NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps as soon as I turn 18, I'm 17 right now. My recruiter said who would drive me to DEP and try not to let my parents find out, as they would be against it. I personally don't think it's immoral, because by now I'm old enough to make decisions for myself even if they go against my parents wishes. I think he's simply empowering me.

By the way, DEP stands for the Delayed Entry Program, which is basically a bunch of guys that want to join the Marines who meet together 3 times a week to do workouts, but we're drilled by real Marines.

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps as soon as I turn 18, I'm 17 right now. My recruiter said who would drive me to DEP and try not to let my parents find out, as they would be against it. I personally don't think it's immoral, because by now I'm old enough to make decisions for myself even if they go against my parents wishes. I think he's simply empowering me.

By the way, DEP stands for the Delayed Entry Program, which is basically a bunch of guys that want to join the Marines who meet together 3 times a week to do workouts, but we're drilled by real Marines.

Immoral? I dunno. You might want to clue your folks in on it before you actually enlist, though.

Immoral? I dunno. You might want to clue your folks in on it before you actually enlist, though.

Yeah, I definetely will.

unethical perhaps. Not to mention, you still legally can't do anything without parental consent, and if you were to get injured, its his balls in the vice.

Well I hope Bechtel and the Christian Coalition will at least reimburse your family for the tombstone.

Huh... since when does the Army go "don't tell your parents"? I thought only child molesters did that.

Shouldn't the recruiter help with the homefront situation?

Huh... since when does the Army go "don't tell your parents"? I thought only child molesters did that.

Shouldn't the recruiter help with the homefront situation?

Marine Corps, not Army. Huge difference there. He actually offered to speak with my parents, but I told him that would be a rather bad idea.

Marine Corps, not Army. Huge difference there. He actually offered to speak with my parents, but I told him that would be a rather bad idea.

Out of pure curiosity, what do you think your parents would say?

Do you think they *may* have foundation in not wanting you to join the military..?

I'm uncertain if it's legally justified...after all, you are still a minor, even if the law sucks on the matters of age.

Yes. He's just trying to obtain more cannon fodder. It's completely immoral.

I'm uncertain if it's legally justified...after all, you are still a minor, even if the law sucks on the matters of age.

If it's legal for him to sign up for the DEP by himself, it's certainly legal for the Marine to drive him to wherever without parental consent.

Marine Corps, not Army. Huge difference there. He actually offered to speak with my parents, but I told him that would be a rather bad idea.

Precisely, The Marines are tough, Good Luck R.T.C. and Semper Fi.

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps as soon as I turn 18, I'm 17 right now. My recruiter said who would drive me to DEP and try not to let my parents find out, as they would be against it. I personally don't think it's immoral, because by now I'm old enough to make decisions for myself even if they go against my parents wishes. I think he's simply empowering me.

By the way, DEP stands for the Delayed Entry Program, which is basically a bunch of guys that want to join the Marines who meet together 3 times a week to do workouts, but we're drilled by real Marines.


Yes, it is unethical to lie to your parents. But it also seems like your parents are not supportive of your choice to enlist, while this other person is. That's not surprising, as that is his job.

Immoral? I dunno. You might want to clue your folks in on it before you actually enlist, though.

Why? I didn't tell my parents. He's an adult, and it's not a secret what the Marine Corps (or Army Infantry) is all about.

Precisely, The Marines are tough, Good Luck R.T.C. and Semper Fi.

:rolleyes: Nice name skipper. ;)

Why? I didn't tell my parents. He's an adult, and it's not a secret what the Marine Corps (or Army Infantry) is all about.

The reason its a good idea to tell his parents is the same reason why its a good idea to tell one's wife that he is going to become a volunteer firefighter or a police officer. Guess what? Your choices dont just effect you - they effect your loved ones and they should be informed of the choices you wish to make.

We don't know he's lying to his parents. He just hasn't mentioned he's joining the Marines.

I don't see anything wrong with the recruiter's behaviour. He wants you to enlist. As soon as you're 18, you're legally allowed to enlist without parental consent. No worries.

recruiter for the u.s. military

doesn't the question answer itself?

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps as soon as I turn 18, I'm 17 right now. My recruiter said who would drive me to DEP and try not to let my parents find out, as they would be against it. I personally don't think it's immoral, because by now I'm old enough to make decisions for myself even if they go against my parents wishes. I think he's simply empowering me.

By the way, DEP stands for the Delayed Entry Program, which is basically a bunch of guys that want to join the Marines who meet together 3 times a week to do workouts, but we're drilled by real Marines.

Well dude, I'm the same age as you are, (17 turning 18) so I think I kind of know how you feel - "I'm an adult, can make my own decisions and can do what I want." And you're kind of right, your parents can't really stop you. But for god's sake, put yourself in your Mum and Dads shoes' for a second. How would you honestly feel if you were getting some groceries and bumped into a friend who said "You should be well chuffed of little Johnny, I dodn't know he's in the DEP."

At least from what I can see, being an adult isn't just about making decisions, anyone can do that. It's about knowing how they'll effect others, and any good parent will be damn well effected by that.

It's not immoral, it's more unreasonable and slightly dishonest. Tell them about it, why you want to do it and prove you can make that decision yourself. If you can prove you're ready and able to do it, it shouldn't be a problem.

We don't know he's lying to his parents. He just hasn't mentioned he's joining the Marines.

I don't see anything wrong with the recruiter's behaviour. He wants you to enlist. As soon as you're 18, you're legally allowed to enlist without parental consent. No worries.

the issue is, he is not 18 yet. Big worries with liability, among other issues.

recruiter for the u.s. military

doesn't the question answer itself?
I think the implication is "beyond the baseline required to do the job." Sort of like if you ask if a politician is crooked.

Yes. He's just trying to obtain more cannon fodder. It's completely immoral.

Yes. Enlisting to help your country and aiding the Iraqis in trying to rebuild their nation and live in peace and security is completely immoral. You should be proud of what you're signing up to do -- pay no mind to liberal slander of our armed forces.

the issue is, he is not 18 yet. Big worries with liability, among other issues.
As long as the Marine doesn't take him across state lines he should be fine.

As long as the Marine doesn't take him across state lines he should be fine.

and as long as he doesn't get injured.

Yes. That's highly immoral.

It's unethical. It's not empowering to teach you to sneak around like a weasel behind your parents' back because you lack the conviction to face up to them and if necessary forgo the 'pre-training' that they have every right to forbid your participation in. The recruiter's actions are abhorrent, whilst your's suggest immaturity.

I think the implication is "beyond the baseline required to do the job." Sort of like if you ask if a politician is crooked.

ah, 'more immoral than can reasonably be expected'

hmm, sounds to me like that would change my answer to the question then.

Begoner21;11685926']If it's legal for him to sign up for the DEP by himself, it's certainly legal for the Marine to drive him to wherever without parental consent.
I wouldnt be entirely certain that it is lawful to drive a minor somewhere when you have good reason to believe that doing so is against the wish of the legal guardians of the minor.
More to the point, in this case we have an adult colluding with a minor to circumvent the legal authority of the minor's guardians, in a context where there is a prospect of the adult profiting (in the legal sense) from the ursurption of parental authority. I'd expect that at the very least this could constitute an Act of 'corrupting the morals of a minor'.

Before I give real advice, I want to know the rest of the story. Why wouldn't you want your parents to know? I have a son, and I wouldn't advise him to join up, but if that's what he wants to do, I'll stand tall behind him. Why do you not believe in your parents? What have you done that they don't trust you and you don't trust them? Where do your parents think you are during this lost time? Why don't they ask, and if they do, do you tell the truth?

There is a difference between illegal and immoral. I don't know about illegal. I would assume that until you are 18 it might be. Why don't you wait until you are 18 so there is no question? Does the recruiter think you might back out? Does he have reason to believe this?

From what I know from what you have said, I would without question say, immoral. At 17 not telling your parents about ANYTHING important in your life is immoral. Remember the old saying: "The TRUTH, the whole TRUTH, and nothing but the TRUTH". Without a doubt, you are not telling the "whole truth". Just because you might say "I'm going out for four hours". That may be the truth but it certainly isn't the whole truth, so therefore is a type of lie and therefore is immoral.

Morally, it is not your place - or anyone else's - to wonder about the recruiter's moral obligations. That's his business. Your business is to wonder if YOUR behaviour is moral or not.

