NationStates Jolt Archive

Apparently there are lots of historically innacuracies in the koran... could anyone tell me at least five of them?

No, I'm not a muslim.

No, I don't hate muslims.

Isn't that what the internet is for?

Apparently there are lots of historically innacuracies in the koran... could anyone tell me at least five of them?

No, I'm not a muslim.

No, I don't hate muslims.The Koran also includes Genesis. If that is taken literally, it is inaccurate.

Allah is the one true God....(theres one)
and Muhammed is his prophet...(theres two)...

:)

there are inaccuracies in translations. For example the part about woman covering herself up is being always discussed as a wrong and perhaps intentional translation. If you take the entire part described there together as one piece and see to meaning like that it simply says cover your genitals and know how to wear something to clearly show that you are not a prostitute because the society you live in have lots of stupid man that will constantly bug you. And dont hit your heels hard (so your boobs won't make hypnotising movements) for gods sake!
Thats the sensible translation I like but Mollah's and traditionalist insist otherwise. And of course there is another problem strenghtening the belief to cover up, desert climate etc. Cultures living in harsh climates have a dress code embedded to them in hundreds of years (thousands but lets include immigrants) Even russian women wore scarf at time to protect from cold and in times of war to be protected from dust, fleas etc. there are even propaganda posters in the Soviet era advising peope to cover their heads.
But of course today none of it is necessary.

Allah is the one true God....(theres one)
and Muhammed is his prophet...(theres two)...

:)

I like the cut of your jib. You're hired.

Allah is the one true God....(theres one)
and Muhammed is his prophet...(theres two)...

:)

Theres no mention of me. Theres three.

Allah is the one true God....(theres one)
and Muhammed is his prophet...(theres two)...

:)
Which part of this is inaccuracy? it doesn't have the part says (theres two) at all and thats practical heresy.

What is the point of this thread?

Why have you asked people to point out (perceived) inaccuracies in someones holy book? Are you going to do a similar thread with the bible, torah etc?

What is the point of this thread?

Why have you asked people to point out (perceived) inaccuracies in someones holy book? Are you going to do a similar thread with the bible, torah etc?

yep they do look at back pages and there are soo many of them. But diving into deep subjects without any information is dangerous on adventurers part. It may lead to false understanding that will remain so without true data feed.

Allah is the one true God....(theres one)
.....
:)

Many christians would not agree the first is incorrect...

God is the one true god

Seems acceptible both to Christianity and Judaism to me ;)

Seems acceptible both to Christianity and Judaism to me ;)
Well, it's the same god, really. Some interpretation issues remain, but on the whole I think all three are dealing with the same famine-wielding maniac. :p

Well, it's the same god, really. Some interpretation issues remain, but on the whole I think all three are dealing with the same famine-wielding maniac. :p

They are...
لا إله إلا الله
lâ 'ilâha 'illâ llâh
translation:
"there is no god other than God"

All refering to the same plague-wielding God:p

What is the point of this thread?

Why have you asked people to point out (perceived) inaccuracies in someones holy book? Are you going to do a similar thread with the bible, torah etc?

New here?

Its inaccurate in that it presumes in the supernatural. Not much point in quibbling over the small points after that. More historical evidence for Mohammed as a person than JC though, so its one up on the Bibble there. Otherwise its same shit, different prophet.

Its inaccurate in that it presumes in the supernatural. Not much point in quibbling over the small points after that. More historical evidence for Mohammed as a person than JC though, so its one up on the Bibble there. Otherwise its same shit, different prophet.

Note that I didn't start this thread. LOL.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm
you can look up the Bible, and the book of mormon there too.

Its inaccurate in that it presumes in the supernatural. Not much point in quibbling over the small points after that. More historical evidence for Mohammed as a person than JC though, so its one up on the Bibble there. Otherwise its same shit, different prophet.

True, there are also far less things in the holy Q'uran that can be proved inaccurate than in the bible. It makes sense since the people who wrote the bible and torah didn't get it right. This is why Allah had to use Mohammed(pbuh) to tell the true word of Allah. This is why Muslims are the true believers of Allah and the Christians and Jews are just misguided people of the book. Its a shame they will not go to paradise.

