NationStates Jolt Archive

After reading numerous posts, I was inspired to write a New Topic. There seems to be a lot of focus on everything bad about America and the current adminstration so after reading all of the negativity I was inspired to write something in hopes of getting positive feed back. Is America really that bad? What is good about having America in todays world?

America is good at making its poor suffer.

silly there is no black and white nations only grey glorious grey!

Well I guess the U.S.A (note: not America) makes a few pounds through trade with them so maybe if we keep them across the Atlantic…

A huge, innovative economy, a great university system, a constant supply of world-changing and technological developments and the home to many of the world's major corporations. Our companies make products that make our lives easier and more comfortable, and they employ millions of people worldwide. Our farms are some of the most productive on earth, and our infrastructure enables goods and services to be shipped efficiently anywhere in the world.

In short, the US is a huge part of the world's economic and technological development and what we do can affect the entire world. In the past few decades, this growth has most definitely been for the better.

We single handedly finalized the Mexican-Canadian border dispute once and for all.

Completely unspecifically, I'd just say that it could be a lot worse. Could be better, but could have turned out much worse than it did. Plus they do help knock out the odd useful invention, internet, things like that.

Our farms are some of the most productive on earth

that’s a good thing? (yes I know Africa is a net importer of food but still if you can criticize the E.U for it America isn’t getting away)

America is good at making its poor suffer.
Suffer? America's poor are some of the richest people in the world. They may be homeless and beg for spare change, but that spare change buys them a better life than the vast majority of humans of earth.

I think America treats its poor very well.

America is also very good at buying Canadian oil. Keep it up, guys.

What good does anybody do? Are humans capable of doing 'good'? What IS good? Are you good? Are you a COMMUNIST?!?

Suffer? America's poor are some of the richest people in the world. They may be homeless and beg for spare change, but that spare change buys them a better life than the vast majority of humans of earth.

I think America treats its poor very well.

but no NHS and America still has poverty and the plague

I think America treats its poor very well.
As a Canadian I would expect your standards to be higher than that.

It gives more aid than any other country. Some see it as good, I don't, but some do. I don't think America does alot of good, and I'm happy with that. Thats not the role of a superpower. It's role should be to be a good place to live which it is, not to DO good.

As a Canadian I would expect your standards to be higher than that.Pfff "a Canadian" la di da! You're just another unlawful enemy combatant to us. We are very good at alienating the rest of the world.

that’s a good thing? (yes I know Africa is a net importer of food but still if you can criticize the E.U for it America isn’t getting away)

Yes, growing food is a good thing. You need food to live.

Oh, just rent a copy of 'Life of Brian' and when the appropriate scene comes on, substitute 'American' for 'Roman'. That doesn't really actually cover it, of course - but it's better than enduring further posts from slugheads like Novemberstan.

Oh, just rent a copy of 'Life of Brian' and when the appropriate scene comes on, substitute 'American' for 'Roman'. That doesn't really actually cover it, of course - but it's better than enduring further posts from slugheads like Novemberstan.

That's quite high praise coming from you.

Awww. That wasn't nice. But we excel in overall hostility too, as Dobbsworld demonstrated.

That's quite high praise coming from you.

What, 'cause I didn't infer you routinely sacrifice toddlers to Baal, or something? C'mon, lighten up.

Awww. That wasn't nice. But we excel in overall hostility too, as Dobbsworld demonstrated.

I'm Canadian. Deal with it.

I'm Canadian. Deal with it.Done.

Awww. That wasn't nice. But we excel in overall hostility too, as Dobbsworld demonstrated.

See, it all depends in what side you are on. If you'e on America's side, you get good things, like money and food. If you make America angry, you get bad things, like bullets and thermonuclear warheads.

America more or less brought about the IT age.

Hope this makes you happy!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv_gDLn_UCg

have fun;) If only that was real, Us americans are very talented and funny!

After reading numerous posts, I was inspired to write a New Topic. There seems to be a lot of focus on everything bad about America and the current adminstration so after reading all of the negativity I was inspired to write something in hopes of getting positive feed back. Is America really that bad? What is good about having America in todays world?

You are obviously a freedom hating terrorist. You also probably enjoy pushing babies into the sunlight so they sneeze.

Kidding, kidding. No need to report me for flaming. Currently America represents a sizable portion of the world's economy, and provide a way for the rest of the world to feel morally superior.

After reading numerous posts, I was inspired to write a New Topic. There seems to be a lot of focus on everything bad about America and the current adminstration so after reading all of the negativity I was inspired to write something in hopes of getting positive feed back. Is America really that bad? What is good about having America in todays world?

What good is America (short for the United States of America) in today's world? It provides a place for many of the above fools to feel so safe and complacent in their lives that they have the luxury to critisize everything about it.

To the fools who want to do nothing but critisize: Try spending some time in countries that really have it bad and then come back to jolt and tell me how bad the US is.

America treats it's poor badly? The average Roma/Gypsy in much of europe would love to have it so bad. Sigh...Get out from behind your pc and experience life, will ya?

America treats it's poor badly? The average Roma/Gypsy in much of europe would love to have it so bad. Sigh...Get out from behind your pc and experience life, will ya?Don't be silly. American poor have it bad. Does it make them feel better if the Roma are doing even worse in some eastern European shithole..?

EDIT: Think for a minute why I said what I said... Maybe I HAVE been spending time off of my PC and seeing things. Do you find it (even remotely) plausible?

How do the American poor have it bad? Specifically.

The poor here are generally treated pretty well. The homeless people I know all get at least 1 meal a day from the homeless mobiles. Although that might just be in Boston.

How do the American poor have it bad? Specifically.
Hurricane Katrina

Hurricane Katrina

Yeah, but that's a one-time disaster; poor people in other areas hit by tornadoes or earthquakes recieve much better treatment than they did in the Katrina fuckup. Of course, barring natural disasters, the poor in the US have it a lot better than poor people in most other countries.

How do the American poor have it bad? Specifically.

Click (http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Third_World_US/SI_Kozol_StLouis.html)

Yeah, but that's a one-time thing; barring natural disasters, they have it a lot better than poor people in most other countries.
This is true, but I would question what that actually reflects upon given the US is the powerhouse that you have noted and yet we still cannot feed and house our own people.

But, that's way off topic because that's what America is BAD at. What it's GOOD at:

Information technologies, space technologies (and exploration) research and devlopment into a wide range of areas from medications, to health, to more academic subjects, to... well... just about anything. We're good at being generous at times (The tsunami comes to mind) and creating art and entertainment (say what you will about Hollywood, people still watch them and listen to the music in droves. 24 is a very popular series on DVD here in Japan). And we're optimistic. For some reason, built into America is the ability and the need to look towards the next best thing, to not stop and recount old glories, but to keep going in search of new ones.

And we invented In-N-Out, which is probably the best thing that has ever been done for this planet, next to inventing American pizza that is. ;)

And we invented In-N-Out, which is probably the best thing that has ever been done for this planet, next to inventing American pizza that is. ;)

Really want to try that.

Pfff "a Canadian" la di da! You're just another unlawful enemy combatant to us.

And you wonder why other countries are not too crazy about Americans? Here's your answer, total idiots who have no regard for the opinion of others.
It leads me to believe that in "America" you can say whatever you want as long as it agrees with everyone else!
Personally, I have nothing against Americans as a person, but as a population I feel that they are very ignorant and judgemental about other countries and how they are run. Before the US government sticks it's nose into the affairs of others, they should try cleaning up their own act!

And we invented In-N-Out, which is probably the best thing that has ever been done for this planet, next to inventing American pizza that is. ;)

And Cincinnati-style chili, which when combined with cheese, hotdog, bun yellow mustard, hot sauce and onions creates the legendary cheese coney. That and Rally's...

God, I can't wait until I move back to Cincinnati so I can get some of those again.

Yeah, but that's a one-time disaster; poor people in other areas hit by tornadoes or earthquakes recieve much better treatment than they did in the Katrina fuckup. Of course, barring natural disasters, the poor in the US have it a lot better than poor people in most other countries.

your goddamn right they do

This thread is stupid. What does France do thats any good? It provides a home for the French People, thats all its supposed to do. Thats all America does.
And Americas poor don't have it as bad as some do.

Go America! YEAH!!!!

We've produced some good bands, some good television, some good movies, and some good food. Fuck all the rest, those are the most important things that a nation can be seriously expected to accomplish.
USians also provide a huge market for all that crap that the rest of the world makes but doesn't neccessarily want to keep.

don't forget our famous sloppy joes. Now thats an American Tradition.
:D

And you wonder why other countries are not too crazy about Americans? Here's your answer, total idiots who have no regard for the opinion of others.
It leads me to believe that in "America" you can say whatever you want as long as it agrees with everyone else!
Personally, I have nothing against Americans as a person, but as a population I feel that they are very ignorant and judgemental about other countries and how they are run. Before the US government sticks it's nose into the affairs of others, they should try cleaning up their own act!

ok let's see here. You are voicing your opinion which you have every right to. Sounds like to me you are doing what you are accusing us Americans as a population. So basically by your quote us Americans should be forbidden from voicing our opinions and you have every right judging our population as ignorant and judgemental about how other countries and how they run. How our government sticks its nose into other affairs...look at France, the UK, for just a couple of examples but rest assured theirs a lot more other countries and foreign policies sticking their noses in other countries affairs. USA isn't the only one.

Personally, I have nothing against Americans as a person, but as a population I feel that they are very ignorant and judgemental about other countries and how they are run. Before the US government sticks it's nose into the affairs of others, they should try cleaning up their own act!

Yes, because we can see that nobody else in the world is judgemental of other countries. Oh, wait...

I think the phrase I'm looking for has something to do with very large rocks and glass houses.

And you wonder why other countries are not too crazy about Americans? Here's your answer, total idiots who have no regard for the opinion of others.
It leads me to believe that in "America" you can say whatever you want as long as it agrees with everyone else!
Personally, I have nothing against Americans as a person, but as a population I feel that they are very ignorant and judgemental about other countries and how they are run. Before the US government sticks it's nose into the affairs of others, they should try cleaning up their own act!

Yet, when America does not do anything everyone feels fine to criticize it for leaving the world alone.

So I propose to you a hypothetical situation. Think of a world where America becomes the isolationist nation that you seem to crave. There will no longer be foreign aid. Where all the jobs it outsources no longer exists. Where it no longer exports food to countries that do not grow enough food to feed their populations. Where so much science and invention came from in the past, there comes nothing. Think hard before you say that the world would love to see America disappear.

Do Americans have a slight superiority complex? I'm sure that many do. I personally think they rightfully deserve it. They are the last superpower in the world. They conquered some of the most powerful nations in the world. I for one know when the Americans came and saved our country from being overan by the Nazis. Of course, I'm from a distant past and most people nowadays forget their history.

I'm just trying to say that, yes, Americans do cause problems with their attemps to tell the rest of the world how to run, but they make up for it just by how much good they do for the rest of the world.

