NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/chronicle/4182615.html

Somehow, he's making sense. If we're not willing to fry a few Americans with a microwave pain beam, and take the risks of being sued until our skin comes off, then we shouldn't deploy such "less lethal" weapons in foreign countries.

Nonlethal weapons such as high-power microwave devices should be used on American citizens in crowd-control situations before they are used on the battlefield, the Air Force secretary said Tuesday.

Domestic use would make it easier to avoid questions in the international community over any possible safety concerns, said Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne.

"If we're not willing to use it here against our fellow citizens, then we should not be willing to use it in a wartime situation," said Wynne.

"(Because) if I hit somebody with a nonlethal weapon and they claim that it injured them in a way that was not intended, I think that I would be vilified in the world press."

IIRC, the Marines have already tested such a pain weapon on goats AND on volunteer Marines.

So what happens if the weapon kills all the people?

So what happens if the weapon kills all the people?

It doesn't kill you.

The one the Marines use (a high power tuned microwave beam mounted on a Humvee) is designed to make you feel like you've touched the bottom of a hot iron. Extreme pain.

Not sure if it has other long term effects on your vision, your brain, etc. - but they've fried more than one volunteer Marine so far.

It's designed to make people run for the hills, or feel like they're in Hell.

But what if it does kill them? It's a bloody hypothetical.

IIRC, the Marines have already tested such a pain weapon on goats.

well that’s a tad unnecessarily cruelty to animals (yeah I couldn’t give a rats arse about U.S marines in encounters there usually dicks)

edit: is anyone else a tad worried about these weapons I know its gun loving America but still a good teargasing still works

But what if it does kill them? It's a bloody hypothetical.

In tests, it hasn't killed the human volunteers, nor has it killed the goats.

Hypothetically, you could be running away from the beam in a panic, and be trampled by the panicked crowd.

The active-denial system weapon is designed to transmit a narrow beam of electromagnetic energy to heat the skin without causing any permanent damage. The beam is sent out at the speed of light by a transmitter measuring 10 by 10 feet (3 by 3 meters). An intense burning sensation continues until the transmitter is turned off or the targeted individual moves outside of the beam's range. The exact size and range of the beam is classified, but it is designed for long-range use.

Officials report that the weapon penetrates the skin less than 0.016 inches (0.04 cm), not far enough to damage organs. Long-term exposure to light, such as in sun-tanning, is said to be more harmful than the pain beam. Some human rights activists have voiced concerns about possible damage to eyes, but military officials contend that targeted people would likely close their eyes before damage is done.

So, you might get your eyeballs cooked.

According to an Associated Press story, the active-denial technology has been tested on 72 people at Brooks Air Force Base since 1994. Humans have been exposed to the beam more than 6,500 times for an average of less than 10 seconds, with no serious injuries resulting.

Other than minor skin tenderness caused by repeated exposure to the beam, there are no lasting effects. A review of the weapon has determined that the risk level of being injured by it is minimal. The weapon also meets all U.S. treaty obligations. Further research, development and testing are expected to continue through the summer of 2001. A final review will be performed before the weapon is declared field-ready.

With the unveiling of the pain-beam gun, the Pentagon is poising itself for a new age of warfare. U.S. armed forces are often thrown into volatile areas of the world, where enemies are intermixed with innocent citizens. The U.S. Department of Defense is preparing for these situations by designing a weapon that repels attacks but lowers the potential for unintended civilian causalities.

It doesn't kill you.

The one the Marines use (a high power tuned microwave beam mounted on a Humvee) is designed to make you feel like you've touched the bottom of a hot iron. Extreme pain.

Not sure if it has other long term effects on your vision, your brain, etc. - but they've fried more than one volunteer Marine so far.

It's designed to make people run for the hills, or feel like they're in Hell.

I'm not a expert on these things but it seems to me that a high power microwave beam would cause quite severe burn, kinda like being in a micreowave oven.

So what happens if the weapon kills all the people?

It's already been tested on goats and Marines. It should be safe for people as well.

It may be non-lethal, but tear-shedding animal rights activists will now say: "YOU KILLED THOSE LOVING GOATS WITH FRICKIN' LASER BEAMS!!!!"