Ethically, your recruiter is in a gray area, as he probably takes you at your word, and thinks of it as your responsability to deal with your parents.

Morally, though, something this big is a lie of omission. Then again, what is a bigger moral problem, a lie of omission, or the arguement you telling your parents would cause, and the thing you would do if they forbade you to go, and you went anyway. If you are choosing between not telling them and telling them but then disobeying them, I think you are better off staying quiet, morally, until you can find a way to ensure you won't defy them after you tell them - some way to convince them this is what you feel you need to do. I would sugget speaking to the recruiter about speaking to them. He has likely done this before, and having a non-family member presant when they learn your plans will likely keep the situation from getting out of hand with emotion.

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps as soon as I turn 18, I'm 17 right now. My recruiter said who would drive me to DEP and try not to let my parents find out, as they would be against it. I personally don't think it's immoral, because by now I'm old enough to make decisions for myself even if they go against my parents wishes. I think he's simply empowering me.

By the way, DEP stands for the Delayed Entry Program, which is basically a bunch of guys that want to join the Marines who meet together 3 times a week to do workouts, but we're drilled by real Marines.
Two words : Crap idea.

If your parents are going to be against it, you seriously need to think about if it's going to be a good idea.

Because flying off to Iraq and quite possibly killing people without your parents behind you, supporting you, will lead to the kind of schism in the family make-up that will affect you for a long time.

In a kind of :
"Dad, I need a bit of money as a deposit for my mortage, can you help?"
"I'm not funding killers and people who betray the trust of their family"
kind of fashion.

Keep in mind that the repercussions of your choice are going to live with you right up until either your, or your parents' deaths.

Independence is great, going against your parents just so that you can go off and be brave and shoot people is not.

Your parents are going to have your best interests at heart, if they disagree with this choice, they're going to have a good reason for it - they should respect the fact that you want to make your own choices, but I strongly suggest thinking again about your future and your relationship to your family before you make this decision.

Your recruiter isn't "empowering you", he's preying on the fact that you want to make your own choices, and that you're too naïve to think of the long-term consequences of your actions - he's using your desire to break off from your parents to try and lead you to make stupid choices for the sake of bravado - and that's not really in order.

I wouldnt be entirely certain that it is lawful to drive a minor somewhere when you have good reason to believe that doing so is against the wish of the legal guardians of the minor.
More to the point, in this case we have an adult colluding with a minor to circumvent the legal authority of the minor's guardians, in a context where there is a prospect of the adult profiting (in the legal sense) from the ursurption of parental authority. I'd expect that at the very least this could constitute an Act of 'corrupting the morals of a minor'.


Very doubtful. The adult is acting on behalf of the United States which is immune to any lawsuit which it wishes to ignore. The federal courts wont even hint at the armed forces being fiscally liable for any and all misdeeds and faux pas being committed by armed forces representatives in recruiting. If something horrible and intentional happened a federal court might entertain a single case. They will absolutely not entertain miniscule trespasses with no criminal intent.

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps as soon as I turn 18, I'm 17 right now. My recruiter said who would drive me to DEP and try not to let my parents find out, as they would be against it. I personally don't think it's immoral, because by now I'm old enough to make decisions for myself even if they go against my parents wishes. I think he's simply empowering me.

By the way, DEP stands for the Delayed Entry Program, which is basically a bunch of guys that want to join the Marines who meet together 3 times a week to do workouts, but we're drilled by real Marines.The immorality of that depends entirely on your stance on informing parents of abortions or buying Plan B.

Navy recruiters, at least, have no problem lying about ANYTHING as long as they get you to sign up. Then it's too late.

The way I see it, recruiters are little more than telemarketers with a uniform.

Yes, it is unethical to lie to your parents. But it also seems like your parents are not supportive of your choice to enlist, while this other person is. That's not surprising, as that is his job.

Why SHOULD his parents be supportive?

There are plenty of activities I would not support my kid doing legal or not while still supporting my child as a whole.

At least from what I can see, being an adult isn't just about making decisions, anyone can do that. It's about knowing how they'll effect others, and any good parent will be damn well effected by that.

Indeed. And adults also have to accept the consequences of their decisions. If that means pissing off your parents, then so be it.

Seriously, if this kid is too much of a coward to tell his parents what he's up to, then he is too much of a coward to be a marine. I thought marines were all about honesty, responsibility, trust, courage, etc. This kid isn't displaying any of those traits. He needs to grow up before he joins any branch of the armed forces.

Here's the deal, I'm in the US Military. Please don't hate me I'm not your standard gungho moron who believes everything I'm told, which is why I'm getting out. I was in the DEP program too, for a whole year. You still need to sign paperwork to enter this program and if you're underage your parents need to sign as well, mine did. As to the whole recruiters lieing, well that's a fact of life, how else are they gonna meet their quota (and there is a quota, which if they don't meet they'll be sent back to deployable battalions or sea going commands.) It's not just navy or marines it's all of them. Make sure you know what you're doing, have a job guaranteed, and talk to other people than just that recruiter. Know what you're getting yourself into.

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps as soon as I turn 18, I'm 17 right now. My recruiter said who would drive me to DEP and try not to let my parents find out, as they would be against it. I personally don't think it's immoral, because by now I'm old enough to make decisions for myself even if they go against my parents wishes. I think he's simply empowering me.

By the way, DEP stands for the Delayed Entry Program, which is basically a bunch of guys that want to join the Marines who meet together 3 times a week to do workouts, but we're drilled by real Marines.

First, your biggest mistake is in joining the USMC. You should join the USAF. Or maybe I'm just biased...

You're leaving out a lot of information. Are your parents against the military? You should probably tell them of the many benefits we recieve for our service. All we hear on the news is the negatives of whats going on. You might not even be shipped out to OEF or OIF at all.

Asking an online forum about this, especially one like this, wasn't a very good idea. You need to make the decision for yourself. It's going to determine the rest of your life.
I would like to see you enlist, but choose whatever you think is best. No one can tell you what you can and can't do.
If you do join any branch of the military (don't leave out the others), I wish you the best.

Why SHOULD his parents be supportive?

There are plenty of activities I would not support my kid doing legal or not while still supporting my child as a whole.
True. I can imagine some parents would feel the same way about their children joining the forces as I would if my kid came home and declared he was a Keynesian.

Very doubtful. The adult is acting on behalf of the United States which is immune to any lawsuit which it wishes to ignore.
I dont know if it would be legally found that he was acting in his capacity as an agent of the US. Whether he is or not, what matters legally is whether it can be proved he were.

The federal courts wont even hint at the armed forces being fiscally liable for any and all misdeeds and faux pas being committed by armed forces representatives in recruiting.
The two matters are seperate issues. The absence of any civil liability on the part of armed forces does not negate the possibility of criminal liability attaching to its agents, most especially if it cant be demonstrated that he was acting in his capacity as an agent of the armed forces.

If something horrible and intentional happened a federal court might entertain a single case. They will absolutely not entertain miniscule trespasses with no criminal intent.
If it were politically expediant for persons of appropriate influence, and if as I suspect 'corrupting the morals of a minor' is applicable, then to court it would go. Were it to go to court, and were it not to be proven that the recruiter was acting in their capacity as an agent of the armed forces, then I fail to see why criminal intent wouldnt be assumed, nor how it could be negated.

Do I think it is likely that the recruiter will face legal sanction? No, what I am stating is my off-hand opinion (ie having not consulted the applicable law) that the recruiters actions could be construed as a criminal act. I make no case for the likliehood of a prosecution (my opinion on that is highly unlikely but not implausable).

First, your biggest mistake is in joining the USMC. You should join the USAF. Or maybe I'm just biased...You are, flyboy. Everyone knows Army is the only way :D

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps as soon as I turn 18, I'm 17 right now. My recruiter said who would drive me to DEP and try not to let my parents find out, as they would be against it. I personally don't think it's immoral, because by now I'm old enough to make decisions for myself even if they go against my parents wishes. I think he's simply empowering me.

By the way, DEP stands for the Delayed Entry Program, which is basically a bunch of guys that want to join the Marines who meet together 3 times a week to do workouts, but we're drilled by real Marines.

Casbah, know what you're getting into.

The US Marine Corps is one of the best branches of the US armed forces to be in, you'll enjoy camradarie and friendships that will last you a lifetime. You'll accomplish things that MANY in your age-group, (and lifetime!) will never, ever accomplish. It's both an honor and a privledge to be a US Marine, you'll hold a bond with other fellow Marines that can never be broken.