Now, this old man will step down from his soapbox and goodnight to you all!

And we invented In-N-Out, which is probably the best thing that has ever been done for this planet, next to inventing American pizza that is. ;)

Personally I would put In-N-Out above American Pizza. It is amazing and I love the strange pink secret sauce :)

America isn't such a bad place. We get a rap because the things people want to report are more often going to be the bad things rather than the good things. We give money to third world countries, we take in refugees from said nations, our economy is tied to the world economy, and we do manage to church out a few really really really smart people every now and again.

I have to agree with a previous poster, however, that the vast majority of US Citizens have not had the chance to "get out and see the world" and find out what other countries are like. I think this is very important. I had the opportunity to spend a month abroad last year and I really feel like I learned a lot about myself and my country. I don't think America is the best country in the world (I don't really think there is a "best"), but I don't think we're doing TOO badly, either (there's always room for improvement). I think that a lot of the criticism of foreign countries (no matter what country you hail from) comes from ignorance of what said foreign countries are *really* like and the only way to really get past that is to go there and experience it for yourself (news sources are always going to have some kind of bias).

but no NHS and America still has poverty and the plague

Name one country that has no poverty, and I'll allow that as an argument.

And Cincinnati-style chili, which when combined with cheese, hotdog, bun yellow mustard, hot sauce and onions creates the legendary cheese coney.

Only the truely evil call that stuff "chili".

What does America do thats good?

Oh I dunno, like LEAD THE FREE WORLD maybe? Jeez people!

:p

Don't be silly. American poor have it bad. Does it make them feel better if the Roma are doing even worse in some eastern European shithole..?

EDIT: Think for a minute why I said what I said... Maybe I HAVE been spending time off of my PC and seeing things. Do you find it (even remotely) plausible?

Well, Novemberstan...have you ever been to any "stan" countries? I have. I can make first hand comparisons...can you?

Having it "bad" is relative. Most of the poor here have a chance to dig there way out. Those chances aren't available in most of the rest of the world.

Very well said Balindom The United States does far greater good and has always had good intentions far much greater than the bad stuff. I feel people look to USA and expect perfections but we are a nation filled with humans and we are far from perfect. However, our will to help those in need, our will to stand up to the evil dictators who kills hundreds of thousands of their own people, our generosity in giving away billions of dollars to others is far greater than the bad that comes about. We are a Good people. We strive because of our generosity. I apologize to the world if they feel we are ignorant but we are on the other side of the world. we have our own culture and beliefs. and we are a very opinionated people. There are all kinds of misinterpretations and misunderstandings but the bottom line is...the United States of America is a very generous and hopeful country.

Acts as global hegemon and preventer of Great Power Wars! Yay!

A huge, innovative economy, a great university system, a constant supply of world-changing and technological developments and the home to many of the world's major corporations.

....we're japan now?

Instead of going over all of history (and beating the World Wars drum to bring up the same old debates), I'll keep it to modern times: since 1970.

1. America has (and still does) provide sanctuary for people escaping their own country. Be it the Swedes in the 1800s, the Irish in 1840s and 50s, the the Poles & Italians in the 1900s, Cubans in the 1960s, the Mexicans & Chinese today or what-have-you... people come here.

2. When the Tsunami hit, the US Navy worked overtime to get medicine, food, water and other supplies, and provide massive medical help.
China's fleet stayed in the harbors.

3. The Information Age. The very Internet that you're on wouldn't exist without the US and Darpa. (Yes, CERN is important, but couldn't exist in a vacuum).

4. Hollywood. Do you really want to watch nothing but Swiss television specials on "The History of Cheese"?

5. Invasion of Afghanistan. There's no way anybody can say that a group of guys blowing up huge historical Buddas, forbidding children to fly kites, ban music and force women to wear burkhas is a good thing.

6. Bionic arms controlled by the human mind.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/09/14/bionic.arm.ap/index.html

7. The artificial heart.

8. The 747. Cheap air travel for the people.

9. The Hubble Space Telescope.

10. Harley-Davidsons. :D

....we're japan now?

OMGLOLZORZ!!!!!!!!! There's more than one country in the world that is radically innovative in technology and production systems.


The myth of hyper-tech Japan is a demon-child born of the xenophobia of the seventies, that was expressed towards Japan in particular.

....we're japan now?
*snorts* Japanese universities are good?!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

The myth of hyper-tech Japan is a demon-child born of the xenophobia of the seventies, that was expressed towards Japan in particular.
Oh I dunno, I've run into talking toilets here. You gotta admit, that's pretty high tech.

....we're japan now?

Japan learned the tools of the trade from the US...we're the original high-tech powerhouse, and we're still on the cutting edge of virtually all technological fields.

Japanese and American companies work together to develop and market products, and our research universities are constantly cooperating to develop new technologies; our two countries are intertwined when it comes to tech and economic strength. And, in a few years, we'll definitely add India and China to the mix...the global economy kicks ass.

Oh I dunno, I've run into talking toilets here. You gotta admit, that's pretty high tech.

aaaaaaand its entirley useless.
And its not that High Tech. I don't know, but im guessing its just a motion senser with a speaker. Or can you hold a conversation with the toilet?

aaaaaaand its entirley useless.
And its not that High Tech. I don't know, but im guessing its just a motion senser with a speaker. Or can you hold a conversation with the toilet?
I object! I believe there is very practical use in being cheerfully greeted "Good morning!" by my toilet the very first thing in the morning after I stumble out of bed.

And it's only polite for your toilet to say "Thank you" after you're done using it.

Besides, I like the fact that they are currently working on intergrating an MP3 player into it so my toilet can sing to me while I tinkle.

And yes, they are working on voice commands for the toliet right now so you COULD hold a conversation.

Besides, I like the fact that they are currently working on intergrating an MP3 player into it so my toilet can sing to me while I tinkle.

Okay, that is cool. I'd really like it to be able to play XM radio as well; I could listen to it both when I'm going to the bathroom and showering...the potential is unlimited.

I object! I believe there is very practical use in being cheerfully greeted "Good morning!" by my toilet the very first thing in the morning after I stumble out of bed.

And it's only polite for your toilet to say "Thank you" after you're done using it.

Besides, I like the fact that they are currently working on intergrating an MP3 player into it so my toilet can sing to me while I tinkle.

And yes, they are working on voice commands for the toliet right now so you COULD hold a conversation.
LOL
Why on earth would anyone want to hold a conversation with a toilet? What would you talk about?

Don't forget who brought modern Japan into being? If it wasn't for us, they'd still be raping China.

And you wonder why other countries are not too crazy about Americans? Here's your answer, total idiots who have no regard for the opinion of others.
It leads me to believe that in "America" you can say whatever you want as long as it agrees with everyone else!
Personally, I have nothing against Americans as a person, but as a population I feel that they are very ignorant and judgemental about other countries and how they are run. Before the US government sticks it's nose into the affairs of others, they should try cleaning up their own act!

Foot, mouth. Mouth, foot.

And Cincinnati-style chili, which when combined with cheese, hotdog, bun yellow mustard, hot sauce and onions creates the legendary cheese coney. That and Rally's...

God, I can't wait until I move back to Cincinnati so I can get some of those again.

Skyline FTW
I miss Ohio. It's better than Oklaoma


...(sip)
2. When the Tsunami hit, the US Navy worked overtime to get medicine, food, water and other supplies, and provide massive medical help.
China's fleet stayed in the harbors.

3. The Information Age. The very Internet that you're on wouldn't exist without the US and Darpa. (Yes, CERN is important, but couldn't exist in a vacuum).
...(snip)
You forgot the USAF's and the Army's involvment :(
And America didnt give us the Internet, Al Gore did!

LOL
Why on earth would anyone want to hold a conversation with a toilet? What would you talk about?
With Japanese toilets? Quite a bit. Some of them are now doing medical tests by extending probes into your wastes and there's talk of hooking them up to modems so that the data can be sent to your doctor in case of trouble. They can also take your weight and heart rate from the seat when you sit.

So you can talk about your health with your toilet. :D

With Japanese toilets? Quite a bit. Some of them are now doing medical tests by extending probes into your wastes and there's talk of hooking them up to modems so that the data can be sent to your doctor in case of trouble. They can also take your weight and heart rate from the seat when you sit.

So you can talk about your health with your toilet. :D

Thats hilarous. :p
Mabye its just me, but I don't want toilet poking my poop and telling me about it, let alone sending it to people. Imagine if it got hacked, and sent your poopinfo to everyone you knew.... lol. No, a good old flush handle is enough for me. :D

With Japanese toilets? Quite a bit. Some of them are now doing medical tests by extending probes into your wastes and there's talk of hooking them up to modems so that the data can be sent to your doctor in case of trouble. They can also take your weight and heart rate from the seat when you sit.

So you can talk about your health with your toilet. :D

Great, I can hear it now ... "You really should get more fiber in your diet, dear, and I believe we've been overdoing the beer and wine lately, just a little, not to mention the red meat. I'm just making suggestions, of course, but Dr. Kobayashi agrees." And then it freezes your account at the liquor store and tells the grocery not to sell you any nice steaks for the next two months ... No, thanks, I'll stick with the silent one I have now.

And I have had conversations with toilets, mostly in college, and mostly one-sided ones that consisted of me saying, "Oh God, why did I drink so much!"

Great, I can hear it now ... "You really should get more fiber in your diet, dear, and I believe we've been overdoing the beer and wine lately, just a little, not to mention the red meat. I'm just making suggestions, of course, but Dr. Kobayashi agrees." And then it freezes your account at the liquor store and tells the grocery not to sell you any nice steaks for the next two months ... No, thanks, I'll stick with the silent one I have now.

And I have had conversations with toilets, mostly in college, and mostly one-sided ones that consisted of me saying, "Oh God, why did I drink so much!"

You got that from that thing about pizza delivery. Good stuff (not really).

I don't remember having such conversations :D

The thing i love about America is that despite its huge size, even the most remote of areas pretty much still have electricity and modern toilets, and said toilets actually have toilet paper at hand. Taking a crap can be a whole major thing in even modern countries in Europe and places like China forget about it.

A huge, innovative economy, a great university system, a constant supply of world-changing and technological developments and the home to many of the world's major corporations. Our companies make products that make our lives easier and more comfortable, and they employ millions of people worldwide. Our farms are some of the most productive on earth, and our infrastructure enables goods and services to be shipped efficiently anywhere in the world.

In short, the US is a huge part of the world's economic and technological development and what we do can affect the entire world. In the past few decades, this growth has most definitely been for the better.

This is a very well said general summary.

America has amassed tremendous power and wealth. Our way of life encourages growth and prosperity.

We behave like a powerful nation behaves.

And we behave significantly better than countries that once held power.

Those now weak, once powerful countries are very critical of us now. And they gloat when we make a mistake. And they seemed shocked when we say we dont care what they think.

The world is a much better place with the United States.

