NationStates Jolt Archive

oh....and look....its a total and utter flop. (and yes I know Iranians are not Arabs....just playing to the crowd folks.....)

Vistors in the first week - 300 a day. Three week later (after all the furore) its down to 50 a day.

Most people in central Tehran say that the Holocaust was a historical fact.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1578720.ece

Cartoons mocking Holocaust prove a flop with Iranians
By Angus McDowall in Tehran
Published: 14 September 2006

An exhibition of cartoons about the Holocaust, some suggesting it was fabricated or exaggerated, has been a flop in Tehran. It drew audiences of fewer than 300 a day in its first week and now, three weeks after sparking international furore when it opened, attracts just 50 people a day.

Most of those approached in central Tehran said they had not heard of the exhibition and insisted the slaughter of six million Jews by the Nazis was a historical fact. "I'm sure the Holocaust was true - I've heard all about it from newspapers and television," said a housewife from a religious family. "I don't know why some say it didn't happen."

Shahram Rezaei, an Iranian cartoonist, drew Nazi soldiers laying a paper chain in a mass grave, implying that they were faking the deaths of Jews.

Some depictions drew heavily upon anti-Semitic stereotypes. Others accep-ted the Holocaust happened, but said it was being used to justify Western brutality in the Middle East. An entry byAlessandro Gatto, an Italian, showed an Arab looking forlornly from behind prison bars, which morphed into the stripes of a concentration camp jacket. Others focused on the suffering of Palestinians.

Thousands of foreigners have visited the exhibition's website at www.irancartoon.com, some of them engaging in angry debate. A conference on the Holocaust is planned in Tehran for October. It is also likely to garner more attention outside Iran than in the country.

The exhibition followed a Holocaust cartoon competition designed to show Western double standards in freedom of speech. The angry response of Westerners to President Ahmadinejad's Holocaust denial this spring caught many Iranians off guard, while Danish cartoons lampooning the Prophet Mohamed provoked outrage in the Muslim world.

A Moroccan entry by Hossein Abed showed Death riding a skeletal horse, clutching a pencil and sporting a Nazi armband. His cloak was made of the Danish flag. Another drawing showed an orthodox Jew pressing the face of another man into a lake labelled "freedom of expression". The Jew held a placard saying "Mohamed cartoon" and the drowning man held a sign saying "Holocaust". Iran's Jewish community had a mixed reaction. "Iranian Jews didn't pay much attention," said Haroun Yashayaie, the former head of Tehran's Jewish community. "Iranians as a whole are not very sensitive to the issue of the Holocaust."

But a Jewish student said: "This regime is crazy. Everybody knows the Holocaust happened. Over the past year things have become more difficult and this exhibition shows they do not care what we think."

The cartoons included US, European, Brazilian, Korean and Chinese entries. However, the US cartoonist David Baldinger said that his drawing "in no way ridiculed the Holocaust".

The UN secretary general, Kofi Annan, condemned the exhibition when he visited Iran at the beginning of the month. He said the Holocaust was "undeniable". Iranian newspapers responded by playing on his supposed friendship with an Israeli cartoonist.

Officials said that the exhibition championed freedom of speech, but yesterday they closed Iran's most popular reformist newspaper. One alleged offence was its publication of a cartoon which appeared to show President Ahmadinejad as a donkey.

An exhibition of cartoons about the Holocaust, some suggesting it was fabricated or exaggerated, has been a flop in Tehran. It drew audiences of fewer than 300 a day in its first week and now, three weeks after sparking international furore when it opened, attracts just 50 people a day.

Most of those approached in central Tehran said they had not heard of the exhibition and insisted the slaughter of six million Jews by the Nazis was a historical fact. "I'm sure the Holocaust was true - I've heard all about it from newspapers and television," said a housewife from a religious family. "I don't know why some say it didn't happen."

Shahram Rezaei, an Iranian cartoonist, drew Nazi soldiers laying a paper chain in a mass grave, implying that they were faking the deaths of Jews.

Some depictions drew heavily upon anti-Semitic stereotypes. Others accep-ted the Holocaust happened, but said it was being used to justify Western brutality in the Middle East. An entry byAlessandro Gatto, an Italian, showed an Arab looking forlornly from behind prison bars, which morphed into the stripes of a concentration camp jacket. Others focused on the suffering of Palestinians.

Thousands of foreigners have visited the exhibition's website at www.irancartoon.com, some of them engaging in angry debate. A conference on the Holocaust is planned in Tehran for October. It is also likely to garner more attention outside Iran than in the country. (see link for rest of story or click here (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1578720.ece).)
---------------------------------

Seems to me that many Iranians are able to tell fact from rhetoric.

It just goes to show that the Government of a State does not equal the people of that State.

its a bunch of cartoons on display that was not really advertised. What you expected millions of Jewish hating muslim iranians screaming aluha akbar or something?

Good that it was a flop no? Just shows that regardless of the bullshit the leader screams over the airwaves, the people seemed to be no different from anyone else.