You'll know the meaning of the words `Devildog', (alternately and originally "Teufelshund"), you'll probably get a Globe and Anchor tattoo, (or other Tattoo that represents the USMC.) Don't be shy or afraid, it's a badge of honor to be able to wear it.

You should know that you will honestly, (and this sounds like a commercial, but it's TRUE) be one of the "few" and "proud".

This being said, you ALSO need to know the truth:

The boot camp is one of the hardest things you'll ever have to do IN YOUR LIFE, (minus live combat of course, however we're getting to that.) Many do not make it. YOU may not make it.

Life will be HARD! You will see where the USAF lives in royal quarters, the Army, (less royal than the AF but still good) and the Navy will ALWAYS live better than you, (except for your corpsman.) Speaking of the Corpsman, love him, protect him, let no one speak ill of him outside of your platoon. He's the guy that's gonna save your asses when the shit hits the fan.

Anyway, just know that the USMC lives and dies in the dirt and living is 1/3 sleeping so you're gonna be sleeping in the dirt, friend.

You will always be a rifleman first, no matter what your job is or what anyone tells you.

You will most likely go to Iraq and it WILL BE HARD. (I was there from `04 to `05.) You WILL be in combat and it WILL NOT be like the movies.

Memorize your Marine and US Navy ranks before going to basic. Talk to other Marines before doing it.

I hope if you decide to go through with it, you'll stay positive and make it, but I hope that you also check out the other branches as well.

Oh, and tell your parents. They probably love you and deserve to know.

LMAO

you can tell by reading some of the comments on here of people who just listen to the "news" about the millitary and people who are in some way connected within the millitary.

about the op: my opinion is that you should let your family know. they may not like it at first but its a whole lot better then you comming home one day and saying "see you later, im off to boot"

its your life, once you are 18 you can go with whatever path you wish to go with. just remember the millitary life is not for everyone. Your recruiter is going to glamorize your job a bit. but overall it is just a couple years out of your life and if you decide to get out you can leave but you will still have one hell of an experience.

I think he's simply empowering me.

No, he's enabling you, which isn't at all the same thing. That being said - knock yourself out, kiddo. Go for it.

LMAO

you can tell by reading some of the comments on here of people who just listen to the "news" about the millitary and people who are in some way connected within the millitary.


God-forbid anyone who is actually enlisted in the US Armed Forces post on this board..

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps as soon as I turn 18, I'm 17 right now. My recruiter said who would drive me to DEP and try not to let my parents find out, as they would be against it. I personally don't think it's immoral, because by now I'm old enough to make decisions for myself even if they go against my parents wishes. I think he's simply empowering me.

By the way, DEP stands for the Delayed Entry Program, which is basically a bunch of guys that want to join the Marines who meet together 3 times a week to do workouts, but we're drilled by real Marines.

I find it no more objectionable then me hanging out at the high school and telling 17 year olds to call me after their birthday if they wanna be in a movie.

Or a doctor not telling the folks about their 17 year old daughter's abortion. (Or gastric bypass, for that matter.)

Most things we allow people to do at 18 a significant portion of the population is mature enough to decide about long before they reach the magic day of adulthood.

God-forbid anyone who is actually enlisted in the US Armed Forces post on this board..Indeed. We, who can't serve because we have "diseases", or because our father serves, and we can't serve because of that, we hail you!

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps as soon as I turn 18, I'm 17 right now. My recruiter said who would drive me to DEP and try not to let my parents find out, as they would be against it. I personally don't think it's immoral, because by now I'm old enough to make decisions for myself even if they go against my parents wishes. I think he's simply empowering me.

By the way, DEP stands for the Delayed Entry Program, which is basically a bunch of guys that want to join the Marines who meet together 3 times a week to do workouts, but we're drilled by real Marines.

Don't bother unless your parents know. He wouldn't drive you to DEP though, he would be driving you MEP's, which is a medical screening before you enlist. Once you're there they will reject you unless you have your parents consent, and you will have done all the MEP's stuff without the benefit. Trust me, when I went to MEP's I watched a kid who only had consent from one of his parents get rejected. If they don't have parental consent you will be rejected. Trust me, I went through this program a month ago, and it's pretty fresh in my memory, and am currently in the DEP program for the Marines, waiting for my recruiter to tell me my ship date.

The DEP program is more than just the Marines, all branches have it. I'm sure your recruiter will let you go to the DEP meetings, though.

For the record, how often you meet depends on where you are. My DEP program only meets once a week, which honestly I never attend as I'm working until I ship to bootcamp. My recruiter knows I work out on my own so he isn't to worried about me.

Ah, fresh meat for the Grinder! :D

You should also become a bit more informed than just what the recruiter is telling you. Find outside sources about the Marine Corps, and other branches.

Mousistan has pretty much pegged the Marine Corps, when cross examined next to all of my sources (a family line of Marines, former Marines, and many active duty Marines I've known) Your actions, are not living up to the Marine standard of life, honour, courage, and commitment. Your actions are not honorable, and they are definatly not courageous. Perhaps reevaluating your decision is a good idea, because once that DI finds a shitbird, the shitbird squeals and breaks down.

Don't bother unless your parents know. He wouldn't drive you to DEP though, he would be driving you MEP's, which is a medical screening before you enlist. Once you're there they will reject you unless you have your parents consent, and you will have done all the MEP's stuff without the benefit. Trust me, when I went to MEP's I watched a kid who only had consent from one of his parents get rejected. If they don't have parental consent you will be rejected. Trust me, I went through this program a month ago, and it's pretty fresh in my memory, and am currently in the DEP program for the Marines, waiting for my recruiter to tell me my ship date.

The DEP program is more than just the Marines, all branches have it. I'm sure your recruiter will let you go to the DEP meetings, though.

For the record, how often you meet depends on where you are. My DEP program only meets once a week, which honestly I never attend as I'm working until I ship to bootcamp. My recruiter knows I work out on my own so he isn't to worried about me.

If you're 18, you don't need your parents' consent.

If you're 18, you don't need your parents' consent.

Yes, but thats the issue, he isn't 18

Yes, but thats the issue, he isn't 18

He doesn't have long to wait.

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps as soon as I turn 18, I'm 17 right now. My recruiter said who would drive me to DEP and try not to let my parents find out, as they would be against it. I personally don't think it's immoral, because by now I'm old enough to make decisions for myself even if they go against my parents wishes. I think he's simply empowering me.

By the way, DEP stands for the Delayed Entry Program, which is basically a bunch of guys that want to join the Marines who meet together 3 times a week to do workouts, but we're drilled by real Marines.

First, you cannot enlist without your parent’s permission until you are 18. He might take you to DEP, but you will not be sworn in, take your physical, etc. until you are 18.

Your recruiter is not immoral, but he isn't very honest and you should let him know that that type of dishonesty isn't up to Marine Corps standards.

As someone who spent over 26 years in the military, here is my advice:
1. Tell your parents that you are thinking of joining, you would like to go to the DEP meetings, there is no obligation, and the recruiter has offered to take you.
2. If your parents are hesitant, ask the recruiter if your dad can attend one of the DEP meetings with you.
3. If your parents are hell bent ageist your attending the DEP, wait until you have graduated from High School, are 18 years old, and join. Once you get your date for basic training, tell you parents you are going.

Marine Corps, not Army. Huge difference there. He actually offered to speak with my parents, but I told him that would be a rather bad idea.

Then you told him wrong and you are the one who is being dishonest. You want to be a Marine, but do not want to face up to your parents? Are you sure you are the type of person the Marines want?

He doesn't have long to wait.

Still doesn't change the fact that they will reject him, and he will have to wait for his recruiter to pick him up. Besides, MEP's is an all day deal. You spend the night before in a hotel, they start prodding you at 0500. You make it back home the next day.

Regardless of how long he has to wait, the recruiters at MEP's are an entirely different game, they don't care if it's a day, you need your parents consent, they just don't want the legal issues.

The reason its a good idea to tell his parents is the same reason why its a good idea to tell one's wife that he is going to become a volunteer firefighter or a police officer. Guess what? Your choices dont just effect you - they effect your loved ones and they should be informed of the choices you wish to make.

Yes. Your are absolutely correct. They have a right to know even if you think they might not agree with your decision. You may be surprised. My parents consented to my joining the Navy Reserves Submarine Division 1-8 when I was 17. Then I got smart at 18 and joined the Air Force. (Navy Reserves had to discharge me to go active duty Air Force)

I think the implication is "beyond the baseline required to do the job." Sort of like if you ask if a politician is crooked.

