NationStates Jolt Archive

Sooo i think I may have had a bash at this before, but maybe not.

I have been thinking about the nature of insults.

If somebody says something derogatory about ohh err umm lets just say you faith (for example;) ) and you find your self getting angry and being insulted.

Are you taking offence, or have you been offend, by what has been said?

I mean of course, when it comes to being insulted, is it the fault of the insulter, or can you choose not to be insulted, and thus it is up to you?

If someone wants to be so juvenile as to actually insult me I can choose not to be offended myself. The insulter is obviously a small minded person.

if a person is attempting to put you in a bad mood, thiers.

I put the blame firmly on myself. If I am insulted by anothers words, then that is my problem, I can if I have the strength of will just shrug it off.

It's a nice point, really. One should be big enough to shrug off an insult, but there are insults that sometimes cannot be shrugged off. For instance, on a light level, I allow only myself and people who actually grew up in New Jersey to make jokes about the place (Why does NJ have more toxic waste sites and California more lawyers? NJ got to choose first). I find myself insulted by people who imply or say that I am unpatriotic because I think the Bush Administration is doing a bad job of running the country. And some days I am touchier than on other days.

depends on the insult and who’s saying it

I honestly cannot think of a time when I've felt insulted. People have tried to make me feel insulted, but I'm incredibly adept at brushing them off without a second thought.

As a kid, from as far back as I can remember, I was insulted a lot because I was the minority in my area, because I wore glasses, because I was ultra skinny, because my family was one of the poorer ones, because my mom had the most aweful taste in clothing ever...

Lets face it, kids are cruel and there was a lot they could find about me to make fun of.

And my grandmother (when drunk - which was often) telling me that I was worthless and was going to grow up just like my loser father (whom I never knew and left my mother when I was 1) and be living on the streets or in jail, never to amount to anything.

It really made me distrust and dislike people in general and it took me a while to get over it - and in fact I still have a hard time with it once in a while. I fully understand that I should not let what others say affect me and am able to dish out the jokes (as we often do with our buddies) with friends and take it quite often but sometimes when someone will make a joke about me, I'll understand it's in jest but still get angry and defensive.

Or when someone is just plain hateful, I can usually brush it off like it was nothing but sometimes I just get filled with anger and want to lash out at them.

I see nothing wrong with getting insulted. Feeling insulted does not mean you are weak-willed. If you have strong beliefs, you should defend them.

A bit of both, really. If someone is trying to make you feel insulted, and you choose to be insulted, then it is both your fault and the insulter's.

If they do not mean to insult, and you feel insulted, whose fault is that?

Generally when someone makes an effort to be insulting personally, I blow it off if for no other reason than it deprives them of the satisfaction.

There are times though when I get frustrated. I get frustrated when I see people disregard common courtesy and diplomacy because they themselves are too clueless to realize what they're doing. An example:

To many, many people Jesus Christ isn't just a religious icon or some guy that ran around Judea 2,000 years ago. There are people who truly devote themselves and their life to Him, and who sincerely feel it in their hearts. I would think that any person who doesn't believe would at least have the common decency to steer clear of saying abusive or nasty things about Him, if for no other reason than simple courtesy.

Sadly, that's beyond a lot of people, and when I see it I do feel some outrage. Not insulted, precisely, since I don't care what anyone else believes... But it just seems to destroy the intellectual atmosphere when that sort of thing springs up.

Sooo i think I may have had a bash at this before, but maybe not.

I have been thinking about the nature of insults.

If somebody says something derogatory about ohh err umm lets just say you faith (for example;) ) and you find your self getting angry and being insulted.

Are you taking offence, or have you been offend, by what has been said?

I mean of course, when it comes to being insulted, is it the fault of the insulter, or can you choose not to be insulted, and thus it is up to you?
It is possible for somebody to say something that is (generally speaking) insulting, but for you (personally) to not be insulted.

Example: somebody could say "I think all homosexuals are scum." It is clearly an insult to refer to certain people as "scum." However, you may not feel that this is personally insulting to YOU. You may not be the least bit insulted. You might even agree.

Alternatively, it is quite possible for you to feel insulted by something that is not (generally speaking) an insult.

An example of this would be how Bill O'Reilly feels that he is being personally insulted if Macy's doesn't put up Merry Christmas signs, or when store employees say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas." "Happy Holidays" is not an insult, yet it is possible for somebody to feel insulted or offended if somebody wishes them "Happy Holidays."

I blame society for me feeling insulted it is because of societal norms on what amounts to an insult that we feel insulted

It is possible for somebody to say something that is (generally speaking) insulting, but for you (personally) to not be insulted.

Example: somebody could say "I think all homosexuals are scum." It is clearly an insult to refer to certain people as "scum." However, you may not feel that this is personally insulting to YOU. You may not be the least bit insulted. You might even agree.

Alternatively, it is quite possible for you to feel insulted by something that is not (generally speaking) an insult.