Such a leader as Ahmadinejad cannot be the head of a country that is trying to be modern. It's time for the Iranian people do something about their regime. I know many of them are opressed and are afraid doing anything about that fanatic religious leader.

What are Ayrabs?

its a bunch of cartoons on display that was not really advertised. What you expected millions of Jewish hating muslim iranians screaming aluha akbar or something?

Good that it was a flop no? Just shows that regardless of the bullshit the leader screams over the airwaves, the people seemed to be no different from anyone else.

Which goes to show that....

You'd have thought with some pundits banging on about how 'evil' Iran is with regards to their disapproval of Isreal that this would have been seen as a media coup for all those rabid Irainian and other fundis' of Islamic faith. *ahem*

You are right though about the people.

I doubt that the ordinary Iranian would want to go back to the days of the Shah and his friendly band of killers, thugs and ...nations (UK and US). I would hazard a guess that that would be of primary importance. No more regional politics played by the West. Or even the East perhaps. Which deserves an entirely different thread!

I suspect that many Iranians are getting fed up with the 'religious police' and political motivated religious leaders as well. A few years back I happened upon a news report about teenage life in Iran. The kids (masked!) sounded off against the restrictions they live under.

However there is also a great pride in their Persian culture. In the case of the last Shah...possibly terminal.

I actually think some of the theme of the toons has a point. To a certain extent, I believe Western support for Israel is based on guilt from the Nazi era, and our lack of action for quite some time.

What are Ayrabs?

For uneducated neocon sheep? Anything with a towel on its head

Is it really a suprise to anyone that the people of a country don't always agree with the leaders?

what are we in preschool again?

someone (not even sure if they were jewish) draws a picture of a prophet (NOT ALLAH) and they get pissed?

LMAO

"we are so angry we will draw a cartoon mocking you"

So the people of Tehran know what we know here in the West - that the leaders of Iran right now are a bunch of assholes. Now if we give it time, the fanatics will lose power, decent people will run for office, and we won't have to do a damn thing.

Is it really a suprise to anyone that the people of a country don't always agree with the leaders?

The Right Wing will either be pissed or completely ignore the Iranian populace for not supporting their 3b1l |\/|0zl3|\/| 80rg ©0ll3©71\/3 fantasies. Notice how none of them have posted here congratulating the Iranian people for not buying into their government media's absurdist shit.

Let's see.. a few Dutch cartoons that one group of people don't like, and there are bombings and peopel die needlessly and violently.

A great deal of holocaust mocking cartoons that no one really likes, and ... nothing except perhaps some bitching... somewhere... like the internet... where everyone bitches... all the time...

Ummm, Rubiconic, the Iranians are not Arabs...

Let's see.. a few Dutch cartoons that one group of people don't like, and there are bombings and peopel die needlessly and violently.

A great deal of holocaust mocking cartoons that no one really likes, and ... nothing except perhaps some bitching... somewhere... like the internet... where everyone bitches... all the time...

Ah, how the Right Wing love to believe the Muslims immediately rioted when the cartoons came out. All that shit could have been avoided in the first place if the Prime Minister didn't brush off the small, quiet and law-abiding group of clerics who softly asked for the cartoons to be pulled.

When they were ignored, they decided to take their case to the Middle East as a whole. While showing those cartoons, a few firebrands got the brilliant idea of adding shit that wasn't even submitted to the newspaper, and in one case fabricated an insult by passing off a photo from a French Pig Festival as supposedly mocking Muhammed. Then everyone saw what happened.

Ah, how the Right Wing love to believe the Muslims immediately rioted when the cartoons came out. All that shit could have been avoided in the first place if the Prime Minister didn't brush off the small, quiet and law-abiding group of clerics who softly asked for the cartoons to be pulled.

Oh, so you're against freedom of speech.... nice...

Ummm, Rubiconic, the Iranians are not Arabs...

No? Really?

Read my OP first dude.... and my other post regarding this further down the thread.

Oh, so you're against freedom of speech.... nice...

Me? Hardly. You're free to yell "Fire" in the crowded theater or tell the world how it would be better off with all the Muslims sterilized.

Ah, how the Right Wing love to believe the Muslims immediately rioted when the cartoons came out. All that shit could have been avoided in the first place if the Prime Minister didn't brush off the small, quiet and law-abiding group of clerics who softly asked for the cartoons to be pulled.

When they were ignored, they decided to take their case to the Middle East as a whole. While showing those cartoons, a few firebrands got the brilliant idea of adding shit that wasn't even submitted to the newspaper, and in one case fabricated an insult by passing off a photo from a French Pig Festival as supposedly mocking Muhammed. Then everyone saw what happened.

OK, so some Danish guy does something that offends Muslims. Some power-hungry assholes rile people up by taking it too far. The assholes could have let this whole thing blow over, but the Danish guy just simply tossed an unused match into a fireworks factory. The clerics lit it and started going nuts with it. Then they decided to test our "commitment to freedom of speech" by mocking the Holocaust, and guess what? They're boring. Not nearly as much outcry from this. So now the assholes come off as, well, assholes. The sooner they're ignored, the better, and unfortunately, it's not something we can or should do for them.