Take two asprin, go to bed, and call me in the morning if you are not feeling better. :rolleyes: On-line office visit = 1 box of cookies. :fluffle:

I wouldnt be entirely certain that it is lawful to drive a minor somewhere when you have good reason to believe that doing so is against the wish of the legal guardians of the minor.
More to the point, in this case we have an adult colluding with a minor to circumvent the legal authority of the minor's guardians, in a context where there is a prospect of the adult profiting (in the legal sense) from the ursurption of parental authority. I'd expect that at the very least this could constitute an Act of 'corrupting the morals of a minor'.

Umm! The adult (recruiter) did offer to talk to the parents. :rolleyes:

Two words : Crap idea.

If your parents are going to be against it, you seriously need to think about if it's going to be a good idea.

Are you saying his parents have the right to make the choice for him as to what career he will pursue? He has no right to decide for himself what he wants to do for a living. Have your parents chosen your career for you? Do they have the right to do so?

His whole story does not add up. He couldn't be in a DEP group w/o going to MEPS and he couldn't have gone to MEPS as a 17y/o w/o parental concent. The only possible answer is that he is just going to DEP unofficially which i do find unethical.

Navy recruiters, at least, have no problem lying about ANYTHING as long as they get you to sign up. Then it's too late.

The way I see it, recruiters are little more than telemarketers with a uniform.

Please tell us how your Navy recruiter lied to you. Don't make a blanket statement without backing it up. What did he/she do to you that was so terrible? When you enlist in the military, you sign a contract, and if they don't live up to that contract you can get out. If your recruiter told you something and it wasn't in your contract, shame on you for not reading it before signing, and shame on him/her for misleading poor you.

His whole story does not add up. He couldn't be in a DEP group w/o going to MEPS and he couldn't have gone to MEPS as a 17y/o w/o parental concent. The only possible answer is that he is just going to DEP unofficially which i do find unethical.

I just kinda figured he never discerned the difference between MEP's and the DEP

Are you saying his parents have the right to make the choice for him as to what career he will pursue? He has no right to decide for himself what he wants to do for a living. Have your parents chosen your career for you? Do they have the right to do so?

That Is a good point, Your parents might ask why do you want to do this? are you gonna listen to them and get the job they wanted you to do?
Everyone can make there own decision on what job they want. It's not up to your parents to choose what job you want. My parents wanted me to be a pilot. Why should I be a pilot? I don't care about what the pay is. If the job I want has been my dream job, then I should get that job.

First, your biggest mistake is in joining the USMC. You should join the USAF. Or maybe I'm just biased...

You are biased. :p I didn't like the idea of sleeping in the mud either. Had enough of that as a Boy Scout. :D Then I joined the Navy Reserve and didn't like the idea of spending six months at sea underwater in a submarine. So, I got smart and spent 26 years in the Air Force.

You are, flyboy. Everyone knows Army is the only way :D

Everyone knows that a hot meal in the chow hall is better than K rations or an MRE. Sleeping in a barracks is also preferable to sleeping in a tent or the mud. :D
GO AIR FOECE

You are biased. :p I didn't like the idea of sleeping in the mud either. Had enough of that as a Boy Scout. :D Then I joined the Navy Reserve and didn't like the idea of spending six months at sea underwater in a submarine. So, I got smart and spent 26 years in the Air Force.Get enough of sleeping in the mud through boy scouting? How is that possible? :D

God-forbid anyone who is actually enlisted in the US Armed Forces post on this board..

You are no longer on my Christmas car list. :p

You are no longer on my Christmas car list. :p

Can I have a christmas car?

Before I give real advice, I want to know the rest of the story. Why wouldn't you want your parents to know? I have a son, and I wouldn't advise him to join up, but if that's what he wants to do, I'll stand tall behind him. Why do you not believe in your parents? What have you done that they don't trust you and you don't trust them? Where do your parents think you are during this lost time? Why don't they ask, and if they do, do you tell the truth?

There is a difference between illegal and immoral. I don't know about illegal. I would assume that until you are 18 it might be. Why don't you wait until you are 18 so there is no question? Does the recruiter think you might back out? Does he have reason to believe this?

From what I know from what you have said, I would without question say, immoral. At 17 not telling your parents about ANYTHING important in your life is immoral. Remember the old saying: "The TRUTH, the whole TRUTH, and nothing but the TRUTH". Without a doubt, you are not telling the "whole truth". Just because you might say "I'm going out for four hours". That may be the truth but it certainly isn't the whole truth, so therefore is a type of lie and therefore is immoral.

A lot of questions here, but I'm more than happy to answer them. My dad was in Afghanistan in the Soviet Army, and I guess that kind of screwed him up, so my family turned against the military because of that. I once told my mom I'm joining the Navy, and she berated me, saying that I want to be some kind of hero, like all men my age. If that was her reaction to the Navy, imagine what her reaction to the Marine Corps would be.

First thing I'm going to do when I'm 18 is take a drive to the recruiter's office, and enlist, so it doesn't matter what my parents think, but then I'll miss out on a lot of physical fitness and DEP meetings, which are actually the best parts of my week.

I understand I'm not telling my parents the truth, but I just don't see any other way. Day before I'm shipping out, I'll tell them what I'm really up to, though. In the meantime, I'll keep telling them I'm joining the Navy because "it's safe" even though I don't have the slightest intention of joining the Navy.

Thanks for contributing.

preferable to sleeping in a tent or the mud. :D


Preferable to sleeping in the mud? LG is going to object.

My dad was in Afghanistan in the Soviet Army, and I guess that kind of screwed him up...
You may want to listen to him on this at that rate. Getting sent to Afghanistan is a strong possibility. What would that do to your parents?

That Is a good point, Your parents might ask why do you want to do this? are you gonna listen to them and get the job they wanted you to do?
Everyone can make there own decision on what job they want. It's not up to your parents to choose what job you want. My parents wanted me to be a pilot. Why should I be a pilot? I don't care about what the pay is. If the job I want has been my dream job, then I should get that job.

I'm glad you didn't become a pilot. They starve before the get the qualifications to fly for the airlines. Then they make a lot of money working for the airlines unless they are laid off. If they make it to retirement, they starve when the airlines goes bankrupt and turns the pension fund over to the federal government. How sad. Only way to make it as a pilot is in the military for 20 years, and then you are to old for the airlines. Pilots can't win. No, I'm not a pilot, just spent a hell of a lot of time in the aviation industry.

Two words : Crap idea.

If your parents are going to be against it, you seriously need to think about if it's going to be a good idea.

Because flying off to Iraq and quite possibly killing people without your parents behind you, supporting you, will lead to the kind of schism in the family make-up that will affect you for a long time.

In a kind of :
"Dad, I need a bit of money as a deposit for my mortage, can you help?"
"I'm not funding killers and people who betray the trust of their family"
kind of fashion.

Keep in mind that the repercussions of your choice are going to live with you right up until either your, or your parents' deaths.

Independence is great, going against your parents just so that you can go off and be brave and shoot people is not.

Your parents are going to have your best interests at heart, if they disagree with this choice, they're going to have a good reason for it - they should respect the fact that you want to make your own choices, but I strongly suggest thinking again about your future and your relationship to your family before you make this decision.

Your recruiter isn't "empowering you", he's preying on the fact that you want to make your own choices, and that you're too naïve to think of the long-term consequences of your actions - he's using your desire to break off from your parents to try and lead you to make stupid choices for the sake of bravado - and that's not really in order.

You make some good points, but I think you're overestimating my parents' reaction. They would be worried about me, not contemptious of me, I don't think it would lead to a huge schism in my family like you described.

Get enough of sleeping in the mud through boy scouting? How is that possible? :D

Lot's of camping trips when it rains. :(

You make some good points, but I think you're overestimating my parents' reaction. They would be worried about me, not contemptious of me, I don't think it would lead to a huge schism in my family like you described.

If thats the case, you really do need to tell them. If you can't work up the courage to tell them, you are gonna be nothing but a shitbird.

Can I have a christmas car?

mmmumble typos Yes you can.

mmmumble typos Yes you can.

WOOOT! I get a car!!!!!!! Do I get my choice?

First, your biggest mistake is in joining the USMC. You should join the USAF. Or maybe I'm just biased...

