NationStates Jolt Archive

There have been a lot of threads recently advocating parties for the upcoming NSG election. But I was wondering if there was anyone lurking around the forums for whom electioneering is an unknown thing, that is, is there anyone here who does not live in a nation where the government is not democratically elected?

I don't expect this thread to raise a lot of discussion, but I'm curious to see how the poll turns out.

Does a constitutional monarchy count?

How about a Democratic Republic?

I live in a country that is ruled in London and has no real say in who controls it.

So, no, not really.

Anything where your government is elected by you, the people. So, most Constitutional Monarchies (including Great Britain) count, as the Head of Government is elected, even if the Head of State may not be.

poland is a democracy so yes. but it might cease to be one because of those kachinsky guys. tradition is not something you should base a new governmnent on if you are in the 21st century. I mean, someone should tell them: its not how poland stopped being communist that matters, its the fact that it did.

Secular Republic, Türkiye Cumhuriyeti.

The current Head of State in my homeland won by election fraud. The voting machines used in that election where made by companies with close ties with his party. His father helped select some of the justices in our highest court. His brother is a state governor. Each day our civil liberties are being eroded in the name of combating non-existant terrorism.

I live in whats left of the United States of America.

Officially, a Republic, but for the OP, yes.

poland is a democracy so yes. but it might cease to be one because of those kachinsky guys. tradition is not something you should base a new governmnent on if you are in the 21st century. I mean, someone should tell them: its not how poland stopped being communist that matters, its the fact that it did.
Poland has surely one of the most ironic stories of national liberation ever. Communist government was beaten by a trade union movement. It's great.

The current Head of State in my homeland won by election fraud. The voting machines used in that election where made by companies with close ties with his party. His father helped select some of the justices in our highest court. His brother is a state governor. Each day our civil liberties are being eroded in the name of combating non-existant terrorism.

I live in whats left of the United States of America.

The fact that you could still post this (drivel) and not be picked up proves you DO live in a free country/democracy.

BTW, if you mean the Diebolds, we have NONE of them in Connecticut or New York. :rolleyes:

Poland has surely one of the most ironic stories of national liberation ever. Communist government was beaten by a trade union movement. It's great.

silly pro-communist. you don't see that communism is not that.

The fact that you could still post this (drivel) and not be picked up proves you DO live in a free country/democracy.


Because everyone currently detained (illegally) by the current (illegitimate) regime, MUST have been a gunweilding, bomblaying terrorist, caught in the act, yes?

This regime has proved categorically that it DOES imprison/torture innocents. That it does not (yet) imprison and torture ALL innocents, is hardly a glowing checkmark in the "It's all okay" box.

The fact that you could still post this (drivel) and not be picked up proves you DO live in a free country/democracy.
Freedom of speech is only permitted when it is ensured no one will listen to you.

I love these "first amendment zones" (free speech zones). They couldn't make it look it any worse. It bears a clear message: "Enter this small temporary jail if you want to exercise your so-called free speech right. Just get used to it, because it's where you belong."

This regime has proved categorically that it DOES imprison/torture innocents. That it does not (yet) imprison and torture ALL innocents, is hardly a glowing checkmark in the "It's all okay" box.

Yes, the democratically-elected "regime" has imprisoned a couple hundred terrorists who pose a grave danger to the security of our country. How the hell can you go from that to "all innocents"? Furthermore, they are not tortured due to the protesting of the pinko commies, not that they shouldn't be.

I mean, when I went to France last year, I was the French regime imprisoning a robber, but it later turned out he was innocent. That does not (yet) mean that the regime imprisons and tortures ALL innocents, but it's hardly a glowing checkmark in the "it's all OK" box.

See? It's ridiculous.

Because everyone currently detained (illegally) by the current (illegitimate) regime, MUST have been a gunweilding, bomblaying terrorist, caught in the act, yes?