Me? Hardly. You're free to yell "Fire" in the crowded theater or tell the world how it would be better off with all the Muslims sterilized.

Here's your dhimmitude badge. You obviously are too frightened to protect the Western value of free speech - you're too concerned that Muslims will riot or commit terrorist acts in response to speech.

Here's your dhimmitude badge. You obviously are too frightened to protect the Western value of free speech - you're too concerned that Muslims will riot or commit terrorist acts in response to speech.

And here's your official 3b1l |\/|0zl3|\/| 80rg ©0ll3©71\/3 Club Membership Kit. Obviously you once again subscribe to Dear Leader's "You're Either With Us or Against Us" mentality by assuming anyone who doesn't jump on your Sterilize The Towelheads bandwagon is all for a "Global Caliphate"™ that has a snowball's chance in Hell of happening. Apparently Free Speech is all right as long as it's aimed at the 3b1l |\/|0zl3|\/| 80rg ©0ll3©71\/3 but the moment someone makes a mockumentary about Shrub getting shot it's bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch...

:rolleyes:

A (North) Korean obcession with worshipping Dear Leader. Go figure.

Ah, how the Right Wing love to believe the Muslims immediately rioted when the cartoons came out. All that shit could have been avoided in the first place if the Prime Minister didn't brush off the small, quiet and law-abiding group of clerics who softly asked for the cartoons to be pulled.

When they were ignored, they decided to take their case to the Middle East as a whole. While showing those cartoons, a few firebrands got the brilliant idea of adding shit that wasn't even submitted to the newspaper, and in one case fabricated an insult by passing off a photo from a French Pig Festival as supposedly mocking Muhammed. Then everyone saw what happened.

Oh, you mean that murdering random people is ok, so long as I aproach a world leader and ask that he interfere with the freedom of the press first. So when my request to a world leader that he do something is illegal is ignored, I can then go and kill people... Wow... I didn't know civilization worked like that.

Or do you mean that the verbal and writen provocation was the justification for murdering people. If that's the case, then I have to get busy... there's a lot of payback coming.

And here's your official 3b1l |\/|0zl3|\/| 80rg ©0ll3©71\/3 Club Membership Kit. Obviously you once again subscribe to Dear Leader's "You're Either With Us or Against Us" mentality by assuming anyone who doesn't jump on your Sterilize The Towelheads bandwagon is all for a "Global Caliphate"™ that has a snowball's chance in Hell of happening. Apparently Free Speech is all right as long as it's aimed at the 3b1l |\/|0zl3|\/| 80rg ©0ll3©71\/3 but the moment someone makes a mockumentary about Shrub getting shot it's bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch...

:rolleyes:

A (North) Korean obcession with worshipping Dear Leader. Go figure.

Please tell me you are just making a joke at this point... we're supposed to be laughing together, now, right?

And here's your official 3b1l |\/|0zl3|\/| 80rg ©0ll3©71\/3 Club Membership Kit. Obviously you once again subscribe to Dear Leader's "You're Either With Us or Against Us" mentality by assuming anyone who doesn't jump on your Sterilize The Towelheads bandwagon is all for a "Global Caliphate"™ that has a snowball's chance in Hell of happening. Apparently Free Speech is all right as long as it's aimed at the 3b1l |\/|0zl3|\/| 80rg ©0ll3©71\/3 but the moment someone makes a mockumentary about Shrub getting shot it's bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch...

:rolleyes:

A (North) Korean obcession with worshipping Dear Leader. Go figure.

Don't know where you get that - it's perfectly ok with me when people make mockumentaries.

I live in the US, and like it. If Muslims don't like parodies of themselves, they can go burn down their own countries (which they seem remarkably adept at doing).

And you don't have to want to oppose a Caliphate to support free speech. I don't support any restriction on free speech - Michael Moore and Disney can make all the uninformed, skewed, rabid movies they like smearing one side or the other. I even paid to see all of Moore's movies (I liked his short-lived TV series).

Catering to their respect for their Prophet, on pain of terrorism and rioting, is dhimmitude.

Hello, dhimmi.

Oh, you mean that murdering random people is ok, so long as I aproach a world leader and ask that he interfere with the freedom of the press first. So when my request to a world leader that he do something is illegal is ignored, I can then go and kill people... Wow... I didn't know civilization worked like that.

Or do you mean that the verbal and writen provocation was the justification for murdering people. If that's the case, then I have to get busy... there's a lot of payback coming.

Wow, a lot more strawmen than a samurai flick.

Funny considering how Denmark has a Religious Profanity Law that somehow didn't apply to mocking Muslims.

And where did you read that I supposedly endorsed the violence? Did you borrow those alien-detecting shades from Roddy Piper and found some hidden words in my post?

:rolleyes:

Get busy anyways. That's one less Darwin Award contender for the world to deal with.

Catering to their respect for their Prophet, on pain of terrorism and rioting, is dhimmitude.

Hello, dhimmi.