You're leaving out a lot of information. Are your parents against the military? You should probably tell them of the many benefits we recieve for our service. All we hear on the news is the negatives of whats going on. You might not even be shipped out to OEF or OIF at all.

Asking an online forum about this, especially one like this, wasn't a very good idea. You need to make the decision for yourself. It's going to determine the rest of your life.
I would like to see you enlist, but choose whatever you think is best. No one can tell you what you can and can't do.
If you do join any branch of the military (don't leave out the others), I wish you the best.

Naw, you're just biased. Yeah, my parents are hell-bent on me going to college. I don't think the benefits would really convince them, as I come from a well-to-do family. They would support me.

At least from what I can see, being an adult isn't just about making decisions, anyone can do that. It's about knowing how they'll effect others, and any good parent will be damn well effected by that.

Exactly, if you are going to prove yourself old enough to make a decision, at least be an adult about it and inform those who care about you.

WOOOT! I get a car!!!!!!! Do I get my choice?

No. This is the one I always give to people for Christmas along with a box of cookies. http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/ert/activitybook/pg02-car.gif :fluffle:

No. This is the one I always give to people for Christmas along with a box of cookies. http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/ert/activitybook/pg02-car.gif :fluffle:

Sweet, thats just the one I wanted.

Sweet, thats just the one I wanted.

:D :fluffle:

Casbah, know what you're getting into.

The US Marine Corps is one of the best branches of the US armed forces to be in, you'll enjoy camradarie and friendships that will last you a lifetime. You'll accomplish things that MANY in your age-group, (and lifetime!) will never, ever accomplish. It's both an honor and a privledge to be a US Marine, you'll hold a bond with other fellow Marines that can never be broken.

You'll know the meaning of the words `Devildog', (alternately and originally "Teufelshund"), you'll probably get a Globe and Anchor tattoo, (or other Tattoo that represents the USMC.) Don't be shy or afraid, it's a badge of honor to be able to wear it.

You should know that you will honestly, (and this sounds like a commercial, but it's TRUE) be one of the "few" and "proud".

This being said, you ALSO need to know the truth:

The boot camp is one of the hardest things you'll ever have to do IN YOUR LIFE, (minus live combat of course, however we're getting to that.) Many do not make it. YOU may not make it.

Life will be HARD! You will see where the USAF lives in royal quarters, the Army, (less royal than the AF but still good) and the Navy will ALWAYS live better than you, (except for your corpsman.) Speaking of the Corpsman, love him, protect him, let no one speak ill of him outside of your platoon. He's the guy that's gonna save your asses when the shit hits the fan.

Anyway, just know that the USMC lives and dies in the dirt and living is 1/3 sleeping so you're gonna be sleeping in the dirt, friend.

You will always be a rifleman first, no matter what your job is or what anyone tells you.

You will most likely go to Iraq and it WILL BE HARD. (I was there from `04 to `05.) You WILL be in combat and it WILL NOT be like the movies.

Memorize your Marine and US Navy ranks before going to basic. Talk to other Marines before doing it.

I hope if you decide to go through with it, you'll stay positive and make it, but I hope that you also check out the other branches as well.

Oh, and tell your parents. They probably love you and deserve to know.

Thanks for telling me that. I've seen Saving Private Ryan, Platoon, and Full Metal Jacket. The combat in those movies wasn't exactly glamourous, so I don't harbor any illusions.

That being said, everything you told me here made me even more eager to join the Marines. The harder it is, the more I will feel like I accomplished something, and the more I can be proud of.

And of course, I will tell my parents, and soon. I do feel like a coward, like that guy said before.

[QUOTE=RockTheCasbah;11687292]That being said, everything you told me here made me even more eager to join the Marines. The harder it is, the more I will feel like I accomplished something, and the more I can be proud of./QUOTE]

And about the second or third day of basic you will be saying, "GOD WTF am I doing here?" But, you will get over it and feel imense pride on graduation day. I wish you the best.

You know that if your parents are hellbent on you going to college why don't you? Do nrotc someplace, become an officer while at the same time alleive your fathers fears of you going to combat b/c in 4 years were not going to be in iraq.

I retired after twenty years in the Marines and Marine Reserves. The fellow above me gave you the best advice. Go to college. Even if you just get some college, it makes a lot of career fields easier to get into. Best bet is to finish and get commissioned. No offence to any enlisted Marines is intended, because they make the Corps run, but life is much better when you're a "O". Or is that "0"?

Anyhow, go Marine Air and Semper Fi.

You are biased. :p I didn't like the idea of sleeping in the mud either. Had enough of that as a Boy Scout. :D Then I joined the Navy Reserve and didn't like the idea of spending six months at sea underwater in a submarine. So, I got smart and spent 26 years in the Air Force.
Obviously a good choice, Sarge.

Everyone knows that a hot meal in the chow hall is better than K rations or an MRE. Sleeping in a barracks is also preferable to sleeping in a tent or the mud. :D
GO AIR FOECE
Barracks? Chow hall? You mean the dorms and the dining facility/Burger King?
:D

You are no longer on my Christmas car list. :p
:( But I really wanted that Christmas car...

A lot of questions here, but I'm more than happy to answer them. My dad was in Afghanistan in the Soviet Army, and I guess that kind of screwed him up, so my family turned against the military because of that. I once told my mom I'm joining the Navy, and she berated me, saying that I want to be some kind of hero, like all men my age. If that was her reaction to the Navy, imagine what her reaction to the Marine Corps would be.

First thing I'm going to do when I'm 18 is take a drive to the recruiter's office, and enlist, so it doesn't matter what my parents think, but then I'll miss out on a lot of physical fitness and DEP meetings, which are actually the best parts of my week.

I understand I'm not telling my parents the truth, but I just don't see any other way. Day before I'm shipping out, I'll tell them what I'm really up to, though. In the meantime, I'll keep telling them I'm joining the Navy because "it's safe" even though I don't have the slightest intention of joining the Navy.

Thanks for contributing.
Good luck on your decision, I hope everything works out for you. You can still work out now; do a lot of proper push ups, sit ups, and run (not walk) 3 miles everyday.
I'm sorry about your father's experiance, but it's a far cry from today. Things have changed a bit.

[QUOTE=RockTheCasbah;11687292]That being said, everything you told me here made me even more eager to join the Marines. The harder it is, the more I will feel like I accomplished something, and the more I can be proud of./QUOTE]


And about the second or third day of basic you will be saying, "GOD WTF am I doing here?" But, you will get over it and feel imense pride on graduation day. I wish you the best.
2nd week for me. Just stick with it (not like you have much of a choice :D ) and you'll make it through. The thought of seeing my girlfriend again was my primary motivation, among others.

Again, best of luck to you.

Obviously a good choice, Sarge.


Barracks? Chow hall? You mean the dorms and the dining facility/Burger King?
:D


:( But I really wanted that Christmas car...

Well hell, I retired in 1988 and still called it the chow hall. It was the only place to get good SOS. :p

Oh, and will this car do? http://www.highland-wedding-car.co.uk/Brodie%20P1jpg.jpg If not, I think I can find a used 1962 VW bug. :D

Well hell, I retired in 1988 and still called it the chow hall. It was the only place to get good SOS. :p

Oh, and will this car do? http://www.highland-wedding-car.co.uk/Brodie%20P1jpg.jpg If not, I think I can find a used 1962 VW bug. :D

I usually just call it the Don't-eat-there-if-you-want-to-live Hall.
You retired a couple years after I was born :p (I'm good at making people feel their age, for some reason)


I love that car, does it come with a chauffer named James?

Lot's of camping trips when it rains. :(I see. That's where you've been getting it wrong. You need to go when it snows. :D

Oh yeah, its very immoral, and very illegal. Your recruiter would get fucked if the law found out. I'm in the army myself, and I absolutley hate the way recruiting is done.

I see. That's where you've been getting it wrong. You need to go when it snows. :D

My dad told me he had nothing but a sheet of plastic for a cover and his boots for a pillow. You'd think he was in the US Marine Boy Scouts Corps. :rolleyes:
I got to 'Cub' and didn't really get into BSA, but I don't think they're bad or anything.

Everyone knows that a hot meal in the chow hall is better than K rations or an MRE. Sleeping in a barracks is also preferable to sleeping in a tent or the mud. :D
GO AIR FO*RCE

How is that any fun?!?! thats just the same as school!!!!!:confused:

How is that any fun?!?! thats just the same as school!!!!!:confused:

Except you get paid, cool camoflague (and in my case, sexy flight suits), and lots of free education!