Illegal detentions? Where? Last time I checked, the Court had ruled that Gitmo couldn't detain people indefinately, that's all.

The current President was elected twice. You might have had a point after the 2000 election, but right now you sound like the a small whiney child that keeps wanting "do-overs". :rolleyes:

This regime has proved categorically that it DOES imprison/torture innocents. That it does not (yet) imprison and torture ALL innocents, is hardly a glowing checkmark in the "It's all okay" box.

Um, what innocents? Show me these alleged citizens it has tortured.

Turn off the pundits and think for yourselves, people.

I live in michigan which is technically the last outpost of the soviet union.

I live in the UK, possibly the least democratic democracy on the planet. Let's explore that, shall we?

1) Our Head of State is entirely unelected. Not a huge problem in the eyes of pretty much everyone, but still, it's unelected and has huge amounts of power (Royal Perogatives) that she/he could use ay her/his discretion.

2) The dominance of the Executive. The executive, being the Cabinet and other ministerial officials is huge, and entirely drawn from Parliament, which has very little power over it, and is pretty much a rubber stamp for the ruling party. No checks or balances, even ones ususally used within the parliamentary system.

3) Poor representation. A Party can recieve just over 35% of the vote and yet win a majority in Parliament. 35% of the vote should equal 35% of seats, period. Elections should be about more than winning a few dozen key marginals.

4) Our 'federal' system. Our de facto federal system is completely mad. I'm going to whine like a middle-Englander, but what's good enough for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should be good enough for England, no? I mean, Labour Scottish MPs decided I'll have to pay thousands in top-up fees for uni knowning full well that they won't have to. It's maddening.

5) House of Lords. Seats should be won, not bought.

Rant over.

Does anyone here actually not live in a democratic state? Not just an American or Western European who has issues with the system, but some one from Belarus, China etc. I live in England, so I'm not bothered by the London government like peole from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Its kind of annoying that so many people whine about living in countries that are relatively free and democratic.

Anything where your government is elected by you, the people. So, most Constitutional Monarchies (including Great Britain) count, as the Head of Government is elected, even if the Head of State may not be.

Well technically us Brits don't elect our head of government. The party member of the political party with the most mps elected to the house of commons does.

I've only ever lived in republics. I personally don't think they count.

I live in a Saddam style democracy.

Does that count?

Not just an American or Western European who has issues with the system, but some one from Belarus, China etc.
And what's the big difference? Belarus and China are formally democratic as well, and as well just have issues with the system. And I'd actually question whether US is more democratic than the first of the countries you mentioned.

"You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship: a self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes..."

I live in a Saddam style democracy.

Does that count?

Canada?

Does anyone here actually not live in a democratic state? Not just an American or Western European who has issues with the system, but some one from Belarus, China etc. I live in England, so I'm not bothered by the London government like peole from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Its kind of annoying that so many people whine about living in countries that are relatively free and democratic.

Its annoying that so many people are contempt when we could be so much more free and democratic.

I live in a pineapple under the sea.

I live in a pineapple under the sea.

Do you have square pants?

No, I live in more or less a dictatorship with one man, unelected by the people, ruling more or less by decree.

4) Our 'federal' system. Our de facto federal system is completely mad. I'm going to whine like a middle-Englander, but what's good enough for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should be good enough for England, no?.

Well, if you want your country run by someone who has suspended a legitimately democratically elected legislature and rules by virtual decree, by a man belonging to a party that doesn't stand in elections in said country, then be my guest.

Does a corporate oligarchy masquerading as a federal republic count?

Well, if you want your country run by someone who has suspended a legitimately democratically elected legislature and rules by virtual decree

at least they had the deceny to actually suspend the legislature. we don't even get that level of respect over here.

The fact that you could still post this (drivel) and not be picked up proves you DO live in a free country/democracy.

BTW, if you mean the Diebolds, we have NONE of them in Connecticut or New York. :rolleyes:

out of curiostiy, what does Connecticut and NY not having Diebolds have to do with anything?