I guess that makes everyone who feels that Muslims shouldn't be sterilized "dhimmis." And convenient you assume that showing some respect for a religion somehow equals "Supporting Terrorism and Oppression" in your mindset.

Typical right-wing labelling.

:rolleyes:

Hello Bushevik.

I guess that makes everyone who feels that Muslims shouldn't be sterilized "dhimmis."

Nope, I didn't say that.

I said that anyone who blames the West for the behavior of Muslims is a dhimmi, if the behavior in question is a protected right in the West.

Such as freedom of speech.

Nice attempt to change the subject, but it isn't working.

Don't know where you get that - it's perfectly ok with me when people make mockumentaries.

I live in the US, and like it. If Muslims don't like parodies of themselves, they can go burn down their own countries (which they seem remarkably adept at doing).

And you don't have to want to oppose a Caliphate to support free speech. I don't support any restriction on free speech - Michael Moore and Disney can make all the uninformed, skewed, rabid movies they like smearing one side or the other. I even paid to see all of Moore's movies (I liked his short-lived TV series).

Catering to their respect for their Prophet, on pain of terrorism and rioting, is dhimmitude.

Hello, dhimmi.

well I have say that you cannot say that of me....me being an atheist and all...

I wonder if Gauthier is as well. Or even if Gauthier qualifies under racial/religious circumstances. Oh...also it refers to those who live in Islamic lands (dar al-Islam) which Denmark ain't. So really Gauthier is not a dhimmi.

Nice try at twisting there DK...

well I have say that you cannot say that of me....me being an atheist and all...

I wonder if Gauthier is as well. Or even if Gauthier qualifies under racial/religious circumstances. Oh...also it refers to those who live in Islamic lands (dar al-Islam) which Denmark ain't. So really Gauthier is not a dhimmi.

Nice try at twisting there DK...

It's actually spot on.

Sunnis view the world as Dar al-Islam, and Dar al-Harb - that is, we live in the area that hasn't been conquered by Islam yet.

Gauthier doesn't have to be religious to be a dhimmi. All he has to do is respect Muslim faith on pain of the threat of violence.

Which he's stated that the entire West should do - be nice to the Muslims or we will be responsible for the Muslims rioting in their own countries.

QED

well I have say that you cannot say that of me....me being an atheist and all...

I wonder if Gauthier is as well. Or even if Gauthier qualifies under racial/religious circumstances. Oh...also it refers to those who live in Islamic lands (dar al-Islam) which Denmark ain't. So really Gauthier is not a dhimmi.

Nice try at twisting there DK...

"Dhimmi" is the latest example of Bushevik redefinition of words. DK is trying to imply it means "Jihadist fellator" or "Someone who refuses to take a hardline stance on Muslims."

Oh, you mean that murdering random people is ok, so long as I aproach a world leader and ask that he interfere with the freedom of the press first. So when my request to a world leader that he do something is illegal is ignored, I can then go and kill people... Wow... I didn't know civilization worked like that.

Or do you mean that the verbal and writen provocation was the justification for murdering people. If that's the case, then I have to get busy... there's a lot of payback coming.

I do not remember people getting killed over these cartoons...

I do not remember people getting killed over these cartoons...

People died in riots.

I actually think some of the theme of the toons has a point. To a certain extent, I believe Western support for Israel is based on guilt from the Nazi era, and our lack of action for quite some time.

I doubt that this is still a factor.
The only area where it still has some affect is by things such as when Germany wanted to send their soldiers to be part of the peacekeeping force in Lebanon, so they started talking about "what would happen if there'll be shooting between Germans and Israelis" and all that crap. I personally think it's bullshit and it's time to let it go.
I have many German friends who are ashamed by what their ancestors or regime did to jews 60 years ago, and I think it's stupid and time to let it go as well.

It's actually spot on.

Sunnis view the world as Dar al-Islam, and Dar al-Harb - that is, we live in the area that hasn't been conquered by Islam yet.

Gauthier doesn't have to be religious to be a dhimmi. All he has to do is respect Muslim faith on pain of the threat of violence.

Which he's stated that the entire West should do - be nice to the Muslims or we will be responsible for the Muslims rioting in their own countries.

QED

Except that the West exists in Dar al-Harb and not Dar al-Islam within which dhimmitude is a componant.

Dar al-Harb is 'the House of War'...lands not under Islamic submission. al-Islam are land under Islamic submission.

It really behooves you to research first before pulling silly termsn like that out of yer arse.

Oh btw..the concepts of Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb are not part of the Quran.

Even if you don't agree with the theme, it is worth a glance.

It's interesting to look through the eyes of another. It helps you to gain perspective.

Except that the West exists in Dar al-Harb and not Dar al-Islam within which dhimmitude is a componant.

Dar al-Harb is 'the House of War'...lands not under Islamic submission. al-Islam are land under Islamic submission.

It really behooves you to research first before pulling silly termsn like that out of yer arse.

Oh btw..the concepts of Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb are not part of the Quran.

It behooves you to note that people can wish to be dhimmi when they are in Dar al-Harb. Because they wish to submit now.