True, there are also far less things in the holy Q'uran that can be proved inaccurate than in the bible. It makes sense since the people who wrote the bible and torah didn't get it right. This is why Allah had to use Mohammed(pbuh) to tell the true word of Allah. This is why Muslims are the true believers of Allah and the Christians and Jews are just misguided people of the book. Its a shame they will not go to paradise.

Doesn't matter. Its all bollocks.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm
you can look up the Bible, and the book of mormon there too.

They use a very bad translation and interpretation of the Qur'an you should not value their opinion for it is based on ignorance.

They use a very bad translation and interpretation of the Qur'an you should not value their opinion for it is based on ignorance.

yeah, I know I read the Bible part. It's pretty "if A=B then B is mean because A is stupid"

yeah, it doesn't make any sense.

True, there are also far less things in the holy Q'uran that can be proved inaccurate than in the bible. It makes sense since the people who wrote the bible and torah didn't get it right. This is why Allah had to use Mohammed(pbuh) to tell the true word of Allah. This is why Muslims are the true believers of Allah and the Christians and Jews are just misguided people of the book. Its a shame they will not go to paradise.
The main difference between the bible and the Qur'an is that the first is a collection of books acknowledged to be written by men. The second is considered to be the direct words of God.

Comparing the religions the Qur'ân is more important than the bible; the Qur'ân in Islam has a role similar to Jesus in Christianity, being the direct link between God and the humanity.

------
Ps Soviestan, I wonder...
Why do you write in English but still use the Arabic word for God?
;)

Its an inaccuricy on arabs part to take pride that they recieved Kuran and as well as christians and jews too(for their books). Kuran clearly states that they recieved prophets and holy books etc. because they suck. They are in the most degenerate condition of humanity and if don't pick themselves up they will be destroyed quickly and efficiently by God :D
And about Sodom& Gomore, a nice detail to think about. Those two cities were homo we know that but do we know what was the last drop: God sends down and angel and they try to rape it! BOOM! Gone, you are not fucking my henchman!
Another good story; two archangels ask god for permission to help mankind by teaching them magic. God allows them and of course adds the rule that they don't use to effect free will and harm each other. Angels come and teach how to create magical miracles that will carry civilisation further etc. but the instant angels leave they start using magic to charm each others wifes! THen bam! Magic is banned you can't use it anymore thats it! OR you will go to hell.
I find religion to be quite fun, it has humanities past in it, lots of stories and basicly human nature itself in those stories. Like cheating, lots of cheap tricks and abuisng any power they have :p

Doesn't matter. Its all bollocks.

That's one thing you and I can actually agree upon. You and I in agreement. Kind of scary.

True, there are also far less things in the holy Q'uran that can be proved inaccurate than in the bible. It makes sense since the people who wrote the bible and torah didn't get it right. This is why Allah had to use Mohammed(pbuh) to tell the true word of Allah. This is why Muslims are the true believers of Allah and the Christians and Jews are just misguided people of the book. Its a shame they will not go to paradise.

lol.

Let's all forget the fact that there are atleast two different textual versions of Qur'an around (dispelling the myth that Qur'an is a miraculously preserved word of God as it was said, unlike the Bible).

And let's also forget the fact that the Caliph Uthman destroyed all copies of many other versions ("Ahruf") and picked the one that is in currently in use. And the fact that by the time he did this, many of the original companions of Muhammed had died and he authorised the remaining to fill the gaps with what they feel should be right.

In short it was Council of Nicea all over again.

lol.

Let's all forget the fact that there are atleast two different textual versions of Qur'an around (dispelling the myth that Qur'an is a miraculously preserved word of God as it was said, unlike the Bible).

And let's also forget the fact that the Caliph Uthman destroyed all copies of many other versions ("Ahruf") and picked the one that is in currently in use. And the fact that by the time he did this, many of the original companions of Muhammed had died and he authorised the remaining to fill the gaps with what they feel should be right.

In short it was Council of Nicea all over again.

You state as fact things that can not be proven for we know too little of the beginning of Islam, and scholars are still debating and researching this…

What is known that the Qur‘ân was initially transmitted orally and only after the death of Muhammad* written down to prevent the corruption of the text. A century later the text was redirected to its current form.

(*God bless him and grant him peace)

lol.