Good things the USA has exported to the world:

Jazz
Soul
Funk
Gospel
other types of black American music. They're all good.
A model of sustainable democracy.
Weapons technology (the morality is arguable, but the technology itself is good)
Snack food
Mountain bikes
The works and ideas of Martin Luther King Jr. and the rest of the brave men and women who spearheaded the US civil rights movement.
US cigarettes are actually quite tasty and additive-free
Several of my relatives, though some of them entered the USA illegally.
Breakdancing
Geodesic domes
The cowboy mythos
The Simpsons
and the list goes on...


And of course, there are other things that the USA has given to the world that are not the exclusive province of the USA. Things like:
Hundreds, if not thousands, of academic and literary works that have changed the cultural landscape of the world.
Peacekeeping forces.
Nobel prize winners
The principles of freedom and democracy

It's not a cut and dry issue. With the exception of warzones no country is all bad and no country is all good.

In the US the poor are treated worse than in countries of comparable per capita economic wealth. For example, their medical care is far below what the poor in the EU or Scandanavia take for granted. Also direct cash welfare to the poor in the same countries is much higher than in the US.

In the US it is generally mroe easier to find employment and affordable housing than in other economically comparable countries, and certain things that fo rhte poro in europe we consider luxuries like cars and air conditioning are more affordable.

However public services in the US are generally poor in comparison. Western European (and indeed most Eastern European and most Asian) public transport and reach of infrastructure like paved roads, railroads, libraries and postal services are much more extensive. American public transport in paticular is decades behind Europe, developed Asia and the former Soviet Union nations.

However the US has been very sucessful in agriculture (depsite the occassional blunder) and in areas like popular culture has contributed significantly to the world, depsite having to work within heavy unwriteen restrictions with regards to domestic sensibilities about what is and is not OK to show/write about. That some truly impressive work has persevered despite this is remarkable and heartening.

You are obviously a freedom hating terrorist. You also probably enjoy pushing babies into the sunlight so they sneeze.


Awesome baby sneezes! They're almost as cool as cat sneezes..

I wish the sun was out and I had a baby to hand..

Good things the USA has exported to the world:

Jazz
Soul
Funk
Gospel
other types of black American music. They're all good.

A model of sustainable democracy.
Weapons technology (the morality is arguable, but the technology itself is good)
Snack food
Mountain bikes
The works and ideas of Martin Luther King Jr. and the rest of the brave men and women who spearheaded the US civil rights movement.
US cigarettes are actually quite tasty and additive-free
Several of my relatives, though some of them entered the USA illegally.
Breakdancing
Geodesic domes
The cowboy mythos
The Simpsons
and the list goes on...
And of course, there are other things that the USA has given to the world that are not the exclusive province of the USA. Things like:
Hundreds, if not thousands, of academic and literary works that have changed the cultural landscape of the world.
Peacekeeping forces.
Nobel prize winners
The principles of freedom and democracy

black music-subjective-jazz, funk, soul, gospel, rap-all repulsive annoying crap IMO, gets little or no attention here

sustainable democracy-like no other countries have this? or have had for longer or better democracys

snack food?-who cares, every country has snack food

Cowboys mythos-murder and lawlessness is a good thing?

The works and ideas of Martin Luther King Jr. and the rest of the brave men and women who spearheaded the US civil rights movement.-years behind other countries

US cigarettes-a drug that kills more people every year than every illegal drug combined, yeah there's something to be proud of

Breakdancing-stupidest danceform ever, how does it even qualify as a dance form?

Peacekeeping forces.??????when did this ever happen?

The principles of freedom and democracy-the USA wasn't the first or is it the best at this-many american blacks didn't even have the right to vote until the 1970's, compare this to N.Z.'s complete democracy in 1890's .

After reading numerous posts, I was inspired to write a New Topic. There seems to be a lot of focus on everything bad about America and the current adminstration so after reading all of the negativity I was inspired to write something in hopes of getting positive feed back. Is America really that bad? What is good about having America in todays world?


we have survivor and American Idol ! WHAT do you have ????:D

dont forget we also have Don King ...

Try to beat that..and WALL MART !!



we also just happen to be the most powerfull and greatest coutry on the planet and will kick your ass if you deny it ...so bow down before the dollar and like it you bitches !:D


A disneyland is soon to open in Iran after we finish the parking lot ...


bwaahahahahahahaha


We are GODS !

It's kind of hard, being an American, to answer this without coming across as a braggart...

But what the heck!

What does this country do that's any good...

For history:
We were on the right side of both world wars.
Squished the Barbary Pirates
The Monroe Doctrine
"That's one small step for a man... One giant leap for Mankind"

For the World:
International Aid. More than anyone else.
(Did you know the USA provides more money for aid to the Palestinians than all the Arab nations combined? Chew on that awhile.)
More International students come here for higher education than to anywhere else by a vast margin

For Technology:
Cotton Gin
Telephones
Lightbulbs
Trains
Cars
Airplanes
TVs
Radios

Militarily:
South Korea
Kuwait
France
Belgium
Taiwan
Philipines
Iraq
Afganistan

For Science:
American space probes have explored all 8 planets ether from orbit, on the surface or both.
The Hubble Space Telescope
"That's one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind."

The American flag flies on 7 continents, 2 planets, one moon and has left the Solar System

Economically:
The U.S. Dollar is the standard on a LOT of countries for monetary stability


I could go on...

What does America do that's any Good?


This is really an easy question.


We exist .

Very well said Balindom The United States does far greater good and has always had good intentions far much greater than the bad stuff. I feel people look to USA and expect perfections but we are a nation filled with humans and we are far from perfect. However, our will to help those in need, our will to stand up to the evil dictators who kills hundreds of thousands of their own people, our generosity in giving away billions of dollars to others is far greater than the bad that comes about. We are a Good people. We strive because of our generosity. I apologize to the world if they feel we are ignorant but we are on the other side of the world. we have our own culture and beliefs. and we are a very opinionated people. There are all kinds of misinterpretations and misunderstandings but the bottom line is...the United States of America is a very generous and hopeful country.

-stand up to evil dictators-let's be honest the US only opposes dictators that are in it's own best interest to stand up to (oil), you support more Dictators than you oppose and don't give a F*** about their oppressed people

-giving away billions?-you don't give away shitte, most of the billions is expected to be used in the purchase military equipment from the US

-stand up to evil dictators-let's be honest the US only opposes dictators that are in it's own best interest to stand up to (oil), you support more Dictators than you oppose and don't give a F*** about their oppressed people

-giving away billions?-you don't give away shitte, most of the billions is expected to be used in the purchase military equipment from the US

You are correct in many respects with regards to US foreign policy. However, this does not negate the good things that the US has done for the world. Please try to stay on topic.

-giving away billions?-you don't give away shitte, most of the billions is expected to be used in the purchase military equipment from the US

US citizens are some of the biggest and most generous private contributors to charity in the entire world. We have given over $260 billion to charities in 2005; that's over $800 for every man, woman, and child in the US.

The US is a very generous nation and we deserve credit for giving so much to others when we need it.

In the US the poor are treated worse than in countries of comparable per capita economic wealth. For example, their medical care is far below what the poor in the EU or Scandanavia take for granted. Also direct cash welfare to the poor in the same countries is much higher than in the US.

I doubt it, but even if that were true, those countries have have populations comparable to small towns in the U.S., with separate, often extensive, governments and oppressive taxes. They can keep it. My town (which no one on this forum has ever been through or probably even heard of) has more inhabitants than, say, Iceland, and takes in most of the county's poor, who live better than most Europeans, but you'll never see that as a newspaper headline.

Anyway, more importantly.. no one, in 5 pages, has mentioned Corn-dogs! Shame on all of you. Where would we be today without fried dough? Hm? :D

-stand up to evil dictators-let's be honest the US only opposes dictators that are in it's own best interest to stand up to (oil), you support more Dictators than you oppose and don't give a F*** about their oppressed people

-giving away billions?-you don't give away shitte, most of the billions is expected to be used in the purchase military equipment from the US

Yeah it's all about oil, isn't it? How much oil did we get for liberating Kuwait?

oh.. right.. none. Kuwait is an OPEC nation and thus the price of its oil, even to us, is set by OPEC.

How much oil have we gotten out of Iraq since 2003? Oh wait... we buy it from them to get their economy going... and the net cost of this would NOT be worth it if it was just about oil. Hmm... How much oil have we plundered from Iraq? Must be a lot, right? So much that our gas only costs us 89 cents a gallon... Oh wait...

And we DO give away billions. You think we're selling arms to Ethiopia? What about Russia? If it's not money it's grain and other food supplies. We give more money to Israel than they use to buy equipment from us.

THINK!

For history:
We were on the right side of both world wars.
There is no right and wrong sides in war, it's just a matter of surviving.

Squished the Barbary Pirates
I'm indifferent on this... A beneficial thing, but not something we needed America for.

The Monroe Doctrine

"That's one small step for a man... One giant leap for Mankind"
Cheesy, but a genuine historical step of great importance to humans, even if the technology was initiated using some of the most inhumane methods we as a species could come up with. (Von Braun was brilliant, but wether or not i would have touched his technology, honestly, I dont know)

For the World:
International Aid. More than anyone else.
But not as a portion of your wealth, you could do more, this bothers me.

(Did you know the USA provides more money for aid to the Palestinians than all the Arab nations combined? Chew on that awhile.)
This is a benefical thing and should be welcomed. It does not however, compensate for the attitude the US adopts when dealing with the Palestinians.

More International students come here for higher education than to anywhere else by a vast margin
Because your universities are undeniably excellent.

For Technology:
Cotton Gin - Yea
Telephones - A world changing technology always underestimated
Lightbulbs - Indeed
Trains - Invented in Britain
Cars - This is historically a murky point. The earlest automated transit device hailed from France but was steam based not internal combustion.
Airplanes - A real plus, my life would be impossible without the filthy noisy things.
TVs - Hmmmm
Radios - Invented outside the US

Militarily:
South Korea - I approve of hte support for SK but not for the way in which it's conducted. SK should have control of it's own military force.
Kuwait - I wish the intentions were true
France - I'd be intruged as to what the situation would be now. Kudos when it's due though. Better late than never.
Belgium - Whatever...
Taiwan - Commendable
Philipines - Debateable
Iraq - Detestable
Afganistan - The aim was true, but the job was abandoned.

For Science:
American space probes have explored all 8 planets ether from orbit, on the surface or both. - Commendable, although not the only nation to explore, it was done and that is commendable.
The Hubble Space Telescope - Commendable
"That's one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind." - Likewise

The American flag flies on 7 continents, 2 planets, one moon and has left the Solar System - FCUK yeah!

-stand up to evil dictators-let's be honest the US only opposes dictators that are in it's own best interest to stand up to (oil), you support more Dictators than you oppose and don't give a F*** about their oppressed people

-giving away billions?-you don't give away shitte, most of the billions is expected to be used in the purchase military equipment from the US

we have to give them something to fight with so we can pratice our killing methods on live targets...and make really cool explosions and shit .

at least we are fair .