Why don't you ask Aryavartha, who is much more of an expert on this than you are?

It behooves you to note that people can wish to be dhimmi when they are in Dar al-Harb. Because they wish to submit now.

Why don't you ask Aryavartha, who is much more of an expert on this than you are?

LOL poor poor little DK...wrong again.

Dhimmi is term applied by Islamics...not brain dead loosers like your good self :)

The one where the arabs prison bars are also the stripes on a concentration camp uniform is quite good.

LOL poor poor little DK...wrong again.

Dhimmi is term applied by Islamics...not brain dead loosers like your good self :)

Nope. Maybe you need to read more. It's used also to describe people who wish to be dhimmis under Islamic rule by appeasement.

Nope. Maybe you need to read more. It's used also to describe people who wish to be dhimmis under Islamic rule by appeasement.

appeasement???!!!

Dhimmi is the Arabic word for people of the book, meaning Christians and Jews, living in muslim lands.

appeasement???!!!

Dhimmi is the Arabic word for people of the book, meaning Christians and Jews, living in muslim lands.

It has a modern usage - people who can't wait to submit to Islamic rule.

People died in riots.

did they?

are you sure?

More than in other riots?

Nope. Maybe you need to read more. It's used also to describe people who wish to be dhimmis under Islamic rule by appeasement.

Bwwwaaaahahaha

Sorry DK but you are now desperately trying to spin out of this. As usual.

[i]Dhimmi (also zimmi, Arabic ذمي, often translated as "protected") is the legal status of a free non-Muslim subject of a state governed in accordance with sharia — Islamic law.[i/]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmitude

Guess you can't be an adult and admit you were wrong.

Why is that DK?

It has a modern usage - people who can't wait to submit to Islamic rule.
In your vocabulary perhaps... ;)

Bwwwaaaahahaha

Sorry DK but you are now desperately trying to spin out of this. As usual.

[i]Dhimmi (also zimmi, Arabic ذمي, often translated as "protected") is the legal status of a free non-Muslim subject of a state governed in accordance with sharia — Islamic law.[i/]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmitude

Guess you can't be an adult and admit you were wrong.

Why is that DK?
Because Aryavartha is an expert on the subject.

Because it has a modern usage, namely, people who can't wait to appease their coming Muslim rulers.

Can't admit you're wrong, can you? Can't even open your mind to the idea, because you're afraid the label would apply to someone you know?

did they?

are you sure?

More than in other riots?

Asside from the people who died in riots, people also dies in teh Danish Embassy Bombing.

It has a modern usage - people who can't wait to submit to Islamic rule.

If so than its a term that really makes no sense.

Nothing really surprising about nutters using others language to try to raise hackles and failing miserably when it is shown that the root word has no link to the sentiments expressed in the 'modern' usage.

Rubiconic wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmitude

Associations and usage

The associations of the word "dhimmitude" vary between users:

* Bat Ye'or originally defined dhimmitude as the "specific social condition that resulted from jihad," and as the "state of fear and insecurity" of "infidels" who are required to "accept a condition of humiliation." She believes that "the dhimmi condition can only be understood in the context of jihad". Thus, "dhimmitude" is the condition and experience of those who are subject to dhimma, and is not synonymous to, but rather a subset of the dhimma phenomenon.
* It may be simply a replacement for the — compared to dhimmi — relatively little known noun dhimma and carry the same meaning. This has already widely happened in French usage (where "-tude" is a productive suffix, too)
* A more recent pejorative usage variant of "dhimmi" and "dhimmitude" divorces the words from the historical context of jihad and applies them to situations where non-Muslims in the West are allegedly championing Islamic causes above others’; "dhimmi" is synonymous with "Quisling" within this context. (E.g., the site Dhimmi Watch by Robert Spencer.}

Because Aryavartha is an expert on the subject.

Because it has a modern usage, namely, people who can't wait to appease their coming Muslim rulers.

Can't admit you're wrong, can you? Can't even open your mind to the idea, because you're afraid the label would apply to someone you know?

Asking a Hindi to be an expert witness on Islam. Why not ask FOX News to write a flattering testimonial on the Clinton Adminstration or David Duke to address the NAACP on MLK Day while you're at it?

If so than its a term that really makes no sense.

Nothing really surprising about nutters using others language to try to raise hackles and failing miserably when it is shown that the root word has no link to the sentiments expressed in the 'modern' usage.

Hey! How about this idea: as none of us submit ourselves to those laws, and as none of us live in a place where we are forced into submision to those laws, we can just NOT GIVE A DAMN how they label us.

Religious law is only law if you are PRACTICING THAT RELIGION... at least in a free state that's true.

Because Aryavartha is an expert on the subject.

Because it has a modern usage, namely, people who can't wait to appease their coming Muslim rulers.

Can't admit you're wrong, can you? Can't even open your mind to the idea, because you're afraid the label would apply to someone you know?

Do you know how feeble you sound?

Bleat bleat bleat LOLOL

I'm sorry but why? Why! are you defending Iran?

I'm sorry but why? Why! are you defending Iran?