Let's all forget the fact that there are atleast two different textual versions of Qur'an around (dispelling the myth that Qur'an is a miraculously preserved word of God as it was said, unlike the Bible).

And let's also forget the fact that the Caliph Uthman destroyed all copies of many other versions ("Ahruf") and picked the one that is in currently in use. And the fact that by the time he did this, many of the original companions of Muhammed had died and he authorised the remaining to fill the gaps with what they feel should be right.

In short it was Council of Nicea all over again.

Nope we have originals protected as holy artifacts in Turkiye and one of them has Osman's blood on it too. Muhammed had a farewell speech before his death and declared Kuran complete. The thing you are talking about but clearly don't know is destruction of a wave of false prophets appearing after Muhammed's death.

What is the point of this thread?

Why have you asked people to point out (perceived) inaccuracies in someones holy book? Are you going to do a similar thread with the bible, torah etc?

point of thread: I've read on the internet quite a few times that there are supposed historical innacuracies, but all I've found so far is "the koran says this when the Bible says this, so the koran must be wrong" kinda stuff... so I wanna find out what the supposed innacuracies are, based on actual history.

Its inaccurate in that it presumes in the supernatural. Not much point in quibbling over the small points after that. More historical evidence for Mohammed as a person than JC though, so its one up on the Bibble there. Otherwise its same shit, different prophet.

Bible doesn't try to prove Jesus is a person. It shows Him to be God.

True, there are also far less things in the holy Q'uran that can be proved inaccurate than in the bible. It makes sense since the people who wrote the bible and torah didn't get it right. This is why Allah had to use Mohammed(pbuh) to tell the true word of Allah. This is why Muslims are the true believers of Allah and the Christians and Jews are just misguided people of the book. Its a shame they will not go to paradise.

Oh it's so difficult to guess you're biased (and probably muslim)...

spot the sarcasm

Before you start criticising other religions (Christianity, judaism, sikhism, or any other religion), perhaps you should actually take a proper look at them. And at this http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/science/long.html

Allah is the one true God....(theres one)
and Muhammed is his prophet...(theres two)...

:)

So when they say that Jesus was the one and only true son of God they are wrong as well? Or is it just that you subscribe to that tribalistic midset? I'm just asking because you either condemn all religions or accept them all. As aCatholic I know where I stand and it's not about my "faith." Y'all jackasses can argue over who hasthe best imaginary friend, but I'm not biting. Futher, a little logical reasoning here. Bush sent people to countries where torture was legal because.... he didn't like Miami? So if he sent them to these places and then says, "we don't condone torture" do you really take him seriously? Is this not an egregious lie? Be real here and not an apologist for the primary puppet. Last thing before I punch out, "No connection, no knowledge, no blind eye, no motherFing connection between Saddam and Al Quaeda!" -Senate intelligence committee. Then that smug bastard gives another speech saying they were linked and how dangerous Saddam was on the anniversar:upyours: y of of two buddies' murders. HAVE YOU NO SHAME?

Here are five innacuracies in the Koran:

1. There is a God.
2. Mohammed was a prophet. There is no such thing so he couldn't be one.
3. The Earth is only a few thousand years old.
4. God created the Earth and all the animals.
5. There was an Adam and Eve.

Here are five innacuracies in the Koran:

1. There is a God.
2. Mohammed was a prophet. There is no such thing so he couldn't be one.
3. The Earth is only a few thousand years old.
4. God created the Earth and all the animals.
5. There was an Adam and Eve.

but.......my husband's great grandfather was named Adam and there was that chick named Eve on the Brady bunch........so there were/are Adam and Eve, so the rest of that must be true?

but.......my husband's great grandfather was named Adam and there was that chick named Eve on the Brady bunch........so there were/are Adam and Eve, so the rest of that must be true?

Okay, I guess you got me there. :(

Skeptics annotated Quran!

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/abs/long.html

You state as fact things that can not be proven for we know too little of the beginning of Islam, and scholars are still debating and researching this…

What is known that the Qur‘ân was initially transmitted orally and only after the death of Muhammad* written down to prevent the corruption of the text. A century later the text was redirected to its current form.

(*God bless him and grant him peace)

BS. What I said as facts are indeed facts. I can prove they are.

Take the two different copies of the Qur’an, one identified as according to the reading of Imam Hafs, and another one identified as according the reading of Imam Warsh. They are both available and in print.