An example of this would be how Bill O'Reilly feels that he is being personally insulted if Macy's doesn't put up Merry Christmas signs, or when store employees say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas." "Happy Holidays" is not an insult, yet it is possible for somebody to feel insulted or offended if somebody wishes them "Happy Holidays."

Agreed.

(This is starting to scare me....3 threads in a row I find myself in agreement with Bottle)

But I'd say that Bill and whomever else are being a bit irrational.

I'm not Jewish but if someone wishes me a Happy Haunakah I'd say "Thanks! You too!"

I'm not gay but if a gay man told me I was hot (yeah, right) I'd say "Thanks!"

I'm not a woman but if someone said to me "Nice boobs!" I'd say... hmm... nevermind... (ouchie)

'cause in this life kind words seem to be getting rarer and rarer... why get riled up when someone tosses one your way?

Damnit ... this thread needs yo mama jokes.

There are times though when I get frustrated. I get frustrated when I see people disregard common courtesy and diplomacy because they themselves are too clueless to realize what they're doing. An example:

To many, many people Jesus Christ isn't just a religious icon or some guy that ran around Judea 2,000 years ago. There are people who truly devote themselves and their life to Him, and who sincerely feel it in their hearts. I would think that any person who doesn't believe would at least have the common decency to steer clear of saying abusive or nasty things about Him, if for no other reason than simple courtesy.
I wish there were a way for me to make this point without being a total wanker, but I don't think there is...

There are people in this world who have devoted themselves to Adolf Hitler, many with devotion that far surpasses the levels expressed by the average religious Joe. There are people who committed their lives to the teachings and values espoused by Stalin, and with no less committment or veneration than is shown by many of the followers of Christ.

***DISCLAIMER FOR ANYBODY WHO IS GEARING UP THEIR FLAMETHROWER: I am not in ANY WAY attempting to equate Jesus with Hitler or Stalin. I am trying to make the point that some things deserve to be insulted regardless of how strongly other people believe in them, so strength of belief (or believers' hurt feelings) is not a convincing argument by itself.***

If "courtesy" means that I have to pretend like Hitler was a super guy in order to avoid hurting the feelings of some racists, then courtesy seems like a brand of bullshit I want nothing to do with. And if I don't have to show this kind of "courtesy" to racists, why should I be expected to show it to the superstitious? Or anybody else, for that matter?

...
If "courtesy" means that I have to pretend like Hitler was a super guy in order to avoid hurting the feelings of some racists, then courtesy seems like a brand of bullshit I want nothing to do with. And if I don't have to show this kind of "courtesy" to racists, why should I be expected to show it to the superstitious? Or anybody else, for that matter?

Well a couple things...

I don't mean to suggest that to be courteous to a Christian that you might disagree with that you somehow have to talk like a Christian.

If I were debating the historical status of Joseph Stalin with someone who just venerated him to pieces, if I wanted to keep the discussion civil and intellectual, I could point out the historical facts without going over the top on how evil and insane he was. Not paying lip service, mind you... Maybe an example is in order:

I could say

"Well my understanding of Stalin was that his policy of internal redistribution of wealth led directly to the death of 10,000,000 Soviet citizens by starvation."

which is much more apropriate than

"Well at least I'm not out there propping up some nutjob, who by the way murdered ten million people, that was so unstable even Lenin kept him at arm's length..."

Maybe my example there is weak but hopefully I got my point across.

you can always choose your reaction.



most of the time however we don't make the best choice.

you can always choose your reaction.

True, you can choose how you react, but you can't always control how you feel.

I think it is interesting to ask how much responsibility we put on the insult-er and the insult-ee. I mean, there are some situations where we can all agree that somebody is totally within their rights for feeling insulted, and the insult-er was totally out of line.

Example: Jill decides, for no reason whatsoever, to tell Bill that he is the scum of the Earth. I think it would be generally agreed that Bill isn't doing anything wrong if he is insulted by this. Most people would agree that Jill is out of line, while Bill is not.

However, there are other situations where people don't always agree on when somebody "deserves" to feel insulted.

Our own forum rules seem to reflect this. There are cases where the mods rule that somebody was totally out of line for saying something that is insulting, and that person bears the responsibility for having insulted others. There are other cases where the mods rule that the person making the insult was not at fault, and the person feeling insulted needs to chill the hell out.

True, you can choose how you react, but you can't always control how you feel.
to a certain degree, I can control how I feel. I choose to examine my feelings and "throw out" the ones that aren't productive, my first inclinations though, they seem to come on their own, I have to choose not to react based on my flighty emotions.

*gives finger to everybody*

Suck on this, padre!


what the hell is plural for padre?

*gives finger to everybody*

Suck on this, padre!


what the hell is plural for padre?

:rolleyes: "Padres"

:rolleyes: "Padres"

Really? ...yep...

Latin changes the words in a weird way to make plurals...

you can always choose your reaction.



most of the time however we don't make the best choice.

