using today's society as a guide, you may be able to show why these emotions have stuck around, but gaining actual knowledge of the conditions that may have brought about emotional responses is close to impossible.

Actually intelligence and aggression are observable behaviors, not just emotions. It is a testable prediction to see if archaeological artefacts pertaining to intelligence (such as enhanced tool making) or intraspecies aggression (such as remains of victims) have increased after the Toba catastrophe.

For the most part you are right though. Large scale evidence of cleverness and violence have only appeared after agriculture (circa 10000 BP) and formation of kingdoms, and their roots are likely multifactorial, so we may never know when these two characteristics appeared.

*snip* First, the longevity and abundance of hypocrisy doesn't have much bearing on how desirable or acceptable it is to me. I don't care if people have been doing it since before they started walking upright, or that most everyone in the world has been doing it as a matter of course, that has no bearing on whether I like it or not.

Second, I am offended by hypocrisy. It undermines trust between individuals and prevents me from getting an idea of the values the people around me hold. In today's society, I have to depend upon people around me. It's not a choice, dependence upon others to provide electricity, water, food, glasses, etc. is built into modern society. In order to feel comfortable with trusting people I'll never meet to make or sell me these things, I have to have at least a basic level of trust, or even faith in some cases, that agreements will be followed through, otherwise I have to do without something I may need.

So, when someone acts hypocritically, even if the hypocrisy is in some part if their life unrelated to me, I lose a bit of trust in that person. I can't be sure that I won't be treated hypocritically as well, and in some cases I can't afford to have someone go back on their position, or not follow through on their side of the bargain. Thus, I get mad about hypocrisy and try to avoid doing it myself so that people will have a basis for trusting me and dealing with me, and I can deal with them. It just makes living in a dependent society like this more comfortable to avoid hypocrisy.

You are saying that hypocrisy undermines trust, which is an essential component of building society. I agree. :)

However, as an additional point of discussion, do you think that hypocrisy is in the eye of the beholder? I can see obvious hypocrites who are revelled as great leaders in the eyes of their supporters. Perhaps hypocrisy has a deep emotion component in addition the bit about being consistent and practicing what you preach. :(

I am not offended by hypocrisy, as long as it is honest. We are not perfect beings.

What I really want to ask is: why are we so offended by hypocrisy?

When I hear that people wage war to preserve peace, increase security measures to protect freedom, PETA members using medicines developed by labs to stay healthy enough to help destroy labs, anti-evolutionists using antibiotics to get well enough to oppose biology...I get really furious.

But why should I care, especially if people have been two-faced since the dawn of civilization? Since so many people are doing it, why does society (mine, at least) still think of hypocrisy as a negative trait?

Are you offended by hypocrisy and why?
I am not offended, per se, but I rather dislike it. I recognize that I myself have been a hypocrite many times, probably in the hundreds, or maybe thousands.

Hypocrisy is a negative trait for a number of reasons. The first that comes to mind it that it is a form of dishonesty. For myself, I believe that complete and total honesty is a state attainable by people, and a state which would be highly desirable. But when what we say contradicts what we do, it alienates us from other people as well as from ourselves.

But when what we say contradicts what we do, it alienates us from other people as well as from ourselves.

What if we recognize this contradiction, and condemn ourselves for it?

What if we recognize this contradiction, and condemn ourselves for it?
When we recognize the contradiction, we can then work towards avoiding it in the future. I don't condemn myself for it, but I try to fix what I'm doing so that I'm a little bit less of a hypocrite.

What if we recognize this contradiction, and condemn ourselves for it?

I wouldn't call that hypocrisy. It's the people who adamantly refuse to see the contradiction and persist in being two-faced who are hypocrites.

I wouldn't call that hypocrisy. It's the people who adamantly refuse to see the contradiction and persist in being two-faced who are hypocrites.
What if we do see the contradiction and still persist in being two-faced?

What if we do see the contradiction and still persist in being two-faced?

Say an example?

Say an example?

I can't stand Bush. Never have been able to. But you wouldn't have seen me canvassing for Kerry or Dean or anybody last election. I was just too damn apathetic to actually go and do anything, even though I really wanted Bush out.

Basically, I'm referring to situations where you're aware that you're doing one thing and saying another, but never bother to change what you're saying or doing.

I can't stand Bush. Never have been able to. But you wouldn't have seen me canvassing for Kerry or Dean or anybody last election. I was just too damn apathetic to actually go and do anything, even though I really wanted Bush out.

Basically, I'm referring to situations where you're aware that you're doing one thing and saying another, but never bother to change what you're saying or doing.

I'm thinking about behavior more along the lines of saying "I hate Bush!" in the open and secretly slipping money into his pocket.

This post is not about why people are hypocritical. I believe that many perceived ills of mankind (like hate, intolerance and violence) have adaptive advantages such that these behaviors tend to persist. In fact I have a pet hypothesis (http://freshbrainz.blogspot.com/2006/07/why-are-people-smart-and-angry.html) on how intelligence and belligerence in people came about. Similarly, hypocrisy: being two-faced and inconsistent, has many advantages as a strategy in social situations.

There is the possibilty that being hypocritcal and hatred or dislike of hypocrisy both have adaptive advantages.

The reason it it's not illegal is because we can't afford to house all the prisoners. :p

Wow.. I thought I might care a bit, but I just don't.

Also, it shouldn't be illegal as it is covered under Free Speech, and criminalising it would border on thoughtcrime.