Nobody's defending the Iranian government and media. We're defending the Iranian people who showed they have thoughts of their own by lacking interest in these blatant anti-Semitic jabs.

The fact that the average Iranian thwarts the NS General 3b1l |\/|0zl3|\/| 80rg ©0ll3©71\/3 fantasy in such a manner is something that should be defended.

Rubiconic wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmitude

No...I see you left out the entymology...

Etymology

Dhimmi (also zimmi, Arabic ذمي, often translated as "protected") is the legal status of a free non-Muslim subject of a state governed in accordance with sharia — Islamic law. The word dhimmi is an adjective (but used like a noun in English). It is derived from the noun dhimma, which means "pact of liability", and denotes the legal relationship between non-Muslim subjects and the Islamic state. "Dhimmitude" adds the productive suffix "-tude" to the adjective dhimmi, thus creating a new noun with a meaning (arguably) distinct from dhimma.

The term entered English-language use after the 1996 publication of the book "The Decline of Eastern Christianity under Islam. From Jihad to Dhimmitude. Seventh-Twentieth Century"[1] and the 2003 followup "Islam and Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations Collide"[2] by Bat Ye'or. Widely thought to have invented the word[3], others[4] think she borrowed the term from the assassinated Lebanese Maronite leader Bashir Gemayel.

Bashir Gemayel - Phalangist Party, Kataeb Regular Forces, Maronites........extreme right wing Lebenon christian nationalists....hmmmmmmmm

LOL

DK OWNED

again.

No...I see you left out the entymology...

DK OWNED

again.
Sorry, that doesn't say I'm wrong at all.

You just don't want to admit it has a modern usage. Probably because it describes you.

Hey! How about this idea: as none of us submit ourselves to those laws, and as none of us live in a place where we are forced into submision to those laws, we can just NOT GIVE A DAMN how they label us.

Religious law is only law if you are PRACTICING THAT RELIGION... at least in a free state that's true.

Works for me....maybe you should tell DK that though....I think he has an issue with grapsing some of the basics....

Let's see.. a few Dutch cartoons that one group of people don't like, and there are bombings and peopel die needlessly and violently.

A great deal of holocaust mocking cartoons that no one really likes, and ... nothing except perhaps some bitching... somewhere... like the internet... where everyone bitches... all the time...

and don't forget... they stopped going to see the exhibit. man they really pulled out the rough stuff... excersising their right to NOT go to the exhibit.

makes the furor about the Dutch cartoons seem more like a huge tantrum eh?

Sorry, that doesn't say I'm wrong at all.

You just don't want to admit it has a modern usage. Probably because it describes you.

Don't think so DK. I never denied its modern usage. What I am pointing out is that its actual use as THAT modern term is rubbish.

I am surprised that you are having such a hard time in figuring that out unless your blind hatred is clouding your critical facilities...well maybe not that surprised.

Works for me....maybe you should tell DK that though....I think he has an issue with grapsing some of the basics....

Maybe you have trouble with the idea of modern usage. And declaring victory in an argument when you haven't come close.

Nobody's defending the Iranian government and media. We're defending the Iranian people who showed they have thoughts of their own by lacking interest in these blatant anti-Semitic jabs.

The fact that the average Iranian thwarts the NS General 3b1l |\/|0zl3|\/| 80rg ©0ll3©71\/3 fantasy in such a manner is something that should be defended.

You are probably only defending them against 1 or 2 people on this forum. No one else thinks that all Iranians are anti semetic.

I'm sorry but why? Why! are you defending Iran?

There's a biog difference between Iranians and Iran

The Iranian people were modernizing (still are) and developing western values for a long time. We were finally only a generation away from a fully westernized Iran. Then the nuclear thing comes up, and instead of dealing with it in a way that would not offend the PEOPLE of Iran, the US went in heavy handed, and went from being the ideal in they eyes of Iranian youth to being the enemy again, and gave them something in common with the dictatorial religious nutbars they were only a few years away from overthrowing or replacing.

Iran was on the verge of becoming a non-problem, and that *might* still be salvagable, but it will take a true statesman (or stateswoman) to clear that up, and I'm not sure there are any alive of that caliber.

I'm sorry but why? Why! are you defending Iran?

Who is defending Iran? If anything I am pointing out there there seems to be variance between the political sound bits of the leadership and what ordinary Iranians think....surely that is a good thing?

This is a rough translation of a part by a writer on the Middle East I would really like to share with you...

It was during the cartoon crises over the Danish cartoons picturing Mohammad earlier this year. It was the birthday of an Egyptian friend, so I called to Egypt congratulate him. After the standard Arab conduct of assuring the wellbeing of both our families, I asked how it was out there. “It is tense as hell here” he answered. “I know people that haven’t slept for days”. Is it that bad? I asked quite worried, recalling the images in the western press, showing enraged Muslims rioting, and the articles about the anger in the Islamic world; Egypt is one of the most important Islamic countries, was it getting out of hand? “I myself got carried away as well, actually”, my friend continued… “Especially the game versus Senegal, I mean: I aged ten years that night.” He had been talking of the Africa Cup…

No two ways around it, that "put this in your diary" cartoon is laugh riot.