The People of the USA, as a whole, are generally very good at large scale agriculture and mass communications/information dissemination.

Apart from that...

not sure...

It's kind of hard, being an American, to answer this without coming across as a braggart...

But what the heck!

What does this country do that's any good...

For history:
We were on the right side of both world wars.
Squished the Barbary Pirates
The Monroe Doctrine
"That's one small step for a man... One giant leap for Mankind"

For the World:
International Aid. More than anyone else.
(Did you know the USA provides more money for aid to the Palestinians than all the Arab nations combined? Chew on that awhile.)
More International students come here for higher education than to anywhere else by a vast margin

For Technology:
Cotton Gin
Telephones
Lightbulbs
Trains
Cars
Airplanes
TVs
Radios

Militarily:
South Korea
Kuwait
France
Belgium
Taiwan
Philipines
Iraq
Afganistan

For Science:
American space probes have explored all 8 planets ether from orbit, on the surface or both.
The Hubble Space Telescope
"That's one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind."

The American flag flies on 7 continents, 2 planets, one moon and has left the Solar System

Economically:
The U.S. Dollar is the standard on a LOT of countries for monetary stability


I could go on...
-We were on the right side of both world wars.-so were many others-and 1st war is debatable-there was no right side-the winners were just as guilty of starting that war

-foreign aid-calculated by size of country many give more, US has 10x's Canada's population but does not give 10x's as much. and much of the US aid is military

-international students-same, the usa has more univerities than any other country so what?-Canada and S Korea have more university graduates that make up their population than the USA

technology-telephone? questionable-invented by a Scot, who lived in Canada and worked in the USA

lightbulb-a Canadian Henry Woodward invented an electric light bulb in 1874 and sold the patent to Thomas Edison

Trains-invented in England and the Japanese and euro's far far better trains than the USA

Cars-i wouldn't trade my toyota for an american made car

airplanes any better than the euro's?

Tv's-mine is Japanese-all the better TV's are made in asia

radio-not an american invention- and who cares

military??????? what the hell is that about

space exploration-usa rules-well done

US citizens are some of the biggest and most generous private contributors to charity in the entire world. We have given over $260 billion to charities in 2005; that's over $800 for every man, woman, and child in the US.

The US is a very generous nation and we deserve credit for giving so much to others when we need it.USA population is 4 times as big as France and Britian does it give 4 times as much in aid? no it does not. I believe USA ranks 21st in aid giving countries. Tiny (pop 3-4 million) Norway leads the world in aid given.

[Exerpt from Snow Crash, by Neal Stephenson]

When it gets down to it -- talking trade balances here -- once we've brain-drained all our technology into other countries, once things have evened out, they're making cars in Bolivia and microwave ovens in Tadzhikistan and selling them here -- once our edge in natural resources has been made irrelevant by giant Hong Kong ships and dirigibles that can ship North Dakota all the way to New Zealand for a nickel -- once the Invisible Hand has taken away all those historical inequities and smeared them out into a broad global layer of what a Pakistani brickmaker would consider to be prosperity -- y'know what? There's only four things we do better than anyone else

music
movies
microcode (software)
high-speed pizza delivery

It's not a cut and dry issue. With the exception of warzones no country is all bad and no country is all good.

In the US the poor are treated worse than in countries of comparable per capita economic wealth. For example, their medical care is far below what the poor in the EU or Scandanavia take for granted. Also direct cash welfare to the poor in the same countries is much higher than in the US.
That isn't because the US doesn't spend on healthcare; it does, and more than some European nations even - the problem is that it spends inefficiently. Like others have said, most nations which boast excellent healthcare are tiny, and I will add, usually oil rich. Norway is a prime example here. France is about the only major European country whose healthcare system is worthy of particular praise. I am not sure if direct cash welfare is higher in Europe, but I would be happy if it were.

In the US it is generally mroe easier to find employment and affordable housing than in other economically comparable countries, and certain things that fo rhte poro in europe we consider luxuries like cars and air conditioning are more affordable.
So much is true.

However public services in the US are generally poor in comparison. Western European (and indeed most Eastern European and most Asian) public transport and reach of infrastructure like paved roads, railroads, libraries and postal services are much more extensive. American public transport in paticular is decades behind Europe, developed Asia and the former Soviet Union nations.

Again, this is mostly due to inefficient government spending in the US; it's a massive country, making it difficult to target spending. Keep in mind more people in the US than in Europe drive cars, thus the corresponding need for public transport isn't as great. Europe also has many private companies involved in the provision of public transport, which might help.

A huge, innovative economy, a great university system, a constant supply of world-changing and technological developments and the home to many of the world's major corporations. Our companies make products that make our lives easier and more comfortable, and they employ millions of people worldwide. Our farms are some of the most productive on earth, and our infrastructure enables goods and services to be shipped efficiently anywhere in the world.

In short, the US is a huge part of the world's economic and technological development and what we do can affect the entire world. In the past few decades, this growth has most definitely been for the better.
Agreed on all accounts. The US has also made some interesting cultural contributions to the world, some of which are highly valuable (I particularly praise the great libertarian thinkers who originated in the US).

To the person who said "is it good that US farms are productive?", well duh, yes. It's one thing to subsidise an industry, which does indeed distort the comparative advantage of various nations, and a completely different thing to be more productive, ie actually possess the comparative advantage.

The only thing I will criticise about the great nation is its interventionist policies. It could do without them.

USA population is 4 times as big as France and Britian does it give 4 times as much in aid? no it does not. I believe USA ranks 21st in aid giving countries. Tiny (pop 3-4 million) Norway leads the world in aid given.
If this is so, are these donations private or public? It is one thing for citizens to voluntarily give aid, and another to have it coerced out of them.

Norway is around 5 million by the way. And it is oil rich. Heavily oil rich.

-We were on the right side of both world wars.-so were many others-and 1st war is debatable-there was no right side-the winners were just as guilty of starting that war

It doesn't matter that there were many others. I never said we were EXCLUSIVELY on the right side. And yes, it's debatable, and this is my opinion.


-foreign aid-calculated by size of country many give more, US has 10x's Canada's population but does not give 10x's as much. and much of the US aid is military

So? Shall we dismiss it then because "it's not enough?" Remember that foreign aid is a matter of charity, not debt. We don't HAVE to give anything.


-international students-same, the usa has more univerities than any other country so what?-Canada and S Korea have more university graduates that make up their population than the USA
Which is why I put it under the international heading.


technology-telephone? questionable-invented by a Scot, who lived in Canada and worked in the USA
I wonder why he was in the USA... Must have been a coincidence.


lightbulb-a Canadian Henry Woodward invented an electric light bulb in 1874 and sold the patent to Thomas Edison
...who went on to invent the lightbulb that we use today. The lights that existed at the time were quite different and not nearly as good.


Trains-invented in England and the Japanese and euro's far far better trains than the USA
Tom Thumb

And who cares whose were better? I didn't state that we had the best, only that they came from here. You do like that strawman, don't you?


Cars-i wouldn't trade my toyota for an american made car

Neither would I, but still beside the point.


airplanes any better than the euro's?

Yeah, actually they are.. but also beside the point.


Tv's-mine is Japanese-all the better TV's are made in asia

Opinion, and beside the point.


radio-not an american invention- and who cares

Wrong answer


military??????? what the hell is that about

space exploration-usa rules-well done

You do understand, don't you, that the thread is about what America does that's good. It's not meant, from what I can see, as a competition to see who does it best. Most of your replies have to do with who does what better, and are all irrelevant. As it happens, I'm not terribly impressed with American cars either, and I know that Japanese and French trains are faster... but the Japanese and French didn 't invent trains, and the Americans did invent the car, ergo, it's a good thing America did.

USA population is 4 times as big as France and Britian does it give 4 times as much in aid? no it does not. I believe USA ranks 21st in aid giving countries. Tiny (pop 3-4 million) Norway leads the world in aid given.

I'm sure the Sudanese appreciated those $16 very much. ;)

Yeah it's all about oil, isn't it? How much oil did we get for liberating Kuwait?

oh.. right.. none. Kuwait is an OPEC nation and thus the price of its oil, even to us, is set by OPEC.

How much oil have we gotten out of Iraq since 2003? Oh wait... we buy it from them to get their economy going... and the net cost of this would NOT be worth it if it was just about oil. Hmm... How much oil have we plundered from Iraq? Must be a lot, right? So much that our gas only costs us 89 cents a gallon... Oh wait...

And we DO give away billions. You think we're selling arms to Ethiopia? What about Russia? If it's not money it's grain and other food supplies. We give more money to Israel than they use to buy equipment from us.

THINK!

-think-yes do that-midle eastern wars are all about a secure oil supply-you maybe the last person on the planet that doesn't know that-your gas costs 89 cents a gallon, mine cost 4x's that and in europe 8x's.

give money to Israel, yeah I suppose that was exploding money bombs they were dropping on Lebanon-any money given to Israel allows Israel to open more illegal settlements and buy more weapons

-think-yes do that-midle eastern wars are all about a secure oil supply-you maybe the last person on the planet that doesn't know that-your gas costs 89 cents a gallon, mine cost 4x's that and in europe 8x's.

give money to Israel, yeah I suppose that was exploding money bombs they were dropping on Lebanon-any money given to Israel allows Israel to open more illegal settlements and buy more weapons
Here is an analysis on why European gas prices are higher: http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0826/p01s03-woeu.html

Note that taxation in Europe on fuel is high. This contributes to our higher prices.

On gas prices in the US: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp

You need to read up before you make such amateurish attempts at criticising the US...

-think-yes do that-midle eastern wars are all about a secure oil supply-you maybe the last person on the planet that doesn't know that-your gas costs 89 cents a gallon, mine cost 4x's that and in europe 8x's.
Ok I'm done here. You obviously aren't bothering to read my posts carefully. You just want to be right and to hell with anyone who doesn't agree with you. My statement about 89 cents a gallon as sarcasm. We're paying 2.60 here. I won't waste my time with your posts if you're not willing to read mine.

...who went on to invent the lightbulb that we use today. The lights that existed at the time were quite different and not nearly as good.
.

Exactly. Edison took a bulb with a lifespan of a couple hours and tinkered with the filament until it could last 10,000+ hours.. Saying Edison didn't invent the lightbulb is like saying the train or auto was never actually invented, because the wheel already existed, and so neither are separate inventions. The filament *is* the bulb.

If this is so, are these donations private or public? It is one thing for citizens to voluntarily give aid, and another to have it coerced out of them.

Norway is around 5 million by the way. And it is oil rich. Heavily oil rich.

cia-facts population 4.6 mill-no biggie

Oil rich-sure but so is the USA-Luxemburg has no oil, Ireland has no oil both give much more.

and how do you know US citizen give more voluntarily? If let my government give aid/charity from my taxes is that not the same? We have universal health care that we agree to so that no one here goes without healthcare, that is a charity I voluntarily agree to. The US has 40 some million people that have no healthcare so you're charities don't reach them.