And the rest of us nod our heads in shame. But, Microwave pain rays, only mankind -- the most violent and destructive species that has ever existed on Earth -- could think of that. Isn't technology great?

well that’s a tad unnecessarily cruelty to animals (yeah I couldn’t give a rats arse about U.S marines in encounters there usually dicks)

edit: is anyone else a tad worried about these weapons I know its gun loving America but still a good teargasing still works

Teargas isn't usefull if there's a strong wind blowing toward you, right? Plus the effects of tear gas will stay with you for a little while after you're exposed. I'd assume it's an all-weather deterant that stops hurting as soon as the crowd moves away from the source of the microwave.

But, Microwave pain rays, only mankind -- the most violent and destructive species that has ever existed on Earth -- could think of that.

Well, duh, no other species has the necessary brain power. Regardless, I'd prefer temporary pain to a bullet wound if I had the misfortune of being mistaken for a rioter.

Well, duh, no other species has the necessary brain power. Regardless, I'd prefer temporary pain to a bullet wound if I had the misfortune of being mistaken for a rioter.

You will kneel before Deep Kimchi!
http://homepage.mac.com/jholbo/nutwork/images/Zod.jpg

With the unveiling of the pain-beam gun, the Pentagon is poising itself for a new age of warfare.

Oh fantastic. Am I not on record as having stated that the USA seems to be currently basing itself on the Klingon Empire?

Teargas isn't usefull if there's a strong wind blowing toward you, right? Plus the effects of tear gas will stay with you for a little while after you're exposed. I'd assume it's an all-weather deterant that stops hurting as soon as the crowd moves away from the source of the microwave.

but it links the military to the police the one thing the police have been avoiding since its creation could those 18th century nightmares be true? Could the police become a private army of the government intended to make an 1884 world!

You will kneel before Deep Kimchi!
http://homepage.mac.com/jholbo/nutwork/images/Zod.jpg

It seems reasonable to assume that this is a reference, but I do not know what is being referenced.

Oh fantastic. Am I not on record as having stated that the USA seems to be currently basing itself on the Klingon Empire?

No, more like the evil parallel to the Federation...
http://www.shipbrook.com/karen/blog/images/spock.jpg

but it links the military to the police the one thing the police have been avoiding since its creation could those 18th century nightmares be true? Could the police become a private army of the government intended to make an 1884 world!

When have the police been anything other than an army of the government and the wealthy corporations that control the government?

When have the police been anything other than an army of the government and the wealthy corporations that control the government?

In movies, TV shows, and the minds of idiots.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/chronicle/4182615.html

Somehow, he's making sense. If we're not willing to fry a few Americans with a microwave pain beam, and take the risks of being sued until our skin comes off, then we shouldn't deploy such "less lethal" weapons in foreign countries.



IIRC, the Marines have already tested such a pain weapon on goats AND on volunteer Marines.

I can understand using the goats, they're smart enough to react to pain. But Marines?

I can understand using the goats, they're smart enough to react to pain. But Marines?

You have to figure, if it can get a Marine to react to the pain, it must really, really hurt.

Hmm, clever tech, but a tad scary, wherever it's used. Thankfully in the UK police have to be part of a special team to carry more than a stick and pepper spray, so I doubt micropain zapper's will make it here soon. However, as a military tool, it looks a bit easy for Team America to use it liberally on anyone they don't like that week, eg if their country begins with I or beards are popular. Picture the scene - leaflet drop the capital telling populace that all will feel pain unless regime change. Then cook everyone for a bit. Then remind them of the need for regime change. Repeat.
Or alternately, as some of the people unpopular with USA at the moment aren't high tech, they start retaliating in kind by kidnapping westerners and inflicting non lethal pain old style. With pliers and the like. Wounds heal, nails grow back, only real difference is in the tech level I reckon.

Fantastic! Something else for my friends to shoot me with. :rolleyes:

No, more like the evil parallel to the Federation...
http://www.shipbrook.com/karen/blog/images/spock.jpg

Yes, to be honest I was going to mention the Agonizers of the Mirror Universe, but I thought it was a touch too obscure a reference.

...so, you concede that the US is currently basing itself upon the Terran Federation?

Thankfully in the UK police have to be part of a special team to carry more than a stick and pepper spray...