Except you get paid, cool camoflague (and in my case, sexy flight suits), and lots of free education!

Personaly it was more worth my while to suck it up and go to work to pay for my education

Go figure someone can manage two Bachelors and two masters without a single cent in debt and without having to sign up for the military and no parental help

Amazing what you can do when you try

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps as soon as I turn 18, I'm 17 right now. My recruiter said who would drive me to DEP and try not to let my parents find out, as they would be against it. I personally don't think it's immoral, because by now I'm old enough to make decisions for myself even if they go against my parents wishes. I think he's simply empowering me.

By the way, DEP stands for the Delayed Entry Program, which is basically a bunch of guys that want to join the Marines who meet together 3 times a week to do workouts, but we're drilled by real Marines.

You decided to enlist and he's doing what you want him to do - not tell your parents. It's your decision and if you regret it later, only one person to blame.

Immoral isn't the issue here. Legality is. As someone who joined DEP at 17, I know that you have to get parental signatures. Even with a recruiter who badly wanted me(got 85 ASVAB on his practice test, and a 98 at the actual one at MEPS), and who knew my parents were against it, he made sure I got those signatures(and also signed a paper saying that I could leave before bootcamp. My parent's wouldn't budge on that, which wasn't a big deal, because thats standard procedure anyways).

If you're 17, your parent's have to sign the papers saying they allow you to join up. You and the recruiter could be in trouble if your parent's found out.

Well hell, I retired in 1988 and still called it the chow hall. It was the only place to get good SOS. :p

Oh, and will this car do? http://www.highland-wedding-car.co.uk/Brodie%20P1jpg.jpg If not, I think I can find a used 1962 VW bug. :D

Dunno how they were in your day, but I absolutely loved the MRE's I've had. Even cold, they were really, really good. I liked the chow hall too, but I almost prefered the MRE's, with the exception of anything decent to drink(I avoided the "shake mixes" like the plague)

MREs are still good. I've got one right here for lunch later. "Menu no. 5 Chicken Breast"

Personaly it was more worth my while to suck it up and go to work to pay for my education

Go figure someone can manage two Bachelors and two masters without a single cent in debt and without having to sign up for the military and no parental help

Amazing what you can do when you try

Oh, that's nice and all too, but I like to have a little jump start with having a steady paycheck, valuable learning experiance, discipline, and application experiance, as well as the words "Fomer USAF" on my resume. Not to mention the satisfaction of serving my country. Plus my instructors actually WANT me to learn, rather than having a professor who doesn't give a hoot (I know this isn't always the case, but professors who actually work to see every single student pass arn't exactly dime a dozen).
And we're not automatically awarded and degrees, we still have to take the courses, but my job training counts as college credits after I take some tests.
I'm sorry, but the military outweighs going to college.

MREs are still good. I've got one right here for lunch later. "Menu no. 5 Chicken Breast"



Oh, that's nice and all too, but I like to have a little jump start with having a steady paycheck, valuable learning experiance, discipline, and application experiance, as well as the words "Fomer USAF" on my resume. Not to mention the satisfaction of serving my country. Plus my instructors actually WANT me to learn, rather than having a professor who doesn't give a hoot (I know this isn't always the case, but professors who actually work to see every single student pass arn't exactly dime a dozen).
And we're not automatically awarded and degrees, we still have to take the courses, but my job training counts as college credits after I take some tests.
I'm sorry, but the military outweighs going to college.

Whether the military is good for you, is completely dependant on each person.

The military can be better, if you either have a lot of inherent intelligence(Get a high ASVAB score, go into intelligence, make nice money and looks great on a resume, without having to take lots of classes and doing HW to qualify for), or if you aren't that intelligent, per-se, but you are athletic and have the courage to go into battle. Both easy ways to make a decent living and set up your future, for people who might not do so well in a college situation, or at least not immediatly.

For middle of the road people, and keep in mind this is all my humble opinion, college is better if you can manage to reasonably afford it before the military. You can get done sooner, and have four to six years advantage in climbing the corporate ladder over your like minded, similarly aged friend, who joined the military.

Military also has that whole death thing. That can suck.

You have a very valid point, but you're leaving out the fact that you can do both. Not to metion a poor knowledge of how education works in the miliary,but I'm not going to get into that. You're right, it does depend a lot on the person. Almost anyone can go to college, but only a select few can join the military.


Death isn't limited to the military. Ask the Canadians.

Thanks for telling me that. I've seen Saving Private Ryan, Platoon, and Full Metal Jacket. The combat in those movies wasn't exactly glamourous, so I don't harbor any illusions.

That being said, everything you told me here made me even more eager to join the Marines. The harder it is, the more I will feel like I accomplished something, and the more I can be proud of.

And of course, I will tell my parents, and soon. I do feel like a coward, like that guy said before.

No worries, and it sounds like you've got the right mind-set to go through it. You're right that the harder it is, the more accomplishment and proud you'll feel.

About feeling like a coward - Here's a neat trick to remember; the ONLY person who can make you feel like a coward is YOU. Nobody else. The only person who can hurt you is YOU. Nobody else has, (or should have) that sort of power over you. You alone make the decision to let what someone else has written or said about you affect you. You have the option and the choice to ignore it or let it go.

It's perfectly normal to feel trepidation before telling your parents. I felt the same way prior to joing up (and initially they were against it) however I was much older and didn't require their signature, and eventually they understood that it was my choice to make. I turned out the better for it and they see it now.

Again, about the combat - One good place to start would be to talk to your father about it, if he sees how dedicated you are, he'll hopefully be honest about what it's like. (I plan on being the same way with my future kids, if they're looking to join then I'll be completely honest about my experiences. Hopefully it will make them seriously weigh the decision. Seeing death up close and personal is not a picnic.)

Good luck and OORAH!

You have a very valid point, but you're leaving out the fact that you can do both. Not to metion a poor knowledge of how education works in the miliary,but I'm not going to get into that. You're right, it does depend a lot on the person. Almost anyone can go to college, but only a select few can join the military.


Death isn't limited to the military. Ask the Canadians.


I'm not leaving out the fact that you can do both. I even mentioned it. However, as I said, the guy who does college then jumps into the buisness world will have a 4-6 year jump on his friend who goes military, than college.

I don't know how select that few really is. It requires minimal fitness(at 5'10, I weighed 200 pounds, mostly fat, and still got accepted). It requires minimal knowledge(I'm amazed some people cant get the 35-45 on the asvab to get an eleven bravo position. However, the vast majority of people I know could get that much.). It required a high school diploma, or GED. It was about as easy as getting my theatre job, really. Just a bit longer, and with normal sight and vision exams as well.

Getting into the military isn't much of a problem. The effort one puts into getting good enough grades, etc, to get into a college, is about the same effort one would need to put to study and exercise to get into the military. Its all a matter of joining, and not flunking out while in boot camp. And the fact that most people don't want to join the military.

Oh yeah, its very immoral, and very illegal. Your recruiter would get fucked if the law found out. I'm in the army myself, and I absolutley hate the way recruiting is done.
It's really more like a sales pitch than recruiting.

Wow, it reminds me of Jehovah's Witnesses, almost...

As a 17-year-old, I've had to deal with some recruiters. Luckily, I have a whole arsenal of things I can use to get out of it. As a last resort, I would just start coming on to the recruiter :)

Umm! The adult (recruiter) did offer to talk to the parents. :rolleyes:
Not materially relevent to the facts in the context of any legal liability, unless the OP is an inaccurate portrayal.
In essence the recruiter says "let me talk to your parents" and is told not to because the parents will react badly. Any reasonable person can be reasonably expected to conclude from this that the minor's parents do not consent - in other words in the context of the minor's response to this offer, the recruiter's consequent behaviour in aiding the minor to attend constitutes the willful encouragement and abetting of the minor's deception and disobediance. Once again, I reiterate that I have not done any checking on possibly applicable law, but I would be surprised if 'corrupting the morals of a minor' were not applicable to the case facts presented in the OP.

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps as soon as I turn 18, I'm 17 right now. My recruiter said who would drive me to DEP and try not to let my parents find out, as they would be against it. I personally don't think it's immoral, because by now I'm old enough to make decisions for myself even if they go against my parents wishes. I think he's simply empowering me.

By the way, DEP stands for the Delayed Entry Program, which is basically a bunch of guys that want to join the Marines who meet together 3 times a week to do workouts, but we're drilled by real Marines.


