NationStates Jolt Archive

This video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=lwWP-N1HqT0) done by professors at Princeton university shows you how to hack into diebold voting machines. It does not cover how to program the memory card but their are a lot of creative computer programmers who could easily figure it out.

This video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=lwWP-N1HqT0) done by professors at Princeton university shows you how to hack into diebold voting machines. It does not cover how to program the memory card but their are a lot of creative computer programmers who could easily figure it out.

Why bother, Diebold will do it for you if you contribute to the RNC. :p

That's not the same machine I certified, nor did it make use of the same lock as what the video showed.

Why bother, Diebold will do it for you if you contribute to the RNC. :p

Ha no kidding voters do not matter its the people who count them that matter.

They convinced me that given the time, access, and source code, a programmer could write an alternative program that flips votes. They haven't convinced me that anyone can exploit software in actual machines.

expert testimony (http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~appel/nj-voting-case/)

Welcome to democracy! Weee!!!!1111 :)

There are multiple flaws with the tests that were run, for example, it's ignoring the fact that the voting machines are kept in secure facilities at county boards of elections. For example, in Stark County, where I was employed, the machines are kept in a rather large bank vault until election day. You'd have to be able to physically access the voting machines to be able to infect them with the virus.

The flaws are no greater than any that a paper-only voting system would fall victim to.

Ha no kidding voters do not matter its the people who count them that matter.

Which happen to be the bipartisan county boards of elections.

There are multiple flaws with the tests that were run, for example, it's ignoring the fact that the voting machines are kept in secure facilities at county boards of elections. For example, in Stark County, where I was employed, the machines are kept in a rather large bank vault until election day. You'd have to be able to physically access the voting machines to be able to infect them with the virus.

The flaws are no greater than any that a paper-only voting system would fall victim to.

We do not need to get into conspiracy theories, but we will all agree that having voting machines without the proper checks and balances is dangerous and could cost you the democracy...

There are multiple flaws with the tests that were run, for example, it's ignoring the fact that the voting machines are kept in secure facilities at county boards of elections. For example, in Stark County, where I was employed, the machines are kept in a rather large bank vault until election day. You'd have to be able to physically access the voting machines to be able to infect them with the virus.

The flaws are no greater than any that a paper-only voting system would fall victim to.

I'm glad to hear that, especially in Ohio, where the Diebold CEO made those encouraging statements about doing everything in his power to deliver Ohio for Bush in '04. I guess the fear ... ah, it is an age of fear these days, isn't it? the fear is that the government will do the hacking, not some nerdy hackers.

There are multiple flaws with the tests that were run, for example, it's ignoring the fact that the voting machines are kept in secure facilities at county boards of elections. For example, in Stark County, where I was employed, the machines are kept in a rather large bank vault until election day. You'd have to be able to physically access the voting machines to be able to infect them with the virus.

The flaws are no greater than any that a paper-only voting system would fall victim to.
You do not think the incumbent politicians would be able to get someone in that facilitie it only takes one machine to set up the election the way you want it.

You do not think the incumbent politicians would be able to get someone in that facilitie it only takes one machine to set up the election the way you want it.

It takes two keys to open the vault. One of them in the hands of the Republican Director, and the other in the hands of the Democrat. That's how the law states.

Which happen to be the bipartisan county boards of elections.
Its a lot harder to fake tens of thousands of actual votes then it is to fake one computer printout.

I'm glad to hear that, especially in Ohio, where the Diebold CEO made those encouraging statements about doing everything in his power to deliver Ohio for Bush in '04. I guess the fear ... ah, it is an age of fear these days, isn't it? the fear is that the government will do the hacking, not some nerdy hackers.
Statements that were clearly taken out of context.

Its a lot harder to fake tens of thousands of actual votes then it is to fake one computer printout.

What about the individual computer printouts that accompany each vote?

It takes two keys to open the vault. One of them in the hands of the Republican Director, and the other in the hands of the Democrat. That's how the law states.
And all vaults are fool proof thats why banks never get robbed.

Statements that were clearly taken out of context.

Were they? That's good to hear. Congrats on the nice even-number post, by the way.

We do not need to get into conspiracy theories, but we will all agree that having voting machines without the proper checks and balances is dangerous and could cost you the democracy...

And there's solid physical security protecting these machines. I know, I tried to get into the vault once, because we forget to stick one of the printer hoods with its machine, and it took a solid half hour to track everyone down who was required to open the doors.