Incorrect. Cops in the UK regularly carry firearms without being part of any special team.

Yes, to be honest I was going to mention the Agonizers of the Mirror Universe, but I thought it was a touch too obscure a reference.

...so, you concede that the US is currently basing itself upon the Terran Federation?

Indeed.

Incorrect. Cops in the UK regularly carry firearms without being part of any special team.

They are generally part of a TAU. I've never seen an armed beat cop and I live in Manchester.

They are generally part of a TAU. I've never seen an armed beat cop and I live in Manchester.

Is Northern Ireland not still part of the UK, or did I blink and miss the creation of a 32 state Irish Republic?

Is Northern Ireland not still part of the UK, or did I blink and miss the creation of a 32 state Irish Republic?

All police are armed in Northern Ireland?

All police are armed in Northern Ireland?

Pretty much.

They are generally part of a TAU. I've never seen an armed beat cop and I live in Manchester.

The police I saw in London who actually had a car had MP-5 submachineguns in the boot of the car.

Saw only a few on foot who had a pistol, and nearly all appeared unarmed.

>>Other than minor skin tenderness caused by repeated exposure to the beam, there are no lasting effects. <<

Isn't this what they said about Agent Orange?

Mara

They are generally part of a TAU. I've never seen an armed beat cop and I live in Manchester.

That's weird. I've been to places where the bouncers in front of the bars and clubs carried pistols.

They are generally part of a TAU. I've never seen an armed beat cop and I live in Manchester.

Whats this about beat cops carrying them, you did see the part about them being so big they are mounted on Hummers, right?

The main thing that worries me about this are the possibilities of its use for an interrogation tool.

The police I saw in London who actually had a car had MP-5 submachineguns in the boot of the car.

Saw only a few on foot who had a pistol, and nearly all appeared unarmed.

And every one of those would have been in a special armed police unit and have recieved a long special training course. Beat cops in the UK just don't carry arms, but I concede to the superior knowledge of Bodies Without Organs regarding N.I., the rule there are totally different to the rest of the UK due to the fact it has been a war zone for most of the last century.

That's weird. I've been to places where the bouncers in front of the bars and clubs carried pistols.

Every one of those bouncers was breaking the law then. Hand guns are illegal throughout the UK.

Beat cops in the UK just don't carry arms, but I concede to the superior knowledge of Bodies Without Organs regarding N.I., the rule there are totally different to the rest of the UK due to the fact it has been a war zone for most of the last century.

So when you say 'beat cops in the UK' you actually mean 'beat cops in GB', yes?

Every one of those bouncers was breaking the law then. Hand guns are illegal throughout the UK.

I think he's talking about New Jersey.

And every one of those would have been in a special armed police unit and have recieved a long special training course. Beat cops in the UK just don't carry arms, but I concede to the superior knowledge of Bodies Without Organs regarding N.I., the rule there are totally different to the rest of the UK due to the fact it has been a war zone for most of the last century.

Seconded. The police, at least on the Island of GB, are not regularly armed with guns. There is some debate about whether or not they should be given those Taser thingy's, but generally the Police, and public opinion, are very strongly against normal Bobbies getting firearms.

So when you say 'beat cops in the UK' you actually mean 'beat cops in GB', yes?

I guess so.

(yeah I couldn’t give a rats arse about U.S marines in encounters there usually dicks)


fuck you

fuck you

Now play nice.

Now play nice.

Considering that the other poster started by flaming the Marines, I'm not sure it's required for the aggrieved poster to play nice.

Considering that the other poster started by flaming the Marines, I'm not sure it's required for the aggrieved poster to play nice.

'I think most of a certain group are dicks'-General statement

vs.

'Fuck you'-Targeted statement.

I think USMC needs to tone it down a little, there is no need for personal attacks.

Every one of those bouncers was breaking the law then. Hand guns are illegal throughout the UK.

No, that was in Memphis Tennessee. Sorry I didn't clarify.

No, that was in Memphis Tennessee. Sorry I didn't clarify.

Cool.

This is awesome, I can't wait to see tried out. Hopefully a few people will burn.

I'd be less cautious about this if the U.S. military wasn't also designing a microwave weapon that killed people.