Hypocrisy is destructive and usually authoritarian. I don't like it.

well hypocrisy is so integrated in human nature that for most people it is beyond control so i dont really mind it. i do however get murderous impulses when someone is being knowingly hypocritical especially when he is aware that someone who is listening to him knows (and i usually happen to be the one) because i take it as an insult to my intelligence - especially when it comes to moral issues.

but yes i also tend to be a hypocrite from time to time but always make sure it goes unnoticed not to insult anyone in the way i tend to feel insulted.

However, as an additional point of discussion, do you think that hypocrisy is in the eye of the beholder? I can see obvious hypocrites who are revelled as great leaders in the eyes of their supporters. Perhaps hypocrisy has a deep emotion component in addition the bit about being consistent and practicing what you preach. :(Hypocrisy can be judged objectively. However, most people practice their logical thinking highly selectively; as far as they go, any issue that can be determined objectively could be in the eye of their faulty minds.

Hypocrisy is destructive and usually authoritarian. I don't like it.

I know what you're saying. :)

Where hypocrisy and authority come together there is potential for a lot of pain and angst.

If hypocrisy were a crime, we'd need to build a prison on the moon to send everyone to.... and there would be about 30 people left on Earth.

I figure that hypocrisy probably has two main roots. First it is a way to have an advantage. In mating, in business, in survival settings, in card games, in debates, basically in any dealings with others if one person can enforce rules of conduct on others without having to follow the same rules he has won an advantage. Whether he knows he is being hypocritical or not. The second is that people often have difficulties understanding or even imagining situations from any perspective but their own. Most people dont particularly want to be hypocritical (In fact it just plain pissses us off when our hypocrisy is pointed out to us) we just dont always honestly notice. From our viewpoints hypocrisy is usually just getting our fair advantage, we dont see it as being unfair to the other side because we dont see things from the other sides perspective.

Right now fairness is not the natural state that occurs when people deal with one another. A sort of competition to end up with the best personal outcome is. To have fairness we have to actively try to be fair otherwise we naturally compete for advantage. One of the tools to gain advantage is hypocrisy. If at some point in the far future fairness somehow becomes our base state then hypocrisy will be a rare oddity. Until then it is one of the tools we use to try to get the best for our own selfish selves.

If hypocrisy were a crime, we'd need to build a prison on the moon to send everyone to.... and there would be about 30 people left on Earth.

And those 30 would be comatose.

I hate hypocrisy. I see it everywhere to some degree in everyone and hate it all.

I even see it in myself, and that is where I hate it most of all.

I hate hypocrisy. I see it everywhere to some degree in everyone and hate it all.

I even see it in myself, and that is where I hate it most of all.

I see it in myself too.

I think if more people are introspective of it then hypocrisy will be self-corrected and become less of a problem. :)

I figure that hypocrisy probably has two main roots. First it is a way to have an advantage. In mating, in business, in survival settings, in card games, in debates, basically in any dealings with others if one person can enforce rules of conduct on others without having to follow the same rules he has won an advantage. Whether he knows he is being hypocritical or not. The second is that people often have difficulties understanding or even imagining situations from any perspective but their own. Most people dont particularly want to be hypocritical (In fact it just plain pissses us off when our hypocrisy is pointed out to us) we just dont always honestly notice. From our viewpoints hypocrisy is usually just getting our fair advantage, we dont see it as being unfair to the other side because we dont see things from the other sides perspective.

Right now fairness is not the natural state that occurs when people deal with one another. A sort of competition to end up with the best personal outcome is. To have fairness we have to actively try to be fair otherwise we naturally compete for advantage. One of the tools to gain advantage is hypocrisy. If at some point in the far future fairness somehow becomes our base state then hypocrisy will be a rare oddity. Until then it is one of the tools we use to try to get the best for our own selfish selves.

An excellent discussion. *bows*

Certainly true that hypocrisy is a useful tool in many situations. However I find it interesting that so far no one has selected the "stratagem" option. I think trust and consistency is high on the ideals of many Generalites. :)

The hypocrisy of making nice to your boss so you can keep your job is a survival trait. Being nice to your despicable in-laws can save your marriage. Telling the new mom that her baby (who looks like Walter Cronkite) is beautiful will make her happy. Some hypocrisy is allowable and even to be preferred.

But the hypocrisy of religious fundamentalists or political ideologues who push their beliefs on people while refusing to practice them themselves is inexcusable.

The hypocrisy of men who hold women (and vice versa) to one standard of behavior while refusing to hold themselves to any standard of behavior is infuriating.

The "do as I say and not as I do" mentality of some parents is asking for trouble and is creating more hypocrites.

Unfortunately, making hypocrisy illegal would only mean that we'd all be in prison.

The hypocrisy of making nice to your boss so you can keep your job is a survival trait. Being nice to your despicable in-laws can save your marriage. Telling the new mom that her baby (who looks like Walter Cronkite) is beautiful will make her happy. Some hypocrisy is allowable and even to be preferred.

But the hypocrisy of religious fundamentalists or political ideologues who push their beliefs on people while refusing to practice them themselves is inexcusable.

The hypocrisy of men who hold women (and vice versa) to one standard of behavior while refusing to hold themselves to any standard of behavior is infuriating.

The "do as I say and not as I do" mentality of some parents is asking for trouble and is creating more hypocrites.

Unfortunately, making hypocrisy illegal would only mean that we'd all be in prison.

Wow you guys are so cogent!

*bows*

(sigh I miss Straughn...he usually does the bowing)

I also see hypocrisy in everyone and I hate it. I even see it in me, but in that case it's good :)

Anyway, someone proposed a bill to make it illegal but everyone else thought he was being sarcastic.

"Sure, let's ban it"
"No, no, I really mean it"
"Yeah, me too"

A later law against sarcasm suffered a similar faith.