And it isn't exactly a thing of pride that the CT voting machines are no longer manufactured and can't be properly repaired when they break because they are so old.

Does a corporate oligarchy masquerading as a federal republic count?

United States or Australia?

I am efficively oppressed by Gordon Campbell the Satan Bringer. I only hope his government remains too incompetent to use his computer.

United States or Australia?

The US.

I live in a Constitutional Republic. And though I'm not happy with the direction it's been going in (since well before the current President, BTW), and I think its people should remember the saying about "eternal vigilance", at the moment it IS mostly a free country.

That's the USA, BTW.

omguguyzaresofunny.

Seriously, did anyone of the ten who voted 'no' actually live in a dictatorship? (N. Korea, pre-fucked-uppage Iraq) or were they all just disenchanted Americans and Brits?

(or disenchanted Frenchmen, Australians, Germans and the like).

omguguyzaresofunny.

Seriously, did anyone of the ten who voted 'no' actually live in a dictatorship? (N. Korea, pre-fucked-uppage Iraq) or were they all just disenchanted Americans and Brits?

(or disenchanted Frenchmen, Australians, Germans and the like).

meh, i voted no because of my marxist governor: jennifer granholm

I live in a presidential republic that makes use of a first past the post electoral system, which in turn gives rise to a two party system wherein the two major parties go out of their way to block and prevent the entry of other parties via support of restrictive regulations, outdated and unnecessary colonial gimmicks like the electoral college, and the ability to raise and spend fantastic amounts of money via collusion with the corporate juggernaut.

If this is democracy, democracy sucks.

**dons black beret and starts marching around in circles carrying a sign reading "Multiparty Proportional Representation, NOW!"**

I live under a statist-capitalist system often labeled a "democracy," and that, relative to many other countries, does indeed have certain democratic elements.

It falls very far short, however, of the ideal.

Well technically us Brits don't elect our head of government. The party member of the political party with the most mps elected to the house of commons does.

But it is our votes (as a whole) that determines the government. Voting for the loser does not mean your vote didn't count.

Begoner21;11688307']Yes, the democratically-elected "regime" has imprisoned a couple hundred terrorists who pose a grave danger to the security of our country. How the hell can you go from that to "all innocents"? Furthermore, they are not tortured due to the protesting of the pinko commies, not that they shouldn't be.

Because communists never torture people!

I mean, when I went to France last year, I was the French regime imprisoning a robber,

I defy you to make less sense!

but it later turned out he was innocent. That does not (yet) mean that the regime imprisons and tortures ALL innocents, but it's hardly a glowing checkmark in the "it's all OK" box.

See? It's ridiculous.

You missed the torture connection. Were you, the French regime torturing someone?

Begoner21;11688307']Yes, the democratically-elected "regime" has imprisoned a couple hundred terrorists who pose a grave danger to the security of our country. How the hell can you go from that to "all innocents"? Furthermore, they are not tortured due to the protesting of the pinko commies, not that they shouldn't be.

I mean, when I went to France last year, I was the French regime imprisoning a robber, but it later turned out he was innocent. That does not (yet) mean that the regime imprisons and tortures ALL innocents, but it's hardly a glowing checkmark in the "it's all OK" box.

See? It's ridiculous.

So in your world things like this (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1406987,00.html) are just fine because after all they are protecting people?

for those that don't care to click the link let me give a couple of examples

The seemingly interminable questioning had already lasted for hours. 'I needed the toilet,' Mubanga said, 'and I asked the interrogator to let me go. But he just said, "you'll go when I say so". I told him he had five minutes to get me to the toilet or I was going to go on the floor. He left the room. Finally, I squirmed across the floor and did it in the corner, trying to minimise the mess. I suppose he was watching through a one-way mirror or the CCTV camera. He comes back with a mop and dips it in the pool of urine. Then he starts covering me with my own waste, like he's using a big paintbrush, working methodically, beginning with my feet and ankles and working his way up my legs. All the while he's racially abusing me, cussing me: "Oh, the poor little negro, the poor little ******." He seemed to think it was funny.'

after all no one would ever do that to an innocent man now would they?