That depends upon whether the old adrenal glands etc kick in or not. If someone I already depised insulted me in a public setting I might conciously choose to be appear cool calm collected and unflappable but if fight or flight kicks in my jaw will and abdomen will become tense my face might flush, time will appear to slow down, my blood pressure and body temp will rise my pupils will dilate and I will blink only very occassionally. After a few moments if I dont walk or fidget or something my thigh muscles will start to twitch and then to tremble. No matter that I do my best to choose that none of these things occur. I dont have to fight or run while Im in that state (God help the insulter if he does anything which I mistake for the beginings of him moving to physically make contact with me though!) but I also cannot just stand there with no outward signs that I was affected.

I think it's more the insulter than the insultee. Half the time, no matter how much you hate to admit it, you're offended when someone calls you a certain word, but it's how you choose to react. Sadly I chose ignoring it 100% of the time rather than telling an adult, and now I don't have a lot of self esteem. People make fun of my acne ALL THE TIME and i've been battling it since I was nine. But I ignore it, which isn't always a good idea because then I get picked on more for being stupid. :rolleyes: Thank God I'm now out of middle school. It should be illegal. :upyours:

I think it's more the insulter than the insultee. Half the time, no matter how much you hate to admit it, you're offended when someone calls you a certain word, but it's how you choose to react. Sadly I chose ignoring it 100% of the time rather than telling an adult, and now I don't have a lot of self esteem. People make fun of my acne ALL THE TIME and i've been battling it since I was nine. But I ignore it, which isn't always a good idea because then I get picked on more for being stupid. :rolleyes: Thank God I'm now out of middle school. It should be illegal. :upyours:

You're right, Pancake, middle school should be illegal ... no, wait, that's not ... What you're talking about are not insults, they're just plain adolescent meanness. Luckily, I think you'll find that it diminishes as you get older. People do grow up, many of them, and as time passes you'll find it easier to recognize the ones who didn't. As for you yourself, kiddo, I think you're pretty cool. :cool:

I see nothing wrong with getting insulted. Feeling insulted does not mean you are weak-willed. If you have strong beliefs, you should defend them.

Yeah but that's not waht I was talking about really. I want to know when we feel insulted is it our fault, or is it the insulters fault?

I wish there were a way for me to make this point without being a total wanker, but I don't think there is...

There are people in this world who have devoted themselves to Adolf Hitler, many with devotion that far surpasses the levels expressed by the average religious Joe. There are people who committed their lives to the teachings and values espoused by Stalin, and with no less committment or veneration than is shown by many of the followers of Christ.

***DISCLAIMER FOR ANYBODY WHO IS GEARING UP THEIR FLAMETHROWER: I am not in ANY WAY attempting to equate Jesus with Hitler or Stalin. I am trying to make the point that some things deserve to be insulted regardless of how strongly other people believe in them, so strength of belief (or believers' hurt feelings) is not a convincing argument by itself.***

If "courtesy" means that I have to pretend like Hitler was a super guy in order to avoid hurting the feelings of some racists, then courtesy seems like a brand of bullshit I want nothing to do with. And if I don't have to show this kind of "courtesy" to racists, why should I be expected to show it to the superstitious? Or anybody else, for that matter?



I thimk bootle that you have hit the nail on the head. I'm all for common curtesy, and I'd like to think that I don't go around upsetting people on porpuse(except those that I do) but some people and some modes of thought don't deserve any holding of the tongue, heh at least thats what my subjective pov tells me.

you can always choose your reaction.



most of the time however we don't make the best choice.


Ahhh thank you, that's is what I tend to think. So insult to aahh umm err ohhh lets just say a religous prophet, in the form of ohh I dunno, umm how about cartoons, could either be ignored, or not.

In the case of the former, then all's well that ends well and teh World is peacgull place, and in the case of the latter, the voilence is not justified because, they could have easily ignored it.

I think it's more the insulter than the insultee. Half the time, no matter how much you hate to admit it, you're offended when someone calls you a certain word, but it's how you choose to react. Sadly I chose ignoring it 100% of the time rather than telling an adult, and now I don't have a lot of self esteem. People make fun of my acne ALL THE TIME and i've been battling it since I was nine. But I ignore it, which isn't always a good idea because then I get picked on more for being stupid. :rolleyes: Thank God I'm now out of middle school. It should be illegal. :upyours:

I was harsh on you a few weeks back. I mention that here, in a dead thread, because it occurs to me that sometimes the insulter does nothing more than make themselves look completely stupid and mean. Only, maybe the person they meant to insult didn't take it that way.
A hearty chorus of mocking laughter is probably more appropriate, than the more usual response, timid silence while we all see if the target has taken offence. Then more timidity, just in case they did but aren't saying anything.

Deliberately trying to hurt someone else's feelings is small and unenviable. Perhaps even laughing at that is cruel, since hitting out at others is usually a sign of fear and suffering in the one who hits out. But silence is the worst: silence means whatever you want it to mean, and it's completely uninformative. To the egotistical, silence means respect and lack of a comeback; but to the insecure, silence is censure and embarassment at what they said. Silence probably has other meanings, who would know?
A friend of mine, half my age, says "dot dot dot" when she can't think of an answer. It sounds silly, but it's still better than silence.