USA population is 4 times as big as France and Britian does it give 4 times as much in aid? no it does not. I believe USA ranks 21st in aid giving countries. Tiny (pop 3-4 million) Norway leads the world in aid given.

21st in government aid but 1st in private aid...our private foreign aid donations are bigger than the entire economy of Norway and equal to 15% of the entire economy of France or the UK. We give a huge amount of money, and it is done out of the generosity of our citizens rather than by government. I trust private citizens with their money far more than the world's governments.

cia-facts population 4.6 mill-no biggie

Oil rich-sure but so is the USA-Luxemburg has no oil, Ireland has no oil both give much more.
Luxembourg benefits from being one of the financial centres of the world, and having a per capita income that dwarves that of most other nations. Ireland too is rich, partially due to its free market system. I am not aware of any particular advantages it enjoys. All these nations are tiny though and have rich governments, donating in place of their wealthier citizens. The US, by contrast, donates the most privately.

and how do you know US citizen give more voluntarily? If let my government give aid/charity from my taxes is that not the same? We have universal health care that we agree to so that no one here goes without healthcare, that is a charity I voluntarily agree to. The US has 40 some million people that have no healthcare so you're charities don't reach them.
It is one thing for you, yourself, to let your government give, and another for it to automatically give without it even asking you, personally. It taxes everyone, whether they like it or not, both those in agreement and those who are not. This is not voluntary charity in any sense of the word - there's a difference between a government conducting voluntary charities, and coercion of this sort.

The US' healthcare system is weak due to its inefficiency, not inadequate spending. Therefore charity has little to do with this - it isn't the source of the US system's funding. And given that we are debating international, and not domestic, aid, I fail to see how this is even relevant.

and how do you know US citizen give more voluntarily? If let my government give aid/charity from my taxes is that not the same? We have universal health care that we agree to so that no one here goes without healthcare, that is a charity I voluntarily agree to. The US has 40 some million people that have no healthcare so you're charities don't reach them.

Well, private citizens give more than the entire economy of Norway...and access to health insurance has nothing to do with charity. In fact, I could consider defense spending a kind of charity because so many people are employed by it...also, you have no guarantee that your tax dollars actually went to foreign aid. Even worse, there's a chance that foreign aid really means "military aid to friendly dictators" or something equally heinous.

And I also wouldn't want government health care; honestly, the kind of bureaucracy and waste that's rampant in Medicare would be raised to a whole other horrific level when it's applied to all kinds of healthcare. Maybe some government assistance for health insurance, but I do not believe a government healthcare program is desirable or efficient.

And I also wouldn't want government health care; honestly, the kind of bureaucracy and waste that's rampant in Medicare would be raised to a whole other horrific level when it's applied to all kinds of healthcare. Maybe some government assistance for health insurance, but I do not believe a government healthcare program is desirable or efficient.
Indeed. :) Maybe healthcare vouchers - if the government really wants to provide healthcare, let it. It must then also manage its finances, fund itself and freely compete with the private sector. Tax-payers who opt out of it can get a cash rebate and head to a private institution of their choice.

Exactly. Edison took a bulb with a lifespan of a couple hours and tinkered with the filament until it could last 10,000+ hours.. Saying Edison didn't invent the lightbulb is like saying the train or auto was never actually invented, because the wheel already existed, and so neither are separate inventions. The filament *is* the bulb.-edison refined and improved the light bulb-he didn't invent it-if understand your reasoning we could apply it to tv's-a german invention but or as technology is perfected by the japanese or Koreans-who do you credit with the TV the inventor or the best developer?

many inventions come from accumualted knowledge of many people over time so who gets credit?

many inventions come from accumualted knowledge of many people over time so who gets credit?
The one who puts all this knowledge together and actually takes advantage of it would be my guess.

In the case you refer to, there is a slight difference between refining televisions and revolutionising how light bulbs work so as to make them viable products...

It's kind of hard, being an American, to answer this without coming across as a braggart...

But what the heck!

What does this country do that's any good...

For history:
We were on the right side of both world wars.
Squished the Barbary Pirates
The Monroe Doctrine
"That's one small step for a man... One giant leap for Mankind"

For the World:
International Aid. More than anyone else.
(Did you know the USA provides more money for aid to the Palestinians than all the Arab nations combined? Chew on that awhile.)
More International students come here for higher education than to anywhere else by a vast margin

For Technology:
Cotton Gin
Telephones
Lightbulbs
Trains
Cars
Airplanes
TVs
Radios

Militarily:
South Korea
Kuwait
France
Belgium
Taiwan
Philipines
Iraq
Afganistan

For Science:
American space probes have explored all 8 planets ether from orbit, on the surface or both.
The Hubble Space Telescope
"That's one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind."

The American flag flies on 7 continents, 2 planets, one moon and has left the Solar System

Economically:
The U.S. Dollar is the standard on a LOT of countries for monetary stability

I could go on...

Just adding- We developed cures for more than a few diseases.
People seem to come here a little more often for medical treatment than other countries.

Let's not forget me. :cool:

Well, private citizens give more than the entire economy of Norway...and access to health insurance has nothing to do with charity. In fact, I could consider defense spending a kind of charity because so many people are employed by it...also, you have no guarantee that your tax dollars actually went to foreign aid. Even worse, there's a chance that foreign aid really means "military aid to friendly dictators" or something equally heinous.

And I also wouldn't want government health care; honestly, the kind of bureaucracy and waste that's rampant in Medicare would be raised to a whole other horrific level when it's applied to all kinds of healthcare. Maybe some government assistance for health insurance, but I do not believe a government healthcare program is desirable or efficient. agree on the military spending-I have seen many statistics that regard military personal as *unempolyed*.

Government Medicare is very efficient it's in the interest of insurance companies and doctors to portray it it as inefficient, they will tell you anything to keep it the way it is. In Canada the cost of universal healthcare is about $2,000 per person, in the USA costs about $4,000 per person and that leaves 40 million with no health care, and Canadian live on an average of 2 yrs longer than americans-so which system works better?

In many cases foreign aid harms poor countries. If we protect them from their own bad management, they have no incentive to manage themselves better.
As a Canadian I would expect your standards to be higher than that.
I think that's a pretty high standard. The poor people in America are some of the world's richest people. You can't actually do much better than that.
American poor have it bad.
How bad can it be when they're among the richest people in the world?

Oh, and that whole landing on the moon thing. We did that.

Government Medicare is very efficient it's in the interest of insurance companies and doctors to portray it it as inefficient, they will tell you anything to keep it the way it is. In Canada the cost of universal healthcare is about $2,000 per person, in the USA costs about $4,000 per person and that leaves 40 million with no health care, and Canadian live on an average of 2 yrs longer than americans-so which system works better?
Really now?
http://www.i2i.org/main/article.php?article_id=500

People also claim US inefficiency because US expenditures average about $2,500 per person per year while Canada's are about $1,700. These claims mislead because they fail to correct for obvious differences in the two populations. The US, for example, spends more on medical R&D, has an older population, and a higher incidence of drug abuse and violent crime. US health care spending also includes purchases by Canadians who would rather pay for US medical care than endure "free" Canadian care. When properly adjusted for these differences, average US spending drops below the Canadian level.

The US healthcare system doesn't suffer from a problem of inadequate government spending - rather, it suffers from inefficiency.

Before being stampeded into replacing the decisions of millions of informed consumers and their doctors with the superficial brilliance of a cadre of lawyers, we should try a more promising approach. Health insurers, physicians, hospitals, medical device manufacturers, and pharmaceutical companies operate under a crushing load of unnecessary regulation that discourages innovation and adds relatively little to the quality of care. Some economists estimate that unnecessary regulations increase medical costs by as much as 50%.

agree on the military spending-I have seen many statistics that regard military personal as *unempolyed*.

Government Medicare is very efficient it's in the interest of insurance companies and doctors to portray it it as inefficient, they will tell you anything to keep it the way it is. In Canada the cost of universal healthcare is about $2,000 per person, in the USA costs about $4,000 per person and that leaves 40 million with no health care, and Canadian live on an average of 2 yrs longer than americans-so which system works better?
Americans don't typically have to wait months for diagnostic tests, either.

That said, that's not the fault of the universal coverage. That's the fault of the government provision of heath services. Other countires with universal coverage tend to employ private heathcare providers, and they offer better medical service. Iceland has an amazing healthcare system, one Canada would do well to emulate.

And that 40 million number is horribly misleading. That's the number of people who don't have health insurance. That's not just people who can't get insurance. it includes people who voluntary eschew insurance, either because they're young and stupid (and want to spend the money of beer instead) or because they're wealthy and have a more efficient system of savings. And America has lots of wealthy people.

And while the US has higher percapita government expenditures on health, there are no waiting lists and they fund vastly more medical research than we do.

Look at the big picture.

I wonder why he was in the USA... Must have been a coincidence.

So you're saying that where the person happens to be makes it that countries invention? By that standard several athletic world records are now held by mexico (though not by mexicans) because they were set in Mexico city. You'd be on stronger ground arguing that Elisha Gray actually invented it.



And who cares whose were better? I didn't state that we had the best, only that they came from here. You do like that strawman, don't you?

Not sure exactly what you mean, trains definitely weren't invented in the USA.


Neither would I, but still beside the point.

Cars are not an American invention either.


Opinion, and beside the point.

Partial credit. An American did invent the first all-electronic television, but semi-electronic ones were around earlier.


Wrong answer

Who invented the radio is controversial. But most probably a Swede (emigrated to the USA but still a Swede)

That said, that's not the fault of the universal coverage. That's the fault of the government provision of heath services. Other countires with universal coverage tend to employ private heathcare providers, and they offer better medical service. Iceland has an amazing healthcare system, one Canada would do well to emulate.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/799444.stm

The French system isn't too shabby either; definitely one of the best in the EU, although I'm not sure how it measures up to the Icelandic one.

America is good at making its poor suffer.

Really? We're one of the countries in the world whose poor have a problem with obesity.

Are you saying they would be better off, starving in Ethiopia?

http://www.i2i.org/main/article.php?article_id=500



Really now?

The US healthcare system doesn't suffer from a problem of inadequate government spending - rather, it suffers from inefficiency.

read the article-funny- it's an opinion only, I read the opposite opinion in a Washington Post(?) article a few weeks ago

americans have an older population than Canada, we live 2 yrs longer so that fact says we an older population,-we have worries about our national pension plan failing because of our huge number of aging baby boomers.

Canadians seeking medical help in the US? yeah whinners with lots of cash-people dying waiting for treatment here? playing with statistics, if I die of a heart attack while waiting for knee surgery I would be included in the that stat-truth is is very few die while waiting, if you need emergancy medical help you get it, elective non life threatening surgery cases have to wait, so what if you are on waiting list for your face lift.-antiquated hospitals? the writer of the article has likely never set foot in a Canadian hospital. Little R&D here, hmmm I'll have to ask some of my doctor friends what they spend all their time doing in their labs.