No.

I would say that the US is closer to a Theocracy, these days. :rolleyes:

out of curiostiy, what does Connecticut and NY not having Diebolds have to do with anything?

You made it seem like the whole country was being engineered by Diebold.

And it isn't exactly a thing of pride that the CT voting machines are no longer manufactured and can't be properly repaired when they break because they are so old.

Really! Wow. I wonder how they keep all those cars that are more than 5 years old running? :rolleyes:

But it is our votes (as a whole) that determines the government. Voting for the loser does not mean your vote didn't count.

We have a first past the post system, if your candidate loses in your constituency your vote is binned.


Anything where your government is elected by you, the people. So, most Constitutional Monarchies (including Great Britain) count, as the Head of Government is elected, even if the Head of State may not be.
Technically I think it's still the monarch's perogative. If she doesn't like a party she can refuse permission for it to form a government.


Yes, the democratically-elected "regime" has imprisoned a couple hundred terrorists who pose a grave danger to the security of our country. How the hell can you go from that to "all innocents"? Furthermore, they are not tortured due to the protesting of the pinko commies, not that they shouldn't be.

Innocent until proven guilty?

I live in the UK, possibly the least democratic democracy on the planet. Let's explore that, shall we?

1) Our Head of State is entirely unelected. Not a huge problem in the eyes of pretty much everyone, but still, it's unelected and has huge amounts of power (Royal Perogatives) that she/he could use ay her/his discretion.

2) The dominance of the Executive. The executive, being the Cabinet and other ministerial officials is huge, and entirely drawn from Parliament, which has very little power over it, and is pretty much a rubber stamp for the ruling party. No checks or balances, even ones ususally used within the parliamentary system.

3) Poor representation. A Party can recieve just over 35% of the vote and yet win a majority in Parliament. 35% of the vote should equal 35% of seats, period. Elections should be about more than winning a few dozen key marginals.

4) Our 'federal' system. Our de facto federal system is completely mad. I'm going to whine like a middle-Englander, but what's good enough for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should be good enough for England, no? I mean, Labour Scottish MPs decided I'll have to pay thousands in top-up fees for uni knowning full well that they won't have to. It's maddening.

5) House of Lords. Seats should be won, not bought.

Rant over.

for this reason the Uk is not a democracy.

Begoner21;11688307']Yes, the democratically-elected "regime" has imprisoned a couple hundred terrorists who pose a grave danger to the security of our country. How the hell can you go from that to "all innocents"? Furthermore, they are not tortured due to the protesting of the pinko commies, not that they shouldn't be.

I mean, when I went to France last year, I was the French regime imprisoning a robber, but it later turned out he was innocent. That does not (yet) mean that the regime imprisons and tortures ALL innocents, but it's hardly a glowing checkmark in the "it's all OK" box.

See? It's ridiculous.

How do you know that the couple hundred people imprisoned are 'terrorists'? There have been no charges pressed, no trials, no hearings, no access to representation for almost any of them.

Those that have thus far been released have complained of being people that were 'in the wrong place, at the wrong time'.

I'm under the impression that the US 'justice' system is supposed to work on two principles. One - that the system is fair and impartial... and two, that the protagonist is innocent until proven guilty.

Neither of those standards is being applied.

As to torture allegations... we know 'torture' has been taking place. The regime has admitted to it. If they are throwing their hands up and saying 'but we are being good NOW', that cuts little slack, as far as I'm concerned.

Illegal detentions? Where? Last time I checked, the Court had ruled that Gitmo couldn't detain people indefinately, that's all.