Maybe you have trouble with the idea of modern usage. And declaring victory in an argument when you haven't come close.

Dude...you don't even know what you are argueing for or against!

bleat bleat bleat LOL

In this thread you are now irrelevent.

Sorry, that doesn't say I'm wrong at all.

You just don't want to admit it has a modern usage. Probably because it describes you.

*POINTS* "YOU'RE A DHIMMI!!'
*POINTS* "YOU'RE A DHIMMI!!'
*POINTS* "YOU'RE A DHIMMI!!'
*POINTS* "YOU'RE A DHIMMI!!'

etc... etc...

Christ... Joe McCarthy's called less people Commies in his entire life.

:p

*POINTS* "YOU'RE A DHIMMI!!'
*POINTS* "YOU'RE A DHIMMI!!'
*POINTS* "YOU'RE A DHIMMI!!'
*POINTS* "YOU'RE A DHIMMI!!'

etc... etc...

Christ... Joe McCarthy's called less people Commies in his entire life.

:p

Print this out, cut it out of the paper, and wear it.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/jtkwon/seal.gif

*POINTS* "YOU'RE A DHIMMI!!'
*POINTS* "YOU'RE A DHIMMI!!'
*POINTS* "YOU'RE A DHIMMI!!'
*POINTS* "YOU'RE A DHIMMI!!'

etc... etc...

Christ... Joe McCarthy's called less people Commies in his entire life.

:p

If some know-nothing pissant called me a 'dhimmi' I'd spit in his face. Where do people dredge up this stupid shit?

Ah, how the Right Wing love to believe the Muslims immediately rioted when the cartoons came out. All that shit could have been avoided in the first place if the Prime Minister didn't brush off the small, quiet and law-abiding group of clerics who softly asked for the cartoons to be pulled.

When they were ignored, they decided to take their case to the Middle East as a whole. While showing those cartoons, a few firebrands got the brilliant idea of adding shit that wasn't even submitted to the newspaper, and in one case fabricated an insult by passing off a photo from a French Pig Festival as supposedly mocking Muhammed. Then everyone saw what happened.

I think a major reason that this got out of hand is because those firebrand clerics knew that the Danish government was going to be weak with them. As soon as they decided to go on tour in the middle east they shouldn't have been allowed back into Denmark. Or if they were allowed back they should have just been jailed on some trumped up paedophillia charge. If that kind of policy had already been introduced I doubt any of the remaining radical clerics would be so inclined to cause trouble in the future.

Print this out, cut it out of the paper, and wear it.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/jtkwon/seal.gif

AHHHHHHH HA HA HA HA HAAAAAA!!

*POINT* "YOU'RE A DHIMMI!!"

Is that all you can do?

How about sending me the Amish Virus while you're at it?

AHHHHHHH HA HA HA HA HAAAAAA!!

*POINT* "YOU'RE A DHIMMI!!"

Is that all you can do?

How about sending me the Amish Virus while you're at it?

You're not denying you support acceding to Muslim demands under threat of violence by Muslims, so the label fits you perfectly.

And you are unable to deny that. It's all you ever do - support acceding to Muslim demands under threat of violence by Muslims.

Sorry, that doesn't say I'm wrong at all.

You just don't want to admit it has a modern usage. Probably because it describes you.

Can I be a dhimmi DK? I've never had a nickname before and I've always wanted one.

Seriously, is anyone bothered by someone calling them names?

Thousands of foreigners have visited the exhibition's website at www.irancartoon.com...must be more than a few thousand.. that link is busy as hell.

anyone has another link??

I'm sorry but why? Why! are you defending Iran?I am just trying to piss you off..

You're not denying you support acceding to Muslim demands under threat of violence by Muslims, so the label fits you perfectly.

And you are unable to deny that. It's all you ever do - support acceding to Muslim demands under threat of violence by Muslims.

When did I start sounding like Neville Chamberlain to you?

Only in your twisted "logic" does standing up for Muslims when they're all being painted as part of an evil collective means caving in to terrorism and supporting a global theocracy.

And why do I need to chant over and over that I don't care much for religious extremism? Oh that's right, it's the "Either They All Condemn It Out Loud 24/7 or They All In Fact Support It" condition that Busheviks like to stick to Muslims and people who don't believe they're all 3b1l J1|=|@d1 80rgs.

Tell you what, I'll chant over and over how I denounce Jihadi violence and terrorism if you keep chanting over and over how Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph don't represent Christianity and how you detest violence.

So the people of Tehran know what we know here in the West - that the leaders of Iran right now are a bunch of assholes. Now if we give it time, the fanatics will lose power, decent people will run for office, and we won't have to do a damn thing.

I am pretty sure they noted it before "We here in the West". By the way, Irán is a theocracy, not a democracy where fanatics will lose power and all of sudden decent people will run for office.

It's sad, although.

The lack of decent people running for, and actually in, the goverments of the West is also a matter of worry for me.