We live 2 yrs longer!!!! is the telling statistic that matters!!! we cannot be become uninsurable!!! we cannot be bankrupt by an illness!!!! 100% of the population is entitled to equal treatment whether they pay taxes or not. You can continue to believe your insurance companies that "their" system is best or you start looking at the real facts.

Really? We're one of the countries in the world whose poor have a problem with obesity.

Are you saying they would be better off, starving in Ethiopia?
I suppose according to their logic, unless you live in a luxury mansion and drive a limo, you're poor...

Really? We're one of the countries in the world whose poor have a problem with obesity.

Are you saying they would be better off, starving in Ethiopia?
That's what I've been saying. If you ranked all the people in the world, America's poorest people would be in the top quintile.

I suppose according to their logic, unless you live in a luxury mansion and drive a limo, you're poor...
That would weaken their argument even further. Because then middle class Americans count as poor, and they're even richer still.

That homeless beggar on the frozen street corner in Chicago is wealthier than literally billions of people in Asia and Africa.

americans have an older population than Canada, we live 2 yrs longer so that fact says we an older population,-we have worries about our national pension plan failing because of our huge number of aging baby boomers.
Living 2 years longer does not mean the same as having a portion of the population so large to qualify as a nation with an ageing population...

We live 2 yrs longer!!!! is the telling statistic that matters!!! we cannot be become uninsurable!!! we cannot be bankrupt by an illness!!!! 100% of the population is entitled to equal treatment whether they pay taxes or not. You can continue to believe your insurance companies that "their" system is best or you start looking at the real facts.
Ummm, this has nothing to do with insurance companies - it has to do with disambiguating facts. You cannot make a proper comparison between the US and Canada unless these factors are taken into consideration. For instance, your elongated lifespan may be due to factors other than healthcare as well. Other posters have given you reasons as to why the US number of uninsured is so seemingly high - read them.

They gave us the..............

SCREAM!!!

SCREAM!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5FzCeV0ZFc)

That would weaken their argument even further. Because then middle class Americans count as poor, and they're even richer still.
Funny, because this is exactly the argument I encountered with someone on this very forum a few days ago - namely, that most Americans are poor, even those belonging to the middle class. I wonder where these people get the energy to conjure such nonsense! I asked for proof repeatedly - I suppose it's too much to ask of them to substantiate their drivel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/799444.stm

The French system isn't too shabby either; definitely one of the best in the EU, although I'm not sure how it measures up to the Icelandic one.

The French one's overrated (at least according to a friend of my mother's who lives in France), apparently the Gov only contribute 60% of the money.

Americans don't typically have to wait months for diagnostic tests, either.

That said, that's not the fault of the universal coverage. That's the fault of the government provision of heath services. Other countires with universal coverage tend to employ private heathcare providers, and they offer better medical service. Iceland has an amazing healthcare system, one Canada would do well to emulate.

And that 40 million number is horribly misleading. That's the number of people who don't have health insurance. That's not just people who can't get insurance. it includes people who voluntary eschew insurance, either because they're young and stupid (and want to spend the money of beer instead) or because they're wealthy and have a more efficient system of savings. And America has lots of wealthy people.

And while the US has higher percapita government expenditures on health, there are no waiting lists and they fund vastly more medical research than we do.

Look at the big picture.

US higher per capita expenditures-no waiting lists-and which conservative government in Canada has created a waiting list problem and hospital shortage by deliberately bulldozing hospitals and deliberatly underfunding health care in it's province?

40million-yeah, stats can be played with-but I've no doubt the majority of those 40 million choose not to have insurance because they can't afford it, not because they're rich or stupid.

Canadians LIVE ON AVERAGE 2!!! YEARS LONGER THAN AMERICANS-you can ignore and avoid that fact all you want butin the end it's the only one that matters.

The French one's overrated (at least according to a friend of my mother's who lives in France), apparently the Gov only contribute 60% of the money.
It's rated based on its efficiency and quality, not who pays the bill at the end of the day. It achieves what it sets out to do, and it does so well. That the government contributes "only" 60% of the money is irrelevant.

Canadians LIVE ON AVERAGE 2!!! YEARS LONGER THAN AMERICANS-you can ignore and avoid that fact all you want butin the end it's the only one that matters.

Canadians arn't fatasses, either. Ya think that has anything to do with it?

Canadians arn't fatasses, either. Ya think that has anything to do with it?

Not for long. Apparently, the obesity thing is spreading like wildfire in all other Western countries.

Only a matter of time now.

The French one's overrated (at least according to a friend of my mother's who lives in France), apparently the Gov only contribute 60% of the money.no matter how good a system is regardless of country-people there will always complain it isn't good enough-it's human nature to complain-if your friend lived in Sudan then they would have a medical system to complain about

Canadians arn't fatasses, either. Ya think that has anything to do with it?plenty of fatasses here, as many as in the US, I can't say. Health care here also includes proper health education, behaviour modification(fitness diet) promoted by government health organizations, prevention of illness.

plenty of fatasses here, as many as in the US, I can't say. Health care here also includes proper health education, behaviour modification(fitness diet) promoted by government health organizations, prevention of illness.

You can't order people to be healthy.

The US excels at marketing.

Here's a good example. HK, a German firm, which makes extremely nice pistols.

A picture from a recent catalog:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/funny/badbrochure.jpg

There's only one little problem. The rounds are in the magazine backwards. Loaded in this fashion, the pistol will not function at all.

A minor marketing point, you might say. But important, because customers notice when you're stupid.

You can't order people to be healthy.education isn't "ordering", I'm still 25lbs overweight despite their best efforts to have me change my ways, I like my Lay's.

US higher per capita expenditures-no waiting lists-and which conservative government in Canada has created a waiting list problem and hospital shortage by deliberately bulldozing hospitals and deliberatly underfunding health care in it's province?
All of Canada has waiting list problems. The only provinces that are effectively dealing with those problems are the ones who mnage to reduce the number of people getting public diagnostic tests. Either by allowing private diagnostic tests (BC, Alberta) or by using drugs instead of treatment (Quebec).

Have you even bothered to check provincial waiting list stats, or are you just claiming that conservative governments caused the problems because you'd like it if that were true?
40million-yeah, stats can be played with-but I've no doubt the majority of those 40 million choose not to have insurance because they can't afford it, not because they're rich or stupid.
Perhaps not, but it's not an accurate number and you shouldn't quote it like it is.
Canadians LIVE ON AVERAGE 2!!! YEARS LONGER THAN AMERICANS-you can ignore and avoid that fact all you want butin the end it's the only one that matters.
How many of those years are spent in pain waiting for medical treatment?

And, what reason have you to believe that's caused by healthcare? Americans are fatter than we are - maybe that's why they die earlier. They also have more deaths caused by violent crime. That would also reduce the number. They lose vastly more soldiers in war and training accidents.

Again, look at the big picture. You've jumped to a conclusion and now you're forcing all the evidence you find into that conclusion whether it fits or not.

All of Canada has waiting list problems. The only provinces that are effectively dealing with those problems are the ones who mnage to reduce the number of people getting public diagnostic tests. Either by allowing private diagnostic tests (BC, Alberta) or by using drugs instead of treatment (Quebec).

Have you even bothered to check provincial waiting list stats, or are you just claiming that conservative governments caused the problems because you'd like it if that were true?

Perhaps not, but it's not an accurate number and you shouldn't quote it like it is.

How many of those years are spent in pain waiting for medical treatment?

And, what reason have you to believe that's caused by healthcare? Americans are fatter than we are - maybe that's why they die earlier. They also have more deaths caused by violent crime. That would also reduce the number. They lose vastly more soldiers in war and training accidents.

Again, look at the big picture. You've jumped to a conclusion and now you're forcing all the evidence you find into that conclusion whether it fits or not.

My aunt was put on a waiting list for pancreatic surgery BEFORE the conservative government came into power.

So, because she and her relatives were able to get the money together, she came down immediately to the US for the operation.

If she had waited the six months the Canadian government told her she would have to wait, she would have died.

Of course, dead, or paid for in the US, it's a great cost saving to the rest of the Canadian taxpayers.

My aunt was put on a waiting list for pancreatic surgery BEFORE the conservative government came into power.
The waiting lists have been there for a long time. It's just that no one started measuring them until about 10 years ago.

And they're entirely predictable. If healthcare is free to the people, they'll consume more of it. This creates scarcity, and there are only so many ways to ration the supply. In the US the supply is rationed by cost - if you can't afford it you can't have it. This is the same way gasoline shortages are prevented in North America. But in Canada the price to the consumer is zero, so their services are rationed through waiting lists.

One of the biggest causes of the growth of waiting lists was the federal Liberal government. When they balanced their budget in the 1990s, rather than cut program spending they slashed their transfer payments to the provinces, and the provinces are the ones responsible for healthcare provision. The the feds got their balanced budget, which made them look good, but all the program spending to pay for it came at the provincial level, so the feds didn't take any of the flak for that.

And some provinces still haven't managed to balance their books as a result. BC still loses money (despite their claims). Ontario runs an annual deficit (despite their claims).

All of Canada has waiting list problems. The only provinces that are effectively dealing with those problems are the ones who mnage to reduce the number of people getting public diagnostic tests. Either by allowing private diagnostic tests (BC, Alberta) or by using drugs instead of treatment (Quebec).

Have you even bothered to check provincial waiting list stats, or are you just claiming that conservative governments caused the problems because you'd like it if that were true?

Perhaps not, but it's not an accurate number and you shouldn't quote it like it is.

How many of those years are spent in pain waiting for medical treatment?

And, what reason have you to believe that's caused by healthcare? Americans are fatter than we are - maybe that's why they die earlier. They also have more deaths caused by violent crime. That would also reduce the number. They lose vastly more soldiers in war and training accidents.

Again, look at the big picture. You've jumped to a conclusion and now you're forcing all the evidence you find into that conclusion whether it fits or not.

I'm on the waiting list for diagnostics and I'm in pain"everyday" but I'm in no danger of dying. So I have no problem waiting my turn while more important cases go before me.

Have the conservative gov caused problems in Alberta? Yes they have, there is more than enough cash to improve the system here and to easily make it the best in the world. The rest of the country does not have the surplus cash alberta does to improve their systems as much as they would like. An aging population all across and the illnesses that come with age is putting a strain on the funding needed, it's not that Universal heath care doesn't work it does. Alberta conservative gov has deliberately starved the provincial health system of cash despite a growing population.

People need to realize that with an aging population we need to pay more. T. C. Douglass the founder of the universal healthcare stated that Universal health care would be expensive but it was worth every cent put into it, you cannot put a price limit on health.

The average age lifespan stat is the all important indicator of any countries health care system, that stat is the bottom line. The USA's military death rate is an insignificant factor when you consider the countries total population. Even the 50,000 dead in Viet Nam is minor in comparison to the total poulation.