I think hes taking advantage of a young man who wants to show his independance, by joining the Marines.
I think youre joining for the wrong reasons.

By the way...did you notice theres a war going on?

His whole story does not add up. He couldn't be in a DEP group w/o going to MEPS and he couldn't have gone to MEPS as a 17y/o w/o parental concent. The only possible answer is that he is just going to DEP unofficially which i do find unethical.

Yeah, that's the situation. Thanks for clarifying.

You may want to listen to him on this at that rate. Getting sent to Afghanistan is a strong possibility. What would that do to your parents?

That would make them apprehensive. It would be like deja vu.

You know that if your parents are hellbent on you going to college why don't you? Do nrotc someplace, become an officer while at the same time alleive your fathers fears of you going to combat b/c in 4 years were not going to be in iraq.

I'm not up to the whole college thing right now. I feel burnt out, and I want to get out and do something with my life. Right now.

I think hes taking advantage of a young man who wants to show his independance, by joining the Marines.
I think youre joining for the wrong reasons.

By the way...did you notice theres a war going on?

You're mistaken. I'm doing it for reasons like patriotism and physical fitness, not to prove anything to my parents. I couldn't care less what they think.

Everyone knows that a hot meal in the chow hall is better than K rations or an MRE.
Aye, anyone who's served in the armed forces that I know usually said that to them, MRE stood for "Meals Rejected by Everyone".

You're mistaken. I'm doing it for reasons like patriotism and physical fitness, not to prove anything to my parents. I couldn't care less what they think.
How is it patriotic to go to another country to help its puppet government act as it wishes?

An actual patriot would become a doctor, or a policeman, or a firefighter, something which actually helps your own country.

Killing people very far away isn't patriotic in the slightest.

And physical fitness - ffs just go to the gym a bit more often, and if you get really into it, then go and enter some competitions...

In the future, by the way, when you can think a bit more clearly, you're going to really regret the day that you turned away from your parents, they're your greatest support base in the world, and if you scorn them now, you may never get helped by them as much as you would wish.

Think before you act, for crying out loud.

How is it patriotic to go to another country to help its puppet government act as it wishes?

An actual patriot would become a doctor, or a policeman, or a firefighter, something which actually helps your own country.

Killing people very far away isn't patriotic in the slightest.

And physical fitness - ffs just go to the gym a bit more often, and if you get really into it, then go and enter some competitions...

In the future, by the way, when you can think a bit more clearly, you're going to really regret the day that you turned away from your parents, they're your greatest support base in the world, and if you scorn them now, you may never get helped by them as much as you would wish.

Think before you act, for crying out loud.

The people who I would be killing in Iraq are the type of people that are desperate to kill Americans. They're terrorists. Fighting terrorists is like fighting mosquitos. You can swat 10 or 20, but they'll still keep coming. Hell, you could even put bugspray on yourself, but that will eventually wear off too. Only way to stop it is to drain the swamp, deny the mosquitos their base. That's what the military is doing in the mid east, draining the terrorist swamp.

So now I hope you can see why I consider it patriotic.

The people who I would be killing in Iraq are the type of people that are desperate to kill Americans. They're terrorists. Fighting terrorists is like fighting mosquitos. You can swat 10 or 20, but they'll still keep coming. Hell, you could even put bugspray on yourself, but that will eventually wear off too. Only way to stop it is to drain the swamp, deny the mosquitos their base. That's what the military is doing in the mid east, draining the terrorist swamp.

So now I hope you can see why I consider it patriotic.
Well, you certainly sound like a 17 year old, complete with simplistic and inaccurate world view.

How is it patriotic to go to another country to help its puppet government act as it wishes?

An actual patriot would become a doctor, or a policeman, or a firefighter, something which actually helps your own country.

Killing people very far away isn't patriotic in the slightest.

And physical fitness - ffs just go to the gym a bit more often, and if you get really into it, then go and enter some competitions...

In the future, by the way, when you can think a bit more clearly, you're going to really regret the day that you turned away from your parents, they're your greatest support base in the world, and if you scorn them now, you may never get helped by them as much as you would wish.

Think before you act, for crying out loud.
Ok, let's get rid of the US Military, if they don't help the nation in one bit.

Why am I not surprised at the people who object to your joining of the military are also trying to tell you what to do with your life?


The people who I would be killing in Iraq are the type of people that are desperate to kill Americans. They're terrorists. Fighting terrorists is like fighting mosquitos. You can swat 10 or 20, but they'll still keep coming. Hell, you could even put bugspray on yourself, but that will eventually wear off too. Only way to stop it is to drain the swamp, deny the mosquitos their base. That's what the military is doing in the mid east, draining the terrorist swamp.

So now I hope you can see why I consider it patriotic.


That's a future Marine in the making, right there :cool: Good luck, buddy.

That's a future Marine in the making, right there :cool: Good luck, buddy.

Thanks. I appreciate the support. ;)

Well, you certainly sound like a 17 year old, complete with simplistic and inaccurate world view.

Well then, do tell me where I'm wrong, Mr. Omnicient College Professor.

Well then, do tell me where I'm wrong, Mr. Omnicient College Professor.

not to infringe on nazz's turf, but

The people who I would be killing in Iraq are the type of people that are desperate to kill Americans.

and

That's what the military is doing in the mid east, draining the terrorist swamp.

not to infringe on nazz's turf, but



and

And your point is...?

And your point is...?

they are both factually untrue statements

not to infringe on nazz's turfNot to worry--you were a lot more succinct than I probably would have been, what with my "omniscient college professor" tone and all. :p

they are both factually untrue statements

So do you deny that they are killing Americans right now, or that if they came here, they would kill American civilians?

Afghanistan is no longer controlled by the Taliban. There's one swamp drained right there. Next question.

So do you deny that they are killing Americans right now, or that if they came here, they would kill American civilians? They're killing Americans right now because American soldiers are there occupying their country. And no, they wouldn't follow us over here--they'd be too busy trying to get control of their own country.

Afghanistan is no longer controlled by the Taliban. There's one swamp drained right there. Next question.
Right (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/09/08/afghanistan.blast/index.html). That swamp is so totally drained. :rolleyes:

Try keeping up with world news, junior.

So do you deny that they are killing Americans right now, or that if they came here, they would kill American civilians? Nope, just that they can come here.

Afghanistan is no longer controlled by the Taliban. There's one swamp drained right there. Next question.Lol! My goodness, good thing one of us doesn't believe the liberal lies about the Taliban resurging. :rolleyes:

They're killing Americans right now because American soldiers are there occupying their country. And no, they wouldn't follow us over here--they'd be too busy trying to get control of their own country.


Right (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/09/08/afghanistan.blast/index.html). That swamp is so totally drained. :rolleyes:

Try keeping up with world news, junior.

I never said they would follow us, I just said they're really bad people who would kill Americans, even ultra-liberal ones like you, if they got the chance.

I know that story. The Taliban doesn't control Afghanistan anymore, that's what matters. Afghanistan isn't a terrorist state.

i love the smell of delusion in the morning

I never said they would follow us, I just said they're really bad people who would kill Americans, even ultra-liberal ones like you, if they got the chance.

I know that story. The Taliban doesn't control Afghanistan anymore, that's what matters. Afghanistan isn't a terrorist state.

But because of poorly planned American interference, no meaningful democracy will occur in Afghanistan without continued American occupation for decades to come.

i love the smell of delusion in the morning

By "delusion" do you mean Bush-hating because he's -gasp- a Christian?

If so, you reek of it.

"Right. That swamp is so totally drained.

Try keeping up with world news, junior."

Well smartass, afghanistan isn't controlled by the taliban anymore, that's a fact so why don't you keep up with the news.
Terrorist attacks in that region prove only that there are still terrorists there, but not that they control the place :rolleyes:

"Right. That swamp is so totally drained.

Try keeping up with world news, junior."

Well smartass, afghanistan isn't controlled by the taliban anymore, that's a fact so why don't you keep up with the news.
Terrorist attacks in that region prove only that there are still terrorists there, but not that they control the place :rolleyes:

Child, please. The Taliban controls practically all of Afghanistan outside Kabul, and northern Pakistan as well--the area called Waziristan for those who have been paying attention. Pakistan just pulled their forces out of there and released shitloads of al Qaeda and Taliban prisoners. Aryavartha has assloads of links showing just that.