You will find the following.

The following differences between two of the seven different versions of the Qur’an are all from the same word in the same ayaa. However since the two Qur’ans do not even number ayaat the same way, there are differences in the reference numbering between them. For example, Surah 2:132 in the Hafs Qur'an is the same verse as Surah 2:131 in the Warsh Qur'an.

Basic letter differences: The following examples show that there are differences between the basic letters of these two Qur'ans:

IMAM HAFS - IMAM WARSH
Surah 2:132 (wawassaa) - Surah 2:131 (wa'awsaa)
Surah 91:15 (wa laa yakhaafu) - Surah 91:15 (fa laa yakhaafu)
Surah 2:132 (himu) - Surah 2:131 (hiimu)
Surah 3:133 (wasaari'uu) - Surah 3:133 (saari'uu)
Surah 5:54 (yartadda) - Surah 5:56 (yartadid)

Diacritical differences: The following examples show that there are many diacritical differences between these two Qur'ans. The oral traditions are not the same.

IMAM HAFS - IMAM WARSH
Surah 2:140 (taquluna) - Surah 2:139 (yaquluna)
Surah 3:81 (ataytukum) - Surah 3:80 (ataynakum)
Surah 2:259 (nunshizuhaa) - Surah 2:258 (nunshiruhaa)

Vowel Differences: The following examples show that there are differences between the vowels of these two Qur'ans:

IMAM HAFS - IMAM WARSH
Surah 2:214 (yaquula) - Surah 2:212 (yaquulu)
Surah 2:10 (yakdhibuuna) - Surah 2:9 (yukadhdhibuuna)
Surah 2:184 (ta'aamu miskiinin) - Surah 2:183 (ta'aami masakiina)
Surah 28:48 (sihraani) - Surah 28:48 (saahiraani)


There are differences from the early period of Uthman's rescension itself. If you take the Samarkand Qur'an into account there are even more errors. Among the oldest Qur’ans in existence is the Samarkand Qur’an held in Tashkent, Uzbekistan. Many Muslims insist it is one of the original copies sent out by caliph ‘Uthman after the rescension and it is actually available for study, since a photocopy of the manuscript is available in the Columbia University Library.

Let’s take a look at just one ayaa, Surah As-Saaffat 103.

The standard translations for the verse are:

037.103
YUSUFALI: So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
PICKTHAL: Then, when they had both surrendered (to Allah), and he had flung him down upon his face,
SHAKIR: So when they both submitted and he threw him down upon his forehead,

And these are correct translations of the standard modern Arabic Qur’an:

Falamma aslama watallahu liljabeeni

But the Samarkand Qur’an (along with many other variations from the modern standard text) reads “wa ma aslama...” instead of “falamma aslama…”

Instead of “when they had submitted,” the Samarkand Qur’an means “when they did not submit.” In other words, the Samarkand Qur'an says the direct opposite of what modern Qur’ans say.

The myth that "the Qur'an that we have now is the uncorrupted word of God as it was revealed to Muhammed" is just that, a myth.

First we have to take into account that Muhammed did indeed have revealations. That we have to take as truth purely based on faith and not on reasoning.

Then we have to take into account that he did convey to his companions exactly what was said to him. Since many of those companions died by the time Uthman decided to make one final version, we do not know if what we have now is indeed what Muhammed conveyed in his lifetime.

As-Suyuti (d. 1505), a famous commentator, quotes Ibn 'Umar al Khattab as stating: "Let no one of you say that he has acquired the entire Quran, for how does he know that it is all? Much of the Quran has been lost, thus let him say, 'I have acquired of it what is available'" (As-Suyuti, Itqan, part 3, page 72).

I have no issues in you believing in the Qur'an that you have now. Just don't insist that it is the uncorrupted word of God as it was revealed to Muhammed, because clearly it is not.

Peace be upon us.;)

Found stuff:

koran inaccuracies

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/science/long.html

The koran confirms that Jesus is the Messiah:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/angels.html

koran lie (Sura 9:30) (see side note):
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/9/index.htm#29

Contradictions:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/man.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html

A statement that the koran is not from Allah (number 9 on page, NOT Sura 9) (plus absurdities):
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/abs/long.html

Again, I reiterate, I have no issues with Islam/muslims per se. I do think that a muslim can indeed find salvation through Islam (just like how I believe Christians/Buddhists/animists/even atheists etc can do that...)...since I believe that it is what you do and not what you believe, that matters most.