The USA's military death rate is an insignificant factor when you consider the countries total population. Even the 50,000 dead in Viet Nam is minor in comparison to the total poulation.
Especially if you figure that took place over 10 years.

We're at a fraction of that death/casualty rate in Iraq.

My aunt was put on a waiting list for pancreatic surgery BEFORE the conservative government came into power.

So, because she and her relatives were able to get the money together, she came down immediately to the US for the operation.

If she had waited the six months the Canadian government told her she would have to wait, she would have died.

Of course, dead, or paid for in the US, it's a great cost saving to the rest of the Canadian taxpayers.ok, but there's no way to prove if she would have died if she stayed in Canada. It's all an opinion, and you can't trust a doc profiting form the surgery to tell you any different because he wants your money.

I can recall another case where a family insisted their son go to the USA for some amazing treatment and wanted the Canadian gov to pay for it. Canadian doc's said it wouldn't work and he would die regardless, American private health doc's said oh yes we can save him with our better technology. The family got it's way, the gov paid for the treatment, the kid went to the US and died just as predictited and the US doc made a nice profit from needless treatment.

ok, but there's no way to prove if she would have died if she stayed in Canada. It's all an opinion, and you can't trust a doc profiting form the surgery to tell you any different because he wants your money.

I can recall another case where a family insisted their son go to the USA for some amazing treatment and wanted the Canadian gov to pay for it. Canadian doc's said it wouldn't work and he would die regardless, American private health doc's said oh yes we can save him with our better technology. The family got it's way, the gov paid for the treatment, the kid went to the US and died just as predictited and the US doc made a nice profit from needless treatment.

The Canadian doctor said she would die before he got to operate on her.

no matter how good a system is regardless of country-people there will always complain it isn't good enough-it's human nature to complain-if your friend lived in Sudan then they would have a medical system to complain about

Ok, she felt that it was overrated and not much better than the British NHS of a few years ago.

The waiting lists have been there for a long time. It's just that no one started measuring them until about 10 years ago.

And they're entirely predictable. If healthcare is free to the people, they'll consume more of it. This creates scarcity, and there are only so many ways to ration the supply. In the US the supply is rationed by cost - if you can't afford it you can't have it. This is the same way gasoline shortages are prevented in North America. But in Canada the price to the consumer is zero, so their services are rationed through waiting lists.

One of the biggest causes of the growth of waiting lists was the federal Liberal government. When they balanced their budget in the 1990s, rather than cut program spending they slashed their transfer payments to the provinces, and the provinces are the ones responsible for healthcare provision. The the feds got their balanced budget, which made them look good, but all the program spending to pay for it came at the provincial level, so the feds didn't take any of the flak for that.

And some provinces still haven't managed to balance their books as a result. BC still loses money (despite their claims). Ontario runs an annual deficit (despite their claims).

Ok so we agree, governments F*** up the healthcare system, just like when they take pride in balancing the budget-it's the people who paid their taxes who deserve the credit. Liberals(Martin) claiming to have balanced the budget with a PC Tax(GST) when the credit should go to the tax payers who paid it(you and me), not the numbskulls who created the deficit(both Liberal and PC).

The Canadian doctor said she would die before he got to operate on her.ok, even if true still a rare occurance.

Watching my fav Dr. program House doctors are allways debating whether to operate or not, is treatment needed or not. It always comes down to a doctors opinion. and dr's are right and wrong on both sides of the border. It's why everyone should get a second or third opinion.

why must it be the duty of the U.S.A. to aid all other countries in the world? in the end, i see only one reason why the U.S.A. gets involved in those countries problems and that is not because of some higher calling or noble cause but because of the influence which quickly turns into control in those areas. sure, it is nice to help "those less fortunate" and that is the first gut fealing but unfortunetly help is only there to reassure the "well off" that they are not like "those less fortunate."

Canadians LIVE ON AVERAGE 2!!! YEARS LONGER THAN AMERICANS-you can ignore and avoid that fact all you want butin the end it's the only one that matters.

Nah it just SEEMS 2 Years longer. You ever have to sit and listen to them talk? ;)

In a nutshell, Canadians have cheaper medicines so Americans buy them there. Americans have superior medical care in terms of surgeries etc and wealthy Canadians go to the US for thier medical treatments when possible. So nationalized healthcare tends to work better for the poor but works much less so for people that could afford to get better if it was available.

ok, but there's no way to prove if she would have died if she stayed in Canada. It's all an opinion, and you can't trust a doc profiting form the surgery to tell you any different because he wants your money.

I can recall another case where a family insisted their son go to the USA for some amazing treatment and wanted the Canadian gov to pay for it. Canadian doc's said it wouldn't work and he would die regardless, American private health doc's said oh yes we can save him with our better technology. The family got it's way, the gov paid for the treatment, the kid went to the US and died just as predictited and the US doc made a nice profit from needless treatment.

Undoubtably there have been several such cases, but if I am recalling the one you are, it was a holistic/alternative/naturalpathy clinic in Mexico. He was a teenager right? He had Cancer?

and the Americans did invent the car, ergo, it's a good thing America did.
The car as we know it, which is to say driven by the internal combustion engine, was invented by a man named Karl Benz in Germany. The engine itself was a derrivitave of a design of a French man named Etiene Lenoir, the first four-cycle engine from Nokolaus Otto.

The first American car in the modern sense rather than steam engines is 1893 by the Duryea brothers, which in 1896 became the first production car, participating in the first closed circuit race in Narragansett Park, Rhode Island.

So you're saying that where the person happens to be makes it that countries invention? By that standard several athletic world records are now held by mexico (though not by mexicans) because they were set in Mexico city. You'd be on stronger ground arguing that Elisha Gray actually invented it.


Who invented the radio is controversial. But most probably a Swede (emigrated to the USA but still a Swede)
Since the USA is a country of immigrants, the yes-what they do here technically becomes something this country did because they did it here, not their 'original' country. If we are to dismiss any work done here by immigrants then the question is more what are Native Americans good at? Or you have to come up with some sort of arbitrary system of determining how long the inventor has been here to consider him or her 'American.' Which is ridiculous.

The athletic scenario doesn't work because they weren't making residence there but competing.

I'm on the waiting list for diagnostics and I'm in pain"everyday" but I'm in no danger of dying. So I have no problem waiting my turn while more important cases go before me.
If wealthy people in line in front of you could buy themselves faster treatment, you'd get treatment faster because the line would be shorter.

Allowing private medicine doesn't actually hurt anyone.
Have the conservative gov caused problems in Alberta? Yes they have, there is more than enough cash to improve the system here and to easily make it the best in the world. The rest of the country does not have the surplus cash alberta does to improve their systems as much as they would like. An aging population all across and the illnesses that come with age is putting a strain on the funding needed, it's not that Universal heath care doesn't work it does. Alberta conservative gov has deliberately starved the provincial health system of cash despite a growing population.
A system that appears free to the users will be abused by those users. That's why it has to be rationed through waiting lists.

I'm not going to say Alberta's government has done only good things. I think they're wasting money hand over fist - they have the highest per capita spending in the country. Sure, they have more money than everyone else, but that's just evidence that taxes are too high (even though they have lower taxes than everyone else, too).

The health funding crunch, as I said, was caused by Chrétien and Martin. There was nothing Ralph could do about that. At the time Alberta was balancing its budget, the price of oil was $12/bbl - they had effectively no money, so they cut everything. Closing underused hospitals made a lot of good financial sense.
People need to realize that with an aging population we need to pay more.
Or we could encourage people to save by not promising them a giant safety net.
T. C. Douglass the founder of the universal healthcare stated that Universal health care would be expensive but it was worth every cent put into it, you cannot put a price limit on health.
It's a limited resource - you have to ration it somehow. Yet another reason I hate Tommy Douglas.
The average age lifespan stat is the all important indicator of any countries health care system, that stat is the bottom line.
Why? Countries with higher proportions if fish in their diet have longer lifespans; that tells me nothing about their healthcare systems.

Belgium - Whatever...
Hey, we matter, damn it! :p


Best thing I can think of would be the fact that Hollywood took over the film-producing role from France. Because what the hell were those movies all about???

Altough I'm waiting for someone to take over the role from Hollywood now(not Bollywood, please!).

Since the USA is a country of immigrants, the yes-what they do here technically becomes something this country did because they did it here, not their 'original' country. If we are to dismiss any work done here by immigrants then the question is more what are Native Americans good at? Or you have to come up with some sort of arbitrary system of determining how long the inventor has been here to consider him or her 'American.' Which is ridiculous.

The athletic scenario doesn't work because they weren't making residence there but competing.
Many athletes reside outside the countries they compete for. Or take actors, the move and reside in places for their work.

There is a difference between people who moved to the country to work and people who've been born there and have ancestors going back there. As far as I can remember Graham Bell was still a Scottish citizen when the telephone was invented though I'm not totally sure, but citizenship seems a reasonable enough way to decide it.

balanced the budget with a PC Tax(GST)
The GST was a revenue-neutral tax. It replaced the 13% Manufacturer's Sales Tax that applied to all manufactured goods when sold to retailers.

Many athletes reside outside the countries they compete for. Or take actors, the move and reside in places for their work.

There is a difference between people who moved to the country to work and people who've been born there and have ancestors going back there. As far as I can remember Graham Bell was still a Scottish citizen when the telephone was invented though I'm not totally sure, but citizenship seems a reasonable enough way to decide it.
If they have to move to a place to do the work than it's reasonable to assume that the place itself is responsable for enabling the work. And since we're asking about the virtues of a place...

Many athletes reside outside the countries they compete for. Or take actors, the move and reside in places for their work.

There is a difference between people who moved to the country to work and people who've been born there and have ancestors going back there. As far as I can remember Graham Bell was still a Scottish citizen when the telephone was invented though I'm not totally sure, but citizenship seems a reasonable enough way to decide it.
Canada often claims Alexander Graham Bell. We're taught in school that the telephone is a Canadian invention.

But it's simply not true. Bell was a Scotsman, and he convalesced in Canada for 2 years before moving to Boston where he invented the telephone. So he didn't do any work here, and he wasn't from here. He just stopped by on the way somewhere else, and somehow that makes his work Canadian? That's absurd.

If they have to move to a place to do the work than it's reasonable to assume that the place itself is responsable for enabling the work. And since we're asking about the virtues of a place...

But we cannot make the assumption that they "had" to without proof. If it's merely that they wanted to because of lifestyle reasons etc...

why must it be the duty of the U.S.A. to aid all other countries in the world? in the end, i see only one reason why the U.S.A. gets involved in those countries problems and that is not because of some higher calling or noble cause but because of the influence which quickly turns into control in those areas. sure, it is nice to help "those less fortunate" and that is the first gut fealing but unfortunetly help is only there to reassure the "well off" that they are not like "those less fortunate."

Or maybe it's because we get so much inside and outside pressure to donate that we do, then get critisized on our intentions of doing so, yet NOT donating would've made us evil still.

Ever hear of 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't"?