And all vaults are fool proof thats why banks never get robbed.

Go get your tinfoil hat.

You don't really need to hack at all. My fiance showed that all you have to do is hit the card with ESD, and you get full admin rights to the computer.

By the way, despite this practice being completely and utterly illegal, Diebold computers keep records of social security numbers matched to their votes. It would thus be theoretically possible for politicians to "check up" on citizens to see if they are voting the "right" way.

Statements that were clearly taken out of context.

He should never had made the statement in any context. The mere appearance of impropriety is a blow to the democratic system.

This video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=lwWP-N1HqT0) done by professors at Princeton university shows you how to hack into diebold voting machines. It does not cover how to program the memory card but their are a lot of creative computer programmers who could easily figure it out.

Hugo Chávez is an expert about cheating with automatic machines. I'm pretty sure he's really interested in said video, and that he will try to test several of those "tecniques" in the elections of next december.

It takes two keys to open the vault. One of them in the hands of the Republican Director, and the other in the hands of the Democrat. That's how the law states.

For this to be flawless, one would have to trust the Democrat. Considering that Bush's victory could easily be beneficial towards the Democratic party, I couldn't do that.

I'm not saying that I believe that there was a conspiracy to hack the machines to make Bush win. I'm just saying that I don't trust the officials to not do that.

That's not the same machine I certified, nor did it make use of the same lock as what the video showed.

Looks exactly like the one I voted on in the primaries this year.

Were they? That's good to hear. Congrats on the nice even-number post, by the way.

Yep. He was talking about how he'd be doing his best to help campaign with Bush, and get out as many votes as he could, and all of the traditional things. For example, the week after those statements were made, he signed invitations to a $1000 a plate fundraiser. He was active in the campaign.

Statements that were clearly taken out of context.

Out of sheer curiousity, what was the context? I honestly can't think of any context in which that could possibly not be horrible.

What about the individual computer printouts that accompany each vote?
Have they ever had people come back with their printouts and count the printouts before. I have never heard of it happening most people throw them away or lose them. If they did count them they would maybe get 50% of the vote.

Looks exactly like the one I voted on in the primaries this year.

The machines I certified were two part, there was the base, which was pretty much a power unit, with a backup battery, but the entirety of the computer components were contained in the screen unit itself. In fact, you could detach the screen unit from the power base and have it operate independently for a full hour. A very useful factor when aiding the elderly at nursing homes.

Have they ever had people come back with their printouts and count the printouts before. I have never heard of it happening most people throw them away or lose them. If they did count them they would maybe get 50% of the vote.

The printouts are not given to the voters. The voter cannot even touch them (though they can see them behind a glass window). They are rolled into a ballot-box type thing attached to the machine.

Out of sheer curiousity, what was the context? I honestly can't think of any context in which that could possibly not be horrible.

That he was working with the Bush campaign with fundraising. Obviously. Or is it evil to help out the candidate you support?

My objection to electronic voting machines, besides possible vulnerability to tampering, is that they're not as much fun as the big mechanical ones in use when I was first old enough to vote. Those didn't sound like bad video games. They had switches you moved to indicate your votes and when you were done, you hauled on this big lever that made an audible thunk and opened the curtains. You knew you'd done something!

Go get your tinfoil hat.

I have my tinfoil hat (http://youtube.com/watch?v=24cVb_ppFx8) on. I think you underestimate what people will do to achieve power. There is no such thing a fool proof system. These machines however only need one machine hacked to change the entire election.

He should never had made the statement in any context. The mere appearance of impropriety is a blow to the democratic system.

Of course it was stupid to make that statement, I'm not contesting that, but to say that he's behind some grand conspiracy to destroy democracy is beyond words.

My objection to electronic voting machines, besides possible vulnerability to tampering, is that they're not as much fun as the big mechanical ones in use when I was first old enough to vote. Those didn't sound like bad video games. They had switches you moved to indicate your votes and when you were done, you hauled on this big lever that made an audible thunk and opened the curtains. You knew you'd done something!

Hey, you can't play oregon trail on the big mechanical ones!

That he was working with the Bush campaign with fundraising. Obviously. Or is it evil to help out the candidate you support?

The statement itself still doesn't work in context.

The printouts are not given to the voters. The voter cannot even touch them (though they can see them behind a glass window). They are rolled into a ballot-box type thing attached to the machine.