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps as soon as I turn 18, I'm 17 right now. My recruiter said who would drive me to DEP and try not to let my parents find out, as they would be against it. I personally don't think it's immoral, because by now I'm old enough to make decisions for myself even if they go against my parents wishes. I think he's simply empowering me.

By the way, DEP stands for the Delayed Entry Program, which is basically a bunch of guys that want to join the Marines who meet together 3 times a week to do workouts, but we're drilled by real Marines.

You should tell your parents before you do anything as your are still not an adult. If they don't want you to go, then talk to them about it, if they still don't want you to, then fuck em (not literally). But yeah it doesn't matter if he's immoral or not.

By the way, marines is incredibly tough to get in, I think you have to run a mile and a half under 9 min or something like that. But good luck, and stand strong.

Child, please. The Taliban controls practically all of Afghanistan outside Kabul, and northern Pakistan as well--the area called Waziristan for those who have been paying attention. Pakistan just pulled their forces out of there and released shitloads of al Qaeda and Taliban prisoners. Aryavartha has assloads of links showing just that.

Well look at that, looks like someone here read one article on some liberal blog and thinks he knows everything.
As I said before, there are terrorist attacks, there are insurgents but they do not have much control.
Saying that afghanistan is controled by them is simply not true.

Well look at that, looks like someone here read one article on some liberal blog and thinks he knows everything.
As I said before, there are terrorist attacks, there are insurgents but they do not have much control.
Saying that afghanistan is controled by them is simply not true.Bullshit. Why is the SecGen of NATO demanding more troops and saying that the Taliban are capable of massing and operating in much larger force than before?
And if I recall correctly, the original quote was "Swamp has been dried out", which is simply not true (unless you take it literally, since Afghanistan is a rather dry place).

I feel if a person is responsible enough to fight for his country with loaded weapons, he should be responsible enough to be straight forward with his parents. It's a sign of maturity. I don't know if I want people who are immature to be representative of my country.

Naw, you're just biased. Yeah, my parents are hell-bent on me going to college. I don't think the benefits would really convince them, as I come from a well-to-do family. They would support me.

A little off subject, but, as a former college instructor---if you don't want to go to college--Don't Go. You are wasting everyone's time and money. Even if you just go out and get a job for a while until you are ready. Having taught back at the end of Vietnam, I can guarantee that if you live through any of the armed services you will be a much better student and will make the classes better for all of the students and certainly the instructor. There is nothing worse than a college class with only 18 year olds. And nothing better than a class with enough older students that can ask questions and set the bar higher for everyone to reach.

Print this off and take it to your parents. Or have them call any college instructor and they will back you up on this.

By the way, marines is incredibly tough to get in, I think you have to run a mile and a half under 9 min or something like that. But good luck, and stand strong.

No, that is untrue. That would be a perfect score on the run portion of the Initial Fitness Test. You must run 1.5 miles in less than 13 minutes, do 35 situps in two minutes, and 2 deadhang pullups.

For the P(hysical)FT, in order to score a perfect score on that portion you need to run three miles in under 18 minutes, although you must be under 28. Although it changes depending on how old you are. You must do 20 pullups, although no less than 3. One hundered situps, but no less than fifty.

A little off subject, but, as a former college instructor---if you don't want to go to college--Don't Go. You are wasting everyone's time and money. Even if you just go out and get a job for a while until you are ready. Having taught back at the end of Vietnam, I can guarantee that if you live through any of the armed services you will be a much better student and will make the classes better for all of the students and certainly the instructor. There is nothing worse than a college class with only 18 year olds. And nothing better than a class with enough older students that can ask questions and set the bar higher for everyone to reach.

Print this off and take it to your parents. Or have them call any college instructor and they will back you up on this.

Seconded. Though personally, I think a job and trying to make it on your own (without help from parents) will mature you faster than a stint in the military will. But if you're not ready for the demands college will make on you, by all means, don't waste the space someone else might be able to make use of.

Seconded. Though personally, I think a job and trying to make it on your own (without help from parents) will mature you faster than a stint in the military will. But if you're not ready for the demands college will make on you, by all means, don't waste the space someone else might be able to make use of.
I've seen lot's of people on both sides of the spectrum, and each and every one of the ones who have been in the military have always been far more mature than those who haven't. Not only have they been more mature, they have had far more interesting life stories.

Except you get paid, cool camoflague (and in my case, sexy flight suits), and lots of free education!
Would you rather get shot down and a possible chance of exploding. Or get shot in both arms on the ground where there's medics? There will always be ups and downs depending on how good which branch of military there is.

I'm joining the United States Marine Corps as soon as I turn 18, I'm 17 right now. My recruiter said who would drive me to DEP and try not to let my parents find out, as they would be against it. I personally don't think it's immoral, because by now I'm old enough to make decisions for myself even if they go against my parents wishes. I think he's simply empowering me.

By the way, DEP stands for the Delayed Entry Program, which is basically a bunch of guys that want to join the Marines who meet together 3 times a week to do workouts, but we're drilled by real Marines.

Follow your own bliss and if your parents don't like it, TOUGH! It's your life and if you want to join the Marines, then do so.

Besides you might get lucky like my cousin (his in the Air Force) who got stationed in Japan.

You should tell your parents before you do anything as your are still not an adult. If they don't want you to go, then talk to them about it, if they still don't want you to, then fuck em (not literally). But yeah it doesn't matter if he's immoral or not.

By the way, marines is incredibly tough to get in, I think you have to run a mile and a half under 9 min or something like that. But good luck, and stand strong.

It's 3 miles in 26 minutes, 5 pull-ups, and 50 crunches in 2 minutes. Those are the minimum standards, and I meet all of them. I guess all those workouts really paid off.

It's 3 miles in 26 minutes, 5 pull-ups, and 50 crunches in 2 minutes. Those are the minimum standards, and I meet all of them. I guess all those workouts really paid off.

I guess so. Our erm - loss - will be the army's gain.




























































































What're you waiting for, then?

I guess so. Our erm - loss - will be the army's gain.
-snip-
What're you waiting for, then?

First of it's the Marine Corps, there is a difference.

Second off, how many of you people actually took the time to read the whole five sentances of the first post, if you did, you would realize that his problem is that he is not of legal age at this point in time.

It's 3 miles in 26 minutes, 5 pull-ups, and 50 crunches in 2 minutes. Those are the minimum standards, and I meet all of them. I guess all those workouts really paid off.

Just enjoy the 20 mile forced march with 55lbs of kit hanging off your back....
mmm I did it in 4hr 45 mins............. at age 34, at which point I decided I was fit enough to spend 4 weeks at high altitude in the canadian rockies,but thats another story ........


Boris

At 18 I wanted to join the military, but I get sea sick so that was the Navy out,I'm afraid of heights, so thats the air force out and did'nt fancy charging a machine gun nest armed with a stick.... so that was the army out.

Just enjoy the 20 mile forced march with 55lbs of kit hanging off your back....
mmm I did it in 4hr 45 mins............. at age 34, at which point I decided I was fit enough to spend 4 weeks at high altitude in the canadian rockies,but thats another story ........


Boris

At 18 I wanted to join the military, but I get sea sick so that was the Navy out,I'm afraid of heights, so thats the air force out and did'nt fancy charging a machine gun nest armed with a stick.... so that was the army out.

Traditionally, the army is better equipped, but the Marine Corps is trained better.

Please tell us how your Navy recruiter lied to you.

It wasn't to me.

Don't make a blanket statement without backing it up. What did he/she do to you that was so terrible?

...didn't I just say? Lied about more than one thing. I'm not going into details, because it isn't appropriate.

First of it's the Marine Corps, there is a difference.

Second off, how many of you people actually took the time to read the whole five sentances of the first post, if you did, you would realize that his problem is that he is not of legal age at this point in time.

Not only that but he is also being encouraged to stop discussing things with his family … when you turn the magical age of 18 everything does not just “Change” Seems like an asshat thing for the recruiter to be encouraging regardless of if he is below or above the legal age.

It just makes it worse because he is below

First of it's the Marine Corps, there is a difference.
Like I care one way or the other.
Second off, how many of you people actually took the time to read the whole five sentances of the first post, if you did, you would realize that his problem is that he is not of legal age at this point in time.
Well, that's his problem - not mine. And further, see above.

No, he's enabling you, which isn't at all the same thing.
Yes it is.

People call it empowering when they like the cause. People call it enabling when they don't.

Never let people's value-judgements govern your use of language.