I've been to a few other countries, as well as talked to quite a few people in other nations, and I'd have to say that the USA is just fine for me. If you don't like it, too bad.

But we cannot make the assumption that they "had" to without proof. If it's merely that they wanted to because of lifestyle reasons etc...

Ugh. Whatever dude, this really doesn't matter to me enough to chase your tail about it...

Ugh. Whatever dude, this really doesn't matter to me enough to chase your tail about it...

The fact that the US is one of the biggest destinations for immigrants isn't proof enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States#Immigration_summary_1830_to_2000

Hmmmm...

Or maybe it's because we get so much inside and outside pressure to donate that we do, then get critisized on our intentions of doing so, yet NOT donating would've made us evil still.

Ever hear of 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't"?

I've been to a few other countries, as well as talked to quite a few people in other nations, and I'd have to say that the USA is just fine for me. If you don't like it, too bad.

The same reason that rich people pay taxes to subsidise poor people, an idea of social and global responsibility to help your fellow man.

The fact that the US is one of the biggest destinations for immigrants isn't proof enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States#Immigration_summary_1830_to_2000

Hmmmm...

It's long easily crossable borders and an already established illegal immigrant community wouldn't have anything to do with that?

The fact that the US is one of the biggest destinations for immigrants isn't proof enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States#Immigration_summary_1830_to_2000

Hmmmm...

Why are you quoting me for that?

I'm curious. Just talked to a guy who just came over from the UK (he is a master plumber, and working on my refrigerator's icemaker), and he said that his brother is making a LOT of money selling medical insurance.

And I said, "I thought the NHS took care of everything" and he said, "not to believe what the government puts out".

Apparently, people who want real health care, and are tired of waiting, or being told "No" can pay for additional insurance.

Case in point, his brother. Apparently, he had a hernia, and the doctors refused to operate on it. It eventually strangulated, and he had an emergecy operation under NHS - removing 80 percent of his bowels.

Now he has to have a special diet, and wears a colostomy bag. It turned him into a medical insurance salesman, because he wants to get back at the NHS if it takes him the rest of his life.

If you think about the founding of the United States, its actually kind of funny. A small group of Englishmen decide to leave the most powerful nation on earth to form their new nation, based on things they've read. It's a lot of hubris. At the same time, the United States was really the first nation to decide at once it would have a democratic government based on the wants and needs of the people. Plenty of other nations got to that point (England, to a degree ancient Greece and Rome) but the United States showed the world all you needed to create a new country was a group of smart people and an ocean between you and the nearest superpower. Ignoring American culture, the hubris we continue to have and the mistakes we've made, the fact we were the first created for the good of the citizens makes the United States very good.
Of course, slavery continued, and racial discrimination after that, and people are right in saying the poor are not treated particularly well (the fact the poor have it pretty good is more an indication on how amazingly rich the US is, not how successfully it fights poverty). But the founders recognized they were flawed, and so allowed the American government to be one that progresses, even if they themselves were not in favor of certain progresses.
Finally, much of the animosity toward America would not exist if it were fairly small and not hugely powerful. But because it is a superpower, everything the US is magnified, the good and the bad.

Canada often claims Alexander Graham Bell. We're taught in school that the telephone is a Canadian invention.

But it's simply not true. Bell was a Scotsman, and he convalesced in Canada for 2 years before moving to Boston where he invented the telephone. So he didn't do any work here, and he wasn't from here. He just stopped by on the way somewhere else, and somehow that makes his work Canadian? That's absurd.

I did a web search and came up with some interesteing facts,the phone was actually invented by a one time lab partner of Bell's Antonio Meucci , Meucci apparently didn't have the money for a patent. Bell took the idea, developed and patented it. No doubt Bell would dispute that.

When Bell was credited with the invention of the phone he was still a Scot, became a US citizen later, in 1882.

He did research work in Canada as well, developed his own airplane in 1909 and set a water speed record with the Hrydrofoil in Canada as well.

Considered Canada his home and along with his wife was buried there.

The US invented Doritos.

The US invented Doritos.

They call them Cool American Doritos. :cool:

America is good at making its poor suffer.

and feeding the world,making alliances with the like s of european weenies..i mean the french...or..nevermind...your all the same now.

or liberating the european mainland from hitler/stalin..lol...how soon we forget.

the brits have turned kinda french imho...as they let their gov dicvtate their daily life...boo hooo for you...

someday the brits will tell their kids..i remember when we were free...

It's long easily crossable borders and an already established illegal immigrant community wouldn't have anything to do with that?

Why do they want to be here in the first place? Especially illegally? Our scenic views?

American beer is bad, Elisha Cuthbert is hot but shes Canadian

It's good at harming it's own citizens.

Why do they want to be here in the first place? Especially illegally? Our scenic views?

Because there's a lot of Americans prepared to break the law and employ them

American beer is bad, Elisha Cuthbert is hot but shes Canadian

American beer is not that bad if you steer clear of the macro-brews.
Magic Hat #9, Hammer & Nail, Sam Adams, Anchor Steam and dozens of other good beers are to be had.

According to Ratebeer.com, these are the 50 best brews in America:

1 Three Floyds Dark Lord Russian Imperial Stout
2 AleSmith Barrel Aged Speedway Stout
3 Three Floyds Oak Aged Dark Lord Russian Imperial Stout
4 AleSmith Speedway Stout
5 Great Lakes Barrel-Aged Blackout Stout
6 Bells Expedition Stout
7 Three Floyds Dreadnaught Imperial IPA
8 Kuhnhenn Raspberry Eisbock
9 Livery Bourbon Cask Aged Wheat Trippelbock
10 Stone Imperial Russian Stout
11 Dogfish Head World Wide Stout 2001/2003-Present (18%)
12 AleSmith YuleSmith (Winter) Imperial Red Ale
13 AleSmith Barrel Aged Old Numbskull
14 AleSmith YuleSmith (Summer) India Pale Ale
15 Oggis Hop Whompus
16 Free State Owd Macs Imperial
17 Southampton Imperial Russian Stout
18 Founders Breakfast Stout
19 Thirsty Dog Siberian Night Imperial Stout
20 New Glarus Belgian Red
21 Fitgers Edmund Imperial Stout (Bourbon Barrel)
22 Russian River Beatification
23 Flossmoor Station Imperial Eclipse Stout
24 Barley Johns The Dark Knight (Returns)
25 Pizza Port Frank Double IPA
26 Great Divide Oak Aged Yeti Imperial Stout
27 Victory Storm King Imperial Stout
28 Drakes Jolly Rodger (2005)
29 Goose Island Bourbon County Stout
30 Russian River Pliny the Younger
32 Three Floyds Behemoth Barleywine
33 Town Hall Czar Jack Imperial Stout
34 Victory Old Horizontal
35 North Coast Old Rasputin Russian Imperial Stout
36 Double Bastard Ale
37 Valley Brew Uberhoppy IPA
38 Avery Mephistopheles Stout
39 Hair of the Dog Adam
40 Bells Kalamazoo Stout
41 AleSmith Barrel Aged Wee Heavy
42 Jolly Pumpkin Luciernaga (The Firefly) - Grande Reserve
43 AleSmith J.P. Grays Wee Heavy Scotch Ale
44 AleSmith IPA
45 Pizza Port Cuvee de Tomme
46 Drakes Barley Wine Brandy Barrel
47 Bells Batch 7000 Ale
48 AleSmith Old Numbskull
49 Great Divide Yeti Imperial Stout
50 Great Divide Hercules Double IPA

How many of these have you heard of, nevermind tried?

I've tried several of the Three Floyd's beers and they're exceptional. *nod*

According to Ratebeer.com, these are the 50 best brews in America:

<snip for brevity>
How many of these have you heard of, nevermind tried?

I've tried several of the Three Floyd's beers and they're exceptional. *nod*

I've had: 18, 35, 36, and 44.
I don't think most of these are available in the New York/Connecticut area.

I've had: 18, 35, 36, and 44.
I don't think most of these are available in the New York/Connecticut area.

I don't recall ever seeing them here. Then again, I have only heard of about a dozen of them, and I considered myself widely versed on the subject.

Funny thing is, my favorite beer is one called Dixie Blackened Voodoo Lager.

To put it in perspective: None of the beers above scored lower than a 99. Dixie Lager scored a 42 ( :eek: 42!!! :eek: ). Budweiser scored a 1. :p

I don't recall ever seeing them here. Then again, I have only heard of about a dozen of them, and I considered myself widely versed on the subject.

Funny thing is, my favorite beer is one called Dixie Blackened Voodoo Lager.

To put it in perspective: None of the beers above scored lower than a 99. Dixie Lager scored a 42 ( :eek: 42!!! :eek: ). Budweiser scored a 1. :p

One of my other favs: Pete's Wicked Oktoberfest merely rated a 54!

Mystery Stout for the win. A pretty accurate review:

Yes, I did buy one of these. No. 120 of 500. Bottled on 4-20-06? Hmm. Why can't I remember that day? Anyway, the pour revealed a rather thin looking liquid that cascaded into my jumbo pint and promoted a gigantic tan head. Steadfast, my friends. I was nearly overwhelmed by foam whilst trying to obtain my first sip. Sturdy. The liquid of course was mega brown colour that makes one say black at first.

The nose smells largely fruited and booze riddled.. The first thing that came to mind was red koolaid and chocolate or better yet cocoa. There is a cakey odour as well. Coffee cake in a sense. I would even say that the molasses the label speaks of is detectable in the nose. It gives its sticky, raw, sweetness to the character. I smell some herbal hop tingles over all of the malty richness. Almost minty in nature. It is surprisingly quite fresh still as I had failed to realize how old this thing was getting in the reefer.

The flavour profile is quite nicely done. A wave of creamy whipped cocoa comes across in the initial moments and blends into a dry finish with a lingering sweetness. This battle fades out into a dark fruit skin type of schema. The smell of this thing is so pungent as I dive in for a sip. Raw and malty and vegetal. This baby is no lightweight. Heavy tones.

Although this thing appeared to be thin off the pour, the body feels pretty thick and hearty whilst in my mouth. It is creamy and fluffy feeling. Nice.

Drinkability suffers due to the utter brute force of this. It is good, but there is so much going on in there that it ends up walking the line. This is tough to whack down all by my lonesome in August, but fret not I will get by. I will survive.

For the record, I had bottle #137. My buddy and I got drunk off our asses from this beast. Also, seems mine was darker, perhaps because I drank mine in May, while the reviewer had his in August. Anyway, as my buddy's wife put it: "It denies the light!"

Made in Michigan. God Bless America.

After reading numerous posts, I was inspired to write a New Topic. There seems to be a lot of focus on everything bad about America and the current adminstration so after reading all of the negativity I was inspired to write something in hopes of getting positive feed back. Is America really that bad? What is good about having America in todays world?

Without America, International Talk Like a Pirate Day (that's the 19th ie Tuesday) would never have been created. But since that it's already spread, we only keep them around to dub anime, make Family Guy and host all the important webpages I guess.

Hot Pockets!