Most states still don't even have printouts - that's the problem. The ESD experiment my fiance conducted was an attempt to argue in favor of having a printer added to the machines - to ensure that votes weren't lost (not even talking about malicious software here). What he found was that hitting the card with ESD (which could happen quite easily) not only erased the information on the card, but also gave him full admin rights to the computer when he inserted it into the machine.

And yet, even after seeing this, the legislature in my state voted that the machines were perfectly fine without any type of printer - that a printer would be too expensive.

Most states still don't even have printouts - that's the problem. The ESD experiment my fiance conducted was an attempt to argue in favor of having a printer added to the machines - to ensure that votes weren't lost (not even talking about malicious software here). What he found was that hitting the card with ESD (which could happen quite easily) not only erased the information on the card, but also gave him full admin rights to the computer when he inserted it into the machine.

And yet, even after seeing this, the legislature in my state voted that the machines were perfectly fine without any type of printer - that a printer would be too expensive.

Actually the legislature voted not to purchase the hood, twice. The printer is already in the machine.

In Ohio, they purchased the machines without the hoods, and then, after they did that, and received all of the machines, they went and purchased the hoods, which would have been discounted had they been purchased with the machines.

I know these damnable machines, I've dithered away hundreds of hours of my life with them (at $7.80 and hour, booyah!). I know their weaknesses and their flaws. I've plumbed their inner depths, and I know the physical security that surrounds them in the state of Ohio. They're damn safe.

Actually the legislature voted not to purchase the hood, twice. The printer is already in the machine.

Obviously not, considering that the whole debate was on whether or not to have Diebold add printers. Part of the problem was that Diebold was claiming that adding printers would be cost-prohibitive. There was no printout on the machine I used in the primareis a couple of months ago.

I know these damnable machines, I've dithered away hundreds of hours of my life with them (at $7.80 and hour, booyah!). I know their weaknesses and their flaws. I've plumbed their inner depths, and I know the physical security that surrounds them in the state of Ohio. They're damn safe.
You may think so but for now I will take Princeton Universtities word over yours.

I know these damnable machines, I've dithered away hundreds of hours of my life with them (at $7.80 and hour, booyah!). I know their weaknesses and their flaws. I've plumbed their inner depths, and I know the physical security that surrounds them in the state of Ohio. They're damn safe.

Even though a simple jolt of ESD to the voter card grants full admin rights to teh computer?

Explain that one.

My fiance showed that all you have to do is hit the card with ESD, and you get full admin rights to the computer.

I find this highly improbable. Sure, in theory ESD could wipe the card's memory. But chances are any ESD that could do this would simply fry any components on the card. we're talking 10000~15000 Volts here.

Ever hear of the 9 Volt solution? That's where you touch a 9v battery to your new video card in order to get a refund. "Awww. It's defective." 9V fries the transistors within the IC's. Imagine what 10000V would do.

Feel free to PROVE me wrong with some evidence...

In my country, we have these little pieces of paper we drop into a cardboard box. Now THAT'S cost effective!!;)

It takes two keys to open the vault. One of them in the hands of the Republican Director, and the other in the hands of the Democrat. That's how the law states.

So who was the Democrat, Alan Colmes?

I find this highly improbable.

And yet it is exactly what happened when he tried it.

Sure, in theory ESD could wipe the card's memory. But chances are any ESD that could do this would simply fry any components on the card. we're talking 10000~15000 Volts here.

...with very low current, however. I've worked with all sorts of equipment that was screwed up by ESD, but not completely fried.

Ever hear of the 9 Volt solution? That's where you touch a 9v battery to your new video card in order to get a refund. "Awww. It's defective." 9V fries the transistors within the IC's. Imagine what 10000V would do.

Of course, that's a sustained 9V, with whatever current draw that causes, vs. a quick burst of high voltage at low current.

Feel free to PROVE me wrong with some evidence...

What do you want? The emails of my fiance and every GA senator that saw him demonstrate it? I'm fairly certain that, since this happened in 2004, the card and machine involved have both disappeared into the ether.

The video shows that they merely need to pick the lock (or use a duplicate of the thousands of keys in circulation) and boot the machine up with malicious software in a replacement memory card and then replace it with the original memory card afterwards and it can all take place in less than a minute.

It doesnt matter if they are kept in a bank vault overnight.

It also shows how they can create a virus that spreads from voting machine to voting machine.

the fact they they can do this is very concerning and makes electronic voting seem like a bad idea.