But I do have issues when muslims make absurd claims on Qur'an (that it is miraculously preserved in an uncorrupted form as it was revealed to Muhammed...IT IS A MIRACLE...MIRACLE !!@!@!). Seriously I have seen so many muslims go absolutely gaga over this despite strong evidence to the contrary....Uthman's burning of original copies and compiling his own with him ordering the compilers to fill in the gaps as best as they can, textual differences between the different Qur'ans we have, the reliability factor of the companions memory, and the HUGE leap of faith that we have to take believing that the incoherent Qur'an is indeed the word of God...I mean..the Qur'an does have some very beautiful verses and undoubtedly has great wisdom and truth within it...but it also has utter BS and incoherent blabbering within it too.

If only everybody knew how to take just the good and ignore the bad and not be absolutist/literalist over it (or for that matter any "divine" scripture")...:(

the Qur'an does have some very beautiful verses and undoubtedly has great wisdom and truth within it...but it also has utter BS and incoherent blabbering within it too.

I think this desription applies to most holy books, strong moral guidance and wisdom on one page, mind-blowing stupidity on the next. ;P

Buddhist traditions teach that the moon generates its own light.(although the current Dalai Lama refuted this)

Qur'an says the sun goes under a pond at night

Bible says eve was created from adams rib...

thats why I stick with the timeless metaphorical guidance about life, instead of obsolete explanations of the natural world.

He asked for historical innaccuracies .... why are all you people going on about dialects and spirituality?

An example of a historical inaccuracy would be: George Washington was born in 1865, the son of a mountain goat and three large rocks.

"There is a God" has nothing to do with history whatsoever.

Now .... carry on.

The books are in a museum and I repeat we have original ones and their copies. The problem is there are a lot of people with their cults printing and giving people half asses translations that doesnt even make sense. Thats the corruption there is, not in the source.
You are taking Hadis books into account. Which are personal translations of Kuran into basic language. Actually most of the absurdities of these translations are because of those people who translated them. For example in an ayet thats talking about Zulkarneyn's travel, the translator cant gives a meaning about whats being spoken and writes about strange landmarks seeming surreal. Upon an Ottoman Archive clerks research today we know its actually not a black strange puddle but a black hole and Zulkarneyn was actually making space travel to a place to teach those people religion.
There are other issues as some ancient egypt occult and hindu beliefs mixing into practical islam under imams ways of life and their followers. There are sects of islam believing really strange mythic things, of course it seems strange because it is lost knowlegde and esoteric. Has deeper layers of info embedded to it but only can be understood by initiated. That being in harmony with ancient beliefs is actually against the puriten religion we want today. We want religion to make sense a person shouldnt be initiated to learn truth from Kuran because islam claims that there are no secrets in Kuran that only few can see but its for everyone to learn containing vast knowledge.
There are those who claim that Kuran incomplete so that they may add into it and make their followers copy them. Thats why there are a lot of freaks out there with political power. Like snake worshipping christian sects :D There are actually islamic sects that worship satan calling him melek tavus or fire worshipping sects. They are too few in number but they exist.

What I mean is shortly is: things are complicated. There are too many things written and spoken but most of them are just a half assed look into one degree of subject.

note: I have Kuran and checked those parts in that site you are linking and thats a lot of bullshit thats not in Kuran lol. I dont know where they found them.

Note that I didn't start this thread. LOL.

Aw, that would have been more fun!:p

note: I have Kuran and checked those parts in that site you are linking and thats a lot of bullshit thats not in Kuran lol. I dont know where they found them.

Theres so much bullshit swirling around islam that its impossible to get a neutral view of it......Maybe it is a religion of peace and unicorns and sugar-plums and all that. Or maybe its a moon-worshippin', pedophilia practicin', baby eatin', gutter-cult. The only thing thats convinced me its the former are the jackasses that believe the latter.

I honestly don't know and don't much care anymore....

Lets start with the big ones:

"there is no god but god, muhammad is his prophet" :rolleyes:

Let's be realistic, it's like the bible, it is premised on falsehood and largely fiction.