By the way, Irán is a theocracy, not a democracy where fanatics will lose power and all of sudden decent people will run for office.

I am well aware of that. However, there are two ways to get rid of an oppressive regime - revolution and evolution. Revolutions are quick, decisive, and they do the job; however, a wacko is just as likely to spring up. That's how Iran got rid of the Shah, but it's also how they got stuck with the Ayatollah. Evolution takes a while, but given time, the only power the Ayatollah will have is by force. Local governments will become more autonomous, and the clerics will lose their grip. It ends up in a democracy, but it takes longer. So they won't lose power "all of a sudden," but in time, they will.

Come fellow Jews! Let us burn down their embassy!

:p

Holocaust denial is so last century.

Proves that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has about as much taste as old sawdust.

Hello, dhimmi.

So i am guessing anyone who says "Islam means peace" and goes around to mosques expressing his support for islam and emphasizing that they are just as american as you or me is a Dhimmi?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010917-11.html

Hello, dhimmi

The Right Wing will either be pissed or completely ignore the Iranian populace for not supporting their 3b1l |\/|0zl3|\/| 80rg ©0ll3©71\/3 fantasies.
This is the greatest achievement in 1337 sp33k that I've ever seen!

Here's your dhimmitude badge. You obviously are too frightened to protect the Western value of free speech - you're too concerned that Muslims will riot or commit terrorist acts in response to speech.
And here's your official 3b1l |\/|0zl3|\/| 80rg ©0ll3©71\/3 Club Membership Kit. Obviously you once again subscribe to Dear Leader's "You're Either With Us or Against Us" mentality by assuming anyone who doesn't jump on your Sterilize The Towelheads bandwagon is all for a "Global Caliphate"™ that has a snowball's chance in Hell of happening.
Battle of the Strawmen! Which one will win? Which one is hotter?

Why can't you shitheads ever argue against the points that the other is actually making? Rather than the idiotic point you want them to be making?

And convenient you assume that showing some respect for a religion somehow equals "Supporting Terrorism and Oppression" in your mindset.

Typical right-wing labelling.

Why should showing disrespect for a religion not be allowed?

Why disrespect for a religion an acceptable excuse for violent reaction?

Respecting religion is hardly a left-wing tradition anyway.

(snip)...
3b1l |\/|0zl3|\/| 80rg ©0ll3©71\/3
...(snip)


Seriously, what is that? I've seen it in about three or four of your posts. What does it say?

Seriously, what is that? I've seen it in about three or four of your posts. What does it say?

"Evil Muslim Borg Collective"

"Evil Muslim Borg Collective"

.............



Somebody needs to go outside.

.............

Somebody needs to go outside.

I know...:(

Just shows that regardless of the bullshit the leader screams over the airwaves, the people seemed to be no different from anyone else.
And yet they love him.

For uneducated neocon sheep? Anything with a towel on its head

Well, the word is not in Merriam Webster's (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/ayrab), maybe you just cannot type right? Are you a neocon?

Well, the word is not in Merriam Webster's (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/ayrab), maybe you just cannot type right? Are you a neocon?

Which word?

Edit - Ok Ayrab...well there you go...like I said...uneducated...and lets face it....anyone who uses a dictionary must have some education. (That is also a swipe at the UK...our educational system is fecked)

Come fellow Jews! Let us burn down their embassy!

:p

:D

ps, you do know that protest are never allowed in these regimes and when they are they are supported and organised by the government... :)

Which word?

Edit - Ok Ayrab...well there you go...like I said...uneducated...and lets face it....anyone who uses a dictionary must have some education. (That is also a swipe at the UK...our educational system is fecked)

So what are Ayrabs? I am not natively using the English language. Does it mean anything or is it just a typo?

OK, I found something on Urban Dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ayrab), what a crap.

So what are Ayrabs? I am not natively using the English language. Does it mean anything or is it just a typo?

OK, I found something on Urban Dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ayrab), what a crap.

Yes, Ayrab is an insult basically.

And yet they love him.

In Iran there was growing resentment towards the leadership from the 20-something crowd. Their education system has improved greatly recently, and the religious-nutbar student unions were loosing power rapidly (I am an observant person of religion - by religious-nutbar I was referring to fanatical mouvements, not all religious groups).

There was a STRONG pro-American sentiment from that generation... until the whole nuclear thing... the US botched that, and antagonized the pro-American population. They still don't love their leadership the way they once did, but now they support it against America. I really think that *that* is Bush's biggest screw up yet - to loose America a whole generation of good feeling in an area where they desperately NEED it.

:D

ps, you do know that protest are never allowed in these regimes and when they are they are supported and organised by the government... :)

The point was referring to how Danish Anti-Islam Cartoons caused riots and a bombing and people dying, but when the 'toons deny the holocaust you don't get riots or violence ANYWHERE because of it... only debate... and some (very embarassing) bitching.

:D

ps, you do know that protest are never allowed in these regimes and when they are they are supported and organised by the government... :)
Not true at all. Religious protests and in some places, student protests are common.