The current President was elected twice. You might have had a point after the 2000 election, but right now you sound like the a small whiney child that keeps wanting "do-overs". :rolleyes:


I'm not asking for a do-over. The first election was a sham, and there SHOULD have been a thorough process to determine an uncontested result, even if it meant taking everyone back to the polls... but that is not the course I'm asking for - I'm just saying a bad election result equals an illegitimate government.

I don't recall saying anything about the second election. You sound like the whiney little child that is trying to point the finger somewhere else for blame that lays closer to home.



Um, what innocents? Show me these alleged citizens it has tortured.

Turn off the pundits and think for yourselves, people.


How ironic.

Well technically us Brits don't elect our head of government. The party member of the political party with the most mps elected to the house of commons does.

Incorrect: the reigning monarch invites someone to form a government, they do not neccessarilly need to be from the party holding the most seats.

Do I live in a democracy? No.

What do I live in? A federal republic.

I'm not asking for a do-over. The first election was a sham, and there SHOULD have been a thorough process to determine an uncontested result, even if it meant taking everyone back to the polls... but that is not the course I'm asking for - I'm just saying a bad election result equals an illegitimate government.

You're sounding like Rosie O'Donnell. Recount until you get the result you want. Look, I'm not overly pleased about who is in the White House, but he's been there for 6 years now. You may as well kvetch about Rutherford B. Hayes at this point.

I don't recall saying anything about the second election. You sound like the whiney little child that is trying to point the finger somewhere else for blame that lays closer to home.

You didn't. I was pointing out that because OF the second election, it's kind of hard to keep saying it is an illegitimate government.

How ironic.

As you see unfit to actually say something about this, I see I've made my point. Thanks! BTW, there was nothing ironic about my statement.

I would say that the US is closer to a Theocracy, these days. :rolleyes:

Ah yes. Because we've elected clergy into the Federal Government everywhere, have chosen a state religion and banned all kinds of things, right? :rolleyes:

silly pro-communist. you don't see that communism is not that.
I'm not pro-communist, but traditionally communists support trade unions, not oppose them. Though I don't consider the Eastern Bloc governments to be really communist.

And what's the big difference? Belarus and China are formally democratic as well
No they're not, they're one-party states.

I would say that the US is closer to a Theocracy, these days. :rolleyes:
In fairness, your laws on things that the Christian right hates are still more liberal than most other countries.

No they're not, they're one-party states.

Officially they are- I think that's what he meant.

Officially, Belarus is a Republic and China is a People's Republic. In their terms, they're 'democratic'. Its all in a name.

Does a corporate oligarchy masquerading as a federal republic count?

United States or Australia?

*snort*

mmm wesa live in democracy

Officially they are- I think that's what he meant.

Officially, Belarus is a Republic and China is a People's Republic. In their terms, they're 'democratic'. Its all in a name.
But they aren't generally recognised as such. It's a joke to claim that Britain is on the same level as Belarus in terms of democratic freedom.

Incorrect: the reigning monarch invites someone to form a government, they do not neccessarilly need to be from the party holding the most seats.

Meh, a power the reigning monarch would never use, the result would be a constitutional crisis that would cripple the government of the country and probably bring down the monarchy.

we have our elections here in the USA. However, here in Florida we just had our primary elections that resulted in 20% voter turn out. I wonder how the real election in November turns out it its the same as the primaries we're in trouble. It's kind of saddening. But I feel the American People are sickened by the Politics of every party. I feel the American People are fed up and don't feel that our elected leaders are truly representing the People. It seems to the majority of the People that special interests, big corporations, and the minority groups are cared for more than the majority. Now that is a shame.

Meh, a power the reigning monarch would never use, the result would be a constitutional crisis that would cripple the government of the country and probably bring down the monarchy.

No, imagine if you will that an extremist party somehow managed to get 30% of seats, whereas the next largest party got 25%, the next party 20% and minor parties the other 25%. If it was the case that the extremist party would likely find itself opposed in every motion by a unified front of the other parties, then it would be the monarch's duty to select a head of government who wouldn't face such an impasse, and so would in fact be bound not to select the extremist party, but rather one of the others.

Does a constitutional monarchy count?
More than 90% of the democratic countries in the world.

Meh, a power the reigning monarch would never use, the result would be a constitutional crisis that would cripple the government of the country and probably bring down the monarchy.

The Monarch using her personal powers isn't a worry. It's the fact that the Prime Minister has unlimited access to them.

we have our elections here in the USA. However, here in Florida we just had our primary elections that resulted in 20% voter turn out. I wonder how the real election in November turns out it its the same as the primaries we're in trouble. It's kind of saddening. But I feel the American People are sickened by the Politics of every party. I feel the American People are fed up and don't feel that our elected leaders are truly representing the People. It seems to the majority of the People that special interests, big corporations, and the minority groups are cared for more than the majority. Now that is a shame.

Well, here's a few ideas that might possibly help American democracy.

- Banning partisan gerrymandering. In republic, you choose congressman. In Soviet America, Congressman chooses YOU! (You get the point). Makes it easier to get rid of shitty legislators.

- Proportional Representation. You get 34% of the vote, you get 40% of the seats. Fair enough, and helps ensure a majority takes minority interests into account, and makes parties more responsible for their actions in the Legislature.

- Bye Bye Electoral College. Elect the President by a runoff system (like in Louisiana) or an instant runoff. Then a President would have to have the mandate of more than 50% of the electorate, give third parties a chance, and mean candidates have to appeal to more than swing states.

heh. i live in what amounts to one of the more democratic nations in the world, i guess. New Zealand used to have a 'first past the post' system.. amounted to an elected dictatorship.

now, we use a mixed member propotional system, mostly the same as that used in germany, only adapted for a few weird quirks of how our country works.

it's ... helped. .... we now have what ammounts to an elected oligarchy instead. heheh. the system is still bias against New partys, so the only way to realy get in is by way of one of the two or three major partys that already exist, but the partys split off fragments which recombine into new partys and so on a lot. almost every election sees a new fusion of minor partys or split of midsized ones. mostly containing the same major players, though the 'minions' change often enough.

sadly, the electorate still has the old FPP mentality, which is screwing the balance in what would otherwise be a ... reasonable system.

also, the governer general [monarch's representative... basicly IS the monarch when the queen herself is not here (read, next best thing to all the time)] doesn't make use of his/her powers to keep some of the greater stupiditys in check, even when there is massive public outcry [happens occasionaly]. and while the monarch probbily has less powers [at least according to the paperwork] in new zealand than in most other constitutional monarchys in which they have any, they do still have some fairly key ones. laws are made and so on in parliment, with no input from the monarch... but at the end of the day, the proposal does not become Law unless the monarch aproves it. they have final veto rights, basicly.

in essance, between elections, the politicians can do what they like with impunity, and are almost never held responsible for their mistakes in running the nation beyond not getting elected the next time. and, without fail, their opponants will screw up eventually, and, hey ho! they're back!

oy... sorry, i ramble.

anyway, my point is, even the most democratic nation is not truthfully in any real way democratic.

democracy, communisem, and anarchy all only work properly at a level no larger than a small village, at which point they are all but indistinguishable from one another.

i had a point when i started. guess that's what i get for writing while tired.

No, I live in a state secretly controlled by the New World Order.

I live in a country that is ruled in London and has no real say in who controls it.

Where is that?

Anything where your government is elected by you, the people. So, most Constitutional Monarchies (including Great Britain) count, as the Head of Government is elected, even if the Head of State may not be.

*grumbles due to misuse of term*

OOC: My 600th post!

Where is that?

Norn Irn, I would say at a guess.

*grumbles due to misuse of term*

OOC: My 600th post!

w00t!

Where is that?

Possibly something to do with Northern Ireland/Scotland/Welsh independence.